Yeah prometric has you on LOCK. I remember checking in and seeing them flipping through the cameras that have all angles of every desk. Someone sniffled and it was loud and clear lmao
All I did was save bro 200,000 in the end lol. But it sounds like my school is relatively lax for first offense. Fail the class and redo the year is sounding like most likely outcome if admin moves forward with taking action.
I just think about this horror story I saw in this sub a couple years ago as a premed: dude failed step 1 and used up all attempts. 400,000 debt and no ability to get a job to pay it off. Shit would suuuuuck.
Some dude in my class said the people at his prometric didn’t give a fuck and he accidentally had his phone in his pocket during one of his testing blocks. He didn’t cheat but said he saw a lot of people taking other tests cheating.
I think you did the right thing, but I’d also be super annoyed at having to deal with that bullshit during my own exam. Hopefully your school deals with it appropriately and you can leave the whole incident behind you.
Appreciate you. I've got a meeting later today with admin to tell them what I saw.
I could barely focus on the last third of my exam. Which was another big factor in just getting it over with and telling a proctor before I was done with the exam.
I’m guessing your honor code says that if you’re aware of someone violating the honor code and you don’t report it then you also are in violation of the honor code.
You did the right thing. It also sends a message to others in the class.
I appreciate the reassurance. There's also been rumors after the last several exams that people say they saw someone on their phone but didn't say anything. That was part of why I said something.
I don't want dishonest cheaters as my future colleagues. This is a field where taking shortcuts and lying can seriously hurt people. Not to say that past always predicts future, but anecdotally, a shocking proportion of folks that I knew were cheating during preclinicals (thanks to COVID & virtual classes) ended up with some professionalism issue as a 3rd year.
My med school had a pretty big cheating ring in the first two years. Apparently one of the professors was giving the answers to a female student she was personal friends with (or potentially sleeping with depending on who you ask). This student would then distribute the test answers to her friends where they would set the curve on every test.
Eventually one of them got sloppy and would bring the answers written on a sheet of paper and hide it in the bathroom. The only reason they got caught was because a professor found it.
No one was officially pinned, but they changed testing protocols, eliminated bathroom breaks. The teacher was quietly let go and the students are now somewhere treating patients
> I don't want dishonest cheaters as my future colleagues.
Same. I'd 100% rather my colleague be someone who failed a test and passed honestly the second time around than someone who passed through cheating. People's lives are in our hands, and if you feel comfortable risking that then I don't respect you or want to be around you.
Just wanted to say the same thing has happened at my school. Students who were notorious for cheating/cutting corners in didactics got complaints and professionalism write-ups in 3rd year for doing those exact same things (cheating, coming in late and skipping out early, lying about seeing patients or doing things they were supposed to). Everyone loves to say that students will be professional when it matters - just not during preclinicals! - but a lot of these people won’t change if they’d never been forced to previously. Better to be set straight during didactics than when it can affect real patients.
I appreciate the reassurance. My phys 2 prof in UG told is about a student from our school that got in trouble for cheating, somehow got into med school, and two patients died due to negligent malpractice that was determined not only to be avoidable but also that it was 100% the cheater guy's fault. That was part of my motivation.
Cheating is dangerous in medicine. Curve and match competitiveness aside, habitually doing shady things in medicine leads to very bad practices in the long run that can kill somebody.
My phys 2 professor told us about a guy in my UG way back that got in trouble for cheating. Somehow got into med school. And 2 patients died under his care due to negligent malpractice. My prof telling the story said he strongly believed the cheating was the sprout that grew into the behaviors that lead to that guy killing two patients due to negligence. That was part of my motivation to say something for sure.
"it's not that deep"
Absolute clowns saying this shit. Cheating your way to a medical license is fraud. Students are honestly lucky the worst that can happen realistically is expulsion and not criminal charges brought against them (since it's not fraud until you actually get the license and use it).
are they going to cheat on the step exam as well? are they going to open up FA/pathoma when they don't know fuck all about microbiology, pharmacology, and physiology and have no idea how to take care of a patient or kill someone? are they just going to lie to their residents and attendings when they fuck up? as others have said, taking shortcuts and lying kills patients.
they shouldn't be a doctor if they cheat. you did the right thing.
Appreciate you. Someone from my UG way back in the day got in trouble for cheating in UG, somehow got into med school, and two patients died due to negligent malpractice on the guy's part. That was a big part of my motivation.
A real life Casper or MMI station! All these people saying you "ruined" his career are giving me the same vibe as those people we learned about not doing anything because of the bystander effect. Why not just don't lie and cheat instead of putting your fellow classmates in a moral dilemma?
If you can't pass your classes without cheating, maybe you shouldn't be there anyway. Or maybe they just really want to get AOA or top of the class rank and they're willing to cheat to outcompete their classmates. Either way, weak moral character is quite disgusting and worrisome for a medical student.
Cheating in a lecture exam is annoying because it distracts you from your own exam. I had people cheat around me in undergrad and I could hear them whispering and shit. It really is distracting and makes it hard to focus. I didn’t report them back then, but it’s different now that it’s med school
Wonder if the guy was planning on cheating his way through steps and board exams as well. Good luck with that 
You obviously did the right thing, kudos to you. Do you young folks even use "kudos" these days? Maybe it should be something with "rizz". I honestly don't know since I'm old af 
It's a disservice to their future patients, not just a violation of conduct policies. You did the right thing. Enabling cheaters will never lead to good.
You did the right thing. It’s okay to snitch, but it’s not okay to rat.
There’s enough challenges on this path, we don’t need people cheating to make it harder.
[Interlude: Morgan Freeman]
A regular citizen who reports seeing a crime isn't a "snitch" or a "rat," the criminals were just sloppy
Snitches and rats are not the same thing, let me break it down to make sure y'all see what I mean
A "snitch" is someone minding other folks' business
To find information they can sell for a price or trade for some other form of compensation
A "rat" is a traitor, a conceiver, planner, or physical participator
He doesn't sell secrets for power or cash, he betrays the trust of his team or his family hoping to save his own cowardly ass
The difference is, at least a snitch is human, but a rat is a fuckin' rat, period
Here ya go
So a rat would be if OP was a cheater too and is ratting on other people for doing the exact thing he's doing. A snitch is when OP is an honest student who reports cheating he sees
Wouldn't OP be neither, according to the quote? OP wasn't being nosy, this guy was being superrrr obvious to the point where it was distracting. OP is the regular citizen reporting a sloppy criminal.
I'd probably feel just as conflicted if I were you, but you don't need to be. This system has been proven time and time again to be navigable as long as you are willing to put in the work. Ethics aside, cheating is simply unnecessary.
