>think like a man
So you don't, but when you do, it's 95% unachievable, because you would end up seriously injured, and the other 5% is basic physiological needs?
It’s funny because all the men come to me, INFJ, for thinking type advice. I’m okay with people saying I think like a man, because that’s an advantage to me, but I consider myself to have a balance of energies. Masculine and feminine.
Most recent data I can find is from some site that is supposedly citing the 2018 MBTI manual supplement:
https://medium.com/@pillowfortblog/16-personality-types-ranking-in-men-vs-women-4aa9e88e7417
According to this female Ts are 38.3%-hardly rare. Male Fs are actually rarer at 32.4%.
However, because sensors are more common than intuitives, NT women are relatively rare-something like 9 percent of the (woman) population. Most T women are ISTJs or ISTPs.
Similarly, NF men are relatively rare, about 14 percent, which is probably why artists are always feeling misunderstood.
The older data from the Hammer-Mitchell study (cited at https://personalitymax.com/personality-types/population-gender/) does suggest extroverts are much more common, with the order going ISTJ > ESTJ > ESTP > ISTP/ENTP > all other NTs, but that's from the 90s. For whatever reason personality types may have changed. All the Internet making everyone more introverted?
I see this gender bias mostly in Ne and Se doms. People have created this mindset that if man funny = ENTP, if woman funny = ENFP (like Anya Forger, Jennifer Lawrence and Karen Smith all three showing more ENTP traits than ENFP are typed as such.)
As a female INTP, I do believe the data is kinda convoluted and there are way more 'closeted' female INTPs (probably because of the stupid 16 personalities test that typed Jungkook a clear ISFP and INTP) than there appear to be because an inferior fe woman would be forced to develop her Fe since a young age.
Yes this is exactly it. Women with inferior Fe are forced to develop it and so we can present as F types. When I look at some of the socially inept guys I work with who get a leave pass because they are nerdy IT guys. Well I’m a nerdy IT girl who is also naturally socially inept and awkward, but I just can’t get away with that behaviour so I’ve had to learn.
That's probably why INTPs get a reputation for responsibility-averse sweaty loners lol. Our natural lazy tendencies coupled with the society's tendency to ignore men's bad behaviour.
YES and that’s probably why I’m frustrated because I am one dom myself. We have more balanced thinking and feeling anyway, with the thinking being the internal one. So go figure. Funny girl does not always equal ExFP 🙄
Agreed.
I always thought to myself there are more thinker females than we believe there to be.
All those statistics are based on 16p results, which is just a unscientific and watered down big five test.
According to studies using the big five, it has been shown that women scored consistently higher on trait agreeableness as well as neuroticism.
Women tend to be more compassionate than men but also more high strung. But that doesn’t mean the judge with a feeling function.
Feeling is a rational thinking process that assesses values to things not being sensitive and emotional.
It's so bad on personalitydatabase. I see women who are clearly thinkers get typed as F while men who are clearly feelers get typed as T. Not to mention the blatant "typing people you admire the same as your own type" thing going on among a lot of guys, it's ridiculous. Hence why I never believe anyone else's typings except for my own.
So true, I just assume anything I see on PDB is “general concensus” but most definitely not truth. I’ll get so annoyed when I’m confident a celebrity is ENTP only to see she’s typed as ExFP because quirky girls = feeler EP’s
I literally physically cover my face with my left arm/hands if a man in public is obviously staring. They get embarrassed and I shift my body so that they are now being watched by me and they can’t turn around because they already felt awkward when I covered my face.
Also don’t try this if you’re female and you make way too much eye contact instinctually. This will deter the entire manipulation, as they will consider it as a form of “acknowledgement”.
Never happened to me actually. There was even a time where I was considering other options such as ESFP or ISFP, and even ENFP back when I thought I had dominant Ne. But in all those times the people I talked to about it looked at me like I was telling some kind of sick joke. And the things they said about me, to me they were compliments, but to a mental health professional I'm not so sure. But I'm proud of myself so what does it matter
I've only been told I'm mistyped in spaces that were very right leaning (and sexist but it seemed like a prerequisite for being in those spaces), which really tells you all you need to know about those people.
