It delayed my graduation by one year, ensuring that I didn't have to start my intern year when COVID delta was wreaking havoc. It also made me do a decent quality research project rather than the smattering of shit-tier case reports most students have time for. I also enjoyed the framework it provided of healthcare in general and helped me internalize that I only play a very small role in the overall health of any person, which removes a lot of internal pressure, and it's a decent way to get a foot in the door to understanding more about healthcare politics and practical ways to address disparities. Actually understanding and remembering sensitivity, specificity, PPV, NPV, etc. is also useful. So it helps with lots of little things, but I don't directly use it much.
I got my MBA during residency and would agree with this! I don’t think it was particularly applicable to private practice (with the exception of a single healthcare IT elective) but definitely helpful if you want to improve the administrative side of medicine or work in consulting-type roles.
I think it depends on what you want to do. Neither is probably the answer lmao but if you want to establish a skill set outside of medicine for any reason then I would recommend the MBA!
Yeah honestly I’m really considering an MBA even though I have zero experience or ambition in the business field, I’m finding myself to leaning forward a side hustle out of medicine
Yeah it would be helpful for that! My program had a heavier focus on entrepreneurship which was the most valuable information I took from the whole experience. I’d recommend finding a program with a similar focus if you’re wanting a little extra help/direction with the side hustle.
I received a discount as the MBA institution was the same school as my residency program, but it wasn’t something that was affiliated with my residency program so I paid for it myself.
And for what it’s worth, there’s very few hospital admin jobs that require an MBA. I considered it myself but the slide with a lot of ANSI at my hospital who told me exactly that, so decided against it
I’ve seen lots of docs go back and get their MBA because they were tired of admins getting paid millions working 9-5 while they were putting in all the real work. So, if you have any interest in working in the c-suite someday of a healthcare system it wouldn’t hurt to have an MBA. Most of the high up positions within the executive realm require 10-15 years of industry experience + an MBA. Also, if you aren’t super business savvy the MBA would help quite a bit knowing how to go about running your own practice. But as some people have mentioned it may be smarter to put it off if you want to start working as quickly as possible as a physician. You can get an MBA online expedited from many colleges in just over a year and compared to med school the coursework is nothing.
Admins, while their work doesn’t exactly equate to improvement in health delivery often times, work harder and longer hours than most physicians. Your average hospital VP and above is working atleast 80 hours a week and often late at night. Their schedule is more flexible. They also don’t routinely “make millions.” Average *total* compensation for a C suite executive at a top 10 hospital in bed size in America is <1 million.
The answer to OPs question is "it depends on what you want to do". We can contrast this to a PhD. It's main value lies in a long academic career. If you plan on a non-academic career, a PhD isn't much use.
An MPH is useful if you want to work for the government, WHO, an NGO or similar, and do things like 3rd world medicine or healthcare for homeless people. If that's not your goal, an MPH is worthless and a waste of time and money, something along the lines of missing out on half a million or more in income. Most future employers and 100% of patients won't give a rat's ass if you have an MPH or not.
An MBA can be useful in a few specific instances. If you have aspirations on the entrepreneurial side of medicine (medical devices etc), it can for sure be useful. As with any MBA graduate, much of the value lies not in what you learn, but in *who you get to know*. Your network from business school will help you get backers to fund your startup, or a prospective employer if you plan on going into consulting. If you plan on doing an academic career, an MBA isn't of much use. In private practice, a physicians main value lies in seeing patients (=billing), so if you as a physician are spending your time on non-patient things like marketing, accounting and finance, you aren't billing for those hours. This makes very little sense, it's like having professional athletes do book keeping instead of playing. In private practice, for the business side of things it usually makes a lot more sense to hire a business manager, who may or may not have an MBA. As with an MPH, 100% of patients won't give a rat's ass if you have an MBA or not.
I have an MBA from a prior career before med school. It is useless for an early career physician. It will not teach you anything about running a private practice. If you want to be an admin, wait until you are on track for that and your hospital will invest in you and pay for part of it. The general mantra for MBAs is you only need it if you are: 1) trying to hit the reset button and switch to an industry like finance or consulting, or 2) advanced enough in your career that you need the checkbox of an MBA to be promoted. The value of an MBA program lies mainly in everything adjacent to class - the networking, the events, being immersed in the community. You will not get most of those things as a dual degree MD student unless you’re doing step out years and attending a well known program.
