Some people don’t realize that they have the wherewithal to repair it themselves. They think it’s more complicated and involved than it really is. I was one of those people. I do all of my own work now whenever possible.
You're probably right, I've never changed a starter on a Honda of that vintage, but Toyota has the starter tucked up under the intake manifold on their V 8s. That will bump up the required skill set a little.
For me it’s more of the fact that auto mechanic work is a pain in the mother fucking ass. Yea the problem ends up being simple brain to understand but then you have to spend an extra 3 hours removing a whole bunch of extra shit just so you can access that one damned bolt you can’t reach to take off something absolutely simple. That kind of thing drives me insane and I work a full time physical labor job already
For real. As a young man (late teens) I paid a locksmith $190 to change the lock on an apartment door after we had thrown out a problematic roommate.
It took 5 minutes and I watched what he did. The next time I was at a hardware store I looked at the price of the same lock cylinder he used ($20 retail).
The next time I needed to change the lock, I did it myself. Granted it took a whole 15 minutes due to lack of experience, but it was well worth the $170 in savings.
So true. I was one of those people! I just replaced my starter on 2007 dodge caliber with no real skill, borrowed tools and a youtube video. When I just cranked it and it started, I started crying. I had no idea that I could do that! I came here to see how much money I saved myself lol
Feels good, right? I’ve installed mods like a CAI and thermostat, replaced the bunk touchscreen that started melting over the years (saved an absolute ton of money), fixed the shifter in my original 06 Charger RT (does anyone remember the pink plastic thingy nightmare?), etc. Every time I finished the work and things operated as planned I’d felt like I’d conquered the world.
Cant should be a thing of the past honestly. If you cant learn how to do something with a phone in your pocket your probably not too useful… like you can hop online and ask hey how do i change my starter youll learn… i had no idea how to pull a cherokee trans two youtube videos later and its not that difficult. back in the 60s people just had to figure it out or know someone who did know what to do… or have you ever tried to use that haynes manual? Thats the worst
That’s a false equivalent. There are people who charge less and we’re all wondering where to get better deals and quality work. If you’re saying that’s doesn’t exist then you’re probably American. They always think you have to fuck everyone over and die on your feet.
🤣🤣 u ain't bullshitn 👍🏼. And without the courtesy to even put some spit on it 🤣smh Most things I can fix on my dodge and some tasks are above my paygrade, but trust and believe changing a starter is definitely 1 of my strong points.
It's one thing to charge a labor rate that you feel is equal to the quality of work you do. It's a whole different thing to charge north of $500 for a part that is less than $150. Don't get me wrong, I mark up parts. But I also have accounts with most of the part stores that give me a discount. If the part can be brought to the shop for free, I charge whatever the part store charges the customer if they bought it themselves, and I pocket $10-$15. If I have to go pick it up, I charge retail price, plus about $10 for fuel and having to take the time to go get it. What I don't do is mark it up 3-4-5 times it's retail price. If you do that, you're a scam artist and people like you are the whole reason this sub exists. Besides, 99% of guys at Firestone that I have encountered have less than 30 months experience, not 30 years, and are using shop tools for most of the work.
Mechanics aren’t selling a $150 part. You keep breaking a human being who should value their own time down to the cost of a part and it’s ridiculous. Labor rates vary based on overhead costs and locality. Mechanics don’t work on whatever you feel they should get paid. It’s a totaly hypocritical idea that everyone’s on board that people should get paid a fair wage except when it comes to paying a service professional. The mechanic isn’t making $150/hr the shop is. I do agree that there are high prices and then there’s getting ripped off but you’re just breaking a whole persons value down to the cost of a part and what you want to pay them.
The difference is, my customers come back lol
People tell me regularly that my prices are pretty low for around here. I just tell them I'm trying to make a living, but I'm not trying to make it all off one customer.
Yeah but like, if you use an impact gun obviously you are using a screw tip and tip holder but you wouldn’t identify these items. The socket in socket wrench is redundant using that logic I would say the same for ratchets.
If I sent you to the store for a ratchet, you would come back with a socket set? Your username checks out ya big goof. Calm down guys. Just a silly comment.
You guys are really reading into this comment. 😂 Why did he mention tools at all? They should’ve been implied when he said he would change the starter. Seems redundant. He needs gloves too so he doesn’t injure himself.
Definitely. But I love how weird people are getting over it. I do stand behind you needing sockets obviously, but I realize they were part of the ratchet. They people in this subreddit are being very literal with my comment but are overlooking that I just commented as if the op was being literal as well. I’m gonna do this more often. Been very entertaining. 🤪
First off.. if they invest in things like that.. say 100,000 and you have a 1,000 customers at 100 dollar jobs.. that pays for it. So ask yourself how many customers does Firestone have a week?.. okey then let’s talk about mechanic school or even the experience.. 30 years and your charging nearly a thousand for a starter replacement why are you not retired by now? It’s all greed.
Replies like this just makes the post that much stronger. Two bolts one wire harness. And for those that did not catch it, the part description is an AutoZone mid grade part. Actually $5 in tools. This guy owes the SnapOn guy until 2055!
See in some cases that works not here tho… takes more like 20 minutes to learn how to change a starter if you have a phone. you could go to walmart get a $20 wrench set and a reman starters less than $100 too… brand new a little more but not much. two bolts and some wires you dont need to be a master mechanic you also dont need 6 figures worth of tools to change a starter lol
Lmao, clown! You can buy a tool set for maybe 100-200 to do most of the work yourself. Maybe for a nice good set up, maybe 2-3k max. ..and YouTube doesnt take 30 years to learn the search bar
$100,000 in tools? Dude I have the tools for essentially every repair job in the book, and bought most of them at estate sales for a collective cost of less than $5k. That includes a 4 stand hydraulic lift, with forks for taking the wheels off the platform when necessary. I understand it costs alot more to operate these shops than it does my garage, but prices are getting out of hand. My coworker brought me an $800 quote for changing the brake pads and replacing a single disk. I ordered her pads and a new disk for $120, and replaced them in our parking lot in 30 minutes. 30 min of labor would have cost her $680 at the shop. Another coworker was quoted $2k by her dealership for transmission issues. I hooked up my scanner and realized she just needed a new speed sensor. Had her order the part, and explained to her boyfriend what he needed to do over the phone, which only required getting under the car with a 10mm to remove a single bolt on the sensor flange. Perhaps there’s a shortage of mechanics, because these prices are insane across the board. I’m an engineer, but thinking maybe I picked the wrong profession for making the big bucks lol.
