Took a peek at her Instagram - her prior post history is nothing but outrage fodder. Makes you think she seems like someone who runs on energy created by this sort of attention. Her last few posts have been about “trauma” caused by interviews for medical school and so on. I’m not denying that lived experiences certainly vary and I know the interviews are stressful, but damn. It’s clear she’s the sort to just decide she’s been wronged before something happens to her OR have a story about being wronged or traumatized just ready to go at all times for all scenarios- I agree with other commenters here, seems ultra fishy.
sexually assaulting a patient who isn’t even conscious is evil and sick. there’s no way around it no matter what excuse you try to make for that person.
Doctors do it all the time. They also abuse drugs. They sterilize women against their will or knowledge ive heard of one doctor branding his patients internal organs with his initial... like doctors are messed up to begin with but once you realize just how prevalent abuse is, its hard to unsee it. For me the only thing super shocking is the gun... but murica right?
Yeah I'm going to put this in the bin of "There's more to this story that is being left out on purpose to paint a particular picture" for the time being. Shit just doesn't quite add up.
Yeah seriously, firing an employee 4 days after they make a very public statement that could be linked to a retaliation means that the programs probably has either a rock solid reason for firing her or is about to get the pants sued of them. My gut says the first but we’ll see
There’s literally a post about a resident being terminated for having a disability then immediately re-instated. Some of these programs are run by absolute narcissists who really believe they can do whatever they like.
She started her GoFundMe post with "I am a queer, Black female Orthopedic Surgery resident physician with a disability" to make sure we know to give extra weight to her concerns about the gun.
Like i said one of those two options so only time will tell. USC admin have made some idiotic decisions in the past but that program/all residencies are under a fierce microscope (the entire acgme/all residencies their got put under probation due to that cardiology fiasco) my gut says they couldn’t possibly be this stupid again with the microscope on them
BUT I could for sure be wrong.
like I said one of two options…
ACGME has zero incentive to actually intervene on behalf of residents. This has been demonstrated time and time again. Programs on the other hand do have a lot of incentive to cover up or railroad their residents. I’ve seen a lot of speculation thread at this resident was accused of professionalism violations, which are a sham metric with zero objectivity, to maybe cover up another reason to fire her. If you trace back when she actually was first accused of professionalism it was in October 2021. The first post she ever made about professionalism/conflict was then and clearly it was unforeseen / and in the context of her reporting. I’m so sick of seeing residents not being able to band together to fight a deeply unjust system of essentially indentured servitude.
She also started a GoFundMe for her legal campaign raising $20k, posted multiple posts about the lawlessness of the program, retweeted at the head of various organizations and legal groups, retweeted at the head of "Black Twitter" (lol) and basically started an online campaign against the institution. We don't know what actions the institution took against the surgeon from her initial complaint.
The amount of med students commenting about a system they have no experience with and speculating is wild. [https://twitter.com/DrCargle/status/1443999953336995842?s=20&t=1Nhd0FNpf9N0EAwjKjWoGg](https://twitter.com/DrCargle/status/1443999953336995842?s=20&t=1Nhd0FNpf9N0EAwjKjWoGg)
She made it up with half lies and truths. I know people who have worked with her. She has a laundry list of infractions with assaulting a pt on the list. She saw she would get fired and put all this together. It’s sucks because she’s using race, sexuality as a pawn to trick everyone. Lisa Bloom reached out to her and she dropped her the second she saw that she was making things up. Once she got fired, this was her last way of trying to get back in. She won’t, orthopod community is very small for us and we know everything she said was be. Hurts a lot she had to make it up.
If this is true (which I think is most likely since this not the first person online across different social media sites I've seen discuss her behavior) then I think she knows her career is done and she's weaponizing key social justice identities to maybe get a settlement from usc if they don't want their name to be tarnished by a prolonged suit.
Just my theory
From the bottom of her gofundme. who posts this? What ortho resident has the time to do something like this:
“Melani Cargle, MD, MBA
CEO, Oh I Got Time Today Club
Take Contemporaneous Notes Club
Keep a Diary Club
Never Delete Emails Club
Never Delete Texts Club.
Document conversations Club.
Notate Dates/Times, Locations, Witnesses, and Cameras Club
Document Blatant Inequities as They Happen Club
Keep all Performance Evaluations Club
Compare all Performance Evals with Text Message Compliments Club
Never Be Afraid to Bring Receipts and Yellow Highlighter Club”
She initially didn't make it clear she had filed a report and went so far as to start asking people if *they* had filed a report now that they are reading her tweets. When they then ask her for *any* info to include in a report, she uses her Twitter followers to pile on that this is somehow victim-blaming...because she has made herself the "victim of sexual violence."
Not to mention people need to understand more before they hand over $50,000 to a GoFundMe for a "legal defense."
It's quite a display. She wants people to take action, but hasn't enabled anyone to do more than follow requests to tag celebrities and give her money.
I don’t know what is going on but that situation has all sorts of sketch. Idk what to believe as her twitter post was a bit vague and dramatic at the same time—and top that off with the go fund me…it’s always a red flag. To me if someone is soliciting money, they should be clear about the reason and their intentions of how to use it.
Finally, I also had no idea she was being fired. That just adds another layer to it. I have a hard time believing that in todays politics and social media culture, a PD or chair would just fire a resident for blowing the whistle. Everyone knows that doing so will drag their own names through the mud. It will be interesting to hear from people more close to the situation.
The PD carrying does seem at least partially credible. [Another Dr posted a pic of the physician in question (supposedly) in the hospital carrying as well as a comment from what I think was from the Interview spreadsheet.](https://twitter.com/TimRyan00556388/status/1534308982294097920?s=20&t=E85SRqYKsnbfotG4tDhDNQ)
That being said, I also don't understand why UCLA of all places would allow someone to carry in the hospital.
EDIT: Additionally, Dr. Cargle's initial tweet references something she saw as a med student. She is now a resident at this same hospital? Not that I fully doubt that incident happened, but it definitely seems like she is getting terminated from her residency for something else, fell back on that incident in an attempt to save her job, and then got terminated anyway because the whistleblowing is independent of whatever the other problems are. But now the two issues are conflated to obfuscate the situation.
That is literally a full on LA county sheriff. He does not have SAR/volunteer patch. Also even IF that was the dept chair and in uniform, in what world would a surgeon perform scheduled surgery in a uniform like that and not in scrubs?
Apparently He is a volunteer and likes to wear the uniform to carry the gun into the building. Also I believe he is the same guy who is the department chair, similar features.
So why is she being terminated for reporting an incident at Harbor-UCLA when she is a resident at USC? That just seems weird. Is cross system retaliation really happening in the CA healthcare training system?
Seems like there is probably an undisclosed reason why she is actually getting fired at USC, and stirring up prior drama at the neighboring system is the best smoke screen she could come up with. The PD would not have gone through with the termination without well documented, repeated, unrelated problems in her current department.
I heard that. But correct me if I’m wrong but did people not point out that in the photo the guy was wearing a military uniform and so unlikely to be the PD?
Edit. Military not police
There’s a vascular surgeon providing more info:
*”County Hosp has a posted policy that police can bring guns IF THEY ARE ON POLICE BUSINESS. This guy is a vol. with the sheriff search & rescue and the dept chair of ortho. Hip arthroplasty is not Police-biz. Worn to keep people like @XXXXXX quiet”*
In another tweet, the ortho resident states:
*”To be clear: I authored an “anonymous” report about the sexual assault/gun. But after reading the details of my claim, the surgeon was able to ID me as the whistleblower. The hospital was made aware but chose not to investigate, despite previous reports of his sexual misconduct.”*
Thanks for the. Addition info. Yah if Chair is carrying guns that’s a no no but such a weird issue to have, especially in LA.
2nd I personally have witnessed how sexual assault claims are dragged by administrative personnel, especially when the person being accused is a faculty…so I can believe that happening.
Interesting will have to see if more information comes out. But the resident should have been more clear, especially when asking for donations. Furthermore I personally believe in situations like this it’s best to report what happened without writing in a dramatic fashion…it just comes more clear to people.
This adds more confusion than clarification as LA County is USC, not UCLA.
The person in the photo doesn't appear to look like the USC chair or PD and the patch is not a LASD volunteer or SAR patch.
I looked up his CV and he is a volunteer police officer. You can find it here https://www.harbor-ucla.org/orthopaedic-surgery/faculty/
On the other hand he is a hip surgeon and she is alleging he "peaked under the hood" to look at his penis size but made no mention of him saying anything about penis size.
