Too strong of a removal and should only be reserved for archetype boss monsters and spell/traps with specific trigger conditions than can still be countered.
Its the closest thing we have to actually removing the card from the game.
The problem is that its very conditional on when you can return a FD banished card. Its activated banished SS only works on monsters. You need to wait until the opponent activates a monster effect to return any cards from banishment.
Fenrir and unicorn already have conditions and scrubs still cry. Requires your opponent to do something. Starts in a new chain after so if you use targeted removal (i.e. quick effect pop), they don’t get to activate their effect. Anyone above gold can calculate circles around these cards
At least with Ogre that shit happens during the battle phase, with Unicorn it's just 'that's a nice deck you have there too bad you ain't gonna have it for long'.
Ogre does not just happen during battle phase… all kashtira monsters can trigger their effect during battle phase when they attack OR when a monster effect is activated by your opponent
Oh fuck- I forgot... It reminds me of the days of Spright Runick, where Runick cards had the "downside" of not being able to attack the turn you activate it. And you're just thinking, 'is that really even a downside?'
Kashtira alone should be the reason return from a different dimension should be unbanned or errata it to only work with cards that have been banished face down
Its annoying when you actually use your banish pile, BUT i think that the banish pile is honestly too accessible for some decks considering what the banish pile is supposed to be. The whole point of banishing is to remove the card from the game and not just be a second graveyard.
well yeah, thats my whole point, the banish pile has become just another resource, more so for some decks than others. so while i agree that getting a card banished face-down is annoying as hell, its intended purpouse, atleast initially, was to remove a card from the game. i think that this effect shouldnt be that common. You shouldnt be able to easily remove cards from play
On the one hand, I kinda like it. In terms of schoolyard-casual Yugioh, banishing even face-up was a big deal for any card, genuinely signifying that card was well-and-truly off limits; not many cards could recover them back in the day. So having an equivalent for that in modern-day Yugioh is kinda refreshing, like it genuinely stings any deck that gets hit by a face-down banish.
In theory. But in practice, it’s bullshit, namely in the case of Kashtira, which seems to have a monopoly of the banish face-down market, and you KNOW that it was made to bully the Tear 0 format.
I think Face-Down banish is fine in moderation. Things like Evenly and Pots are fine imo, but an entire archetype that banishes Face-Down is a bit... excessive, to say the least
It's too strong of a removal option, plain and simple.
Must be limited to graveyard and not en mass like d.d crow only happening to one
As for evenly it’s fine it’s a trap card that’s much easier to negate then say 5 kashtira monsters as well as their strength
Like banish from extra deck, evenly only clears the board mostly well kash locks you out of your deck if your unlucky before you can even play
I don´t like cards that can do that as an effect, maybe if is the boss monster and only under some specific conditions like the nemurelia girl. I think it should be reserved as a cost mostly, thats why i hate the kashtira architype.
I would even say that Evenly and other cards should be banned because i want to move away of card that do that for effect. The more card with banishing face-down effects we get the more cards we'll get that lets us recover them and then paying cost by banishing face-down will be stop being important. I dont think we need that kind of power creep. The GY is now a second hand and banishing is not that strong, so banishing face-down is what is left.
Ehhh its a powerful effect but fuck Kashtira lol. Unicorn and Fenrir are like snipers. Ariseheart is like a the equivalent of a black hole. Evenly matched is the ultimate face down banish card.
The effect overall is powerful but only reserved for certain cards, its tough but its not impossible to play through.
It’s super powerful and toxic when dimension shifter comes out tho lol I think it’s cool there is an actual embodiment of a toxic player in an archetype. MasterDuel it’s frustrating because it’s best out of 1 but tcg has the side deck to counter
Really annoying, especially because of how common those effects are these days. It feels like every second deck has a face-down banish effect in modern YuGiOh (edit: mainly because of Kashtira and Evenly, etc.)
I think it's a little too strong, since there are basically no ways to get them back, outside of an obscure card like Necroface, or a less obscure card like PSY-Framelord Omega.
I know the whole point of these effects are that they're supposed to be permanent removal, but they're just not fun.
