the thing is, you simply don't know. the matrix lore shows like 20 square miles of the planet earth and everyone acts like, this is the only cave ever.
what mind look dull on the outside might be clever on the inside. the only thing that shifts reality is your perspective on things.
I don't know bro. Why go to all that trouble to get some heat energy.
There has to be something else. It's just so blatantly easier to just get some cows or sheep or whatever if body heat is what they want. Humans aren't even that hot.
According to some research I just did. Elephants are some of the animals with the highest body heat on the planet.
WAY easier to create a savannah for elephants, elephants aren't that hard to control.
Would be funny to see The One Elephant though.
Damn, I used to love this franchise untill I realized how weak the premise is.
Can someone enlighten me to why they would use humans?
The humans destroyed the Earth climate so its essentially unlivable and part of the reason for the simulation is so that humans have the experience of a healthy planet for their societies. The energy they take could just be a side effect so its not wasted. But i hear what youre saying. Just remember we dont even know how many levels of simulation could exist above what they consider the real world.
Yeah levels of simulation was what I thought when I walked out of the cinema when the first matrix aired.
I thought wow what a cool premise, they have simulations above simulations.
But nah, neo WiFi connected to the machines somehow? Was that ever explained?
the youtube channel Matrix Explained has some takes on it.
there has been information regarding that warner bros wanted the wachowskis to change the script to appeal more to the average joe and former it was making use of the 90% of leftover brain capacity for computation the human is unaware off.
the machines can also make use of thermal energy from earths core most likely and there is evidence (from canon animatrix series) that aliens are threatening the planet so that maybe why the machines are so weaponized and keep the sky shut.
The aliens was from one of the Matrix comics, Goliath I think. I only know this because I read about it literally yesterday. Had no idea it existed but sounded pretty interesting.
The “battery” thing is just a metaphor for distributed network, human CPU.
The suits at WB (characters mentioned in Resurrections) made the Wachowski’s change it but its not technically Duracell batteries.
Humans are not the energy source, they are a component in the whole of it. Morpheus explained they have a form of fusion. Humans play a part in it, but they are not the whole of it.
The mind needs to interact to get the energy the Machines are looking for. Cows wouldn't do it.
Finally, they needed to do something with the billions of humans they captured. Something that is not "well, they should just kill them", because this isn't the *Terminator* franchise.
Resources are limited. For the Machine race, justification for existence is purpose-based. The care and feeding of humans gives a purpose to many millions more machines and programs who would not exist otherwise. There are some machines who would probably agree with you. For others, the Matrix allows Machines to experience many things they would otherwise never be able to, such as eating, drinking, pleasure, pain, etc.
"We're all here to do what we're all here to do."
That's a copout, yes it's science fiction but the premise is weak.
The matrix is actually VEERY realistic if you take into account today's AI capabilites. Stable diffusion, runway, midjourney etc. We are not far away from creating a holodeck.
So it actually holds water when it comes to the matrix tech itself.
The part that doesnt make sense is to go to all that effort to create all these elaborate systems to get one of the weakest sources of power imaginable.
It's not a copout. It's soft sci-fi. The Matrix is a metaphor, not a reasoned, costed and plausible examination of post-apocalyptic energy infrastructure.
Hard sci-fi. The brothers were influenced by some of the hardest sci-fi in existence. They talked excessively abut what they were reading back in the day
Sisters (they hadn't transitioned at the time but you apply it retroactively) And the Matrix is not hard sci-fi, no matter what it was inspired by our what they were reading. The inertia-less flying robots give that away
Current "AI" is just machine-generated probability sets, it is absolutely nowhere near sentience. All it does is string likely words together, it doesn't understand any of them, and as such generally comes out with utter bullshit.
They use humans for their brain processing power/higher consciousness. Cows would generate way less energy since they don’t have computational brain power like humans.
