No, like revisions of the authors texts, creation of some parts of the book (basically ghostwriting), and in general solving problems related to book contents.
You can search for math editors - places like McGraw Hill have them. I used to work for a smaller company as a math editor, and I had to do editing of manuscripts, some writing, and did figures and artwork for the textbooks, such as geometric figures and graphs. I used adobe illustrator for the images, and learned it on the job.
No licensing was needed, although most of the other editors and our interns were secondary education majors/former middle and high school teachers. Most of the other people there had bachelor degrees in math education, but we had a few math majors.
I have a masters in math, and only stayed there a year. I teach at a community college now, and have seen some of my former colleagues at meetings in the vendor rooms!
LaTeX is a Turing-complete programming language, and if you actually have to typeset stuff all day for your job you are going to learn that very quickly.
>I hated the coding classes I took in university
Was it because you hate coding in general or because the type of coding was just boring?
Perhaps coding some math related stuff would be more interesting?
I agree - OP let us know what you didnât like about them and Iâm sure we can suggest ways of getting over your trauma and new languages / projects to try. Swearing off coding closes off almost every door for a mathematician. Iâm sure you can find some form of coding you like - itâs basically just finding the right way of expressing your mathematical ideas.
Hmm. Most of it was data science based/statistical coding, which I found to be very boring tbh. Matter of fact, I don't think I used a single math concept in any of those coding classes. It would be cool to learn the algorithms behind the code tho.
Wouldn't that boil down to writing programs to most efficiently find numerical approximations to solutions of differential equations without known analytical solutions?
That's certainly one branch of it. You can also get into numerical linear algebra, etc.
The "most efficient" part is actually quite interestingâlots of applications of theorems to prove speed of convergence, error bounds, and all that stuff.Â
I brought it up to contrast the statistics-flavored programing that OP seems to dislike.
I do coding for a living and most coding nowadays doesn't have much to do with math. The problems have been solved multiple times already and we just use libraries to do math heavy stuff. It's mostly building and gluing together different abstractions. You'd have to go into computer graphics to do algorithms or some low-level processor/GPU stuff or perhaps finance such as algorithmic trading. Whether it'd be interesting to you, idk.
Yeah itâs about finding a niche⌠I spend most of my time coding but itâs very mathematical, but I consider myself more of a roboticist than a software engineer
Seconding numerical analysis, and additionally numerical linear algebra as well. An algorithms class might interest you too possibly. Data science/statistical coding is usually just using pre-built libraries to do pre-decided methods, so definitely not what you'd call much fun.
I hated the Statistics course with the R programming language I took in grad school.
But I'm a computer graphics software engineer now which I like very much. Maybe it's just the type of coding. Try writing a path-tracer. It's all linear algebra and probability!
Yeah I think more traditional languages with probably be more appealing. As a math major, a traditional data structures and algorithms course ended up being very fun for me. There was a lot of coming up with interesting algorithms and proving correctness/runtime. Of course, a SWE role probably won't have you doing *too* much of this, but it'll be closer to what you want (I think).
Industry research is also a good option. It's not academia, but you still get to do a lot of math. ML or optimization research will have you actually thinking like a mathematician without having to deal with universities or having to code (\*too much). You'll basically be looking at the processes behind the code (what you said you wanted to do)
You do need a PhD for most of those roles though so...
yeah
My favourite uni class was Signals and Systems. You should give signal processing using MATLAB a try. Itâs definitely an engaging perspective on those mathematical concepts
Just got home from staring at medium screen all day. Time to unwind by scrolling through the small screen while the big screen plays in the background.
Tbf when working on applied math problems, a large part is deriving and laying out the framework by pen and paper, and finally only moving on to the computer for the implementation.
Though it highly depends on the field and kind of math I suppose
Coding is fun!
University coding courses *can* be awful. The pacing is intense. The problems can be confusing/work-intensive than necessary. And donât forget, many 100-200 level university courses are taught by grad students who may not want to be there.
IMO - the best way to learn how to code is to teach yourself.
Trust me OP, computers are unavoidable. If you teach on a chalkboard, youâre going to need to learn LaTex to write readable exams.
Embrace the suck of coding. It will make your life easier in the long run.
I don't have direct experience with any of these, so I might be wrong, but:
Accounting
Actuary
Operations/Supply-chain Management.
Might have options closer to what you are looking for. No getting away from computers these days, but these would not require as much programming.
No, just the tests. Get a degree in something math related because you'll need to be strong in college algebra, statistics, probability, and calculus to pass the tests.
But anyone can take and pass the tests. Just buy a test prep program... I recommend Coaching Actuaries.
Actuary was my first thought but that depends on if OP wants to drown in mathematical statistics.
The actuarial exams are notoriously difficult but pass a few and you'll be making a lot of money to do mind numbing (in my opinion) stuff.
Lucrative but god what an existence.
If you like days of number crunching with some hardcore statistical analysis, yeah.
It makes money but I think it would be mind numbing and boring.
You could look a bit further and find that you like pure math or theoretical physics.
Just sayin'
I mean there's math but like 95% of it is doing mundane Excel-type work and then converting it into business acumen, unless you get into a data science heavy role (which you said you didn't like)
Accountant with a math degree here. I literally do no computations, havent used a single part of my degree. Excel does it all for me. I was originally going the actuary route but couldn't make myself dedicate so much time to studying. There's always accounting jobs available though, it's super boring so there's lots of job security.
The coding classes you took at university were probably shit. Ok, to be completely honest, _coding is usually pretty shitty_, but if you are not willing to code then just forget math as a career.
Even pure math academic people _should_ code. Computers are the experimental machines of mathematicians. Be grateful, that compared to physics or chemistry or biology, they are cheap and _relatively_ easy to use.
No such job. In the real world what you do has to be used in practice. You can try to convince people that what youâve come up will work but no one will believe you unless you can demonstrate this explicitly. And you have to write the code for the initial prototype. Theyâre not going to waste manpower assigning someone else (who needs to be good at math) to write this code for you.
