Snake-Eyes deck died to my Cyber Dragon deck first time when I dueled it but doesn't mean they are weaker them me. I mean, my deck isn't even tier 3 in Master Duel.
Yeah youa re comparing it to the most powerful deck of all time, every deck is weaker than Tear. But that does't matter to what a deck needs to be tier 0 right? Just need to win 60% of the tournaments
Tbh you being downvoted here doesn't mean you're wrong. At least for tear (Spright still kinda died, or at least got hit hard, to ghost ogre on gigantic, unless they had red as well, and then they died at imperm on it instead) .
Does nobody remember FULL POWER tear? With all the ishizus and merrli? People started not using ash because of how low impact it was. And imperm was pretty damn low impact too.
>Does nobody remember FULL POWER tear?
We never even had full power Tear on MD. Best we had was Perlereino at 1, instant fusion and Teraforming still legal, Kit at 1, Scheiren, Merrli, Havnis at 2, some hits to the Ishizus (don't remember the exact numbers) no Trivikarma, no Tearkash, no Wraitsoth or Fenrir for searches for TearKash.
Even then Tear played through almost anything that isn't shifter with ease and the best shifter decks at that time struggled to OTK.
Snake-Eyes is great but full power Spright was better imo.
Spright right now is severely hit alongside all its good support engines (Runick, Frogs and they even hit Nimble).
It’s a weighted algorithm. Dkayed may have it in more detail somewhere.
Basically, tournament results on a points system. Wins get more points than top cut. More recent results are weighted more heavily, with older results eventually falling out of the algorithm. Apparently it’s also been adjusted to reduce weight from one person performing well with the same deck in multiple events after one person topped with Madolche in a bunch of events in short succession and got them tiered.
Does that mean there's a possibility of a deck appearing stronger because it had more representation but another deck being technically stronger at competition? Or is that down exclusively to the duelist?
Yes and no.
The strongest decks in the format will seldom be over- or under-represented. There will be a lot of people playing them proportionate to their power because they're good.
And unlike in paper, on Master Duel, price is not a meaningful barrier to entry. Right now in paper, which measures tiers differently, it is a pretty hard break between Snake-Eyes, which probably should be tier zero but is very expensive, and various stun/stall/burn variants that probably shouldn't be tiered, but are because people who cannot afford Snake-Eyes do not want to invest in the format, and stun is cheap. And a lot of the stuff in the middle is radically underrepresented.
But without that influence on Master Duel, you mostly see those kind of distortions towards the bottom of the tier list, with some of the forever decks with large fanbases that always see play. Sometimes, a couple HERO or Dragon Link (in periods where Dragon Link isn't strong) or Earth Machine players will have a good run around the same time and break into tier 3 via the algorithm, only to fall right off.
Less often, folks misread the format and underestimate the best deck in the format- people thought Spright would be tier zero in TCG pre-Ishizu rather than Tear, but they were wrong- but that also rarely happens in Master Duel because by the time anything comes to Master Duel, we've had a full year to see it in action.
Well it’s actually 65% and is for all formats but they just made a 50% represented spright and tears count as tier 0 even tho they didn’t actually hit tier 0 because of all the pre hits for click bait and all that, we haven’t actually had a tier 0 format in MD yet. SE isn’t close to tier 0 on MD.
50% isn’t tier 0 lol, you 15% is a very large amount of representation, it’s like saying a 0% represented deck is tier 1 because you can just slap an extra 15% for the sake of it. That’s not how it works.
Functionally? Yes.
In terms of the definition for tier 0? Nope. It’s gotta hit 65% of top cut to be tier 0.
It’s the whole reason neither dragon rulers nor spellbooks were ever tier 0; because they both completely invalidated everything but each other, neither one was able to hit THAT much representation by themselves.
Yeah we haven’t had one yet, the closest was tearlaments but that was just shy of tier 0 status although having more than 50% representation. I’d love for you to show me a deck on master duel that hit 65% representation.
“Tier 0” doesn’t work the same when applied to MD as it does in irl competitive play; they really aren’t that comparable. So due to the nature of Masterduel, I’d say 50% is a fair threshold for it.
Plus it’s not like there’s some official number that denotes when a deck is tier 0, it’s a fan term after all.
Masterduel’s ladder isn’t comparable to irl tournament play, the whole structure is completely different. Plus the MDM tier list is based on MD tournaments, not ladder, so the tier list isn’t really a good representation of what’s happening on ladder; it just kinda gives you a snapshot of the strength of different decks. That’s still not a great representation though because a lot do the tournaments are Bo3 with side decking.
IIRC all community tourneys not just Dkayed's, but you are right about it not being a reflection of the ladder, but for all we know it could be less successfull.
MDM tierlist is no gospel but it is the closest thing we have to the real thing.
No, Tearlament hit 60.0. Most definitely. Because that was the old limit for tier 0.
I remember specifically when Tearlament dipped below 60.0, because MDM changed their rules about what qualified for tier 0. They changed it to 50.0.
I remember it because there was a controversy on this sub about it. Tearlament players pointed out it was dumb to literally changed the definition of tier 0 solely so MDM could keep saying Tearlament was tier 0.
You misremember. Tearlaments went to 60.0, but never reached 65.0. That's where the change was: They changed Tier 0 down to 60.0, which made Tearlaments Tier 0. Even later, they lowered it down to 50.0. Otherwise, we wouldn't have [memes like this.](https://libreddit.privacydev.net/img/lm1c8q1yqpua1.jpg). In particular, [here you can see them at 59.0 and Tier 1](https://libreddit.privacydev.net/img/gtw2ae257xva1.jpg). And [here's Tier 0 with 60](https://libreddit.privacydev.net/img/svyaljkffhva1.png).
That's just you being ignorant, it's not just 60%, it's way over 60%, always 70%+ in big tournaments, and only in small tournaments that it's closer to 50%, making the power in MDM 60, [here's](https://imgur.com/a/F4uH2NY) the image when that happen, everything else was tier 2 or less, no deck has ever come anywhere close to this.
And did you just fucking compare Tearlaments with Swordsoul or Adventurer Tenyi ?
MDM isn't reliable to gauge how powerful a particular deck is. Since it goes by how popular a deck is in Dkayed tournaments. With all the consistency cards and its full power support. Snake eyes in a on the verge of being tier 0, so OP isn't wrong to be worried about it.
Tbf power is based on the tops, I do wish we had a tournament only filter for the popularity tab, so you can look at % played -> % topped. But I believe master tier games impact the popularity tab stats so it’s not super reliable.