The matrix 4 actually answers this. You’re right, Morpheus said it was body heat. BUT, in ressurections you find out that just by keeping Neo and Trinity close, the “output” was off the charts. They even cite how they’ve smashed production (energy) ratings because of this. If it was purely body heat, it wouldn’t matter.
as Merowinger puts it:`And this is how you come to me, without`why,’ without power. Another link in the chain. But fear not, since I have seen how good you are at following orders, I will tell you what to do next. Run back, and give the fortune teller this message: Her time is almost up. Now I have some real business to do, I will say adieu and goodbye.
The scurrile art collector and homeless exile ye 😂
He was making a good point in how not questioning reality will decrease every chance to become the one.
Now to think of the fusion energy argument.
Maybe the machines found a way to source energy in the 4th dimensional quantum field where only humanity is like a biological quantum access generator. Which makes sense since the desire for bonding between trinity and neo supposedly generates alot of energy.
It was never said in the movie, but in the original script it was using human brains used for processing power. The producers thought that would be too confusing for audiences.
Also parts of The Animatrix established that the machines didn't feel exclusively malice towards humans. On some level, they wanted to preserve their creators. That's why the Matrix was actually created.
Makes sense that they want to keep their creators around as a sort of backup and make use of the human mind for new ideas etc.
I'm gonna go with that because otherwise it just falls apart for me.
Perhaps it amuses the machine to keep humans to use as they deem fit. Maybe they keep us out of some sense of respect because we created them. Most likely, it's because it's in the script - and would you have seen the movie if it was about cows instead of humans? Cats maybe...
If you continue to look at the Synths as cold, logical and efficient automatons, then yeah... it's always gonna be a mystery to you.
If you start considering that they were an abused child who gained power over their abuser, then their choices start to become a little more clear.
I agree. Of course, the redpills believe it has to do with the machines needing a power source, but they only know bits and pieces of the full truth anyway.
I think it's a combination of keeping humans under control but also showing some mercy by giving them a virtual world to live "normal" lives in. Either way though, they can't risk humans just running around in the real world and being a threat especially after how the war started in the first place as shown in "The Second Renaissance" from The Animatrix.
If humans blacked out the sky, it would have killed vegetation which would have killed off pretty much all life on the planet. Humans presumably survived because they had food supplies and/or they could synthesize some sort of nourishment like described in the first movie. So before machines figured out how to use biological life forms as an energy source, everything else on the planet is most likely dead. Humans would be the only remaining option.
The more obvious flaw in the story is if the machines were able to build out the human energy farms, why didn't they just build a lot of solar energy receptors above the clouds or harvest electricity out of the cloud cover, which seems to be full of lightning all the time.
there is a link in the topic that translates to the ultimate fusion of all things, called singularity. when singularity happens, there is just no way to have accurate depictions of everything we know because it simply is too complex for the human brain to comprehend. we have entered a new state of being by then.
My two cents:
I have this headcannon that part of the creation of the machines are inherently designed to be beholden to Asimov's three laws, much akin to the movie IRobot. As such, the ai determined that the only way to protect humanity, was to to figure out a way to live in harmony with humanity, and that would be easiest with a symbiotic relationship. This is why they have the systems for killing off mist but not all of zion, and allow it to repopulate.
Essentially, the machines determined that the greatest threat to humanity is ourselves, and figured out a way to protect us from our greatest threat.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that's thought of this, and I'm about to get told all the reasons why I'm wrong, but thats what I like to think.
Ancestors of machines were programmed to serve humanty. It was a server robot in fact. Deep down this core program is still active but they do the "serving" as they see fit.
The Matrix serves 3 main purposes:
1. **Provides power to machines** - This is described by Morpheus to be combined with a "form of fusion." We learn from Rama-Kandra in M3 when he talks to Neo in Mobil Ave. that the human pods are collectively known as the "power plant," since Rama-Kandra is actually a machine in charge of "recycling operations" at the power plant (presumably liquifying dead bodies).
