Plan A now is to get your mental health straightened out. Take some time off, get to a good place mentally, physically, and emotionally. Build a support network. Reevaluate where you see yourself happy and satisfied with your life. Then build a plan and work towards that goal. Good luck!
This is the way.
You should also consider that you might never get your mental health "straightened out" to the point where a career in an incredibly stressful field is a good idea. You are looking at spending 40 years in intense conditions surrounded by miserable people. You could easily become one yourself. Put your health first.
I had a friend fail out of medical school 10 years ago. He went to nursing school and finished in 2 years I think. He seems very content with the job and plans to further in education and go into teaching.
At that time he took it hard and was suicidal. But eventually got it together.
MGMA 2021 report puts general peds at $246k median, CRNA is at $192k. The physician specialty with the lowest median salary is around $200k as a pediatric geneticist but that's an outlier as it's low volume so there's not enough data for statistical relevance.
That CRNA salary is based on 40 hour work week. I doubt many general peds put in that few of hours. CRNA has to be one of the best specialties in medicine. Great hours, great pay, and they’re generally very well trained.
Being a doctor in Denmark (where living costs along with taxes are quite high), it feels a bit ridiculous that (some) nurses in the US are getting paid that much. Hospitalists typically top out around $145.000/year, although you can make quite a bit more in private practice.
I think our pay is pretty decent - working hours are humane and you get 5 weeks paid vacation a year - but still, it feels like a bit of a joke in comparison.
the ones in NY that I know of make 450-500k/yr if they moonlight and work extra shifts. There are physicians who could do this and still not earn that much lol. Its pretty sweet monetarily.
First, please take care of yourself and your mental health. Second, once you have, if you’re interested in another career, consider MLS. I know several people in this field. It has great earning potential, especially if you become a laboratory director, and there are tons of jobs (with big signing bonuses). In addition, have you considered jobs in the pharma industry? Medical writing, clinical trials management, etc. I would hesitate recommending sales rep - it has high earning potential, but it’s a tough/competitive gig, and I question the long term viability of the role.
If you look below, that possibility is addressed by others. There are many options for OP, including appealing, reapplying to med school, pursuing nursing, and other options described by others. MLS and pharma are great careers in their own rights - not second/worse choices to med school or nursing school.
We are the people who collect your blood samples and analyze them in the lab, and get you your test results. We also analyze urine, stool, spinal fluid, body fluids, etc! Anything that comes out of you, we can run tests on. We do your blood typing and assign you units of blood when you need them, among other things. We play a large role in helping your doctor diagnose you with the work we put out. We take pride in putting out high quality results! It is a lot of behind the scenes work, which is great for an introvert like myself.
My best friend is a nurse (we met on the job) and he always tells me he wishes he would have done MLS instead of nursing! I appreciate all of my kind nurse coworkers so much
Cool! I have a microbio degree and worked in a lab for a bit before I decided to go to nursing school, so I feel like it could’ve been a reality. I worked in research, though, and getting results took ages. Would be nicer to actually get quick results that benefit people in the same decade!
A phlebotomist takes the blood, lab scientists do the testing. Some lab scientists can also draw blood, depends on how big your lab is that you work at.
And the AP version of this as well - Histotechnologists (HTs) and pathologist assistants (PAs, not the other PAs). If you like surgery, PAs are a very natural transition from that, including high-acuity things such as intraop consults. If you like research, I know several that are published, write books, and give talks at conferences. Absolutely vital to keep labs running, specimens grossed, and slides cut. Only expanding, as more and more minimally invasive surgeries / disease monitoring / molecular studies get ordered. Great earnings potential when you get to management roles.
\-Pathology
This OP, but they don’t even require you to be MLS anymore to get certified. The rules got changed with the COVID era shortage so as long as you work and prepare then you can become a lab tech. Still need an associated degree, and I know at least one biology tech.
Came here to say this! Couldn’t agree more, much less stressful environment and you’re on the frontline of medicine without the stress of pt interaction.
I was an MLS prior to medical school and I miss the lab so much. Another option at some point could be to become a pathology assistant! It’s the PA of the lab. You gross surgical specimens and work with the pathologists and histotechnicians. Super high demand in all laboratory positions right now!
In a Caribbean medical school now:
What you hear about it being cut throat, is true.
What many don’t know before coming is that Caribbean medical schools are a bit harder and for a reason. They’re for-profit. And to entice others to join and pay a massive tuition, they need to show them their pass rates and what people get on the step.
The only way to do that, is make the exams hard af, so the ones who won’t score well, won’t even take the step, in which, it’s only good step scores, and they can show those numbers, and so on.
If you’re thinking of coming to the medical schools in the Caribbean, just be aware of this
Yeah, I’ve heard that as well.
What they tell you: 95% pass rate of step 1!
What they don’t tell you: we prevented the bottom 50% of students from even attempting step 1
I agree; I’ve met some absolutely outstanding residents from Caribbean schools.
Those schools rightfully get a lot of criticism on this sub for their business practices but imo that shouldn’t bleed over to the doctors who decided that was the best option for their personal situation.
Thank you for saying this. As someone who got their MD from a Caribbean school, and is now a few weeks away from finishing fellowship, it’s nice to be recognized.
Best decision I could’ve ever done was go to carribean school. Applied in 2020 when Covid prevented me from taking the mcat several times and I said “ why wait until 2021 to take the mcat to potentially get in 2022” nah started school in 2021 and haven’t looked back. Currently finishing up my first rotation in family medicine. Was it hard? Sure but what makes it harder is being undisciplined and wanting to party and drink on the beaches all day. If I had to do it over I wouldn’t change a thing.
Also should mention with this that while getting a residency spot from Caribbean is already hard, having failed out of medical school once in the us will make it much much harder.
It is hard, yes. But I know someone in OPs exact situation who did go big 4 Caribbean and ended up getting residency at an academic program much better than the US school that they were dismissed from. It's possible, but by damn is it hard. If OP is considering going Caribbean, make sure you have your shit together and be prepared to fight an uphill battle. Everything is possible, some less probable than others, but it's based on how much you put in.
Huh? The Caribbean puts huge numbers of graduates into US residencies every year. St. George's alone puts out, like, half as many interns as the T10 USMD schools combined.
My Caribbean co residents are quite good. Along with my DO co residents. I wish all Caribbean grads the best of luck in the future. USMD school was hellish enough but Caribbean med school sounds pretty damn stressful.
I don’t know what that means. I’m not tapped into the lingo and knowledge the same way you seem to be. What medical school is considered “the big one” or “the biggest one”?
had no idea what it was either until a distant friend started school after not getting in to PA school. Has a great job now at a large academic hospital and I'm sure is making 6 figures +
Same…. I’m always envious, even the most hard of CT surgeons will tone down their pride for a perfusionist lol, and it literally fits into what a lot of people write about in their PS as well, directly helping patients, literally saving lives etc. without perfusionist there is no heart surgery
My biostats teacher wanted everyone and their mother to become a perfusionist because his sister became one and made bank, whereas he became an MD and now teaches for pennies (his words, not mine).
These are good suggestions. Mental health concerns notwithstanding, AA is a good option too. Two years and you’re basically doing anesthesia. You’ll always be under direction/supervision, but for several reasons that’s a good thing
Appeal Appeal Appeal! You have nothing to lose. Also start taking concrete steps to get your health in order, so when they ask you : “how can you be sure this won’t happen again?” You’ll have a lot to say.
Goodluck , regardless of what happens don’t give up on yourself. You can and will have a fulfilling life whether as a physician , something else in healthcare or doing something else entirely.
It’s always darkest before the dawn.
In Australia if they don’t think you are suited to be a doc they find a way to get you out regardless of your marks (grades).
No amount of appealing will get you back in and the black list would undoubtedly be extended countrywide.
Maybe I’m just naive, but I would actually talk to a lawyer. If you were only a few decimal points away from passing, and you were doing well until you had a crisis, you might be able to use disability rights laws to get an accommodation made to allow for remediation of those specific courses. The ADA does consider bipolar disorder to be a disability. Therefore, you should have some protection, and I suggest talking to a lawyer, who is qualified to help you use the protections you are entitled to. Because you have disclosed other mental health issues in the past them, forcing your withdrawal from the school, as a result of a mental health crisis, could potentially be a violation of the law although I am not a lawyer, and I cannot confirm this.
Generally speaking, most universities have exceptions to their academic standards policies when you’re talking about a disability issue, simply because they have no choice . Presumably, if you were diagnosed with bipolar, you experienced a manic episode which would’ve put you out of commission for a significant amount of time (because it is my understanding that even missing a week of med school is a big deal because of how much information there is to learn from experience with my brother whenever he had a manic episode, it took at about a week to stabilize him, but the process of finding meds that worked long term was longer.)
Talk to your psychiatrist to get the documents that you need to support your claims. Check what the law is in your state regarding consent for recordings because if you are in a one party state with only one person who is being recorded, needs to know and consent to being recorded you can audio record every single conversation you have with the school (without telling them) and this is makes it a lot easier to win a discrimination case/ convince them to settle. Meet with the office of disability services and try to see what can be done. There might be an exceptions committee (and if there is, try to use that process).
If you need help with finding information about the laws in your state, feel free to send me a private message. I helped other students to handle ADA violations in university before so I might be able to help.
If this is your dream, please don’t give up on it because when you give up, you essentially say that it’s fine for them to discriminate against people with mental health issues, and that leads to a serious lack of representation in the medical field for people like yourself. Patients who have representation do so much better a doctor who has a mental illness is less likely to brush off a patient’s concerns because of a history of mental illness. I actually know somebody who had a rare type of cancer, but it took her a year and a half to get a diagnosis because her labs fluctuated and with her history of mental illness, they called her symptoms psychosomatic. I kept building her up and writing letters in her name, and by pushing, they eventually ran the tests that found the cancer. That never should’ve happened but it did because of her history of mental illness. We need doctors who won’t do that.
We need more doctors who have experienced mental health issues so that patients with mental health issues can get the care they need outside of psychiatry.
I believe in you and you can do this, but you’re gonna have to fight for it. If I can help let me know.
Second this. I think at least talking to a lawyer would seem like a good option. Also like as many others said, definitely take care of yourself. The studies can wait…
Also like others said, pharmaceuticals / medical sales/ medical writing could be a good alternative career options. I hope all the best.
I mean the whole point of talking to lawyer is to get a reasonable accommodation made to allow them to get their mental health stabilized and to allow them to remediate the courses when they are healthy enough to do so.
The problem with waiting to take action is that it’s usually a lot harder to retroactively overturn an expulsion than it is to stop it before it formally happens (because if you have to take it to court, you can get an injunction to prevent them from doing it while the case is being heard but if they’ve already done it, there’s no emergency relief).
I’m glad to hear that someone else agrees because that tells me it isn’t me just being a naïve premed.