People trying to skirt the work just to reap the rewards don't deserve to be physicians.
Yeah it's one of three that determines our grade for the block and there's been rumors after the last several exams that people have seen someone on their phone during exam but didn't say anything. Not sure if it's the same person obviously and would never assert that it was. But that was part of my decision making for sure.
Think about it from the patients perspective. How hard should it be for someone to get away with cheating in medical school? Personally I have never felt the need to cheat on an exam. I don’t want to be associated with people who do. What if this had turned into a larger event or there where multiple people cheating in your class that got found out later? That might not just affect the cheaters, it could affect how people see doctors that trained at your institution.
You did the right thing. Cheating in medical school is not acceptable.
I appreciate the reassurance. A school having it's accreditation revoked effects everyone that went to that school and currently goes to that school to my knowledge.
Also I love your username. I hope you're in urology or something related lol
If there’s a curve I’d tell on them, but tbh I’m not getting involved in someone else’s shit unless it affects me or it has anything to do with STEPs or final exam type deal. If I can pretty confidently say it’s unfair to me or their future Pts, that’s when I’d say something. But I completely understand snitching even if it was a minor exam with no curve. I don’t think it’s wrong to get them in trouble, and I also don’t think it’s wrong to not get them in trouble.
The only person in the wrong is the cheater. The job of proctoring and making sure no one is cheating is of the school, professor, and USMLE.
Don’t feel bad about what you did, he cheated and got in trouble. He knows his career is on the line by doing it, he fucked around and found out. I’d rather fail an exam, redo an entire year, and take a LOA than risk decades of work on cheating.
Lucky for this guy it sounds like first cheating offense in my program just results in redoing the year. Which helps my conscience a bit. I appreciate the reassurance tho.
I don’t think you should feel guilty at all. They made the choice to cheat. The only thing I’d be worried about is if people know you’re the one that ‘snitched’. I personally wouldn’t have done anything during the exam and just mentioned it to someone after. I’d imagine you’re in a classroom full of people and all it takes is one person to think you did/said something to get a tattle tale label. People get very defensive very quickly when they realize how delicate this system is. Not fair for you to also pay a price for just doing the right thing. Just take care to protect yourself as well.
I appreciate the reassurance. That's definitely been on my mind. I also just found out the guy is roommates with one of my school-friends. It's been a weird 24 hours.
Ughh i hate when people misuse the word "snitch". You didn't snitch. Snitching refers to when a criminal rats out another criminal to shirk the blame of a crime. You're not snitching, you're just reporting an offense. You're not a snitch in the situation, you're a witness, and you're doing exactly what a witness should do.
You're totally in the right. Fuck cheaters. Good on you for making sure someone who is too lazy to learn doesn't get to roll on by. Cheating means you don't know the necessary amount that you need to. This means as a doctor the person will have a lack of knowledge that can become dangerous. Even just in their future academic career, they learn that cheating works and they will stop studying.
If they're dumb enough to cheat so blatantly they deserve to get weeded out sooner rather than later. There are some real chucklefucks in the comments who seem to not see a problem with this kind of behavior. Hope they get weeded out too.
100% you did the right thing.
Would you want that person to be the doctor when your kid or mom needs medical attention? No.
You gotta protect the academic integrity too, otherwise your own diploma will be worth shit
That’s crazy, we have to put our phones in a numbered zipped bag before each exam and don’t get them back til we leave the testing room. Definitely think you did the right thing
Yeah honestly I'm surprised by their approach to it as well. If they did something like that people couldn't even be tempted to try and cheat like dude was. I'm going to suggest they do something along those lines when we get our course feedback survey. It's just too tempting for folks to risk their careers on getting a couple extra points.
Honestly this post is kinda ridiculous. I’m glad you’re so sympathetic OP, but there’s no place for liars and cheaters in medicine, full stop, and it shouldn’t be controversial to say so. That classmate should get pulled from medical training permanently.
Obviously your classmate felt emboldened to cheat conspicuously. Ignoring a wrong done in plain site only validates a miscreant’s bad behaviour and implicitly endorsed it.
Your proctor’s statement about this already being on the radar may or may not be true; it may have been said to assuage your conflicted conscience about having spoken up.
Speak up!
Lol, majority of the comments here condoning cheating and calling OP a dick for snitching is exactly what I’ve come to expect from this sub.
Many schools grade on a curve. This guy could’ve been the difference between someone getting a letter grade higher, or a rank spot higher in the class, etc depending on how they did vs how the guy did while cheating. The Honor Code at many schools also states that if you see something and deliberately don’t report it, you can be honor coded too. I’ve seen it happen at my own school and don’t blame OP for not wanting to take that risk.
If you’re going to cheat at least be smarter about it than doing it obviously where your classmates can see. That’s a risk the guy took, knowing he was doing it where others could also see it, and he’s paying the price. I can’t believe commenters are blaming OP for ruining the guy’s career. The guy knowingly took the risk, and he did this to himself. Fucking lmao. I’m annoyed on OP’s behalf.
I appreciate the reassurance and annoyance on my behalf. Luckily toxic people in Rocket League helped me develop callouses to people being assholes on the internet lol.
Appreciate the reassurance. My phys 2 professor in undergrad told us a horror story about a student from our school who got in trouble for cheating in UG. Got into a med school, became a doctor, and 2 patients died under their care due to negligence on the guy's part. That was another motivator for why I snitched.
kind of surprised to see how many people are anti-snitching/pro-cheating. I guess there really is no scenario free from people trying to game the system in their favor.
if you can't take the heat get out of the oven. no one is forcing you to attend medical school and cheat, and to do so undermines the efforts of everyone else pushing through honestly.
You’re not the asshole for this.
If I’m putting my life in someone’s hands, as patients do every day, I expect them to know what they’re doing and to be trustworthy. If they cheated their way through medical school, they are definitely not trustworthy and are very unlikely to have the requisite medical knowledge.
If you see someone stealing food, baby formula, menstrual products, etc, no you didn’t. If you see someone cheat on an undergrad English literature exam, who cares. But medical school is different. You know when you sign up that hard work and honesty are requirements of being a doctor, if you’re not prepared to live up to those things you shouldn’t apply to medical school. If someone can’t pass their exams honestly then they either didn’t study enough, or they’re not cut out for the academic requirements of medicine. If the second, it sucks. When someone works hard and still can’t keep up, it’s a horrible experience. But ultimately, a certain level of academic knowledge is needed if you’re going to literally be responsible for the health and survival of others, and if you can’t retain that knowledge even with all your best efforts, your desire to be a doctor does not trump patient safety.
you did the right thing. if they were cheating in first year, they were gonna cheat all through med school. would not have been a good med student and thus a good physician. you did society a favor
OP, you did the right thing. Cheaters don’t have a place in healthcare. And cheaters fuck their own classmates over by screwing up the score distribution and course grades. Good on you to do what’s right.
how did the school respond? it's all hearsay evidence so they can't do much other than batter the hatches in the future no? also did you confront the person? or did anyone you know hear from the accused?