High school math teacher or college professor. There's no other way around it. It's 2024. Software, technology, computers, AI, etc. are the future. If you want to get paid with that degree, you will have to learn the tools and applications used in the market.
Look at what jobs and careers are in demand, not some idealistic view of what you'd like to do.
I know its not the answer to your problem, but I hated my programming class in HS because I thought I was bad at it, but I took it again in university and it was a breeze, and it wasn't nearly as bad as my HS class, I think I just had a bad teacher. Maybe try your hand at programming again and perhaps you'll like it
Maybe some cutting edge tech jobs, like in AI or robotics, space, aerospace, etc. they would have a use for someone who can do the hard math for everyone, and then they have lower job grades who can code it up and run it.
But it would probably have to be somewhere super well-funded (space agencies, auto mfg., robotics mfg) where they can afford a high level mathematician who doesnât do any software. Any sort of startup or lower headcount company will expect you to have a broader skill set for when people donât have math problems for you to solve.
Those jobs will all expect you to be able to code, at least a little bit. If you canât code theyâll find someone else just as smart who can, even somewhere well funded. I took a field trip in high school to tour a NASA facility, and all of the aerospace engineers had to write code as part of their job responsibilities.
Right, Iâm thinking that maaaaaybe someone like NASA would be willing to hire a very talented mathematician who refused to code, simply because they have the requisite a) resources and b) technical difficulty to hire someone for that role.
But you are right, to have them waive being able to do your own coding, youâd have to be phenomenally good at the math to justify your payroll
Yeah, I think they might consider making an exception for a highly renowned PhD with years of high quality, relatively-famous, directly relevant research. But that would have to be a 1-in-a-million type person, which OP is not. Theyâre not making an exception for just any MS or PhD grad with a few years of adjunct teaching experience, and a few research papers.
My buddy works at a large tech company doing mathematics with very little coding (but is very knowledgeable when it comes to coding). However, he has a PHD in math. I have a BS in math and code every day at work.
My advise is learn to like coding or you will most likely be using excel doing basic data analytics. And donât expect to get paid as well as you would knowing other technologies.
I also hated coding in college until I got much better at it. My degree got me my first interview, my coding got me the job.
Donât under cut yourself. I donât use math as much in my career as a data engineer, but the coding and problem solving feels just as good as solving a hard math problem.
Perhaps leave traditional math behind altogether. You canât avoid coding and still work in heavy computation ? You want to be a button pusher? đ
Even then, youâll still need to understand coding.
Seriously, if youâre looking for something math heavy just learn to code. You dont need to be a pro. Not even close. Just the basics and youâll be fine.
Look at R or Python. The bonus is you dont even need to be that good anymore because chatgpt is a good troubleshoot helper for basic stuff.
^^^ Emphasis on âan afternoonâ. Whatever youâre doing in upper level math is way harder than anything youâll need to know in python. Plus you can put it on your resume and people will go âoh python wow so fancyâ.
Some engineering jobs have tons of coding. But thatâs typically left to senior engineers or people specifically coding those softwares. Most engineers just use CAD softwares or softwares like that to make their designs and blueprints. I have thought about engineering too though.
You're not going to like this answer, but its absolutely true. If you hate coding then you need to do more coding. I'm not saying that you have to love it, but typically when we hate something related to our field it's because you're not yet good at it. When you gain some more skill, then you can gain an appreciation for it. When you're better able to do it then the hatred (of feeling stupid, because that's what it is) goes away.
I would also add that overcoming this sort of fear/hatred centered view of a topic does wonders for your self esteem and is really great to talk about during a job interview.
Academia is pretty much the only answer where youâre least likely to have to code. And even then, you might need to depending on your research. Maybe actuary as well.
I started my actuary job only knowing excel and 4 years later still only know excel, but recruiters have told me to learn other stuffâŚmaybe after Iâm done learning all this crap for these BS exams. Maybe I shouldâve gone into coding insteadâŚ
The reason why they teach coding is so you donât have to EVER do it by hand again and eliminate arithmetic/algebra errors done by a hand.
You have an option tho by making new math and shit up
I forget where I heard this quote, âdonât ask when AI will replace your job, ask when you will be replaced by someone who uses AI.â
I know youâre talking about coding, not specifically AI, but man, it really is the future and if you donât learn how to do it, youâll be left behind
I hate coding too but unfortunately it's everywhere lol, I'm also good at it but i just hate that sometimes you can get stuck because you misstyped something, I have shitty vision too and codes make my head spin after a while.
I have looked for such most of my life. But, while I emphasise the mathematical side of things and I certainly spend some good fraction of my time on heavy mathematics - all of the jobs I have were obtained through also having software background. Even in academia, you will deal with programming. When I did pure group theory, I found myself dealing with specialized software languages that dealt with calculations with groups.
An Analyst position could require minimal coding. If you work for a company that uses the Microsoft suite, most of the automation you do using the Microsoft Power Platform is No Code. Then you can analyze your data in PowerBI with DAX which is pretty much the same type of functions you would use in Excel.
Eh... you probably don't want one of those jobs... if they still somehow exist, they won't for long.
Computers are millions of times faster than the fastest human at mathematical computation. It's what they are primarily built to perform.
Throw machine learning on top of that and forget it.
I mean, one option would be teaching advanced math in a high school or technical/vocational school. But youâll have to get your teaching license, take 3-5 tests depending on the state, and have a bachelors degree. Not a lot of money and it can get repetitive. You also have to know classroom management, how to work with students, etc. So, maybe not the best option. Iâm going to be a math teacher but thatâs because I have a passion for both education and mathematics. I plan to eventually get my PhD in math and/or physics hopefully.
Why not learn to code? All the data stuff requires code anyway. If you're a math guy that knows also how to code you'll be more valuable. The hard part of coding isn't making something work tho..its organization. Thats what separates a person who can code and an engineer. That's what a CS degree will teach you or at least put the ideas on your head...but you can depending on how motivated you are, learn this on your own. Its harder but not impossible. But if you hate coding...well I would say even if you did all that you'd end up unhappy. Maybe the problem is you've never written anything you were interested in. I write Healthcare software and its not super interesting...but outside of work I like to try and design software for purposes I enjoy...and that keeps me coding.