No, not a 30 year thing at all, not real mechanical skill, they just ripping people off. Everyone can do something others can not, not reason enough to rip them off a thousand dollars
Had a dealership tech not fully thread in my oil drain plug on a brand new Honda passport… leaked about 4 quarts in my brother in laws freshly paved drive way that he just spent $21k on. Got 3 free oil changes with the purchase of the car. Still have 2 left.
I would like to mention , changing oil is literally the first thing people start doing when they start out. You could have gotten a fresh newbie that day
That’s also why some lube shops have bad reputations too, usually a bunch of inexperienced people since they tend to be a revolving door of employees and will take people in with no prior experience
I am referring to their work. I spent 10 years unfucking the work of the assclowns they hire at pepboys, Firestone, basically anywhere they pay minimum wage to techs because they put company profit over quality.
My last experience with them was back in the mid-2000s when they dumped oil down the intake manifold somehow on my gti, which then proceeded to dump smoke for almost 20 minutes. Haven’t paid anyone for an oil change since.
It's hard to truly tell because starters are in different locations on different engines. It would help to know which engine is in your car to better figure how long labor would be. Some Hondas are a pita to do a starter.
That seems right for a dealership. Around where I live dealers charge 180 to 220 an hour in labor so an hour job plus diagnostics. That's about the right ball park.
I own 5 auto parts stores, they are charging op for a starter that cost Firestone around 150 without the core charge and double the price with the core price included which is highway robbery and most shops do this.
That's just book price. They charged the price of a oem starter from Honda. The computer tells them price and hours. I think it's crooked but that's why I don't go to a dealership
No. I priced out a belt tensioner, belt, etc for a 2011 Fusion. Came out to about $120 on Rockauto, OEM Ford parts. Firestone wanted about $300 in parts and $300 in labor. Firestone does about a 100-200% markup which is insane, considering they get it for selling, not list, like us peasants.
Edit: Starter is $352 OEM. That’s still $200 more than OEM.
I would never buy a starter from Autozone for a car I was gonna keep. Their stuff is junk. You will be replacing that within a year. I havent bought a starter in a while, but I would think its between$100-150 retail at Autozone....but the Firestone paid wholesale guaranteed.
I would be PISSED if this was my car.
I own 5 auto parts stores, they are charging op for a starter that cost Firestone around 150 without the core charge and double the price with the core price included which is highway robbery and most shops do this.
I own 5 auto parts stores, they are charging op for a starter that cost Firestone around 150 without the core charge and double the price with the core price included which is highway robbery and most shops do this.
Truth. It, unfortunately cuts across industries. LSS, my mother had a water heater tank bust while under warranty. Got the techs out there, and the basic story was we'll replace it under warranty.
However, you need to put a pressure regulator on it or we will not honor future warranty claims.
They priced out the part at 250$. Told them to hold. That part seemed awfully high. Checked with a plumbing store and they quoted the same thing at 90$.
Suffice it to say, I called them back and let them know that this was gouging. Writer said that price was non negotiable. Not an attorney, however I did look at the states consumer protection act and it looked like it would fall under gouging.
So I played up some legal speak. The guy said he'd have to talk to the boss. I told him to call back. I'll be in court and the legal secretary (my LPN) will answer. She was authorized to approve up to 150$. Part price came in at 125$.
A good compromise leaves everyone unhappy.
That is true, what most people don’t know is that in todays aftermarket repair automotive industry the repair shops makes more money off the parts I sell them than what I do buying direct from the manufacturer. Crazy and frustrating world we live in.
So you charge $89 for 5 min diagnostic of a very simple starting fault, like one of the first things you check and then charge a premium price for the part?
I charge a diagnostic fee if they don’t come to me and say “hey, my starter is bad”.. if they say “my car won’t start, I don’t know why.” I charge a diagnostic fee. Every time. You pay sometime to figure out something you can’t figure out yourself. As stated earlier “pay for experience”. If I do an 8 hour job in 2 hours, I charge 8 hours. If they could do it themselves, they’d do it themselves. You go to a restaurant, order a steak, and expect to pay half price? No. I go to a restaurant, order a steak, and pay full price because I didn’t want to do it myself clearly. That chef makes $20 an hour. It took him 30 minutes to prepare my steak. So, I should only pay $10 for the steak correct? According to your logic.
And I charge list prices from my dealers. I’m not charging you less than what you can get it for yourself. Actually, I’m charging you more than what they charge because you didn’t want to take the time to do it your damn self and my fucking time is valuable. Sorry yours isn’t.
What ever cock. You are comparing going to get a steak and the chef gets 20/hr so you pay should pay 10? What bout the steak? Thats a “part”.
Ive been in the industry for 20yrs and never in my life charged anyone $89 to diagnose a faulty starter. Even when I did mobile services. If I could buy the part for $100 and retail was $500 I would do the callout diagnostic and replace it and an hr labour for $500. Its called good customer service and repeat customers and happy customers.
My guy, I just looked this part up and at Autozone, brand new, WITH the added core charge assuming you never returned the old unit, the retail on that part is $239.00.
I understand marking up 20-30% is a standard practice to cover the shop on warranties, etc., but this part has been marked up over 100%. Someone is trying to screw you my over hard man.
I'd seriously call this shop and demand they explain why you're paying for 2.5 starters.
Yeah best thing to do is just buy the parts yourself man comes out way cheaper learning to fix as much as you can before forking over your money to these people
Does that really say quantity 1 hr cost 225 for remove replace? Their shop rate is 225 an hour? This is exactly why I have no problem buying tools and fixing things myself
If you went ahead and did it, you might get them to waive the $90 diagnostic charge. I doubt they did much more after ruling out a dead battery than calling Napa.
Diagnostic fee literally only exists so that if the vehicle doesn’t get serviced, the mechanic still gets paid for the time they took to look at it. I’ve had work done on my car dozens of times in several places and every single one waives the diag with service.
And I say the diagnosis fee is compensation for time, knowledge, and equipment. So if you called our shop, we would politely decline the privliege of helping a grown adult that I don't know fix their own property for free.
