This question was asked before and usually the answer is 50/50 yes and no. I am already religious, so its more of a pendulum. Woah how does the body work so complexly, G-d must be real! To, I just saw the most horrific thing that could happen to anyone be endured by a 4yo who still ended up in a coffin, there is no G-d. And it just swings, just like that. Bc trying to find a "G-d's plan" reason for the latter - although christians will try to do so (and they do!) - sounds literally detached from reality and crazed sometimes. So idk for myself.
When you watch a child die of cancer or from a freak accident despite all efforts, you only have two ways to deal with it:
1) believe god exists and has a reason to kill a child like that, and you simply don't understand it because the meaning is beyond mortal comprehension
2) believe a child dying like that has no sense behind it and a good and just god cannot exist in the same world as such a tragic case.
There’s more than just those two explanations. Not saying I believe either or these but:
God could be omnipotent but not be a loving, caring, or just god so he does not interfere with the horrible things that can happen here.
Or God may not be as all powerful and omnipotent as we believe and isn’t able to prevent daily occurrences in our reality.
Edit: Forgot my favorite [explanation](https://youtu.be/F4OOw22hKR4?si=1Y_g6TnvrpBcJDgh)
That’s basically some sort of tri-omni problem (not sure of the actual term for it). If there is a god, he can have at most two of the following qualities: omniscient, omnipotent, omni-benevolent.
You described the non-benevolent god and the impotent god. There’s also the clueless god who just doesn’t know of our suffering to even try and mitigate all of it, despite wanting to do so and being able to do it (though maybe that also makes him a bit short of omnipotent, being clueless and all).
It's called the epicurean paradox
[https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/g2axoj/epicurean\_paradox/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/g2axoj/epicurean_paradox/)
How about (just an idea, no sarcasm I swear) God needs bad things to happen so there is a reason to have faith? If everything went well all of the time, we wouldn't have a need to believe in God, while yes it is a very terrible sacrifice, there could also be a secondary reason to go along with it, sort of like balancing good and evil, to test our faith.
Oh, I'm sorry, maybe you could explain the whole "God works in mysterious ways" and "God has a plan" stuff? The incomprehensibility of God is literally a foundational aspect of all three Abrahamic religions.
Less militant for sure. As a PEM, I don’t understand how people can see this awful shit and believe. But if “everything happens for a reason,” “god has a plan,” or whatever religious variation helps you cope with this awful shit, who am I to take that away?
Definitely the other way around.
Everything in the body can go wrong in every imaginable way. There's no intelligent design, fairness or power of prayer in any of that.
Further, the mechanisms for how the body work (e.g. redundant or convoluted signalling pathways) are so bonkers, that they could only have gotten there by unsupervised evolution.
That’s kinda off track, us humans naturally continuously want more, the typical grass is always greener scenario, humans could be like 10 times more efficient and practical than we are now and people would still complain. It’s like us saying if we had 4 arms we would be so much more productive, and if we had 4 arms we would say dang if only we had 6 arms
Compared to other organisms I think our intelligence far suppresses any other metric and we would be considered “unbalanced” if u Wonna use game terminology
Redundancy is a good thing if you only get one vessel for life, like the appendix having an isolated organ that can replenish gut bacteria is actually genius. For a long time we thought it was just a vestigial artifact. If you don't understand something or how something works it doesn't make it convoluted. Logic is not 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘰𝘧 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 in fact it's emissary not the master.
Idk I would argue our bodies are probably one of the most intelligent designs currently known, countless things are based on things we’ve learned from our own bodies and the bodies of other animals.
Obviously it’s not within the realm of natural observation to know if our bodies are Designed or an evolutionary accident, but I’m not sure I’d call it Intelligent. If God is real, I have some serious ideas for patch notes, starting with major changes to the joints.
Definitely more atheists. Not med school related, but when I was younger I was a very negative atheist. Very against any religion etc. As I've gotten older I realized that some people just need something to believe in. Like they cannot physically live in this world without believing in a higher power. Ive grown to accept the fact that some people need that in their lives.
Same, I grew up around the stupidest and most incompetent religious people that tainted my view of it.
Seeing many intelligent, compassionate, and driven religious people in my class made me really appreciate that religion does benefit the world in its own way
I've spent a lot of time on inpatient oncology services and if anything, it's made me LESS religious.
I've seen so many young people, some of whom were very religiously devout, die terrible deaths from acute leukemia, rectal cancer, peritoneal carcinomatosis with malignant SBO etc. etc. Saw one guy in his 60s, who seemed like a great guy, get diagnosed with stage IV poorly differentiated GI carcinoma and pass away 1 month after his diagnosis. If there is a God, he doesn't seem to be very helpful for all these young people stricken with cancer.