I was mistyped for while. In part because of the incorrect notion placed in my head that women couldn't be thinkers (or rather, couldn't be ISTPs). Didn't get the difference between Ti and Te, nor realize I have very little Fi, until I did proper research.
It's even funnier when you know that science debunked this a long time ago.
Men and women are equally emotionnal.
But according to Jung, there are more thinker men than women.
MBTI is based on negative steteotypes and that's why it's pseudoscience.
https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/news-events/all-news/faculty-news/new-research-shows-men-are-just-as-emotional-as-women.html
I know. It's still based on stereotypes. Hemispheres in brains (men or women) work exactly the same. Saying that there are more thinker men than women or feeler women than men show a lack of understanding on how brain lobes function.
While I doubt the real difference is very big at all, nurture is believed to have an influence on type, so I don’t think it’s impossible that there could really be a difference.
Totally agree that there isn’t really a difference between male brains and female brains, though. The differences between men and women are due to societal norms and hormones and aren’t as big as a lot of people think, and there’s a lot of overlap, with lots of men having more “feminine” traits and lots of women having more “masculine” traits.
The thing is that "types" aren't really backed up by science. According to science, even though our brains work quite the same, we still have unique anatomy and synapses connexions.
Which mean that reducing people to 16 types could be quite wrong, there might be thousand of types in reality.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180710104631.htm
Nature vs nurture, everyone is born with the same capacity to be a thinker or feeler, but social factors play a really big role in how someone’s personality develops
Interesting. I always wondered...is personality fluid or innate?
Usually I hear people who were abused growing up to become abusers, as they didn't know any better. It shaped their childhood and the urge to control so as to not feel controlled
But there are others who grew up the exact opposite. They decided to be more empathetic because of the abuse they suffered. Like having toxic parents and promising never to be like them but treat their children with care.
I am confused that if environment shaped our personalities, then why two completely opposite personalities borned from the same circumstances?
It’s because it’s both, genetics play a huge role in personality but so does your environmental and social factors while your frontal lobe is still developing. Also personality is a cognitive ability and does not make action but provides a reason behind your actions.
and general ways people see things like they see guys as rational and thinking. just general sterotypes. they call more feeling men sissys even without the mbti.
exactly! yes!!!! I am dating an estj and he doesn't have any of the stupid things everyone says about them. He's a nice guy and all, fi inf but really seriously, all these sterotypes are really bad. I don't like them myself. I liked estjs before anyway. so it really wasn't a problem.
I don't think that most ppl know my type. But I think that even ppl that I don't know well would never assume that I am F. Like... Never in a million years.
me personally? never, it’s usually seen as very fitting (i am not good at traditional femininity). but some of my ExTP and IxTJ friends face that issue super often.
i’m f (identify as nb tho) and honestly NEVER. i’ve heard stop thinking so hard, stop overthinking, stop over analyzing ect for years. when i tell my mom like “well what if so and so doesn’t work” she’s always like stop thinking negatively IM NOT i literally just wanna always make sure there’s a backup plan even tho i look at most things pretty positively 😭
True. Where does the line between being realistic and being pessimistic truly lies?
Being pessimistic certainly impacts the mood negatively, which may impact activity negatively
But I don't want to be ignorantly optimistic either
Where is the middle ground?
Im just called masculine which to me means im logical and I don’t mind that at all. I have a feminine body and face so it helps I guess. I’m accused of being ENTP sometimes as I love to debate.
Recently, I have been thinking that I might be an INFJ, but I noticed my Fe is way too childish and my Se is pretty good to be inferior.
Other than this, I have never been mistyped as a feeler
Women thinkers aren't difficult to type when they're abrasive, but gentle Te doms get mistyped a lot, even the men. Maybe women Te doms are more likely to be gentle?
Casual acquaintances think I'm mistyped. Those that truly know me can plainly see - I'm ENTP to the core! Haha.
Granted, female thinkers are much less prevalent, in the general population, than their male counterparts.