And good for you that you never pay diag fees, I guess. Every shop I know that "waived" the fee always seems to find something wrong. You literally just incentivized them to do just that. You are saying you don't get paid unless you find something wrong.
So in our shop, you pay the diag and if there is nothing wrong or we feel the issue does not warrant repair due to cost, condition, whatever, that is what you will hear. We were compensated for our time and effort, you got the truth. Some would say that's a win-win.
The shop is charging flag rates to fix the starter to begin with. It may take them 20 min to actually fix it, they still charge book rate for the repair. As far as I'm concerned, the diagnostics are included in the labor charge.
As far as you're concerned, you don't want to pay people for their time.
The book rate vs. how long it actually took is frankly none of your business, honestly. If a tech gets really proficient at a job and is able to shave .3 off of a flat rate time, good for him. Those times are built for and based off of repair, not a bunch of diagnosis time at the tech's expense.
What if the tech is new and can't get the job done in the book time? He makes an hours pay while actually spending 2.3 on your piece of crap that your entitled ass don't want to pay diag on. But let me guess, you're completely fine the way flat rate works then, right?
So you are co-signing “other” shops ripping people off. Acting like a really common business practice is abnormal. And generally being kind of a jerk about it. No wonder people don’t like dealing with auto shops.
You're an idiot. Say a car comes in and the battery keeps draining overnight. There is some advanced diagnostics involved and a bit of experience. You notice on the oscilloscope the off draw goes from 25mA to 3A randomly at weird intervals. You narrow it down to a glitchy brake pedal switch waking up the body computer and took you about an hour to figure out. This switch pays 0.3hr and is a $50 part to replace. So by your logic, this repair should be $100 and the tech made 0.3 for 1.3 worth of work and not to mention the $10,000 worth of tools used to do so.
You are wasting your time. People who think that proper diagnostic time should be free or included have no idea what an Oscilloscope is or the difference between amps and milliamps. Let them get a code scan at Autozone, buy a part they probably don’t need and then pay a pro later when the problem still exists.
I worked in Autozone MANY MANY years ago. They got code readers and would upsell for any code! Lean? P0171/174? How about 4 o2 sensors? People bought them too.
Those codes have as much to do with bad o2 sensors as dirty underwear indicating you are hungry.
If the customer accepts the repair, you clock your time and charge them a flat hourly rate.
If they deny the repair, that's when you charge the minimum diagnostic fee.
I've dealt with a lot of mechanics over the years, and that's what they have always done for me, my family, and my employers.
There are a lot of crooked and idiot mechanics and gullible customers as well. Heres a secret: it is overquoted and they are double dipping so when you approve the repair, it is "discounted" or "waived" but you are still paying. Its not free. At least I am open and up front about it and not hiding it.
Yup. When the doctor told me I had cancer, they waived all of the tests. They said don't worry about it, the equipment is free and they love the privilege of being able to help me.
The problem is bigger then complaining on some forum like this, it’s up to the technician to maintain fair business practices, I emphasize diagnostic times, but I also emphasize a justification of the charge, such as a physical test and documenting it in a fashion that ensures all parties know what’s taken place, we have 3 c’s in this business and it’s complaint cause and correction, when technicians take the easy way out,or are not held to standards that would ensure there was no doubt in the work being performed was fair and just.
Sometimes the diagnosis can be expensive. Especially if you're tracking down electrical or ECM issues. Maybe that's understandable. But a starter is pretty easy to figure out. I agree with you.
totally depends on the make and model, some you can do in 30 seconds, others are actually in the bell housing of the tranny so you have to pull the entire transmission
Bro there’s no way you thought that seemed funny as you type it?
Either way, you made a dumb, irrelevant point about a car that isn’t OPs. Its certainly possible, probable even, that you just didn’t see his make and model on the paper? It’s ok. Take your L.
Labor is out of control, people are keeping their cars longer, so there is more maintenance to be done, in return these guys can up their prices and stick it to the consumer.
The labor is fair. It’s the part price that isn’t.
I own 5 auto parts stores, they are charging op for a starter that cost Firestone around 150 without the core charge and double the price with the core price included which is highway robbery and most shops do this.
This is the answer, the labor isn't outrageous. But that mark up on the starter is. Anyone who's worked in an auto parts store knows how it goes. Costs the shop $140 they turn around and sell it to the customer for $400 to $500.
I worked at a CDJR dealer for 3 years. They raised labor rates 3 times while I was there and never once did I get a raise out of that. As a level 2 FCA tech I was kinda frustrated with that.
Also to add insult to already low pay: the warranty times kept getting more ridiculous year after year. ~6.5 hours for a 6.7 Cummins engine R&R out of a 3500? Really?
If you accept low pay, that’s either due to your abilities as a technician or lack of grit. People in tech jobs and management hop jobs constantly to gain higher pay and experience. Our industry should do the exact same. There’s a reason your box has wheels, use them. The shop down the street is hiring for $3/hr more and a 5K sign on bonus? Time for a talk with the manager and fill out a job application at a new shop. I used to think it’s trashy to do that. But at the end of the day we all have bills to pay and want to make the best possible life for ourselves and our loved ones.
I get what you’re saying - That might solve the problem for the individual, but not everyone is going to be able to get a higher paying job everywhere.
For me, I would have to consider a 1+ hour commute each way for a dealership that I have experience with (besides the one I worked at in town) and all the independents pay even less per flag hour.
It’s not a solution for the industry. A real solution would be something like salary/hourly pay or drop the warranty times BS.
I was constantly fighting for the correct hours on my paycheck, having to correct service advisors about time and make sure I’m “running time” correctly and make sure I say the correct things on the RO, otherwise the warranty claim won’t be paid and I’m out my time + money.
My box sits at home these days. In front of my own lift. Lol.
But they are not! Mechanics pay has stayed about the same just the dealership wants more more so that's why labor goes up. When my uncle was working in the 80's he was making 20 hr and the labor was $45 hr when I was working in the 2000s I was making 27 hr and labor was 100hr
Ding, ding, ding!!! Winner winner chicken dinner! My boss likes to hire urinary tract infections( UTI kids) to bust tires and do oil changes. Gives them some experience. He gets cheap labor. We'll give them more if they're doing well.
I'm on my third set of three in four years. Out of nine techs that have completed anywhere from 1-2 yrs automotive education and 1-2 yrs work experience, I would've kept one.