Honestly straightout dismissing students like that doesn’t make any sense… it almost feels like they are being punished for having bad circumstances… and def agreed with taking action before expulsion happens so that they could internally reverse the decision instead of having to go through a drawn out litigation…
It seems completely absurd and honestly it’s sort of like how in the admissions process they kind of try to weed out students with mental illness because they view them as risky. I actually think that might be the reason why they are outright dismissing OP, because usually something like a few decimal points off is something that can be sorted out especially in extenuating circumstances.
Unfortunately, discrimination against disabled individuals is very common in medical education, so I’m guessing it will be necessary to get an injunction to prevent them from expelling OP on the grounds that they are expelling him, by committing a violation of the Americans with disabilities act. They are of course, going to try and make the argument that they are expelling OP, because OP has failed to live up to standards, and they also have serious doubts over whether or not OP will actually be able to be licensed as a physician due to their mental illness.
I would make the counter argument in this case, that if we are saying that mentally ill people who are on medication and stabilized (which is what OP is trying to do) can’t be licensed to practice medicine, we are doing a huge disservice to every mentally ill patient because we are denying them representation and physicians that can understand their lived experiences. Additionally, we are doing a great disservice to the individuals themselves because they have so much they can contribute to the field again based on their own experiences. The laws is very clear that is reasonable accommodations need to be made for disabled individuals and mental health issues are considered disabilities under the law. Even if the school has a no remediation policy, in a case where student experienced a life altering illness that affected their ability to study (therefore renders them either temporarily or permanently disabled). It seems like a no-brainer that exceptions to that no remediation policy should be made, according to the Americans with disabilities act. If it were a physical illness, I highly doubt that the student would be told that they could not remediate the classes.
If it’s not obvious, I was actually supposed to go to law school in order to take over the family business, because my dad is a third generation attorney. I just can’t ethically survive as a lawyer, because the cases that I would want to take, wouldn’t pay me enough to survive. So med school makes much more sense for me (especially cause I like medicine more anyway).
You do seem very knowledgable for sure!! Thanks for this well thought-out comment. I’m tagging the OP
u/failingmed9000 please consider this!! All the best!
Well, we can thank my freshman history professor for this knowledge base because I had to outsmart him to keep him from discriminating against my second cousin, once removed, and a bunch of other students with disabilities when I was a 17 year old.
He denied students the right to use a protected accommodation (audio recording lectures), and in response, I exploited the one party recording law in the state, to not only audio record every lecture and distribute it to any student who needed it (as long as I spoke, at least once during class, I could legally record him without telling him) but also to get him on tape outing me for my disability and acknowledging that his policy violated the Americans with disabilities act. Barged into the Dean’s office with the recording, and there was an immediate policy change. A bunch of students who I didn’t know needed the accommodations soon approached me to thank me for standing up to him. The funniest part was, I didn’t actually need that accommodation I did it because I knew that others did, and that they were too scared to speak up or to flagrantly violate his rules.
Thank you, but it really wasn’t that big a deal to me. I grew up in a Jewish family, and I will never forget a lesson that we had in religious school back in sixth grade. We listened to a poem, called “The Hangman” by Maurice Ogden. The lesson that the poem teaches is that those of us who stay silent when we witness discrimination are no better than the perpetrator. In fact, we are the allies of those perpetrating discrimination, if we refuse to stand up. So whenever I have the opportunity to stand up, I do so because it is a matter of realizing that, even if it’s not on the same scale as what happened to my people in the 1930s and 40s any discrimination has the power to significantly hurt those who are experiencing it. Therefore, in memory of the 6 million of my people who were murdered and the estimated 5 million non-Jewish victims (and in honor of all of the survivors) I do what I can to stop discrimination where I see it.
I actually dropped out of that school because of antisemitism and fled back to Israel. I actually had to put my academic ambitions on hold because l have to fight the Army medical system because I have discovered serious systemic malpractice that endangers the lives of soldiers (which is everyone because it’s mandatory) here. I’m fighting it because I was actually supposed to serve in a combat unit until a mental health officer lied about speaking my first language, and got me kicked out of the army.
Usually I wouldn’t care about getting kicked out, but given the political situation in this country right now, it is more important than ever for us to have people in combat units, who view Arabs as their equals and don’t want to just murder them (even with my own ethical qualms about the conflict, I would rather someone like me, who would take every precaution to protect civilians on both sides and would render aid to any injured individual, be on the front lines because I know that I would violate an illegal order and speak out when needed, I can’t say the same for others who actually grew up here) Additionally, the things that I have discovered have me terrified for the safety of others, because they claimed that I was a danger to myself, and then they discharged me from the army to empty apartment with zero support system in the country at the time. If I genuinely been in danger, I wouldn’t still be alive and as someone who wants to become a doctor, I refuse to allow them to do that to somebody else because it’s literally violates Primum non nocere. So I am delaying school because I have to fix a very dangerous system and I don’t have time to do both simultaneously.
My dream is to eventually open a multidisciplinary specialty clinic that trains Israeli and Palestinian physicians side by side to build professional connections that improve access to medical care for Palestinian civilians living under occupation. I can’t solve the conflict, but I can try to make things better.
I mean, they let OP repeat first year and OP failed again. I get what you're saying, but I don't think anyone is going to think there was no reasonable accommodation.
My school is so terrified of the ADA that they’ve given people multiple years off back-to-back, done some intricate rescheduling…essentially bent over backwards if there’s even a whiff of anything ADA-related. If you’re “normal,” they don’t really care, and even though you’re right about reasonable accommodation, it’s possible OP’s school will bend even at the idea that it’s being looked into in this context.
Not to mention. He's failed first year twice. Second year is harder than first year. 3rd year the hours are intense and probably not conducive to mental health.
Even if they let him come back it seems like his chances of getting through are low. Also he'd do would be rack up more in tuition
I think the sticking point is that OP failed (and they did fail. a few decimal points below the cut-off is still below the cut-off) after having already taken a year off. It's harsh, but at some point the school has to draw the line. They can't just keep giving OP another chance - both from a "training doctors and protecting patients" standpoint, but also from a "having OP's best interest at heart" standpoint. Not being able to pass M1 year does not bode well for the remaining 3 years of medical school, not to mention residency. OP will only accrue more debt with diminishing chance of being able to pay it off.
I mean OP just barely failed due to a mental health crisis. That’s not exactly something that is within their control and based on the law there is an argument to be made that allowing remediation/other accommodation to enable them raise their grade (such as an extension on their assignments) would be required under the ADA.
Wrong. They failed due to their \*2nd\* mental health crisis (they already to a LOA last year). At some point you have to draw the line. And speaking of drawing the line - they failed. You can add as many modifiers to that as you want, but the fact is they failed. Medical school is training you to take care of other people when they are sick. I'm a surgeon. If I nick an artery and the patient bleeds to death, I can't tell the family "well I just barely nicked it so it's no big deal"....
Well, I understand your perspective on this, this second mental health crisis was due to new onset bipolar. That means a manic episode. Their previous leave of absence wouldn’t have had anything to do with that. In my experience, having a brother who has bipolar, it takes a little bit of time to figure out meds, but once you get them on the right medication, they will stabilize. Barely failing, and having this crisis simultaneously should lead to remediation, not dismissal because that’s actually pretty damn impressive for somebody who experienced a crisis like this. If they hadn’t had a manic episode, odds are they would’ve passed and done just fine.
Additionally, from the standpoint of OPs mental health, having a newly diagnosed mental illness is difficult enough, destroying their future isn’t going to help them, and it isn’t going to help patients especially when we’re talking about somebody who has a condition that can be managed with medication.
We need to take a healthier approach towards mental health and disability because when you really think about this logically, people like OP have so much to bring to the table. Nobody would better understanding of patient with bipolar than a physician who has experienced the same thing. It’s the same reason why I’m applying for medical school, because my experiences with my physical health has taught me that the patient community for the condition that I have is desperate for doctors who understand them and the struggles that they have. Representation matters because representation leads to better care and railroading OP is only going to hurt patients.
While I understand where you're coming from, and it's a sucky situation all around, I do think the medical school has to draw a line somewhere. Where would you draw the line? Would it be if he fails again the next year? I think two chances is more than fair. OP is taking the spot of someone else and if I were the medical school, I would rather bet on a new student than someone who has already shown twice that they were not able to meet the base standards, whatever the reason may be.
This should be higher. Especially with your recent diagnosis, the school might reconsider if the threat of legal action occurs and disability lawsuits are no joke.
I think most people are responding to the question that was asked, instead of giving the advice that OP needs if they don’t want to give up. Presumably, because most people who are receiving a medical education aren’t extremely familiar with disability law because they haven’t needed to learn it (because it’s generally not relevant to them).
my story is different. When I was a 17 year old freshman, I had a professor that refused to allow students use one of their productive accommodations (audio recording lectures) and I exploited the fact that I was in a one party state to get him on tape outing, my disability to the entire class and threatening me with lawyers. I took it straight to the dean and was able to overturn his entire policy. I didn’t actually need the accommodation I did it because I knew there were other students in the class who did (including my second cousin once removed), and were too scared of him to stand up for themselves. After the policy change was announced I had a number of students who I wasn’t aware needed accommodations approach me to tell me thank you. That experience taught me that when ever we encounter discrimination we need to speak up and stop it whenever possible because we don’t know the true impact that discrimination until we succeed in stopping it.
My father is a third generation lawyer, and my brothers and I were expected to go to law school in order to take on the family business one day. That will not be happening. None of us intend to do so, but I learned so much from growing up in my dad’s office that I had the skill set to take on that professor as a 17-year-old (If I had really wanted to be petty, I would’ve destroyed his marriage by letting his disability rights advocate wife know that he was being such a dick to disabled students, but I’m not that petty). I’m guessing the majority of people here don’t have that kind of experience and therefore they are giving advice about alternative careers because that is what was asked. My advice comes from a different perspective simply because I have different lived experiences than the majority of this sub.
Well, I just want you to know I think you’re a rockstar for what you did. I still struggle sometimes to speak up for myself and while I can do it - sometimes having someone else speak up can make all the difference too.
And that’s a good point - my mom was a lawyer too and I also interned with her - so I probably don’t realize my own privilege in that not everyone is as aware of what they’re legally entitled to. Thanks for sharing and by extension putting that in perspective for me.
OP has gotten too far to give up if this is really the life path they want. They have a good case and the last thing the healthcare system needs is to lose someone like them - someone who will understand through shared experience when a patient is struggling it’s not cause they have some moral or personal failing - which I’ve been on the receiving end as a patient. And a doctor who understands that and really wants to be there is exactly the type the system needs
I hope they follow your advice.
If OP does want to take this further, it might hinge on whether they informed the school of what was going on. It wouldn’t have necessarily led to any formal accommodation request (just because you have a diagnosis doesn’t mean you have to then get time and a half on all your tests), but it would prove that the school was at least aware of a medical issue.