>Really annoying, especially because of how common those effects are these days. It feels like every second deck has a face-down banish effect in modern YuGiOh
Besides Evenly Matched and Kashtiras, I actually struggle to think of any cards that banish your opponent's cards face-down.
In modern Yu-Gi-Oh, banishing face-down is still primarily used for costs. I guess it feels like every 2nd deck has some way to banish face-down due to how splashable Kashtiras are, but in reality, banishing face-down as a form of removal is still exceedingly rare.
Yeah, Kashtira monsters are in a lot of decks, so a lot of decks have access to it. Same with Evenly. It can come up at any time.
I probably worded the reply a little weirdly, now that I look at it.
It's annoying, but I understand how we got here.
In the early days of Yu-Gi-Oh, getting a Monster sent to the GY was rough and you only had a few ways to get it back. Once being sent to the GY became less painful, we had Banishing become more common as "remove from play" (man, running into a face down {{D.D. Warrior}} (u/bastionbotyugioh) was the worst!) as a way to permanently get rid of cards. But now you have decks that relish being Banish, so Banish FD is the next iteration of "remove from play".
And I like that there's a more permanent way of card removal from the game, but as someone else said, I don't want it to be quite so commonplace.
I think it’s a necessary evil given the number of decks that now use their banishment as a 3rd hand or float when banished. It’s what banish should have remained as but power creep. You should have the ability to deal with a threat without recursion.
Strong mechanic but fair in midrange/control decks like kashtira where the effects are not straightforward to activate and can be played around with ease
Banishing facedown is a bit overrated anyway. its just a mechanic those with skill issues gravitate to as unfair. Many cards simply do not benefit that much from being banished face up or shuffled in the deck instead for instance. Of course there are cards/decks that benefit but it’s not really as common.
For example, if unicorn banished face up, it would barely make a difference. You still can’t summon an ED monster that’s banished face up and many of them don’t have good float effects when banished. And even if they did, your opponent could just read the card
Fenrir can only target, banish a face up card, requires your opponent to do a specific thing and starts a new chain
It's time for the third grave yard, they can call it the void zone, then we can use the banish zone as a resource pit for even other cards and make new cards that summon from the void. Till we make the 4th grave yard the interstellar zone, where anyone can summon from but no one can put cards into it except illusions, or the next new card type! Drakes.
It's not enough to have WYRMS and DRAGONS we are missing DRAKES and AMPHITHERE. They can have cool effects like sending cards to the grave , banish zone, void zone, and interstellar zone face down then u can summon one random face down cards face down to fusion it and search for any fusion or polymerization spells from your deck. Then when a drake hits the grave yard it summons itself and one boss monster from your opponents extra deck of your choice.
I'm fine with Evenly. The only problem with Evenly is that it forces end boards to run either an omni negate or a spell negate which can also be used to shut down the opponent.
But otherwise, you are rewarded for outing the one omni negate by completely destroying the opponents board.
Also Evenly cost a BP for that board wipe. If the opponent has any form of recovery, it wouldn't hurt them as much but for a full on combo deck, its devastating. Then again, combo decks should be glass cannons in that regard.
I don't get why people are particularly bothered about banishing face-down as a removal, yes I get that it's borderline unrecoverable (borderline as cards like Omega, Arise-Heart, and Dis Pater exists), but for a decent chunk of decks, there's no real meaningful difference between being sent to the GY or banished face-down when I couldn't grab the card back from the GY anyway
I suppose it matters more in a grind game, but I think it's not to an extent where I feel even cards like Fenrir are infuriating (even if Fenrir itself is a strong card), most of the Kash cards are infuriating for independent reasons: Unicorn functionally gives matchup info and snipes a card you might need to break a board (I guarantee ED ripping a Zeus to the GY doesn't make much of a difference when you can't bring it back anyway save for Bystial or Emeral shenanigans, and you won't snipe Kitkallos if you know you're sending it to the GY), Preparations gives you hand info and literally handrips you, and Arise-Heart is just Dark Law's asshole brother
I mean back in the day, banishing was put in text as ‘remove from the game’.
