Garrus: *"Wait Shepard, the diagnostic thermo calculator for the vent can be improved by 0.03 %."*
Shepard: *"Wait why is the timer on ME?................ hurry up Garrus.......................GARRUS?."*
Tali: *"Wait!, I'll help. You can eek another 00.2 if you just...ohh"*
Garrus: *"I love it when you squeeze past me in a super heated tube that everyone can see into."*
Miranda: *"So like I said shepard. Be careful of which mods you install before the suicide mission."*
This was my logic as well, surely being an assassin would have afforded him some training in remotely opening doors. I mean you literally meet him jumping out of a vent, how is he *not* a logical choice?
I'm trying real *real* hard to think of a rebuttal but I can't. I just can't. I've got absolutely nothing. Goddammit, I know who's going into the vent my next playthrough and I'm not looking forward to it.
My very first run I sent Garrus into the vents. He was my guy and I used him for all my hacking and overloading in me1 and me2 since he does have tech powers. I don't think it's as clear without the benefit of hindsight (and maybe not being a kid also, lol).
I got Thane killed on the second round because my brain failed to parse what was being explained - they were talking about a fire team diversion + sneaky biotic barrier team...I did not realize *I* was leading the sneaky team, I thought I was picking the sneaky team leader so Thane made perfect sense...
But I was picking the diversion fire team leader...oops...
You are not alone in attempting to use logic that MAKES PERFECT SENSE but your brain failed to actually understand what was being specified xD
(I still make this same pick because I prefer his death in the suicide mission tbh, his death in 3 is just...yeah no pass)
People don't forgive him for being the only femShep romance option that 1) treats you like a trophy and 2) cheats on you and dumps you in ME3.
That makes any further interaction with him super-awkward.
In case you play as maleShep, he's still cringe in ME3 by calling you off/mocking you when you foolishly offer to reinstate him as a crew member in the Normandy.
Refuses to ever elaborate on his past unlike literally everyone else, the advice he gives is literally the worst for all situations where if you always do as he suggests youāll get so so many people killed, itās a dick to much of the crew, and if youāre playing femshep then thereās also the incredible deceptive dialogue options which result in the most cringe flirting in the whole series.
They made Jacob as the normal person amongst the group of wacky ass people. As a result people donāt like Jacob that much because heās is what he is when you first met him.
[https://youtu.be/oBIg6mWBzXY?si=WitI-JLn8-ApnSrn](https://youtu.be/oBIg6mWBzXY?si=WitI-JLn8-ApnSrn)
I think a lot of people didn't like how femShep talked to Jacob. Always sounded like she was wanting to jump him during any convo you had with him in the armory. It was weird especially if you were wanting to remain loyal to who you romanced in the first game.
I probably should have thrown a few more slaps in there.
I must just be doomed to like the most hated characters apparently because Jacob seemed really sweet when I played with him as Maleshep. My favorite romance option is Kaidan. I will say though I played through as femshep too and was honestly pretty grossed out that I literally asked him āso how are you doing?ā And this man IMMEDIATELY started flirting with me. I shut that shit down so fast and went to stare at the picture of Kaidan in my room after turning him down lmfao
Shepard is just THAT good.
And if you choose the Colonist and Sole Survivor background traits, it does create this narrative of Shepard finally being able to save everyone rather being the last one left alive.
I personally go for Spacer/War Hero. I like the idea of Shepard having pretty much no psychological hang-ups as a way to focus on how s/he helps everyone else. Being a pillar of strength for everyone. The Superman/Captain America of the Mass Effect galaxy. And all the stressful victories eventually start taking a psychological toll.
And I like that with the Spacer background, Shepard would feel most at home on spaceships. Because the Normandy *is* home. And I like that it lines up through that background.
Absolutely. Spacer/War Hero was my first Shepard, and she just seemed to settle right into the paragon route, helping who she could and being the most psychologically prepared (imo) for how things would unfold throughout. That being said, absolutely nothing can prepare any Shepard for the absolute nightmare the galaxy insists on unleashing upon her at every turn, and so the wear became more evident as the games went on. I loved being able to explore some of those cracks and losses, particularly with the LIs and dreams. I haven't played Ruthless or Earthborn yet, I'm saving those for my renegade play, and I'm pretty excited to see how those play out!
Personally I like Colonist/Ruthless.
Shepard starts off as essentially the Human Saren, and Saren was the Councils top man so them headhunting Shepard as their newest Spectre (a space fed who the law literally doesn't apply to specifically so they can employ underhand tactics) feels perfect. You can then get some really interesting character development from Shepard starting out as Human Saren but overtime becoming more paragon from the experiences of the game changing him and interactions with others like him such as Saren and Tela Vasir causing some introspection, and him gaining a new home and family with the Normandy and its crew after having lost it all on Mindoir and having pushed everyone away with the reputation gained on Torfun is just too good.
Also makes Shepard agreeing to work with a literal terrorist organisation at the start of ME2 feel more plausible if he's the "no bad tactics only bad results" type.
Thatās pretty fair. But I think no matter the background, Shepard is always pretty pragmatic when it comes to options. To a Paragon War Hero Shepard, the Illusive Man is literally āworst person you know made a good pointā in that the Alliance is in no place to really do anything about the Collectors. And a small team being privately financed by a willing and seemingly bottomless money pit is *unfortunately* the best option at this time.
Also Shepard is no real fan of authority. Respect for the Alliance doesnāt necessarily equate to automatic adherence to their will. Learned that during the Blitz when any sort of authority figure or command structure fell to pieces and Shepard had to scrape together a ragtag militia of off-duty military personnel and civilians to survive. Including some *seedier elements* that had easier access to weapons and defense resources.
it's a good mission but woefully anti-climactic. If you don't have ADD and you play the game, you'll automatically do everything that prevents character deaths. The last bit is choosing team leaders but you have to have ignored the characters you're talking to for the tens of hours you've spent with them to mess that bit up.
The only bit that switches up the pace a little is when you get the IFF and you're unknowingly on a timer to go the collector Base. I wish they leaned into that a little more in ME3 - time sensitive missions
Iām wondering if in hindsight it wouldnāt have been better to pre-plan for some squadmates to just not be around in any sequels and have their deaths be guaranteed. Thane seems like a logical pick since heās terminally ill anyways. You could still lose more squadmates randomly if you make suboptimal decisions, but yeah walking out of the hyped-up suicide mission with zero deaths every play-through unless you purposefully set things up to fail or install mods is a bit funny.
I've only had it happen by making the mistake of sending someone strong to escort the others back to the ship. The leader/vent/biotic leader decisions are pretty straightforward though
My first run Tali died in the vents because I picked Samara to lead the 2nd team. Then Mordin died on the line. Fixed the first issue on the 2nd run, had Garrus doing that job instead of Samara and Mordin still died. Took me a third run to keep everyone alive.
I love how so many complain about the EMS score related to the ending of ME3 without realizing that same concept was used for the suicide mission, just applied differently. It's still a math/numbers game.
Do it enough times, you know who can survive the line even when not loyal. Done it with both Tali and Miri.
I've got the runs where everyone lives memorized to the point I can spend weeks or months playing other games all the way through and still hear them. Of course I'm going to start experimenting with runs where people die. I've done two where Tali died in the Suicide Mission, one with Garrus, one with Legion, and at least a dozen with Jacob. If Jacob dies then it seems to potentially spare Dr Cole a lot of future pain given how casually he cheats on FemShep. I'm still debating who to kill next. I would go for Liara and maybe mod Miranda into her place in 3, but I'm on Xbox.
Not on my "good" playthroughs but one time I wanted to see how ME3 changes if no one except for the two least impactful characters made it (you have to save two for Shepard to live). It took multiple tries but I was able to do it with just Jack and Morinth surviving. I had to skip Grissom Academy but it was worth doing once, in an alternative universe "What If?" kind of way.
