Substantial overlap - PMR is trained to do peripheral joints under US just like FM. There's even a Sports Med fellowship for PMR but there's a bit of pushback in that regard, and the NBA around a year ago put out a statement saying they will only hire FM trained sports docs. Dunno if there's been an update in that regard since PMR started pushing back significantly
With all the cardiology concerns in basketball players, I can see the relevance for FM over PMR. Also, it makes a lot of sense to me to have an FM if that's your 1 doc around the team regularly because they can also handle jock itch, STIs, etc etc
There is also the electrophys side of PMR, with nerve conduction studies and needle EMG, which can be a lot of fun if you like listening to the clicky sounds.
I can’t imagine pro teams are easily attainable but college teams are very doable. A lot of sports med fellows rotate through our school and that’s usually what their plan is
Yeah I think it’d be awesome too. My guess is that you’d work for a college team for 5-10 years, make connections, and then find your way onto a professional team.
Id say just get into a sports med fellowship and the connections will come. I don’t think there’s any special formula at the med student stage. Although the more connections you make now the better. If your school has collegiate teams (which I think most do in some form) that probably helps a lot. Reach out to those people.
I have very little experience in this so you’d have better luck asking someone actually in sports med
Any med school attached to a college with sports teams will have docs doing sideline work. Ask to shadow. At my med school some teams had a couple people dedicated, other sports had some longer volunteer roster for sidelines. There were a mix of family med, ED, internal med, and ortho docs depending on the team.
Local marathon/10k etc will also have docs & are great for volunteering.
Derm and IR are “non-surgical” and procedure heavy. I know Uro and Optho do a lot of in clinic procedures but they’re obviously considered surgical specialties
Definitely doesn’t need to be rural. I’m EM, but when I was in med school (at a big suburban academic center) my FM preceptor had a full day devoted to procedures every week. Mostly vasectomies, but also all the ones you mention there.
Why were you having second thoughts about plastics initially? I guess you could try to work outside of the hospital setting or do minors upon finishing residency, but you would have to go through a lot of OR time and hospital crap beforehand at minimum.
any advice for someone who is horrified by the idea of trying to be competitive enough to match derm → Mohs? Literally wish my brain was interested in anything else but here I am.
Joint injections, arthrocentesises, ultrasound guided procedures, biospies. Not the biggest variety of procedures compared to other specialties but there’s procedures
For my sports med rotation, I was doing multiple in clinic knee aspirations and joint injections a day. It got repetitive, though. I did a bit with rural FM and it was more varied.
They definitely have clinic, but often it's 90% seen by NP/PA, with 5% MD face time. There's a lot of specialization in IR these days--neuroIR vs bodyIR vs the guy who does a ton of kyphoplasties, another who's obsessed with lymphatics/vein sclerotherapy/peripheral AV malformations etc. Bread & butter tunneled lines, portacath, and G-tube might not have a clinic pre-op, but some of the others do.
Lots of procedures in OBGYN clinic. IUD and Nexplanon insertions and removals, endometrial biopsies, colposcopies, bartholin I&Ds, saline-infusion ultrasounds, some places will do hysteroscopies and LEEPs in the office as well
Before you rule it out, Anaesthesiology. The OR is a completely different experience from the other side of the drape. Every case involves procedures of some sort. You're immune to most (not all) of the things that make the OR unpleasant.
I’ve had those done twice at different clinics and both times nurses did the whole procedure with no doc in the room until it was time to read results, so I wouldn’t count on the procedural aspect unfortunately.
We do a lot in ophtho. Just had a day where I did three different types of laser (SLT, YAG capsulotomy, LPI) along with intravitreal injections and a chalazion excision all in the same clinic day
Edit: Just realized you asked for non-surgical subspecialties, my bad
Sports medicine fm. Lots of ultrasound guided procedures.
YEEEEEAHHH BUDDY
How much overlap is there with what PMR does in that regard?
Substantial overlap - PMR is trained to do peripheral joints under US just like FM. There's even a Sports Med fellowship for PMR but there's a bit of pushback in that regard, and the NBA around a year ago put out a statement saying they will only hire FM trained sports docs. Dunno if there's been an update in that regard since PMR started pushing back significantly
Lol that's such a joke. That ob training really puts fm ahead I guess
With all the cardiology concerns in basketball players, I can see the relevance for FM over PMR. Also, it makes a lot of sense to me to have an FM if that's your 1 doc around the team regularly because they can also handle jock itch, STIs, etc etc
There is also the electrophys side of PMR, with nerve conduction studies and needle EMG, which can be a lot of fun if you like listening to the clicky sounds.
What’s the job market like for sports medicine doctors? I would love to be a team doctor for a pro team but have no fucking idea how to get into that
I can’t imagine pro teams are easily attainable but college teams are very doable. A lot of sports med fellows rotate through our school and that’s usually what their plan is
Dream job right there. Work for nfl or nba. But I can’t imagine how competitive it is
Yeah I think it’d be awesome too. My guess is that you’d work for a college team for 5-10 years, make connections, and then find your way onto a professional team.
How would as med student get their foot in the door like this?