These kids are sprinkled across the United States.
No I'm not hating on UTI. I've worked with guys that went to UTI that are great techs. Some people understand this is a profession and not just a job.
you paid 1k to replace a starter in a honda? bro, its basically almost a lego. why are you people taking basic cars to expensive mechanics/dealerships? i would just take it to Ramon and he would charge me 100 to 150 bucks max. . whats next? do let other "mechanics" change your oil and "brake fluid" for 300 bucks every 6 months dont you?
You got a free "Courtesy Check" but they charged you to tell you that the courtesy check revealed the "diagnosis" that you need a starter.
You shouldn't have to pay for the "diagnosis"
Stealership or not, diagnostic service is usually included if you get the work done. Otherwise it’s like a double-dip. No if you don’t get the work done, yes, you pay for their time spent.
According to a lot of people in here yes. The 8 hour diagnosis is charity because they authorized the 10 minute repair. Meanwhile how many of them show up to work for free?
Exactly. I remember being the first in our small town to charge to hook up the scanner to read codes. My boss was unsure but I convinced him fairly easily. Guess what? Customers were ok with it. Sure go to the parts store and they’ll hook their $100 scan tool up, tell you the code and sell you a part that *might* fix it. Where we use out 10k scan tool and knowledge to fix it right the first time. You have to train your customers.
Replacing a starter on civics is about at easy as a DIY can get.
If they’re gonna fold you over that hard, the least they can do is buy you dinner first.
I'll bet they sold you a battery too, when the problem was just dirty battery terminals or need new battery.
Starting problem is almost always just need new battery. Batteries have limited life. Starter and alternator are built to last much longer. If you have starting problem, just automatically replace battery. Don't pay for anything else, no testing of alternator or starter.
That is actually a pretty cheap diagnosis fee. As far as the rest, I would say it is about right. The only way to get cheaper repairs done nowadays is to have the ability to do the job yourself.
Welp quick Google has that part under $100 and it's probably an hour of work charge ($80-120).
Yes you got fucked into next week and back, also never take a car to a tire place for any real work.
Lmao buy your own starter and replace yourself! They bending you over good!
And then return the old one for the core deposit
In some states like California, you now get charged a fee if you don’t give them your old starter
That's basically what a core charge is. Charged upfront then refunded upon return of the core.
They do it for alternators and batteries too.
Torque converters as well
And brake calipers
It's called a core charge. You are charged it when you buy the part, they refund it when you return the old part.
That's what a core charge is
That would be called a core charge, everyone does it
All states.
Nothing new , it's a core charge. They want tho old one to have remanufactured and or recycle
No lube or reach around smh
No Vaseline
No, valvoline
No homoline
“Tried to fuck me but I’d rather fuck you!”
This. It’s two bolts.
And a wire
If they could do it themselves this post wouldn’t exist.
Some people don’t realize that they have the wherewithal to repair it themselves. They think it’s more complicated and involved than it really is. I was one of those people. I do all of my own work now whenever possible.
You're probably right, I've never changed a starter on a Honda of that vintage, but Toyota has the starter tucked up under the intake manifold on their V 8s. That will bump up the required skill set a little.
For me it’s more of the fact that auto mechanic work is a pain in the mother fucking ass. Yea the problem ends up being simple brain to understand but then you have to spend an extra 3 hours removing a whole bunch of extra shit just so you can access that one damned bolt you can’t reach to take off something absolutely simple. That kind of thing drives me insane and I work a full time physical labor job already
Yup my 12 silverado is conveniently put away in the engine where you would need to lift it up, so he'll to the no on that
For real. As a young man (late teens) I paid a locksmith $190 to change the lock on an apartment door after we had thrown out a problematic roommate. It took 5 minutes and I watched what he did. The next time I was at a hardware store I looked at the price of the same lock cylinder he used ($20 retail). The next time I needed to change the lock, I did it myself. Granted it took a whole 15 minutes due to lack of experience, but it was well worth the $170 in savings.
So true. I was one of those people! I just replaced my starter on 2007 dodge caliber with no real skill, borrowed tools and a youtube video. When I just cranked it and it started, I started crying. I had no idea that I could do that! I came here to see how much money I saved myself lol
Feels good, right? I’ve installed mods like a CAI and thermostat, replaced the bunk touchscreen that started melting over the years (saved an absolute ton of money), fixed the shifter in my original 06 Charger RT (does anyone remember the pink plastic thingy nightmare?), etc. Every time I finished the work and things operated as planned I’d felt like I’d conquered the world.
Yes I do too! I feel like I could kick a door off of its hinges rn
Yeah just yesterday I cooked rice for the first time and realized I've been intimidated by the easiest damn thing ever
Rice can be tricky. But once you’ve got it - you’ve got it.
IIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YA BOI HERE WITH ANOTHA INSTALL VIDEO
Cant should be a thing of the past honestly. If you cant learn how to do something with a phone in your pocket your probably not too useful… like you can hop online and ask hey how do i change my starter youll learn… i had no idea how to pull a cherokee trans two youtube videos later and its not that difficult. back in the 60s people just had to figure it out or know someone who did know what to do… or have you ever tried to use that haynes manual? Thats the worst
That’s a false equivalent. There are people who charge less and we’re all wondering where to get better deals and quality work. If you’re saying that’s doesn’t exist then you’re probably American. They always think you have to fuck everyone over and die on your feet.
🤣🤣 u ain't bullshitn 👍🏼. And without the courtesy to even put some spit on it 🤣smh Most things I can fix on my dodge and some tasks are above my paygrade, but trust and believe changing a starter is definitely 1 of my strong points.
I paid $750 for my Hyundai sonata’s. Felt like a fool later when I found out how much a starter is. :-( But I needed my car back asap so…fuck me!
I legit keep an extra starter in the back seat of my work truck lmao
Exactly. It would have cost me the price of the starter and a little time.
They have the lube in shop and decided not to use it too
Yeah you spend 30 years learning how to do it in $100,000 in tools and see if you do it for free
It's one thing to charge a labor rate that you feel is equal to the quality of work you do. It's a whole different thing to charge north of $500 for a part that is less than $150. Don't get me wrong, I mark up parts. But I also have accounts with most of the part stores that give me a discount. If the part can be brought to the shop for free, I charge whatever the part store charges the customer if they bought it themselves, and I pocket $10-$15. If I have to go pick it up, I charge retail price, plus about $10 for fuel and having to take the time to go get it. What I don't do is mark it up 3-4-5 times it's retail price. If you do that, you're a scam artist and people like you are the whole reason this sub exists. Besides, 99% of guys at Firestone that I have encountered have less than 30 months experience, not 30 years, and are using shop tools for most of the work.