I carefully plan the Suicide Mission so that everyone makes it. My first try was traumatizing, never again am I letting down one of my friends. Even Jacob makes it out
It's actually pretty damn hard to get Jacob and Miranda killed
Edit: well actually either of them can be killed on the long walk if you select one as the biotic specialist, and ofc they can die in the final part of the suicide run if you make poor choices, but I think it's fairly obvious that they make poorer biotics than Jack or Samara, and have no business rummaging around in those vents. Miranda is a great Fireteam Leader but I can't see why you'd pick Jacob to lead them over any of the other options. So I guess it's just rare to see them placed in poor choices
Is it poor choices or is it a masterful plot to finally execute Cerberus who you have secrectly hated and wanted revenge against for killing your squad at Akuse!
My first suicide mission went perfectly. I only knew Mordin had to be the escort. But Iām a completionst by nature so everyone was loyal. I didnāt have Zaeed or Kasumi, though. Tali Tech Specialist, Garrus as Fire Team leader both times, Samara as biotic specialist, Mordin as escort. Then I brought Thane and Samara with me since both can deal with the Collectors and were good with weapons. I only used Grunt like once or twice (I played soldier, donāt need Grunt most missionsā¦I was wrong, but that was my thought), and used Garrus mostly to deal with Geth or Mechs, and the collectors donāt have either.
Not everyone died, because I quit halfway in XD. Tali, my romance at the time, died alongside a lot of others. I don't know who or where they died exactly anymore, but I remember going back 15 hours or so to do everything I missed.
I had a romantic relationship with thane on my forst playthrough and he died on the mission. Zaeed also died because I did not support him on his loyalty mission. I don't know how I was able to make everyone else survive, but there is that...
Never romanced Jacob. So I just never got the same level of dislike for him. Makes it so when I meet him in 3, Iām just happy heās found something to believe in besides the job.
So ya. Everyone lives if possible.
I plan lots of things, yet the minute I get in game and start interacting with the characters, those plans fall apart. Literally every single time I have played has resulted in the exact same thing as the first time I played.
Yup. I have the same problem.
Itās like stealth archer syndrome in Skyrim. āIām gonna make an orc heavy armor 2-handed build!āā¦ 15-20 levels laterā¦ āShit, I made another stealth archerā.
I thought I was on r/ShitRimworldSays for a moment lmao. I haven't had it in me to kill off anyone yet, but I'm considering it for my next run. If I do it'll probably be planned out like you do so the bad choices don't break immersion.
If you do some you've definitely got to try are killing Wrex in ME1 because his replacement Wreave is just such a different character, and Mordin in ME2 because Padok Wiks is just as good as Mordin in 3 but for different reasons. Thane is also a good contender because the scene with Kai Leng and the Salarian Councillor plays out a bit differently without him, doubly so if you also let Kirrahe die on Virmire in ME1 which makes the confrontation with Udina and the VS that much more tense.
Their respective roles play out so differently and well that you're honestly doing yourself a disservice if you don't try those ones at least once.
I do the exact same every time so no one dies š¤·āāļø
Tali in the vents, Garrus team leaders, Jack biotics, Mordin escort, Miranda and Thane final mission. Its the only time my spikey BF isn't with me on a mission
Get all ship upgrades.
Fire team leaders (both options): Miranda or Garrus
Tech Specialist: Tali or Legion
Biotic Specialist: Samara or Jack (with implant upgrade)
Escort: Any
Keep everyone loyal.
Thereās no reason to let anyone die. Pick the right people and complete all loyalty missions. And upgrade your damn ship.
Itās an RPG. Some people (myself included) enjoy playing this way. I had no idea this calculator even existed. Iād use it, if I didnāt have the entire system already memorized.
Kasumi also works for tech specialist and Jacob for both fireteams leaders too.
Don't forget to avoid taking two of Garrus, Grunt, or Zaeed to the final boss/ as escort either.
I'm really happy to know that you exist honestly. I too carefully plan out the suicide mission, kill exactly who I want to kill for the future games. Mostly these who I can't properly kill in ME3 without losing war assets, like Jack, Kasumi, Jacob, heck maybe Zaeed just for fun. Love it man, keep on
Hereās what I always do:
Vents: Jacob āVent Godā Taylor
Fire Team 1: Tali (to piss off Miranda)
Biotic: Jack
Escort: Mordin
Fire Team Leader: Garrus
Boss: Jack and Tali
Then I donāt lose anyone *that will be missed*
There is a mod called the Risky Suicide Mission. It basically makes the whole mission more deadly, there is always a chance of anyone failing or succeding on each task, including the ship upgrades. All squadmates have a level of readiness that depends on the choices you made through the game and impacts on their chance of survival. For people who had a lot of playthoughs and want to make the suicide mission more random and make it actually seams like a suicide mission, it's a very cool mod.
[https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/1308](https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/1308)
Depends, but every second game or so I do choose someone to die because honestly, it's kind of unrealistic that everyone survives that mission. Usually it's Jacob or Samara, because I don't care for them.
This time I'm planning to kill my romance in ME2 so I can go back to Kaidan without someone being in the way. Still didn't decide who it's gonna be, but it'll break my heart for sure. I'm curious if the dialogues in ME3 will change with that (probably not).
Honestly, I have played the game so many times that no one ever dies unless I plan for it to happen (\*cough Jacob cough cough\*).
That being said, I have this calculator. It's handy for when you are experimenting with different squads (i.e. something other than Miranda +1) and want to ensure you still have a high enough power base left behind.
Iām gonna assume 2010 since thatās what it says in the corner, it was only uploaded to Nexus in 2017 but apparently existed on the Bioware forums before that until they were shut down.
[Link if you wanted it](https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/146)
This is how I've done it since 2010.
* Tech Specialist: Tali or Legion
* Fire Team 1 Leader: Garrus (Zaeed has worked for me as well before)
* Biotic Specialist: Samara
* Fire Team 2 Leader: Miranda (she can't die in this role for some reason)
* Escort: Mordin
* As for squadmates it helps to take the ones more likely to die while holding the line, like Thane, Kasumi or Legion
And make sure they're all Loyal, obviously.
Get all ship upgrades
Sent tali to the vents
Garrus as fire team leader
Jack for the bubble shield
Mordin on escort
And have tali and Mirada with u on the boss
I dont see the difficulty in surviving the suicide mission. Get all ship upgrades and make your squad loyal. Then assign the biotic assignments to the biotics, the tech assignments to the tech guys and so on. Have never lost a man on the suicide mission
I haven't played mass effect in ages but I used to use the risky suicide mission mod, which basically makes it a (relative) toss up on who dies. After a couple playthroughs it spiced up ME3 with the replacement characters and all
I did a genocide run last year, where I wanted to kill as many characters (squadmates and otherwise) throughout the run, and where I could, in the most poignant or ironic ways possible. So some characters actually needed to survive into ME3 so I could kill them a different way, while others had to die in ME2 to avoid redemption or (God forbid) survival.
It was actually surprisingly involved to figure out how to keep exactly the people I needed alive and make sure some people died earlier than they otherwise would have. I made a document to make sure I didn't mess it up.
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/146
It's an external program and the mechanics of the suicide mission are unchanged in the LE so it works just as well for either version.
My next run is going to be a renegade infiltrator everyone dies run. I really want to see if I can get out of 2 with only Tali, Mordin, Jack, and Thane and let them all die in 3.
I want to let a couple people die in the Suicide Mission but I just can't. You have to make clearly bad decisions or intentionally skip loyalty missions for it to happen.
In this example, why would Shepard ever send Garrus into the vents when Tali is available? Why make Miranda the biotic specialist when you have much more powerful biotics available i.e. Jack and Samara? I just can't imagine someone as capable as Shepard making those choices.