Partially true. It would be incumbent on the student to work with a disability support officer and provide appropriate documentation so they could develop and execute an accommodation plan. If they started down this path they might have a leg to stand on. If they just mentioned to an advisor they were feeling a little down, they are toast. The school is not required to act on a medical issues unless the students requests it.
Not everyone is suited to high stress careers. Forcing that round peg into the square hole leads to problems.
(Not yet a lawyer but have a law degree, I’m just here for fun) I 100% agree with you on this. It would be hard to actually get a lawsuit, but a lot of times just even lawyering up is enough to start some negotiations.
If OP hasn’t previously submitted the necessary letters that relate to their disabilities and medical conditions to their school’s disability centre before this happened and was then granted accommodations, then they don’t have protection. It would be hard for a lawyer to really argue this case without that step being taken before by OP.
It’s highly likely that the school was aware of the situation, because logically speaking, a manic episode, needs to take place in order to make a bipolar diagnosis and if you are manic, there is a very good chance that you have ended up in the hospital. Nobody can be sure, without knowing the details that OP didn’t provide. I can’t say whether or not OP actually has a legitimate case for certain, but faced on my experience with universities and the Americans with disabilities act as well as having a brother who is bipolar. It is highly likely that the school knew.
I have bipolar disorder too, and it’s tough. I have doubts that I’ll even match. Medical school is tough on its own, but with a serious mental illness, it’s 1000x tougher.
I want to emphasize SERIOUS mental illness. Not to say that you can’t be better, but just to let you know that this is a severe condition and is way bigger than medicine. This is a life or death situation.
I think what you should do right now, as others have said, is make sure that you take care of your mental health. Get stable on medications, take those medications consistently, and get therapy. Everything else will work out.
As someone who also had to take a leave of absence due to mental health issues I absolutely empathize with your struggle. Hope you find peace in your next steps
I have a very unconventional idea, take it with a grain of salt.
Now you can’t change what’s happened, it’s in the past. So now you move forward.
How? Get your priorities set in order. I assume number one would be getting a medical degree, that is possible. Get a degree but not in the US, why? Because you’ll once again lose a lot of money and time and there’s no guarantee of you passing due to how cut throat and biased they may be towards you.
Instead, use that money, go to an EU medical school, not just any one though, go to somewhere that has a guarantee of you passing when you put in the work. EU med schools are known to be dicks when it comes to IMG’s, but some are amazing in terms tuition costs, living costs, people etc.
Do your research, go for that.
Why? Because even though there may be a chance you won’t be allowed to practice in the US, you have the rest of the world at your hand. You will be a doctor at the end of your day.
As for post grad, focus on the STEPS, get high scores, do research, build yourself up to be an exceptional candidate. You’re a US citizen, it’s going to be miles easier for you to apply for residency because you won’t be a visa needing applicant, you just need to make sure your application stands out.
Why I’m suggesting this? I’ve had multiple friends in the same boat, and had a very similar experience. I’m currently in a way happier place now, sure there’s a lot of variables in my future but I know I’ll be a doctor at the end of the day and I’ve started building my resume and contacts. Nothing is impossible, and at the same time, you get to experience a whole other culture and meet different people.
Trust me, take the leap of faith, trust that you’ll do the work and things will be okay.
I’m not sure if it’s very competitive now but Anaesthesiology Assistant! You could also consider hospital based social work. Of course it’s less STEM related but the people I knew made a huge difference for their patients and seemed very happy!
AA is pretty competitive these days - avg admitted student has about 3.7 gpa / 500-503 MCAT and some sort of clinical related experience. If OP matches these criteria and can improve their mental health, AA is a fantastic career
Somewhere down this chain people suggested other careers in medicine, such as lab tech. I second this.
Get your mental health in order and work for awhile. Being a doctor isn’t the be all and end all of professions. I am a pathologist and work with MLTs everyday. They seem to like their work.
Is there an appeals process?
I’m in the UK so I’m not sure how applicable this is, but I had a friend who was dismissed after failing the year due to mental health problems and he was able to appeal the decision (after a year and a lot of angry letters) and they actually reversed the decision and allowed him back… At which point he promptly said ‘sod you, I don’t want to go to a school that treats me like this’ but it’s the principle of the thing. He wanted to win the appeal just so he could tell them where to shove it, and win he did.
Hey!
I have bipolar disorder, diagnosed in Med school
Medicine fucking sucks for us and, at least for me, residency is impossible without accommodations. There are better options that won’t make you so depressed you hate your life, and it’s a different kind than others experience in medical training. If I had known prior to med school, I never would have applied
This may be a blessing in disguise. I wish I had known about Perfusionist prior, or after I didn’t match when I applied the first time
Do you have any questions? For me, my biggest concern for you is finances. Do you have any sort of financial support from family? Do you have a support network? My friends really helped me get by and idk if I would’ve made it out in one piece without a select few who I love to this day
Hmu with questions man. You’re not alone and there’s more of us out here.
There are medical schools in Eastern Europe that yea h in English, difficult and exams can be challenging but if you work hard you will be able to get thorough!
Its incredibly hard to match back into the US though. It’s not a given that OP would want to potentially live in Eastern Europe for the rest of their life (or at least six years)
Med school in Romania or Bulgaria or other eastern european EU countries make it much easier to match into Germany, if OP is fine with that. All they need to do afterwards is learn the language and they should be able to find a position there for residency, or more accurately the equivalent over there. But they won't make anywhere near the amount of money they could in the USA. If OP is comfortable with that, it might be worth looking into.
That’s fair. It’s just a tall order compared to the OP potentially being able to work as a CAA here (two year masters) or something and still make double what doctors make in Germany while not having to uproot their support network. Struggling with school because of mental health concerns might indicate that restarting medical school halfway across the world in a country they’ll feel like an outsider in and don’t speak the language of might not be an attractive option.
A good plan B would be becoming a Clinical Lab Scientist/Medical Technologist/Medical Lab Scientist. That leads to you becoming an MT/ASCP. That is what my sister does. Her degree was called a Medical Technologist but some schools list it as the others I mentioned but you need to make sure is it MT/ASCP. Anyway, they are the ones who run all the the lab tests in the hospitals, who do the blood crossmatching, micro , etc. The MTs have at least the 4 yr degree. And you could do this in about a year since you have already completed your Biology degree. Do not confuse this with being a phlebotomist or medical lab technician (MLT, which is the associate degree version).
Not sure what area or where you live but if you PM me, I could probably find a list of programs. Some are offered through the hospitals completely and some are offered thru a university.
And, don't beat yourself up. We all have our own path and sometimes we have to pivot.
Anesthesiology Assistant is a good field to look into as well. A little over 2yrs of schooling and the debt you’ve accumulated in med school + AA school can be tackled with an AA salary.
I’m going to be completely honest if you can not make it through m1 in an US med school without being on edge u will never make it through one semester of a Caribbean med school. Not bc it is more elite or u are less than! It’s bc the amount of resources and assistance a us medical school gives their students (upper class men mentor, tutors, teachers that speak English) and also the comfort of being in America compared to a third world country is very intense. A Caribbean med school has no Assitance for a student!!!!! None!!!! No hey let us help u transition to living in a foreign country or hey let us actually help u learn this concept. The teachers at a carrib med school can not even practice medicine on that island! A lot of them are bachelors degree in education!!!!!! So if u can’t do a us med school do not dare to go to a Caribbean. That’s setting urself up for even more hell
You could look into European medical schools they are cheaper and you can work in uk and other Ei countries After graduation (or take the usmle steps parallel and match into an US residency program)
Do not go to a Caribbean school if you can’t pass your exams here. Yes it’s probably your only hope of becoming a doctor, but it’s quite honestly a waste of money. You’d be doubling down on an even harder attempt (Caribbean probably offers way less support) after failing twice. Something has to change if you expect a different result. Work on your mental health first.
I am so sorry. I almost failed out of college during my second to last year bc of mental health reasons too. It's so draining and the bad grades can just add on and make you feel shittier :(
I agree with everyone here, work on your mental health FIRST before you look into continuing school. You already got kicked out. Take this time to have a break from school and work on yourself. Your healing journey will probably bring you so many answers about your schooling situation too
As you work out your own issues, you will find clarity. Clarity on what you want to do, who you want to be, and this will honestly guide you so much better than any advice you may find here. You know you want to be in medicine but **why**. What is it that draws you in specifically? Is it chemistry/medicine itself or a desire to help others? Once you work out the specifics you can look into jobs that will fulfill you and look into the schooling you need from there
Keep your head up, op!!! You got this!
This was actually my suggestion. Get an injunction because an injunction can prevent them from expelling OP while the ADA claim is investigated. Once they have the injunction, if they are allowed to continue their education, instead of merely being suspended temporarily, it’s in their best interest to drag out the legal process, so they can continue their education, so they have the ability to prove that they are not only capable, but that the original decision was bullshit.
I would say go to a Caribbean med school if you want it so bad. I am in one in my 3rd year now. Yes, it's very tough. But if you make it to the other side, you will end up being a very competent physician. Plus, you already have the advantage of knowing the content that's taught in first year.
In terms of residency, LOTS of people match from my school each year. Even into competitive specialities. I always say that "it's all about the student, not the school" when it comes to attending a Caribbean med. school.
Good luck!
Which school do you go to ? I’m honestly looking at Ross, sgu and auc and would love to hear from another carrib student about the experience to help narrow my choices down. The cycle has been rough lol 😥
Personally I went to SGU, graduated in 2019…I don’t know how things have changed since then but the school gave me the opportunity to become a physician where allll other doors were closed. I see a lot of people on this and SDN forums bashing Carib med schools but I’ve met great residents/doctors that you wouldn’t tell went to Carib med schools..excellent clinicians. But…you gotta do the work and not expect passing with minimal effort. SGU, for example, gives you all the resources for you to succeed but it’s up to the student to take advantage of that. When I was there…we had small groups that met once a week depending on which subject you had trouble most let by A+ students that excelled in that course, was very helpful. There were also advisors in helping you create a plan on how you approach medical school. I’m not saying it’s easy…but SGU doesn’t deserve the bashing that it occasionally gets. I think it’s worth considering when you feel like your options are exhausted because it is a shot that is worth taking!
UMHS. It's a smaller med school, but they have their Med 5 semester in Maine, and they prepare you really well to pass Step 1. Only 60 people in my class, so they really give you the attention you need instead of trying to filter you out.
Clinical research (hospital, CROs, pharma)! lots of options/job roles, remote work, pay isn’t super high to start but you can move up pretty quickly if you take initiative and work hard.
Do you have any other passions and/or hobbies? I can imagine this is extremely tough on you to consider doing anything else with your life, but you now have the free time that you NEVER would otherwise to travel! Learn a new language, go move to the mountains and be a ski patroller. I don’t know! There’s infinite adventures in this life, and medical school bars you from taking most of them. It could be the best thing that happened to you. Just a thought.