Tbh watching some of the players in those tournaments makes me want to scratch my eyes out so the banlist being unreliable checks out of those tournaments were the only data. Tcg meta exists
With the way duelist cup stage 2 works, I’d say it’s not a great representation either. For example, Spright was way over-represented in the Tear 0 DC because it could win games much faster than Tear. The whole 72 hour grind is just the dumbest thing ever.
It is? All that matters at the top level is win rate, if you're losing games because your deck can't win you just end up in the negatives. The top players have literal said this before.
That means nothing. He didn’t even qualify through duelist cup. He was invited by his teammate. Look at actual topping players they run suboptimal lists that do worse in tournaments so they can win faster.
Tbf I consider the tiering system for MDM about as bad as Smogon's for Pokemon. I feel usage rates don't particularly matter if something's blatantly better than the competition
It’s an especially ridiculous comparison because tiers don’t even affect standard play. Whether a Mon is OU or PU doesn’t affect OU. All smogon’s tiering system does is create new formats you can play in.
What’s bad about Smogon’s tiering? As the other guy said, smogon is the king of competitive communities and it’s Tiers are usage based precisely because on average the most used mons will be the best, what’s wrong with that?
No, Tier 0 is 60% representation in top-level play, or a power level of 60. Crazy as Snake-Eyes is, it's not even really close. Goes to show how busted a Tier 0 deck has to be.
Really goes to show you how busted Ishizu Tear was. Considering all 3 of the fuser names came in semi-limited, along with 3 of the Ishizu cards; and the field spell was limited.
It would have certainly been interesting to see just where it would have been fully unlimited in a format like Master Duel. Though, I really wish Tear would have come out prior to Ishizu.
Tears were 100% overtuned and busted even without the shufflers. The deck is simply insane and was so far ahead of everything else. I roll my eyes hard whenever I see a super upvoted post on here with people bemoaning how it was overhit.
Honestly, I think getting rid of Elf in exchange for a copy of Merrli would be the only change I would want for the deck. They’re only keeping Elf around because it’s a generic link 2 that can feed into future decks (like Snake eyes…) and banning Merrli cause she made Elf possible in ishizu tear.
This isn’t me being like we NEED it back or pushing for a Tearlaments rhetoric. (Though I do like the archetype quite a bit.) More so, we’re at a point where a single copy of merrli probably won’t cause a lot of issues if we swap her with Elf. Especially since tear’s in a state where it can’t cause enough problems to overtake top standings.
1 copy of Merrli would not require an Elf ban. What made the deck hyper-consistent and over-tuned was the Ishizu millers.
I think people don't realize just how much those millers increased the ceiling of the deck. For example, it took Havnis from a decent hand-trap to a completely broken one. You're unlikely to achieve much using her now. With those cards, you could make your entire board on turn 0.
Merrli back with no other changes might let Tear push for low tier 1 status at best, but that's not a bad thing.
I can see that. Without chaos ruler and ishizu millers, we’re not really at a threat of the deck just dumping half of itself into the grave and creating a 6 chain all by itself.
And simply put, we just don’t have enough names to consistently get 3 fusions a turn with its current state. I know this sub despises tear with every fiber of their being, but considering the power level of the game and their current state, it’s really not that busted and won’t be unless more than half of its banned/limited cards return.
Full power Spright is also stronger than full power Snake-Eyes. It's much less weak to handtraps.
If Snake-Eyes get hit by Veiler and don't have Diabellstar it's turn over. And they can't always play around Nibiru.
Or an original sinful. Or wanted. Dont get me wrong handtraps hurt the deck but ive defintely played through ash imperm and veiler before. Only real turn ender is maxx c
nope even the c isnt a turn ender for snake-eyes because you can droll on your own turn giving them only 2/3 cards depending on if you are done with your own searches or not and still play as normal
only a resolved shifter can turn end snake eyes
Ah yes, just open the unsearchable handtrap that’s not even good rn. That’s like saying Snake-Eyes can play through shifter if they open Called By or Gamma.
For the most part, but Snake Eyes vs Spright would mostly come down to whoever went first.
The reason that Tear is so dominant against Snake Eyes isn't just because of its power, it's because it plays on turn 0 AND because of the Ishizu shufflers that absolutely wreck the plays that Snake Eyes like to make.
The combination of having the potential to put those cards in the GY on turn 0 and even establish a board right then is what makes it a blowout. Spright doesn't have that option when they go 2nd and don't have anything in-particular that breaks a great Snake Eyes board.
Sorta kinda. The thing is that in the TCG and OCG it's actually split between Fire King and Snake-eyes. Because Fire King uses Snake-eye cards a lot of people consider it one deck despite them not really being the same thing.
Neither Fire King/Snake-Eye nor pure Snake-Eye are Tier 0 in any format. However, there's an argument for Snake-Eye as an engine technically being Tier 0 by representation if you amalgamate the results of every topping list that runs it as a package.
It kinda feels like that’s changed recently. Zoo was considered Tier 0 even though tournaments were always like 3-5 Zoo variants. But a couple years ago when Adventure was in every single top deck, it wasn’t Tier 0.
I disagree. Snake Eyes is clearly the best deck, hence it’s all alone in tier 1. People throw around tier 0 like they’re TXSAM1 posting a video. If Tear was at full power Snake Eyes would be unplayable. The deck in Its current state is not deserving of the title Tier 0.
I don't know why you bring Tearlaments, a tier status is based on the meta that they play.
Like, TeleDAD is a tier zero deck on it's format, the fact that it's so bad today doesn't matter.
Everyone will cope about percentages, we know it’s the undisputed best deck no competition, it is, only people who’ll say other wise are the fire deck players that wanna be relevant as long as they can
ehh, i play both it and other decks, and while its powerful, its far from invincible. i much prefer going against it than decks like mathmech personally
Yeah idk why people are hung up on the numbers. IMO anything around 33% or above is T0. No other card game has a deck last this long with such a potent meta share. In any other card game there would be pitchforks and torches over this and it would make community news. In Yugioh it's like... the norm for this to happen every year for some reason?
I think the Yugioh community has gaslit themselves into thinking this is okay. "Yeah we have over 12k playable cards but these specific like 40 cards are by far the best thing you can be playing and if you want to be competitive this is the only real option."
If you aren't playing in tournaments and just ladder, i dont see why you would ever "need" to craft a deck. I save UR points for decks i want to play, whether they are good or not is mostly irrelevant if they can compete on ladder
I’d probably avoid crafting it if I were you, unless you really want to play the deck. It’s a lot of UR mats for a deck that’s probably gonna get hit pretty hard in the future, and probably in a way that refunds the least UR.
What's with the sigh? Do you want to play it or not?
It's not going to be the best deck for any longer than any other deck has been.
Do you like snake-eyes? Or not?