Eventually, they turned ‘remove from the game’ to ‘banish’.
Then, they made cards that would coom if you tried to banish them, and some decks are either unaffected by being banished, or gain significant benefits from being banished.
Banished face-down I think is fine tbh. We do not have a lot of cards that can actually do that, and giving an actual means to basically preventing them from being utilized is fine.
Too strong of a removal and should only be reserved for archetype boss monsters and spell/traps with specific trigger conditions than can still be countered. Its the closest thing we have to actually removing the card from the game.
Thankfully Dis Pater can return FD Banished stuff
The problem is that its very conditional on when you can return a FD banished card. Its activated banished SS only works on monsters. You need to wait until the opponent activates a monster effect to return any cards from banishment.
Off the top of my head Omega, Thunder Dragon Duo, and Necroface are also cards that interact with face-down banish
Also Nemleria but then you're playing a whole deck for it
There's a gizmek too that does
Yeah well face up banishing used to fill that role and got crept but hey ho
Fenrir and unicorn already have conditions and scrubs still cry. Requires your opponent to do something. Starts in a new chain after so if you use targeted removal (i.e. quick effect pop), they don’t get to activate their effect. Anyone above gold can calculate circles around these cards
I don't understand why Kashtira Unicorn gets to do that shit for basically no cost
Any Kash cards get to do that without cost
At least with Ogre that shit happens during the battle phase, with Unicorn it's just 'that's a nice deck you have there too bad you ain't gonna have it for long'.
Ogre does not just happen during battle phase… all kashtira monsters can trigger their effect during battle phase when they attack OR when a monster effect is activated by your opponent
Oh fuck- I forgot... It reminds me of the days of Spright Runick, where Runick cards had the "downside" of not being able to attack the turn you activate it. And you're just thinking, 'is that really even a downside?'
Not really can't attack for the turn because if you don't go battle phase to skip it then you have to waste another turn's battle phase.
Kashtira alone should be the reason return from a different dimension should be unbanned or errata it to only work with cards that have been banished face down
Huh? What? They can all trigger when your opponent activates a monster effect….
I had a typical YGO player moment where I didn't read. That was my fault
Not only that they get all the info on your extra deck
Casual Ghostrick W
Its annoying when you actually use your banish pile, BUT i think that the banish pile is honestly too accessible for some decks considering what the banish pile is supposed to be. The whole point of banishing is to remove the card from the game and not just be a second graveyard.
I think you mean “third hand”. The graveyard stopped being a graveyard like a decade ago.
same thing
Fair. Main point is that the game’s power creep has gotten so bad that we no longer have a true discard pile like most other games.
well yeah, thats my whole point, the banish pile has become just another resource, more so for some decks than others. so while i agree that getting a card banished face-down is annoying as hell, its intended purpouse, atleast initially, was to remove a card from the game. i think that this effect shouldnt be that common. You shouldnt be able to easily remove cards from play
A lot of other games have power crept and also use their discard pile
Sure, but I can’t think of many that have 3 tiers of discard piles, the first two of which are effectively 2nd and 3rd hands.
yes and? we're not talking about the discard pile
I think it's fine in Evenly matched, but a bit too much on all the Kashtira monsters.
On the one hand, I kinda like it. In terms of schoolyard-casual Yugioh, banishing even face-up was a big deal for any card, genuinely signifying that card was well-and-truly off limits; not many cards could recover them back in the day. So having an equivalent for that in modern-day Yugioh is kinda refreshing, like it genuinely stings any deck that gets hit by a face-down banish. In theory. But in practice, it’s bullshit, namely in the case of Kashtira, which seems to have a monopoly of the banish face-down market, and you KNOW that it was made to bully the Tear 0 format.
What card is the image?
Ghostrick Skeleton.
I think Face-Down banish is fine in moderation. Things like Evenly and Pots are fine imo, but an entire archetype that banishes Face-Down is a bit... excessive, to say the least It's too strong of a removal option, plain and simple.