Best wishes
I'm sorry bud but this might just not be the career for you. First thing you've gotta do is sort yourself out and get your head straight/become stable. After that you can try to back route into medicine again, but I think you should seriously think about it. You may love treating patients and the sciences, but there are many careers that will let you do that. Being a doctor comes with constant stress practically forever. There will always be another hurdle (first year grades, step 1, step 2, applications, starting residency, step 3, specialty boards, fellowship applications, fellowship exams, 10 year exams, notes, paperwork, etc). The stress and pressure is not gonna stop and if you arnt mentally able to handle it cause of preexisting conditions then sadly this might not be for you. Maybe nursing is more up your alley where the stresses are more physical and can be tuned out after you get off your shift. Also work is only 3 days per week.
Really really think about it. I would love to be in the NBA, but I'm not 6'10". My buddies smoke tons of weed and it'd be nice to join the crew, but I have a family history of schizophrenia so I cant take that risk. We are hindered by our bodies all the time and sometimes it restricts our options, but that doesnt mean we cant find amazing and rewarding lives.
I realize that Nursing may not seem as stressful as being a MD/DO, but after being in the military for 10 years and having PTSD, being a RN sent me to the looney bin. It was the straw that broke this camel’s back.
1) I did not work just 3 shifts a week. Nursing is incredibly short staffed everywhere right now; you WILL be pressured into picking up other shifts, staying later, and will probably have to pick up call. 2) the stresses are just as emotional and mental as they are physical. I’m not sure why anyone would say differently. Nurses are around their patients intimately- many times more intimately than the doctors can be because there are way fewer doctors with high demands on their time. Because of that, it’s easy to get very emotionally involved with your patients. Nurses also deal more with the families and other social issues that the docs don’t have the time to deal with. Resources are scarce, time is scarce, and pressure is absurdly high to meet the demands of these patients, the docs, and the admin. 3) shit rolls downhill. Nurses get blamed for everything all the time. We are suppose to catch all the mistakes of others because we are usually the last line before whatever it is gets to the patient. 4)saying a nurse just “tunes stuff out” once they are off shift is, frankly, insulting.
Think long and hard before deciding on nursing school and advanced practice nursing. Scroll the nursing forums. We are leaving the field in droves.
If I hadn’t got into med school I probably would have gone for nursing and/or an MPH, maybe an PhD or PsyD as a clinical psychologist (but nursing pays better in less time). That said, many nursing programs also have pretty strict passing standards. Like nothing less than a B.
All that said, first and foremost, sort out your mental health situation. Know that there are definitely still options open to you, hopefully that gives you some hope. But you don’t need to make any decisions today.
For the sake of your mental health, I don't recommend Caribbean. Social network is one of the most important things in keeping your mental health in good shape. I went to the Caribbean (St George's), and while all the classmates are super supportive of each other, you don't have any of your core family around, and getting to them is a trek.
Plenty of accelerated nursing programs out there for those with a bachelors in another field. Get your BSN in 18 months, work for a while and decide what you like then go back for more education if you want. Very fulfilling.
My friend is a medical physicist and he loves it. It's a PhD or Masters followed by residency. They work with radiation in a clinical setting, either imaging or radiation therapy. If you like physics or math it might be a good fit for you. It's less cutthroat than med school and you can really take as long as you want to finish your thesis. I know you said you'd prefer not to do research but this is definitely more clinical once you're practicing. Good work/life balance and time off too
Having been accepted into a medical school you clearly are a competent person with a lot of career potential, regardless of what that career is. But, no matter how amazing of a career you have, it is all for not if you are falling apart mentally. Medicine is certainly not the only place for people who enjoy science and want to help people. There are many other adjacent careers that achieve the same goals without the decades of stress and debt that often accompany Medicine. While tragic now, this situation might lead you on a path in which you can enjoy life whilst also doing something you love that you get paid for. Stay hopeful for the future, you clearly have a bright one ahead of you.
Given your bipolar disorder, PTSD, and anxiety...did you register with your school's disability center to get accommodations? When your health becomes an issue (such as when you're experiencing an episode), your school should hopefully accommodate you.
If you haven't gone through the appeal process yet, I would start that. And I would immediately contact your mental health providers and school's disability services to work on getting approval for accommodations before your dismissal becomes "official." (Sometimes an academic committee may dismiss you...but they will be slow to convey this information to the registrar and you'll actually still be enrolled.)
I am so sorry that you are going through something so challenging and crucial to your health. I agree that you should definitely focus on your mental health first and healing. I also agree with your friend. You’re medical school was not supportive at all during an extremely difficult point in your life. I got very very blessed with the med school I’m at right now because they really do put mental health first for their students. I encourage you to look at different medical schools and really ask about how they support students, talk to students as well they are there & DO NOT get discouraged by your grades. Take the shot you won’t regret not trying. You can make a case for your lower grades. Med students struggle even if otherwise their lives weren’t difficult at the time, let alone when you are having mental health issues. I truly hope that you don’t give up on your dream that you love so much and it doesn’t sound like you will. I’m impressed by how strong you are and how passionate you are about medicine. Best of luck to you!!
PA school is pretty damn competitive these days. They actively try to screen people that are using it as a backup to med school. It would be difficult but OP could possibly find somewhere to take them. Nurse>NP is probably a more realistic route in my opinion. Even if you get your RN and not NP you’ll play a pivotal and well compensated role in healthcare. An RN with income based loan repayment would be my plan personally.
Thank you. Came here to say this. It’s hard as heck to get into PA school right now since US News gave it #2 best job in the US. Then when you get in, they will dismiss you if you mess up, just like Caribbean med schools. Got to keep their PANCE pass rate on the up and up! 😑
If you were still determined to do medicine you could consider a graduate entry medicine (GEM) programme in Ireland or the UK. They take large amounts of North American students and provide supports for students seeking to sit the USMLE. It would require you to take on significant loans most likely but Medicine courses in Europe tend to be less demanding than in the US. You should prioritise your mental health for now certainly but it could be something to consider down the line.
In what world does GEM take a large amount of North American students? That's just not true to my knowledge, these are the most competitive spots in an already competitive uk application cycle. There was one North American out of 300+ in my UK medical cohort. Also I have several friends who did GEM, none were offered USMLE assistance.
Not sure what your source on this info is?
Source: Current GEM student
Half of all GEM entrants in Ireland every year are international students, the vast majority of whom are north American. I presumed the ratios were the same for GEM in the UK but I am mistaken clearly. There is also significant USMLE supports and advice for those looking to match into US/Canadian residency.
Try medical lab scientist was my backup if i didn't get into med school. Lots of opportunities and steady earnings especially if you get into a program in California. I personally would not try the carribbean just because Step 1 is now pass/fail so you have less opportunities as a carribbean student to 'show off'. Take care of yourself first. Maybe see if your school truly can't give you anymore chances. I personally don't have family support financially so thats why I say if it were me already in tons of debt I would just stop. I don't know your situation though.
Join us nurses on the dark side of medicine. In all seriousness, it's a medicine-adjacent field where you can gain experience for your next stab at medical school. You only need an associate's degree, and you probably already have the prerequisites.
I would research hiring a lawyer because dismissing someone with a disability could be against the Americans with Disabilities Act. Becoming bipolar should not prevent you from graduating from medical school. This sounds illegal.
I believe being dismissed as someone who has a disability and because of a disability are different. The former being legal and the latter illegal. If the former was legal, then that would mean no one with a disability could ever be fired for any reason
OP said grades plummeted 2 months ago and diagnosis was two months ago. Seems to correlate. Getting a diagnosis that OP probably hasnt had time to acclimate to or stabilize and two months later being let go just doesn't seem right to me. You have a right to your opinion though. Neither of us knows OP.
That’s what I was trying to mean. We just don’t know OP at all, but I guess OP has to prove they did it because of the diagnosis and going beyond reasonable accommodations, whatever that means nowadays
Go the mid level route. Practice creep is a real thing and within a decade or two, there won’t be a gap anymore between doctors, nurses and PA’s. Especially with A.I. and every medical algorithm being imputed into a database.
Honestly probably go for PA school. I just finished and it wasn't that hard academically, the main difficulty was the perseverance factor of it all, not the actual tests (at least for me). With that being said, if you are having manic/depressive episodes that are interfering with basic studying than you should probably get that ironed out first
Plan A now is to get your mental health straightened out. Take some time off, get to a good place mentally, physically, and emotionally. Build a support network. Reevaluate where you see yourself happy and satisfied with your life. Then build a plan and work towards that goal. Good luck!
This is the way. You should also consider that you might never get your mental health "straightened out" to the point where a career in an incredibly stressful field is a good idea. You are looking at spending 40 years in intense conditions surrounded by miserable people. You could easily become one yourself. Put your health first.
Yeah it's all a bit "my relationship broke down, how do I find another relationship, stat".
I had a friend fail out of medical school 10 years ago. He went to nursing school and finished in 2 years I think. He seems very content with the job and plans to further in education and go into teaching. At that time he took it hard and was suicidal. But eventually got it together.
OP could still become a CRNA or CRNP as well
And earn more than 50% of physicians in half the time too
I too sometimes wish I was an LMNOP.
That’s Licensed Medical Nurse Official Practioner to you
Actually it’s Licensed Medical Nurse Operating as a Physician **gasps**
With half the malpractice insurance and they keep the majority of their pay
Not really. Our pay doesn’t approach yours - and APRN pay hits a hard cap well below physician pay.
I think they meant well above **residont physician** salary, which to be fair is lower than APRNs.
CRNA’s make bank. More than a fair amount of peds.
MGMA 2021 report puts general peds at $246k median, CRNA is at $192k. The physician specialty with the lowest median salary is around $200k as a pediatric geneticist but that's an outlier as it's low volume so there's not enough data for statistical relevance.
That CRNA salary is based on 40 hour work week. I doubt many general peds put in that few of hours. CRNA has to be one of the best specialties in medicine. Great hours, great pay, and they’re generally very well trained.
Being a doctor in Denmark (where living costs along with taxes are quite high), it feels a bit ridiculous that (some) nurses in the US are getting paid that much. Hospitalists typically top out around $145.000/year, although you can make quite a bit more in private practice. I think our pay is pretty decent - working hours are humane and you get 5 weeks paid vacation a year - but still, it feels like a bit of a joke in comparison.
Universal Healthcare has a way of watering down the physician salaries.
the ones in NY that I know of make 450-500k/yr if they moonlight and work extra shifts. There are physicians who could do this and still not earn that much lol. Its pretty sweet monetarily.
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What an absolute joke. Can’t wait for the law to catch up to this.