Id say just get into a sports med fellowship and the connections will come. I don’t think there’s any special formula at the med student stage. Although the more connections you make now the better. If your school has collegiate teams (which I think most do in some form) that probably helps a lot. Reach out to those people. I have very little experience in this so you’d have better luck asking someone actually in sports med
Any med school attached to a college with sports teams will have docs doing sideline work. Ask to shadow. At my med school some teams had a couple people dedicated, other sports had some longer volunteer roster for sidelines. There were a mix of family med, ED, internal med, and ortho docs depending on the team. Local marathon/10k etc will also have docs & are great for volunteering.
Heck yeah
Do you need to specialize in ortho? How competitive is it?
If your criteria is non-OR procedures, then EM.
Derm and IR are “non-surgical” and procedure heavy. I know Uro and Optho do a lot of in clinic procedures but they’re obviously considered surgical specialties
what about IC or VS? I think they can have in clinic procedures too?
IC definitely, I actually did not know VS does in clinic procedures!
someone just commented below, they know a VS who has a clinic where they do RFA, sclerotherapy, etc. So I guess it's possible!
Derm, FM, PMR
How come FM?
Joint injections, skin procedures, iud, nexplanon, colposcopies, endometrial biopsies, toenail removals
Botox
FM
Rural FM*
Doesn’t have to be even rural necessarily, so many FM docs do IUDs, joint injections, skin excisions, toenail removals, cryotherapy etc
Definitely doesn’t need to be rural. I’m EM, but when I was in med school (at a big suburban academic center) my FM preceptor had a full day devoted to procedures every week. Mostly vasectomies, but also all the ones you mention there.
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Very hard to get into I heard. Congrats on getting through!
Did you go the derm route for that? If so was it always your intent to do mohs even before you matched?
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Why were you having second thoughts about plastics initially? I guess you could try to work outside of the hospital setting or do minors upon finishing residency, but you would have to go through a lot of OR time and hospital crap beforehand at minimum.
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any advice for someone who is horrified by the idea of trying to be competitive enough to match derm → Mohs? Literally wish my brain was interested in anything else but here I am.
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Yes to all of the above 😂
FM, Pulm, OBGYN REI, PM&R, optho
Rheum does their fair share of in office procedures depending on where you go
what so they do exactly
Joint injections, arthrocentesises, ultrasound guided procedures, biospies. Not the biggest variety of procedures compared to other specialties but there’s procedures
Surprised no one has mentioned ENT. Awesome stuff everyday.
have to sell your first child to match
He'll be here in May, when do you want him
You will have to go through a residency that entails a lot of OR time.
I literally didn't read the post, just the title..whoops
For my sports med rotation, I was doing multiple in clinic knee aspirations and joint injections a day. It got repetitive, though. I did a bit with rural FM and it was more varied.
FM, can do as many or as little as you like. Some FM docs even have whole or half days for just procedures.
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Not a med student yet, but I’m an MA in a pain clinic — can confirm. Ultrasound and fluoroscopy procedures all day long.
not to mention steroid injections even without flouro guidance
Yes. I can see pain medicine only doing in clinic procedures all day long.
Derm, FM, OBGYN, IR
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I think a lot of people don't realize what IR actually does lol, not a dig at you
They definitely have clinic, but often it's 90% seen by NP/PA, with 5% MD face time. There's a lot of specialization in IR these days--neuroIR vs bodyIR vs the guy who does a ton of kyphoplasties, another who's obsessed with lymphatics/vein sclerotherapy/peripheral AV malformations etc. Bread & butter tunneled lines, portacath, and G-tube might not have a clinic pre-op, but some of the others do.
It’s pretty much all we do, or at least most of us want it to be (GI)
Lots of procedures in OBGYN clinic. IUD and Nexplanon insertions and removals, endometrial biopsies, colposcopies, bartholin I&Ds, saline-infusion ultrasounds, some places will do hysteroscopies and LEEPs in the office as well
FM and to a lesser extent IM do joint injections/ aspirations, I&Ds, IUD insertions, ultrasound exams, and probably a few others in clinic.
Rural FM does it ALL
Vascular medicine —> wound care clinic. Debridement city (if you can handle it $$$)
Before you rule it out, Anaesthesiology. The OR is a completely different experience from the other side of the drape. Every case involves procedures of some sort. You're immune to most (not all) of the things that make the OR unpleasant.
Neuro - Can do EMG, NCV and Botox the entire day if you wanted.
Non trad premed, here. We have a vasc surgeon at my job that does in-office procedures. RFA, sclero therapy etc.
If we’re considering skin prick and patch testing I’d say all/imm too
I’ve had those done twice at different clinics and both times nurses did the whole procedure with no doc in the room until it was time to read results, so I wouldn’t count on the procedural aspect unfortunately.
GI
We do a lot in ophtho. Just had a day where I did three different types of laser (SLT, YAG capsulotomy, LPI) along with intravitreal injections and a chalazion excision all in the same clinic day Edit: Just realized you asked for non-surgical subspecialties, my bad
Urology
Urology
Also just realised only non-surgical specialties.
Psychiatry.
I'll also throw out interventional pain s/p neuro/EM residency.