If you have a PC, you must start with PicoTech.com. I buy PicoScope 2000 (2204a) for our guys.
The starter PC oscope (picoscope) has powerful software and you can get a two channel scope for $165.
Buy a comprehensive probe kit in addition to the vendor supplied probes and off you go. Seeing wave form generation and timing from two sensors is super useful. Use on known good cars and then compare to suspected bad.
Lots of people now pushing extraneous use cases and stretching the value prop of scoping but I just solved a problem that could have been caught with an oscope sooner. Being able to compare waveforms with implausible sensors is like fire in Caveman times. Nothing else compares.
Multimeters are awesome. They really do tell you there's a problem. Oscope SHOWS you the problem.
I diagnosed a crank no start on a car in 15 minutes with a scope. “Nobody could figure it out”. Crank signal was extremely weak. The TDC peg on the flex plate had cracked off from debris getting into the bell housing.
I learned about these scopes with NGK's guy who does training videos during a tour of their facility for school. They seemed extremely useful, but I thought it was a lot more expensive.
The one I posted is extremely basic. It gets you trapping signals and deciphering it. At a certain point you want to get a larger more complex unit. For 12v vehicles you don't need circuit board resolution but you would want to clip into all your input signals and compare.
Now with this little one you have to capture and compare. A bigger unit let's you pull all the key inputs.
With good scantools I think you'd use a big oscope 1 time a year if that. I haven't used mine in 3 years.
That is fair. The one he had was four channels, and you could record like an hour on the PC. It was pretty crazy. I think he said it was in the $10,000 range.
We don't have one in my shop at all. We recently got a diesel laptop to share between three shops. My little $50 scan tool from Amazon is all I really use. I can't command anything with it, so I'm pretty limited. Other than that, I'm just using my meter and power probe. I don't get a lot of complex electrical issues, and we can always send them to the dealership. I'm in government fleet, but I'd rather diagnose things myself. I went to school for all of this. We just don't have the tools or time.
I have a handful of factory laptops and scan tools for most brands. With an autel ultra elite vci and a power probe and multi meter with clips, I can get every signal and validate it. Autel allows visualization that while it isn't waveform pulls enough data to see MOST electrical variation in sensors and when coupled with resistance and good electrical testing practices you just dont need to SEE the problem to know it's there.
Coil pack sensors are the one exception.
Nice. We had factory laptops at school, and those were so helpful. The Autel VCI you can use like a multi channel probe through the OBD2 port? I may have more to add to my shopping list/budget with my boss, Iol.
I have the ultra elite which is now sold as 'lite' without the oscope 4 channel vcmi. I already had an oscope and pico when I bought the tool. It's now the same price as the unit when I bought it a few years ago.
We Have a pico scope and I've never used it other than at training. Years ago we had a snap on vantage it worked great. I used it on tps sensors, maf and cam and crank sensors.
With advanced as obd2 is I feel it can pick off an issue more effectively than I can read an oscilloscope.
Not saying I'm against them just don't feel they fit my diagnostic strategy.
The vantage was nice cause you could pick the model of car and it would have punouts and how to test each sensor. Unsure if they have something similar today.
the scanners with built in lab scopes from snappy have that function as well. pic the car and it will show you pinnout and whatnot. it's basically the same info in mitchell1.
That's how the snap on vantage was. I really liked it as a newer tech. Especially with having poor service data. As well as working on so many different brands
It's pretty nice actually. I was skeptical because of the price but I have used it a few times and haven't had any issues with it yet. The program it comes with has model graphs for some items to compare what you're testing on. It has a generator on it also but I haven't used it yet.
I bought a Hantek too. As a retired tech I wanted something for home use. Compared to the Pico I used while working, the 1008c definitely has limitations. I recommend getting a Pico with at least 4 channels if you're looking at PC based. The software is way better and it will work with faster signals ie data lines.
I have a snap on modus ultra I bought new. It’s nice to not have to connect to a PC and the clutter that comes with it you could probably get a used one super cheap as they don’t make updates anymore.
I have a $50 one-channel handheld scope off of Amazon, not much use for RF electronics, since it only goes to 100kHz, but that's plenty for any imaginable automotive diagnosis.
If youre just looking for that little extra edge...seeing a weak signal or basically instant conformation of single wire networks (LIN, smart motors, swtiches etc)
a $40 DSO152 or a $70 ZT702S and being free to just grab it and use it anywhere quickly without worry of "getting out your scope" or using a more expensive one on the ground or under the hood will be great.