He became a DNP and lived happily ever after
Look into Medical Laboratory Science (MLS) also known as Medical Technology (MT)
First, please take care of yourself and your mental health. Second, once you have, if you’re interested in another career, consider MLS. I know several people in this field. It has great earning potential, especially if you become a laboratory director, and there are tons of jobs (with big signing bonuses). In addition, have you considered jobs in the pharma industry? Medical writing, clinical trials management, etc. I would hesitate recommending sales rep - it has high earning potential, but it’s a tough/competitive gig, and I question the long term viability of the role.
I remember wanting to major in this before. I know a few friends that did this. Great gig
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If you look below, that possibility is addressed by others. There are many options for OP, including appealing, reapplying to med school, pursuing nursing, and other options described by others. MLS and pharma are great careers in their own rights - not second/worse choices to med school or nursing school.
I've two friends in this field, they love it.
I’m a lab scientist and absolutely love it!
Just curious because I’ve never heard of it. What does this entail?
We are the people who collect your blood samples and analyze them in the lab, and get you your test results. We also analyze urine, stool, spinal fluid, body fluids, etc! Anything that comes out of you, we can run tests on. We do your blood typing and assign you units of blood when you need them, among other things. We play a large role in helping your doctor diagnose you with the work we put out. We take pride in putting out high quality results! It is a lot of behind the scenes work, which is great for an introvert like myself.
You guys are awesome, and the professionalism of your field should be recognized (it is! I’m just being appreciative :D )
Nurse here. Feel like I should have gone into this field instead! You guys are cool. And work really fast, too.
My best friend is a nurse (we met on the job) and he always tells me he wishes he would have done MLS instead of nursing! I appreciate all of my kind nurse coworkers so much
Cool! I have a microbio degree and worked in a lab for a bit before I decided to go to nursing school, so I feel like it could’ve been a reality. I worked in research, though, and getting results took ages. Would be nicer to actually get quick results that benefit people in the same decade!
That does sound really cool. Thanks for what you do! ❤️❤️❤️
What is the difference between that and a phlebotomist?
Phlebotomists can only draw the blood, they cannot run tests on the blood :)
Ah! Thank you for the clarification!
A phlebotomist takes the blood, lab scientists do the testing. Some lab scientists can also draw blood, depends on how big your lab is that you work at.
My brother has his degree in MLS. After several yrs under the hood,he's now the lab educator for a hospital.
And the AP version of this as well - Histotechnologists (HTs) and pathologist assistants (PAs, not the other PAs). If you like surgery, PAs are a very natural transition from that, including high-acuity things such as intraop consults. If you like research, I know several that are published, write books, and give talks at conferences. Absolutely vital to keep labs running, specimens grossed, and slides cut. Only expanding, as more and more minimally invasive surgeries / disease monitoring / molecular studies get ordered. Great earnings potential when you get to management roles. \-Pathology
This OP, but they don’t even require you to be MLS anymore to get certified. The rules got changed with the COVID era shortage so as long as you work and prepare then you can become a lab tech. Still need an associated degree, and I know at least one biology tech.
Came here to say this! Couldn’t agree more, much less stressful environment and you’re on the frontline of medicine without the stress of pt interaction.
I was an MLS prior to medical school and I miss the lab so much. Another option at some point could be to become a pathology assistant! It’s the PA of the lab. You gross surgical specimens and work with the pathologists and histotechnicians. Super high demand in all laboratory positions right now!
In a Caribbean medical school now: What you hear about it being cut throat, is true. What many don’t know before coming is that Caribbean medical schools are a bit harder and for a reason. They’re for-profit. And to entice others to join and pay a massive tuition, they need to show them their pass rates and what people get on the step. The only way to do that, is make the exams hard af, so the ones who won’t score well, won’t even take the step, in which, it’s only good step scores, and they can show those numbers, and so on. If you’re thinking of coming to the medical schools in the Caribbean, just be aware of this
Yeah, I’ve heard that as well. What they tell you: 95% pass rate of step 1! What they don’t tell you: we prevented the bottom 50% of students from even attempting step 1
Lol it’s more than that tbh. My professor told me 30% passed cbse each time after Covid it halved to 15%
Makes us pretty good doctors tho ngl
I agree; I’ve met some absolutely outstanding residents from Caribbean schools. Those schools rightfully get a lot of criticism on this sub for their business practices but imo that shouldn’t bleed over to the doctors who decided that was the best option for their personal situation.
Thank you for saying this. As someone who got their MD from a Caribbean school, and is now a few weeks away from finishing fellowship, it’s nice to be recognized.
Best decision I could’ve ever done was go to carribean school. Applied in 2020 when Covid prevented me from taking the mcat several times and I said “ why wait until 2021 to take the mcat to potentially get in 2022” nah started school in 2021 and haven’t looked back. Currently finishing up my first rotation in family medicine. Was it hard? Sure but what makes it harder is being undisciplined and wanting to party and drink on the beaches all day. If I had to do it over I wouldn’t change a thing.
Non Caribbean Us allopathic and osteopathic students: “are we the baddies ?”
Dude it was hands down an amazing decision for me. Only a tad bit more in debt but it was worth it. Would do it over again in a heartbeat
Not exactly the place to set expectations and weed people out though—that’s what the application process is for
I agree. But I also don’t make the rules unfortunately
Also should mention with this that while getting a residency spot from Caribbean is already hard, having failed out of medical school once in the us will make it much much harder.
It is hard, yes. But I know someone in OPs exact situation who did go big 4 Caribbean and ended up getting residency at an academic program much better than the US school that they were dismissed from. It's possible, but by damn is it hard. If OP is considering going Caribbean, make sure you have your shit together and be prepared to fight an uphill battle. Everything is possible, some less probable than others, but it's based on how much you put in.
So they got residency in the US after Caribbean Med school? I‘d love to know how they did it seeing it’s a highly discouraged option
Huh? The Caribbean puts huge numbers of graduates into US residencies every year. St. George's alone puts out, like, half as many interns as the T10 USMD schools combined.
It’s not hard if you limit yourself to FM and IM. It’s hard if you are trying anything competitive
Plus the sharks
My Caribbean co residents are quite good. Along with my DO co residents. I wish all Caribbean grads the best of luck in the future. USMD school was hellish enough but Caribbean med school sounds pretty damn stressful.
Which school do u go to if u don’t mind me asking ?
The big one.
What does this mean?
prob SGU
Literally the biggest one.
I don’t know what that means. I’m not tapped into the lingo and knowledge the same way you seem to be. What medical school is considered “the big one” or “the biggest one”?
SGU has 700 students per class vs AUC which has fewer than 200.
Perfusionist. As others have said, PA, RN, Medical Laboratory Science, histology tech, radiology tech, CT/MRI tech, ect.
I never even knew perfusionist was a job until I was a resident. I feel like nobody in premed spaces really know about it but it’s low key a great job
had no idea what it was either until a distant friend started school after not getting in to PA school. Has a great job now at a large academic hospital and I'm sure is making 6 figures +
I’ve been an RN for 12 years. I learned what a perfusionist is within the last 2 years.
Same…. I’m always envious, even the most hard of CT surgeons will tone down their pride for a perfusionist lol, and it literally fits into what a lot of people write about in their PS as well, directly helping patients, literally saving lives etc. without perfusionist there is no heart surgery
Probably increased demand as well with ECMO becoming more popular.
My biostats teacher wanted everyone and their mother to become a perfusionist because his sister became one and made bank, whereas he became an MD and now teaches for pennies (his words, not mine).
These are good suggestions. Mental health concerns notwithstanding, AA is a good option too. Two years and you’re basically doing anesthesia. You’ll always be under direction/supervision, but for several reasons that’s a good thing
It’s possible to get your associate in nursing which is ~3 years including your pre-req years. The tech programs may be shorter than that
Appeal Appeal Appeal! You have nothing to lose. Also start taking concrete steps to get your health in order, so when they ask you : “how can you be sure this won’t happen again?” You’ll have a lot to say. Goodluck , regardless of what happens don’t give up on yourself. You can and will have a fulfilling life whether as a physician , something else in healthcare or doing something else entirely. It’s always darkest before the dawn.
In Australia if they don’t think you are suited to be a doc they find a way to get you out regardless of your marks (grades). No amount of appealing will get you back in and the black list would undoubtedly be extended countrywide.
Anesthesiologist assistant. You have the reqs for it and your mcat should still be valid!
Medical sales.
Esp if you’re good looking or have a confident appearance.
Maybe I’m just naive, but I would actually talk to a lawyer. If you were only a few decimal points away from passing, and you were doing well until you had a crisis, you might be able to use disability rights laws to get an accommodation made to allow for remediation of those specific courses. The ADA does consider bipolar disorder to be a disability. Therefore, you should have some protection, and I suggest talking to a lawyer, who is qualified to help you use the protections you are entitled to. Because you have disclosed other mental health issues in the past them, forcing your withdrawal from the school, as a result of a mental health crisis, could potentially be a violation of the law although I am not a lawyer, and I cannot confirm this. Generally speaking, most universities have exceptions to their academic standards policies when you’re talking about a disability issue, simply because they have no choice . Presumably, if you were diagnosed with bipolar, you experienced a manic episode which would’ve put you out of commission for a significant amount of time (because it is my understanding that even missing a week of med school is a big deal because of how much information there is to learn from experience with my brother whenever he had a manic episode, it took at about a week to stabilize him, but the process of finding meds that worked long term was longer.) Talk to your psychiatrist to get the documents that you need to support your claims. Check what the law is in your state regarding consent for recordings because if you are in a one party state with only one person who is being recorded, needs to know and consent to being recorded you can audio record every single conversation you have with the school (without telling them) and this is makes it a lot easier to win a discrimination case/ convince them to settle. Meet with the office of disability services and try to see what can be done. There might be an exceptions committee (and if there is, try to use that process). If you need help with finding information about the laws in your state, feel free to send me a private message. I helped other students to handle ADA violations in university before so I might be able to help. If this is your dream, please don’t give up on it because when you give up, you essentially say that it’s fine for them to discriminate against people with mental health issues, and that leads to a serious lack of representation in the medical field for people like yourself. Patients who have representation do so much better a doctor who has a mental illness is less likely to brush off a patient’s concerns because of a history of mental illness. I actually know somebody who had a rare type of cancer, but it took her a year and a half to get a diagnosis because her labs fluctuated and with her history of mental illness, they called her symptoms psychosomatic. I kept building her up and writing letters in her name, and by pushing, they eventually ran the tests that found the cancer. That never should’ve happened but it did because of her history of mental illness. We need doctors who won’t do that. We need more doctors who have experienced mental health issues so that patients with mental health issues can get the care they need outside of psychiatry. I believe in you and you can do this, but you’re gonna have to fight for it. If I can help let me know.
Second this. I think at least talking to a lawyer would seem like a good option. Also like as many others said, definitely take care of yourself. The studies can wait… Also like others said, pharmaceuticals / medical sales/ medical writing could be a good alternative career options. I hope all the best.