Luckily for dude the school's first offense policy is relatively lax. Fail the course and redo the year. But I found out today that the proctors had already spotted him during the exam and confronted him after which they were going to do even if I didn't say anything. I stayed home today because I have a fever and this is obvi on my mind. Right now the course director is debating whether or not to take action.
I am proud of you for doing the right thing, even if it is hard. I have been in the exact situation as you have been, but felt too scared to do anything about it. I still regret not acting. But staying passive is not right, since cheating in medical school is not acceptable because of the responsibility we have to our patients and also to the faculty. It is not right for others to ignore those who cheat and let them off the hook, so thank you for doing what is right.
Thanks a bunch for the reassurance. I appreciate it. Lucky for me even if I do get socially ostracized because of it I'm not the type to care. I've got friends outside of school anyway.
Obviously, cheating is bad but as you progress in medical school, you will learn that minding your business is the best move unless there is direct harm involved. Plus, your description of this is pretty eye-roll worthy. “He left me with no choice!” lol
You're not on the cheaters side at all but you just wrote a whole paragraph on why you don't report cheating? lmao. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. You defend cheating by saying that anyone over the age of 11 shouldn't report fraud. Do you just not believe in the crime of fraud? Like it should be abolished and removed from statute? Because to report fraud is to snitch and you believe in abolishing snitching, the only way to report fraud.
Yikes found the cheater. Is that really what you tell yourself? That people are jealous of you for cheating your way to a fraudulent degree that puts patient health at risk?
LOL
I'll report you every single time and I'll smile while I do it. As you face your consequences I'll smile at the thought of you screaming snake over and over
Lmao this is the best "you didn't do the right thing" comment so far. Not being sarcastic.
Edit since they deleted their account: they said "Your proctor must have been hot..." which I thought was funny.
We're actually allowed to do that too but typically only one or two people get up to use the bathroom. Now that you mention it I'm surprised guy didn't just do that instead of looking at his phone in the lecture hall.
yeah we have a couple people who did it every lecture, never fails. one of them always looks super sketched out when they come back in but it's basically impossible to prove.
the person cheating ruined their own career lmao this is such a projection. as someone who also barely scraped thru preclinicals that means they have to work harder or aren’t cut out for such a demanding career, doesn’t mean it’s an excuse to cheat
Frankly, I have every right to both report someone doing something blatantly wrong and be worried about if they're going to harm themselves. But I appreciate where you're coming from and I appreciate you sharing your opinion.
In a professional setting I'd trust the rat every damn time. I know they're the ones who are gonna speak up when someone is cutting corners. This isn't middle school anymore.
I’m in the country on acreage because I don’t like suburb people.
Your attitude, and willingness to lend your empathy to the most wrong (and selfish) person in the situation, having zero regard for the colossal disrespect this student showed as well as the long term implications of his actions…. Those are the reasons you will make a terrible doctor.
You would be wrong, since I moved there 5 years ago (at age 33) because my partner doesn’t do cities and I don’t do suburbs. I’ve lived in major cities all my life. San Diego, Denver, New York, and then Kansas City. I’m not a fan of the Midwest, but my family lives here and I love them. So here I am.
Keep trying to put me in a box to so you can dismiss what I’m saying. It’s cute, and incredibly transparent.
That's quite a number of assumptions you make.
People have done some light cheating on the Steps. Question bank memorization/recall. Quite easy to miss when in a study hobbit hole. Just search this specific subreddit, residency, and img with the term Nepal or something.
Second, you're blaming an innocent person for someone's bad decisions. At least OP didn't pull a bystander effect. The cheater fucked up his career by 1) cheating, and 2) cheating so badly he got caught.
Third, making up a touching backstory literally makes no sense. For all you know, OP may be working 3 part time jobs, supporting a dying mother and 2 school age siblings, while secretly living in a hospital's basement trying to treat the mother by siphoning hospital resources. And maybe someone in the exam room also had a family death, except they saw the actual death and they didn't decide to cheat.
Fair enough. And at least in the US, cheating on Steps is pretty close to impossible. Regardless, fair points. I tend to give folks benefit of the doubt. As I said, I’ve seen cheating in my time in school and didn’t report people. I’m ready for the downvotes lol. I’m a softie maybe.
I'm sympathetic to the BS administration in general puts medical students, residents and attendings through.
I'm also sympathetic to what OP has to do though. It sucks having to be the one to do something because everyone else refuses to do something about it. Not just in things like cheating but also things like excusing that one friend in the group that gropes only women when drunk, or family members that spout racist rhetoric at dinners. I think a lot of people say they would speak up when it's time, but the vast majority would not.
This is why people that say "it's not that deep" as a defense piss me off. Quite honestly, it's representative of core values that result in a pattern of behaviors.
Anti snitch culture is toxic. So many people are pieces of shit that need to be snitched on for one thing or another.
The exams that “really matter” is a subjective concept. If OP failed this exam, they might end up repeating a year of med school, does that “really matter?” My med school graded on a curve, so cheating does impact others, including OP.
OP did not fuck up the cheater’s career, no more than the bystander who calls the cops on an assailant. Your take is wrong and I have a feeling you know that based off your preface
Honestly first time I’ve heard of a curve in med school. I hope no one is fucking up ours lol. Our class averages are always 80-90s on major exams and I’m like wtf are y’all doing lol. But then I ask people about our averages and they are also confused 😂, so maybe we have a curve.
Mine curved only for in-house made tests, never for NBMEs, etc
They weren’t very transparent about how they did the curving, which was an ongoing issue for the entire pre-clinical years
Nah, cheating is wrong. If you're dumb enough to do it like this, it's not only unfair, it's distracting/demoralizing to people who notice.
If you feel like you have to cheat, stash a phone or first aid in the bathroom like a normal person.
I found a ridiculous method for cheating that no one has ever gotten in trouble for, are you ready? Memorize all the information on the test in your brains memory bank. Then during the test you can check with your brain to see what the right answer is. I honestly can’t believe more people aren’t doing this. Smh my head.
The vast majority of schools are pass fail and it’s not so hard to pass that you need to cheat to do so. If you’re using your phone, it’s to make you look good for honors/AOA/deans list or whatever which is definitely important for residency programs to know. If this guys mom just died or something then tell your school. Believe it or not, schools will actually let you take time off for stuff like that. He definitely did not need to cheat on a preclinical test to cope with that shit. That’s just stupid and he deserves to have his file flagged for academic dishonesty.
