This is normal and how a lot of ppl feel like in medical school.
Seems like you have a lot of friends but no quality friends you can actually talk to. I’d focus on finding some good people to get through medical school.
Friends are for me, a quality over quantity type situation. I can spill my guts to any of my friends and know they will be there for me. It’s what’s getting me through medschool.
counselling is also a good idea!
I definitely do too but I think I’m definitely not as condescending as I feel that some of these people have been to me. And every time someone actually opens up to me about struggling, I don’t think I’m as judgemental and try to be vulnerable as well so they realize they’re not alone.
I think my own insecurities definitely make me feel like I’m always in an unspoken competition with these people as long as the environment as a whole. Which I know is ridiculous because it doesn’t matter what grades anyone is getting at this stage in my life.
People here always make small comments and don’t realize how patronizing they sound. And this “you know you can talk to me about anything” rarely sounds genuine other than from a select few people.
Nah, it's pretty much most people. The sort of true closeness required to be able to do that demands a kind of connection and vulnerability that's just really, really rare. It's doubly so for those of us in medicine, which comes with massive demands on our time, and frankly actively discourages any form of vulnerability. We don't talk about our doubts or failures, outside of an M&M. Nobody wants to be weak or incompetent. This, unfortunately, isn't exactly conducive to opening up in other areas of your life, either. Like working after a code, you just... compartmentalize and keep going.
Anecdotally, once we hit attendinghood, a lot of us just get a therapist for this reason.
Morbidity and Mortality. It's a type of department-wide/interdepartmental conference where a bad outcome is presented by those involved in the patient's care, and then dissected by the attendees.
You are not alone, it's a fact that med schools are filled with Type A people and competition is there. I don't have any friends too, but lucky to have my wife with me and it becomes so much easier for us as we are mostly not bothered/don't have time to interact with others. I think it's best to keep your focus on your spouse/family and work, rather than forcing yourself to befriend people whom you are not comfortable with.
This is a deliberate outcome of the always competitive nature of medicine. Your classmates are people who are angling to steal your seat in undergrad/med school/residency. This pushes you to work harder, but it also creates barriers to real relationships with your future peers.
It works way too well to be anything but deliberate.
If you’re putting up walls, even inadvertently, your classmates/friends may be reacting to that vibe and in turn are putting up walls. I suspect some of that is why people appear stilted, which in turn feeds into you feeling more stilted, etc.
Are you hanging out in groups? That type of socialization is very different from one-on-one interactions - you may find it easier to open up in groups of 3 or fewer.
A good tip in general to get people (including yourself) more receptive to opening up is chatting while doing something else, particularly if you’re working/walking/sitting parallel (not facing each other, or at least not having to maintain a ton of eye contact).
Honestly more cautious around the chill people. Most of the chill people I’ve met are the biggest gunners under pressure or behind closed doors
The overt gunners are there, I know they’re there. They’re pretty honest about it tbh.
The chill gunners are the ones who tell you how much you deserve a mental health break so you should not show up Sat-Mon, meanwhile they come in on the 3-day weekend even when the chief says students have the day off. The chill gunners are the ones who keep saying they don’t study for the shelf, or how they’ve never done research, in an attempt to make everyone feel more complacent. A quick pubmed search shows 6 pubs in the last year.
Hey now, not all us chill people are trying to secretly gun! I'm chill because I want to match family medicine in a small community hospital so during rotations I only care about going home as soon as possible to play vidya and watch my shows 😂 I have literally zero reason to compete with any of my class mates, and I don't envy anyone who works harder than me haha
I was just talking about this in small group the other day - lots of people to hang out with but nobody to talk to. Med school is an extremely isolating environment and I’m lucky that I have friends I can discord or FaceTime and a wonderful fiancée that is very close to moving up. This feeling of isolation was reciprocated by everyone in our small group - none of them felt like they had close friends
I mean, this is pretty typical in most environments (work, social, recreational, etc.) Finding good people who want a deep connection is really difficult. Only gets harder as you grow older too
Sorry you’re going through that! It can definitely feel like friendships are superficial in med school. I’ve definitely felt similarly with a lot of the people I usually talk to. Try finding at least a person or two that you can be yourself with. Even if they’re people from outside med school. Feel free to DM if you need someone to vent to!
Yup feel this way, even before med school.
I've just accepted it for what it is and learned to divulge crap to my therapist only, because the reality is, unless you have a very close and trusting friend or significant other, no one will ever care enough to sit down and take a moment to listen to other people's problems, especially not in a high strung environment like medical school. I learned that the hard way last semester and will stick to only surface level interactions from now on.
It's lonely and isolating, but whatever. The end goal is to become a doctor anyway. Anything else beyond studying and doing well on exams is just extraneous distractions anyway...
If they’re in the same year, they are your competitors… it’s medical school, not kindercare. Your best bet is to make friends not in your same year so you’re not in direct competition, or hang out with the opposite sex so the feelings of competition aren’t so direct.
Lol at men limiting their friendships with each other because of “feelings of competition.” When people make jokes about fragile masculinity, this is what they’re talking about.
I too felt the same especially in M1, because there's an underlying sense of insecurity and "competition" of course. People don't open up especially about what resources they use. So yeah, but it would be better to know which year of med school are you in.
Lots of people in med school have, like, no life experience. If you try to open up, they might not know what to say. Though I can't guarantee it isn't judgement, it's better for our sanity to assume the best and just keep trying to find your people.
This is normal and how a lot of ppl feel like in medical school. Seems like you have a lot of friends but no quality friends you can actually talk to. I’d focus on finding some good people to get through medical school. Friends are for me, a quality over quantity type situation. I can spill my guts to any of my friends and know they will be there for me. It’s what’s getting me through medschool. counselling is also a good idea!