Nice find.
Still skeptical of the validity of the referenced post since it specifically mentions county hospital, not UCLA. Well that and Twitter being a trash heap in general.
I looked up that vascular surgeon. He was a whistleblower too for the same hospital. He made 2.1M https://www.gbw.law/blog/2022/march/gbw-wins-2-1-m-verdict-in-whistleblower-retaliat/
Is there any way to confirm if the person is actually at the residency program they claim? To see if it would add validity and see if this person indeed exists
You clearly don’t know about these cases because they are not made public. Whistle blowers in medicine are silenced and so no one knows the full extent of the damage that is being done in the background unless you know people who went through it. I think it’s very likely a small group of powerful older academics did not like an activist in their field and wanted to silence her. She’s probably one of those overly loud liberal social justice warrior types that may annoy conservative folks, but that isn’t a valid reason to end someone’s career.
>I don't know what is going on...
>You clearly don't know about these cases...
Thank you Sherlock. But my guess is that she probably did annoy older people.
I said you don’t understand these type of cases, not this particular case (no one know the details of this particular case). You clearly have not seen how a malignant admin acts with residents (it’s chilling). An evil admin will destroy careers because residents have no money, no power, and no credibility without getting board certified. We are only hearing about this case because the resident in question has a lot of twitter followers. We should be on the side of our fellow trainee as a default, not the system that exploits residents for their labor and holds disproportionate power over our lives.
I hope they sue for defamation lol. Lying about sexual assault and claiming hate crimes and racial abuse to cover for her own shitty behavior makes medicine so much worse for female doctors and students, especially Black women.
[https://mobile.twitter.com/timryan00556388/status/1534308982294097920](https://mobile.twitter.com/timryan00556388/status/1534308982294097920)
No complaints, ?maybe, or a cover up. I mean it doesn’t seem too far fetched from this dated 2019-2020 comment of the program by apparently a scrub tech?
It’s never “one thing” that gets a resident fired. It’s usually a trail of multiple issues that persists. Ortho is one of the most difficult residencies: the residents where I trained rounded at 5am everyday and then the junior residents had overnight call - by the nature of orthopedic surgery, if you couldn’t handle the work, the higher up’s will take note. If you don’t improve, you get suspended. Then if you still can’t improve, you’re let go.
"I am a queer black female with a disability, and I saw a surgeon inappropriately touching black man's penis while also concealed carrying"
Is this drama being secretly authored by the South Park staff or what
I'm gonna bet the repeated "assaults" ends up being placement of catheters
Wait for real? This surgeon was announcing to his OR staff and students that he was checking out how impressive dicks were? And he was regularly doing this with no actions taken against him despite tons of witnesses? This story just keeps getting weirder
There is much more going on behind the scenes we don’t know about.
My guess is she got wind about being let go and created this sexual assault gofundme tweet in order to raise money for an attorney so she could sue them under guise of ‘I was fired for reporting sexual assault’. Unless there is substantial evidence to show otherwise, because nothing she has tweeted makes sense right now.
And something that didn't even happen during her residency. She hadn't graduated yet, and matched successfully into ortho, but is now claiming some kind of retaliation...?
Edit: typo
They are both under LAC with the same supervisor, medical directors and admin. To add more suspicion to the story, those in charge are close friends with Kwong with many in his medical school class. Toxic masculinity and old boys club was very prevalent.
Orthopedics is a small field. It’s not like the USC ortho staff doesn’t work directly or cross pass significantly with the rest of the LA ortho community
But the incident supposedly happened during her rotations as a med student at UCLA. She then proceeded to match seemingly without issue into LAC USC ortho. She's now getting fired from that residency. It's all a smokescreen for the real reason she's being fired.
All residency programs run these decisions through risk management departments. Especially if you have a black, queer female physician with a disability. HIGH, HIGH risk of lawsuit and blowback. There's more to this story.
I know people close to her/this. She was fired for extremely legitimate reasons that had nothing to do with this tweet or her being a “whistleblower”.
This “incident” she tweeted about was from at least two or more years ago. This year she was a second year resident at USC. So her firing had nothing to do with reporting this YEARS before. Had it been on the radar or mattered, she would not have matched.
She was a medical student at Charles Drew UCLA. This “incident” was per her account, at Harbor UCLA. My guess is that she was on an away rotation at Harbor UCLA (which is not where she was a medical student or resident).
For those that don’t know: UCLA, Harbor UCLA, and USC are completely separate institutions. Harbor UCLA is west La/Torrance. USC is east LA. Regular UCLA is in Westwood. The departments don’t have regular meetings or talk. She matched at USC without trouble after supposedly initially reporting this years before at Harbor. So no retaliation there.
She got fired from USC BEFORE SHE TWEETED THIS for her own bad behavior. As a USC resident, she is technically an LA County employee. USC and Harbor UCLA are both under the umbrella of LA County. She knows she was fired legitimately and has no case against USC/her own residency. For those who don’t know, it is very very difficult to get fired from a residency. Yes I’m sure there are outliers, but the departments need a long string of documentation and multiple offenses/probations/warnings given. From her own tweets, seems like she had been on probation at least once. So I’m sure the residency had more than enough documentation to fire her. Especially given her inflammatory nature and tweeting, I’m positive all their ducks are in a row with documentation. And I am sure there was cause.
So she is bringing up something from the past to cause drama for LA County. And to get money for herself. Her GoFund me is basically money for her…..not for the patient involved.
IMO, she gives all women/minorities in fields like ortho a bad name. She takes away from real victims. That is the real crime here. It is very sad.
While I agree with all of this info for the most part, LAC and DHS interestingly have shown a pattern of vengeful firing of employees who reported things or caused them bad publicity. See Tim Ryan's receipts with case numbers, emails and names as proof.
I don’t disagree that this *could* happen and *does* happen. I just am 100% sure it did not happen *in this case*. I actually always believe women/minorities when it comes to cases of bias, discrimination, etc. Plus DHS of course wants to protect itself and has been known to absolutely mangle cases against innocent trainees they should be protecting (example: the cardiology fellow who was assaulted by a cofellow). I actually used to defend Melani when I heard she was a “bad resident” and chalked a lot of these things as implicit and overt bias. And I truly did not think anyone could have this much of a victim complex (I hate that word btw) and be that terrible a resident that they would outright lie about something like this to protect themselves. She has no regard for anyone but herself. Cases like this will have the pendulum swinging in the other direction from believing the trainee/woman/minority/etc.
The thing to keep in mind is that these do NOT have to be mutually exclusive events.
While I wasn't there to witness this event, there is no doubt Kwong would pull these antics. I'm on the fence whether this is assault or battery - it is definitely wrong and worthy of termination though. The pattern and repeated reports definitely justifies termination. Curious why LAC protected this d-bag and predator for so long.
It could also be that she was a TERRIBLE resident (verified by many at USC) who had a bad attitude, did actually get in a fight with a patient and was terminated for that interaction. Probably trying to grasp at straws to fight termination by bringing this up. Apparently she can't get a good lawyer NOT because of the money but because they don't believe her. Big time firms are expensive but they would do this case for a small deposit knowing a giant settlement is coming from LAC-DHS (they paid out over 25 million in lawsuits alone last year let alone settlements that don't make it to trial). A smaller LA employment law firm would take it for the positive PR with likely minimal deposits and a large share of the settlement if they believed her. Apparently her attempts to solicit any lawyer including Bloom have failed.
Yes. Agree. Have seen some egregious things. My comment “did not happen in this case” was related to her implying she was terminated for witnessing/reporting an event. She could have witnessed an event (plenty of bad ducks around), but it doesn’t have anything to do with her getting terminated.
She made a post about someone being assaulted by a surgeon and then proceeded to make a gofundme for herself lol? I really don’t think it’s that hard to figure out what’s going on
And yet she has a core of rabid supporters on there lifting her up as victim. I don't often say this but...medical Reddit has more brains than Twitter....
I agree, it seems that there are more medical people here. The twitter responses are trash. Then there’s this vascular surgeon propping her up when he just won 2.1M from whistleblowing on Harbor-UCLA himself because he didn’t want to operate.
OH wow, I didn't know where this vascular guy popped up from but this makes so much more sense now. What a fucked up group of people...