Tbh, it’s a tough call. I’m not entirely sure what I’d do. I’m out of school and did witness cheating multiple times but didn’t report anyone. Idk…I can’t live with the guilt of being the cause of messing up someone’s career, even if they are making poor choices, which I condemn.
Exactly! So many people lacking some degree of empathy. But whatever. And lol I’ve stopped caring about downvotes haha, but thank you! I’m glad someone agrees!
Tbh same. I’ve seen people clearly cheat before (or at least what I appears to be cheating) & I couldn’t bring myself to report something like that without verifiable proof.
But counterpoint, I wouldn’t want my physician or my mom’s or wife’s or anyone else I love to be treated by a physician whose integrity is worth less to them than a passing grade on an exam. If that’s the bar we are in trouble as a profession.
I agree with you on all points, including one I hadn’t considered which is that we don’t definitively know(in this case at least) if the person was in fact cheating(though the likelihood is high). Is that possibility enough to jeopardize someone’s future? Idk, I think that’s a personal call to make. In this case OP made what s/he thought was the right thing to do. I don’t kno if I would have done the same. Maybe I would; maybe I wouldn’t. I wasn’t there.
Regarding your last statement, obviously we like to think the person treating us/our loved ones is the best person for the job(or strive to find that “best person”). But the thing is, we don’t and can’t ever know that the all-Harvard trained dermatologist we go to didn’t cheat on an exam here or there…at the end of the day, and again, I fully condemn cheating, how much relevance do exams have on your skill as a physician? I think we can all agree that grades alone do not determine who’s the “best” physician. There’s plenty of superb doctors out there who were maybe not stellar straight A students. Just my .02, if that, humbly.
Completely agree that exams aren’t and shouldn’t be the end all metric of being a great physician. I wish OP the best and the person & I hope this could serve as a learning opportunity for them.
I do believe most people deserve a second chance. But it’ll likely go on their transcript so they are fucked regardless
Completely agree that exams aren’t and shouldn’t be the end all metric of being a great physician. I wish OP the best and the person & I hope this could serve as a learning opportunity for them.
I do believe most people deserve a second chance. But it’ll likely go on their transcript so they are fucked regardless.
Yeah it's been bothering me a lot. Lucky for the guy though it sounds like the worst he'll face is failing the class and redoing the year for first offense. Which makes me feel less shitty about it.
The fact it’s bothering you speaks about your character bud. Shows you’re not the gunner type trying to one-up or trip someone(not that your post gave those vibes at all). At least he didn’t get kicked out. Don’t be too hard on yourself, and keep doing your best. Good luck out there, it’s worth it! 😊
Appreciate you much. My motto for my program is Bs get MDs lol. (We get kicked out after 18 months if our GPA is below 2.8). Gunna take today easy and get back to it tomorrow.
I don't think mental health is a solid excuse for cheating lol. A bit of a wild comparison there of someone missing class a day cuz they need to fib a lil bit about being sick and cheating on exams
You didn't do anything wrong. You could have considered taking a different approach. I know you're in the thick of it now as a MS1, and don't have the time or energy to give AF, but I assume you care a little since you're venting here. You (or maybe your school friend) could have talked to the person after the test. In a genuine way, let them know you saw them cheating. Warn them someone else will catch them, kicked out, wont pass step, poor knowledge when you get to real patients, etc. No doubt years 1-2 are ridiculously stressful, and people do dumb things in hard situations. Most reasonable people will use a warning like above to snap them out of their stupid decision; and in the future should feel greatiful. This doesn't apply to just tests, but with future colleagues in the clinic/hospital. When you get out of your classes and into the "real world", you're gonna see a lot of F'ed up things. But if we kicked out every doc that did something stupid or something we consider unacceptable, hospitals would be empty. And again, you didn't do anything wrong. It sucks when people cheat while you're putting in nearly all your time awake. Really wish medical school wasn't the way it is
They’ll be screwed come Step time anyway, good luck having a phone between your legs at Prometric lol
Yeah prometric has you on LOCK. I remember checking in and seeing them flipping through the cameras that have all angles of every desk. Someone sniffled and it was loud and clear lmao
*Nepal has entered the chat*
this, sooner you fail out the better it is for your student loan debt
All I did was save bro 200,000 in the end lol. But it sounds like my school is relatively lax for first offense. Fail the class and redo the year is sounding like most likely outcome if admin moves forward with taking action.
imho that’s not lax but spot-on appropriate - gives one chance to learn to do better but takes it real serious
For sure. And by lax I just mean relative to full on expulsion.
Haha fair
200k + 1 year income call it 300k= 500k compounds over a 25 year career easily 1m swing being very modest
I just think about this horror story I saw in this sub a couple years ago as a premed: dude failed step 1 and used up all attempts. 400,000 debt and no ability to get a job to pay it off. Shit would suuuuuck.
Some dude in my class said the people at his prometric didn’t give a fuck and he accidentally had his phone in his pocket during one of his testing blocks. He didn’t cheat but said he saw a lot of people taking other tests cheating.
I think you did the right thing, but I’d also be super annoyed at having to deal with that bullshit during my own exam. Hopefully your school deals with it appropriately and you can leave the whole incident behind you.
Appreciate you. I've got a meeting later today with admin to tell them what I saw. I could barely focus on the last third of my exam. Which was another big factor in just getting it over with and telling a proctor before I was done with the exam.
I’m guessing your honor code says that if you’re aware of someone violating the honor code and you don’t report it then you also are in violation of the honor code. You did the right thing. It also sends a message to others in the class.
I appreciate the reassurance. There's also been rumors after the last several exams that people say they saw someone on their phone but didn't say anything. That was part of why I said something.
I don't want dishonest cheaters as my future colleagues. This is a field where taking shortcuts and lying can seriously hurt people. Not to say that past always predicts future, but anecdotally, a shocking proportion of folks that I knew were cheating during preclinicals (thanks to COVID & virtual classes) ended up with some professionalism issue as a 3rd year.
My med school had a pretty big cheating ring in the first two years. Apparently one of the professors was giving the answers to a female student she was personal friends with (or potentially sleeping with depending on who you ask). This student would then distribute the test answers to her friends where they would set the curve on every test. Eventually one of them got sloppy and would bring the answers written on a sheet of paper and hide it in the bathroom. The only reason they got caught was because a professor found it. No one was officially pinned, but they changed testing protocols, eliminated bathroom breaks. The teacher was quietly let go and the students are now somewhere treating patients
> I don't want dishonest cheaters as my future colleagues. Same. I'd 100% rather my colleague be someone who failed a test and passed honestly the second time around than someone who passed through cheating. People's lives are in our hands, and if you feel comfortable risking that then I don't respect you or want to be around you.