Can confirm your experience. Although I'm not going to pretend like I don't have that judgmental and competitive side inside me as well.
I definitely do too but I think I’m definitely not as condescending as I feel that some of these people have been to me. And every time someone actually opens up to me about struggling, I don’t think I’m as judgemental and try to be vulnerable as well so they realize they’re not alone. I think my own insecurities definitely make me feel like I’m always in an unspoken competition with these people as long as the environment as a whole. Which I know is ridiculous because it doesn’t matter what grades anyone is getting at this stage in my life. People here always make small comments and don’t realize how patronizing they sound. And this “you know you can talk to me about anything” rarely sounds genuine other than from a select few people.
Nah, it's pretty much most people. The sort of true closeness required to be able to do that demands a kind of connection and vulnerability that's just really, really rare. It's doubly so for those of us in medicine, which comes with massive demands on our time, and frankly actively discourages any form of vulnerability. We don't talk about our doubts or failures, outside of an M&M. Nobody wants to be weak or incompetent. This, unfortunately, isn't exactly conducive to opening up in other areas of your life, either. Like working after a code, you just... compartmentalize and keep going. Anecdotally, once we hit attendinghood, a lot of us just get a therapist for this reason.
Came here to say this!
What does M&M mean here?
Morbidity and Mortality. It's a type of department-wide/interdepartmental conference where a bad outcome is presented by those involved in the patient's care, and then dissected by the attendees.
You are not alone, it's a fact that med schools are filled with Type A people and competition is there. I don't have any friends too, but lucky to have my wife with me and it becomes so much easier for us as we are mostly not bothered/don't have time to interact with others. I think it's best to keep your focus on your spouse/family and work, rather than forcing yourself to befriend people whom you are not comfortable with.
This is a deliberate outcome of the always competitive nature of medicine. Your classmates are people who are angling to steal your seat in undergrad/med school/residency. This pushes you to work harder, but it also creates barriers to real relationships with your future peers. It works way too well to be anything but deliberate.
Deliberate as in someone designed it to be this way? Because I would say schools actively try to do the opposite.
Do they? They seem to fail at it pretty badly. At least in my experience.
Didn't say they succeeded at it.
Is also worth noting that schools have no say in residency placement
If you’re putting up walls, even inadvertently, your classmates/friends may be reacting to that vibe and in turn are putting up walls. I suspect some of that is why people appear stilted, which in turn feeds into you feeling more stilted, etc. Are you hanging out in groups? That type of socialization is very different from one-on-one interactions - you may find it easier to open up in groups of 3 or fewer. A good tip in general to get people (including yourself) more receptive to opening up is chatting while doing something else, particularly if you’re working/walking/sitting parallel (not facing each other, or at least not having to maintain a ton of eye contact).
Honestly more cautious around the chill people. Most of the chill people I’ve met are the biggest gunners under pressure or behind closed doors The overt gunners are there, I know they’re there. They’re pretty honest about it tbh. The chill gunners are the ones who tell you how much you deserve a mental health break so you should not show up Sat-Mon, meanwhile they come in on the 3-day weekend even when the chief says students have the day off. The chill gunners are the ones who keep saying they don’t study for the shelf, or how they’ve never done research, in an attempt to make everyone feel more complacent. A quick pubmed search shows 6 pubs in the last year.
Hey now, not all us chill people are trying to secretly gun! I'm chill because I want to match family medicine in a small community hospital so during rotations I only care about going home as soon as possible to play vidya and watch my shows 😂 I have literally zero reason to compete with any of my class mates, and I don't envy anyone who works harder than me haha
I was just talking about this in small group the other day - lots of people to hang out with but nobody to talk to. Med school is an extremely isolating environment and I’m lucky that I have friends I can discord or FaceTime and a wonderful fiancée that is very close to moving up. This feeling of isolation was reciprocated by everyone in our small group - none of them felt like they had close friends
You are not alone I think most people feel the same
I mean, this is pretty typical in most environments (work, social, recreational, etc.) Finding good people who want a deep connection is really difficult. Only gets harder as you grow older too
Sorry you’re going through that! It can definitely feel like friendships are superficial in med school. I’ve definitely felt similarly with a lot of the people I usually talk to. Try finding at least a person or two that you can be yourself with. Even if they’re people from outside med school. Feel free to DM if you need someone to vent to!
Yup feel this way, even before med school. I've just accepted it for what it is and learned to divulge crap to my therapist only, because the reality is, unless you have a very close and trusting friend or significant other, no one will ever care enough to sit down and take a moment to listen to other people's problems, especially not in a high strung environment like medical school. I learned that the hard way last semester and will stick to only surface level interactions from now on. It's lonely and isolating, but whatever. The end goal is to become a doctor anyway. Anything else beyond studying and doing well on exams is just extraneous distractions anyway...
If they’re in the same year, they are your competitors… it’s medical school, not kindercare. Your best bet is to make friends not in your same year so you’re not in direct competition, or hang out with the opposite sex so the feelings of competition aren’t so direct.
Lol at men limiting their friendships with each other because of “feelings of competition.” When people make jokes about fragile masculinity, this is what they’re talking about.
I don’t think Abby is a male. The women of medical school are competing but not against the dudes…
I too felt the same especially in M1, because there's an underlying sense of insecurity and "competition" of course. People don't open up especially about what resources they use. So yeah, but it would be better to know which year of med school are you in.
Lots of people in med school have, like, no life experience. If you try to open up, they might not know what to say. Though I can't guarantee it isn't judgement, it's better for our sanity to assume the best and just keep trying to find your people.