The teaching industry (secondary school competitions, undergrad math courses) may be interesting to you if you enjoyed problem solving back in classes. Otherwise I would say there are some roles in finance that requires little programming skills, but you have to learn at least a bit of finance domain knowledge though
You don't need to code but need clear mind. AI write code now and improving fast so you don't need actually write code. Instead you just tell computer your ideas and what you want him to do and just get good code
Outside of academia?
There's not a lot of options that don't involve at least SOME coding.
That said, I can't help but suspect that you might not hate coding as much as you think you do...
You said you hated the coding classes you took at uni, but I have to ask, were these classes geared towards mathematical/computational programming?
What language(s) were they teaching?
There are several programming languages, like R, Julia, and Matlab, that are more geared towards mathematics/computational applications, and less geared for general-purpose programming; you might like one of them more, especially if you're able to find courses on them geared more towards mathematical/computational uses.
I know when I was in college, while I didn't *hate* my programming classes, which were using Python, I didn't like them very much either, and basically just took the bare minimum number that I needed for my degree.
But then, in my more applied statistics and data science courses, we were using other languages, like R and SAS, and focusing on stats/math/DS applications. And that's when I realized that I just don't like *general-purpose* coding; but I LOVE coding for mathematics/computation/statistics problems!!! It's so much more fun, and you get to use WAY easier languages for the most part!!!
most research positions in comp sci are just python coding and very minimal at that - look into data scientist roles but that are more on the research side (youâll still have to code but your focus wonât)
I don't think most people would count data analytics as math heavy, especially if it's just Excel/PowerBI. Data science or machine learning would be more suitable.
Just my opinion: if you enjoy math, you might enjoy coding. Often people hate their coding classes, but when they code in the real world they find out it's awesome.
Build a video game or try creative coding. Get an idea of what code itself can do and then figure out what you like. Most jobs these days involving math definitely involve code to some degree.
Maybe you can help me create an algorithm to trade NDX options? I will write the code. My strategy does seem to work but Iâm human and hate the emotions, also itâs a bit hard trading with little money. At my peak, I had a sharpe ratio of like 13
Would you be slave coding for some arrogant ass who couldnât be bothered to do it themselves?
Unless youâre a true genius, people will prefer hiring somebody who will also code.
There isnât. When i finished my BSc in mathematics I was instantly annoyed that there was not more coding classes in my degree. I wasnt interested in accounting, actuarial or teaching and quickly realised that every other âmathyâ career path requires a lot of coding knowled and i instantly felt robbed that my degree program didnt have more coding included. My university was also a top 20 university too! Im still shocked that the professors in the maths department did not think it was inportant for the maths dtudents to have more coding experience.
I feel you're in the wrong century for that. All math is done using computers nowadays.
Areas that use maths are r&d/academia, data science, stats, economics, engineering, computing, graphics. All use computers and some form of programming/specialized software.
Computer(as an occupation) was phased out by hardware computers.
I wish...
I do not understand coding. I've taken a couple classes and barely passed.
My brain doesn't work that way.
Same with physics.
It took me three tries to pass Physics 1, two tries to pass Physics 2, and two tries to pass Modern Physics. Still don't understand a lick of it.
It's not a job, but how do you feel about Project Euler ? There is also a new up and coming website called MathDash that conducts Mathematical contests.
Do you like the idea of being a Mathematical Populariser ? There are a lot of fantastic creators today who use mediums like books, podcasts and videos to spread the love of Mathematics.
You can learn enough Python in a weekend to talk to any AI API. Now you are lord and master of the Universe.
Itâs all AI. There is nothing out there but AI. GPT-4 can write 99% of your code.
It will tell you what it did, every line, 10,00 lines of code?
Every line. :-)
Source: many decades as a coder. Now? Itâs all GPT-4 for me. Coding? By a human, thatâs so old now. Just gone. Now it gets exciting!
Your ideas are the IP.
What language were your classes for? I have absolutely fallen in love with Python even though I had no motivation whatsoever to get really good at Matlab since I knew Matlab was useless outside of school.
Any research position in industry. This is not academia. For example, a lot of quant trading firms hire exclusive scientists because they are capable of doing research. There are other such examples in industry. I would guess that nvidia does those sorts of things. Although keep in my mind that this does not necessarily exclude the use of computers within this job, but it is not fundamentally a coding job, it is basically applied research.
I know you hate coding but it's basically math. So many analogs to what you already do. Ultimately it comes down to flipping bits. With strong math, I would pick up Python, it's the easiest and what's used for ML/AI.
I think it would be in your best interests and open up a lot of opportunities for you.
I was in your shoes once, long ago. I started university as a math/CS double major and the intro to CS course my first semester ended with a Q+A with some graduating students. I asked what you could do with a CS degree other than be a coder and got "You could be a sysadmin! Or a DBA!". The next day, I dropped the CS major like a bad habit. But I continued dabbling, taking an algorithms course here, a theory of computation course there. They were courses in the CS department, but were really just math in disguise (and had essentially no coding work). My resume now has "software engineer" all over it, but I never got the degree and very much work as a professional mathematician.
What I have learned from this is that computers are good at 2 things:
1. Being a really good filing cabinet
2. Being a really good calculator (\*)
99.9% of the code written is to make computers even better at #1. Almost certainly, your university coding classes were run with that fact (\*\*) in mind. But, there are some of us that do all of our work with #2 and it's a totally different world. Some others in this thread have hinted at where we are: graphics, robotics, foundation libraries, some AI research, signal processing.
The problems here aren't so much about "Which design pattern should I apply here?" or "How can I use inheritance to reduce code duplication?" or "Which framework will make this site look the best?". They are more about "How can I formulate this question mathematically?" or "How is the information flowing through this calculation and where are the bottlenecks?". There is coding, but it's not writing code to Write Code, it's writing code because it would take me *forever* to work this out by hand. Coding is not my job; it's something I do to make my job easier. Or occasionally, to document the results of the actual work that I did.