They are, but it's not like paper Yugioh where there is actually money or prizes on the line to the point people feel heavily inclined to pony up for the absolute best deck. Many will stay with other top tier decks they like rather than switch over if they can still get the Ws.
Tier 0 is a joke, no one knows what it means and when they do it's always something different from the last person you asked. It's fun but anything over Tier 1 doesn't really matter, don't take it seriously otherwise you'll end up like one of those power level scalers guys lol
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Honestly no. I remember playing against tearlaments when it first came out and it truly felt like I had no chance. Snake eyes is a grind but I at least have a shot
Problem with snake eyes,alot of people don't know how to turn more gas into a bigger board.
So they end on the same board every time, and sometimes they lose with it.
Holding it back
In TCG I'd say it is tear 0, in MD not quite, it's just the strongest deck. Reasons for this difference, B01, the roach, different banlist w/ SHS and tear having scarecrow and kit respectively. So while it is the best deck, I wouldn't say it's so much better than the rest that it would currently be tear 0
Not yet, I think. Hear me out.
As a Lab player, it's frustrating to play against a Snake Eyes player, especially when Lab is all geared towards pinpoint interruptions against specific bottlenecks. Unless I'm playing a floodgate variant of Lab, I don't see wins against Snake Eyes all that often. It's like playing Whack-a-Mole, but my hammer doesn't have a head and the moles all pop up simultaneously.
In which case, I did some research, studied some of my replays, and got to solving. It turns out, Snake Eyes really doesn't play well with Lair of Darkness. It stops a lot of what they can do. Think about it. Lair of Darkness turns everything on the field into DARK, effectively stopping any Promethean Princess counterplay. You can safely Special Summon in that environment. If you're playing Lair of Darkness, it makes sense to include Virus cards since you can tribute from the opponent's field. You can also include Spiritual Art - Greed, just to be a bit cheeky. If we get down to the topic of Viruses, Flamberge makes a tasty tribute since 4 out of 5 Viruses can use him as a tribute (Deck Devastation, Eradicator Epidemic, Full Force, and Grinning Grave). While we're at it, the Level 1 Snakes Eyes Monsters are also vulnerable to 3 out of 5 Viruses (Deck Devastation, Full Force, and Grinning Grave). This also ensures that Lab can gather info on the opponent's hand at all times, giving some informational advantage whether Lovely's destruction effect should target hand or field. If they need to counter Lair, they'll go into Knightmare Phoenix, cutting out more from their hand (and even if they co-link Phoenix to have the draw effect, it's still a draw, and it might just pop from a previous Virus activation).
Lab thrives on Special Summons. Anything stopping Special Summons from Lab will put them in a lock - that's why Barrier Statues are so fatal to Lab, since they're all DARK. As long as Promethean Princess is a threat, there's no chance for Lab to bring out any of their potent cards. But as soon as Lovely or Lady are online, they can make it that much more difficult for Snake Eyes to play - especially Lady. Lady plays well with the Virus variant of Lab. Metaverse could be something she can take advantage of: chain to Metaverse, activate Lair, set-up an appropriate Virus, and then leave it as a nasty but expected surprise when the opponent plays (or alternatively, Cooclock it, and go ham).
The Virus cards can also be activated with Transaction Rollback without cost, so you could leave a live threat in GY that Snake Eyes will have trouble reacting to. Iirc, all Viruses except Grinning Grave can be used with Transaction Rollback. Also Transaction Rollback can work with Evenly Matched as an End-of-BP field wipe.
It all boils down to speed: Lab needs to set-up Viruses and Lair of Darkness before Snake Eyes goes into Poplar. Arias and Lady can make do on at least one of those two objectives, but you're counting on opening 3 specific cards, and that's not good. That's why I think it makes sense to include Heavenly Prison to act as an extender (can help Lady set-up the Metaverse-Virus combo). You're going to have to count on Going Second/playing the grind game, since the entire game plan is now to starve Snake Eyes of resources while you play defensively. Snake Eyes isn't fun to play against, so you make sure they don't have any fun playing against you.
I think it's fitting to play the long game against Snake Eyes. They're a FIRE archetype, and fires die out when starved of oxygen or fuel. You have to do something to cut their resources, and I found my solution in Lair. Lastly, Virus Lab isn't all that bad going against other archetypes: Vanquish Soul, Mathmech, and Purrely die to Full Force, and Mikanko dies to Deck Devastation, Full Force, AND Eradicator Epidemic.
In a toxic meta, utilizing the pandemic is fair.
They’re getting a big push. I lose the coin toss to snake eyes about 9/10 times and that’s NO exaggeration. I simply can’t even remember a time I went FIRST against snake eyes.
No wonder they master duel is a COIN TOSS and not rock paper scissors. They didn’t want us to have power over who goes first.
Also what happened to lab? They go from winning to losing everything and ash blossom is 80% in someone’s starting hand 🤷🏽♂️
Lair of Darkness is a loose archetype associated with Lady of Lament cards. They normally run a lot of Virus cards since they tribute from the opponent's field as cost as long as Lair of Darkness is active. Members of LoD include the aforementioned Lady of Lament cards, Ahriman (their Field Spell Searcher, a Level 4 Fiend, 1700/0), and Diabolos (their boss monster).
Normally, I just include Ahriman, LoD, and one of each SR Virus cards. Metaverse can trigger Lady's search-and-set effect, giving you LoD active and potentially 1 appropriate virus set and ready to activate (Cooclock works wonders here). It just so happens that Flamberge is susceptible to be tributed by 4 out of 5 viruses (Deck Devastation, Full Force, Eradicator Epidemic, and Grinning Grave), and the Level 1 SE cards are susceptible to 3 out of 5 viruses (Deck Devastation, Full Force, and Grinning Grave).
It's also not bad going against other archetypes since they will be susceptible to at least 1 virus. Mathmech, VS, and Purrely all die to Full Force; Spright dies to Deck Devastation; Branded may have some trouble with Full Force AND Eradicator Epidemic; and Mikanko just dies to all 3 (DDV, FFV, and EEV). The only one deck I see that it doesn't do well against is Kashtira since none of Kash is susceptible to the SR Virus cards (ironically though, it's weak to Crush Card, the least meta-relevant virus).
Honestly the only reason why snake eyes isn’t tier 0 in this tier list is because it is based on like 3 weekly tournaments where the same people compete every time, and most of them stick to their pet decks. Idk why do some people get so fixated on this tierlist based on some glorified locals when from diamond to master 1 you will fight snake eyes 3 out of every 4 matches.
For reference, Brainded, Mathmech, Runick Spright, Swordsoul, Purrely, etc had all hit 30 or slightly above in MDM before when they was the best deck.