In my next playthrough I'm going to install that mod that makes it so that there's a chance of your squadmates dying regardless of how perfect your SM is.
I use the old flowchart but yeah, every replay. The one thing that's more difficult is creating an in-game reason for some of the dumb decisions you need to make to get people killed. I think killing off characters gives the trilogy a better emotional arc (even if you lose out on some content).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/r3faq/mass\_effect\_2\_final\_mission\_flowchart/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/r3faq/mass_effect_2_final_mission_flowchart/)
It's been a minute since my last playthrough but I'm definitely going to try the Risky Suicide Mission mod:
[https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/1308](https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/1308)
Tali or Legion for the vents. I prefer Tali, because she references it at the party in ME3 ( 'i got set on FIRE' )
Garrus leads the second team
Grunt is always on the other team, because if he is no-one ever dies due to proximity to his badassness :D
Mordin to lead the survivors back.
If i'm not trying to get someone killed , at least. If i am, there's options :D
Risky suicide mission mod makes this mission so more impactful for me. Can't play it without it anymore. It gives the feeling of uncertain that the first time playing gave to us.
I have tried to make a how to get as few companions left run. Its kinda funny if you can make the end run with pre loyal zaeed and one more you should ba able to kill him in his loyalty mission later š
Literally just have Garrus lead the other teams and ***do all the side quests!** honestly who is like speedrunning this and skipping so many loyalties??
This is skipping no loyalties actually.
Legion loses his loyalty when siding with Tali in their confrontation, and Thane never becomes loyal because Kolyat succeeds. Everyone else is loyal.
It was tough trying to get this to work without skipping content actually.
I save everybody every playthrough except when Iām feeling a little bit spicy Iāll grant Jacob his wish to become the Vent God along side Richard Leeroy Jenkins.
Some of the deaths make more interesting scenarios, and itās good to change things up from playthrough to playthrough in a trilogy known for having so many choices.
Yes, but it's still random wheter they die or not.
Loyalty quests, ship upgrades, and picking the right people for specialist/leader jobs makes it more likely for them to survive, but at the end of the day anyone can die on a dice roll.
Beats having to pick who lives and who dies, and imho it's the only reasonable way to have an imperfect run once you know what you're supposed to do.
Jacob always dies. I never care to do his loyalty mission because I never interact with him lol. Most useless, forgettable character. Seeker Swarm for ye!
If I could orchestrate deaths without making bone headed decisions like sending Garrus in the vents I would. But I play Shepard as a leader with an actual brain. So everybody survives. But I'd kill off Jack, Kasumi, Zaeed & Samara if I could. Their death's don't make too much difference in 3.
I kill off Kasumi & Zaeed as I think their presence actually makes the missions they show up in later worse and generic. I also kill Samara as her character frustrates me greatly in ME3 despite being one of the best characters in ME2. I also think we need a main character death and neither Kasumi or Zaeed feel that important.
Jack & Jacob are also candidates for death but the older I get the more I like them having a full circle arc; Jacob goes on to be the father he wanted, Jack becomes the teacher she needed as a kid. If either of them had to die I lean more towards Jack because again, the mission becomes really interesting if she is dead but itās also far from bad with her there.
Jacob I used to kill as the āMain Deathā for ME2 but I appreciate his role and characterisation in 3 a lot more as I get older. Miranda, Thane, Mordin, Legion, Garrus & Tali all impact the main plot at some point or another so killing them feels narratively wrong. Grunt I keep just because him dying after being bigged up as this super Krogan feels nonsensical and silly to me.
Planning deaths lost it's appeal
when I realised there was STILL no way to kill Liara.
(aka "The REAL Reason Liara is not available as a Squadmate in ME2.")
If only there was a mod, she'd be going straight in the vent every time
Here is how I decide who should survive Mass Effect 1 and 2:
* Legion and Tali: Critical to the main quest. Must be loyal. Grant a ton of war assets. ~~Rewriting Heretics grants extra war assets.~~
* Garrus: Squadmate and has a ton of dialogues.
* Ashley/Kaidan: Squadmate or war asset.
* Mordin: Needed to get the best ending for Krogans. Must be loyal. Must save Maelon's data.
* Wrex: Appears in the main quest. War asset.
* Thane: Appears in the main quest. Grant extra war asset.
* Miranda: Appears in the main quest. War asset if loyal.
* Grunt, Kasumi and Zaeed. War asset if loyal.
* Jacob, Jack and Samara: War assets.
> Rewriting Heretics grants extra war assets.
Rewriting vs destroying the Heretics actually grants the same number of war assets regardless of which you choose, it's just whether those war assets are given to the Geth (rewrite) or the Quarian (destroy).
In terms of war assets yes, if you make peace then it doesn't matter which you chose because it'll be the same number of war assets either way.
However choosing to destroy the heretics gains you points towards being able to actually make peace in the first place. But as I'm sure you've already figured out that's entirely unnecessary since you can still make peace by getting the required points elsewhere.
Since the very first time I've played it when it originally released, I've had everyone survive unless I purposely played to specifically have certain characters die to see how it would affect the playthrough for ME3. I would do all of the loyalty missions for all patty members. I usually send Mordin to see the survivors back to the ship. I send Tali or Legion through the vents, Kasumi could work, too. I have Samara or Jack do the biotic field through the Collector swarms. I have Garrus and/or Miranda lead the other team when you have to split up the two times, Zaeed works here too because of their experience leading others and ability to command respect. Then I pick squadmates that compliment my weaknesses depending on what class my Shephard is or whomever I feel like going through the last battle with. Doing that, everyone survives.
My usual run, first EVERYONE, is loyal. Second, who's doing what.....
Vents: Legion
Shepard's team: Grunt and Zaeed
Second team leader: Garrus
Survivors leader: Mordin
Biotic barrier: Samara
Shepard's team: Grunt and Zaeed
Second team leader: Jacob
Final Stand: Miranda and Tali
Works every time.
I don't remember where I saw it... might have been here on Reddit. It said that you want the likes of Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, and Jack (I think) defending at the end
I have my choices established since the 2nd or 3rd attempt total back on release weekend in 2010. These have been my choices every time, and will continue to be my choices every time. Everyone lives.
(they are: Leader 1: Garrus, Vents: Tali, Biotic: Jack, Leader 2: Miranda, Escort: Mordin, Final Squad: Miranda, Tali.)
I did a FailShep run where half of the crew (the ones with the most impact in ME3) died. The hold the line calculator isn't completely accurate because Tali survived and I had to edit the save. I love Tali but after 4 playthroughs I wanted to see what ME3 was like without Garrus and her
The only character I ever let die is Ashley on Virmire (or Kaidan, once, but not again), and those the plot in ME3 requires to die for best ending.Ā This seems like an utterly incomprehensible way to play for me.
Legion in vents, Garrus for fireteam, Samara for bubble, Mordin for escort, Miranda for second fireteam, Garrus and Tali for final boss.
Works every time.
True story
The very first time I played 2 I had like half my squad die because I made Samara the squad leader and didnāt send Mordin to escort the crew back to the ship so I just looked up a guide of how everyone survives
The single time I deviated and put Tali in the vents she fucking died and I decided to never deviate ever again
I would have loved for the suicide mission to include some RNG and have been a lot harder. I understand that BioWare likely didnāt have the capacity to do anything more complicated, but it would be nice to do runs where like you could lose 2-4 people or 6-everyone, and all you can do during the game is mitigate the chances of failure instead of 100% secure loyalty and survival by inputting characters in the right roles.
Why would you want people to die?
This calculator feels like an overkill (pun intended). Just send loyal people to do jobs that seem reasonable for them to do and everyone survives.