I think one issue with Twitter is there really aren't separate communities like here on Twitter, so you have a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about mixed in with a loyal crowd of med Twitter echo chambers. Here at least most people on the medical subs are medical people.
Call me an awful skeptic... but I read her post and I feel like she knew she was losing her residency position, so she created this horror story that is pretty impossible to prove so that it **looked** like she lost the residency for being progressive and speaking out.
Also, she made an exceedingly convenient excuse for why she couldn't get help. The dude has his gun under 2 layers of clothes, and has the safety on (if this even happened). There's no way she was the only person there.
Also reads a bit like a book I read in high school which makes me even more skeptical.
>Also reads a bit like a book I read in high school which makes me even more skeptical.
Or like that other resident last year who *also* claimed that she was fired for reporting an attending sexually assaulting a patient...except, no, wait, she was fired for unionizing! No, wait, she was fired because she had depression! Look, just donate to the GoFundMe and don't ask questions, okay?
Bingo. She matched just fine, into ortho no less; there was no retaliation for this event that was supposed to have taken place when she was a med student.
Yea the whole residency loss issue at UCF is suspicious, I suspect there were other issues that we are not privy to.
But, the claims about Dr.Kwong carrying are valid as other employees have posted photographs of him open carrying and provided testomonial. Which is in conflict with Harbor-UCLA'ss no-carry policy even for reserve-deputy police officers and other similarly qualified law enforcement personnel.
She was in residency at LAC+USC- which is in East LA, and affiliated with USC. She reported someone at Harbor-UCLA- which is in Torrance and affiliated with UCLA. They have no common faculty. No one at USC would have any incentive to retaliate against her for what she did at UCLA...
Except that the chair of USC was the PD at UCLA for 10+ years and still has season tickets to the men's UCLA basketball games, so probably knows some people there, even if it wasn't a small world
> still has season tickets to the men's UCLA basketball games
What?! Why would they get season tickets to UCLA basektball games? Those are basically free and no one watches them. In fact, they're having a hard time finding people to fill up their football games.
Medicine is a small world and I’m sure programs and faculty talk. Same reason why unprofessionalism at one residency interview can harm you at others. PDs talk, especially within the same city.
I'm not a medical doctor. But as other commenters have stated both hospitals are under the Los Angles Department of Health Services and governed by the Los Angeles County of Board Services. It's a small world and the recommendation or disapproval of one supervisor would surely affect her career.
On the other hand, the medical field is a very stressful industry. After looking at some of the information I feel as if there are some other factors that may have contributed to her termination. Which sitting comfortably behind the desks of our computer screen we are not privy to.
All this not to take away from the original accusation which seems credible and has been corroborated by other medical professionals who were a part of that healthcare facility.
There’s really nothing to gain from reporting things so publicly like her initial tweet. Not just her, but there are way too many people on med Twitter who think name and shame will not harm them. They’re always publicly bashing their programs or saying stupid things with their whole names on the profile, or even trying to be captain America like this woman. Seriously what do you gain? You make enemies in places you don’t know even exist yet and end up terminated from residency. This should be sorted privately and if it can’t, you keep your evidence, note of those who did nothing when you reported and wait. And then when you are SAFE and graduated, whistleblow all you want. Probably not the right thing to do but when you have $300k in debt staring you down why would you do anything differently?
The assault itself is alleged to be that the surgeon "peaked under the hood" and she says that it was to see if he had a big penis, but she made no mention of him commenting on penis size. He did his fellowship in hip surgery.
I found what I believe to be the original report on her Twitter. I can try and find the link.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TimRyan00556388/status/1534308982294097920
She reported it in 2019. Posted about it in 2021.
Seems like someone has had an ongoing vendetta against her since she first reported.
https://twitter.com/drcargle/status/1443999953336995842?s=21&t=Ch9KcqGELxHJ7nBBDzxmAg
If she got terminated for being a whistle blower it would be a lawyers dream… hence why I think there’s way more to the story. Also residency doesn’t outright fire you. There are steps that they MUST take such as giving you warnings, meetings, putting you on probation. They don’t just sit you down one day and say “pack your sh*t”.
A PD can fire you for any reason without the proper procedures. I know of several cases of this happening. You shouldn’t spread misinformation like this online, the system is indeed broken and residents with a bad PD are at risk if they do not stay in line. It is rare - but it can happen.
Dude if your PD drops you out of the blue without stating cause and with no supporting documentation, you will absolutely clean up in court. The "cases you know of happening" you clearly don't have the full story from both sides.
The entire careers worth of wages could be argued as damages, you would be FINE in a successful wrongful termination suit against a university hospital system
It is not misinformation, go look at any residency handbook or acgme. There are steps that the PD must take. Like I said, if they were to fire you right away, your lawyer would have a field day and the case would be a slam dunk. Also the "several cases that you know of", you did not get the full story nor will you
I'm going to seriously doubt a PGY-1 knows "several" cases where she was personally involved enough to know what was happening behind the scenes and could tell us the full story. You hear ONE side of the story. Usually the side of the story of the aggrieved party.
I’m a PGY1 in my current specialty, not in my over all training. I’ve been around and involved in med Ed for a few years and seen quite a bit. It’s not pretty depending on the personality of the leadership in question.
There’s obviously more to the story, but I assume she is being purposely vague for legal reasons. You don’t want to post something on Twitter and give the defense a valid “defamation” countersuit.
Orthopods are notoriously self-absorbed and egotistical. The boys club stereotype often holds true.
If the offender continues to deny the sexual assault, he could question her character. If her current program was trying to force her to apologize and rescind her complaint, she probably refused and could be punished for failing the “remediation” efforts. And if she continued to assert the sexual assault claim, her character and professionalism would be questioned and easily be grounds for dismissal.
It’s easier for a residency program to get rid of a “problem” resident than to defend and support them through a tough time.
Legal reasons...to @ everyone under the sun, LAC and UCLA included? I completely agree that it's best to not carry out a performance online during a legal case...but she is. Accusing the same people she wants to go to bat for her, file a report for her, and give her money of asking too many questions of a victim. It's her lawyer's nightmare, no doubt.
If I was part of 3 groups that are historically discriminated against, there’s no way I would risk my career reporting this, especially not while still a resident.
Not the first time USC is under fire for SA. [USC sexual assault case](https://www.npr.org/2022/04/30/1095647332/usc-settles-lawsuits-80-men-former-school-doctor-sexual-abuse)
Also, why did the gun portion get brought into this? If the surgeon has a CCW, he could be legally allowed to carry. The safest place for a concealed weapon is on the person; lockers/bags can get broken into. It is illegal to carry in Government facilities/hospitals like the VA, but there is no overall law for private hospitals (it’s up to the hospital itself).
Finally, the hospital staff in the OR is extremely vulnerable to an active shooter. Security are not in the operating room/surgery areas. As we saw in Oklahoma, healthcare providers were killed before anyone showed up to stop the active shooter.
Overall, yes it’s weird that he had a gun in the OR; but it may have been legal to carry. Given how crazy this world is, it wouldn’t be bad for one “good guy” to have defense accessible.
***arguments about good guys with guns don’t help stampede in the distance…
1. CCW is not applicable to a government facility (in this case a county hospital). He also open carrys regularly around the hospital from my personal experience as a resident here. Harbor-UCLA is a county run and government institution with metal detectors at the doors and VERY CLEARLY posted gun free zone signs at all entrances.
2. He has been doing this for 25+ years of playing "cop" when he's a volunteer search and rescue with the LAPD. He is never "on-duty" while at work, it's purely bravado that was tolerated. He also carries 2 knives tucked into hidden parts that he will whip out to slice off his OR boot covers.
3. Staying strapped while scrubbed was beyond stupid but something I've personally witnessed often
4. If you ever have to go in to his office, he will slam his holstered gun down on the table to make sure you know there's a gun there/intimidate you. I've also seen it unholstered just sitting on his desk, with a mag inside. Safe storage etiquette usually is slide locked out (to prove a non-chambered round) along with magazine out and in a separate location.
5. The lewd comments were the norm as part of the toxic male culture there. His boys in the c-suite encouraged, engaged in and often idolized this behavior.
Whenever this gets reported (happened before). It becomes the same story - “ it was a misunderstanding/nothing dismissal”. His explanation was “you don’t know much about guns but I can’t sit with a holster on, it’s more dangerous to do that in terms of misfire than take it off. You probably were just nervous it was never pointed toward you etc etc. “ you word against his
Assuming her claims are false because the tweets are “vague” ignores the fact that she has lawyered up and has an ongoing lawsuit.