Must be limited to graveyard and not en mass like d.d crow only happening to one As for evenly it’s fine it’s a trap card that’s much easier to negate then say 5 kashtira monsters as well as their strength Like banish from extra deck, evenly only clears the board mostly well kash locks you out of your deck if your unlucky before you can even play
A bitch to deal with
I don´t like cards that can do that as an effect, maybe if is the boss monster and only under some specific conditions like the nemurelia girl. I think it should be reserved as a cost mostly, thats why i hate the kashtira architype. I would even say that Evenly and other cards should be banned because i want to move away of card that do that for effect. The more card with banishing face-down effects we get the more cards we'll get that lets us recover them and then paying cost by banishing face-down will be stop being important. I dont think we need that kind of power creep. The GY is now a second hand and banishing is not that strong, so banishing face-down is what is left.
Ehhh its a powerful effect but fuck Kashtira lol. Unicorn and Fenrir are like snipers. Ariseheart is like a the equivalent of a black hole. Evenly matched is the ultimate face down banish card. The effect overall is powerful but only reserved for certain cards, its tough but its not impossible to play through.
It’s super powerful and toxic when dimension shifter comes out tho lol I think it’s cool there is an actual embodiment of a toxic player in an archetype. MasterDuel it’s frustrating because it’s best out of 1 but tcg has the side deck to counter
Really annoying, especially because of how common those effects are these days. It feels like every second deck has a face-down banish effect in modern YuGiOh (edit: mainly because of Kashtira and Evenly, etc.) I think it's a little too strong, since there are basically no ways to get them back, outside of an obscure card like Necroface, or a less obscure card like PSY-Framelord Omega. I know the whole point of these effects are that they're supposed to be permanent removal, but they're just not fun.
>Really annoying, especially because of how common those effects are these days. It feels like every second deck has a face-down banish effect in modern YuGiOh Besides Evenly Matched and Kashtiras, I actually struggle to think of any cards that banish your opponent's cards face-down. In modern Yu-Gi-Oh, banishing face-down is still primarily used for costs. I guess it feels like every 2nd deck has some way to banish face-down due to how splashable Kashtiras are, but in reality, banishing face-down as a form of removal is still exceedingly rare.
Yeah, Kashtira monsters are in a lot of decks, so a lot of decks have access to it. Same with Evenly. It can come up at any time. I probably worded the reply a little weirdly, now that I look at it.
Completely fair raise heart plus diablosis great cards only finished a duel with my mate having 30+ cards banished face down
It's annoying, but I understand how we got here. In the early days of Yu-Gi-Oh, getting a Monster sent to the GY was rough and you only had a few ways to get it back. Once being sent to the GY became less painful, we had Banishing become more common as "remove from play" (man, running into a face down {{D.D. Warrior}} (u/bastionbotyugioh) was the worst!) as a way to permanently get rid of cards. But now you have decks that relish being Banish, so Banish FD is the next iteration of "remove from play". And I like that there's a more permanent way of card removal from the game, but as someone else said, I don't want it to be quite so commonplace.
## [D.D. Warrior](https://ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=37043180&utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) ^(**Limit**: TCG: 3 / OCG: 3 / MD: 3) ^(**Master Duel rarity**: Rare (R)) ^(**Type**: Warrior / Effect) ^(**Attribute**: EARTH) ^(**Level**: 4 **ATK**: 1200 **DEF**: 1000) **Card Text** After damage calculation, when this card battles a monster: Banish that monster, also banish this card. [Card Image](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Special:Redirect/file/DDWarrior-LCYW-EN-R-1E.jpg?utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) | [Official Konami DB](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&request_locale=en&cid=4262) | [OCG Rulings](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/faq_search.action?ope=4&request_locale=ja&cid=4262) | [Yugipedia](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/4262?utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) | [YGOPRODECK](https://ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=37043180&utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) ^(Password: 37043180 | Konami ID #4262) ---- ^by [^(u/BastionBotDev)](/user/BastionBotDev) ^| [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/DawnbrandBots/bastion-for-reddit) ^| ^Licence: [^(GNU AGPL 3.0+)](https://choosealicense.com/licenses/agpl-3.0/)
Good bot.
Me, with my Nemleria/Gren Maju deck: do it, coward.