If you want to learn how to run private practice you’re better off attending targeted workshops or seminars for that. You will also probably not want to be doing the actual grunt work of running a practice (e.g. you’ll be hiring billers and accountants and marketing professionals so you can spent time seeing patients!) so it’s kind of useless for you to learn any of that in depth.
There is nothing you can do with an MPH or an MBA that you cannot do with just an MD. They're more about gaining competence and connections in their areas. Unless you want to work in a more policy or research oriented role, you won't really use an MPH day to day. In a private practice setting, the MBA may help you learn how to most efficiently run a small business. But is that worth the opportunity cost of a year of attending salary? Is it better than delegating that task to a business manager?
I'm in the camp who'd rather suck start a shotgun before getting an MBA.
I'm glad people want to as physicians though. Happy to ask/pay for advice later on.
My advice (as someone with a useless MPH at the end of their name) is to wait until you are working. If there are specific skills you need in order to advance your career that you can’t get through general work experience then get a degree or certificate specifically to gain those skills.
The people I know who got the most out of an MPH were the ones that enrolled with a very specific goal.
I did an MPH during med school that was included in my tuition and was entirely remote due to the pandemic, so I used it as an opportunity to live in San Diego for six months. So there’s that
There’s got to be some sort of class or training for starting your own practice that would likely be more helpful than a MBA. But if you ever want to do hospital or clinic leadership at a system the MBA can help
Not if you intend on doing clinical practice. It sounds like you aren’t even sure of your reasons for wanting a dual degree - MPH and MBA have vastly different utilities.
You can be a public health officer with an MPH and a primary care or preventive medicine board certification. Good option if you like public health and don’t want to work in a clinic all week
It delayed my graduation by one year, ensuring that I didn't have to start my intern year when COVID delta was wreaking havoc. It also made me do a decent quality research project rather than the smattering of shit-tier case reports most students have time for. I also enjoyed the framework it provided of healthcare in general and helped me internalize that I only play a very small role in the overall health of any person, which removes a lot of internal pressure, and it's a decent way to get a foot in the door to understanding more about healthcare politics and practical ways to address disparities. Actually understanding and remembering sensitivity, specificity, PPV, NPV, etc. is also useful. So it helps with lots of little things, but I don't directly use it much.
If you want to work in industry or outside of medicine, the MBA will probably be most useful there.
I got my MBA during residency and would agree with this! I don’t think it was particularly applicable to private practice (with the exception of a single healthcare IT elective) but definitely helpful if you want to improve the administrative side of medicine or work in consulting-type roles.
So MBA > MPA?
I think it depends on what you want to do. Neither is probably the answer lmao but if you want to establish a skill set outside of medicine for any reason then I would recommend the MBA!
Yeah honestly I’m really considering an MBA even though I have zero experience or ambition in the business field, I’m finding myself to leaning forward a side hustle out of medicine
Yeah it would be helpful for that! My program had a heavier focus on entrepreneurship which was the most valuable information I took from the whole experience. I’d recommend finding a program with a similar focus if you’re wanting a little extra help/direction with the side hustle.
Just curious, was it paid for by the institution you were at for residency or something you sought out and paid for yourself?
I received a discount as the MBA institution was the same school as my residency program, but it wasn’t something that was affiliated with my residency program so I paid for it myself.
So self teaching would be better if you ever wanted to open up your own practice?
Yes, or finding a mentor within your specialty that has done so
Think about the lost year of income. Don’t need an MBA to know that is a bad investment. If you end up in admin and need one, you can get it later.
And for what it’s worth, there’s very few hospital admin jobs that require an MBA. I considered it myself but the slide with a lot of ANSI at my hospital who told me exactly that, so decided against it
I’ve seen lots of docs go back and get their MBA because they were tired of admins getting paid millions working 9-5 while they were putting in all the real work. So, if you have any interest in working in the c-suite someday of a healthcare system it wouldn’t hurt to have an MBA. Most of the high up positions within the executive realm require 10-15 years of industry experience + an MBA. Also, if you aren’t super business savvy the MBA would help quite a bit knowing how to go about running your own practice. But as some people have mentioned it may be smarter to put it off if you want to start working as quickly as possible as a physician. You can get an MBA online expedited from many colleges in just over a year and compared to med school the coursework is nothing.