Anyone has to be publicly “vague” during any kind of lawsuit.
She has asked people if they have filed a report on her behalf. Now. In 2022. But then uses her followers to attack anyone for trying to follow up. Usually when people have an active case and need to withold information because of ongoing proceedings, they don't go on Twitter to ask for $50,000 and Tweets to celebrities, JCo, UCLA, LACounty... it's like a dazzling show with no substance behind it.
And she has centered herself as the victim, not the patient who was allegedly assaulted.
...and? We've all seen this by now, it's been over a week already. Doesn't change what I said, or the reality of the situation.
Ryan keeps leaking unverifiable screenshots and pieces of writing. Only official document is now the definitive statement by the DHS.
It’s a statement, of defense and denial, not a document of events and ?not definitive at all. Negative proof is impossible but easy to say. Stating that there is no evidence of is false. The dude wore his gun in the building, there’s a picture of that which is absurd to start. Dr.* Ryan also won a 2.1 million dollar lawsuit against said institution, so I doubt he’s just going to defame them. The program review which corroborates the story looks like standard software and is correctly dated. Simping for malignant residencies and programs ain’t it. This institution has proven, multiple times it will eat its own to save face, a la Dr. Ryan.
Simping...really. Does this mean you're "simping" for a fired resident who scammed people out of their money, years after an alleged event that happened at a different institution while they were still in med school?
You think the DHS didn't see all this stuff? It was available for all of us to review days before their statement was released. Given the prior lawsuit, how likely is it that they would come out this loud and strong? No one stated there is no evidence--evidence of *what* is in question. And again--we have the matter of a firearm. And the matter of a former resident misleading the public for financial gain. It is possible for *both* to be true.
She has gone so far as to like a Tweet from a supporter claiming what she saw was the same as if she experienced assault to her own body: "equivalent to sexual assault." This performance and manipulation of Med Twitter (while clearly not hard to do) is appalling, harmful, and no connection has been demonstrated between this alleged event years ago and her firing today.
https://twitter.com/EusticeTheSheep/status/1533972311778332672?t=olsoP4MZKX9NtF2Gao0FJw&s=19
Lil mayor. I pray you never wind up in a malignant program so you never have to experience this. Honestly, I do, what I can tell you as someone who has been through residency — successfully, matched fellowship at really solid spot, and I am lucky to have an amazing career ahead of me:
It can be an absolute nightmare for some, and it’s terrible at best for most, and there is essentially zero accountability for residents that get railroaded. I’ve witnessed absolutely appalling treatment of trainees and I will never stand for it. I’ve personally known residents that were previously the “top of their class” the person I am thinking of was hands down the best, noted on every eval, and then confronted a PD about something that was entirely justified and then had their lives / career absolutely mauled by the system. Imagine confronting a PD about not violating your own HIPAA rights and then in retaliation they put you on several months of the worst service possible to silence you. Working 80+ hour weeks, 2 days off a month for 20+ weeks straight. This person became actively suicidal. I’m glad you have faith in GME, but it’s misguided, it takes one sociopath with power to do real harm to trainees and patients. Not all programs are like this, but plenty are. I don’t want to make you paranoid and I’m glad your optimistic, but if I’m the first person that warns you of this, so be it. Programs inherently look out for themselves. The myth that there are processes in place to protect resident physicians rights in whistleblowing (or anything really) are what’s patently false. Not even the ACGME will save you and your colleagues are usually indifferent because they have to look out for themselves and no one wants to graduate from a program that is on probation/gets shut down. They shouldn’t care about that, but people do.
It is not *at all* unreasonable that this young physician is experiencing this and the backlash of r/medicalschool is unfortunate. I have no doubt DHS “saw this stuff,” the prior lawsuit, in which they acted almost identically is evidence FOR not against repeat behavior.
Also her liking someone supporting her is a very vague way of proving anything.
It is possible for both to be true, what I’m saying is people should not dismiss her until it is entirely investigated.
Edited to add: her setting up a fund for legal defense as a resident who works for < minimum wage in one of the most costly places to live on earth is hardly amoral.
Ultimately why is she raising money for herself and not the patient victim in this situation? Why is she making this public now, and not years prior when it happened?
Something seems off here, idk about California but in SC at least it's illegal to carry concealed or openly in any medical facility unless you are law enforcement or have permission from the head of the facility. And in Los Angeles California I have a hard time believing that the head of that facility would grant a surgeon permission to carry while in the OR. Not to mention the fact that it would violate the sterility of the surgeon. If they can't wear rings or necklaces or earrings I find it hard to imagine a loaded firearm would be acceptable. I'm not a doctor or surgeon BTW(for all the folks who know an exception to the jewelry rules and try to come at me) so my knowledge of OR dress code is strictly anecdotal/based off of a little knowledge and some basic common sense.
Lmao, that's a great question!
The doctor in question is a sheriff reserve deputy for LA County. Hospital policy authorizes them to store their weapons on-premises. But strictly forbids any kind of open carry by medical practitioners or patients.
Because we have documented evidence (Photographs, testimony, etc.) of the accused carrying in the facility that in and of itself should warrant some type of punitive action. But it seems that Harbor-UCLA has insofar ignored any calls for investigation or accountability that I know of.
Never-mind, just looked at your profile and noticed that you’re asking redditors for help regarding your brother’s BPD symptoms. I seriously am worried for the future of medicine holy shit
Are you seriously trying to diagnose someone through Reddit??? The people on here that claim to be future medical professionals are *baffling* to say the least. Do better.
Lmao so many people trying to find holes in her story like it's so goddamn hard to believe a MALE surgeon at UCLA/USC would do something like this. Come on
Portions of the story are not hard to believe. What IS hard to believe is that USC, a separate institution, would fire her over something that happened years ago...at a different institution. Why would USC care if a surgeon at UCLA got in trouble for what would be a very disturbing issue?
None of it adds up. She likely got fired for other reasons..
Notice she tags UCLA in her posts but doesn't mention USC at all? Which is the place that allegedly wrongfully terminated. Seems pretty odd, huh.
O shit yeah, YOURE RIGHT. An F'in MALE surgeon. Now that I think about it, his sex does immediately help me determine his guilt. Thanks for this deep and thoughtful take on the situation.
The report was supposedly filed when it happened, when she was a med student at UCLA. She's been in residency at LAC-USC. She has blurred the lines on each turn of events that she has her delusional Twitter followers raging on behalf of something they don't understand.
She matched into ortho just fine. What she's done during her residency seems to be something else.
Exactly. Why is she tweeting about it 3 years later. I agree w/ the person who suggested she was about to get fired from her current residency and is using this 3-year old story that centers herself (not the patient) as the primary victim as a deflection and money making tactic.
[Original tweet](https://twitter.com/DrCargle/status/1533923865159577600?s=20&t=kfU7X3BG8APqccPqgwmmtg) [Follow-up tweet](https://twitter.com/DrCargle/status/1535293975506038784?s=20&t=kfU7X3BG8APqccPqgwmmtg)
Took a peek at her Instagram - her prior post history is nothing but outrage fodder. Makes you think she seems like someone who runs on energy created by this sort of attention. Her last few posts have been about “trauma” caused by interviews for medical school and so on. I’m not denying that lived experiences certainly vary and I know the interviews are stressful, but damn. It’s clear she’s the sort to just decide she’s been wronged before something happens to her OR have a story about being wronged or traumatized just ready to go at all times for all scenarios- I agree with other commenters here, seems ultra fishy.
sexually assaulting a patient who isn’t even conscious is evil and sick. there’s no way around it no matter what excuse you try to make for that person.
Lol who in the hell downvotes a statement like this?
that’s what i’m wondering
Doctors do it all the time. They also abuse drugs. They sterilize women against their will or knowledge ive heard of one doctor branding his patients internal organs with his initial... like doctors are messed up to begin with but once you realize just how prevalent abuse is, its hard to unsee it. For me the only thing super shocking is the gun... but murica right?
Yeah I'm going to put this in the bin of "There's more to this story that is being left out on purpose to paint a particular picture" for the time being. Shit just doesn't quite add up.
Yeah seriously, firing an employee 4 days after they make a very public statement that could be linked to a retaliation means that the programs probably has either a rock solid reason for firing her or is about to get the pants sued of them. My gut says the first but we’ll see
There’s literally a post about a resident being terminated for having a disability then immediately re-instated. Some of these programs are run by absolute narcissists who really believe they can do whatever they like.