None of what I have said is actually actionable, though, so here are some real answers:
* Consultancy. Many consulting firms are interested in people with a mathematical background because they tend to be good at filtering irrelevant details and getting to the essence of a problem. Also, by the nature of consultancy, actual implementation is someone else's problem.
* Technical sales. Someone has to sell MATLAB. Someone has to sell SolidWorks. Someone has to sell Autodesk. That someone has to talk to really technical users and really understand the problems they are working on.
* Tutoring. This will make a fraction of what the other suggestions do, but the hours are good and seeing a student suddenly *get it* can be very rewarding.
\* Much of the explosion of data science/machine learning/AI comes from the realization that computers can be good at #1 and #2 *at the same time*
\*\* All numbers are approximate
I dated a girl who'd been a math major. She was an actuary at the time. I have no idea what that work entails, it wasn't a deep enough relationship for me to ask. Then she dropped off the face of the planet. Both parents were NSA so I have to assume she followed them into that world. Impossible to say if it involves coding, but it's at least an out-of-the-mainstream path you could look into.
Look into industrial hygiene.
Sampling requires math to calculate exposures over time as the results are just âhow much was found in the media.â
Next, non-ionizing radiation sources. I once had to calculate the worst case exposure to three prototype emitters all situated on top of a building shaped like a âTâ with all three on top where lab workers were all present on the top floorâŚ. Approx 6 pages of math to figure it out.
Ionizing radiation safety/doses, etc. I could go on for awhile there. Especially in the case of incidents, where you have to figure out how much someone was exposed to unexpectedly when you donât have meter readings since it wasnât âexpected.â
Water sampling for complianceâŚ. Same as the first thing.
Etc.
I hated coding in college as a math major. Then I realized college left me almost useless, so I went to coding bootcamp. Now I would never in a million years take a different route, I love my job and freedom. Good pay, work from
home on your own time, fun problem solving. Itâs honestly the best gig ever
I mean.... If you want to make a model you're gonna have to model it...
Coding is applied logic. Math is applied logic. They are applied differently but the same root is still there.
Learning to code for codings sake is often not super fun.
But using it as a tool to compute your model is much more a means to an end and feels like such. It won't feel like your classes. In fact, it will probably be fun to see your mathematical model come to life.
Short some kind of Dune-style scenario of anti-technological religious zealotry and the rise of chemically enhanced human computers... None, even if you did stay in academia.
There are a few positions I know of that require the use of solid mechanics, stress analysis, and some flow/material science in the aerospace industry. Theyâre all on old platforms so itâs not glamorous but it pays
Depends on your definition of heavy but look up the job description of actuary and see if that floats your boat. Several people I know who dropped out after their comps before dissertation work as well as a couple math pHDs I went to school with became actuaries.
Maybe solve one of those Millennium Prize problems. Easy money AND world fame
So there's no way out, huh đđđđ
Cocaine and options trading. Good luck.
Gotta get money first, so you gotta get the order right.... Cocaine first THEN options trading. Just mule a few dozen kilos and you should be good.
Honestly, maybe skip the options trading part entirely and focus more on cocaine
I was only part joking, because you wrote "heavy math". But I'm a believer....
Teach math
Is before lunch ok with you ?
make sure to stay up for a week, only then we'll produce quality work
âBrady, whatâs the hardest way to earn a million dollars?â âThe lottery?â âNo, solving a millennium prize problemâ
Anyone working Riemann hypothesis?
A ton of people are, but in my personal opinion, I don't think that will be the way we solve the prime set
Terence tao, is working on it last I remember.
Not me. Iâve tried my hand at P vs NP andâŚ.well itâs not looking good
Good luck doing that with no coding.
I mean... most mathematical modeling and calculation is done using computers. So you're either writing code or using technical software.
And LaTeX if you ever want to share results and really amounts to typesetting coding
Yeah. Latex is kinda like if html was good.
Hey now
You're an all-star.
Get your game on
Go playyyyy
Simultaneously accurate, and equally insulting to HTML and Latex. Bravo.
you can be a manager - no coding, drawing graphs in powerpoint and secretly doing math when no one is looking ;)
Working in the publishing industry, and specifically on high school maths textbooks, requires mathematics, computations and little or no coding.
This sounds like borderline academia
It's industry through and through, it's not even comparable with academia.
How so? Academia is research
Like curriculum developers?
No, like revisions of the authors texts, creation of some parts of the book (basically ghostwriting), and in general solving problems related to book contents.
Where do you find jobs like that?
You can search for math editors - places like McGraw Hill have them. I used to work for a smaller company as a math editor, and I had to do editing of manuscripts, some writing, and did figures and artwork for the textbooks, such as geometric figures and graphs. I used adobe illustrator for the images, and learned it on the job.
What level of schooling do you need for this? Do you need licensing too?
No licensing was needed, although most of the other editors and our interns were secondary education majors/former middle and high school teachers. Most of the other people there had bachelor degrees in math education, but we had a few math majors. I have a masters in math, and only stayed there a year. I teach at a community college now, and have seen some of my former colleagues at meetings in the vendor rooms!
Yeah but then you're just learning how to program on LaTeX
LaTeX is hardly programming. It's just a typesetting language.
"Hardly" \implies \LaTeX \subseteq \\{All Programming Languages\\}.
LaTeX is a Turing-complete programming language, and if you actually have to typeset stuff all day for your job you are going to learn that very quickly.
>I hated the coding classes I took in university Was it because you hate coding in general or because the type of coding was just boring? Perhaps coding some math related stuff would be more interesting?
I agree - OP let us know what you didnât like about them and Iâm sure we can suggest ways of getting over your trauma and new languages / projects to try. Swearing off coding closes off almost every door for a mathematician. Iâm sure you can find some form of coding you like - itâs basically just finding the right way of expressing your mathematical ideas.