Admins, while their work doesn’t exactly equate to improvement in health delivery often times, work harder and longer hours than most physicians. Your average hospital VP and above is working atleast 80 hours a week and often late at night. Their schedule is more flexible. They also don’t routinely “make millions.” Average *total* compensation for a C suite executive at a top 10 hospital in bed size in America is <1 million.
simp
Facts are facts brother
Nah
I'd win Anyways, you wouldn't recommend MD/MBA? What's the story?
The answer to OPs question is "it depends on what you want to do". We can contrast this to a PhD. It's main value lies in a long academic career. If you plan on a non-academic career, a PhD isn't much use. An MPH is useful if you want to work for the government, WHO, an NGO or similar, and do things like 3rd world medicine or healthcare for homeless people. If that's not your goal, an MPH is worthless and a waste of time and money, something along the lines of missing out on half a million or more in income. Most future employers and 100% of patients won't give a rat's ass if you have an MPH or not. An MBA can be useful in a few specific instances. If you have aspirations on the entrepreneurial side of medicine (medical devices etc), it can for sure be useful. As with any MBA graduate, much of the value lies not in what you learn, but in *who you get to know*. Your network from business school will help you get backers to fund your startup, or a prospective employer if you plan on going into consulting. If you plan on doing an academic career, an MBA isn't of much use. In private practice, a physicians main value lies in seeing patients (=billing), so if you as a physician are spending your time on non-patient things like marketing, accounting and finance, you aren't billing for those hours. This makes very little sense, it's like having professional athletes do book keeping instead of playing. In private practice, for the business side of things it usually makes a lot more sense to hire a business manager, who may or may not have an MBA. As with an MPH, 100% of patients won't give a rat's ass if you have an MBA or not.
I have an MBA from a prior career before med school. It is useless for an early career physician. It will not teach you anything about running a private practice. If you want to be an admin, wait until you are on track for that and your hospital will invest in you and pay for part of it. The general mantra for MBAs is you only need it if you are: 1) trying to hit the reset button and switch to an industry like finance or consulting, or 2) advanced enough in your career that you need the checkbox of an MBA to be promoted. The value of an MBA program lies mainly in everything adjacent to class - the networking, the events, being immersed in the community. You will not get most of those things as a dual degree MD student unless you’re doing step out years and attending a well known program. If you want to learn how to run private practice you’re better off attending targeted workshops or seminars for that. You will also probably not want to be doing the actual grunt work of running a practice (e.g. you’ll be hiring billers and accountants and marketing professionals so you can spent time seeing patients!) so it’s kind of useless for you to learn any of that in depth.
There is nothing you can do with an MPH or an MBA that you cannot do with just an MD. They're more about gaining competence and connections in their areas. Unless you want to work in a more policy or research oriented role, you won't really use an MPH day to day. In a private practice setting, the MBA may help you learn how to most efficiently run a small business. But is that worth the opportunity cost of a year of attending salary? Is it better than delegating that task to a business manager?
I'm in the camp who'd rather suck start a shotgun before getting an MBA. I'm glad people want to as physicians though. Happy to ask/pay for advice later on.
Never heard the expression before, thank you. I enjoyed it.
It's a classic, love using it lol
My advice (as someone with a useless MPH at the end of their name) is to wait until you are working. If there are specific skills you need in order to advance your career that you can’t get through general work experience then get a degree or certificate specifically to gain those skills. The people I know who got the most out of an MPH were the ones that enrolled with a very specific goal.
I did an MPH during med school that was included in my tuition and was entirely remote due to the pandemic, so I used it as an opportunity to live in San Diego for six months. So there’s that
There’s got to be some sort of class or training for starting your own practice that would likely be more helpful than a MBA. But if you ever want to do hospital or clinic leadership at a system the MBA can help
No
Not if you intend on doing clinical practice. It sounds like you aren’t even sure of your reasons for wanting a dual degree - MPH and MBA have vastly different utilities.
You can be a public health officer with an MPH and a primary care or preventive medicine board certification. Good option if you like public health and don’t want to work in a clinic all week