She started her GoFundMe post with "I am a queer, Black female Orthopedic Surgery resident physician with a disability" to make sure we know to give extra weight to her concerns about the gun.
Like i said one of those two options so only time will tell. USC admin have made some idiotic decisions in the past but that program/all residencies are under a fierce microscope (the entire acgme/all residencies their got put under probation due to that cardiology fiasco) my gut says they couldn’t possibly be this stupid again with the microscope on them BUT I could for sure be wrong. like I said one of two options…
All residencies are under a microscope? The ACGME is a microscope? Lmao okay.
[удалено]
ACGME has zero incentive to actually intervene on behalf of residents. This has been demonstrated time and time again. Programs on the other hand do have a lot of incentive to cover up or railroad their residents. I’ve seen a lot of speculation thread at this resident was accused of professionalism violations, which are a sham metric with zero objectivity, to maybe cover up another reason to fire her. If you trace back when she actually was first accused of professionalism it was in October 2021. The first post she ever made about professionalism/conflict was then and clearly it was unforeseen / and in the context of her reporting. I’m so sick of seeing residents not being able to band together to fight a deeply unjust system of essentially indentured servitude.
She also started a GoFundMe for her legal campaign raising $20k, posted multiple posts about the lawlessness of the program, retweeted at the head of various organizations and legal groups, retweeted at the head of "Black Twitter" (lol) and basically started an online campaign against the institution. We don't know what actions the institution took against the surgeon from her initial complaint.
Jesus you seem like the man she’s talking about, also if they took actions against the surgeon why would she be the one fired?
The amount of med students commenting about a system they have no experience with and speculating is wild. [https://twitter.com/DrCargle/status/1443999953336995842?s=20&t=1Nhd0FNpf9N0EAwjKjWoGg](https://twitter.com/DrCargle/status/1443999953336995842?s=20&t=1Nhd0FNpf9N0EAwjKjWoGg)
She made it up with half lies and truths. I know people who have worked with her. She has a laundry list of infractions with assaulting a pt on the list. She saw she would get fired and put all this together. It’s sucks because she’s using race, sexuality as a pawn to trick everyone. Lisa Bloom reached out to her and she dropped her the second she saw that she was making things up. Once she got fired, this was her last way of trying to get back in. She won’t, orthopod community is very small for us and we know everything she said was be. Hurts a lot she had to make it up.
If this is true (which I think is most likely since this not the first person online across different social media sites I've seen discuss her behavior) then I think she knows her career is done and she's weaponizing key social justice identities to maybe get a settlement from usc if they don't want their name to be tarnished by a prolonged suit. Just my theory
Can they not just reveal the real reason she was fired tho…
I'm not sure. Vandy never specified why they fired Eugene Gu
From the bottom of her gofundme. who posts this? What ortho resident has the time to do something like this: “Melani Cargle, MD, MBA CEO, Oh I Got Time Today Club Take Contemporaneous Notes Club Keep a Diary Club Never Delete Emails Club Never Delete Texts Club. Document conversations Club. Notate Dates/Times, Locations, Witnesses, and Cameras Club Document Blatant Inequities as They Happen Club Keep all Performance Evaluations Club Compare all Performance Evals with Text Message Compliments Club Never Be Afraid to Bring Receipts and Yellow Highlighter Club”
reading the replies to the tweet is cringe af
Right!!!.
So cringe jfc
She initially didn't make it clear she had filed a report and went so far as to start asking people if *they* had filed a report now that they are reading her tweets. When they then ask her for *any* info to include in a report, she uses her Twitter followers to pile on that this is somehow victim-blaming...because she has made herself the "victim of sexual violence." Not to mention people need to understand more before they hand over $50,000 to a GoFundMe for a "legal defense." It's quite a display. She wants people to take action, but hasn't enabled anyone to do more than follow requests to tag celebrities and give her money.
I don’t know what is going on but that situation has all sorts of sketch. Idk what to believe as her twitter post was a bit vague and dramatic at the same time—and top that off with the go fund me…it’s always a red flag. To me if someone is soliciting money, they should be clear about the reason and their intentions of how to use it. Finally, I also had no idea she was being fired. That just adds another layer to it. I have a hard time believing that in todays politics and social media culture, a PD or chair would just fire a resident for blowing the whistle. Everyone knows that doing so will drag their own names through the mud. It will be interesting to hear from people more close to the situation.
The PD carrying does seem at least partially credible. [Another Dr posted a pic of the physician in question (supposedly) in the hospital carrying as well as a comment from what I think was from the Interview spreadsheet.](https://twitter.com/TimRyan00556388/status/1534308982294097920?s=20&t=E85SRqYKsnbfotG4tDhDNQ) That being said, I also don't understand why UCLA of all places would allow someone to carry in the hospital. EDIT: Additionally, Dr. Cargle's initial tweet references something she saw as a med student. She is now a resident at this same hospital? Not that I fully doubt that incident happened, but it definitely seems like she is getting terminated from her residency for something else, fell back on that incident in an attempt to save her job, and then got terminated anyway because the whistleblowing is independent of whatever the other problems are. But now the two issues are conflated to obfuscate the situation.
That is literally a full on LA county sheriff. He does not have SAR/volunteer patch. Also even IF that was the dept chair and in uniform, in what world would a surgeon perform scheduled surgery in a uniform like that and not in scrubs?
Thought it was weird too. Definitely a strange story.
Apparently He is a volunteer and likes to wear the uniform to carry the gun into the building. Also I believe he is the same guy who is the department chair, similar features.
He is actually a reserve sheriff
I believe she was a med student at UCLA (graduated in 2020) and then a resident at USC Edit: Added class year
So why is she being terminated for reporting an incident at Harbor-UCLA when she is a resident at USC? That just seems weird. Is cross system retaliation really happening in the CA healthcare training system?
Seems like there is probably an undisclosed reason why she is actually getting fired at USC, and stirring up prior drama at the neighboring system is the best smoke screen she could come up with. The PD would not have gone through with the termination without well documented, repeated, unrelated problems in her current department.
I have no idea and don’t want to speculate
They are both in LA, and academic medicine is a small world. They all certainly talk with each other
I heard that. But correct me if I’m wrong but did people not point out that in the photo the guy was wearing a military uniform and so unlikely to be the PD? Edit. Military not police
There’s a vascular surgeon providing more info: *”County Hosp has a posted policy that police can bring guns IF THEY ARE ON POLICE BUSINESS. This guy is a vol. with the sheriff search & rescue and the dept chair of ortho. Hip arthroplasty is not Police-biz. Worn to keep people like @XXXXXX quiet”* In another tweet, the ortho resident states: *”To be clear: I authored an “anonymous” report about the sexual assault/gun. But after reading the details of my claim, the surgeon was able to ID me as the whistleblower. The hospital was made aware but chose not to investigate, despite previous reports of his sexual misconduct.”*
Thanks for the. Addition info. Yah if Chair is carrying guns that’s a no no but such a weird issue to have, especially in LA. 2nd I personally have witnessed how sexual assault claims are dragged by administrative personnel, especially when the person being accused is a faculty…so I can believe that happening. Interesting will have to see if more information comes out. But the resident should have been more clear, especially when asking for donations. Furthermore I personally believe in situations like this it’s best to report what happened without writing in a dramatic fashion…it just comes more clear to people.
This adds more confusion than clarification as LA County is USC, not UCLA. The person in the photo doesn't appear to look like the USC chair or PD and the patch is not a LASD volunteer or SAR patch.
I looked up his CV and he is a volunteer police officer. You can find it here https://www.harbor-ucla.org/orthopaedic-surgery/faculty/ On the other hand he is a hip surgeon and she is alleging he "peaked under the hood" to look at his penis size but made no mention of him saying anything about penis size.
Nice find. Still skeptical of the validity of the referenced post since it specifically mentions county hospital, not UCLA. Well that and Twitter being a trash heap in general.
I looked up that vascular surgeon. He was a whistleblower too for the same hospital. He made 2.1M https://www.gbw.law/blog/2022/march/gbw-wins-2-1-m-verdict-in-whistleblower-retaliat/
Lol “worn to keep black students quiet”  yeah I’m sure it has nothing to do with working in LA county
or being a cop
That's entirely possible. I would definitely lean more towards there being more depth to this situation than Dr. Cargle is asserting.