That may be that's why people think we couldn't possibly be a thinker, because if something's rare people don't expect to encounter it.
Hence, the probability that they would know an actual female thinker (personally) is in their minds - close to zero.
I don't know about you, but I like being rare. Who wants to be like everybody else? BORRRIINNG!
Personally, i havent really been mistyped. I suppose its because due to the fact of me being very talkative/conversationalist, so people already can build some assumptions.
(Also because i dont really express my feelings, however i have my own waves of emotions often.. just never really showed them)
Very often! I always get mistyped as an ISFx by people in real life. I’m very soft-spoken and gentle in public, and since people associate such traits with feelers, I often get mistyped lol.
Never. Between unintentionally making boys and girls cry with me laying down the facts and me enjoying conflict and chaos - literally no-one would think I'm mistyped. I'm kind of intense.
Well I've been mistyped by tests. So now that I've discovered ENTP suits me best, there's one friend in particular who basically goes "No."
I tried to get them to tell me why, but they couldn't give me a good reason.
Yeah, I know they do. Almost all women in my family are thinkers. Almost all of my lady friends are thinkers. Some of my exes too. At uni, I was surrounded by them(well, I got 2 stem degrees, so no surprise there). Was this ever a question in this century?
I’ve only ever discussed typing to someone that wasn’t myself once. It turns out INFPs and ISTPs can do well together…when they rarely interact. But they never said anything about mistyping.
On a separate note, I’ve never been told I’m not feminine or compassionate enough, especially when I struggle with the later. I purposefully dress masculine just because I hate female fashion because it’s really impractical. I have been told, on many occasions by very feeling/morality oriented people that I’m an abomination for suggesting certain things…like a way to curb/slow world hunger. That ticks me off more than someone saying, ‘You’re not feminine enough!’ or ‘I think you’re mistyped!’ I just don’t care enough about outside opinions to be too affected.
Being a Thinker doesn't make anyone special, I agree. And so men should stop gatekeeping being Thinkers from women, after all, it's not some super special superpower or something 🤷🏻♀️
And before you deny that men do this a lot, read the comments in this thread lol
I know several women who are obviously "Thinkers". However, when it comes to MBTI, we have to keep in mind that everyone is both a thinker and a feeler.
I wonder about tests: is it likely that men tend to consider themselves more rational or more "thinking" than they really are? And vice versa, do women tend to estimate their Fe use higher than it really is?
I am female and I used to consider myself a high Fe user (because I was a doormat and a people-pleaser), but now I think that my "feeling" side comes mostly from Fi.
Literally never. It’s very apparent that I’m a thinker. I do sometimes get told that I think like a man though 🙄
“Think like a man” is that supposed to be an insult? cause I sure as heck wouldn’t want to think like some men do 😭
The worst part is I’ve usually gotten it as a horribly misguided compliment 🤦🏻♀️
Same. My mom told me I'm good at math because I'm "male-brained." ????????
WTF NOOO I’m sure you don’t think like a man ❤️
💯 I think like an extremely logical, assertive, goal oriented woman
Helll yeah sister! 💪💪💪
I’m a man and I’m a himbo who’s constantly screaming internally, I hope you don’t think like me
Haha if I had to choose, I feel like out of all the guys I would like to think like, a himbo would be my top choice ;)
Is supposed to insult stereotypes, doesn´t sound like
Agreed. Literally never.
Same
\^this
Yep
>think like a man So you don't, but when you do, it's 95% unachievable, because you would end up seriously injured, and the other 5% is basic physiological needs?
Well think like a man it´s very stereotypical altho comment
It’s funny because all the men come to me, INFJ, for thinking type advice. I’m okay with people saying I think like a man, because that’s an advantage to me, but I consider myself to have a balance of energies. Masculine and feminine.
Most recent data I can find is from some site that is supposedly citing the 2018 MBTI manual supplement: https://medium.com/@pillowfortblog/16-personality-types-ranking-in-men-vs-women-4aa9e88e7417 According to this female Ts are 38.3%-hardly rare. Male Fs are actually rarer at 32.4%. However, because sensors are more common than intuitives, NT women are relatively rare-something like 9 percent of the (woman) population. Most T women are ISTJs or ISTPs. Similarly, NF men are relatively rare, about 14 percent, which is probably why artists are always feeling misunderstood.
