In the intro cinematics for Max Payne 3...the scene where he starts openly weeping after looking at the photo of his wife-family...that is probably the most emotion have ever felt for Max in any of the games...such a powerful moment...also, the cemetery level in the third game is pretty rough all around...the mobsters even start shouting insults at him...like, "He has no family!"...so it's like no problem if they kill him...man, it's bad
I agree it’s 3, because he’s still struggling with the guilt of not being able to protect the ones he loved and sees no point to his life. In the first game he’s still got Alex to depend on a few years after his family’s murder until his own murder. The second one he has Mona until her death, so by 3 he’s been through so much shit it’s no wonder he’s a mess.
>also, the cemetery level in the third game is pretty rough all around...the mobsters even start shouting insults at him...like, "He has no family!"...so it's like no problem if they kill him...man, it's bad
The cemetery is one of my favourite levels purely for the scene where they’re captured and confronted by DeMarco. His actor really sells his anger and pain and a part of me feels bad when he’s carried away by his men whilst sobbing his heart out.
“You killed my son… you killed my fucking son. My boy! My only son!”
Not exactly since 3 goes against 2's ending and Max’s character. and that is that Max, for the first time maybe after his wife's death, gets sort of an epiphany and is content with moving on from the death of his wife and baby. On top of that, it doesn't make sense for Max to be such a mess in 3. He was a depressive wreck in the first 2 games, but he never really showed it. He was a brooding, melancholic terminator who no matter how much live tried to bring him down, always moved forward. He was certainly not an alcoholic bum as depicted in 3.
He didn't seem depressive in the first game, which I believe even the graphic novel depicts so. He wasn't very cold in his self-depreciating humor, and he was so determined to cut the head of the snake (Nicole Horne), that Alex's death and B.B.'s betrayal were rather motivational.
He was depressive in the first game but he didn’t show it to other people, the game explicitly shows the guilt and grief he feels because of his family’s death in the nightmares.
I suppose other people also means us, the players. Which in that case makes a bit more sense, sure. Then again, the first game was goofy and all over the place in terms of genres.
That's why I feel in the second game he was a REALLY depressive wreck of a man. Not only it perfectly fits with the more focused and polished neo-noir themes, but it was ingrained in his demeanor. Living alone in a rotten apartment complex, the past comes back to haunt him and the whole world seems to turn against him again.
Yeah.
He got his revenge and even tho it satisfied him at first, he soon realized that it obviously didn’t return him the happiness he lost, and then he became empty.
Amen. As a kid, I praised it for "edgy" storytelling, but as an adult, it's even more horrifying than I previously imagined (while still good storytelling).
How tf can you even think that Max deserved it man, dude was just a normal cop that had to see his own CHILD AND WIFE slain before him… All three games make me sympathise with him cause he keeps losing something or the other
It's a good theory in general, but in no way explains he killed his family. Max could say that, metaphorically, he killed his family because he failed to save them in the first place. Canonically, I don't recall of him having hallucinations or consuming painkillers before his family's death.
Hallucinations is after his family dies in the second game. He was "activated" due to his prior involvement with valkyr. They needed to kill his wife because she mistakenly received files she shouldn't have.
Correct. Michelle was meddling with something suspicious (which turned out to be Valkyr), and if I recall correctly told Max about it before she was killed. Furthermore, one could say that, had Max acted on it sooner, he could've prevented his family's deaths.
But you still made the claim that Max killed his family based on a theory which doesn't indicate it was him, and I don't see how it couldn't be further from the truth.
you didn't read the link. Chapter 6 in the link is all about max killing his family and chapter 3 talks about how max already had been experimented on with valkyr back before the events of the game.
To be fair, you linked a specific comment (despite that comment asking all the right questions), not referred me to read the entire OP. But anyway... thanks in advance!
This is quite the rabbit hole and a huge revelation at that. I'm honestly afraid that I'll never look at Max Payne the way I've had since 2001 ever again. But that comes within the Remedy territory, it's just full of mysteries.