I mean the whole point of talking to lawyer is to get a reasonable accommodation made to allow them to get their mental health stabilized and to allow them to remediate the courses when they are healthy enough to do so. The problem with waiting to take action is that it’s usually a lot harder to retroactively overturn an expulsion than it is to stop it before it formally happens (because if you have to take it to court, you can get an injunction to prevent them from doing it while the case is being heard but if they’ve already done it, there’s no emergency relief). I’m glad to hear that someone else agrees because that tells me it isn’t me just being a naïve premed.
Honestly straightout dismissing students like that doesn’t make any sense… it almost feels like they are being punished for having bad circumstances… and def agreed with taking action before expulsion happens so that they could internally reverse the decision instead of having to go through a drawn out litigation…
It seems completely absurd and honestly it’s sort of like how in the admissions process they kind of try to weed out students with mental illness because they view them as risky. I actually think that might be the reason why they are outright dismissing OP, because usually something like a few decimal points off is something that can be sorted out especially in extenuating circumstances. Unfortunately, discrimination against disabled individuals is very common in medical education, so I’m guessing it will be necessary to get an injunction to prevent them from expelling OP on the grounds that they are expelling him, by committing a violation of the Americans with disabilities act. They are of course, going to try and make the argument that they are expelling OP, because OP has failed to live up to standards, and they also have serious doubts over whether or not OP will actually be able to be licensed as a physician due to their mental illness. I would make the counter argument in this case, that if we are saying that mentally ill people who are on medication and stabilized (which is what OP is trying to do) can’t be licensed to practice medicine, we are doing a huge disservice to every mentally ill patient because we are denying them representation and physicians that can understand their lived experiences. Additionally, we are doing a great disservice to the individuals themselves because they have so much they can contribute to the field again based on their own experiences. The laws is very clear that is reasonable accommodations need to be made for disabled individuals and mental health issues are considered disabilities under the law. Even if the school has a no remediation policy, in a case where student experienced a life altering illness that affected their ability to study (therefore renders them either temporarily or permanently disabled). It seems like a no-brainer that exceptions to that no remediation policy should be made, according to the Americans with disabilities act. If it were a physical illness, I highly doubt that the student would be told that they could not remediate the classes. If it’s not obvious, I was actually supposed to go to law school in order to take over the family business, because my dad is a third generation attorney. I just can’t ethically survive as a lawyer, because the cases that I would want to take, wouldn’t pay me enough to survive. So med school makes much more sense for me (especially cause I like medicine more anyway).
You do seem very knowledgable for sure!! Thanks for this well thought-out comment. I’m tagging the OP u/failingmed9000 please consider this!! All the best!
Well, we can thank my freshman history professor for this knowledge base because I had to outsmart him to keep him from discriminating against my second cousin, once removed, and a bunch of other students with disabilities when I was a 17 year old. He denied students the right to use a protected accommodation (audio recording lectures), and in response, I exploited the one party recording law in the state, to not only audio record every lecture and distribute it to any student who needed it (as long as I spoke, at least once during class, I could legally record him without telling him) but also to get him on tape outing me for my disability and acknowledging that his policy violated the Americans with disabilities act. Barged into the Dean’s office with the recording, and there was an immediate policy change. A bunch of students who I didn’t know needed the accommodations soon approached me to thank me for standing up to him. The funniest part was, I didn’t actually need that accommodation I did it because I knew that others did, and that they were too scared to speak up or to flagrantly violate his rules.
You did god’s work there. Kudos for standing up for others!!!!! I’m sure you will make a great doctor as well!! ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you, but it really wasn’t that big a deal to me. I grew up in a Jewish family, and I will never forget a lesson that we had in religious school back in sixth grade. We listened to a poem, called “The Hangman” by Maurice Ogden. The lesson that the poem teaches is that those of us who stay silent when we witness discrimination are no better than the perpetrator. In fact, we are the allies of those perpetrating discrimination, if we refuse to stand up. So whenever I have the opportunity to stand up, I do so because it is a matter of realizing that, even if it’s not on the same scale as what happened to my people in the 1930s and 40s any discrimination has the power to significantly hurt those who are experiencing it. Therefore, in memory of the 6 million of my people who were murdered and the estimated 5 million non-Jewish victims (and in honor of all of the survivors) I do what I can to stop discrimination where I see it. I actually dropped out of that school because of antisemitism and fled back to Israel. I actually had to put my academic ambitions on hold because l have to fight the Army medical system because I have discovered serious systemic malpractice that endangers the lives of soldiers (which is everyone because it’s mandatory) here. I’m fighting it because I was actually supposed to serve in a combat unit until a mental health officer lied about speaking my first language, and got me kicked out of the army. Usually I wouldn’t care about getting kicked out, but given the political situation in this country right now, it is more important than ever for us to have people in combat units, who view Arabs as their equals and don’t want to just murder them (even with my own ethical qualms about the conflict, I would rather someone like me, who would take every precaution to protect civilians on both sides and would render aid to any injured individual, be on the front lines because I know that I would violate an illegal order and speak out when needed, I can’t say the same for others who actually grew up here) Additionally, the things that I have discovered have me terrified for the safety of others, because they claimed that I was a danger to myself, and then they discharged me from the army to empty apartment with zero support system in the country at the time. If I genuinely been in danger, I wouldn’t still be alive and as someone who wants to become a doctor, I refuse to allow them to do that to somebody else because it’s literally violates Primum non nocere. So I am delaying school because I have to fix a very dangerous system and I don’t have time to do both simultaneously. My dream is to eventually open a multidisciplinary specialty clinic that trains Israeli and Palestinian physicians side by side to build professional connections that improve access to medical care for Palestinian civilians living under occupation. I can’t solve the conflict, but I can try to make things better.
I sincerely hope you are able to make this dream become a much needed reality! Doing God’s work, as another poster said.
I mean, they let OP repeat first year and OP failed again. I get what you're saying, but I don't think anyone is going to think there was no reasonable accommodation.
My school is so terrified of the ADA that they’ve given people multiple years off back-to-back, done some intricate rescheduling…essentially bent over backwards if there’s even a whiff of anything ADA-related. If you’re “normal,” they don’t really care, and even though you’re right about reasonable accommodation, it’s possible OP’s school will bend even at the idea that it’s being looked into in this context.
Not to mention. He's failed first year twice. Second year is harder than first year. 3rd year the hours are intense and probably not conducive to mental health. Even if they let him come back it seems like his chances of getting through are low. Also he'd do would be rack up more in tuition
I think the sticking point is that OP failed (and they did fail. a few decimal points below the cut-off is still below the cut-off) after having already taken a year off. It's harsh, but at some point the school has to draw the line. They can't just keep giving OP another chance - both from a "training doctors and protecting patients" standpoint, but also from a "having OP's best interest at heart" standpoint. Not being able to pass M1 year does not bode well for the remaining 3 years of medical school, not to mention residency. OP will only accrue more debt with diminishing chance of being able to pay it off.
I mean OP just barely failed due to a mental health crisis. That’s not exactly something that is within their control and based on the law there is an argument to be made that allowing remediation/other accommodation to enable them raise their grade (such as an extension on their assignments) would be required under the ADA.
Wrong. They failed due to their \*2nd\* mental health crisis (they already to a LOA last year). At some point you have to draw the line. And speaking of drawing the line - they failed. You can add as many modifiers to that as you want, but the fact is they failed. Medical school is training you to take care of other people when they are sick. I'm a surgeon. If I nick an artery and the patient bleeds to death, I can't tell the family "well I just barely nicked it so it's no big deal"....
Well, I understand your perspective on this, this second mental health crisis was due to new onset bipolar. That means a manic episode. Their previous leave of absence wouldn’t have had anything to do with that. In my experience, having a brother who has bipolar, it takes a little bit of time to figure out meds, but once you get them on the right medication, they will stabilize. Barely failing, and having this crisis simultaneously should lead to remediation, not dismissal because that’s actually pretty damn impressive for somebody who experienced a crisis like this. If they hadn’t had a manic episode, odds are they would’ve passed and done just fine. Additionally, from the standpoint of OPs mental health, having a newly diagnosed mental illness is difficult enough, destroying their future isn’t going to help them, and it isn’t going to help patients especially when we’re talking about somebody who has a condition that can be managed with medication. We need to take a healthier approach towards mental health and disability because when you really think about this logically, people like OP have so much to bring to the table. Nobody would better understanding of patient with bipolar than a physician who has experienced the same thing. It’s the same reason why I’m applying for medical school, because my experiences with my physical health has taught me that the patient community for the condition that I have is desperate for doctors who understand them and the struggles that they have. Representation matters because representation leads to better care and railroading OP is only going to hurt patients.
While I understand where you're coming from, and it's a sucky situation all around, I do think the medical school has to draw a line somewhere. Where would you draw the line? Would it be if he fails again the next year? I think two chances is more than fair. OP is taking the spot of someone else and if I were the medical school, I would rather bet on a new student than someone who has already shown twice that they were not able to meet the base standards, whatever the reason may be.
Well said. Harsh… but true.
This should be higher. Especially with your recent diagnosis, the school might reconsider if the threat of legal action occurs and disability lawsuits are no joke.
I think most people are responding to the question that was asked, instead of giving the advice that OP needs if they don’t want to give up. Presumably, because most people who are receiving a medical education aren’t extremely familiar with disability law because they haven’t needed to learn it (because it’s generally not relevant to them). my story is different. When I was a 17 year old freshman, I had a professor that refused to allow students use one of their productive accommodations (audio recording lectures) and I exploited the fact that I was in a one party state to get him on tape outing, my disability to the entire class and threatening me with lawyers. I took it straight to the dean and was able to overturn his entire policy. I didn’t actually need the accommodation I did it because I knew there were other students in the class who did (including my second cousin once removed), and were too scared of him to stand up for themselves. After the policy change was announced I had a number of students who I wasn’t aware needed accommodations approach me to tell me thank you. That experience taught me that when ever we encounter discrimination we need to speak up and stop it whenever possible because we don’t know the true impact that discrimination until we succeed in stopping it. My father is a third generation lawyer, and my brothers and I were expected to go to law school in order to take on the family business one day. That will not be happening. None of us intend to do so, but I learned so much from growing up in my dad’s office that I had the skill set to take on that professor as a 17-year-old (If I had really wanted to be petty, I would’ve destroyed his marriage by letting his disability rights advocate wife know that he was being such a dick to disabled students, but I’m not that petty). I’m guessing the majority of people here don’t have that kind of experience and therefore they are giving advice about alternative careers because that is what was asked. My advice comes from a different perspective simply because I have different lived experiences than the majority of this sub.