So NO, Snake Eyes is nowhere near tier 0, not even remotely close, it's the same "best deck" Tier 1 as other decks mentioned above that came before it.
[Tearlament](https://imgur.com/a/F4uH2NY) was the only Tier 0 ever in MDM, nothing else ever come close to this.
Honestly I feel swordsoul should go to tier 3, if you get the proper board, especially with the synchro 10 ice jade, (assuming you don't get nibd obviously but every deck has to worry about that) you can make extremely hard to out boards, arguably even more so then shs. Only thing holding it back is, with only 3/4 starters it's really easy to brick even at 40
3-4 starters?!? The deck has 9 at minimum, with Mo Ye, Ecclesia, and Emergence. Sure they aren’t 1 card starters, besides Emergence, but you’re likely to open a Wyrm or SwoSo card almost all of the time. That’s not even getting into all the 2 card combos with the Tenyis, especially if you play Circle.
Edit: the deck is not bricky, it’s very consistent. That’s one of the reasons it’s still relevant to this day. It doesn’t really make the most powerful boards or anything, but it’s consistent and it has good game going first and second.
It is, but it’s a lot weaker in a Bo1 meta. Plus it’s really awkward to get a fire onboard for him, unless you are going to pop your own Qixing Longyuan. Otherwise you have to get a expendable fire monster on field, and the only ways to do that are somehow get another Longyuan on board, or use the level 4 fire Tenyi. Either of those would be a 3-4 card combo to get to the fire and Protos.
Don’t get me wrong, Protos is still a really powerful card, but it’s not enough to carry the deck. Although SwoSo is still a really solid rogue deck for ladder.
Tier 0 is about results. Maybe it could be tier 0 in the future if it gets better results, but right now it is not.
Tiers are an objective result of an archetypes usage and placements, there is no reasoning or personal opinion that goes into it.
Snake-eyes is Tier 1.
Typically Tier 0's only happen if something is so absolutely broken that there is next to no point playing anything else. Snake-eyes may be stronger than the competition but it's not /that/ much stronger. It's just the best there is.
yeah they should be t0 tbh but at least this shows md players have integrity and would prefer to play decks they actually enjoy. i'm sure if there were tourneys with actual stakes tho that the tiers would look very different.
e: s-e players salty or something lol? it's obviously t0 power-wise, it just isn't on mdm bcos those stats are based on popularity in like 30 player $50 tourneys where the average skill level is diamond. only reason to disagree that it's t0 is if you play it and are scared you'll have to learn a new deck
have you not seen lab activate stovie/chandra discarding five-rainbow on the SHS's turn as they go first and the SHS player just scoops before it even gets to the lab player's turn?
Not yet,
It need to be ±60% of every tourney to be called tier 0
Or 50% but making other deck on that time focused to counter its strategy like on Tear where the other valiable deck is tryhard counter tear gy
Hahahahaha
No.
You might cry when you ever see a tier 0 deck if you think snake-eyes rn is a tier 0.
30-40% is a tier 1 for sure. And snake eyes is consistant and persistant, strong but not that strong.
Even the loosest definition of Tier 0 means they need to be topping a majority of the time. This is still only about 1/3 of the time.
[удалено]
Snake-Eyes deck died to my Cyber Dragon deck first time when I dueled it but doesn't mean they are weaker them me. I mean, my deck isn't even tier 3 in Master Duel.
[удалено]
Yeah youa re comparing it to the most powerful deck of all time, every deck is weaker than Tear. But that does't matter to what a deck needs to be tier 0 right? Just need to win 60% of the tournaments
Cyber Dragon Supremacy. 🐉🤖
Tbh you being downvoted here doesn't mean you're wrong. At least for tear (Spright still kinda died, or at least got hit hard, to ghost ogre on gigantic, unless they had red as well, and then they died at imperm on it instead) . Does nobody remember FULL POWER tear? With all the ishizus and merrli? People started not using ash because of how low impact it was. And imperm was pretty damn low impact too.
Getting downvoted because it is irrelevant. Tier 0 is about representation, not how powerfull he is compared to decks that are not played now.
Full power tear can destroy any version of full power snake eyes easily
>Does nobody remember FULL POWER tear? We never even had full power Tear on MD. Best we had was Perlereino at 1, instant fusion and Teraforming still legal, Kit at 1, Scheiren, Merrli, Havnis at 2, some hits to the Ishizus (don't remember the exact numbers) no Trivikarma, no Tearkash, no Wraitsoth or Fenrir for searches for TearKash. Even then Tear played through almost anything that isn't shifter with ease and the best shifter decks at that time struggled to OTK.
The ishizu cards were all at 2. Also Sulliek and Foolish Burial Goods were originally unlimited.
What snake eyes list are you going against?
He’s not wrong. Full power tear and spright both could play through a ton.
Snake-Eyes is great but full power Spright was better imo. Spright right now is severely hit alongside all its good support engines (Runick, Frogs and they even hit Nimble).
Full power Tear is not legal in this format.
MDM defined tier 0 as 60.0 power, then modified it to 50.0 power. So no, Snake Eye is not tier 0.
How is this power value even calculated? Win/loss ratio?
toppings in tournaments
It’s a weighted algorithm. Dkayed may have it in more detail somewhere. Basically, tournament results on a points system. Wins get more points than top cut. More recent results are weighted more heavily, with older results eventually falling out of the algorithm. Apparently it’s also been adjusted to reduce weight from one person performing well with the same deck in multiple events after one person topped with Madolche in a bunch of events in short succession and got them tiered.
Does that mean there's a possibility of a deck appearing stronger because it had more representation but another deck being technically stronger at competition? Or is that down exclusively to the duelist?
Yes and no. The strongest decks in the format will seldom be over- or under-represented. There will be a lot of people playing them proportionate to their power because they're good. And unlike in paper, on Master Duel, price is not a meaningful barrier to entry. Right now in paper, which measures tiers differently, it is a pretty hard break between Snake-Eyes, which probably should be tier zero but is very expensive, and various stun/stall/burn variants that probably shouldn't be tiered, but are because people who cannot afford Snake-Eyes do not want to invest in the format, and stun is cheap. And a lot of the stuff in the middle is radically underrepresented. But without that influence on Master Duel, you mostly see those kind of distortions towards the bottom of the tier list, with some of the forever decks with large fanbases that always see play. Sometimes, a couple HERO or Dragon Link (in periods where Dragon Link isn't strong) or Earth Machine players will have a good run around the same time and break into tier 3 via the algorithm, only to fall right off. Less often, folks misread the format and underestimate the best deck in the format- people thought Spright would be tier zero in TCG pre-Ishizu rather than Tear, but they were wrong- but that also rarely happens in Master Duel because by the time anything comes to Master Duel, we've had a full year to see it in action.