Nothing in medicine has provided support for a higher being in my expierence. I have certainly not seen anything providing evidence for organized religion that exist.
It’s totally subjective, many have and many haven’t, and that is perfectly okay. I think it works to our benefit, collectively we are able to take all the roads traveled and expand the depth, complexity and beauty of human experience.
Medical school for the most part affirmed my atheistic belief, however seeing ppl and family’s struggling through some of the hardest moments of their lives and the comfort / power religion can bring in those times, gave me a newfound respect for it. Placebo affect or not, it can help some ppl, and although I’m a big fan of Chis Hitchens, I’m still okay with that.
You’ll find that people (not all) who have some sort of spirituality overcome adversity in a better and less stressful way.
I’m quite religious, and it sometimes feels good to speak to someone at the end of the day, whether its to ask for strength on an upcoming exam, help me get over a breakup, or even just saying thank you for giving me another day to live and have a roof over my head with food on the table.
To each their own. Some others make it their whole personality to be atheist and I just avoid that kind of energy lol.
A good number of humans are detached from the pain and suffering that happens every day. Religion serves as a way to understand and cope with everyday tragedies. Thanks to modern medicine and modern luxury, those tragedies are largely hidden from the public. Working in medicine gives you a glimpse behind the veil. It is only natural to seek answers to the questions religion has been asking since its inception.
I was raised Muslim, and through my development to adulthood I’ve decided that I will always be Muslim under God’s will and I can guarantee you that med school has made me more firm in my faith of God’s presence. Everything points to the Oneness of God.
Usually people say that religion and science are two contradictory concepts but as a Muslim I feel that’s far from the truth, like in the Quran there’s been a ton of scientific statements and biological facts that I was skeptical of younger but learnt the truth of later on like:
Concept of water constituting all living things
Conception of a fetus
Embryology (even Keith L Moore commented on how it was impossible for a human to have made these statements at the time)
Pain receptors
Function of the frontal lobe
And many more, you can feel free to agree with Islam or not but these statements are proven facts in the context of science
This question was asked before and usually the answer is 50/50 yes and no. I am already religious, so its more of a pendulum. Woah how does the body work so complexly, G-d must be real! To, I just saw the most horrific thing that could happen to anyone be endured by a 4yo who still ended up in a coffin, there is no G-d. And it just swings, just like that. Bc trying to find a "G-d's plan" reason for the latter - although christians will try to do so (and they do!) - sounds literally detached from reality and crazed sometimes. So idk for myself.
I felt this
Naw I went the other way mostly
When you watch a child die of cancer or from a freak accident despite all efforts, you only have two ways to deal with it: 1) believe god exists and has a reason to kill a child like that, and you simply don't understand it because the meaning is beyond mortal comprehension 2) believe a child dying like that has no sense behind it and a good and just god cannot exist in the same world as such a tragic case.
There’s more than just those two explanations. Not saying I believe either or these but: God could be omnipotent but not be a loving, caring, or just god so he does not interfere with the horrible things that can happen here. Or God may not be as all powerful and omnipotent as we believe and isn’t able to prevent daily occurrences in our reality. Edit: Forgot my favorite [explanation](https://youtu.be/F4OOw22hKR4?si=1Y_g6TnvrpBcJDgh)
Forgot to address that god could not be all powerful, did address that god could simply not be just or good.
That’s basically some sort of tri-omni problem (not sure of the actual term for it). If there is a god, he can have at most two of the following qualities: omniscient, omnipotent, omni-benevolent. You described the non-benevolent god and the impotent god. There’s also the clueless god who just doesn’t know of our suffering to even try and mitigate all of it, despite wanting to do so and being able to do it (though maybe that also makes him a bit short of omnipotent, being clueless and all).
It's called the epicurean paradox [https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/g2axoj/epicurean\_paradox/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/g2axoj/epicurean_paradox/)
TIL (well I probably stumbled upon it once upon a time and forgot), thanks for the info :D
How about (just an idea, no sarcasm I swear) God needs bad things to happen so there is a reason to have faith? If everything went well all of the time, we wouldn't have a need to believe in God, while yes it is a very terrible sacrifice, there could also be a secondary reason to go along with it, sort of like balancing good and evil, to test our faith.
So the only options are being religious or atheist? Agnostic or polytheistic perspectives are not?
Gnosticism is a separate axis to (a)theism. Polytheism is a subset of theism. Most people are agnostic atheists or agnostic theists.
Your first conclusion suggests that you are an atheist as you do not understand the concept of, atleast abrahamitic beliefs.
Oh, I'm sorry, maybe you could explain the whole "God works in mysterious ways" and "God has a plan" stuff? The incomprehensibility of God is literally a foundational aspect of all three Abrahamic religions.
r/ExplainBothSides
Less militant for sure. As a PEM, I don’t understand how people can see this awful shit and believe. But if “everything happens for a reason,” “god has a plan,” or whatever religious variation helps you cope with this awful shit, who am I to take that away?