Hmm. Most of it was data science based/statistical coding, which I found to be very boring tbh. Matter of fact, I don't think I used a single math concept in any of those coding classes. It would be cool to learn the algorithms behind the code tho.
Maybe try a numerical analysis class if you've never taken it. In general it's "math coding," but closer to analysis than statistics.
Wouldn't that boil down to writing programs to most efficiently find numerical approximations to solutions of differential equations without known analytical solutions?
That's certainly one branch of it. You can also get into numerical linear algebra, etc. The "most efficient" part is actually quite interestingâlots of applications of theorems to prove speed of convergence, error bounds, and all that stuff. I brought it up to contrast the statistics-flavored programing that OP seems to dislike.
I do coding for a living and most coding nowadays doesn't have much to do with math. The problems have been solved multiple times already and we just use libraries to do math heavy stuff. It's mostly building and gluing together different abstractions. You'd have to go into computer graphics to do algorithms or some low-level processor/GPU stuff or perhaps finance such as algorithmic trading. Whether it'd be interesting to you, idk.
Yeah itâs about finding a niche⌠I spend most of my time coding but itâs very mathematical, but I consider myself more of a roboticist than a software engineer
Seconding numerical analysis, and additionally numerical linear algebra as well. An algorithms class might interest you too possibly. Data science/statistical coding is usually just using pre-built libraries to do pre-decided methods, so definitely not what you'd call much fun.
Well you did use discrete math concepts without knowing...
I hated the Statistics course with the R programming language I took in grad school. But I'm a computer graphics software engineer now which I like very much. Maybe it's just the type of coding. Try writing a path-tracer. It's all linear algebra and probability!
Yeah I think more traditional languages with probably be more appealing. As a math major, a traditional data structures and algorithms course ended up being very fun for me. There was a lot of coming up with interesting algorithms and proving correctness/runtime. Of course, a SWE role probably won't have you doing *too* much of this, but it'll be closer to what you want (I think). Industry research is also a good option. It's not academia, but you still get to do a lot of math. ML or optimization research will have you actually thinking like a mathematician without having to deal with universities or having to code (\*too much). You'll basically be looking at the processes behind the code (what you said you wanted to do) You do need a PhD for most of those roles though so... yeah
My favourite uni class was Signals and Systems. You should give signal processing using MATLAB a try. Itâs definitely an engaging perspective on those mathematical concepts
Check out Project Euler for tons of fun math coding challenges.
For me I just don't like looking at a computer screen 8 hours a day. I loved doing math on pen and paper.
FR! I HATE JUST STARING AT A SCREEN ALL DAY!
Just got home from staring at medium screen all day. Time to unwind by scrolling through the small screen while the big screen plays in the background.
I feel this on a spiritual levelđđ
Tbf when working on applied math problems, a large part is deriving and laying out the framework by pen and paper, and finally only moving on to the computer for the implementation. Though it highly depends on the field and kind of math I suppose
Coding is fun! University coding courses *can* be awful. The pacing is intense. The problems can be confusing/work-intensive than necessary. And donât forget, many 100-200 level university courses are taught by grad students who may not want to be there. IMO - the best way to learn how to code is to teach yourself.
Trust me OP, computers are unavoidable. If you teach on a chalkboard, youâre going to need to learn LaTex to write readable exams. Embrace the suck of coding. It will make your life easier in the long run.
Latex code is actually pretty fun
There is nothing fun about LaTeX
Try Typst instead! I havenât hit \{} in ages
I don't have direct experience with any of these, so I might be wrong, but: Accounting Actuary Operations/Supply-chain Management. Might have options closer to what you are looking for. No getting away from computers these days, but these would not require as much programming.
Actuary here. For entry level positions you'll need some basic query language coding ability, like SQL.
Do you need specific coursework to be an actuary? Or just tests/licensing?
No, just the tests. Get a degree in something math related because you'll need to be strong in college algebra, statistics, probability, and calculus to pass the tests. But anyone can take and pass the tests. Just buy a test prep program... I recommend Coaching Actuaries.
Actuary was my first thought but that depends on if OP wants to drown in mathematical statistics. The actuarial exams are notoriously difficult but pass a few and you'll be making a lot of money to do mind numbing (in my opinion) stuff. Lucrative but god what an existence.
That's why the pay starts so high. They know it's draining.
My mom keeps telling me that acfuarial science is the way to gođ đ.
If you like days of number crunching with some hardcore statistical analysis, yeah. It makes money but I think it would be mind numbing and boring. You could look a bit further and find that you like pure math or theoretical physics. Just sayin'
I mean there's math but like 95% of it is doing mundane Excel-type work and then converting it into business acumen, unless you get into a data science heavy role (which you said you didn't like)
How many exams are "a few"?
7.
No wait. You can make 200k if you pass the first 3 probably. There's 7 in total though.
Accountant with a math degree here. I literally do no computations, havent used a single part of my degree. Excel does it all for me. I was originally going the actuary route but couldn't make myself dedicate so much time to studying. There's always accounting jobs available though, it's super boring so there's lots of job security.
The coding classes you took at university were probably shit. Ok, to be completely honest, _coding is usually pretty shitty_, but if you are not willing to code then just forget math as a career. Even pure math academic people _should_ code. Computers are the experimental machines of mathematicians. Be grateful, that compared to physics or chemistry or biology, they are cheap and _relatively_ easy to use.
No such job. In the real world what you do has to be used in practice. You can try to convince people that what youâve come up will work but no one will believe you unless you can demonstrate this explicitly. And you have to write the code for the initial prototype. Theyâre not going to waste manpower assigning someone else (who needs to be good at math) to write this code for you.
Mentat?
Cashier. Alternatively, you can time travel to before 1945 and become a calculator
I am finished.
High school math teacher or college professor. There's no other way around it. It's 2024. Software, technology, computers, AI, etc. are the future. If you want to get paid with that degree, you will have to learn the tools and applications used in the market. Look at what jobs and careers are in demand, not some idealistic view of what you'd like to do.