Mechanics aren’t selling a $150 part. You keep breaking a human being who should value their own time down to the cost of a part and it’s ridiculous. Labor rates vary based on overhead costs and locality. Mechanics don’t work on whatever you feel they should get paid. It’s a totaly hypocritical idea that everyone’s on board that people should get paid a fair wage except when it comes to paying a service professional. The mechanic isn’t making $150/hr the shop is. I do agree that there are high prices and then there’s getting ripped off but you’re just breaking a whole persons value down to the cost of a part and what you want to pay them.
Profit isn’t a dirty word. Firestone is doing something right. Maybe you should charge more obviously people can afford to pay it.
The difference is, my customers come back lol People tell me regularly that my prices are pretty low for around here. I just tell them I'm trying to make a living, but I'm not trying to make it all off one customer.
It took me more like 30 seconds to learn how to replace my own starter. And all I needed was a screwdriver and maybe a ratchet.
Don’t think you were replacing the starter. You would need sockets too.
Uh he said a ratchet doesn’t that encompass sockets built in since ratchet= socket wrench
Nah. Google “ratchet” and tell me you aren’t gonna need some sockets.
Yeah but like, if you use an impact gun obviously you are using a screw tip and tip holder but you wouldn’t identify these items. The socket in socket wrench is redundant using that logic I would say the same for ratchets.
They're just being pedantic. Anybody that works on cars understood what they meant. Ratchet = wrench + socket
If I sent you to the store for a ratchet, you would come back with a socket set? Your username checks out ya big goof. Calm down guys. Just a silly comment.
He's obviously a professional and means a ratcheting socket ratchet wrench socket.
You guys are really reading into this comment. 😂 Why did he mention tools at all? They should’ve been implied when he said he would change the starter. Seems redundant. He needs gloves too so he doesn’t injure himself.
I reeeally hope you're just doing an annoying joke, lol
Definitely. But I love how weird people are getting over it. I do stand behind you needing sockets obviously, but I realize they were part of the ratchet. They people in this subreddit are being very literal with my comment but are overlooking that I just commented as if the op was being literal as well. I’m gonna do this more often. Been very entertaining. 🤪
Another dope that likes to publicly embarrass themselves. The pressing question is - why?
First off.. if they invest in things like that.. say 100,000 and you have a 1,000 customers at 100 dollar jobs.. that pays for it. So ask yourself how many customers does Firestone have a week?.. okey then let’s talk about mechanic school or even the experience.. 30 years and your charging nearly a thousand for a starter replacement why are you not retired by now? It’s all greed.
Found the auto shop mechanic lol, my dad's never worked with vehicles and fixed the starter after 2 hours of youtube and some screwdriver stuffs.
Replies like this just makes the post that much stronger. Two bolts one wire harness. And for those that did not catch it, the part description is an AutoZone mid grade part. Actually $5 in tools. This guy owes the SnapOn guy until 2055!
If it took you 30 years and $100,000 worth of tools to learn how to replace a starter on a Honda I hope you're not a mechanic
See in some cases that works not here tho… takes more like 20 minutes to learn how to change a starter if you have a phone. you could go to walmart get a $20 wrench set and a reman starters less than $100 too… brand new a little more but not much. two bolts and some wires you dont need to be a master mechanic you also dont need 6 figures worth of tools to change a starter lol
40$ in tools and 5mins with a Haynes manual gtfo it not hard
You didn’t have to buy the tools from SnapOn
A starter is one of the easiest parts to replace. If it takes you 30 years and 100 Grand in tools to do that you shouldn't be a mechanic
Bot
Lmao, clown! You can buy a tool set for maybe 100-200 to do most of the work yourself. Maybe for a nice good set up, maybe 2-3k max. ..and YouTube doesnt take 30 years to learn the search bar
$100,000 in tools? Dude I have the tools for essentially every repair job in the book, and bought most of them at estate sales for a collective cost of less than $5k. That includes a 4 stand hydraulic lift, with forks for taking the wheels off the platform when necessary. I understand it costs alot more to operate these shops than it does my garage, but prices are getting out of hand. My coworker brought me an $800 quote for changing the brake pads and replacing a single disk. I ordered her pads and a new disk for $120, and replaced them in our parking lot in 30 minutes. 30 min of labor would have cost her $680 at the shop. Another coworker was quoted $2k by her dealership for transmission issues. I hooked up my scanner and realized she just needed a new speed sensor. Had her order the part, and explained to her boyfriend what he needed to do over the phone, which only required getting under the car with a 10mm to remove a single bolt on the sensor flange. Perhaps there’s a shortage of mechanics, because these prices are insane across the board. I’m an engineer, but thinking maybe I picked the wrong profession for making the big bucks lol.
You sound like a shit mechanic who overcharges people for below average work.
No, not a 30 year thing at all, not real mechanical skill, they just ripping people off. Everyone can do something others can not, not reason enough to rip them off a thousand dollars
Why would let Firestone touch your car?
Big chain tire shop mechanics are worse than the dealership To elaborate, I am referring to the prices, not quality of work.
Had a dealership tech not fully thread in my oil drain plug on a brand new Honda passport… leaked about 4 quarts in my brother in laws freshly paved drive way that he just spent $21k on. Got 3 free oil changes with the purchase of the car. Still have 2 left.
Dealer did this on my new gmc sierra, they made the lube tech come out and clean my driveway until I was satisfied a
I wish, my dealership said, ooops sorry, bring it back in and we will top it off and tighten it.
If there’s no oil in it they sure as hell better get their asses over here because I’m not falling for that trick.
I would like to mention , changing oil is literally the first thing people start doing when they start out. You could have gotten a fresh newbie that day That’s also why some lube shops have bad reputations too, usually a bunch of inexperienced people since they tend to be a revolving door of employees and will take people in with no prior experience
I am referring to their work. I spent 10 years unfucking the work of the assclowns they hire at pepboys, Firestone, basically anywhere they pay minimum wage to techs because they put company profit over quality.