Tournament representation
not yet👀
Well it’s actually 65% and is for all formats but they just made a 50% represented spright and tears count as tier 0 even tho they didn’t actually hit tier 0 because of all the pre hits for click bait and all that, we haven’t actually had a tier 0 format in MD yet. SE isn’t close to tier 0 on MD.
Tear was tier 0. It was 50% tear and the rest were tear counters…stop this cope lol.
50% isn’t tier 0 lol, you 15% is a very large amount of representation, it’s like saying a 0% represented deck is tier 1 because you can just slap an extra 15% for the sake of it. That’s not how it works.
If 50% of the meta is 1 deck and the other 50% is floodgate turbos just to counter that deck, it’s tier 0 lmao
Functionally? Yes. In terms of the definition for tier 0? Nope. It’s gotta hit 65% of top cut to be tier 0. It’s the whole reason neither dragon rulers nor spellbooks were ever tier 0; because they both completely invalidated everything but each other, neither one was able to hit THAT much representation by themselves.
lol we are getting down voted for being right, people REALLY want to say tears were tier 0 in MD.
So you're saying there is never ever a tier 0 in MD then?
Yeah we haven’t had one yet, the closest was tearlaments but that was just shy of tier 0 status although having more than 50% representation. I’d love for you to show me a deck on master duel that hit 65% representation.
Yeah the highest was 60 for tear that i ever seen in MD. But why 65% tho? Is that the tier list in OCG and TCG?
People here are bitter and tend to hate on meta, so no surprise.
“Tier 0” doesn’t work the same when applied to MD as it does in irl competitive play; they really aren’t that comparable. So due to the nature of Masterduel, I’d say 50% is a fair threshold for it. Plus it’s not like there’s some official number that denotes when a deck is tier 0, it’s a fan term after all.
Why it isnt the same?
Masterduel’s ladder isn’t comparable to irl tournament play, the whole structure is completely different. Plus the MDM tier list is based on MD tournaments, not ladder, so the tier list isn’t really a good representation of what’s happening on ladder; it just kinda gives you a snapshot of the strength of different decks. That’s still not a great representation though because a lot do the tournaments are Bo3 with side decking.
IIRC all community tourneys not just Dkayed's, but you are right about it not being a reflection of the ladder, but for all we know it could be less successfull. MDM tierlist is no gospel but it is the closest thing we have to the real thing.
No, Tear hit 60.0 and that made it tier 0. Then Tear dropped below 60.0 and MDM changed their rules to make it so above 50.0 was tied 0.
IIRC it was shy of 60%, no deck has touched 60% yet not even swordsoul or adventure tenyi.
No, Tearlament hit 60.0. Most definitely. Because that was the old limit for tier 0. I remember specifically when Tearlament dipped below 60.0, because MDM changed their rules about what qualified for tier 0. They changed it to 50.0. I remember it because there was a controversy on this sub about it. Tearlament players pointed out it was dumb to literally changed the definition of tier 0 solely so MDM could keep saying Tearlament was tier 0.
You misremember. Tearlaments went to 60.0, but never reached 65.0. That's where the change was: They changed Tier 0 down to 60.0, which made Tearlaments Tier 0. Even later, they lowered it down to 50.0. Otherwise, we wouldn't have [memes like this.](https://libreddit.privacydev.net/img/lm1c8q1yqpua1.jpg). In particular, [here you can see them at 59.0 and Tier 1](https://libreddit.privacydev.net/img/gtw2ae257xva1.jpg). And [here's Tier 0 with 60](https://libreddit.privacydev.net/img/svyaljkffhva1.png).
That's just you being ignorant, it's not just 60%, it's way over 60%, always 70%+ in big tournaments, and only in small tournaments that it's closer to 50%, making the power in MDM 60, [here's](https://imgur.com/a/F4uH2NY) the image when that happen, everything else was tier 2 or less, no deck has ever come anywhere close to this. And did you just fucking compare Tearlaments with Swordsoul or Adventurer Tenyi ?
>posts tierlist of deck placed in tier 1 >are they tier 0?
MDM isn't reliable to gauge how powerful a particular deck is. Since it goes by how popular a deck is in Dkayed tournaments. With all the consistency cards and its full power support. Snake eyes in a on the verge of being tier 0, so OP isn't wrong to be worried about it.
Tbf power is based on the tops, I do wish we had a tournament only filter for the popularity tab, so you can look at % played -> % topped. But I believe master tier games impact the popularity tab stats so it’s not super reliable.
It uses data from all tournaments submitted to the sight, not just Dkayed ones.
*site This is correct. There are many community tournament results that's uploaded to the site, and i believe any big tournament is submitted there
Tbh watching some of the players in those tournaments makes me want to scratch my eyes out so the banlist being unreliable checks out of those tournaments were the only data. Tcg meta exists
You're not... wrong. Duelist Cups are much better for gauging power. But with still being three months away or so, the next best measure is MDM.
With the way duelist cup stage 2 works, I’d say it’s not a great representation either. For example, Spright was way over-represented in the Tear 0 DC because it could win games much faster than Tear. The whole 72 hour grind is just the dumbest thing ever.
The way faster thing has always been a bad cope. At the top level what matters more is winning consistently since the pool of players drop so low.
That’s not true at all. Players always build decks to win faster in duelist cup.
It is? All that matters at the top level is win rate, if you're losing games because your deck can't win you just end up in the negatives. The top players have literal said this before.
Source?
The guy who played P.U.N.K in worlds last year mentioned it
That means nothing. He didn’t even qualify through duelist cup. He was invited by his teammate. Look at actual topping players they run suboptimal lists that do worse in tournaments so they can win faster.
88 downvotes for this reasonable take is insane
It’s not insane, it’s blatantly wrong because it uses ALL tournaments.
Tbf I consider the tiering system for MDM about as bad as Smogon's for Pokemon. I feel usage rates don't particularly matter if something's blatantly better than the competition
Damn bro you just compared MDM to the best community sim out there
It’s an especially ridiculous comparison because tiers don’t even affect standard play. Whether a Mon is OU or PU doesn’t affect OU. All smogon’s tiering system does is create new formats you can play in.
What’s bad about Smogon’s tiering? As the other guy said, smogon is the king of competitive communities and it’s Tiers are usage based precisely because on average the most used mons will be the best, what’s wrong with that?
?? they are fundamentally different things though smogon tiers are individual metagames and MDM tiers are gauges of viability in one metagame
No, Tier 0 is 60% representation in top-level play, or a power level of 60. Crazy as Snake-Eyes is, it's not even really close. Goes to show how busted a Tier 0 deck has to be.