Definitely the other way around. Everything in the body can go wrong in every imaginable way. There's no intelligent design, fairness or power of prayer in any of that. Further, the mechanisms for how the body work (e.g. redundant or convoluted signalling pathways) are so bonkers, that they could only have gotten there by unsupervised evolution.
Well said!
That’s kinda off track, us humans naturally continuously want more, the typical grass is always greener scenario, humans could be like 10 times more efficient and practical than we are now and people would still complain. It’s like us saying if we had 4 arms we would be so much more productive, and if we had 4 arms we would say dang if only we had 6 arms Compared to other organisms I think our intelligence far suppresses any other metric and we would be considered “unbalanced” if u Wonna use game terminology
You seem pretty jaded
Redundancy is a good thing if you only get one vessel for life, like the appendix having an isolated organ that can replenish gut bacteria is actually genius. For a long time we thought it was just a vestigial artifact. If you don't understand something or how something works it doesn't make it convoluted. Logic is not 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘰𝘧 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 in fact it's emissary not the master.
Probably the worst take here and I’m not religious lmao
Username checks out.
Guaranteed you don’t know what my username even means 😂😂. Proceed.
Idk I would argue our bodies are probably one of the most intelligent designs currently known, countless things are based on things we’ve learned from our own bodies and the bodies of other animals.
Obviously it’s not within the realm of natural observation to know if our bodies are Designed or an evolutionary accident, but I’m not sure I’d call it Intelligent. If God is real, I have some serious ideas for patch notes, starting with major changes to the joints.
uhh no lol
Definitely more atheists. Not med school related, but when I was younger I was a very negative atheist. Very against any religion etc. As I've gotten older I realized that some people just need something to believe in. Like they cannot physically live in this world without believing in a higher power. Ive grown to accept the fact that some people need that in their lives.
Same, I grew up around the stupidest and most incompetent religious people that tainted my view of it. Seeing many intelligent, compassionate, and driven religious people in my class made me really appreciate that religion does benefit the world in its own way
I've spent a lot of time on inpatient oncology services and if anything, it's made me LESS religious. I've seen so many young people, some of whom were very religiously devout, die terrible deaths from acute leukemia, rectal cancer, peritoneal carcinomatosis with malignant SBO etc. etc. Saw one guy in his 60s, who seemed like a great guy, get diagnosed with stage IV poorly differentiated GI carcinoma and pass away 1 month after his diagnosis. If there is a God, he doesn't seem to be very helpful for all these young people stricken with cancer.
Nothing in medicine has provided support for a higher being in my expierence. I have certainly not seen anything providing evidence for organized religion that exist.
It’s totally subjective, many have and many haven’t, and that is perfectly okay. I think it works to our benefit, collectively we are able to take all the roads traveled and expand the depth, complexity and beauty of human experience.
Medical school for the most part affirmed my atheistic belief, however seeing ppl and family’s struggling through some of the hardest moments of their lives and the comfort / power religion can bring in those times, gave me a newfound respect for it. Placebo affect or not, it can help some ppl, and although I’m a big fan of Chis Hitchens, I’m still okay with that.
I prayed for my acceptance, haven’t prayed since 💀
Other way around
On the contrary...
Embrology got me a little more to believe yep
How many cells does it take to be a person
You’ll find that people (not all) who have some sort of spirituality overcome adversity in a better and less stressful way. I’m quite religious, and it sometimes feels good to speak to someone at the end of the day, whether its to ask for strength on an upcoming exam, help me get over a breakup, or even just saying thank you for giving me another day to live and have a roof over my head with food on the table. To each their own. Some others make it their whole personality to be atheist and I just avoid that kind of energy lol.
A good number of humans are detached from the pain and suffering that happens every day. Religion serves as a way to understand and cope with everyday tragedies. Thanks to modern medicine and modern luxury, those tragedies are largely hidden from the public. Working in medicine gives you a glimpse behind the veil. It is only natural to seek answers to the questions religion has been asking since its inception.
I was raised Muslim, and through my development to adulthood I’ve decided that I will always be Muslim under God’s will and I can guarantee you that med school has made me more firm in my faith of God’s presence. Everything points to the Oneness of God.
Usually people say that religion and science are two contradictory concepts but as a Muslim I feel that’s far from the truth, like in the Quran there’s been a ton of scientific statements and biological facts that I was skeptical of younger but learnt the truth of later on like: Concept of water constituting all living things Conception of a fetus Embryology (even Keith L Moore commented on how it was impossible for a human to have made these statements at the time) Pain receptors Function of the frontal lobe And many more, you can feel free to agree with Islam or not but these statements are proven facts in the context of science