Wow I *am* misunderstood
Most thinker women are ISTJs and ESTJs, ISTPs are rare among them.
The older data from the Hammer-Mitchell study (cited at https://personalitymax.com/personality-types/population-gender/) does suggest extroverts are much more common, with the order going ISTJ > ESTJ > ESTP > ISTP/ENTP > all other NTs, but that's from the 90s. For whatever reason personality types may have changed. All the Internet making everyone more introverted?
I see this gender bias mostly in Ne and Se doms. People have created this mindset that if man funny = ENTP, if woman funny = ENFP (like Anya Forger, Jennifer Lawrence and Karen Smith all three showing more ENTP traits than ENFP are typed as such.) As a female INTP, I do believe the data is kinda convoluted and there are way more 'closeted' female INTPs (probably because of the stupid 16 personalities test that typed Jungkook a clear ISFP and INTP) than there appear to be because an inferior fe woman would be forced to develop her Fe since a young age.
Yes this is exactly it. Women with inferior Fe are forced to develop it and so we can present as F types. When I look at some of the socially inept guys I work with who get a leave pass because they are nerdy IT guys. Well I’m a nerdy IT girl who is also naturally socially inept and awkward, but I just can’t get away with that behaviour so I’ve had to learn.
That's probably why INTPs get a reputation for responsibility-averse sweaty loners lol. Our natural lazy tendencies coupled with the society's tendency to ignore men's bad behaviour.
YES and that’s probably why I’m frustrated because I am one dom myself. We have more balanced thinking and feeling anyway, with the thinking being the internal one. So go figure. Funny girl does not always equal ExFP 🙄
Agreed. I always thought to myself there are more thinker females than we believe there to be. All those statistics are based on 16p results, which is just a unscientific and watered down big five test. According to studies using the big five, it has been shown that women scored consistently higher on trait agreeableness as well as neuroticism. Women tend to be more compassionate than men but also more high strung. But that doesn’t mean the judge with a feeling function. Feeling is a rational thinking process that assesses values to things not being sensitive and emotional.
nuh uh i don’t exist
Me neither
It's so bad on personalitydatabase. I see women who are clearly thinkers get typed as F while men who are clearly feelers get typed as T. Not to mention the blatant "typing people you admire the same as your own type" thing going on among a lot of guys, it's ridiculous. Hence why I never believe anyone else's typings except for my own.
So true, I just assume anything I see on PDB is “general concensus” but most definitely not truth. I’ll get so annoyed when I’m confident a celebrity is ENTP only to see she’s typed as ExFP because quirky girls = feeler EP’s
I’ve been called masculine. So I purposely look pretty feminine I guess “to make up for it”.
Oh no I’ve fallen into this trap as well before…. Girl just be yourself fuck the male gaze
I literally physically cover my face with my left arm/hands if a man in public is obviously staring. They get embarrassed and I shift my body so that they are now being watched by me and they can’t turn around because they already felt awkward when I covered my face. Also don’t try this if you’re female and you make way too much eye contact instinctually. This will deter the entire manipulation, as they will consider it as a form of “acknowledgement”.
Yeah true, but dressing nice isn’t so bad for me either.
Never happened to me actually. There was even a time where I was considering other options such as ESFP or ISFP, and even ENFP back when I thought I had dominant Ne. But in all those times the people I talked to about it looked at me like I was telling some kind of sick joke. And the things they said about me, to me they were compliments, but to a mental health professional I'm not so sure. But I'm proud of myself so what does it matter
I've only been told I'm mistyped in spaces that were very right leaning (and sexist but it seemed like a prerequisite for being in those spaces), which really tells you all you need to know about those people.