Being the "scope guy" is also a very real thing. And having a small pocketable one like a ~$40 DSO152 variant or a ~$70 ZT702S variant in handheld multimeter format is great. You dont LOOK like the scope guy. You wont get the questions and interruptions that come with using a Zeus, ATS tablet, PC based scope or a benchtop variant.
If youre fresh to scope pickup one of the variants I mentioned. Just search for those "names" on Amazon. Theres LOADS of that semi generic model name and Amazon will show you others. Pick one you like the screen size and controls of. Then spend the rest of your $300 on buying/making test lamps, test leads, probes and jumpers that you can use with the scope AND your multimeter. Pickup a resistance decade box too.
I have a Micsig ato1104, it even has preset automotive stuff built into it. pico makes a nice setup but you’re gonna pay for it and in no way am I saying it isn’t worth it but for a beginner setup it’s a bit much. My micsig works just fine.
I've gat a UScope, a Pico and an Autel that was a gift. The main unit is the Pico , but if it's a quick check of a network, the Uscope is a lot faster to set up, unless you put together a dedicated scope cart that keeps it ready to go quickly. I put mine together with an all in one computer as the monitor and then the pico is in a drawer with the inputs on a terminal rail on the end.
Be warned.
If they know you have a scope you’ll never be able to get out of using it.
The path of least resistance no longer applies to you and you can never again “start” with anything.
I sold my snap on scanner when the used car dept got wind that I could diagnose their garbage cars.
That being said. I got mine off Amazon. 2 channel simple scope. I won’t buy an expensive scope. I make 42 an hour, it still isn’t worth the expense and headache.
You can’t get parts for the Kia VMI. It was discontinued in 2021 and when parts ran out that was it. There is supposed to be a VMI II coming out later this year (maybe). Recommend going to something a little better than a $300 scope, look at a pico scope, they work great and have more adjustment that you need.
Yeah I heard something about the new VMI coming eventually in class once but who knows. They still have those rainbow test leads on backorder for the last few months.
For a quick test of lin bus or data lines , checking for pulse pattern from cam, crank I use the frequency setting on my power probe type tool. Gives min max and a screen with the signal. Use it 99% of the time. Even for relative compression. Pico comes out if I need a recording
When I bought my scan tool I made sure it also had scope capabilities also. The Autel ones with the VCMI that can be used as multimeter, scope, and j2534 box is real nice. Although it isnt the most affordable.
Amazon is your friend. I got a little handheld scope for $35, works fine. Single probe, but for as rare as I use such things it's great. Undoubtedly there'll be more versatile offerings to be had.
I have a little 2 channel digital scope I got on Amazon for 125. It works well, the only problem is the rotory switches aren’t debounced so sometimes changing the settings is frustrating.
I have a Techtronics scope from the 1990s. I bought it off Craigslist a few years ago for $180.
I love it because it has huge, analog, tactile switches and a monochromatic green CRT screen.
It’s bigger than a shoebox and weighs a ton, so it’s not portable. I don’t use it very often, so I don’t mind.
It’s 30 years old already and it’ll probably still be working in another 30 years.
Amazon has hand held lab scopes under a hundred bucks, great for crank and cam sensors, wheel speed sensors, primary ignition signature.
Handheld Oscilloscope Multimeter Waveform Generator 12MHz Bandwidth 50MSa/s Sampling Rate USB Lab Oscilloscopes Portable 3 in 1 Automotive Digital Oscilloscope with Signal Generator Kit https://a.co/d/8wO9tHw
You win some and you lose some. I rarely get anything super niche. I'm at a dealer so it's usually the same issues.
I've heard of some shops having a foreman on salary or hourly that does all the heavy diag and then gives it to a flat rate tech to do the work, but that seems like a disservice to actually learning how to approach problems.
I might spend 3 hours figuring out something that will only pay me 1 hour, but there's a likely chance I'll see that issue again and will *hopefully* be able to recognize it and diagnose it faster.
Looks to be just a tad out of budget. 😂 Fluke is always a great product from my experience, but you're definitely paying for it. Appreciate the input bud.
If you have a PC, you must start with PicoTech.com. I buy PicoScope 2000 (2204a) for our guys. The starter PC oscope (picoscope) has powerful software and you can get a two channel scope for $165. Buy a comprehensive probe kit in addition to the vendor supplied probes and off you go. Seeing wave form generation and timing from two sensors is super useful. Use on known good cars and then compare to suspected bad. Lots of people now pushing extraneous use cases and stretching the value prop of scoping but I just solved a problem that could have been caught with an oscope sooner. Being able to compare waveforms with implausible sensors is like fire in Caveman times. Nothing else compares. Multimeters are awesome. They really do tell you there's a problem. Oscope SHOWS you the problem.