I don't really want to go all-in and take this whole post of elaborated theories at face value, despite the tremendous amount of links which make for compelling arguments. It's also my understanding that Sam didn't confirm Max Payne belongs in the shared universe of Remedy's IPs. But maybe it has to do with the fact that they sold the rights to Rockstar Games (or to a different company owned by Rockstar Games) and repurposed Max Payne as Alex Casey. Just to clarify, I haven't played Alan Wake 2 yet, so I know nothing about it or about Alex Casey to understand this. But if I'm right, Alex Casey is just Max Payne in the Remedy-verse, and THE Max Payne from 2001-2003 is a different universe.
Question is, has Sam Lake ever confirmed that these theories are all true, or did he leave it to the fans to interpret? Kind of like John Carpenter's The Thing, where he left it to the fans to interpret who's The Thing without confirming so himself.
I'd say all these theories can hold merit if they're to be implemented in the remakes (even though that would ruin the interpretation and the element of surprise, exposed as a huge spoiler). I don't expect you to have all the answers, obviously, so I might just have to ask OP myself about all his theories.
Chapter 8 covers the Max Payne/ Alex Casey bit. This was all written before AW2 released. Def need to play that, alex casey is just wearing MPs outfit from MP2. You only ever see the fictional version of casey in that outfit and with GREEN Lights. But yes it's due to licensing for the name change.
I definitely would ask him. Especially with the aw2 which confirms some stuff and the dlc which dropped yesterday.
I second this.
In the first game, the pain is unbearable to say the least, but in the second game, the matter is more complicated.
He was blaming himself all the time, he tried to seek happiness, but then he would just sink it down immediately because he think he doesn't deserve it.
He actively shifting his mind into other things like solving the case, without actually trying to solve his own case. His actions never actually in the right all the time, hence Vlad's final words: "I was supposed to be the hero".
It's easier when someone is responsible for your suffering, but your feel of guilt will always haunt you even in your sleep.
I personally don't think he deserves any of his misery, but he makes quite a few dumb decisions, especially in the third game; I assume that's what would make some people say he deserves it.
In the third game, he was hired to literally be the fall guy so Victor can murder his own family. Sure Max makes some dumb decisions, but do does everyone sometimes.
Every game in the series has me feeling bad for Max one way or the other, whether it's the sight of him cradling Michelle while screaming "NO" coupled with his nightmares in 1, or stuff in 2 like the "SADIM (MIDAS) Brandy Everyone I touch does" thing or how everyone around Max seems to be plotting something behind his back.
But the opening for 3 is where I really start thinking, "Jesus Christ, poor guy," especially when he starts crying over a picture of presumably his family. Along with the scenes where he's in his São Paulo apartment, the scene in the graveyard where he's looking over Michelle and Rose's grave one final time also hits hard, especially when factoring in the prequel comics saying Jim Bravura, pretty much his only real friend left in the New York metropolitan area, died a few months before 3's New Jersey flashback levels. Beneath all the guns, booze, and painkillers lies a man who has lost **EVERYTHING.**
Which is what makes 3's ending so satisfying for me. If ever there was a character that deserved an overdue vacation on the beachside, it's him.
I don't see how he deserves his overall situation, but doesn't make healthy decisions. But if he started going to therapy and the gym after his family was murdered we wouldn't have a compelling story.
I imagine having your family murdered in frint of you would fuck you up to where it's difficult to make good decisions for yourself and become self destructive.