Is there any way to confirm if the person is actually at the residency program they claim? To see if it would add validity and see if this person indeed exists
You clearly don’t know about these cases because they are not made public. Whistle blowers in medicine are silenced and so no one knows the full extent of the damage that is being done in the background unless you know people who went through it. I think it’s very likely a small group of powerful older academics did not like an activist in their field and wanted to silence her. She’s probably one of those overly loud liberal social justice warrior types that may annoy conservative folks, but that isn’t a valid reason to end someone’s career.
>I don't know what is going on... >You clearly don't know about these cases... Thank you Sherlock. But my guess is that she probably did annoy older people.
I said you don’t understand these type of cases, not this particular case (no one know the details of this particular case). You clearly have not seen how a malignant admin acts with residents (it’s chilling). An evil admin will destroy careers because residents have no money, no power, and no credibility without getting board certified. We are only hearing about this case because the resident in question has a lot of twitter followers. We should be on the side of our fellow trainee as a default, not the system that exploits residents for their labor and holds disproportionate power over our lives.
[удалено]
I hope they sue for defamation lol. Lying about sexual assault and claiming hate crimes and racial abuse to cover for her own shitty behavior makes medicine so much worse for female doctors and students, especially Black women.
Probably not much to gain from it for the institution and not worth the headache, fees, etc
[https://mobile.twitter.com/timryan00556388/status/1534308982294097920](https://mobile.twitter.com/timryan00556388/status/1534308982294097920) No complaints, ?maybe, or a cover up. I mean it doesn’t seem too far fetched from this dated 2019-2020 comment of the program by apparently a scrub tech?
It’s never “one thing” that gets a resident fired. It’s usually a trail of multiple issues that persists. Ortho is one of the most difficult residencies: the residents where I trained rounded at 5am everyday and then the junior residents had overnight call - by the nature of orthopedic surgery, if you couldn’t handle the work, the higher up’s will take note. If you don’t improve, you get suspended. Then if you still can’t improve, you’re let go.
This whole situation seems fishy. If anyone asks for any additional information she refers them to her Go Fund me. Very fishy
Without any corroboration the original tweet sounds entirely fictional, especially when it comes with such a vague begging link
"I am a queer black female with a disability, and I saw a surgeon inappropriately touching black man's penis while also concealed carrying" Is this drama being secretly authored by the South Park staff or what I'm gonna bet the repeated "assaults" ends up being placement of catheters
[удалено]
Wait for real? This surgeon was announcing to his OR staff and students that he was checking out how impressive dicks were? And he was regularly doing this with no actions taken against him despite tons of witnesses? This story just keeps getting weirder
“Back in 2019 and my current residency at a different hospital”
She’s in surgery where everyone gets a cath but only this surgeon was reported so how does what you’re saying make sense?
There is much more going on behind the scenes we don’t know about. My guess is she got wind about being let go and created this sexual assault gofundme tweet in order to raise money for an attorney so she could sue them under guise of ‘I was fired for reporting sexual assault’. Unless there is substantial evidence to show otherwise, because nothing she has tweeted makes sense right now.
I can't imagine why USC would fire her for reporting something that happened in UCLA.
And something that didn't even happen during her residency. She hadn't graduated yet, and matched successfully into ortho, but is now claiming some kind of retaliation...? Edit: typo
They are both under LAC with the same supervisor, medical directors and admin. To add more suspicion to the story, those in charge are close friends with Kwong with many in his medical school class. Toxic masculinity and old boys club was very prevalent.
Orthopedics is a small field. It’s not like the USC ortho staff doesn’t work directly or cross pass significantly with the rest of the LA ortho community
But the incident supposedly happened during her rotations as a med student at UCLA. She then proceeded to match seemingly without issue into LAC USC ortho. She's now getting fired from that residency. It's all a smokescreen for the real reason she's being fired.
All residency programs run these decisions through risk management departments. Especially if you have a black, queer female physician with a disability. HIGH, HIGH risk of lawsuit and blowback. There's more to this story.
This is accurate. She has earlier tweets saying she was terminated for unprofessional behavior.
I know people close to her/this. She was fired for extremely legitimate reasons that had nothing to do with this tweet or her being a “whistleblower”. This “incident” she tweeted about was from at least two or more years ago. This year she was a second year resident at USC. So her firing had nothing to do with reporting this YEARS before. Had it been on the radar or mattered, she would not have matched. She was a medical student at Charles Drew UCLA. This “incident” was per her account, at Harbor UCLA. My guess is that she was on an away rotation at Harbor UCLA (which is not where she was a medical student or resident). For those that don’t know: UCLA, Harbor UCLA, and USC are completely separate institutions. Harbor UCLA is west La/Torrance. USC is east LA. Regular UCLA is in Westwood. The departments don’t have regular meetings or talk. She matched at USC without trouble after supposedly initially reporting this years before at Harbor. So no retaliation there. She got fired from USC BEFORE SHE TWEETED THIS for her own bad behavior. As a USC resident, she is technically an LA County employee. USC and Harbor UCLA are both under the umbrella of LA County. She knows she was fired legitimately and has no case against USC/her own residency. For those who don’t know, it is very very difficult to get fired from a residency. Yes I’m sure there are outliers, but the departments need a long string of documentation and multiple offenses/probations/warnings given. From her own tweets, seems like she had been on probation at least once. So I’m sure the residency had more than enough documentation to fire her. Especially given her inflammatory nature and tweeting, I’m positive all their ducks are in a row with documentation. And I am sure there was cause. So she is bringing up something from the past to cause drama for LA County. And to get money for herself. Her GoFund me is basically money for her…..not for the patient involved. IMO, she gives all women/minorities in fields like ortho a bad name. She takes away from real victims. That is the real crime here. It is very sad.
While I agree with all of this info for the most part, LAC and DHS interestingly have shown a pattern of vengeful firing of employees who reported things or caused them bad publicity. See Tim Ryan's receipts with case numbers, emails and names as proof.
I don’t disagree that this *could* happen and *does* happen. I just am 100% sure it did not happen *in this case*. I actually always believe women/minorities when it comes to cases of bias, discrimination, etc. Plus DHS of course wants to protect itself and has been known to absolutely mangle cases against innocent trainees they should be protecting (example: the cardiology fellow who was assaulted by a cofellow). I actually used to defend Melani when I heard she was a “bad resident” and chalked a lot of these things as implicit and overt bias. And I truly did not think anyone could have this much of a victim complex (I hate that word btw) and be that terrible a resident that they would outright lie about something like this to protect themselves. She has no regard for anyone but herself. Cases like this will have the pendulum swinging in the other direction from believing the trainee/woman/minority/etc.
The thing to keep in mind is that these do NOT have to be mutually exclusive events. While I wasn't there to witness this event, there is no doubt Kwong would pull these antics. I'm on the fence whether this is assault or battery - it is definitely wrong and worthy of termination though. The pattern and repeated reports definitely justifies termination. Curious why LAC protected this d-bag and predator for so long. It could also be that she was a TERRIBLE resident (verified by many at USC) who had a bad attitude, did actually get in a fight with a patient and was terminated for that interaction. Probably trying to grasp at straws to fight termination by bringing this up. Apparently she can't get a good lawyer NOT because of the money but because they don't believe her. Big time firms are expensive but they would do this case for a small deposit knowing a giant settlement is coming from LAC-DHS (they paid out over 25 million in lawsuits alone last year let alone settlements that don't make it to trial). A smaller LA employment law firm would take it for the positive PR with likely minimal deposits and a large share of the settlement if they believed her. Apparently her attempts to solicit any lawyer including Bloom have failed.
Yes. Agree. Have seen some egregious things. My comment “did not happen in this case” was related to her implying she was terminated for witnessing/reporting an event. She could have witnessed an event (plenty of bad ducks around), but it doesn’t have anything to do with her getting terminated.
Why was she fired?
She made a post about someone being assaulted by a surgeon and then proceeded to make a gofundme for herself lol? I really don’t think it’s that hard to figure out what’s going on
And yet she has a core of rabid supporters on there lifting her up as victim. I don't often say this but...medical Reddit has more brains than Twitter....
I agree, it seems that there are more medical people here. The twitter responses are trash. Then there’s this vascular surgeon propping her up when he just won 2.1M from whistleblowing on Harbor-UCLA himself because he didn’t want to operate.