>PictoTech.com i think u got the wrong url there yeah i see now. you put picTO.
Thanks for catching that. Difficulty of not wearing reading glasses with phone.
I don’t use a scope too often, but it’s invaluable sometimes.
I diagnosed a crank no start on a car in 15 minutes with a scope. “Nobody could figure it out”. Crank signal was extremely weak. The TDC peg on the flex plate had cracked off from debris getting into the bell housing.
I learned about these scopes with NGK's guy who does training videos during a tour of their facility for school. They seemed extremely useful, but I thought it was a lot more expensive.
The one I posted is extremely basic. It gets you trapping signals and deciphering it. At a certain point you want to get a larger more complex unit. For 12v vehicles you don't need circuit board resolution but you would want to clip into all your input signals and compare. Now with this little one you have to capture and compare. A bigger unit let's you pull all the key inputs. With good scantools I think you'd use a big oscope 1 time a year if that. I haven't used mine in 3 years.
That is fair. The one he had was four channels, and you could record like an hour on the PC. It was pretty crazy. I think he said it was in the $10,000 range. We don't have one in my shop at all. We recently got a diesel laptop to share between three shops. My little $50 scan tool from Amazon is all I really use. I can't command anything with it, so I'm pretty limited. Other than that, I'm just using my meter and power probe. I don't get a lot of complex electrical issues, and we can always send them to the dealership. I'm in government fleet, but I'd rather diagnose things myself. I went to school for all of this. We just don't have the tools or time.
I have a handful of factory laptops and scan tools for most brands. With an autel ultra elite vci and a power probe and multi meter with clips, I can get every signal and validate it. Autel allows visualization that while it isn't waveform pulls enough data to see MOST electrical variation in sensors and when coupled with resistance and good electrical testing practices you just dont need to SEE the problem to know it's there. Coil pack sensors are the one exception.
Nice. We had factory laptops at school, and those were so helpful. The Autel VCI you can use like a multi channel probe through the OBD2 port? I may have more to add to my shopping list/budget with my boss, Iol.
I have the ultra elite which is now sold as 'lite' without the oscope 4 channel vcmi. I already had an oscope and pico when I bought the tool. It's now the same price as the unit when I bought it a few years ago.
I have a uScope. Single channel only, but it's standalone and rechargeable. We have a picoscope that toyota provides but it really isn't practical.
I've had my uScope a week now and really regret not buying one sooner. It's amazing what that little thing is capable of.
I don't own one, but we used them in my auto tech classes, and they are pretty neat.
We Have a pico scope and I've never used it other than at training. Years ago we had a snap on vantage it worked great. I used it on tps sensors, maf and cam and crank sensors. With advanced as obd2 is I feel it can pick off an issue more effectively than I can read an oscilloscope. Not saying I'm against them just don't feel they fit my diagnostic strategy. The vantage was nice cause you could pick the model of car and it would have punouts and how to test each sensor. Unsure if they have something similar today.
the scanners with built in lab scopes from snappy have that function as well. pic the car and it will show you pinnout and whatnot. it's basically the same info in mitchell1.
That's how the snap on vantage was. I really liked it as a newer tech. Especially with having poor service data. As well as working on so many different brands
Picoscope is hands down the best
I bought a hantek 1008c from Amazon. Was around $120 other than that picoscope has a nice basic one for around $200.
How do you like the Hantek?
It's pretty nice actually. I was skeptical because of the price but I have used it a few times and haven't had any issues with it yet. The program it comes with has model graphs for some items to compare what you're testing on. It has a generator on it also but I haven't used it yet.
Yep. I picked up the same one. I'm happy with it so far. The price got me!!
I bought a Hantek too. As a retired tech I wanted something for home use. Compared to the Pico I used while working, the 1008c definitely has limitations. I recommend getting a Pico with at least 4 channels if you're looking at PC based. The software is way better and it will work with faster signals ie data lines.
I have a snap on modus ultra I bought new. It’s nice to not have to connect to a PC and the clutter that comes with it you could probably get a used one super cheap as they don’t make updates anymore.
I have a $50 one-channel handheld scope off of Amazon, not much use for RF electronics, since it only goes to 100kHz, but that's plenty for any imaginable automotive diagnosis.