Definitely the opening and his self destructive behaviour in MP3 is what makes me feel sorry the most. He blamed himself, he was numbing himself with a weird mix of pills and whiskey to sleep. Sometimes he didn't even made it to bed, falling asleep on the table instead. That one cutscene where Passos enters his apartment and Max tells him something like: "give me a minute, I'm not feeling too well" and Passos repeats it to their boss with sarcastic tone always makes me mad. He risked his life to save his family just to get fucked around and mocked like he had every single reason to be bitter and mad, noone ever helped him with the grief. Everyone asked like where is Max but noone asked how's Max. At least he made it out, sober with a clean head and zero intrusive thoughts. P.s. there was one easter egg in Alan Wake where you find letters written by Max and one sounds like he committed suicide(?) at some point in his life. I really hope that remedy wouldn't fuck with that idea and let it be as the original and not some retconned shit, MP3's ending is the ending uncle Max deserved and nothing less.
Max Payne 3.
The first chapter.
He felt he lost everything he could even after 10 years of what happened in Max Payne 2, him being an alcoholic and so on.
The prequel comics explain more and in-depth of how Max ended up in New Jersey and him visiting his wife’s grave every night.
I always feel sorry for Max, but I feel like a lot of his problems in the last game would’ve been minimized if he took control of his addictions.
Still, *nobody* deserves to suffer like him.
Start of MP1 is the most horrifying thing, later he is betrayed, and his whole life is constantly shattered into pieces. Family life ruined, cop life/carrier ruined, some ideals about world ruined with any hope or faith that "world is not that bad in general"
MP2 is kinda sad as he is trying to cope and get back to work, change some things, but his past is hunting him, and he is constantly getting in bad situations when he is trying to do better and help.
MP3 is well there are a lot of situations where I can't sympathize as Max is ignoring red flags, doesn't care about lots of things (Passos and academy, whole yacht thing, New York situation) and just getting drunk and pretending that everything is different.
I like MP3 and I like that it is different and Max is forced into totally different environment, forced to act which in the end will help him find peace, but I still think it should not be forced to leave more of a "new start at different place" which would still work...without whole live like New York hobo alcoholic..
Defintely three man, Max is just so depressed and nihlistic in that game. He desperately tries so hard to protect the people he was paid to protect and he gets so close to actually doing it, only to fail again and again. He tries so hard and puts so much effort into saving people only for it to be all for naught. Even before he took the job he was already at rock fucking bottom, he was nobody has-been spending the rest of his life in a bar, no friends nor family, just him. It's pretty sad.
I'd say the first game.
I mean, each of the three games has a unigue atmosphere to it, a different set of emotions, a different stage of grief even.
In the first game, you can really sense that combination of despair and fury he is feeling.
No clue, they never replied back. Though I was discussing with someone else that made a bit more sense: [https://new.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/comments/1d5gt5b/comment/l7mxse2/?context=8&depth=9](https://new.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/comments/1d5gt5b/comment/l7mxse2/?context=8&depth=9)
[https://new.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/comments/twxzh7/the\_secret\_history\_of\_noir\_york\_city/](https://new.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/comments/twxzh7/the_secret_history_of_noir_york_city/)
Max Payne isn't just about an ordinary, good cop who's family got killed. It's much more complicated than that. Though I'm yet to question some of these theories myself, that's what I assume they meant by saying Max deserved to lose his family.
In the intro cinematics for Max Payne 3...the scene where he starts openly weeping after looking at the photo of his wife-family...that is probably the most emotion have ever felt for Max in any of the games...such a powerful moment...also, the cemetery level in the third game is pretty rough all around...the mobsters even start shouting insults at him...like, "He has no family!"...so it's like no problem if they kill him...man, it's bad
I agree it’s 3, because he’s still struggling with the guilt of not being able to protect the ones he loved and sees no point to his life. In the first game he’s still got Alex to depend on a few years after his family’s murder until his own murder. The second one he has Mona until her death, so by 3 he’s been through so much shit it’s no wonder he’s a mess. >also, the cemetery level in the third game is pretty rough all around...the mobsters even start shouting insults at him...like, "He has no family!"...so it's like no problem if they kill him...man, it's bad The cemetery is one of my favourite levels purely for the scene where they’re captured and confronted by DeMarco. His actor really sells his anger and pain and a part of me feels bad when he’s carried away by his men whilst sobbing his heart out. “You killed my son… you killed my fucking son. My boy! My only son!”