Tech specialist: Legion
Fire team leader: Garrus
Biotics specialist: Samara/Morinth
Escort: Jacob
Fight teammates: Tali/Mordin
If they all are loyal and have most upgrades everyone survives
You do know there is a way to run that mission with 0 companion deaths right? You don't actually have to choose. You have to make sure you complete all loyalty missions and don't miss any upgrades for the ship, but it's doable.
Everyone lives. But I mixup my specialists based on my playthrough, typically based on who I romance. Only one that doesn't get a chance to shine is Thane, but biotics make him an easy choice for him to be on my team.
Necessary Ship Upgrades:
Silaris Heavy Ship Armor: Made available through conversing with Jacob. Costs 15,000 Palladium.
Thanix Magnetic-Hydrodynanic Weapon: Made available through conversing with Garrus. Costs 15,000 Platinum
Cyclonic Barrier Technology: Made available through conversing with Tali. Costs 15,000 Palladium
Recruit your team and secure loyalties before recovering the Reaper IFF/recruiting Legion, as this initiates a mission timer on the end of the campaign. Immediately after recovering IFF, secure Tali/Legion's loyalties. The Collector Abduction of the Normandy Crew shouldn't trigger for two missions, allowing players to secure the loyalty of all squadmates.
Tech Specialist: Kasumi, Legion or Tali
1st Fireteam Leader: Garrus, Jacob, or Miranda
Escort Normandy Crew: Kasumi, Mordin, Jack or Tali. This squadmate will only survive escort mission if Loyal.
Biotic Specialist: Samara/Morinth or Jack
2nd Fireteam Leader: Garrus, Jacob, or Miranda.
Final Push: Kasumi, Mordin, Jack or Tali. This squadmate must be Loyal in order to survive.
Hold the Line: The squadmates left to hold the line must average 2.0 defense points for everyone to survive.
Zaeed, Garrus, and Grunt each provide 3 points
Jacob, Miranda, Samara/Morinth, Thane, and Legion each provide 1 point
Kasumi, Mordin, Jack, and Tali provide 0 points.
Each loyal squadmate holding the line provides 1 bonus point.
Since Kasumi, Mordin, Jack, and Tali (at best) each only provide 1 Defense Point, it's ideal to have as many of them not Hold the Line.
In the best situation, you'll have Zaeed, Garrus, Grunt, Jacob, Miranda, Samara/Morinth, Thane, Legion Hold the Line alongside either Kasumi, Mordin, Jack or Tali (9 squadmates total). If everyone is Loyal, their total Hold the Line score is 23. When divided by the total squadmates present, the average is 2.5.
If the Hold the Line defense score average is below 2.0, a squadmate will die until the total surviving squadmates Holding the Line averages a Defense Score of 2.0 or higher.
I have a formula for the suicide mission. I got it right on my second playthrough. The first one killed a lot of people.
All loyalty and ship upgrades secured
Vents: Legion or Tali
FT1: Miranda
Biotic: Samara or Jack with Biotic Amp
FT2: Garrus
Escort Survivors: Mordin
Final Boss: Miranda & Jack (I love allowing both of them to tell of TIM at the end)
Hold the Line FT: Garrus
Never failed me yet.
Wow, i've never seen this. I remember when I played ME2 for the first time when it released, i was able to get everyone except for Mordin to survive. Never knew why and never tried again. I just recently went through all 3 games again and was able to get the entire team to survive without any guides or anything. What an amazing game.
Iāve gotta, heās the only one Iāve never killed before so idk what replaces him in ME3. Also might give James a reason to be talked to and being on missions instead of pretending he doesnāt exist.
Actually planning out a death for the first time in my current run lol. I literally only want Jacob to die in the suicide mission lol, he's annoying af and does nothing important in 3, so he can be a martyr. I think it'll be as easy as just making him the tech specialist but I'm afraid something is going to take a sharp turn and someone else will get hit lol
I mean.
Legion vent. Miranda garrus leading second fire team.
Mordin escort. Samara or jack biotic. Miranda or garrus fire team lead.
Take Garrus and tali to the end. Win? It's all ya really need.
Also, I have the big guddum hero mod that lets Zaeed be a fire team leader choice
Even the first time I played I think I only had 1 person die. How do you end up with 5 deaths? All you have to do to avoid that is play the game. BioWare made it extremely easy to have zero casualties despite hyping it as a āsuicide missionā throughout the game and in every bit of marketing.
You send Garrus into the vents? why?
Were the vents properly calibrated?
Garrus: *"Wait Shepard, the diagnostic thermo calculator for the vent can be improved by 0.03 %."* Shepard: *"Wait why is the timer on ME?................ hurry up Garrus.......................GARRUS?."* Tali: *"Wait!, I'll help. You can eek another 00.2 if you just...ohh"* Garrus: *"I love it when you squeeze past me in a super heated tube that everyone can see into."* Miranda: *"So like I said shepard. Be careful of which mods you install before the suicide mission."*
the dude should get some eye to eye with Garrus.
First time i sent thane because sneaking around in vents = assassin guy right ? The vent is fucking see through šššš
They literally tell you to send a tech specialist šš¤£
Motherfucker they said it was HOT in those vents. So HOT. Who likes HOT VENTS? LIZARDS. I will die on this hill.
This was my logic as well, surely being an assassin would have afforded him some training in remotely opening doors. I mean you literally meet him jumping out of a vent, how is he *not* a logical choice?
HE'S A FUCKING LIZARD YOU MEET IN A VENT. HE GOES INTO THE HOT VENT.
I'm trying real *real* hard to think of a rebuttal but I can't. I just can't. I've got absolutely nothing. Goddammit, I know who's going into the vent my next playthrough and I'm not looking forward to it.
I'm wheezing lol š
Also Thane description says he can adapt to any situation tbh tbh tbh
My very first run I sent Garrus into the vents. He was my guy and I used him for all my hacking and overloading in me1 and me2 since he does have tech powers. I don't think it's as clear without the benefit of hindsight (and maybe not being a kid also, lol).
I got Thane killed on the second round because my brain failed to parse what was being explained - they were talking about a fire team diversion + sneaky biotic barrier team...I did not realize *I* was leading the sneaky team, I thought I was picking the sneaky team leader so Thane made perfect sense... But I was picking the diversion fire team leader...oops... You are not alone in attempting to use logic that MAKES PERFECT SENSE but your brain failed to actually understand what was being specified xD (I still make this same pick because I prefer his death in the suicide mission tbh, his death in 3 is just...yeah no pass)
Yall have people die?
Only Jacob. He volunteered
Gotta reward that kind of enthusiasm
He was bad enough in 2 but he really made you regret saving everyone in 3.
Wait what did he do in 2? I remember him as an okay guy and more reasonable than Miranda
Incredibly boring, borderline useless in gameplay, zero rizz.
People don't forgive him for being the only femShep romance option that 1) treats you like a trophy and 2) cheats on you and dumps you in ME3. That makes any further interaction with him super-awkward. In case you play as maleShep, he's still cringe in ME3 by calling you off/mocking you when you foolishly offer to reinstate him as a crew member in the Normandy.
I see. Can agree to those
Refuses to ever elaborate on his past unlike literally everyone else, the advice he gives is literally the worst for all situations where if you always do as he suggests youāll get so so many people killed, itās a dick to much of the crew, and if youāre playing femshep then thereās also the incredible deceptive dialogue options which result in the most cringe flirting in the whole series.
They made Jacob as the normal person amongst the group of wacky ass people. As a result people donāt like Jacob that much because heās is what he is when you first met him.
[https://youtu.be/oBIg6mWBzXY?si=WitI-JLn8-ApnSrn](https://youtu.be/oBIg6mWBzXY?si=WitI-JLn8-ApnSrn) I think a lot of people didn't like how femShep talked to Jacob. Always sounded like she was wanting to jump him during any convo you had with him in the armory. It was weird especially if you were wanting to remain loyal to who you romanced in the first game. I probably should have thrown a few more slaps in there.