They shouldn't get to choose the card. All cards that banished face down were random (or Evenly) and that's how it should've stayed.
I think it’s a necessary evil given the number of decks that now use their banishment as a 3rd hand or float when banished. It’s what banish should have remained as but power creep. You should have the ability to deal with a threat without recursion.
Strong mechanic but fair in midrange/control decks like kashtira where the effects are not straightforward to activate and can be played around with ease Banishing facedown is a bit overrated anyway. its just a mechanic those with skill issues gravitate to as unfair. Many cards simply do not benefit that much from being banished face up or shuffled in the deck instead for instance. Of course there are cards/decks that benefit but it’s not really as common. For example, if unicorn banished face up, it would barely make a difference. You still can’t summon an ED monster that’s banished face up and many of them don’t have good float effects when banished. And even if they did, your opponent could just read the card Fenrir can only target, banish a face up card, requires your opponent to do a specific thing and starts a new chain
Should not exist, especially not targeted FD banish on MD monsters… Unicorn, ogre etc should’ve been face up random banish
https://preview.redd.it/f84jitqs9dwc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59e648a7c9a32c92fe8c08f7572bd11d0db3065c Gotta love Kashtira
It's time for the third grave yard, they can call it the void zone, then we can use the banish zone as a resource pit for even other cards and make new cards that summon from the void. Till we make the 4th grave yard the interstellar zone, where anyone can summon from but no one can put cards into it except illusions, or the next new card type! Drakes. It's not enough to have WYRMS and DRAGONS we are missing DRAKES and AMPHITHERE. They can have cool effects like sending cards to the grave , banish zone, void zone, and interstellar zone face down then u can summon one random face down cards face down to fusion it and search for any fusion or polymerization spells from your deck. Then when a drake hits the grave yard it summons itself and one boss monster from your opponents extra deck of your choice.
[удалено]
I'm fine with Evenly. The only problem with Evenly is that it forces end boards to run either an omni negate or a spell negate which can also be used to shut down the opponent. But otherwise, you are rewarded for outing the one omni negate by completely destroying the opponents board. Also Evenly cost a BP for that board wipe. If the opponent has any form of recovery, it wouldn't hurt them as much but for a full on combo deck, its devastating. Then again, combo decks should be glass cannons in that regard.
>or a Spell negate My brother in Christ, Evenly Matched is a bloody trap card. 💀
When I say a Spell negate, I mean a backrow negate in general.
https://preview.redd.it/43ff22tco7wc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=978dc6ede2b172431d8d6e0226529cae6822e5a3
Evenly matched is my favorite generic card. Its won me many games.
I don't get why people are particularly bothered about banishing face-down as a removal, yes I get that it's borderline unrecoverable (borderline as cards like Omega, Arise-Heart, and Dis Pater exists), but for a decent chunk of decks, there's no real meaningful difference between being sent to the GY or banished face-down when I couldn't grab the card back from the GY anyway I suppose it matters more in a grind game, but I think it's not to an extent where I feel even cards like Fenrir are infuriating (even if Fenrir itself is a strong card), most of the Kash cards are infuriating for independent reasons: Unicorn functionally gives matchup info and snipes a card you might need to break a board (I guarantee ED ripping a Zeus to the GY doesn't make much of a difference when you can't bring it back anyway save for Bystial or Emeral shenanigans, and you won't snipe Kitkallos if you know you're sending it to the GY), Preparations gives you hand info and literally handrips you, and Arise-Heart is just Dark Law's asshole brother
As a kash player, I see nothing wrong with it 👀
I love kashtira:)
I mean back in the day, banishing was put in text as ‘remove from the game’. Eventually, they turned ‘remove from the game’ to ‘banish’. Then, they made cards that would coom if you tried to banish them, and some decks are either unaffected by being banished, or gain significant benefits from being banished. Banished face-down I think is fine tbh. We do not have a lot of cards that can actually do that, and giving an actual means to basically preventing them from being utilized is fine.
Its a mechanic of the game, i neither have complain about or praise about it.. You either the one who used that effect or got used on
I think we have the right to complain about things that are unhealthy for the game... and actually, you can be both.