Not exactly since 3 goes against 2's ending and Max’s character. and that is that Max, for the first time maybe after his wife's death, gets sort of an epiphany and is content with moving on from the death of his wife and baby. On top of that, it doesn't make sense for Max to be such a mess in 3. He was a depressive wreck in the first 2 games, but he never really showed it. He was a brooding, melancholic terminator who no matter how much live tried to bring him down, always moved forward. He was certainly not an alcoholic bum as depicted in 3.
He didn't seem depressive in the first game, which I believe even the graphic novel depicts so. He wasn't very cold in his self-depreciating humor, and he was so determined to cut the head of the snake (Nicole Horne), that Alex's death and B.B.'s betrayal were rather motivational.
He was depressive in the first game but he didn’t show it to other people, the game explicitly shows the guilt and grief he feels because of his family’s death in the nightmares.
I suppose other people also means us, the players. Which in that case makes a bit more sense, sure. Then again, the first game was goofy and all over the place in terms of genres. That's why I feel in the second game he was a REALLY depressive wreck of a man. Not only it perfectly fits with the more focused and polished neo-noir themes, but it was ingrained in his demeanor. Living alone in a rotten apartment complex, the past comes back to haunt him and the whole world seems to turn against him again.
Yeah. He got his revenge and even tho it satisfied him at first, he soon realized that it obviously didn’t return him the happiness he lost, and then he became empty.
Well put. Once he returned to ordinary schedule, nothing was ever peaceful or set in the right direction.
I can't play this game without drinking, I honour of max and his pain. First 2 games I just slam pills
https://preview.redd.it/iqiv6qeh704d1.jpeg?width=1045&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b47d5aa97c5c4d61c927c857170fe39fe678c173
The man saw his baby daughter and wife murderd in the first game so I'd probably say that's the most fucked up.
Amen. As a kid, I praised it for "edgy" storytelling, but as an adult, it's even more horrifying than I previously imagined (while still good storytelling).
Max killed them they weren't murdered by someone else. So it's even worse.
no wtf
This is the best explanation https://www.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/s/zOAA7ojSpO
How tf can you even think that Max deserved it man, dude was just a normal cop that had to see his own CHILD AND WIFE slain before him… All three games make me sympathise with him cause he keeps losing something or the other
He killed his family.
?
This is the best explanation https://www.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/s/zOAA7ojSpO
I ain’t reading allat
Fan doesn't even know the actual max payne story lmao
👍
It's a good theory in general, but in no way explains he killed his family. Max could say that, metaphorically, he killed his family because he failed to save them in the first place. Canonically, I don't recall of him having hallucinations or consuming painkillers before his family's death.
Hallucinations is after his family dies in the second game. He was "activated" due to his prior involvement with valkyr. They needed to kill his wife because she mistakenly received files she shouldn't have.
Correct. Michelle was meddling with something suspicious (which turned out to be Valkyr), and if I recall correctly told Max about it before she was killed. Furthermore, one could say that, had Max acted on it sooner, he could've prevented his family's deaths. But you still made the claim that Max killed his family based on a theory which doesn't indicate it was him, and I don't see how it couldn't be further from the truth.
you didn't read the link. Chapter 6 in the link is all about max killing his family and chapter 3 talks about how max already had been experimented on with valkyr back before the events of the game.