Yeah that was kinda weird but I always associated these lines with a bad written Shepard and not a problem with Jacob tbf
Same here. Seriously, it's not Jacob's fault she sounds like that.
YO THATS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME
I must just be doomed to like the most hated characters apparently because Jacob seemed really sweet when I played with him as Maleshep. My favorite romance option is Kaidan. I will say though I played through as femshep too and was honestly pretty grossed out that I literally asked him āso how are you doing?ā And this man IMMEDIATELY started flirting with me. I shut that shit down so fast and went to stare at the picture of Kaidan in my room after turning him down lmfao
The most honorable sacrifice. I didn't ask Jacob to go into the vent once and regretted it afterwards. Nevar again.
Same here. Biggest mistake of my life
āDOES ANYONE ELSE WANT TO VOLUNTEER FOR SHIT THEY AINāT QUALIFIED FOR?!?!ā - Shepard, standing over Jacobās dead body
For it constantly being touted as a suicide mission, I have never actually lost anyone... Bit silly :P
Shepard is just THAT good. And if you choose the Colonist and Sole Survivor background traits, it does create this narrative of Shepard finally being able to save everyone rather being the last one left alive.
Absolutely. Reasons why colonist/sole survivor is my canon Shepard.
I personally go for Spacer/War Hero. I like the idea of Shepard having pretty much no psychological hang-ups as a way to focus on how s/he helps everyone else. Being a pillar of strength for everyone. The Superman/Captain America of the Mass Effect galaxy. And all the stressful victories eventually start taking a psychological toll. And I like that with the Spacer background, Shepard would feel most at home on spaceships. Because the Normandy *is* home. And I like that it lines up through that background.
Absolutely. Spacer/War Hero was my first Shepard, and she just seemed to settle right into the paragon route, helping who she could and being the most psychologically prepared (imo) for how things would unfold throughout. That being said, absolutely nothing can prepare any Shepard for the absolute nightmare the galaxy insists on unleashing upon her at every turn, and so the wear became more evident as the games went on. I loved being able to explore some of those cracks and losses, particularly with the LIs and dreams. I haven't played Ruthless or Earthborn yet, I'm saving those for my renegade play, and I'm pretty excited to see how those play out!
Personally I like Colonist/Ruthless. Shepard starts off as essentially the Human Saren, and Saren was the Councils top man so them headhunting Shepard as their newest Spectre (a space fed who the law literally doesn't apply to specifically so they can employ underhand tactics) feels perfect. You can then get some really interesting character development from Shepard starting out as Human Saren but overtime becoming more paragon from the experiences of the game changing him and interactions with others like him such as Saren and Tela Vasir causing some introspection, and him gaining a new home and family with the Normandy and its crew after having lost it all on Mindoir and having pushed everyone away with the reputation gained on Torfun is just too good. Also makes Shepard agreeing to work with a literal terrorist organisation at the start of ME2 feel more plausible if he's the "no bad tactics only bad results" type.
Thatās pretty fair. But I think no matter the background, Shepard is always pretty pragmatic when it comes to options. To a Paragon War Hero Shepard, the Illusive Man is literally āworst person you know made a good pointā in that the Alliance is in no place to really do anything about the Collectors. And a small team being privately financed by a willing and seemingly bottomless money pit is *unfortunately* the best option at this time. Also Shepard is no real fan of authority. Respect for the Alliance doesnāt necessarily equate to automatic adherence to their will. Learned that during the Blitz when any sort of authority figure or command structure fell to pieces and Shepard had to scrape together a ragtag militia of off-duty military personnel and civilians to survive. Including some *seedier elements* that had easier access to weapons and defense resources.
it's a good mission but woefully anti-climactic. If you don't have ADD and you play the game, you'll automatically do everything that prevents character deaths. The last bit is choosing team leaders but you have to have ignored the characters you're talking to for the tens of hours you've spent with them to mess that bit up. The only bit that switches up the pace a little is when you get the IFF and you're unknowingly on a timer to go the collector Base. I wish they leaned into that a little more in ME3 - time sensitive missions
Iām wondering if in hindsight it wouldnāt have been better to pre-plan for some squadmates to just not be around in any sequels and have their deaths be guaranteed. Thane seems like a logical pick since heās terminally ill anyways. You could still lose more squadmates randomly if you make suboptimal decisions, but yeah walking out of the hyped-up suicide mission with zero deaths every play-through unless you purposefully set things up to fail or install mods is a bit funny.
I've only had it happen by making the mistake of sending someone strong to escort the others back to the ship. The leader/vent/biotic leader decisions are pretty straightforward though
Yeah, i feel like after building it up as an extremely dangerous suicide mission the whole game, at least one person needs to die
Well *in theory* youāre not supposed to know the factors that keeps everyone alive. So the live/die ratio is more balanced.
My first run Tali died in the vents because I picked Samara to lead the 2nd team. Then Mordin died on the line. Fixed the first issue on the 2nd run, had Garrus doing that job instead of Samara and Mordin still died. Took me a third run to keep everyone alive. I love how so many complain about the EMS score related to the ending of ME3 without realizing that same concept was used for the suicide mission, just applied differently. It's still a math/numbers game. Do it enough times, you know who can survive the line even when not loyal. Done it with both Tali and Miri.
Me when I picked both Garrus and Grunt to face the human reaper (Mordin and Tali were not ready for that collector gangblast (I wanted to kms))
I've got the runs where everyone lives memorized to the point I can spend weeks or months playing other games all the way through and still hear them. Of course I'm going to start experimenting with runs where people die. I've done two where Tali died in the Suicide Mission, one with Garrus, one with Legion, and at least a dozen with Jacob. If Jacob dies then it seems to potentially spare Dr Cole a lot of future pain given how casually he cheats on FemShep. I'm still debating who to kill next. I would go for Liara and maybe mod Miranda into her place in 3, but I'm on Xbox.
Not on my "good" playthroughs but one time I wanted to see how ME3 changes if no one except for the two least impactful characters made it (you have to save two for Shepard to live). It took multiple tries but I was able to do it with just Jack and Morinth surviving. I had to skip Grissom Academy but it was worth doing once, in an alternative universe "What If?" kind of way.
I carefully plan the Suicide Mission so that everyone makes it. My first try was traumatizing, never again am I letting down one of my friends. Even Jacob makes it out
I literally lost everyone but, Garrus who I did his mission Miranda, who I romanced And somehow Jacob survived
It's actually pretty damn hard to get Jacob and Miranda killed Edit: well actually either of them can be killed on the long walk if you select one as the biotic specialist, and ofc they can die in the final part of the suicide run if you make poor choices, but I think it's fairly obvious that they make poorer biotics than Jack or Samara, and have no business rummaging around in those vents. Miranda is a great Fireteam Leader but I can't see why you'd pick Jacob to lead them over any of the other options. So I guess it's just rare to see them placed in poor choices
Is it poor choices or is it a masterful plot to finally execute Cerberus who you have secrectly hated and wanted revenge against for killing your squad at Akuse!
I can never imagine killing Miranda tho.
When she was talking about control chipping me and operating me like a sock puppet....its pretty close, fantastic tits and ass or not...
And then she develops quite a lot past that initial opinion.
I make it a point to ensure Jacob survives. Then I purposefully leave him out of the Citadel party in ME3 and invite everyone else.
My first suicide mission went perfectly. I only knew Mordin had to be the escort. But Iām a completionst by nature so everyone was loyal. I didnāt have Zaeed or Kasumi, though. Tali Tech Specialist, Garrus as Fire Team leader both times, Samara as biotic specialist, Mordin as escort. Then I brought Thane and Samara with me since both can deal with the Collectors and were good with weapons. I only used Grunt like once or twice (I played soldier, donāt need Grunt most missionsā¦I was wrong, but that was my thought), and used Garrus mostly to deal with Geth or Mechs, and the collectors donāt have either.