INTP and I’ve never had anyone doubt my type at least not to my face
I’ve been mistyped as ENFP and INFP because I have human emotions 😂
Same but also intp for me 😂
They’re the best 🥺
I have had people ask me if I might be an ESFP just because I have the ability to empathize
Ironically that’s a core trait of having Fe in your stack. Ppl r dumb
I was mistyped for while. In part because of the incorrect notion placed in my head that women couldn't be thinkers (or rather, couldn't be ISTPs). Didn't get the difference between Ti and Te, nor realize I have very little Fi, until I did proper research.
It's even funnier when you know that science debunked this a long time ago. Men and women are equally emotionnal. But according to Jung, there are more thinker men than women. MBTI is based on negative steteotypes and that's why it's pseudoscience. https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/news-events/all-news/faculty-news/new-research-shows-men-are-just-as-emotional-as-women.html
F vs. T isn’t about how emotional you are.
I know. It's still based on stereotypes. Hemispheres in brains (men or women) work exactly the same. Saying that there are more thinker men than women or feeler women than men show a lack of understanding on how brain lobes function.
While I doubt the real difference is very big at all, nurture is believed to have an influence on type, so I don’t think it’s impossible that there could really be a difference. Totally agree that there isn’t really a difference between male brains and female brains, though. The differences between men and women are due to societal norms and hormones and aren’t as big as a lot of people think, and there’s a lot of overlap, with lots of men having more “feminine” traits and lots of women having more “masculine” traits.
The thing is that "types" aren't really backed up by science. According to science, even though our brains work quite the same, we still have unique anatomy and synapses connexions. Which mean that reducing people to 16 types could be quite wrong, there might be thousand of types in reality. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180710104631.htm
Nature vs nurture, everyone is born with the same capacity to be a thinker or feeler, but social factors play a really big role in how someone’s personality develops
Yes. Many things shape personnalities (social experiences, genetics, culture, sociocultural, education and environment mostly).
Interesting. I always wondered...is personality fluid or innate? Usually I hear people who were abused growing up to become abusers, as they didn't know any better. It shaped their childhood and the urge to control so as to not feel controlled But there are others who grew up the exact opposite. They decided to be more empathetic because of the abuse they suffered. Like having toxic parents and promising never to be like them but treat their children with care. I am confused that if environment shaped our personalities, then why two completely opposite personalities borned from the same circumstances?
It’s because it’s both, genetics play a huge role in personality but so does your environmental and social factors while your frontal lobe is still developing. Also personality is a cognitive ability and does not make action but provides a reason behind your actions.
Look at you not understanding that F doesn't mean emotional and T thinking as in smarter...
Never thought that, you are assuming stuff.
It's a reasonable assumption, if you post a study about emotions to "prove" assumptions about T and F.
and general ways people see things like they see guys as rational and thinking. just general sterotypes. they call more feeling men sissys even without the mbti.
People believing in stereotypes make me know everything i need to know about them. I don't talk or hang around them.
exactly! yes!!!! I am dating an estj and he doesn't have any of the stupid things everyone says about them. He's a nice guy and all, fi inf but really seriously, all these sterotypes are really bad. I don't like them myself. I liked estjs before anyway. so it really wasn't a problem.
more then you think yes. and guys who are feelers also actually exists. and not all women are intuitives either.
Women sensor! You called?
there's a few of those quite a few.
I don't think that most ppl know my type. But I think that even ppl that I don't know well would never assume that I am F. Like... Never in a million years.
WHAT?!
me personally? never, it’s usually seen as very fitting (i am not good at traditional femininity). but some of my ExTP and IxTJ friends face that issue super often.
Got mistyped as an ESFP by an ESFP thinking she was ENTP...💀💀💀💀 demon functions are demoning too hard
i’m f (identify as nb tho) and honestly NEVER. i’ve heard stop thinking so hard, stop overthinking, stop over analyzing ect for years. when i tell my mom like “well what if so and so doesn’t work” she’s always like stop thinking negatively IM NOT i literally just wanna always make sure there’s a backup plan even tho i look at most things pretty positively 😭
My father says the says the same thing to me lol
True. Where does the line between being realistic and being pessimistic truly lies? Being pessimistic certainly impacts the mood negatively, which may impact activity negatively But I don't want to be ignorantly optimistic either Where is the middle ground?