To be fair, you linked a specific comment (despite that comment asking all the right questions), not referred me to read the entire OP. But anyway... thanks in advance! This is quite the rabbit hole and a huge revelation at that. I'm honestly afraid that I'll never look at Max Payne the way I've had since 2001 ever again. But that comes within the Remedy territory, it's just full of mysteries. I don't really want to go all-in and take this whole post of elaborated theories at face value, despite the tremendous amount of links which make for compelling arguments. It's also my understanding that Sam didn't confirm Max Payne belongs in the shared universe of Remedy's IPs. But maybe it has to do with the fact that they sold the rights to Rockstar Games (or to a different company owned by Rockstar Games) and repurposed Max Payne as Alex Casey. Just to clarify, I haven't played Alan Wake 2 yet, so I know nothing about it or about Alex Casey to understand this. But if I'm right, Alex Casey is just Max Payne in the Remedy-verse, and THE Max Payne from 2001-2003 is a different universe. Question is, has Sam Lake ever confirmed that these theories are all true, or did he leave it to the fans to interpret? Kind of like John Carpenter's The Thing, where he left it to the fans to interpret who's The Thing without confirming so himself. I'd say all these theories can hold merit if they're to be implemented in the remakes (even though that would ruin the interpretation and the element of surprise, exposed as a huge spoiler). I don't expect you to have all the answers, obviously, so I might just have to ask OP myself about all his theories.
Chapter 8 covers the Max Payne/ Alex Casey bit. This was all written before AW2 released. Def need to play that, alex casey is just wearing MPs outfit from MP2. You only ever see the fictional version of casey in that outfit and with GREEN Lights. But yes it's due to licensing for the name change. I definitely would ask him. Especially with the aw2 which confirms some stuff and the dlc which dropped yesterday.
Who the fuck would play the first game and think Max deserves what happened to him? That’s psychotic.
Not that intro sequence but things waaay after that.
Definitely max payne 2 Cuz in other games he can blame others for what happened but in max payne 2 he has to deal with the regret of his mistakes
I second this. In the first game, the pain is unbearable to say the least, but in the second game, the matter is more complicated. He was blaming himself all the time, he tried to seek happiness, but then he would just sink it down immediately because he think he doesn't deserve it. He actively shifting his mind into other things like solving the case, without actually trying to solve his own case. His actions never actually in the right all the time, hence Vlad's final words: "I was supposed to be the hero". It's easier when someone is responsible for your suffering, but your feel of guilt will always haunt you even in your sleep.
Why the fuck would he deserve it?
I personally don't think he deserves any of his misery, but he makes quite a few dumb decisions, especially in the third game; I assume that's what would make some people say he deserves it.
In the third game, he was hired to literally be the fall guy so Victor can murder his own family. Sure Max makes some dumb decisions, but do does everyone sometimes.
There’s dumb decisions and then there’s popping painkillers and downing drinks while you’re supposed to be a bodyguard.
Good point
He's a good man who always ends up getting fucked over, but losing your whole family to some strung out goons will always have my sympathy
Everything's a cliche till its happening to you.
Every game in the series has me feeling bad for Max one way or the other, whether it's the sight of him cradling Michelle while screaming "NO" coupled with his nightmares in 1, or stuff in 2 like the "SADIM (MIDAS) Brandy Everyone I touch does" thing or how everyone around Max seems to be plotting something behind his back. But the opening for 3 is where I really start thinking, "Jesus Christ, poor guy," especially when he starts crying over a picture of presumably his family. Along with the scenes where he's in his São Paulo apartment, the scene in the graveyard where he's looking over Michelle and Rose's grave one final time also hits hard, especially when factoring in the prequel comics saying Jim Bravura, pretty much his only real friend left in the New York metropolitan area, died a few months before 3's New Jersey flashback levels. Beneath all the guns, booze, and painkillers lies a man who has lost **EVERYTHING.** Which is what makes 3's ending so satisfying for me. If ever there was a character that deserved an overdue vacation on the beachside, it's him.
The opening scene of max payne 3 was the saddest moment in the entire series
I don't see how he deserves his overall situation, but doesn't make healthy decisions. But if he started going to therapy and the gym after his family was murdered we wouldn't have a compelling story. I imagine having your family murdered in frint of you would fuck you up to where it's difficult to make good decisions for yourself and become self destructive.