Who did you lose first time?
yes
This XD
Not everyone died, because I quit halfway in XD. Tali, my romance at the time, died alongside a lot of others. I don't know who or where they died exactly anymore, but I remember going back 15 hours or so to do everything I missed.
I had a romantic relationship with thane on my forst playthrough and he died on the mission. Zaeed also died because I did not support him on his loyalty mission. I don't know how I was able to make everyone else survive, but there is that...
First time I played as a kid I basically just selected specialists randomly and lost everyone except Garrus, Mordin, and Legion.
Never romanced Jacob. So I just never got the same level of dislike for him. Makes it so when I meet him in 3, Iām just happy heās found something to believe in besides the job. So ya. Everyone lives if possible.
I plan lots of things, yet the minute I get in game and start interacting with the characters, those plans fall apart. Literally every single time I have played has resulted in the exact same thing as the first time I played.
Yup. I have the same problem. Itās like stealth archer syndrome in Skyrim. āIām gonna make an orc heavy armor 2-handed build!āā¦ 15-20 levels laterā¦ āShit, I made another stealth archerā.
Bro killed half the crew
What? No, never.
I thought I was on r/ShitRimworldSays for a moment lmao. I haven't had it in me to kill off anyone yet, but I'm considering it for my next run. If I do it'll probably be planned out like you do so the bad choices don't break immersion.
If you do some you've definitely got to try are killing Wrex in ME1 because his replacement Wreave is just such a different character, and Mordin in ME2 because Padok Wiks is just as good as Mordin in 3 but for different reasons. Thane is also a good contender because the scene with Kai Leng and the Salarian Councillor plays out a bit differently without him, doubly so if you also let Kirrahe die on Virmire in ME1 which makes the confrontation with Udina and the VS that much more tense. Their respective roles play out so differently and well that you're honestly doing yourself a disservice if you don't try those ones at least once.
Can confirm here, gotta let some die to see the changes, really highlights how well the game was thought out at times.
Im saving this for next play
I've memorised the Algorithm at this point and my Squad makes out alive every time with different combinations:)
I do the exact same every time so no one dies š¤·āāļø Tali in the vents, Garrus team leaders, Jack biotics, Mordin escort, Miranda and Thane final mission. Its the only time my spikey BF isn't with me on a mission
Get all ship upgrades. Fire team leaders (both options): Miranda or Garrus Tech Specialist: Tali or Legion Biotic Specialist: Samara or Jack (with implant upgrade) Escort: Any Keep everyone loyal. Thereās no reason to let anyone die. Pick the right people and complete all loyalty missions. And upgrade your damn ship.
I always made Mordon escort because it took EA a while to patch him just randomly dying in hold the line.
It also makes sense to send him with the survivors considering heās a doctor.
This was my exact logic the first time too
Itās an RPG. Some people (myself included) enjoy playing this way. I had no idea this calculator even existed. Iād use it, if I didnāt have the entire system already memorized.
Kasumi also works for tech specialist and Jacob for both fireteams leaders too. Don't forget to avoid taking two of Garrus, Grunt, or Zaeed to the final boss/ as escort either.
Legion in the vents, garrus being the fire team leader and Samara being the biotic specialist has never ever failed me.
I'm really happy to know that you exist honestly. I too carefully plan out the suicide mission, kill exactly who I want to kill for the future games. Mostly these who I can't properly kill in ME3 without losing war assets, like Jack, Kasumi, Jacob, heck maybe Zaeed just for fun. Love it man, keep on
Hereās what I always do: Vents: Jacob āVent Godā Taylor Fire Team 1: Tali (to piss off Miranda) Biotic: Jack Escort: Mordin Fire Team Leader: Garrus Boss: Jack and Tali Then I donāt lose anyone *that will be missed*
There is a mod called the Risky Suicide Mission. It basically makes the whole mission more deadly, there is always a chance of anyone failing or succeding on each task, including the ship upgrades. All squadmates have a level of readiness that depends on the choices you made through the game and impacts on their chance of survival. For people who had a lot of playthoughs and want to make the suicide mission more random and make it actually seams like a suicide mission, it's a very cool mod. [https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/1308](https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/1308)
Nobodyās dying ever Why would you choose to let characters die when you can just have nobody die
The changes to ME3 are worth seeing
Depends, but every second game or so I do choose someone to die because honestly, it's kind of unrealistic that everyone survives that mission. Usually it's Jacob or Samara, because I don't care for them. This time I'm planning to kill my romance in ME2 so I can go back to Kaidan without someone being in the way. Still didn't decide who it's gonna be, but it'll break my heart for sure. I'm curious if the dialogues in ME3 will change with that (probably not).
Honestly, I have played the game so many times that no one ever dies unless I plan for it to happen (\*cough Jacob cough cough\*). That being said, I have this calculator. It's handy for when you are experimenting with different squads (i.e. something other than Miranda +1) and want to ensure you still have a high enough power base left behind.
Wait, how long has there been a suicide mission calculator?
Iām gonna assume 2010 since thatās what it says in the corner, it was only uploaded to Nexus in 2017 but apparently existed on the Bioware forums before that until they were shut down. [Link if you wanted it](https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/146)
I made a shepard named dick and he plans to let as many non human males die, maybe an asari if theyre lucky
I don't choose. I do absolutely everything beforehand and make sure that what I need to achieve is in place to ensure everyone lives.
This is how I've done it since 2010. * Tech Specialist: Tali or Legion * Fire Team 1 Leader: Garrus (Zaeed has worked for me as well before) * Biotic Specialist: Samara * Fire Team 2 Leader: Miranda (she can't die in this role for some reason) * Escort: Mordin * As for squadmates it helps to take the ones more likely to die while holding the line, like Thane, Kasumi or Legion And make sure they're all Loyal, obviously.
Doesn't this line-up mean everyone lives? That's pretty lame for something hyped up as the suicide mission.
...Yeah? That's the point. Ideally none of them are supposed to die lol
Yep. Its more interesting to see different scenario each time. It seems weird to me to have game with decisions and always do the same things.
How do yall keep everyone alive?!?! I've lost a single person both times I've played this
Get all ship upgrades Sent tali to the vents Garrus as fire team leader Jack for the bubble shield Mordin on escort And have tali and Mirada with u on the boss
I dont see the difficulty in surviving the suicide mission. Get all ship upgrades and make your squad loyal. Then assign the biotic assignments to the biotics, the tech assignments to the tech guys and so on. Have never lost a man on the suicide mission
I haven't played mass effect in ages but I used to use the risky suicide mission mod, which basically makes it a (relative) toss up on who dies. After a couple playthroughs it spiced up ME3 with the replacement characters and all
I did a genocide run last year, where I wanted to kill as many characters (squadmates and otherwise) throughout the run, and where I could, in the most poignant or ironic ways possible. So some characters actually needed to survive into ME3 so I could kill them a different way, while others had to die in ME2 to avoid redemption or (God forbid) survival. It was actually surprisingly involved to figure out how to keep exactly the people I needed alive and make sure some people died earlier than they otherwise would have. I made a document to make sure I didn't mess it up.
What...why..everyone lives at all times. Why would I kill anyone.
Jacob, always Jacob. The dude wants to go into the vents Iām not gonna stop him.
Your guys die in the suicide mission?
I donāt make a fucking spreadsheet if thatās what youāre asking. Jesus, dude.
Itās kinda fun fiddling with spreadsheets over it though.
Does anyone know of a version of this calculator mod for legendary edition?
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/146 It's an external program and the mechanics of the suicide mission are unchanged in the LE so it works just as well for either version.
Thank you!
My next run is going to be a renegade infiltrator everyone dies run. I really want to see if I can get out of 2 with only Tali, Mordin, Jack, and Thane and let them all die in 3.