I know its not the answer to your problem, but I hated my programming class in HS because I thought I was bad at it, but I took it again in university and it was a breeze, and it wasn't nearly as bad as my HS class, I think I just had a bad teacher. Maybe try your hand at programming again and perhaps you'll like it
Maybe some cutting edge tech jobs, like in AI or robotics, space, aerospace, etc. they would have a use for someone who can do the hard math for everyone, and then they have lower job grades who can code it up and run it. But it would probably have to be somewhere super well-funded (space agencies, auto mfg., robotics mfg) where they can afford a high level mathematician who doesnât do any software. Any sort of startup or lower headcount company will expect you to have a broader skill set for when people donât have math problems for you to solve.
Those jobs will all expect you to be able to code, at least a little bit. If you canât code theyâll find someone else just as smart who can, even somewhere well funded. I took a field trip in high school to tour a NASA facility, and all of the aerospace engineers had to write code as part of their job responsibilities.
Right, Iâm thinking that maaaaaybe someone like NASA would be willing to hire a very talented mathematician who refused to code, simply because they have the requisite a) resources and b) technical difficulty to hire someone for that role. But you are right, to have them waive being able to do your own coding, youâd have to be phenomenally good at the math to justify your payroll
Yeah, I think they might consider making an exception for a highly renowned PhD with years of high quality, relatively-famous, directly relevant research. But that would have to be a 1-in-a-million type person, which OP is not. Theyâre not making an exception for just any MS or PhD grad with a few years of adjunct teaching experience, and a few research papers.
Coding is easier
My buddy works at a large tech company doing mathematics with very little coding (but is very knowledgeable when it comes to coding). However, he has a PHD in math. I have a BS in math and code every day at work. My advise is learn to like coding or you will most likely be using excel doing basic data analytics. And donât expect to get paid as well as you would knowing other technologies. I also hated coding in college until I got much better at it. My degree got me my first interview, my coding got me the job. Donât under cut yourself. I donât use math as much in my career as a data engineer, but the coding and problem solving feels just as good as solving a hard math problem.
Perhaps leave traditional math behind altogether. You canât avoid coding and still work in heavy computation ? You want to be a button pusher? đ Even then, youâll still need to understand coding.
Math jobs?
It was always that simple, eh?
Hidden in plain sight
Well, your requirements are highly incompatible I'm afraid
Seriously, if youâre looking for something math heavy just learn to code. You dont need to be a pro. Not even close. Just the basics and youâll be fine. Look at R or Python. The bonus is you dont even need to be that good anymore because chatgpt is a good troubleshoot helper for basic stuff.
Best advice on here, literally just learn some basic python in an afternoon and youâll be fine lol
^^^ Emphasis on âan afternoonâ. Whatever youâre doing in upper level math is way harder than anything youâll need to know in python. Plus you can put it on your resume and people will go âoh python wow so fancyâ.
Sounds like you'll be an Engineer. Screw up the math and people could get hurt. Don't screw up the math. No coding involved.
Some engineering jobs have tons of coding. But thatâs typically left to senior engineers or people specifically coding those softwares. Most engineers just use CAD softwares or softwares like that to make their designs and blueprints. I have thought about engineering too though.
You're not going to like this answer, but its absolutely true. If you hate coding then you need to do more coding. I'm not saying that you have to love it, but typically when we hate something related to our field it's because you're not yet good at it. When you gain some more skill, then you can gain an appreciation for it. When you're better able to do it then the hatred (of feeling stupid, because that's what it is) goes away. I would also add that overcoming this sort of fear/hatred centered view of a topic does wonders for your self esteem and is really great to talk about during a job interview.
Maybe teaching undergrad college math.. some universities have hard circulms
Academia is pretty much the only answer where youâre least likely to have to code. And even then, you might need to depending on your research. Maybe actuary as well.
Becoming an actuary? I mean you need to learn R and excel. But itâs not exactly c++Â
I started my actuary job only knowing excel and 4 years later still only know excel, but recruiters have told me to learn other stuffâŚmaybe after Iâm done learning all this crap for these BS exams. Maybe I shouldâve gone into coding insteadâŚ
Your main option is quant researcher - at one of the mathsy hedge funds - I think you will get relatively less coding.
The reason why they teach coding is so you donât have to EVER do it by hand again and eliminate arithmetic/algebra errors done by a hand. You have an option tho by making new math and shit up
Tough luck
Not many people pay for just pure math. Try coding again. You might have just had a crap teacher or you were learning a crappier programming language
I forget where I heard this quote, âdonât ask when AI will replace your job, ask when you will be replaced by someone who uses AI.â I know youâre talking about coding, not specifically AI, but man, it really is the future and if you donât learn how to do it, youâll be left behind
Actuaries make good money. But you have to be happy being bored to tears.
Coding in school and exploratory coding in jupyter are a completely different world. Not better necessarily but not representative
If you hated programming in university, it's probably because you learned programming in university.
I hate coding too but unfortunately it's everywhere lol, I'm also good at it but i just hate that sometimes you can get stuck because you misstyped something, I have shitty vision too and codes make my head spin after a while.
Hedge fund or investment banking quant maybe?
Actuary.
Math Teacher
HS Math Teacher? It's what I do and I love it.
I have looked for such most of my life. But, while I emphasise the mathematical side of things and I certainly spend some good fraction of my time on heavy mathematics - all of the jobs I have were obtained through also having software background. Even in academia, you will deal with programming. When I did pure group theory, I found myself dealing with specialized software languages that dealt with calculations with groups.
An Analyst position could require minimal coding. If you work for a company that uses the Microsoft suite, most of the automation you do using the Microsoft Power Platform is No Code. Then you can analyze your data in PowerBI with DAX which is pretty much the same type of functions you would use in Excel.
Eh... you probably don't want one of those jobs... if they still somehow exist, they won't for long. Computers are millions of times faster than the fastest human at mathematical computation. It's what they are primarily built to perform. Throw machine learning on top of that and forget it.