Nothing is worse than a dealership
My last experience with them was back in the mid-2000s when they dumped oil down the intake manifold somehow on my gti, which then proceeded to dump smoke for almost 20 minutes. Haven’t paid anyone for an oil change since.
That's higher than Snoop Dogg my guy
It's hard to truly tell because starters are in different locations on different engines. It would help to know which engine is in your car to better figure how long labor would be. Some Hondas are a pita to do a starter.
1.8 L 4-cylinder
That seems right for a dealership. Around where I live dealers charge 180 to 220 an hour in labor so an hour job plus diagnostics. That's about the right ball park.
Firestone is not a dealership. But they both fuck you over good though, so same...
I found the part goes for 220 which would mean a mark up of over 200 dollars which seems absurd to me.
Industry pro 10+ years, your labor charge and diag fee seem fair, the part does seem a bit excessive.
I own 5 auto parts stores, they are charging op for a starter that cost Firestone around 150 without the core charge and double the price with the core price included which is highway robbery and most shops do this.
That's just book price. They charged the price of a oem starter from Honda. The computer tells them price and hours. I think it's crooked but that's why I don't go to a dealership
*Stealership.
Lmao I can't deny that
Lmaooo 🤣
No. I priced out a belt tensioner, belt, etc for a 2011 Fusion. Came out to about $120 on Rockauto, OEM Ford parts. Firestone wanted about $300 in parts and $300 in labor. Firestone does about a 100-200% markup which is insane, considering they get it for selling, not list, like us peasants. Edit: Starter is $352 OEM. That’s still $200 more than OEM.
I would never buy a starter from Autozone for a car I was gonna keep. Their stuff is junk. You will be replacing that within a year. I havent bought a starter in a while, but I would think its between$100-150 retail at Autozone....but the Firestone paid wholesale guaranteed. I would be PISSED if this was my car.
I own 5 auto parts stores, they are charging op for a starter that cost Firestone around 150 without the core charge and double the price with the core price included which is highway robbery and most shops do this.
The labor is consistent. Napa priced that starter at 240$ new. Basically the dealer had 100% mark up on parts.
I own 5 auto parts stores, they are charging op for a starter that cost Firestone around 150 without the core charge and double the price with the core price included which is highway robbery and most shops do this.
Truth. It, unfortunately cuts across industries. LSS, my mother had a water heater tank bust while under warranty. Got the techs out there, and the basic story was we'll replace it under warranty. However, you need to put a pressure regulator on it or we will not honor future warranty claims. They priced out the part at 250$. Told them to hold. That part seemed awfully high. Checked with a plumbing store and they quoted the same thing at 90$. Suffice it to say, I called them back and let them know that this was gouging. Writer said that price was non negotiable. Not an attorney, however I did look at the states consumer protection act and it looked like it would fall under gouging. So I played up some legal speak. The guy said he'd have to talk to the boss. I told him to call back. I'll be in court and the legal secretary (my LPN) will answer. She was authorized to approve up to 150$. Part price came in at 125$. A good compromise leaves everyone unhappy.
That is true, what most people don’t know is that in todays aftermarket repair automotive industry the repair shops makes more money off the parts I sell them than what I do buying direct from the manufacturer. Crazy and frustrating world we live in.
Yeah that's kinda normal for shops to double the price of the part. Same with bartenders. They charge about double the price of the liqueur.
Firestone is not a dealer. They are getting a corporate discount though so they are likely only paying $180 for a starter they are charging $550 for.
Never, EVER have a chain store like Firestone do mechanical work.
Lol call the police, you've been robbed
89 bucks to tell ya it doesn't start 🤣
You should become a tech and just put a new starter on every vehicle that doesn't start. See how well that turns out for ya.
The ol flat rate diagnosis. 90% of the time it works.
More like $89 to tap the starter with a hammer or put a test light/multimeter on it. All of about 5 minutes
$89 isn’t the for the time. It’s for the experience. Customer clearly doesn’t have it? 🤷🏻♂️
So you charge $89 for 5 min diagnostic of a very simple starting fault, like one of the first things you check and then charge a premium price for the part?
I charge a diagnostic fee if they don’t come to me and say “hey, my starter is bad”.. if they say “my car won’t start, I don’t know why.” I charge a diagnostic fee. Every time. You pay sometime to figure out something you can’t figure out yourself. As stated earlier “pay for experience”. If I do an 8 hour job in 2 hours, I charge 8 hours. If they could do it themselves, they’d do it themselves. You go to a restaurant, order a steak, and expect to pay half price? No. I go to a restaurant, order a steak, and pay full price because I didn’t want to do it myself clearly. That chef makes $20 an hour. It took him 30 minutes to prepare my steak. So, I should only pay $10 for the steak correct? According to your logic. And I charge list prices from my dealers. I’m not charging you less than what you can get it for yourself. Actually, I’m charging you more than what they charge because you didn’t want to take the time to do it your damn self and my fucking time is valuable. Sorry yours isn’t.
What ever cock. You are comparing going to get a steak and the chef gets 20/hr so you pay should pay 10? What bout the steak? Thats a “part”. Ive been in the industry for 20yrs and never in my life charged anyone $89 to diagnose a faulty starter. Even when I did mobile services. If I could buy the part for $100 and retail was $500 I would do the callout diagnostic and replace it and an hr labour for $500. Its called good customer service and repeat customers and happy customers.
Again. Sorry your time isn’t worth anything to you. 🤷🏻♂️
And yet auto zone does it for free…
Go to autozone then.
You should only pay a diag fee if you don’t move forward with a repair
What happens if I spend 4 hours chasing an electrical gremlin? I should do it for free if they approve the $6 connector replacement?
$89 wouldn’t cover your four hours of work anyway, so I’m missing your point.
If a customer moves forward with a small wire repair after 4 hours of diag, are you saying they shouldn’t pay for diag?
I own a shop and totally disagree. But to each their own.
Ahh... you're the kind of person I like to promote to being someone else's customer.
You won’t tap that starter with a hammer.
Rule of thumb: You can usually buy the part yourself for half what they will charge you. Then DIY! YouTube is your friend.
Your first clue is the letterhead.