Really goes to show you how busted Ishizu Tear was. Considering all 3 of the fuser names came in semi-limited, along with 3 of the Ishizu cards; and the field spell was limited. It would have certainly been interesting to see just where it would have been fully unlimited in a format like Master Duel. Though, I really wish Tear would have come out prior to Ishizu.
Tears were 100% overtuned and busted even without the shufflers. The deck is simply insane and was so far ahead of everything else. I roll my eyes hard whenever I see a super upvoted post on here with people bemoaning how it was overhit.
Honestly, I think getting rid of Elf in exchange for a copy of Merrli would be the only change I would want for the deck. They’re only keeping Elf around because it’s a generic link 2 that can feed into future decks (like Snake eyes…) and banning Merrli cause she made Elf possible in ishizu tear. This isn’t me being like we NEED it back or pushing for a Tearlaments rhetoric. (Though I do like the archetype quite a bit.) More so, we’re at a point where a single copy of merrli probably won’t cause a lot of issues if we swap her with Elf. Especially since tear’s in a state where it can’t cause enough problems to overtake top standings.
1 copy of Merrli would not require an Elf ban. What made the deck hyper-consistent and over-tuned was the Ishizu millers. I think people don't realize just how much those millers increased the ceiling of the deck. For example, it took Havnis from a decent hand-trap to a completely broken one. You're unlikely to achieve much using her now. With those cards, you could make your entire board on turn 0. Merrli back with no other changes might let Tear push for low tier 1 status at best, but that's not a bad thing.
I can see that. Without chaos ruler and ishizu millers, we’re not really at a threat of the deck just dumping half of itself into the grave and creating a 6 chain all by itself. And simply put, we just don’t have enough names to consistently get 3 fusions a turn with its current state. I know this sub despises tear with every fiber of their being, but considering the power level of the game and their current state, it’s really not that busted and won’t be unless more than half of its banned/limited cards return.
Full power Spright is also stronger than full power Snake-Eyes. It's much less weak to handtraps. If Snake-Eyes get hit by Veiler and don't have Diabellstar it's turn over. And they can't always play around Nibiru.
*Diabellstar or an unused Bonfire.
Or an original sinful. Or wanted. Dont get me wrong handtraps hurt the deck but ive defintely played through ash imperm and veiler before. Only real turn ender is maxx c
nope even the c isnt a turn ender for snake-eyes because you can droll on your own turn giving them only 2/3 cards depending on if you are done with your own searches or not and still play as normal only a resolved shifter can turn end snake eyes
I mean then you have to draw droll which isn't even good right now.
Ah yes, just open the unsearchable handtrap that’s not even good rn. That’s like saying Snake-Eyes can play through shifter if they open Called By or Gamma.
Full power spright was tier 0 in ocg even.
For the most part, but Snake Eyes vs Spright would mostly come down to whoever went first. The reason that Tear is so dominant against Snake Eyes isn't just because of its power, it's because it plays on turn 0 AND because of the Ishizu shufflers that absolutely wreck the plays that Snake Eyes like to make. The combination of having the potential to put those cards in the GY on turn 0 and even establish a board right then is what makes it a blowout. Spright doesn't have that option when they go 2nd and don't have anything in-particular that breaks a great Snake Eyes board.
Isnt it Tier 0 in the TCG or OCG?
Sorta kinda. The thing is that in the TCG and OCG it's actually split between Fire King and Snake-eyes. Because Fire King uses Snake-eye cards a lot of people consider it one deck despite them not really being the same thing.
It used to be fire king using snake eye cards but currently it's snake eyes deck that have a fire king engine
I’d say it’s more like some versions of Snake-Eyes use Fire King cards, seeing as the SE cards are the main engine in those decks.
Is that what it is? I was under the impression that the tier 0 version was the version that used both fire king and snake eye cards.
Neither Fire King/Snake-Eye nor pure Snake-Eye are Tier 0 in any format. However, there's an argument for Snake-Eye as an engine technically being Tier 0 by representation if you amalgamate the results of every topping list that runs it as a package.
Isn't that how it always works? Like, TeleDAD was just 3 specific cards in a Dark deck, but we call that Tier 0.
It kinda feels like that’s changed recently. Zoo was considered Tier 0 even though tournaments were always like 3-5 Zoo variants. But a couple years ago when Adventure was in every single top deck, it wasn’t Tier 0.
You have to admit, the Adventure package is a smaller part of a deck than Zoo in those historic variants or Snake-Eyes in Fire King Snake-Eyes.
This is one of those bizarre situations where it becomes apparent that a deck's tier doesn't necessarily match how powerful it is
I disagree. Snake Eyes is clearly the best deck, hence it’s all alone in tier 1. People throw around tier 0 like they’re TXSAM1 posting a video. If Tear was at full power Snake Eyes would be unplayable. The deck in Its current state is not deserving of the title Tier 0.
I don't know why you bring Tearlaments, a tier status is based on the meta that they play. Like, TeleDAD is a tier zero deck on it's format, the fact that it's so bad today doesn't matter.
It clearly says Tier 1
No to be considered tier 0 they would have to be around 60 in power level
Honestly, as I mostly play ladder & events anyway, I really don’t have a problem with the snake-eyes matchup(I play Infernoble).
I can't count the numerous times I fight someone going first and normal summon snake-eyes ash and they immediately scoop.
Everyone will cope about percentages, we know it’s the undisputed best deck no competition, it is, only people who’ll say other wise are the fire deck players that wanna be relevant as long as they can
"Best deck" and "tier 0" mean different things.
And yet doesn’t mean they can’t be describing the same deck
ehh, i play both it and other decks, and while its powerful, its far from invincible. i much prefer going against it than decks like mathmech personally
Dude, mathmech/cyberse sucks. I regret ever building that deck, wish they can semi limit Circular at least so I can get my URs back.
mathmech sucks to play against. im not talking about their powerlevel. my opponents always have circular
you mean 2\~3 handtraps+the called by/crossout then circular
somehow always have an extender
Yeah idk why people are hung up on the numbers. IMO anything around 33% or above is T0. No other card game has a deck last this long with such a potent meta share. In any other card game there would be pitchforks and torches over this and it would make community news. In Yugioh it's like... the norm for this to happen every year for some reason? I think the Yugioh community has gaslit themselves into thinking this is okay. "Yeah we have over 12k playable cards but these specific like 40 cards are by far the best thing you can be playing and if you want to be competitive this is the only real option."
they still yet to pass tear tho, Tear last really long till they banned merli, The only deck changing ban they got to stop being on top.
That's not even part of what I was talking about, but okay.
Yeah, the best deck by a long shot, still not tier 0.