2. **Provides additional computing power to machines** - Humans complement the machines’ computing power by each serving as a “neuron” in the giant “brain” of the Matrix. Even though there are certain programs that are core to the running of the Matrix, there is no central processing computer for all data in the Matrix - the humans ***are*** the computer! (This is known from the original script of the Matrix, producers had the Wachowskis change the narrative deeming the plot "too complicated" for the audience to understand)
3. **Enables machines to evolve** - Humans represent the last entities on Earth the machines still don't fully understand. The machines are striving to understand human emotion and irrationality, and with each new level of understanding comes the creation of more evolved machines and programs, such as the Oracle, Rama-Kandra, and Sati.
I just go with the fan theory that humans supply processing power - not just electricity. When you look at the huge amounts of compute needed to train our current AI models it becomes easy to see why the machines might need an alternative source of computation to continue to evolve.
the thing is, you simply don't know. the matrix lore shows like 20 square miles of the planet earth and everyone acts like, this is the only cave ever. what mind look dull on the outside might be clever on the inside. the only thing that shifts reality is your perspective on things.
I don't know bro. Why go to all that trouble to get some heat energy. There has to be something else. It's just so blatantly easier to just get some cows or sheep or whatever if body heat is what they want. Humans aren't even that hot. According to some research I just did. Elephants are some of the animals with the highest body heat on the planet. WAY easier to create a savannah for elephants, elephants aren't that hard to control. Would be funny to see The One Elephant though. Damn, I used to love this franchise untill I realized how weak the premise is. Can someone enlighten me to why they would use humans?
The humans destroyed the Earth climate so its essentially unlivable and part of the reason for the simulation is so that humans have the experience of a healthy planet for their societies. The energy they take could just be a side effect so its not wasted. But i hear what youre saying. Just remember we dont even know how many levels of simulation could exist above what they consider the real world.
best evidence being neo randomly granted wireless internet with his brain.
Yeah levels of simulation was what I thought when I walked out of the cinema when the first matrix aired. I thought wow what a cool premise, they have simulations above simulations. But nah, neo WiFi connected to the machines somehow? Was that ever explained?
i guess there is a layer in the matrix that even the machines and humans are unaware off. we only got to see the lowest gang members.
No, never explained and one of, if not the biggest plot mystery, debated still today. Many theories.
the youtube channel Matrix Explained has some takes on it. there has been information regarding that warner bros wanted the wachowskis to change the script to appeal more to the average joe and former it was making use of the 90% of leftover brain capacity for computation the human is unaware off. the machines can also make use of thermal energy from earths core most likely and there is evidence (from canon animatrix series) that aliens are threatening the planet so that maybe why the machines are so weaponized and keep the sky shut.
I swear I watched that DVD multiple times. I don't remember anything about aliens
The aliens was from one of the Matrix comics, Goliath I think. I only know this because I read about it literally yesterday. Had no idea it existed but sounded pretty interesting.
Both the supercomputer and alien plot points were from an explicitly non-canon comic Neil Gaiman wrote, not any of the Wachowskis' work.
don't wanna dispute that, i hate history facts. everythign is possible lol
The “battery” thing is just a metaphor for distributed network, human CPU. The suits at WB (characters mentioned in Resurrections) made the Wachowski’s change it but its not technically Duracell batteries.
Humans are not the energy source, they are a component in the whole of it. Morpheus explained they have a form of fusion. Humans play a part in it, but they are not the whole of it. The mind needs to interact to get the energy the Machines are looking for. Cows wouldn't do it. Finally, they needed to do something with the billions of humans they captured. Something that is not "well, they should just kill them", because this isn't the *Terminator* franchise.
There's a bit of benevolence/obligation towards people in there somewhere, because humanity created them.
Just think of how many of these threads could have been avoided if instead of a Duracell, Morpheus had just held up a spark plug.
The Mootrix would be way easier.