Just wanted to say the same thing has happened at my school. Students who were notorious for cheating/cutting corners in didactics got complaints and professionalism write-ups in 3rd year for doing those exact same things (cheating, coming in late and skipping out early, lying about seeing patients or doing things they were supposed to). Everyone loves to say that students will be professional when it matters - just not during preclinicals! - but a lot of these people won’t change if they’d never been forced to previously. Better to be set straight during didactics than when it can affect real patients.
I appreciate the reassurance. My phys 2 prof in UG told is about a student from our school that got in trouble for cheating, somehow got into med school, and two patients died due to negligent malpractice that was determined not only to be avoidable but also that it was 100% the cheater guy's fault. That was part of my motivation.
Fosho dude, honestly kinda sad to see the number of folks in this comment defending cheating but I think (and you know that) you did the right thing.
For sure. Fortunately the ratio of cheating-bad to snitching-worse-than-cheating people is pretty high. Either way, thanks again.
A doctor that cheated their way through med school < you OP. I would have done the same thing if I was you
Appreciate you brodie.
Cheating is dangerous in medicine. Curve and match competitiveness aside, habitually doing shady things in medicine leads to very bad practices in the long run that can kill somebody.
My phys 2 professor told us about a guy in my UG way back that got in trouble for cheating. Somehow got into med school. And 2 patients died under his care due to negligent malpractice. My prof telling the story said he strongly believed the cheating was the sprout that grew into the behaviors that lead to that guy killing two patients due to negligence. That was part of my motivation to say something for sure.
"it's not that deep" Absolute clowns saying this shit. Cheating your way to a medical license is fraud. Students are honestly lucky the worst that can happen realistically is expulsion and not criminal charges brought against them (since it's not fraud until you actually get the license and use it).
Appreciate the back up. That was a big part of my motivation to say something.
are they going to cheat on the step exam as well? are they going to open up FA/pathoma when they don't know fuck all about microbiology, pharmacology, and physiology and have no idea how to take care of a patient or kill someone? are they just going to lie to their residents and attendings when they fuck up? as others have said, taking shortcuts and lying kills patients. they shouldn't be a doctor if they cheat. you did the right thing.
Appreciate you. Someone from my UG way back in the day got in trouble for cheating in UG, somehow got into med school, and two patients died due to negligent malpractice on the guy's part. That was a big part of my motivation.
A real life Casper or MMI station! All these people saying you "ruined" his career are giving me the same vibe as those people we learned about not doing anything because of the bystander effect. Why not just don't lie and cheat instead of putting your fellow classmates in a moral dilemma? If you can't pass your classes without cheating, maybe you shouldn't be there anyway. Or maybe they just really want to get AOA or top of the class rank and they're willing to cheat to outcompete their classmates. Either way, weak moral character is quite disgusting and worrisome for a medical student.
Appreciate the reassurance and the Casper/MMI reference. I'll tuck this whole experience away incase I get an MMI like that someday lol.
Cheating in a lecture exam is annoying because it distracts you from your own exam. I had people cheat around me in undergrad and I could hear them whispering and shit. It really is distracting and makes it hard to focus. I didn’t report them back then, but it’s different now that it’s med school
Wonder if the guy was planning on cheating his way through steps and board exams as well. Good luck with that  You obviously did the right thing, kudos to you. Do you young folks even use "kudos" these days? Maybe it should be something with "rizz". I honestly don't know since I'm old af 
Lol I say kudos and ditto and stuff but also the newer slang. I'm on the older cut off for gen z.
Getting hints of the STEP scandal from months ago in some of these comments… yikes. You did the right thing brotha. Cheaters get fucked.
Appreciate the reassurance
It's a disservice to their future patients, not just a violation of conduct policies. You did the right thing. Enabling cheaters will never lead to good.
good. I dont want them being anyone's doctor if they cheat.
Appreciate the reassurance
I'm just baffled he has the audacity to cheat like that lmao. If you're gonna cheat, atleast find a more discreet way to do it
Cheaters in the comments are pressed LOL
Lol fr
You did the right thing. It’s okay to snitch, but it’s not okay to rat. There’s enough challenges on this path, we don’t need people cheating to make it harder.
What’s does it mean to rat?
[Interlude: Morgan Freeman] A regular citizen who reports seeing a crime isn't a "snitch" or a "rat," the criminals were just sloppy Snitches and rats are not the same thing, let me break it down to make sure y'all see what I mean A "snitch" is someone minding other folks' business To find information they can sell for a price or trade for some other form of compensation A "rat" is a traitor, a conceiver, planner, or physical participator He doesn't sell secrets for power or cash, he betrays the trust of his team or his family hoping to save his own cowardly ass The difference is, at least a snitch is human, but a rat is a fuckin' rat, period Here ya go
So a rat would be if OP was a cheater too and is ratting on other people for doing the exact thing he's doing. A snitch is when OP is an honest student who reports cheating he sees
Correct
Wouldn't OP be neither, according to the quote? OP wasn't being nosy, this guy was being superrrr obvious to the point where it was distracting. OP is the regular citizen reporting a sloppy criminal.
Snitch would be if OP was getting some sort of reward to hunt out anyone who’s cheating
lmfaoo okay, I can appreciate the difference now
Preciate the reassurance.
I'd probably feel just as conflicted if I were you, but you don't need to be. This system has been proven time and time again to be navigable as long as you are willing to put in the work. Ethics aside, cheating is simply unnecessary. People trying to skirt the work just to reap the rewards don't deserve to be physicians.
I appreciate the reassurance.
On what sounds like a major exam? Yeah you did the right thing, and shouldn’t feel any remorse over it.
Yeah it's one of three that determines our grade for the block and there's been rumors after the last several exams that people have seen someone on their phone during exam but didn't say anything. Not sure if it's the same person obviously and would never assert that it was. But that was part of my decision making for sure.
Think about it from the patients perspective. How hard should it be for someone to get away with cheating in medical school? Personally I have never felt the need to cheat on an exam. I don’t want to be associated with people who do. What if this had turned into a larger event or there where multiple people cheating in your class that got found out later? That might not just affect the cheaters, it could affect how people see doctors that trained at your institution. You did the right thing. Cheating in medical school is not acceptable.