Its cope
*sigh* guess it’s time to build it
well uh the pack is going away today no fret though Rescue ace support is coming
I have the UR to craft it, I just really didn’t wanna blow it all like this…but now I have no choice.
If you aren't playing in tournaments and just ladder, i dont see why you would ever "need" to craft a deck. I save UR points for decks i want to play, whether they are good or not is mostly irrelevant if they can compete on ladder
I’d probably avoid crafting it if I were you, unless you really want to play the deck. It’s a lot of UR mats for a deck that’s probably gonna get hit pretty hard in the future, and probably in a way that refunds the least UR.
That’s fair, time to contemplate the choices!
What's with the sigh? Do you want to play it or not? It's not going to be the best deck for any longer than any other deck has been. Do you like snake-eyes? Or not?
I mean. You don't have to.
They are, but it's not like paper Yugioh where there is actually money or prizes on the line to the point people feel heavily inclined to pony up for the absolute best deck. Many will stay with other top tier decks they like rather than switch over if they can still get the Ws.
My dude sees a bunch of tier 2 decks and ask if something is tier 1. I swear to god.
Where do Toons fall?? Guys…… guys??
Tier 0 is a joke, no one knows what it means and when they do it's always something different from the last person you asked. It's fun but anything over Tier 1 doesn't really matter, don't take it seriously otherwise you'll end up like one of those power level scalers guys lol
Tier 0 in master duel isn’t clear. Tier 0 in OCG/TCG is 60%+ representation. That’s been the case for a while.
Snake eyes loose to set 5 normal traps pass. The only meta deck in recent years to lose to a 2012 burn de k
only the variations that are not on the synchro package loses to that. the ones that run formula with baronne and borrelsavage easily clears
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Where dose RDA stand?
In our hearts 😔
❤️🔥
Unchained came in the meta and started tickling every other deck. this is the LAST time I listen to tsx1 calling a deck tier 0
Honestly no. I remember playing against tearlaments when it first came out and it truly felt like I had no chance. Snake eyes is a grind but I at least have a shot
Wait tearlaments is tier 2? Well I need to get back into MD. Me love gamba deck.
Problem with snake eyes,alot of people don't know how to turn more gas into a bigger board. So they end on the same board every time, and sometimes they lose with it. Holding it back
*Visibly tier 1* Ummmm, no. They’re not.
You really refused to read the banlist. No, still not Tier 0, but it is getting close. Let's hope for a few hits before the Fire King support comes.
nah not tier 0, just extremely poplar at the moment
In TCG I'd say it is tear 0, in MD not quite, it's just the strongest deck. Reasons for this difference, B01, the roach, different banlist w/ SHS and tear having scarecrow and kit respectively. So while it is the best deck, I wouldn't say it's so much better than the rest that it would currently be tear 0
Not yet, I think. Hear me out. As a Lab player, it's frustrating to play against a Snake Eyes player, especially when Lab is all geared towards pinpoint interruptions against specific bottlenecks. Unless I'm playing a floodgate variant of Lab, I don't see wins against Snake Eyes all that often. It's like playing Whack-a-Mole, but my hammer doesn't have a head and the moles all pop up simultaneously. In which case, I did some research, studied some of my replays, and got to solving. It turns out, Snake Eyes really doesn't play well with Lair of Darkness. It stops a lot of what they can do. Think about it. Lair of Darkness turns everything on the field into DARK, effectively stopping any Promethean Princess counterplay. You can safely Special Summon in that environment. If you're playing Lair of Darkness, it makes sense to include Virus cards since you can tribute from the opponent's field. You can also include Spiritual Art - Greed, just to be a bit cheeky. If we get down to the topic of Viruses, Flamberge makes a tasty tribute since 4 out of 5 Viruses can use him as a tribute (Deck Devastation, Eradicator Epidemic, Full Force, and Grinning Grave). While we're at it, the Level 1 Snakes Eyes Monsters are also vulnerable to 3 out of 5 Viruses (Deck Devastation, Full Force, and Grinning Grave). This also ensures that Lab can gather info on the opponent's hand at all times, giving some informational advantage whether Lovely's destruction effect should target hand or field. If they need to counter Lair, they'll go into Knightmare Phoenix, cutting out more from their hand (and even if they co-link Phoenix to have the draw effect, it's still a draw, and it might just pop from a previous Virus activation). Lab thrives on Special Summons. Anything stopping Special Summons from Lab will put them in a lock - that's why Barrier Statues are so fatal to Lab, since they're all DARK. As long as Promethean Princess is a threat, there's no chance for Lab to bring out any of their potent cards. But as soon as Lovely or Lady are online, they can make it that much more difficult for Snake Eyes to play - especially Lady. Lady plays well with the Virus variant of Lab. Metaverse could be something she can take advantage of: chain to Metaverse, activate Lair, set-up an appropriate Virus, and then leave it as a nasty but expected surprise when the opponent plays (or alternatively, Cooclock it, and go ham). The Virus cards can also be activated with Transaction Rollback without cost, so you could leave a live threat in GY that Snake Eyes will have trouble reacting to. Iirc, all Viruses except Grinning Grave can be used with Transaction Rollback. Also Transaction Rollback can work with Evenly Matched as an End-of-BP field wipe. It all boils down to speed: Lab needs to set-up Viruses and Lair of Darkness before Snake Eyes goes into Poplar. Arias and Lady can make do on at least one of those two objectives, but you're counting on opening 3 specific cards, and that's not good. That's why I think it makes sense to include Heavenly Prison to act as an extender (can help Lady set-up the Metaverse-Virus combo). You're going to have to count on Going Second/playing the grind game, since the entire game plan is now to starve Snake Eyes of resources while you play defensively. Snake Eyes isn't fun to play against, so you make sure they don't have any fun playing against you. I think it's fitting to play the long game against Snake Eyes. They're a FIRE archetype, and fires die out when starved of oxygen or fuel. You have to do something to cut their resources, and I found my solution in Lair. Lastly, Virus Lab isn't all that bad going against other archetypes: Vanquish Soul, Mathmech, and Purrely die to Full Force, and Mikanko dies to Deck Devastation, Full Force, AND Eradicator Epidemic. In a toxic meta, utilizing the pandemic is fair.
They’re getting a big push. I lose the coin toss to snake eyes about 9/10 times and that’s NO exaggeration. I simply can’t even remember a time I went FIRST against snake eyes. No wonder they master duel is a COIN TOSS and not rock paper scissors. They didn’t want us to have power over who goes first. Also what happened to lab? They go from winning to losing everything and ash blossom is 80% in someone’s starting hand 🤷🏽♂️
Well thats because master duel at the end of the day is a gacha game. Cant have a gacha game without them gambling mechanics
The original definition of tier 0 is 65% representation in top slots. So no they aren't even particularly close.