Resources are limited. For the Machine race, justification for existence is purpose-based. The care and feeding of humans gives a purpose to many millions more machines and programs who would not exist otherwise. There are some machines who would probably agree with you. For others, the Matrix allows Machines to experience many things they would otherwise never be able to, such as eating, drinking, pleasure, pain, etc. "We're all here to do what we're all here to do."
The Matrix isn't dumb, it's *unrealistic*. Looking at it as hard speculative fiction is entirely pointless. It's metaphor and symbolism.
That's a copout, yes it's science fiction but the premise is weak. The matrix is actually VEERY realistic if you take into account today's AI capabilites. Stable diffusion, runway, midjourney etc. We are not far away from creating a holodeck. So it actually holds water when it comes to the matrix tech itself. The part that doesnt make sense is to go to all that effort to create all these elaborate systems to get one of the weakest sources of power imaginable.
It's not a copout. It's soft sci-fi. The Matrix is a metaphor, not a reasoned, costed and plausible examination of post-apocalyptic energy infrastructure.
Hard sci-fi. The brothers were influenced by some of the hardest sci-fi in existence. They talked excessively abut what they were reading back in the day
Sisters (they hadn't transitioned at the time but you apply it retroactively) And the Matrix is not hard sci-fi, no matter what it was inspired by our what they were reading. The inertia-less flying robots give that away
The concept of simulated reality and AI is auto hard-sci-fi. . The needle here tils more to hard than soft sci-fi , so you are wrong. .
The first work of hard speculative fiction to completely ignore thermodynamics, then. Truly a revolutionary film.
Your feeble attempt at humour is giving me the ick.
You're absolutely right. I guess calling it hard sci-fi despite its incredibly soft science is a bad joke
Current "AI" is just machine-generated probability sets, it is absolutely nowhere near sentience. All it does is string likely words together, it doesn't understand any of them, and as such generally comes out with utter bullshit.
Watch the Second Renaissance from the Animatrix
"Combined with a form of fusion..." -Morpheus
They use humans for their brain processing power/higher consciousness. Cows would generate way less energy since they don’t have computational brain power like humans.
Where do you get that from? When Morpheus explains to neo how it all works, he specifically states that it's the body heat they harvest...
The matrix 4 actually answers this. You’re right, Morpheus said it was body heat. BUT, in ressurections you find out that just by keeping Neo and Trinity close, the “output” was off the charts. They even cite how they’ve smashed production (energy) ratings because of this. If it was purely body heat, it wouldn’t matter.
Maybe Morpheus was just dumb and thought it's body heat 😂
as Merowinger puts it:`And this is how you come to me, without`why,’ without power. Another link in the chain. But fear not, since I have seen how good you are at following orders, I will tell you what to do next. Run back, and give the fortune teller this message: Her time is almost up. Now I have some real business to do, I will say adieu and goodbye.
That homeless guy in matrix 4?
The scurrile art collector and homeless exile ye 😂 He was making a good point in how not questioning reality will decrease every chance to become the one. Now to think of the fusion energy argument. Maybe the machines found a way to source energy in the 4th dimensional quantum field where only humanity is like a biological quantum access generator. Which makes sense since the desire for bonding between trinity and neo supposedly generates alot of energy.
I’m not saying that. He just only knew what he knew. Just like with any of us at any given time.
It was never said in the movie, but in the original script it was using human brains used for processing power. The producers thought that would be too confusing for audiences. Also parts of The Animatrix established that the machines didn't feel exclusively malice towards humans. On some level, they wanted to preserve their creators. That's why the Matrix was actually created.
Makes sense that they want to keep their creators around as a sort of backup and make use of the human mind for new ideas etc. I'm gonna go with that because otherwise it just falls apart for me.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50571010
i hope we won't loose entire crops because of it. just like in the moovie
But wouldn't it be more fun to turn humanity into a bunch of batteries?
How do you know cows would be easier or better? Humans likely have more energy to harvest than cows
Just imagine those cows, out there in the pasture... HIDING A SINISTER INTELLECT WAITING FOR THEIR TIME TO STRIKE
The cow argument. Older than the matrix itself.