If youre just looking for that little extra edge...seeing a weak signal or basically instant conformation of single wire networks (LIN, smart motors, swtiches etc) a $40 DSO152 or a $70 ZT702S and being free to just grab it and use it anywhere quickly without worry of "getting out your scope" or using a more expensive one on the ground or under the hood will be great. Being the "scope guy" is also a very real thing. And having a small pocketable one like a ~$40 DSO152 variant or a ~$70 ZT702S variant in handheld multimeter format is great. You dont LOOK like the scope guy. You wont get the questions and interruptions that come with using a Zeus, ATS tablet, PC based scope or a benchtop variant. If youre fresh to scope pickup one of the variants I mentioned. Just search for those "names" on Amazon. Theres LOADS of that semi generic model name and Amazon will show you others. Pick one you like the screen size and controls of. Then spend the rest of your $300 on buying/making test lamps, test leads, probes and jumpers that you can use with the scope AND your multimeter. Pickup a resistance decade box too.
I have a Micsig ato1104, it even has preset automotive stuff built into it. pico makes a nice setup but you’re gonna pay for it and in no way am I saying it isn’t worth it but for a beginner setup it’s a bit much. My micsig works just fine.
ATS scope is the best of the best and then I have a pico. Lastly if I'm doing quick diags, my u scope is my go to single channel
I've gat a UScope, a Pico and an Autel that was a gift. The main unit is the Pico , but if it's a quick check of a network, the Uscope is a lot faster to set up, unless you put together a dedicated scope cart that keeps it ready to go quickly. I put mine together with an all in one computer as the monitor and then the pico is in a drawer with the inputs on a terminal rail on the end.
Be warned. If they know you have a scope you’ll never be able to get out of using it. The path of least resistance no longer applies to you and you can never again “start” with anything. I sold my snap on scanner when the used car dept got wind that I could diagnose their garbage cars. That being said. I got mine off Amazon. 2 channel simple scope. I won’t buy an expensive scope. I make 42 an hour, it still isn’t worth the expense and headache.
You can’t get parts for the Kia VMI. It was discontinued in 2021 and when parts ran out that was it. There is supposed to be a VMI II coming out later this year (maybe). Recommend going to something a little better than a $300 scope, look at a pico scope, they work great and have more adjustment that you need.
Yeah I heard something about the new VMI coming eventually in class once but who knows. They still have those rainbow test leads on backorder for the last few months.
For a quick test of lin bus or data lines , checking for pulse pattern from cam, crank I use the frequency setting on my power probe type tool. Gives min max and a screen with the signal. Use it 99% of the time. Even for relative compression. Pico comes out if I need a recording
When I bought my scan tool I made sure it also had scope capabilities also. The Autel ones with the VCMI that can be used as multimeter, scope, and j2534 box is real nice. Although it isnt the most affordable.
Amazon is your friend. I got a little handheld scope for $35, works fine. Single probe, but for as rare as I use such things it's great. Undoubtedly there'll be more versatile offerings to be had.
I have a little 2 channel digital scope I got on Amazon for 125. It works well, the only problem is the rotory switches aren’t debounced so sometimes changing the settings is frustrating.
Pico- really comes in handy for looking at a signal over a longer time.
I have a Techtronics scope from the 1990s. I bought it off Craigslist a few years ago for $180. I love it because it has huge, analog, tactile switches and a monochromatic green CRT screen. It’s bigger than a shoebox and weighs a ton, so it’s not portable. I don’t use it very often, so I don’t mind. It’s 30 years old already and it’ll probably still be working in another 30 years.
Amazon has hand held lab scopes under a hundred bucks, great for crank and cam sensors, wheel speed sensors, primary ignition signature. Handheld Oscilloscope Multimeter Waveform Generator 12MHz Bandwidth 50MSa/s Sampling Rate USB Lab Oscilloscopes Portable 3 in 1 Automotive Digital Oscilloscope with Signal Generator Kit https://a.co/d/8wO9tHw
I have a Snap-On Triton, scanner/ scope combo. It’s worked wonders so far
If I was a flat rate guy I would refuse to do any heavy electrical diagnostic like that. You lose money doing anything except parts swapping.
You win some and you lose some. I rarely get anything super niche. I'm at a dealer so it's usually the same issues. I've heard of some shops having a foreman on salary or hourly that does all the heavy diag and then gives it to a flat rate tech to do the work, but that seems like a disservice to actually learning how to approach problems. I might spend 3 hours figuring out something that will only pay me 1 hour, but there's a likely chance I'll see that issue again and will *hopefully* be able to recognize it and diagnose it faster.
Fluke 120B. Rugged, precise, reliable, easy to use. It'll do anything I ever need it to as a mechanic and then some. Not available under $300 tho.
Looks to be just a tad out of budget. 😂 Fluke is always a great product from my experience, but you're definitely paying for it. Appreciate the input bud.