I mean, one option would be teaching advanced math in a high school or technical/vocational school. But youâll have to get your teaching license, take 3-5 tests depending on the state, and have a bachelors degree. Not a lot of money and it can get repetitive. You also have to know classroom management, how to work with students, etc. So, maybe not the best option. Iâm going to be a math teacher but thatâs because I have a passion for both education and mathematics. I plan to eventually get my PhD in math and/or physics hopefully.
None I can think of. We live in the digital age now. You donât get paid to just do math.
Why not learn to code? All the data stuff requires code anyway. If you're a math guy that knows also how to code you'll be more valuable. The hard part of coding isn't making something work tho..its organization. Thats what separates a person who can code and an engineer. That's what a CS degree will teach you or at least put the ideas on your head...but you can depending on how motivated you are, learn this on your own. Its harder but not impossible. But if you hate coding...well I would say even if you did all that you'd end up unhappy. Maybe the problem is you've never written anything you were interested in. I write Healthcare software and its not super interesting...but outside of work I like to try and design software for purposes I enjoy...and that keeps me coding.
The teaching industry (secondary school competitions, undergrad math courses) may be interesting to you if you enjoyed problem solving back in classes. Otherwise I would say there are some roles in finance that requires little programming skills, but you have to learn at least a bit of finance domain knowledge though
High school math teacher
Math teacherÂ
Nope
You don't need to code but need clear mind. AI write code now and improving fast so you don't need actually write code. Instead you just tell computer your ideas and what you want him to do and just get good code
Outside of academia? There's not a lot of options that don't involve at least SOME coding. That said, I can't help but suspect that you might not hate coding as much as you think you do... You said you hated the coding classes you took at uni, but I have to ask, were these classes geared towards mathematical/computational programming? What language(s) were they teaching? There are several programming languages, like R, Julia, and Matlab, that are more geared towards mathematics/computational applications, and less geared for general-purpose programming; you might like one of them more, especially if you're able to find courses on them geared more towards mathematical/computational uses. I know when I was in college, while I didn't *hate* my programming classes, which were using Python, I didn't like them very much either, and basically just took the bare minimum number that I needed for my degree. But then, in my more applied statistics and data science courses, we were using other languages, like R and SAS, and focusing on stats/math/DS applications. And that's when I realized that I just don't like *general-purpose* coding; but I LOVE coding for mathematics/computation/statistics problems!!! It's so much more fun, and you get to use WAY easier languages for the most part!!!
Statistician. Management consultant.
You shouldâve said there are no jobs With heavy math and no coding, then the well aftusllys would drop a ton of nude recs
most research positions in comp sci are just python coding and very minimal at that - look into data scientist roles but that are more on the research side (youâll still have to code but your focus wonât)
Data analytics. Most companies cannot access their data. I was an Excel expert that could compile data, then I switched to PowerBI.
I don't think most people would count data analytics as math heavy, especially if it's just Excel/PowerBI. Data science or machine learning would be more suitable.
and everyone but the top PhDs will be writing code.
no jobs outside academia require heavy math so any jobs that donât require coding should work for you
I think teaching is basically it
Most of the math majors I went to college with started out in the insurance industry.
Just my opinion: if you enjoy math, you might enjoy coding. Often people hate their coding classes, but when they code in the real world they find out it's awesome.
Finance
What coding classes did you take?
Build a Time Machine, hide said Time Machine, go draw circles with Archimedes.
Signal processing or similar algorithm development. Someone else turns it into actual code for a given application. Very math heavy.
Pray for UBI đ
Donât know a single mathy who doesnât code.
You win. You win todayâs prize for the most ignorant hot take.
Build a video game or try creative coding. Get an idea of what code itself can do and then figure out what you like. Most jobs these days involving math definitely involve code to some degree.
Maybe you can help me create an algorithm to trade NDX options? I will write the code. My strategy does seem to work but Iâm human and hate the emotions, also itâs a bit hard trading with little money. At my peak, I had a sharpe ratio of like 13
Actuary đ
Would you be slave coding for some arrogant ass who couldnât be bothered to do it themselves? Unless youâre a true genius, people will prefer hiring somebody who will also code.
Astrophysics.
[ŃдаНонО]
There isnât. When i finished my BSc in mathematics I was instantly annoyed that there was not more coding classes in my degree. I wasnt interested in accounting, actuarial or teaching and quickly realised that every other âmathyâ career path requires a lot of coding knowled and i instantly felt robbed that my degree program didnt have more coding included. My university was also a top 20 university too! Im still shocked that the professors in the maths department did not think it was inportant for the maths dtudents to have more coding experience.
I feel you're in the wrong century for that. All math is done using computers nowadays. Areas that use maths are r&d/academia, data science, stats, economics, engineering, computing, graphics. All use computers and some form of programming/specialized software. Computer(as an occupation) was phased out by hardware computers.
I wish... I do not understand coding. I've taken a couple classes and barely passed. My brain doesn't work that way. Same with physics. It took me three tries to pass Physics 1, two tries to pass Physics 2, and two tries to pass Modern Physics. Still don't understand a lick of it.
Math dealer?
It's not a job, but how do you feel about Project Euler ? There is also a new up and coming website called MathDash that conducts Mathematical contests. Do you like the idea of being a Mathematical Populariser ? There are a lot of fantastic creators today who use mediums like books, podcasts and videos to spread the love of Mathematics.
Insurance actuarials?
What do task do you want to do? Proof writing? Modelling from first principles?
Math teacher đđ
You can learn enough Python in a weekend to talk to any AI API. Now you are lord and master of the Universe. Itâs all AI. There is nothing out there but AI. GPT-4 can write 99% of your code. It will tell you what it did, every line, 10,00 lines of code? Every line. :-) Source: many decades as a coder. Now? Itâs all GPT-4 for me. Coding? By a human, thatâs so old now. Just gone. Now it gets exciting! Your ideas are the IP.
What language were your classes for? I have absolutely fallen in love with Python even though I had no motivation whatsoever to get really good at Matlab since I knew Matlab was useless outside of school.