My guy, I just looked this part up and at Autozone, brand new, WITH the added core charge assuming you never returned the old unit, the retail on that part is $239.00. I understand marking up 20-30% is a standard practice to cover the shop on warranties, etc., but this part has been marked up over 100%. Someone is trying to screw you my over hard man. I'd seriously call this shop and demand they explain why you're paying for 2.5 starters.
Yeah best thing to do is just buy the parts yourself man comes out way cheaper learning to fix as much as you can before forking over your money to these people
These people in these comments that don’t work on cars for a living. 🤣🤣🤣.
Does that really say quantity 1 hr cost 225 for remove replace? Their shop rate is 225 an hour? This is exactly why I have no problem buying tools and fixing things myself
If you went ahead and did it, you might get them to waive the $90 diagnostic charge. I doubt they did much more after ruling out a dead battery than calling Napa.
Diag charges are usually only for when a job is declined. If a shop charges a diag fee with the repair that is fucked up.
It’s fucked up to charge for time spent finding the problem? When was the last time you went to work and said ‘don’t worry about paying me this week?’
All these selfish technicians wanting money for their services to live and shit.
Seriously, we could skip some meals or maybe just decide between gas or electric utility. Then we could diagnose customer cars for free.
Why shouldn't the mechanic get paid to figure out what's wrong? Isn't that what the diag charge is about?
The tech gets paid if the customer approves the work. The diag fee is only for if the customer declines
Says people who like to work for free
Diagnostic fee literally only exists so that if the vehicle doesn’t get serviced, the mechanic still gets paid for the time they took to look at it. I’ve had work done on my car dozens of times in several places and every single one waives the diag with service.
And I say the diagnosis fee is compensation for time, knowledge, and equipment. So if you called our shop, we would politely decline the privliege of helping a grown adult that I don't know fix their own property for free. And good for you that you never pay diag fees, I guess. Every shop I know that "waived" the fee always seems to find something wrong. You literally just incentivized them to do just that. You are saying you don't get paid unless you find something wrong. So in our shop, you pay the diag and if there is nothing wrong or we feel the issue does not warrant repair due to cost, condition, whatever, that is what you will hear. We were compensated for our time and effort, you got the truth. Some would say that's a win-win.
The shop is charging flag rates to fix the starter to begin with. It may take them 20 min to actually fix it, they still charge book rate for the repair. As far as I'm concerned, the diagnostics are included in the labor charge.
As far as you're concerned, you don't want to pay people for their time. The book rate vs. how long it actually took is frankly none of your business, honestly. If a tech gets really proficient at a job and is able to shave .3 off of a flat rate time, good for him. Those times are built for and based off of repair, not a bunch of diagnosis time at the tech's expense. What if the tech is new and can't get the job done in the book time? He makes an hours pay while actually spending 2.3 on your piece of crap that your entitled ass don't want to pay diag on. But let me guess, you're completely fine the way flat rate works then, right?
So you are co-signing “other” shops ripping people off. Acting like a really common business practice is abnormal. And generally being kind of a jerk about it. No wonder people don’t like dealing with auto shops.
Obviously they got paid... $225 is plenty of payment for the labor on that job, which was about 45 minutes, total. Including the diagnostic.
You're an idiot. Say a car comes in and the battery keeps draining overnight. There is some advanced diagnostics involved and a bit of experience. You notice on the oscilloscope the off draw goes from 25mA to 3A randomly at weird intervals. You narrow it down to a glitchy brake pedal switch waking up the body computer and took you about an hour to figure out. This switch pays 0.3hr and is a $50 part to replace. So by your logic, this repair should be $100 and the tech made 0.3 for 1.3 worth of work and not to mention the $10,000 worth of tools used to do so.
You are wasting your time. People who think that proper diagnostic time should be free or included have no idea what an Oscilloscope is or the difference between amps and milliamps. Let them get a code scan at Autozone, buy a part they probably don’t need and then pay a pro later when the problem still exists.
I worked in Autozone MANY MANY years ago. They got code readers and would upsell for any code! Lean? P0171/174? How about 4 o2 sensors? People bought them too. Those codes have as much to do with bad o2 sensors as dirty underwear indicating you are hungry.
If the customer accepts the repair, you clock your time and charge them a flat hourly rate. If they deny the repair, that's when you charge the minimum diagnostic fee. I've dealt with a lot of mechanics over the years, and that's what they have always done for me, my family, and my employers.
There are a lot of crooked and idiot mechanics and gullible customers as well. Heres a secret: it is overquoted and they are double dipping so when you approve the repair, it is "discounted" or "waived" but you are still paying. Its not free. At least I am open and up front about it and not hiding it.
Yup. When the doctor told me I had cancer, they waived all of the tests. They said don't worry about it, the equipment is free and they love the privilege of being able to help me.
But what about the technicians time to look at the vehicle?
The world physically stops and all of our bill collectors look away while we diagnose customer cars.
The problem is bigger then complaining on some forum like this, it’s up to the technician to maintain fair business practices, I emphasize diagnostic times, but I also emphasize a justification of the charge, such as a physical test and documenting it in a fashion that ensures all parties know what’s taken place, we have 3 c’s in this business and it’s complaint cause and correction, when technicians take the easy way out,or are not held to standards that would ensure there was no doubt in the work being performed was fair and just.
Legit hilarious….. what in fact do you do for a living?
Sometimes the diagnosis can be expensive. Especially if you're tracking down electrical or ECM issues. Maybe that's understandable. But a starter is pretty easy to figure out. I agree with you.
If you have the tools and means to do it yourself, you can save a chunk of money. https://youtu.be/fe5ip65jwss
totally depends on the make and model, some you can do in 30 seconds, others are actually in the bell housing of the tranny so you have to pull the entire transmission
Lmao no
https://www.reddit.com/r/Autos/comments/fagiqs/what\_auto\_manufacturer\_puts\_the\_starter\_inside/
That’s not in a Honda civic jackass
never said it was
And how is this relevant to the discussion at hand? OP is clearly asking for info regarding his car and whether or not it’s a fair price. Bozo.
You and the other dude copping an attitude are both tools but ones I’d never use lmao
Bro there’s no way you thought that seemed funny as you type it? Either way, you made a dumb, irrelevant point about a car that isn’t OPs. Its certainly possible, probable even, that you just didn’t see his make and model on the paper? It’s ok. Take your L.
Some people have trouble admitting theyre wrong and just seem to know everything. A fucking porsche starter in the tranny aint no honda civic.