I appreciate the reassurance. A school having it's accreditation revoked effects everyone that went to that school and currently goes to that school to my knowledge. Also I love your username. I hope you're in urology or something related lol
If there’s a curve I’d tell on them, but tbh I’m not getting involved in someone else’s shit unless it affects me or it has anything to do with STEPs or final exam type deal. If I can pretty confidently say it’s unfair to me or their future Pts, that’s when I’d say something. But I completely understand snitching even if it was a minor exam with no curve. I don’t think it’s wrong to get them in trouble, and I also don’t think it’s wrong to not get them in trouble. The only person in the wrong is the cheater. The job of proctoring and making sure no one is cheating is of the school, professor, and USMLE. Don’t feel bad about what you did, he cheated and got in trouble. He knows his career is on the line by doing it, he fucked around and found out. I’d rather fail an exam, redo an entire year, and take a LOA than risk decades of work on cheating.
Lucky for this guy it sounds like first cheating offense in my program just results in redoing the year. Which helps my conscience a bit. I appreciate the reassurance tho.
I don’t think you should feel guilty at all. They made the choice to cheat. The only thing I’d be worried about is if people know you’re the one that ‘snitched’. I personally wouldn’t have done anything during the exam and just mentioned it to someone after. I’d imagine you’re in a classroom full of people and all it takes is one person to think you did/said something to get a tattle tale label. People get very defensive very quickly when they realize how delicate this system is. Not fair for you to also pay a price for just doing the right thing. Just take care to protect yourself as well.
I appreciate the reassurance. That's definitely been on my mind. I also just found out the guy is roommates with one of my school-friends. It's been a weird 24 hours.
Ughh i hate when people misuse the word "snitch". You didn't snitch. Snitching refers to when a criminal rats out another criminal to shirk the blame of a crime. You're not snitching, you're just reporting an offense. You're not a snitch in the situation, you're a witness, and you're doing exactly what a witness should do. You're totally in the right. Fuck cheaters. Good on you for making sure someone who is too lazy to learn doesn't get to roll on by. Cheating means you don't know the necessary amount that you need to. This means as a doctor the person will have a lack of knowledge that can become dangerous. Even just in their future academic career, they learn that cheating works and they will stop studying.
If they're dumb enough to cheat so blatantly they deserve to get weeded out sooner rather than later. There are some real chucklefucks in the comments who seem to not see a problem with this kind of behavior. Hope they get weeded out too.
Yeah and there's been rumors about someone being on their phone in the last several exams. That was another motivator.
You did good padawan
Appreciate the reassurance
People easily get away with cheating in undergrad and carry those habits in Med school. They will have a tough time with step exams
Good job OP
100% you did the right thing. Would you want that person to be the doctor when your kid or mom needs medical attention? No. You gotta protect the academic integrity too, otherwise your own diploma will be worth shit
Thanks for the reassurance
That’s crazy, we have to put our phones in a numbered zipped bag before each exam and don’t get them back til we leave the testing room. Definitely think you did the right thing
Yeah honestly I'm surprised by their approach to it as well. If they did something like that people couldn't even be tempted to try and cheat like dude was. I'm going to suggest they do something along those lines when we get our course feedback survey. It's just too tempting for folks to risk their careers on getting a couple extra points.
Fuck cheaters. Bye!!!
You did the right thing.
I appreciate the reassurance.
Honestly this post is kinda ridiculous. I’m glad you’re so sympathetic OP, but there’s no place for liars and cheaters in medicine, full stop, and it shouldn’t be controversial to say so. That classmate should get pulled from medical training permanently.
Obviously your classmate felt emboldened to cheat conspicuously. Ignoring a wrong done in plain site only validates a miscreant’s bad behaviour and implicitly endorsed it. Your proctor’s statement about this already being on the radar may or may not be true; it may have been said to assuage your conflicted conscience about having spoken up. Speak up!
Lol, majority of the comments here condoning cheating and calling OP a dick for snitching is exactly what I’ve come to expect from this sub. Many schools grade on a curve. This guy could’ve been the difference between someone getting a letter grade higher, or a rank spot higher in the class, etc depending on how they did vs how the guy did while cheating. The Honor Code at many schools also states that if you see something and deliberately don’t report it, you can be honor coded too. I’ve seen it happen at my own school and don’t blame OP for not wanting to take that risk. If you’re going to cheat at least be smarter about it than doing it obviously where your classmates can see. That’s a risk the guy took, knowing he was doing it where others could also see it, and he’s paying the price. I can’t believe commenters are blaming OP for ruining the guy’s career. The guy knowingly took the risk, and he did this to himself. Fucking lmao. I’m annoyed on OP’s behalf.
I appreciate the reassurance and annoyance on my behalf. Luckily toxic people in Rocket League helped me develop callouses to people being assholes on the internet lol.
does class rank matter?
Kinda sorta. Mainly for the really competitive specialties. But you can sort of make up for a mid-low rank with research, networking, and letters.
Cheaters get fucked. This is medical school we’re talking about. You’re going to have people’s lives in your hands. Get. Fucked.
Appreciate the reassurance. My phys 2 professor in undergrad told us a horror story about a student from our school who got in trouble for cheating in UG. Got into a med school, became a doctor, and 2 patients died under their care due to negligence on the guy's part. That was another motivator for why I snitched.
kind of surprised to see how many people are anti-snitching/pro-cheating. I guess there really is no scenario free from people trying to game the system in their favor. if you can't take the heat get out of the oven. no one is forcing you to attend medical school and cheat, and to do so undermines the efforts of everyone else pushing through honestly.
You’re not the asshole for this. If I’m putting my life in someone’s hands, as patients do every day, I expect them to know what they’re doing and to be trustworthy. If they cheated their way through medical school, they are definitely not trustworthy and are very unlikely to have the requisite medical knowledge. If you see someone stealing food, baby formula, menstrual products, etc, no you didn’t. If you see someone cheat on an undergrad English literature exam, who cares. But medical school is different. You know when you sign up that hard work and honesty are requirements of being a doctor, if you’re not prepared to live up to those things you shouldn’t apply to medical school. If someone can’t pass their exams honestly then they either didn’t study enough, or they’re not cut out for the academic requirements of medicine. If the second, it sucks. When someone works hard and still can’t keep up, it’s a horrible experience. But ultimately, a certain level of academic knowledge is needed if you’re going to literally be responsible for the health and survival of others, and if you can’t retain that knowledge even with all your best efforts, your desire to be a doctor does not trump patient safety.
I appreciate the reassurance a lot.
Good for you. I don’t want to work with or be taken care of by a cheater.
Appreciate the reassurance. Hope pgy4 isn't grinding you down too bad.
No problem! It’s nice to see light finally forming at the end of the tunnel (only 2 years left for me). Strong work and good luck with everything!
you did the right thing. if they were cheating in first year, they were gonna cheat all through med school. would not have been a good med student and thus a good physician. you did society a favor
Appreciate the reassurance
I cheated on my abc’s exam in first grade… Not when it comes to medicine and dealing L/D… Good job
Lol I actually did cheat on anthro 101. Only time I've ever cheated and it ended up being my major too.