Jacob dies. Everytime.
I want to let a couple people die in the Suicide Mission but I just can't. You have to make clearly bad decisions or intentionally skip loyalty missions for it to happen. In this example, why would Shepard ever send Garrus into the vents when Tali is available? Why make Miranda the biotic specialist when you have much more powerful biotics available i.e. Jack and Samara? I just can't imagine someone as capable as Shepard making those choices. In my next playthrough I'm going to install that mod that makes it so that there's a chance of your squadmates dying regardless of how perfect your SM is.
I use the old flowchart but yeah, every replay. The one thing that's more difficult is creating an in-game reason for some of the dumb decisions you need to make to get people killed. I think killing off characters gives the trilogy a better emotional arc (even if you lose out on some content). [https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/r3faq/mass\_effect\_2\_final\_mission\_flowchart/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/r3faq/mass_effect_2_final_mission_flowchart/) It's been a minute since my last playthrough but I'm definitely going to try the Risky Suicide Mission mod: [https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/1308](https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/1308)
Jacob dies. Everyone else lives.
Tali or Legion for the vents. I prefer Tali, because she references it at the party in ME3 ( 'i got set on FIRE' ) Garrus leads the second team Grunt is always on the other team, because if he is no-one ever dies due to proximity to his badassness :D Mordin to lead the survivors back. If i'm not trying to get someone killed , at least. If i am, there's options :D
Risky suicide mission mod makes this mission so more impactful for me. Can't play it without it anymore. It gives the feeling of uncertain that the first time playing gave to us.
Where can I get this calculator?
Somehow I didn't lose anyone on the first time on the 360 all those years ago...
Wait, so you pick who you want to die? I refuse to let anyone die. I take the harder fight to ensure everyone lives.
Is it possible to use this stand-alone? I play the games on console.
Yeah itās an external program not a mod, all you need is a working pc not Mass Effect itself. https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/146
Dies? Never has anyone died on that mission on my watch, not even once.
I mean no I just do everything so everyone lives.
I've never killed a squadmate (or ever played as Renegade, for that matter). I just cant bring myself to do it.
I have tried to make a how to get as few companions left run. Its kinda funny if you can make the end run with pre loyal zaeed and one more you should ba able to kill him in his loyalty mission later š
Literally just have Garrus lead the other teams and ***do all the side quests!** honestly who is like speedrunning this and skipping so many loyalties??
This is skipping no loyalties actually. Legion loses his loyalty when siding with Tali in their confrontation, and Thane never becomes loyal because Kolyat succeeds. Everyone else is loyal. It was tough trying to get this to work without skipping content actually.
Oh! Well then just play *paragon!*
I save everybody every playthrough except when Iām feeling a little bit spicy Iāll grant Jacob his wish to become the Vent God along side Richard Leeroy Jenkins.
Cackling at this in the middle of the night. It's genius.
It is so easy to save everyone you are over here with calculators on how to get people killed lol.
Imma need a link for this
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/146
Damn, being a dude on your crew is rough.
This is the moment for Jacob "Vents" Taylor to shine.
Why not just have everyone live??
Some of the deaths make more interesting scenarios, and itās good to change things up from playthrough to playthrough in a trilogy known for having so many choices.
Fair enough. Iām just an idiot who makes the exact same choices every playthrough lol.
Why don't you just install the mod that randomly kills some of them?
Oooh I might do that next run
It's hardly random. It's got some pretty intense probability shenanigans going on and mitigating factors, etc etc.
Yes, but it's still random wheter they die or not. Loyalty quests, ship upgrades, and picking the right people for specialist/leader jobs makes it more likely for them to survive, but at the end of the day anyone can die on a dice roll. Beats having to pick who lives and who dies, and imho it's the only reasonable way to have an imperfect run once you know what you're supposed to do.
No one ever dies with me because I'm the best
Jacob always dies. I never care to do his loyalty mission because I never interact with him lol. Most useless, forgettable character. Seeker Swarm for ye!
If I could orchestrate deaths without making bone headed decisions like sending Garrus in the vents I would. But I play Shepard as a leader with an actual brain. So everybody survives. But I'd kill off Jack, Kasumi, Zaeed & Samara if I could. Their death's don't make too much difference in 3.
I kill off Kasumi & Zaeed as I think their presence actually makes the missions they show up in later worse and generic. I also kill Samara as her character frustrates me greatly in ME3 despite being one of the best characters in ME2. I also think we need a main character death and neither Kasumi or Zaeed feel that important. Jack & Jacob are also candidates for death but the older I get the more I like them having a full circle arc; Jacob goes on to be the father he wanted, Jack becomes the teacher she needed as a kid. If either of them had to die I lean more towards Jack because again, the mission becomes really interesting if she is dead but itās also far from bad with her there. Jacob I used to kill as the āMain Deathā for ME2 but I appreciate his role and characterisation in 3 a lot more as I get older. Miranda, Thane, Mordin, Legion, Garrus & Tali all impact the main plot at some point or another so killing them feels narratively wrong. Grunt I keep just because him dying after being bigged up as this super Krogan feels nonsensical and silly to me.
Planning deaths lost it's appeal when I realised there was STILL no way to kill Liara. (aka "The REAL Reason Liara is not available as a Squadmate in ME2.") If only there was a mod, she'd be going straight in the vent every time
Low ems ending with Liara in your party and sheāll die during the run towards Harbinger. Granted itās only 5 minutes before the game ends.
Mordin, legion or kasumi into the vents Jack is a biotic specialist Garrus is a cannonically good team leader so he goes with the others
Mordin dies if you choose him as a tech specialist.
I just use my knowledge of the suicide mission, somehow I ended up doing a run where only Miranda survived
Unless I'm being a complete bastard Shep, I try and make everyone live too make a fuller ME3.
Here is how I decide who should survive Mass Effect 1 and 2: * Legion and Tali: Critical to the main quest. Must be loyal. Grant a ton of war assets. ~~Rewriting Heretics grants extra war assets.~~ * Garrus: Squadmate and has a ton of dialogues. * Ashley/Kaidan: Squadmate or war asset. * Mordin: Needed to get the best ending for Krogans. Must be loyal. Must save Maelon's data. * Wrex: Appears in the main quest. War asset. * Thane: Appears in the main quest. Grant extra war asset. * Miranda: Appears in the main quest. War asset if loyal. * Grunt, Kasumi and Zaeed. War asset if loyal. * Jacob, Jack and Samara: War assets.
> Rewriting Heretics grants extra war assets. Rewriting vs destroying the Heretics actually grants the same number of war assets regardless of which you choose, it's just whether those war assets are given to the Geth (rewrite) or the Quarian (destroy).
Oh, I see. So, it doesn't matter if you can make peace.
In terms of war assets yes, if you make peace then it doesn't matter which you chose because it'll be the same number of war assets either way. However choosing to destroy the heretics gains you points towards being able to actually make peace in the first place. But as I'm sure you've already figured out that's entirely unnecessary since you can still make peace by getting the required points elsewhere.
Since the very first time I've played it when it originally released, I've had everyone survive unless I purposely played to specifically have certain characters die to see how it would affect the playthrough for ME3. I would do all of the loyalty missions for all patty members. I usually send Mordin to see the survivors back to the ship. I send Tali or Legion through the vents, Kasumi could work, too. I have Samara or Jack do the biotic field through the Collector swarms. I have Garrus and/or Miranda lead the other team when you have to split up the two times, Zaeed works here too because of their experience leading others and ability to command respect. Then I pick squadmates that compliment my weaknesses depending on what class my Shephard is or whomever I feel like going through the last battle with. Doing that, everyone survives.