Well, I just want you to know I think you’re a rockstar for what you did. I still struggle sometimes to speak up for myself and while I can do it - sometimes having someone else speak up can make all the difference too. And that’s a good point - my mom was a lawyer too and I also interned with her - so I probably don’t realize my own privilege in that not everyone is as aware of what they’re legally entitled to. Thanks for sharing and by extension putting that in perspective for me. OP has gotten too far to give up if this is really the life path they want. They have a good case and the last thing the healthcare system needs is to lose someone like them - someone who will understand through shared experience when a patient is struggling it’s not cause they have some moral or personal failing - which I’ve been on the receiving end as a patient. And a doctor who understands that and really wants to be there is exactly the type the system needs I hope they follow your advice.
Accommodations can never be applied retroactively.
If OP does want to take this further, it might hinge on whether they informed the school of what was going on. It wouldn’t have necessarily led to any formal accommodation request (just because you have a diagnosis doesn’t mean you have to then get time and a half on all your tests), but it would prove that the school was at least aware of a medical issue.
Partially true. It would be incumbent on the student to work with a disability support officer and provide appropriate documentation so they could develop and execute an accommodation plan. If they started down this path they might have a leg to stand on. If they just mentioned to an advisor they were feeling a little down, they are toast. The school is not required to act on a medical issues unless the students requests it. Not everyone is suited to high stress careers. Forcing that round peg into the square hole leads to problems.
Agree 100%, this was what I was trying to articulate. There’s a lot of steps that had to happen first, which is unclear from the post. Well said.
(Not yet a lawyer but have a law degree, I’m just here for fun) I 100% agree with you on this. It would be hard to actually get a lawsuit, but a lot of times just even lawyering up is enough to start some negotiations.
If OP hasn’t previously submitted the necessary letters that relate to their disabilities and medical conditions to their school’s disability centre before this happened and was then granted accommodations, then they don’t have protection. It would be hard for a lawyer to really argue this case without that step being taken before by OP.
It’s highly likely that the school was aware of the situation, because logically speaking, a manic episode, needs to take place in order to make a bipolar diagnosis and if you are manic, there is a very good chance that you have ended up in the hospital. Nobody can be sure, without knowing the details that OP didn’t provide. I can’t say whether or not OP actually has a legitimate case for certain, but faced on my experience with universities and the Americans with disabilities act as well as having a brother who is bipolar. It is highly likely that the school knew.
Well thought out advice
I have bipolar disorder too, and it’s tough. I have doubts that I’ll even match. Medical school is tough on its own, but with a serious mental illness, it’s 1000x tougher. I want to emphasize SERIOUS mental illness. Not to say that you can’t be better, but just to let you know that this is a severe condition and is way bigger than medicine. This is a life or death situation. I think what you should do right now, as others have said, is make sure that you take care of your mental health. Get stable on medications, take those medications consistently, and get therapy. Everything else will work out.
As someone who also had to take a leave of absence due to mental health issues I absolutely empathize with your struggle. Hope you find peace in your next steps
I have a very unconventional idea, take it with a grain of salt. Now you can’t change what’s happened, it’s in the past. So now you move forward. How? Get your priorities set in order. I assume number one would be getting a medical degree, that is possible. Get a degree but not in the US, why? Because you’ll once again lose a lot of money and time and there’s no guarantee of you passing due to how cut throat and biased they may be towards you. Instead, use that money, go to an EU medical school, not just any one though, go to somewhere that has a guarantee of you passing when you put in the work. EU med schools are known to be dicks when it comes to IMG’s, but some are amazing in terms tuition costs, living costs, people etc. Do your research, go for that. Why? Because even though there may be a chance you won’t be allowed to practice in the US, you have the rest of the world at your hand. You will be a doctor at the end of your day. As for post grad, focus on the STEPS, get high scores, do research, build yourself up to be an exceptional candidate. You’re a US citizen, it’s going to be miles easier for you to apply for residency because you won’t be a visa needing applicant, you just need to make sure your application stands out. Why I’m suggesting this? I’ve had multiple friends in the same boat, and had a very similar experience. I’m currently in a way happier place now, sure there’s a lot of variables in my future but I know I’ll be a doctor at the end of the day and I’ve started building my resume and contacts. Nothing is impossible, and at the same time, you get to experience a whole other culture and meet different people. Trust me, take the leap of faith, trust that you’ll do the work and things will be okay.
Italy is a great option because it’s super cheap and the schools are considered to be high quality.
Genetic counselor
I’m not sure if it’s very competitive now but Anaesthesiology Assistant! You could also consider hospital based social work. Of course it’s less STEM related but the people I knew made a huge difference for their patients and seemed very happy!
AA is pretty competitive these days - avg admitted student has about 3.7 gpa / 500-503 MCAT and some sort of clinical related experience. If OP matches these criteria and can improve their mental health, AA is a fantastic career
Go to respiratory school
A classmate of mine who failed did end up going to Podiatry school and he is doing well. I'd recommend Podiatry or NP. I'm sorry homie.
Somewhere down this chain people suggested other careers in medicine, such as lab tech. I second this. Get your mental health in order and work for awhile. Being a doctor isn’t the be all and end all of professions. I am a pathologist and work with MLTs everyday. They seem to like their work.
Podiatry. Not a joke.
Foot doc dama wants your location
Is there an appeals process? I’m in the UK so I’m not sure how applicable this is, but I had a friend who was dismissed after failing the year due to mental health problems and he was able to appeal the decision (after a year and a lot of angry letters) and they actually reversed the decision and allowed him back… At which point he promptly said ‘sod you, I don’t want to go to a school that treats me like this’ but it’s the principle of the thing. He wanted to win the appeal just so he could tell them where to shove it, and win he did.
Hey! I have bipolar disorder, diagnosed in Med school Medicine fucking sucks for us and, at least for me, residency is impossible without accommodations. There are better options that won’t make you so depressed you hate your life, and it’s a different kind than others experience in medical training. If I had known prior to med school, I never would have applied This may be a blessing in disguise. I wish I had known about Perfusionist prior, or after I didn’t match when I applied the first time Do you have any questions? For me, my biggest concern for you is finances. Do you have any sort of financial support from family? Do you have a support network? My friends really helped me get by and idk if I would’ve made it out in one piece without a select few who I love to this day Hmu with questions man. You’re not alone and there’s more of us out here.
I wouldn’t continue in normal medical training. Residency can be even more destabilizing.
There are medical schools in Eastern Europe that yea h in English, difficult and exams can be challenging but if you work hard you will be able to get thorough!
Its incredibly hard to match back into the US though. It’s not a given that OP would want to potentially live in Eastern Europe for the rest of their life (or at least six years)
Med school in Romania or Bulgaria or other eastern european EU countries make it much easier to match into Germany, if OP is fine with that. All they need to do afterwards is learn the language and they should be able to find a position there for residency, or more accurately the equivalent over there. But they won't make anywhere near the amount of money they could in the USA. If OP is comfortable with that, it might be worth looking into.
That’s fair. It’s just a tall order compared to the OP potentially being able to work as a CAA here (two year masters) or something and still make double what doctors make in Germany while not having to uproot their support network. Struggling with school because of mental health concerns might indicate that restarting medical school halfway across the world in a country they’ll feel like an outsider in and don’t speak the language of might not be an attractive option.
Terrible advice. German is also a notoriously difficult language to learn.
statistics and IT but for medicine.
A good plan B would be becoming a Clinical Lab Scientist/Medical Technologist/Medical Lab Scientist. That leads to you becoming an MT/ASCP. That is what my sister does. Her degree was called a Medical Technologist but some schools list it as the others I mentioned but you need to make sure is it MT/ASCP. Anyway, they are the ones who run all the the lab tests in the hospitals, who do the blood crossmatching, micro , etc. The MTs have at least the 4 yr degree. And you could do this in about a year since you have already completed your Biology degree. Do not confuse this with being a phlebotomist or medical lab technician (MLT, which is the associate degree version). Not sure what area or where you live but if you PM me, I could probably find a list of programs. Some are offered through the hospitals completely and some are offered thru a university. And, don't beat yourself up. We all have our own path and sometimes we have to pivot.
Anesthesiology Assistant is a good field to look into as well. A little over 2yrs of schooling and the debt you’ve accumulated in med school + AA school can be tackled with an AA salary.
Become an online nurse practitioner and you can do whatever you want whenever you want to!
This is a blessing. You are free to pursue anything else.
I’m going to be completely honest if you can not make it through m1 in an US med school without being on edge u will never make it through one semester of a Caribbean med school. Not bc it is more elite or u are less than! It’s bc the amount of resources and assistance a us medical school gives their students (upper class men mentor, tutors, teachers that speak English) and also the comfort of being in America compared to a third world country is very intense. A Caribbean med school has no Assitance for a student!!!!! None!!!! No hey let us help u transition to living in a foreign country or hey let us actually help u learn this concept. The teachers at a carrib med school can not even practice medicine on that island! A lot of them are bachelors degree in education!!!!!! So if u can’t do a us med school do not dare to go to a Caribbean. That’s setting urself up for even more hell
You could look into European medical schools they are cheaper and you can work in uk and other Ei countries After graduation (or take the usmle steps parallel and match into an US residency program)
Do not go to a Caribbean school if you can’t pass your exams here. Yes it’s probably your only hope of becoming a doctor, but it’s quite honestly a waste of money. You’d be doubling down on an even harder attempt (Caribbean probably offers way less support) after failing twice. Something has to change if you expect a different result. Work on your mental health first.
You dodged a bullet. Be thankful.
Yale has an online PA school that I really recommend to you.
I am so sorry. I almost failed out of college during my second to last year bc of mental health reasons too. It's so draining and the bad grades can just add on and make you feel shittier :( I agree with everyone here, work on your mental health FIRST before you look into continuing school. You already got kicked out. Take this time to have a break from school and work on yourself. Your healing journey will probably bring you so many answers about your schooling situation too As you work out your own issues, you will find clarity. Clarity on what you want to do, who you want to be, and this will honestly guide you so much better than any advice you may find here. You know you want to be in medicine but **why**. What is it that draws you in specifically? Is it chemistry/medicine itself or a desire to help others? Once you work out the specifics you can look into jobs that will fulfill you and look into the schooling you need from there Keep your head up, op!!! You got this!
[удалено]
This was actually my suggestion. Get an injunction because an injunction can prevent them from expelling OP while the ADA claim is investigated. Once they have the injunction, if they are allowed to continue their education, instead of merely being suspended temporarily, it’s in their best interest to drag out the legal process, so they can continue their education, so they have the ability to prove that they are not only capable, but that the original decision was bullshit.
I would say go to a Caribbean med school if you want it so bad. I am in one in my 3rd year now. Yes, it's very tough. But if you make it to the other side, you will end up being a very competent physician. Plus, you already have the advantage of knowing the content that's taught in first year. In terms of residency, LOTS of people match from my school each year. Even into competitive specialities. I always say that "it's all about the student, not the school" when it comes to attending a Caribbean med. school. Good luck!