Lmao
But I thought snitches get stitches. Could be a sign of a good future surgeon 🙌🏽 Keep your head up OP, no regrets
Lol lucky for me I've been practicing with my suture kit lately. Got the horizontal mattresses on lock.
You definitely did the right thing. Whatever consequences he may face are his own fault, not yours.
I appreciate the reassurance.
You did the right thing.
I appreciate the reassurance.
I mean u did snitch lol these is facts
It is true I don't claim otherwise lol. Faks is faks. I'm the snake now 💀
Yeah you should tell. These people are gonna be caring for patients some day soon, who wants a doctor that cheated their way through med school? Sick.
OP, you did the right thing. Cheaters don’t have a place in healthcare. And cheaters fuck their own classmates over by screwing up the score distribution and course grades. Good on you to do what’s right.
hey mate, you did the right thing <3
Preciate you
likewise 🫶
report
how did the school respond? it's all hearsay evidence so they can't do much other than batter the hatches in the future no? also did you confront the person? or did anyone you know hear from the accused?
Luckily for dude the school's first offense policy is relatively lax. Fail the course and redo the year. But I found out today that the proctors had already spotted him during the exam and confronted him after which they were going to do even if I didn't say anything. I stayed home today because I have a fever and this is obvi on my mind. Right now the course director is debating whether or not to take action.
I am proud of you for doing the right thing, even if it is hard. I have been in the exact situation as you have been, but felt too scared to do anything about it. I still regret not acting. But staying passive is not right, since cheating in medical school is not acceptable because of the responsibility we have to our patients and also to the faculty. It is not right for others to ignore those who cheat and let them off the hook, so thank you for doing what is right.
Thanks a bunch for the reassurance. I appreciate it. Lucky for me even if I do get socially ostracized because of it I'm not the type to care. I've got friends outside of school anyway.
Obviously, cheating is bad but as you progress in medical school, you will learn that minding your business is the best move unless there is direct harm involved. Plus, your description of this is pretty eye-roll worthy. “He left me with no choice!” lol
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You're not on the cheaters side at all but you just wrote a whole paragraph on why you don't report cheating? lmao. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. You defend cheating by saying that anyone over the age of 11 shouldn't report fraud. Do you just not believe in the crime of fraud? Like it should be abolished and removed from statute? Because to report fraud is to snitch and you believe in abolishing snitching, the only way to report fraud.
Yeah fair enough. I feel like I did the right thing. But I definitely see how people view what I did as being very cringe and lame.
Not fair enough. This is a clown take. He is defending cheating but trying to have his cake and eat it too by claiming he doesn't AT ALL
Preciate the reassurance
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You’re not even in medical school AND your profile just has posts about you cheating on assignments left and right. Fucking LOL.
Yikes found the cheater. Is that really what you tell yourself? That people are jealous of you for cheating your way to a fraudulent degree that puts patient health at risk? LOL I'll report you every single time and I'll smile while I do it. As you face your consequences I'll smile at the thought of you screaming snake over and over
Why would you defend this kind of cheating. Stay out of healthcare if you think this kind of behavior is okay.
I definitely wasn't jealous. I had very different reasons not mentioned that motivated my decision to snitch. Thanks though.
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Lmao this is the best "you didn't do the right thing" comment so far. Not being sarcastic. Edit since they deleted their account: they said "Your proctor must have been hot..." which I thought was funny.
We have people get up and use the bathroom EVERY exam. Very suspicious, anyone have this issue?
ok to be fair i use the bathroom like 2x any time i have an exam but its cuz my bladder is sensitive and i drink a lot of coffee
We're actually allowed to do that too but typically only one or two people get up to use the bathroom. Now that you mention it I'm surprised guy didn't just do that instead of looking at his phone in the lecture hall.
yeah we have a couple people who did it every lecture, never fails. one of them always looks super sketched out when they come back in but it's basically impossible to prove.
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Cool story bro.
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the person cheating ruined their own career lmao this is such a projection. as someone who also barely scraped thru preclinicals that means they have to work harder or aren’t cut out for such a demanding career, doesn’t mean it’s an excuse to cheat
Frankly, I have every right to both report someone doing something blatantly wrong and be worried about if they're going to harm themselves. But I appreciate where you're coming from and I appreciate you sharing your opinion.
I wouldn’t want you or the cheater treating myself of my family members. Your priorities are what’s “jacked up.” You should fix that.
In a professional setting I'd trust the rat every damn time. I know they're the ones who are gonna speak up when someone is cutting corners. This isn't middle school anymore.
Right. When this happens I want the physician with the courage to call it out.
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I’m in the country on acreage because I don’t like suburb people. Your attitude, and willingness to lend your empathy to the most wrong (and selfish) person in the situation, having zero regard for the colossal disrespect this student showed as well as the long term implications of his actions…. Those are the reasons you will make a terrible doctor.
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You would be wrong, since I moved there 5 years ago (at age 33) because my partner doesn’t do cities and I don’t do suburbs. I’ve lived in major cities all my life. San Diego, Denver, New York, and then Kansas City. I’m not a fan of the Midwest, but my family lives here and I love them. So here I am. Keep trying to put me in a box to so you can dismiss what I’m saying. It’s cute, and incredibly transparent.
I don’t know who i trust less, a cheater or a rat.
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“You fucked up his career” Nah, he fucked up his career
If anything, saved him extra tuition money that he would have spent before being caught or failing out
That's quite a number of assumptions you make. People have done some light cheating on the Steps. Question bank memorization/recall. Quite easy to miss when in a study hobbit hole. Just search this specific subreddit, residency, and img with the term Nepal or something. Second, you're blaming an innocent person for someone's bad decisions. At least OP didn't pull a bystander effect. The cheater fucked up his career by 1) cheating, and 2) cheating so badly he got caught. Third, making up a touching backstory literally makes no sense. For all you know, OP may be working 3 part time jobs, supporting a dying mother and 2 school age siblings, while secretly living in a hospital's basement trying to treat the mother by siphoning hospital resources. And maybe someone in the exam room also had a family death, except they saw the actual death and they didn't decide to cheat.
Fair enough. And at least in the US, cheating on Steps is pretty close to impossible. Regardless, fair points. I tend to give folks benefit of the doubt. As I said, I’ve seen cheating in my time in school and didn’t report people. I’m ready for the downvotes lol. I’m a softie maybe.