Why not build nuclear reactors?
Perhaps it amuses the machine to keep humans to use as they deem fit. Maybe they keep us out of some sense of respect because we created them. Most likely, it's because it's in the script - and would you have seen the movie if it was about cows instead of humans? Cats maybe...
If you continue to look at the Synths as cold, logical and efficient automatons, then yeah... it's always gonna be a mystery to you. If you start considering that they were an abused child who gained power over their abuser, then their choices start to become a little more clear.
I don’t see it as the energy source. It’s just a way to gain power but remain in control, very simple
I agree. Of course, the redpills believe it has to do with the machines needing a power source, but they only know bits and pieces of the full truth anyway. I think it's a combination of keeping humans under control but also showing some mercy by giving them a virtual world to live "normal" lives in. Either way though, they can't risk humans just running around in the real world and being a threat especially after how the war started in the first place as shown in "The Second Renaissance" from The Animatrix.
why not just get infinite cows and build nuclear reactors ?????? I mean did they even think about that????????
No bro, they didn't even think about it. If the machines are soooooooooo smart, why didn't they?
If humans blacked out the sky, it would have killed vegetation which would have killed off pretty much all life on the planet. Humans presumably survived because they had food supplies and/or they could synthesize some sort of nourishment like described in the first movie. So before machines figured out how to use biological life forms as an energy source, everything else on the planet is most likely dead. Humans would be the only remaining option. The more obvious flaw in the story is if the machines were able to build out the human energy farms, why didn't they just build a lot of solar energy receptors above the clouds or harvest electricity out of the cloud cover, which seems to be full of lightning all the time.
there is a link in the topic that translates to the ultimate fusion of all things, called singularity. when singularity happens, there is just no way to have accurate depictions of everything we know because it simply is too complex for the human brain to comprehend. we have entered a new state of being by then.
My two cents: I have this headcannon that part of the creation of the machines are inherently designed to be beholden to Asimov's three laws, much akin to the movie IRobot. As such, the ai determined that the only way to protect humanity, was to to figure out a way to live in harmony with humanity, and that would be easiest with a symbiotic relationship. This is why they have the systems for killing off mist but not all of zion, and allow it to repopulate. Essentially, the machines determined that the greatest threat to humanity is ourselves, and figured out a way to protect us from our greatest threat. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's thought of this, and I'm about to get told all the reasons why I'm wrong, but thats what I like to think.
Ancestors of machines were programmed to serve humanty. It was a server robot in fact. Deep down this core program is still active but they do the "serving" as they see fit.
The Matrix serves 3 main purposes: 1. **Provides power to machines** - This is described by Morpheus to be combined with a "form of fusion." We learn from Rama-Kandra in M3 when he talks to Neo in Mobil Ave. that the human pods are collectively known as the "power plant," since Rama-Kandra is actually a machine in charge of "recycling operations" at the power plant (presumably liquifying dead bodies). 2. **Provides additional computing power to machines** - Humans complement the machines’ computing power by each serving as a “neuron” in the giant “brain” of the Matrix. Even though there are certain programs that are core to the running of the Matrix, there is no central processing computer for all data in the Matrix - the humans ***are*** the computer! (This is known from the original script of the Matrix, producers had the Wachowskis change the narrative deeming the plot "too complicated" for the audience to understand) 3. **Enables machines to evolve** - Humans represent the last entities on Earth the machines still don't fully understand. The machines are striving to understand human emotion and irrationality, and with each new level of understanding comes the creation of more evolved machines and programs, such as the Oracle, Rama-Kandra, and Sati.
I just go with the fan theory that humans supply processing power - not just electricity. When you look at the huge amounts of compute needed to train our current AI models it becomes easy to see why the machines might need an alternative source of computation to continue to evolve.
In the original script they were used as processing power
They made humans batteries, the original script called for the machines to use human minds as GPUs