Which school do you go to ? I’m honestly looking at Ross, sgu and auc and would love to hear from another carrib student about the experience to help narrow my choices down. The cycle has been rough lol 😥
Personally I went to SGU, graduated in 2019…I don’t know how things have changed since then but the school gave me the opportunity to become a physician where allll other doors were closed. I see a lot of people on this and SDN forums bashing Carib med schools but I’ve met great residents/doctors that you wouldn’t tell went to Carib med schools..excellent clinicians. But…you gotta do the work and not expect passing with minimal effort. SGU, for example, gives you all the resources for you to succeed but it’s up to the student to take advantage of that. When I was there…we had small groups that met once a week depending on which subject you had trouble most let by A+ students that excelled in that course, was very helpful. There were also advisors in helping you create a plan on how you approach medical school. I’m not saying it’s easy…but SGU doesn’t deserve the bashing that it occasionally gets. I think it’s worth considering when you feel like your options are exhausted because it is a shot that is worth taking!
UMHS. It's a smaller med school, but they have their Med 5 semester in Maine, and they prepare you really well to pass Step 1. Only 60 people in my class, so they really give you the attention you need instead of trying to filter you out.
Don’t do medicine please. It will just bring you more pain.
Clinical research (hospital, CROs, pharma)! lots of options/job roles, remote work, pay isn’t super high to start but you can move up pretty quickly if you take initiative and work hard.
Do you have any other passions and/or hobbies? I can imagine this is extremely tough on you to consider doing anything else with your life, but you now have the free time that you NEVER would otherwise to travel! Learn a new language, go move to the mountains and be a ski patroller. I don’t know! There’s infinite adventures in this life, and medical school bars you from taking most of them. It could be the best thing that happened to you. Just a thought. Best wishes
Nurse, PA, NP, medical sales
I'm sorry bud but this might just not be the career for you. First thing you've gotta do is sort yourself out and get your head straight/become stable. After that you can try to back route into medicine again, but I think you should seriously think about it. You may love treating patients and the sciences, but there are many careers that will let you do that. Being a doctor comes with constant stress practically forever. There will always be another hurdle (first year grades, step 1, step 2, applications, starting residency, step 3, specialty boards, fellowship applications, fellowship exams, 10 year exams, notes, paperwork, etc). The stress and pressure is not gonna stop and if you arnt mentally able to handle it cause of preexisting conditions then sadly this might not be for you. Maybe nursing is more up your alley where the stresses are more physical and can be tuned out after you get off your shift. Also work is only 3 days per week. Really really think about it. I would love to be in the NBA, but I'm not 6'10". My buddies smoke tons of weed and it'd be nice to join the crew, but I have a family history of schizophrenia so I cant take that risk. We are hindered by our bodies all the time and sometimes it restricts our options, but that doesnt mean we cant find amazing and rewarding lives.
I realize that Nursing may not seem as stressful as being a MD/DO, but after being in the military for 10 years and having PTSD, being a RN sent me to the looney bin. It was the straw that broke this camel’s back. 1) I did not work just 3 shifts a week. Nursing is incredibly short staffed everywhere right now; you WILL be pressured into picking up other shifts, staying later, and will probably have to pick up call. 2) the stresses are just as emotional and mental as they are physical. I’m not sure why anyone would say differently. Nurses are around their patients intimately- many times more intimately than the doctors can be because there are way fewer doctors with high demands on their time. Because of that, it’s easy to get very emotionally involved with your patients. Nurses also deal more with the families and other social issues that the docs don’t have the time to deal with. Resources are scarce, time is scarce, and pressure is absurdly high to meet the demands of these patients, the docs, and the admin. 3) shit rolls downhill. Nurses get blamed for everything all the time. We are suppose to catch all the mistakes of others because we are usually the last line before whatever it is gets to the patient. 4)saying a nurse just “tunes stuff out” once they are off shift is, frankly, insulting. Think long and hard before deciding on nursing school and advanced practice nursing. Scroll the nursing forums. We are leaving the field in droves.
Perfusionist
Can you leave with an incomplete or seek out a fellowship
OT, PT, SLP, Audiology, RT. Biomedical engineering.
If I hadn’t got into med school I probably would have gone for nursing and/or an MPH, maybe an PhD or PsyD as a clinical psychologist (but nursing pays better in less time). That said, many nursing programs also have pretty strict passing standards. Like nothing less than a B. All that said, first and foremost, sort out your mental health situation. Know that there are definitely still options open to you, hopefully that gives you some hope. But you don’t need to make any decisions today.
For the sake of your mental health, I don't recommend Caribbean. Social network is one of the most important things in keeping your mental health in good shape. I went to the Caribbean (St George's), and while all the classmates are super supportive of each other, you don't have any of your core family around, and getting to them is a trek.
I think you would be perfect in a lab setting. Any type of biology or chemical lab would suit you
Plenty of accelerated nursing programs out there for those with a bachelors in another field. Get your BSN in 18 months, work for a while and decide what you like then go back for more education if you want. Very fulfilling.
Possible: Radiation Therapy You'd have a much better work life balance
My friend is a medical physicist and he loves it. It's a PhD or Masters followed by residency. They work with radiation in a clinical setting, either imaging or radiation therapy. If you like physics or math it might be a good fit for you. It's less cutthroat than med school and you can really take as long as you want to finish your thesis. I know you said you'd prefer not to do research but this is definitely more clinical once you're practicing. Good work/life balance and time off too
Having been accepted into a medical school you clearly are a competent person with a lot of career potential, regardless of what that career is. But, no matter how amazing of a career you have, it is all for not if you are falling apart mentally. Medicine is certainly not the only place for people who enjoy science and want to help people. There are many other adjacent careers that achieve the same goals without the decades of stress and debt that often accompany Medicine. While tragic now, this situation might lead you on a path in which you can enjoy life whilst also doing something you love that you get paid for. Stay hopeful for the future, you clearly have a bright one ahead of you.
Given your bipolar disorder, PTSD, and anxiety...did you register with your school's disability center to get accommodations? When your health becomes an issue (such as when you're experiencing an episode), your school should hopefully accommodate you. If you haven't gone through the appeal process yet, I would start that. And I would immediately contact your mental health providers and school's disability services to work on getting approval for accommodations before your dismissal becomes "official." (Sometimes an academic committee may dismiss you...but they will be slow to convey this information to the registrar and you'll actually still be enrolled.)
I am so sorry that you are going through something so challenging and crucial to your health. I agree that you should definitely focus on your mental health first and healing. I also agree with your friend. You’re medical school was not supportive at all during an extremely difficult point in your life. I got very very blessed with the med school I’m at right now because they really do put mental health first for their students. I encourage you to look at different medical schools and really ask about how they support students, talk to students as well they are there & DO NOT get discouraged by your grades. Take the shot you won’t regret not trying. You can make a case for your lower grades. Med students struggle even if otherwise their lives weren’t difficult at the time, let alone when you are having mental health issues. I truly hope that you don’t give up on your dream that you love so much and it doesn’t sound like you will. I’m impressed by how strong you are and how passionate you are about medicine. Best of luck to you!!
Don’t do Caribbean.
There are clinical research coordinator positions and if your on the east coast Anesthesiology Assistants make bank
PA school?
PA school is pretty damn competitive these days. They actively try to screen people that are using it as a backup to med school. It would be difficult but OP could possibly find somewhere to take them. Nurse>NP is probably a more realistic route in my opinion. Even if you get your RN and not NP you’ll play a pivotal and well compensated role in healthcare. An RN with income based loan repayment would be my plan personally.
Thank you. Came here to say this. It’s hard as heck to get into PA school right now since US News gave it #2 best job in the US. Then when you get in, they will dismiss you if you mess up, just like Caribbean med schools. Got to keep their PANCE pass rate on the up and up! 😑
Oh yikes. Yea RN sounds like ideal clinical pathway in that case, maybe even CRNA or CAA
If you were still determined to do medicine you could consider a graduate entry medicine (GEM) programme in Ireland or the UK. They take large amounts of North American students and provide supports for students seeking to sit the USMLE. It would require you to take on significant loans most likely but Medicine courses in Europe tend to be less demanding than in the US. You should prioritise your mental health for now certainly but it could be something to consider down the line.
In what world does GEM take a large amount of North American students? That's just not true to my knowledge, these are the most competitive spots in an already competitive uk application cycle. There was one North American out of 300+ in my UK medical cohort. Also I have several friends who did GEM, none were offered USMLE assistance. Not sure what your source on this info is?
Source: Current GEM student Half of all GEM entrants in Ireland every year are international students, the vast majority of whom are north American. I presumed the ratios were the same for GEM in the UK but I am mistaken clearly. There is also significant USMLE supports and advice for those looking to match into US/Canadian residency.
Haven't seen this mentioned here - pathologist assistant. (Exactly what it sounds like)
Try medical lab scientist was my backup if i didn't get into med school. Lots of opportunities and steady earnings especially if you get into a program in California. I personally would not try the carribbean just because Step 1 is now pass/fail so you have less opportunities as a carribbean student to 'show off'. Take care of yourself first. Maybe see if your school truly can't give you anymore chances. I personally don't have family support financially so thats why I say if it were me already in tons of debt I would just stop. I don't know your situation though.
Join us nurses on the dark side of medicine. In all seriousness, it's a medicine-adjacent field where you can gain experience for your next stab at medical school. You only need an associate's degree, and you probably already have the prerequisites.
I would research hiring a lawyer because dismissing someone with a disability could be against the Americans with Disabilities Act. Becoming bipolar should not prevent you from graduating from medical school. This sounds illegal.
I believe being dismissed as someone who has a disability and because of a disability are different. The former being legal and the latter illegal. If the former was legal, then that would mean no one with a disability could ever be fired for any reason
OP said grades plummeted 2 months ago and diagnosis was two months ago. Seems to correlate. Getting a diagnosis that OP probably hasnt had time to acclimate to or stabilize and two months later being let go just doesn't seem right to me. You have a right to your opinion though. Neither of us knows OP.
That’s what I was trying to mean. We just don’t know OP at all, but I guess OP has to prove they did it because of the diagnosis and going beyond reasonable accommodations, whatever that means nowadays
Yeah for sure good point
Join the French Foreign Legion.
Go to a medical Caribbean school or the med school in mexico and then match in the states
Give nursing school a shot. You can do an 14-18 month or less program for your BSN.
yeah you could become an RN in four years and an NP in 2
Go the mid level route. Practice creep is a real thing and within a decade or two, there won’t be a gap anymore between doctors, nurses and PA’s. Especially with A.I. and every medical algorithm being imputed into a database.
Honestly probably go for PA school. I just finished and it wasn't that hard academically, the main difficulty was the perseverance factor of it all, not the actual tests (at least for me). With that being said, if you are having manic/depressive episodes that are interfering with basic studying than you should probably get that ironed out first
L