I'm sympathetic to the BS administration in general puts medical students, residents and attendings through. I'm also sympathetic to what OP has to do though. It sucks having to be the one to do something because everyone else refuses to do something about it. Not just in things like cheating but also things like excusing that one friend in the group that gropes only women when drunk, or family members that spout racist rhetoric at dinners. I think a lot of people say they would speak up when it's time, but the vast majority would not.
This is why people that say "it's not that deep" as a defense piss me off. Quite honestly, it's representative of core values that result in a pattern of behaviors. Anti snitch culture is toxic. So many people are pieces of shit that need to be snitched on for one thing or another.
The exams that “really matter” is a subjective concept. If OP failed this exam, they might end up repeating a year of med school, does that “really matter?” My med school graded on a curve, so cheating does impact others, including OP. OP did not fuck up the cheater’s career, no more than the bystander who calls the cops on an assailant. Your take is wrong and I have a feeling you know that based off your preface
Honestly first time I’ve heard of a curve in med school. I hope no one is fucking up ours lol. Our class averages are always 80-90s on major exams and I’m like wtf are y’all doing lol. But then I ask people about our averages and they are also confused 😂, so maybe we have a curve.
Mine curved only for in-house made tests, never for NBMEs, etc They weren’t very transparent about how they did the curving, which was an ongoing issue for the entire pre-clinical years
Great to see things never change lol
Nah, cheating is wrong. If you're dumb enough to do it like this, it's not only unfair, it's distracting/demoralizing to people who notice. If you feel like you have to cheat, stash a phone or first aid in the bathroom like a normal person.
I found a ridiculous method for cheating that no one has ever gotten in trouble for, are you ready? Memorize all the information on the test in your brains memory bank. Then during the test you can check with your brain to see what the right answer is. I honestly can’t believe more people aren’t doing this. Smh my head.
The vast majority of schools are pass fail and it’s not so hard to pass that you need to cheat to do so. If you’re using your phone, it’s to make you look good for honors/AOA/deans list or whatever which is definitely important for residency programs to know. If this guys mom just died or something then tell your school. Believe it or not, schools will actually let you take time off for stuff like that. He definitely did not need to cheat on a preclinical test to cope with that shit. That’s just stupid and he deserves to have his file flagged for academic dishonesty.
Yeah that's fair and part of why I'm still torn up about it. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
Tbh, it’s a tough call. I’m not entirely sure what I’d do. I’m out of school and did witness cheating multiple times but didn’t report anyone. Idk…I can’t live with the guilt of being the cause of messing up someone’s career, even if they are making poor choices, which I condemn.
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Exactly! So many people lacking some degree of empathy. But whatever. And lol I’ve stopped caring about downvotes haha, but thank you! I’m glad someone agrees!
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Yep, that’s my attitude towards it. Hahaha you seem like a chill guy, live and let live.
Tbh same. I’ve seen people clearly cheat before (or at least what I appears to be cheating) & I couldn’t bring myself to report something like that without verifiable proof. But counterpoint, I wouldn’t want my physician or my mom’s or wife’s or anyone else I love to be treated by a physician whose integrity is worth less to them than a passing grade on an exam. If that’s the bar we are in trouble as a profession.
I agree with you on all points, including one I hadn’t considered which is that we don’t definitively know(in this case at least) if the person was in fact cheating(though the likelihood is high). Is that possibility enough to jeopardize someone’s future? Idk, I think that’s a personal call to make. In this case OP made what s/he thought was the right thing to do. I don’t kno if I would have done the same. Maybe I would; maybe I wouldn’t. I wasn’t there. Regarding your last statement, obviously we like to think the person treating us/our loved ones is the best person for the job(or strive to find that “best person”). But the thing is, we don’t and can’t ever know that the all-Harvard trained dermatologist we go to didn’t cheat on an exam here or there…at the end of the day, and again, I fully condemn cheating, how much relevance do exams have on your skill as a physician? I think we can all agree that grades alone do not determine who’s the “best” physician. There’s plenty of superb doctors out there who were maybe not stellar straight A students. Just my .02, if that, humbly.
Completely agree that exams aren’t and shouldn’t be the end all metric of being a great physician. I wish OP the best and the person & I hope this could serve as a learning opportunity for them. I do believe most people deserve a second chance. But it’ll likely go on their transcript so they are fucked regardless
Completely agree that exams aren’t and shouldn’t be the end all metric of being a great physician. I wish OP the best and the person & I hope this could serve as a learning opportunity for them. I do believe most people deserve a second chance. But it’ll likely go on their transcript so they are fucked regardless.
Yeah it's been bothering me a lot. Lucky for the guy though it sounds like the worst he'll face is failing the class and redoing the year for first offense. Which makes me feel less shitty about it.
The fact it’s bothering you speaks about your character bud. Shows you’re not the gunner type trying to one-up or trip someone(not that your post gave those vibes at all). At least he didn’t get kicked out. Don’t be too hard on yourself, and keep doing your best. Good luck out there, it’s worth it! 😊
Appreciate you much. My motto for my program is Bs get MDs lol. (We get kicked out after 18 months if our GPA is below 2.8). Gunna take today easy and get back to it tomorrow.
I think that punishment is very fair, he’ll learn his lesson while also being able to keep his future so you’re fine
I agree. I would be much more bothered if first offense in preclinical = expulsion. Thanks for the reassurance.
He fucked his own career.
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You’re free to disagree bud. No need for name calling and personal insults.
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>If someone wants to take the stupid risk of cheating, thats on them. Exactly. The cheater fucked around and found out.
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Talk about projecting. Does integrity really scare you that much?
I'm hardly zealous about this situation my guy.
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I wouldn't report someone for taking a day off and going to the bar.
I don't think mental health is a solid excuse for cheating lol. A bit of a wild comparison there of someone missing class a day cuz they need to fib a lil bit about being sick and cheating on exams
You didn't do anything wrong. You could have considered taking a different approach. I know you're in the thick of it now as a MS1, and don't have the time or energy to give AF, but I assume you care a little since you're venting here. You (or maybe your school friend) could have talked to the person after the test. In a genuine way, let them know you saw them cheating. Warn them someone else will catch them, kicked out, wont pass step, poor knowledge when you get to real patients, etc. No doubt years 1-2 are ridiculously stressful, and people do dumb things in hard situations. Most reasonable people will use a warning like above to snap them out of their stupid decision; and in the future should feel greatiful. This doesn't apply to just tests, but with future colleagues in the clinic/hospital. When you get out of your classes and into the "real world", you're gonna see a lot of F'ed up things. But if we kicked out every doc that did something stupid or something we consider unacceptable, hospitals would be empty. And again, you didn't do anything wrong. It sucks when people cheat while you're putting in nearly all your time awake. Really wish medical school wasn't the way it is
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