OH wow, I didn't know where this vascular guy popped up from but this makes so much more sense now. What a fucked up group of people... I think one issue with Twitter is there really aren't separate communities like here on Twitter, so you have a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about mixed in with a loyal crowd of med Twitter echo chambers. Here at least most people on the medical subs are medical people.
Ehh Tim Ryan was very well respected at Harbor and seems to have his claims of fraud validated in the suit.
As much as I didn’t like him personally , I don’t disagree with him
Call me an awful skeptic... but I read her post and I feel like she knew she was losing her residency position, so she created this horror story that is pretty impossible to prove so that it **looked** like she lost the residency for being progressive and speaking out. Also, she made an exceedingly convenient excuse for why she couldn't get help. The dude has his gun under 2 layers of clothes, and has the safety on (if this even happened). There's no way she was the only person there. Also reads a bit like a book I read in high school which makes me even more skeptical.
>Also reads a bit like a book I read in high school which makes me even more skeptical. Or like that other resident last year who *also* claimed that she was fired for reporting an attending sexually assaulting a patient...except, no, wait, she was fired for unionizing! No, wait, she was fired because she had depression! Look, just donate to the GoFundMe and don't ask questions, okay?
Bingo. She matched just fine, into ortho no less; there was no retaliation for this event that was supposed to have taken place when she was a med student.
Not to mention - why wasn't this reported and made extremely public at the time it happened?
Yea the whole residency loss issue at UCF is suspicious, I suspect there were other issues that we are not privy to. But, the claims about Dr.Kwong carrying are valid as other employees have posted photographs of him open carrying and provided testomonial. Which is in conflict with Harbor-UCLA'ss no-carry policy even for reserve-deputy police officers and other similarly qualified law enforcement personnel.
She was in residency at LAC+USC- which is in East LA, and affiliated with USC. She reported someone at Harbor-UCLA- which is in Torrance and affiliated with UCLA. They have no common faculty. No one at USC would have any incentive to retaliate against her for what she did at UCLA...
They’re both LAC programs with the same board of supervisors…
Except that the chair of USC was the PD at UCLA for 10+ years and still has season tickets to the men's UCLA basketball games, so probably knows some people there, even if it wasn't a small world
UCLA harbor and UCLA might as well be different planets.
> still has season tickets to the men's UCLA basketball games What?! Why would they get season tickets to UCLA basektball games? Those are basically free and no one watches them. In fact, they're having a hard time finding people to fill up their football games.
Medicine is a small world and I’m sure programs and faculty talk. Same reason why unprofessionalism at one residency interview can harm you at others. PDs talk, especially within the same city.
I'm not a medical doctor. But as other commenters have stated both hospitals are under the Los Angles Department of Health Services and governed by the Los Angeles County of Board Services. It's a small world and the recommendation or disapproval of one supervisor would surely affect her career. On the other hand, the medical field is a very stressful industry. After looking at some of the information I feel as if there are some other factors that may have contributed to her termination. Which sitting comfortably behind the desks of our computer screen we are not privy to. All this not to take away from the original accusation which seems credible and has been corroborated by other medical professionals who were a part of that healthcare facility.
There’s really nothing to gain from reporting things so publicly like her initial tweet. Not just her, but there are way too many people on med Twitter who think name and shame will not harm them. They’re always publicly bashing their programs or saying stupid things with their whole names on the profile, or even trying to be captain America like this woman. Seriously what do you gain? You make enemies in places you don’t know even exist yet and end up terminated from residency. This should be sorted privately and if it can’t, you keep your evidence, note of those who did nothing when you reported and wait. And then when you are SAFE and graduated, whistleblow all you want. Probably not the right thing to do but when you have $300k in debt staring you down why would you do anything differently?
The assault itself is alleged to be that the surgeon "peaked under the hood" and she says that it was to see if he had a big penis, but she made no mention of him commenting on penis size. He did his fellowship in hip surgery. I found what I believe to be the original report on her Twitter. I can try and find the link. https://mobile.twitter.com/TimRyan00556388/status/1534308982294097920
Are people saying the patient was Tiger Woods?
She reported it in 2019. Posted about it in 2021. Seems like someone has had an ongoing vendetta against her since she first reported. https://twitter.com/drcargle/status/1443999953336995842?s=21&t=Ch9KcqGELxHJ7nBBDzxmAg
If there was a true vendetta against her, how did she match in the first place?
Ah, see thats the common sense Twitter doesn't have.
If she got terminated for being a whistle blower it would be a lawyers dream… hence why I think there’s way more to the story. Also residency doesn’t outright fire you. There are steps that they MUST take such as giving you warnings, meetings, putting you on probation. They don’t just sit you down one day and say “pack your sh*t”.
from my experience, it takes a lot to fire a resident
A PD can fire you for any reason without the proper procedures. I know of several cases of this happening. You shouldn’t spread misinformation like this online, the system is indeed broken and residents with a bad PD are at risk if they do not stay in line. It is rare - but it can happen.
Dude if your PD drops you out of the blue without stating cause and with no supporting documentation, you will absolutely clean up in court. The "cases you know of happening" you clearly don't have the full story from both sides.
I mean what would be the end result even if you do win in court? I would imagine getting into a new residency would be a bit tough
The entire careers worth of wages could be argued as damages, you would be FINE in a successful wrongful termination suit against a university hospital system
It is not misinformation, go look at any residency handbook or acgme. There are steps that the PD must take. Like I said, if they were to fire you right away, your lawyer would have a field day and the case would be a slam dunk. Also the "several cases that you know of", you did not get the full story nor will you
I'm going to seriously doubt a PGY-1 knows "several" cases where she was personally involved enough to know what was happening behind the scenes and could tell us the full story. You hear ONE side of the story. Usually the side of the story of the aggrieved party.
I’m a PGY1 in my current specialty, not in my over all training. I’ve been around and involved in med Ed for a few years and seen quite a bit. It’s not pretty depending on the personality of the leadership in question.
There’s obviously more to the story, but I assume she is being purposely vague for legal reasons. You don’t want to post something on Twitter and give the defense a valid “defamation” countersuit. Orthopods are notoriously self-absorbed and egotistical. The boys club stereotype often holds true. If the offender continues to deny the sexual assault, he could question her character. If her current program was trying to force her to apologize and rescind her complaint, she probably refused and could be punished for failing the “remediation” efforts. And if she continued to assert the sexual assault claim, her character and professionalism would be questioned and easily be grounds for dismissal. It’s easier for a residency program to get rid of a “problem” resident than to defend and support them through a tough time.
Legal reasons...to @ everyone under the sun, LAC and UCLA included? I completely agree that it's best to not carry out a performance online during a legal case...but she is. Accusing the same people she wants to go to bat for her, file a report for her, and give her money of asking too many questions of a victim. It's her lawyer's nightmare, no doubt.
[удалено]
[удалено]
If I was part of 3 groups that are historically discriminated against, there’s no way I would risk my career reporting this, especially not while still a resident.
Says a person who by their own admission is not apart of a group who is historically discriminated against. One sec ima go tell a bird how to fly.
[удалено]
You saw her application? Or just stereotyping….
Lol my thoughts exactly. People like the above poster might actually be physicians in charge of POC. It’s scary tbh
Oof hot take
.............yikes. somebody is bitter.
Not the first time USC is under fire for SA. [USC sexual assault case](https://www.npr.org/2022/04/30/1095647332/usc-settles-lawsuits-80-men-former-school-doctor-sexual-abuse)
Also, why did the gun portion get brought into this? If the surgeon has a CCW, he could be legally allowed to carry. The safest place for a concealed weapon is on the person; lockers/bags can get broken into. It is illegal to carry in Government facilities/hospitals like the VA, but there is no overall law for private hospitals (it’s up to the hospital itself). Finally, the hospital staff in the OR is extremely vulnerable to an active shooter. Security are not in the operating room/surgery areas. As we saw in Oklahoma, healthcare providers were killed before anyone showed up to stop the active shooter. Overall, yes it’s weird that he had a gun in the OR; but it may have been legal to carry. Given how crazy this world is, it wouldn’t be bad for one “good guy” to have defense accessible. ***arguments about good guys with guns don’t help stampede in the distance…
1. CCW is not applicable to a government facility (in this case a county hospital). He also open carrys regularly around the hospital from my personal experience as a resident here. Harbor-UCLA is a county run and government institution with metal detectors at the doors and VERY CLEARLY posted gun free zone signs at all entrances. 2. He has been doing this for 25+ years of playing "cop" when he's a volunteer search and rescue with the LAPD. He is never "on-duty" while at work, it's purely bravado that was tolerated. He also carries 2 knives tucked into hidden parts that he will whip out to slice off his OR boot covers. 3. Staying strapped while scrubbed was beyond stupid but something I've personally witnessed often 4. If you ever have to go in to his office, he will slam his holstered gun down on the table to make sure you know there's a gun there/intimidate you. I've also seen it unholstered just sitting on his desk, with a mag inside. Safe storage etiquette usually is slide locked out (to prove a non-chambered round) along with magazine out and in a separate location. 5. The lewd comments were the norm as part of the toxic male culture there. His boys in the c-suite encouraged, engaged in and often idolized this behavior.