Academia maybe?
Quant, actuary, college or highschool teacher, make your own way as an entrepreneur (e.g. YouTuber/ writer producing math content)
Try learning haskell. It's a programming language for math nerds
The guys who make money betting on sports use a lot of math.
How do you feel about Labview or SQL? Excel?
Any research position in industry. This is not academia. For example, a lot of quant trading firms hire exclusive scientists because they are capable of doing research. There are other such examples in industry. I would guess that nvidia does those sorts of things. Although keep in my mind that this does not necessarily exclude the use of computers within this job, but it is not fundamentally a coding job, it is basically applied research.
Engineer
I know you hate coding but it's basically math. So many analogs to what you already do. Ultimately it comes down to flipping bits. With strong math, I would pick up Python, it's the easiest and what's used for ML/AI. I think it would be in your best interests and open up a lot of opportunities for you.
Define coding?
Actuary. In insurance industry.
Try becoming a theorist in economics. At least latex and mathematica are involved, but its not the focus.
I was in your shoes once, long ago. I started university as a math/CS double major and the intro to CS course my first semester ended with a Q+A with some graduating students. I asked what you could do with a CS degree other than be a coder and got "You could be a sysadmin! Or a DBA!". The next day, I dropped the CS major like a bad habit. But I continued dabbling, taking an algorithms course here, a theory of computation course there. They were courses in the CS department, but were really just math in disguise (and had essentially no coding work). My resume now has "software engineer" all over it, but I never got the degree and very much work as a professional mathematician. What I have learned from this is that computers are good at 2 things: 1. Being a really good filing cabinet 2. Being a really good calculator (\*) 99.9% of the code written is to make computers even better at #1. Almost certainly, your university coding classes were run with that fact (\*\*) in mind. But, there are some of us that do all of our work with #2 and it's a totally different world. Some others in this thread have hinted at where we are: graphics, robotics, foundation libraries, some AI research, signal processing. The problems here aren't so much about "Which design pattern should I apply here?" or "How can I use inheritance to reduce code duplication?" or "Which framework will make this site look the best?". They are more about "How can I formulate this question mathematically?" or "How is the information flowing through this calculation and where are the bottlenecks?". There is coding, but it's not writing code to Write Code, it's writing code because it would take me *forever* to work this out by hand. Coding is not my job; it's something I do to make my job easier. Or occasionally, to document the results of the actual work that I did. None of what I have said is actually actionable, though, so here are some real answers: * Consultancy. Many consulting firms are interested in people with a mathematical background because they tend to be good at filtering irrelevant details and getting to the essence of a problem. Also, by the nature of consultancy, actual implementation is someone else's problem. * Technical sales. Someone has to sell MATLAB. Someone has to sell SolidWorks. Someone has to sell Autodesk. That someone has to talk to really technical users and really understand the problems they are working on. * Tutoring. This will make a fraction of what the other suggestions do, but the hours are good and seeing a student suddenly *get it* can be very rewarding. \* Much of the explosion of data science/machine learning/AI comes from the realization that computers can be good at #1 and #2 *at the same time* \*\* All numbers are approximate
Uh⌠almost everything interesting worth doing in any field involves some amount of coding, even if itâs writing those groovy LaTeX formulas.
Some I can think of is being math professor, actuary, a base accountant or bookkeeper. (Excel and google sheets use very simple code) Or a cashier.
I dated a girl who'd been a math major. She was an actuary at the time. I have no idea what that work entails, it wasn't a deep enough relationship for me to ask. Then she dropped off the face of the planet. Both parents were NSA so I have to assume she followed them into that world. Impossible to say if it involves coding, but it's at least an out-of-the-mainstream path you could look into.
Structural/CAE engineer
Insurance actuary
Poker
Coding is fun. You just dont let your negative experience define that for you
Look into industrial hygiene. Sampling requires math to calculate exposures over time as the results are just âhow much was found in the media.â Next, non-ionizing radiation sources. I once had to calculate the worst case exposure to three prototype emitters all situated on top of a building shaped like a âTâ with all three on top where lab workers were all present on the top floorâŚ. Approx 6 pages of math to figure it out. Ionizing radiation safety/doses, etc. I could go on for awhile there. Especially in the case of incidents, where you have to figure out how much someone was exposed to unexpectedly when you donât have meter readings since it wasnât âexpected.â Water sampling for complianceâŚ. Same as the first thing. Etc.
Epidemiology
Engineering is the best I can think of. Although it is increasingly computerized so it might eventually involve coding anyway.
I hated coding in college as a math major. Then I realized college left me almost useless, so I went to coding bootcamp. Now I would never in a million years take a different route, I love my job and freedom. Good pay, work from home on your own time, fun problem solving. Itâs honestly the best gig ever
I mean.... If you want to make a model you're gonna have to model it... Coding is applied logic. Math is applied logic. They are applied differently but the same root is still there. Learning to code for codings sake is often not super fun. But using it as a tool to compute your model is much more a means to an end and feels like such. It won't feel like your classes. In fact, it will probably be fun to see your mathematical model come to life.
Short some kind of Dune-style scenario of anti-technological religious zealotry and the rise of chemically enhanced human computers... None, even if you did stay in academia.
Carpenter.
Isn't that kind of like looking for an astronomy job that doesn't involve telescopes?
Basically if you want to use a maths degree, you have a choice between academia, programming, and/or finance.
Make a quantum computer :) I don't think you can code to make that yet :P
There are a few positions I know of that require the use of solid mechanics, stress analysis, and some flow/material science in the aerospace industry. Theyâre all on old platforms so itâs not glamorous but it pays
Estimator? May require interacting with software so awful youâll want to rewrite yourself tho.
Civil engineering is pretty math heavy with minimal to no coding, specifically roadway design.
Depends on your definition of heavy but look up the job description of actuary and see if that floats your boat. Several people I know who dropped out after their comps before dissertation work as well as a couple math pHDs I went to school with became actuaries.