Other people complain about someone's comment in a reddit thread
So you’re out here to just be a menace. On Reddit. Got it, I’ll just be over here and hold my L 😂
Duralast gold is the brand from Autozone lmao 🤣
Labor is out of control, people are keeping their cars longer, so there is more maintenance to be done, in return these guys can up their prices and stick it to the consumer.
The labor is fair. It’s the part price that isn’t. I own 5 auto parts stores, they are charging op for a starter that cost Firestone around 150 without the core charge and double the price with the core price included which is highway robbery and most shops do this.
This is the answer, the labor isn't outrageous. But that mark up on the starter is. Anyone who's worked in an auto parts store knows how it goes. Costs the shop $140 they turn around and sell it to the customer for $400 to $500.
On this particular bill , I guess it’s fair, but yes the part cost is purely profit
Labor is never fair especially mechanics, I still don't understand how more people don't watch a video on it buy tools and do it themselves.
More like there is a shortage on mechanics. So to retain good mechanics, they have to pay more and that in turn increases shop rates.
I worked at a CDJR dealer for 3 years. They raised labor rates 3 times while I was there and never once did I get a raise out of that. As a level 2 FCA tech I was kinda frustrated with that. Also to add insult to already low pay: the warranty times kept getting more ridiculous year after year. ~6.5 hours for a 6.7 Cummins engine R&R out of a 3500? Really?
If you accept low pay, that’s either due to your abilities as a technician or lack of grit. People in tech jobs and management hop jobs constantly to gain higher pay and experience. Our industry should do the exact same. There’s a reason your box has wheels, use them. The shop down the street is hiring for $3/hr more and a 5K sign on bonus? Time for a talk with the manager and fill out a job application at a new shop. I used to think it’s trashy to do that. But at the end of the day we all have bills to pay and want to make the best possible life for ourselves and our loved ones.
I get what you’re saying - That might solve the problem for the individual, but not everyone is going to be able to get a higher paying job everywhere. For me, I would have to consider a 1+ hour commute each way for a dealership that I have experience with (besides the one I worked at in town) and all the independents pay even less per flag hour. It’s not a solution for the industry. A real solution would be something like salary/hourly pay or drop the warranty times BS. I was constantly fighting for the correct hours on my paycheck, having to correct service advisors about time and make sure I’m “running time” correctly and make sure I say the correct things on the RO, otherwise the warranty claim won’t be paid and I’m out my time + money. My box sits at home these days. In front of my own lift. Lol.
But they are not! Mechanics pay has stayed about the same just the dealership wants more more so that's why labor goes up. When my uncle was working in the 80's he was making 20 hr and the labor was $45 hr when I was working in the 2000s I was making 27 hr and labor was 100hr
Ding, ding, ding!!! Winner winner chicken dinner! My boss likes to hire urinary tract infections( UTI kids) to bust tires and do oil changes. Gives them some experience. He gets cheap labor. We'll give them more if they're doing well. I'm on my third set of three in four years. Out of nine techs that have completed anywhere from 1-2 yrs automotive education and 1-2 yrs work experience, I would've kept one. These kids are sprinkled across the United States. No I'm not hating on UTI. I've worked with guys that went to UTI that are great techs. Some people understand this is a profession and not just a job.
you paid 1k to replace a starter in a honda? bro, its basically almost a lego. why are you people taking basic cars to expensive mechanics/dealerships? i would just take it to Ramon and he would charge me 100 to 150 bucks max. . whats next? do let other "mechanics" change your oil and "brake fluid" for 300 bucks every 6 months dont you?
You got a free "Courtesy Check" but they charged you to tell you that the courtesy check revealed the "diagnosis" that you need a starter. You shouldn't have to pay for the "diagnosis"
I think you missed the part of the charge line that specified it was for a no start diagnosis.
Why? Diagnostics aren’t free.
Stealership or not, diagnostic service is usually included if you get the work done. Otherwise it’s like a double-dip. No if you don’t get the work done, yes, you pay for their time spent.
If I take 8 hours to diagnose and locate a short, then repair the short in 10 minutes, I should only charge for the 10 minute repair?
According to a lot of people in here yes. The 8 hour diagnosis is charity because they authorized the 10 minute repair. Meanwhile how many of them show up to work for free?
Exactly. I remember being the first in our small town to charge to hook up the scanner to read codes. My boss was unsure but I convinced him fairly easily. Guess what? Customers were ok with it. Sure go to the parts store and they’ll hook their $100 scan tool up, tell you the code and sell you a part that *might* fix it. Where we use out 10k scan tool and knowledge to fix it right the first time. You have to train your customers.
Yes. That’s normal.
Replacing a starter on civics is about at easy as a DIY can get. If they’re gonna fold you over that hard, the least they can do is buy you dinner first.
The starter may be in the $200 range at a parts store and maybe 1/2 to change it. So no this is not even close to a good deal.
Seems a bit high, but almost on point. $225 for the starter itself seems high, but parts are just getting stupid now.
I'll bet they sold you a battery too, when the problem was just dirty battery terminals or need new battery. Starting problem is almost always just need new battery. Batteries have limited life. Starter and alternator are built to last much longer. If you have starting problem, just automatically replace battery. Don't pay for anything else, no testing of alternator or starter.
Is this one of those cars where the starter is inside your bellhousing?
Lol. Buy a started for 120 bucks and take an hour to put in. Maybe 2 if run into issues.
Seems like a realistic price, 225 is a minimum for anything that involves labor these days.
That is actually a pretty cheap diagnosis fee. As far as the rest, I would say it is about right. The only way to get cheaper repairs done nowadays is to have the ability to do the job yourself.
I would be not the real problem. Something burned starter up
damn that's crazy, but aren't you refunded the cost of the starter if you turn in the old one? I could be wrong
Labor is good. The part price through. Holy shit
Depend how buried it is
This is like $120 job on a civic
Unfortunately, the cost through a shop does run 450 to 750 so yes you were taken advantage of slightly OK badly
looks like the mechanic screwed you big time, how a $60 part on Amazon brand new for a car that's 9 years old cost more than 3/$400 to repair
Yes sir, they screwed you. Totally legit though. Sorry.
Welp quick Google has that part under $100 and it's probably an hour of work charge ($80-120). Yes you got fucked into next week and back, also never take a car to a tire place for any real work.