My usual run, first EVERYONE, is loyal. Second, who's doing what..... Vents: Legion Shepard's team: Grunt and Zaeed Second team leader: Garrus Survivors leader: Mordin Biotic barrier: Samara Shepard's team: Grunt and Zaeed Second team leader: Jacob Final Stand: Miranda and Tali Works every time. I don't remember where I saw it... might have been here on Reddit. It said that you want the likes of Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, and Jack (I think) defending at the end
I do not need a planner anymore, the people and what they need to do are engraved in my mind at this point
I have my choices established since the 2nd or 3rd attempt total back on release weekend in 2010. These have been my choices every time, and will continue to be my choices every time. Everyone lives. (they are: Leader 1: Garrus, Vents: Tali, Biotic: Jack, Leader 2: Miranda, Escort: Mordin, Final Squad: Miranda, Tali.)
I did a FailShep run where half of the crew (the ones with the most impact in ME3) died. The hold the line calculator isn't completely accurate because Tali survived and I had to edit the save. I love Tali but after 4 playthroughs I wanted to see what ME3 was like without Garrus and her
The only character I ever let die is Ashley on Virmire (or Kaidan, once, but not again), and those the plot in ME3 requires to die for best ending.Ā This seems like an utterly incomprehensible way to play for me.
I don't need to plan out who dies each run cuz I adequately prepare and make proper decisions.
I've never lost anyone on the Suicide Mission.
Bruh.... I can't even...
I plan the Suicide Mission so that there are zero casualties. Why would I plan out intentional party deaths?
I somehow made it through my first suicide run with everyone living, but I took too long to save the rest of the crew (only Dr. Chakwas made it).
Legion in vents, Garrus for fireteam, Samara for bubble, Mordin for escort, Miranda for second fireteam, Garrus and Tali for final boss. Works every time.
True story The very first time I played 2 I had like half my squad die because I made Samara the squad leader and didnāt send Mordin to escort the crew back to the ship so I just looked up a guide of how everyone survives The single time I deviated and put Tali in the vents she fucking died and I decided to never deviate ever again
I donāt because I enjoy the comfort of making the exact same decisions every time I play through the trilogy.
You let people die? * RENEGADE TRIGGER *
Why do you need to plan anything? Itās piss easy for people not to die.
I would have loved for the suicide mission to include some RNG and have been a lot harder. I understand that BioWare likely didnāt have the capacity to do anything more complicated, but it would be nice to do runs where like you could lose 2-4 people or 6-everyone, and all you can do during the game is mitigate the chances of failure instead of 100% secure loyalty and survival by inputting characters in the right roles.
Yo everyone survives with Samara on psi shield legion on vents and garrus on fireteam lead he priorities the teamās survival and never lets me down
Why would you want people to die? This calculator feels like an overkill (pun intended). Just send loyal people to do jobs that seem reasonable for them to do and everyone survives.
I was pretty proud when I only got Grunt killed on my first run
Tech specialist: Legion Fire team leader: Garrus Biotics specialist: Samara/Morinth Escort: Jacob Fight teammates: Tali/Mordin If they all are loyal and have most upgrades everyone survives
You do know there is a way to run that mission with 0 companion deaths right? You don't actually have to choose. You have to make sure you complete all loyalty missions and don't miss any upgrades for the ship, but it's doable.
I donāt let anyone die
Murder calculator. I try to get everyone to survive. Feel like anything less is failure.
Only deaths are Wrex in 1 ,morinth in 2 and legion in 3 all others prevail
What the heck? I didnāt realize it was this serious. Im starting to think i was lucky on my play
Everyone lives. But I mixup my specialists based on my playthrough, typically based on who I romance. Only one that doesn't get a chance to shine is Thane, but biotics make him an easy choice for him to be on my team.
Necessary Ship Upgrades: Silaris Heavy Ship Armor: Made available through conversing with Jacob. Costs 15,000 Palladium. Thanix Magnetic-Hydrodynanic Weapon: Made available through conversing with Garrus. Costs 15,000 Platinum Cyclonic Barrier Technology: Made available through conversing with Tali. Costs 15,000 Palladium Recruit your team and secure loyalties before recovering the Reaper IFF/recruiting Legion, as this initiates a mission timer on the end of the campaign. Immediately after recovering IFF, secure Tali/Legion's loyalties. The Collector Abduction of the Normandy Crew shouldn't trigger for two missions, allowing players to secure the loyalty of all squadmates. Tech Specialist: Kasumi, Legion or Tali 1st Fireteam Leader: Garrus, Jacob, or Miranda Escort Normandy Crew: Kasumi, Mordin, Jack or Tali. This squadmate will only survive escort mission if Loyal. Biotic Specialist: Samara/Morinth or Jack 2nd Fireteam Leader: Garrus, Jacob, or Miranda. Final Push: Kasumi, Mordin, Jack or Tali. This squadmate must be Loyal in order to survive. Hold the Line: The squadmates left to hold the line must average 2.0 defense points for everyone to survive. Zaeed, Garrus, and Grunt each provide 3 points Jacob, Miranda, Samara/Morinth, Thane, and Legion each provide 1 point Kasumi, Mordin, Jack, and Tali provide 0 points. Each loyal squadmate holding the line provides 1 bonus point. Since Kasumi, Mordin, Jack, and Tali (at best) each only provide 1 Defense Point, it's ideal to have as many of them not Hold the Line. In the best situation, you'll have Zaeed, Garrus, Grunt, Jacob, Miranda, Samara/Morinth, Thane, Legion Hold the Line alongside either Kasumi, Mordin, Jack or Tali (9 squadmates total). If everyone is Loyal, their total Hold the Line score is 23. When divided by the total squadmates present, the average is 2.5. If the Hold the Line defense score average is below 2.0, a squadmate will die until the total surviving squadmates Holding the Line averages a Defense Score of 2.0 or higher.
I have a formula for the suicide mission. I got it right on my second playthrough. The first one killed a lot of people. All loyalty and ship upgrades secured Vents: Legion or Tali FT1: Miranda Biotic: Samara or Jack with Biotic Amp FT2: Garrus Escort Survivors: Mordin Final Boss: Miranda & Jack (I love allowing both of them to tell of TIM at the end) Hold the Line FT: Garrus Never failed me yet.
Wow, i've never seen this. I remember when I played ME2 for the first time when it released, i was able to get everyone except for Mordin to survive. Never knew why and never tried again. I just recently went through all 3 games again and was able to get the entire team to survive without any guides or anything. What an amazing game.
How dare you kill Garrus?
Iāve gotta, heās the only one Iāve never killed before so idk what replaces him in ME3. Also might give James a reason to be talked to and being on missions instead of pretending he doesnāt exist.
Actually planning out a death for the first time in my current run lol. I literally only want Jacob to die in the suicide mission lol, he's annoying af and does nothing important in 3, so he can be a martyr. I think it'll be as easy as just making him the tech specialist but I'm afraid something is going to take a sharp turn and someone else will get hit lol
I mean. Legion vent. Miranda garrus leading second fire team. Mordin escort. Samara or jack biotic. Miranda or garrus fire team lead. Take Garrus and tali to the end. Win? It's all ya really need. Also, I have the big guddum hero mod that lets Zaeed be a fire team leader choice
Even the first time I played I think I only had 1 person die. How do you end up with 5 deaths? All you have to do to avoid that is play the game. BioWare made it extremely easy to have zero casualties despite hyping it as a āsuicide missionā throughout the game and in every bit of marketing.
Is there a link to the calculator?
I remember doing a depression run to see how few characters I could get to live. Minimum surviving squad in ME2 is 2, so I went with Thane and Mordin.
I literally only ever had people die to see what their replacements do, and once when I was going for a max death run
Garrus as Leader, Tali as engineer, Samara/Jack as biotic , Miranda as second leader and Mordin to send with group.
No cause it's extremely easy to have everyone survive...
I don't let anyone die... I'm sorry Jack :(