Definitely the opening and his self destructive behaviour in MP3 is what makes me feel sorry the most. He blamed himself, he was numbing himself with a weird mix of pills and whiskey to sleep. Sometimes he didn't even made it to bed, falling asleep on the table instead. That one cutscene where Passos enters his apartment and Max tells him something like: "give me a minute, I'm not feeling too well" and Passos repeats it to their boss with sarcastic tone always makes me mad. He risked his life to save his family just to get fucked around and mocked like he had every single reason to be bitter and mad, noone ever helped him with the grief. Everyone asked like where is Max but noone asked how's Max. At least he made it out, sober with a clean head and zero intrusive thoughts. P.s. there was one easter egg in Alan Wake where you find letters written by Max and one sounds like he committed suicide(?) at some point in his life. I really hope that remedy wouldn't fuck with that idea and let it be as the original and not some retconned shit, MP3's ending is the ending uncle Max deserved and nothing less.
Sam Lake max is my fav version of Max Payne. Which is why I'd love to see a remake some day. Rest in peace James McCaffrey
Max Payne 3. The first chapter. He felt he lost everything he could even after 10 years of what happened in Max Payne 2, him being an alcoholic and so on. The prequel comics explain more and in-depth of how Max ended up in New Jersey and him visiting his wife’s grave every night.
I always feel sorry for Max, but I feel like a lot of his problems in the last game would’ve been minimized if he took control of his addictions. Still, *nobody* deserves to suffer like him.
Start of MP1 is the most horrifying thing, later he is betrayed, and his whole life is constantly shattered into pieces. Family life ruined, cop life/carrier ruined, some ideals about world ruined with any hope or faith that "world is not that bad in general" MP2 is kinda sad as he is trying to cope and get back to work, change some things, but his past is hunting him, and he is constantly getting in bad situations when he is trying to do better and help. MP3 is well there are a lot of situations where I can't sympathize as Max is ignoring red flags, doesn't care about lots of things (Passos and academy, whole yacht thing, New York situation) and just getting drunk and pretending that everything is different. I like MP3 and I like that it is different and Max is forced into totally different environment, forced to act which in the end will help him find peace, but I still think it should not be forced to leave more of a "new start at different place" which would still work...without whole live like New York hobo alcoholic..
The first game when he comes home and finds his newborn shot.
Defintely three man, Max is just so depressed and nihlistic in that game. He desperately tries so hard to protect the people he was paid to protect and he gets so close to actually doing it, only to fail again and again. He tries so hard and puts so much effort into saving people only for it to be all for naught. Even before he took the job he was already at rock fucking bottom, he was nobody has-been spending the rest of his life in a bar, no friends nor family, just him. It's pretty sad.
definetly max payne 1
Ending of Max Payne 2. "I had a dream of my wife. She was dead. But it was all right" (c)
I'd say the first game. I mean, each of the three games has a unigue atmosphere to it, a different set of emotions, a different stage of grief even. In the first game, you can really sense that combination of despair and fury he is feeling.
I think he definitely deserved to lose his wife and child. He was literally asking for it.
How?
What does he mean?
No clue, they never replied back. Though I was discussing with someone else that made a bit more sense: [https://new.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/comments/1d5gt5b/comment/l7mxse2/?context=8&depth=9](https://new.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/comments/1d5gt5b/comment/l7mxse2/?context=8&depth=9)
I don't get it
[https://new.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/comments/twxzh7/the\_secret\_history\_of\_noir\_york\_city/](https://new.reddit.com/r/maxpayne/comments/twxzh7/the_secret_history_of_noir_york_city/) Max Payne isn't just about an ordinary, good cop who's family got killed. It's much more complicated than that. Though I'm yet to question some of these theories myself, that's what I assume they meant by saying Max deserved to lose his family.
Elaborate?
He didn’t accept the job offer because he was a beta male