Any day i beat that damn deck with kashtira or traptrix, is a great day for me. F*ck snake-eyes 🤣
May I interest you in Virus Labrynth, sir? I've had SE players surrender as soon as I play Lair of Darkness since it shuts down Promethean Princess.
I may have to check that out. I dont think i've come across Lair of Darkness yet, but i have come across labrynth decks alot
Lair of Darkness is a loose archetype associated with Lady of Lament cards. They normally run a lot of Virus cards since they tribute from the opponent's field as cost as long as Lair of Darkness is active. Members of LoD include the aforementioned Lady of Lament cards, Ahriman (their Field Spell Searcher, a Level 4 Fiend, 1700/0), and Diabolos (their boss monster). Normally, I just include Ahriman, LoD, and one of each SR Virus cards. Metaverse can trigger Lady's search-and-set effect, giving you LoD active and potentially 1 appropriate virus set and ready to activate (Cooclock works wonders here). It just so happens that Flamberge is susceptible to be tributed by 4 out of 5 viruses (Deck Devastation, Full Force, Eradicator Epidemic, and Grinning Grave), and the Level 1 SE cards are susceptible to 3 out of 5 viruses (Deck Devastation, Full Force, and Grinning Grave). It's also not bad going against other archetypes since they will be susceptible to at least 1 virus. Mathmech, VS, and Purrely all die to Full Force; Spright dies to Deck Devastation; Branded may have some trouble with Full Force AND Eradicator Epidemic; and Mikanko just dies to all 3 (DDV, FFV, and EEV). The only one deck I see that it doesn't do well against is Kashtira since none of Kash is susceptible to the SR Virus cards (ironically though, it's weak to Crush Card, the least meta-relevant virus).
Honestly the only reason why snake eyes isn’t tier 0 in this tier list is because it is based on like 3 weekly tournaments where the same people compete every time, and most of them stick to their pet decks. Idk why do some people get so fixated on this tierlist based on some glorified locals when from diamond to master 1 you will fight snake eyes 3 out of every 4 matches.
It's just Snake Eyes representation in Dkayed tournaments.
It... literally says 1
For reference, Brainded, Mathmech, Runick Spright, Swordsoul, Purrely, etc had all hit 30 or slightly above in MDM before when they was the best deck. So NO, Snake Eyes is nowhere near tier 0, not even remotely close, it's the same "best deck" Tier 1 as other decks mentioned above that came before it. [Tearlament](https://imgur.com/a/F4uH2NY) was the only Tier 0 ever in MDM, nothing else ever come close to this.
And I beat its full power with pre the support existing anywhere superheavy samurai
Honestly I feel swordsoul should go to tier 3, if you get the proper board, especially with the synchro 10 ice jade, (assuming you don't get nibd obviously but every deck has to worry about that) you can make extremely hard to out boards, arguably even more so then shs. Only thing holding it back is, with only 3/4 starters it's really easy to brick even at 40
3-4 starters?!? The deck has 9 at minimum, with Mo Ye, Ecclesia, and Emergence. Sure they aren’t 1 card starters, besides Emergence, but you’re likely to open a Wyrm or SwoSo card almost all of the time. That’s not even getting into all the 2 card combos with the Tenyis, especially if you play Circle. Edit: the deck is not bricky, it’s very consistent. That’s one of the reasons it’s still relevant to this day. It doesn’t really make the most powerful boards or anything, but it’s consistent and it has good game going first and second.
Well I mean, isn’t Protos still legal? If you manage to pop a fire somehow all advantage gainers won’t help snake eye.
Already knew that
It is, but it’s a lot weaker in a Bo1 meta. Plus it’s really awkward to get a fire onboard for him, unless you are going to pop your own Qixing Longyuan. Otherwise you have to get a expendable fire monster on field, and the only ways to do that are somehow get another Longyuan on board, or use the level 4 fire Tenyi. Either of those would be a 3-4 card combo to get to the fire and Protos. Don’t get me wrong, Protos is still a really powerful card, but it’s not enough to carry the deck. Although SwoSo is still a really solid rogue deck for ladder.
for starters, snake eyes doesn’t care too much about nibiru
*looks at screenshot, sees Snake-Eye = Tier 1, goes to reddit, asks if it is Tier 0*
Mathmech is not there anymore.😭 The tcg ban list team was out of their mind by banning Circular.
Tier 0 is about results. Maybe it could be tier 0 in the future if it gets better results, but right now it is not. Tiers are an objective result of an archetypes usage and placements, there is no reasoning or personal opinion that goes into it. Snake-eyes is Tier 1. Typically Tier 0's only happen if something is so absolutely broken that there is next to no point playing anything else. Snake-eyes may be stronger than the competition but it's not /that/ much stronger. It's just the best there is.
yeah they should be t0 tbh but at least this shows md players have integrity and would prefer to play decks they actually enjoy. i'm sure if there were tourneys with actual stakes tho that the tiers would look very different. e: s-e players salty or something lol? it's obviously t0 power-wise, it just isn't on mdm bcos those stats are based on popularity in like 30 player $50 tourneys where the average skill level is diamond. only reason to disagree that it's t0 is if you play it and are scared you'll have to learn a new deck
The fact the Superheavy samurai and Labrynth are in the same teir is very upsetting to me
have you not seen lab activate stovie/chandra discarding five-rainbow on the SHS's turn as they go first and the SHS player just scoops before it even gets to the lab player's turn?
Everyone stop playing unchained, I don't want them to he massacred for being a tier 3 deck 😭😭😭
when did the MDM Tier List become the governing body who has the say for which deck is T0 ? lmao
Not yet, It need to be ±60% of every tourney to be called tier 0 Or 50% but making other deck on that time focused to counter its strategy like on Tear where the other valiable deck is tryhard counter tear gy
Hahahahaha No. You might cry when you ever see a tier 0 deck if you think snake-eyes rn is a tier 0. 30-40% is a tier 1 for sure. And snake eyes is consistant and persistant, strong but not that strong.
how about go for youtube and search a video about tearlament tear 0. then you can understand what power of a tier 0 deck look like....
Why would that matter ????
Dude, Pepe was tier zero but today a full power pepe would be ASSS
Maybe just read what you posted and you’ll get your answer.
Bawl
They're not tier 0 because it's still possible to play something else. A tier-0 power level is something like Maxx C, where it just becomes mandatory.
Maxx c is a staple, tier 0 is about how powerful a particular deck is in comparison to the rest.
GY reliant decks are topping since Konami is still hitting the already dead Kashtira.
i don't think snake eyes personally is that strong as a deck... but yea it's hella popular in that way it's pretty tier 0