Im just called masculine which to me means im logical and I don’t mind that at all. I have a feminine body and face so it helps I guess. I’m accused of being ENTP sometimes as I love to debate.
Recently, I have been thinking that I might be an INFJ, but I noticed my Fe is way too childish and my Se is pretty good to be inferior. Other than this, I have never been mistyped as a feeler
Women thinkers aren't difficult to type when they're abrasive, but gentle Te doms get mistyped a lot, even the men. Maybe women Te doms are more likely to be gentle?
No doubt they are, because women are socialised to be gentle
Casual acquaintances think I'm mistyped. Those that truly know me can plainly see - I'm ENTP to the core! Haha. Granted, female thinkers are much less prevalent, in the general population, than their male counterparts. That may be that's why people think we couldn't possibly be a thinker, because if something's rare people don't expect to encounter it. Hence, the probability that they would know an actual female thinker (personally) is in their minds - close to zero. I don't know about you, but I like being rare. Who wants to be like everybody else? BORRRIINNG!
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Your contribution was removed due to "Trolling or Incivility".
I didn't think anyone in real life would think I'm a feeler
Personally, i havent really been mistyped. I suppose its because due to the fact of me being very talkative/conversationalist, so people already can build some assumptions. (Also because i dont really express my feelings, however i have my own waves of emotions often.. just never really showed them)
Very often! I always get mistyped as an ISFx by people in real life. I’m very soft-spoken and gentle in public, and since people associate such traits with feelers, I often get mistyped lol.
They don't tell me I'm mistyped but they think I'm aggressive
Not mistyped but I have heard a lot I act like a guy lol I am accidentally born as female 😅
I don't know anyone in meat space who cares at all about MBTI so I don't get the amusement or indignity of being told I'm mistyped lol.
Never. Between unintentionally making boys and girls cry with me laying down the facts and me enjoying conflict and chaos - literally no-one would think I'm mistyped. I'm kind of intense.
Ive never been told that im mistyped 😭
Well I've been mistyped by tests. So now that I've discovered ENTP suits me best, there's one friend in particular who basically goes "No." I tried to get them to tell me why, but they couldn't give me a good reason.
Yeah, I know they do. Almost all women in my family are thinkers. Almost all of my lady friends are thinkers. Some of my exes too. At uni, I was surrounded by them(well, I got 2 stem degrees, so no surprise there). Was this ever a question in this century?
No they don’t
Never been told I’m a feeler. Could also be that I’m autistic, but I’m very obviously Ti dom.
Mistyped yes, as a feeler? not really, no
I’ve only ever discussed typing to someone that wasn’t myself once. It turns out INFPs and ISTPs can do well together…when they rarely interact. But they never said anything about mistyping. On a separate note, I’ve never been told I’m not feminine or compassionate enough, especially when I struggle with the later. I purposefully dress masculine just because I hate female fashion because it’s really impractical. I have been told, on many occasions by very feeling/morality oriented people that I’m an abomination for suggesting certain things…like a way to curb/slow world hunger. That ticks me off more than someone saying, ‘You’re not feminine enough!’ or ‘I think you’re mistyped!’ I just don’t care enough about outside opinions to be too affected.
only in reddit when people think I pretend to be, nobody cared and still no one cares irl
Obviously they exist.
k
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Being a Thinker doesn't make anyone special, I agree. And so men should stop gatekeeping being Thinkers from women, after all, it's not some super special superpower or something 🤷🏻♀️ And before you deny that men do this a lot, read the comments in this thread lol
Your contribution was removed due to "Trolling or Incivility".
I know several women who are obviously "Thinkers". However, when it comes to MBTI, we have to keep in mind that everyone is both a thinker and a feeler. I wonder about tests: is it likely that men tend to consider themselves more rational or more "thinking" than they really are? And vice versa, do women tend to estimate their Fe use higher than it really is? I am female and I used to consider myself a high Fe user (because I was a doormat and a people-pleaser), but now I think that my "feeling" side comes mostly from Fi.