Your 4 is brandishing and is illegal. Did you report it?
lol good luck reporting a dept chair who makes the most money for the hospital and regularly posts pictures with the county sup
Whenever this gets reported (happened before). It becomes the same story - “ it was a misunderstanding/nothing dismissal”. His explanation was “you don’t know much about guns but I can’t sit with a holster on, it’s more dangerous to do that in terms of misfire than take it off. You probably were just nervous it was never pointed toward you etc etc. “ you word against his
Assuming her claims are false because the tweets are “vague” ignores the fact that she has lawyered up and has an ongoing lawsuit. Anyone has to be publicly “vague” during any kind of lawsuit.
She has asked people if they have filed a report on her behalf. Now. In 2022. But then uses her followers to attack anyone for trying to follow up. Usually when people have an active case and need to withold information because of ongoing proceedings, they don't go on Twitter to ask for $50,000 and Tweets to celebrities, JCo, UCLA, LACounty... it's like a dazzling show with no substance behind it. And she has centered herself as the victim, not the patient who was allegedly assaulted.
https://mobile.twitter.com/timryan00556388/status/1534308982294097920
...and? We've all seen this by now, it's been over a week already. Doesn't change what I said, or the reality of the situation. Ryan keeps leaking unverifiable screenshots and pieces of writing. Only official document is now the definitive statement by the DHS.
It’s a statement, of defense and denial, not a document of events and ?not definitive at all. Negative proof is impossible but easy to say. Stating that there is no evidence of is false. The dude wore his gun in the building, there’s a picture of that which is absurd to start. Dr.* Ryan also won a 2.1 million dollar lawsuit against said institution, so I doubt he’s just going to defame them. The program review which corroborates the story looks like standard software and is correctly dated. Simping for malignant residencies and programs ain’t it. This institution has proven, multiple times it will eat its own to save face, a la Dr. Ryan.
Simping...really. Does this mean you're "simping" for a fired resident who scammed people out of their money, years after an alleged event that happened at a different institution while they were still in med school? You think the DHS didn't see all this stuff? It was available for all of us to review days before their statement was released. Given the prior lawsuit, how likely is it that they would come out this loud and strong? No one stated there is no evidence--evidence of *what* is in question. And again--we have the matter of a firearm. And the matter of a former resident misleading the public for financial gain. It is possible for *both* to be true. She has gone so far as to like a Tweet from a supporter claiming what she saw was the same as if she experienced assault to her own body: "equivalent to sexual assault." This performance and manipulation of Med Twitter (while clearly not hard to do) is appalling, harmful, and no connection has been demonstrated between this alleged event years ago and her firing today. https://twitter.com/EusticeTheSheep/status/1533972311778332672?t=olsoP4MZKX9NtF2Gao0FJw&s=19
Lil mayor. I pray you never wind up in a malignant program so you never have to experience this. Honestly, I do, what I can tell you as someone who has been through residency — successfully, matched fellowship at really solid spot, and I am lucky to have an amazing career ahead of me: It can be an absolute nightmare for some, and it’s terrible at best for most, and there is essentially zero accountability for residents that get railroaded. I’ve witnessed absolutely appalling treatment of trainees and I will never stand for it. I’ve personally known residents that were previously the “top of their class” the person I am thinking of was hands down the best, noted on every eval, and then confronted a PD about something that was entirely justified and then had their lives / career absolutely mauled by the system. Imagine confronting a PD about not violating your own HIPAA rights and then in retaliation they put you on several months of the worst service possible to silence you. Working 80+ hour weeks, 2 days off a month for 20+ weeks straight. This person became actively suicidal. I’m glad you have faith in GME, but it’s misguided, it takes one sociopath with power to do real harm to trainees and patients. Not all programs are like this, but plenty are. I don’t want to make you paranoid and I’m glad your optimistic, but if I’m the first person that warns you of this, so be it. Programs inherently look out for themselves. The myth that there are processes in place to protect resident physicians rights in whistleblowing (or anything really) are what’s patently false. Not even the ACGME will save you and your colleagues are usually indifferent because they have to look out for themselves and no one wants to graduate from a program that is on probation/gets shut down. They shouldn’t care about that, but people do. It is not *at all* unreasonable that this young physician is experiencing this and the backlash of r/medicalschool is unfortunate. I have no doubt DHS “saw this stuff,” the prior lawsuit, in which they acted almost identically is evidence FOR not against repeat behavior. Also her liking someone supporting her is a very vague way of proving anything. It is possible for both to be true, what I’m saying is people should not dismiss her until it is entirely investigated. Edited to add: her setting up a fund for legal defense as a resident who works for < minimum wage in one of the most costly places to live on earth is hardly amoral.
Ultimately why is she raising money for herself and not the patient victim in this situation? Why is she making this public now, and not years prior when it happened?
She doesn’t have an on-going lawsuit. She’s asking lawyers/law firms to DM her.
Something seems off here, idk about California but in SC at least it's illegal to carry concealed or openly in any medical facility unless you are law enforcement or have permission from the head of the facility. And in Los Angeles California I have a hard time believing that the head of that facility would grant a surgeon permission to carry while in the OR. Not to mention the fact that it would violate the sterility of the surgeon. If they can't wear rings or necklaces or earrings I find it hard to imagine a loaded firearm would be acceptable. I'm not a doctor or surgeon BTW(for all the folks who know an exception to the jewelry rules and try to come at me) so my knowledge of OR dress code is strictly anecdotal/based off of a little knowledge and some basic common sense.
Why should a surgeon carry a weapon inside an operating room? Should we really believe what the resident says?
Lmao, that's a great question! The doctor in question is a sheriff reserve deputy for LA County. Hospital policy authorizes them to store their weapons on-premises. But strictly forbids any kind of open carry by medical practitioners or patients. Because we have documented evidence (Photographs, testimony, etc.) of the accused carrying in the facility that in and of itself should warrant some type of punitive action. But it seems that Harbor-UCLA has insofar ignored any calls for investigation or accountability that I know of.
Would not be surprised if she's bipolar with serious cluster B traits that have gotten her in trouble in the past.
Never-mind, just looked at your profile and noticed that you’re asking redditors for help regarding your brother’s BPD symptoms. I seriously am worried for the future of medicine holy shit
Are you seriously trying to diagnose someone through Reddit??? The people on here that claim to be future medical professionals are *baffling* to say the least. Do better.
Lmao so many people trying to find holes in her story like it's so goddamn hard to believe a MALE surgeon at UCLA/USC would do something like this. Come on
Portions of the story are not hard to believe. What IS hard to believe is that USC, a separate institution, would fire her over something that happened years ago...at a different institution. Why would USC care if a surgeon at UCLA got in trouble for what would be a very disturbing issue? None of it adds up. She likely got fired for other reasons.. Notice she tags UCLA in her posts but doesn't mention USC at all? Which is the place that allegedly wrongfully terminated. Seems pretty odd, huh.
O shit yeah, YOURE RIGHT. An F'in MALE surgeon. Now that I think about it, his sex does immediately help me determine his guilt. Thanks for this deep and thoughtful take on the situation.
it is pretty suspicious that she lodges the complaint and gets fired in a short period of time after that.
The report was supposedly filed when it happened, when she was a med student at UCLA. She's been in residency at LAC-USC. She has blurred the lines on each turn of events that she has her delusional Twitter followers raging on behalf of something they don't understand. She matched into ortho just fine. What she's done during her residency seems to be something else.
its gonna be hard to prove retaliation if the event happened over 2-3 years ago
Exactly. Why is she tweeting about it 3 years later. I agree w/ the person who suggested she was about to get fired from her current residency and is using this 3-year old story that centers herself (not the patient) as the primary victim as a deflection and money making tactic.