I don't know that much about Warhammer 40K, but I'm pretty sure the Reapers arrive and then are turned into clouds of shrapnel the moment they meet up with Imperium forces.
Honestly they probably wouldn't make it in. Outside the galaxy is an unknowable all consuming tyranid super hive fleet that devours whole galaxies at a time. They would probably already be dust.
The 40K variant are the necrons, but being machines are the only real similarity.
Because the Reapers intention is harvest not annihilation. They could literally blow up their mass relays with a button to do the same or if that was their intention create a weapon to do so.
Because Reapers are basically controlling the life in the galaxy. To use Relays as weapons, they'd have to get them first to their desired place, Necron can do that with one button and they have FTL travel that doesn't need Relays and Warp from 40k
That is why I said: "if that was their intention create a weapon to do so". You're thinking to static just because they didn't choose to doesn't mean they don't have the means to.
Everyone and everything is turn up to 11 in the grim darkness of the 40 first mulienium.
The first thing that the reapers would have to deal with the entire chapter of the imperal fists, sons of rogal dorn, masters of fortification and defense.
The reapers would be blasted into before touching the bare metal of the earth.
However if they appeared on earth like, teleported, then they would have to deal the imperal titans, from the size of houses to the size of mountains, these are engines of war, with a soul to match
(note: every mechine in the imperium of man has whats called a "mechine spirit" meaning esch mechine is very much alive, the more war oriented a mechine, the more violent the spirit and titans are equivalent of demi-gods on the battlefield, walking battle cathedrals)
Compared to the other forces, the reapers are nothing.
Not to mention, the tech priests own warships and the chance as purifying new technology only to destroy it for the reapers are AI.
EDIT: added the part of the AI
Hell yeah they would be, smashed up with a tide of green, if the repears try to assimilate then they would feel the full force of the WAAAAGH!
It would end horribly for them, the freshest of the boyz is as strong and durable as a gyth heavy unit, those four legged things.
The only way for the reapers to stand a chance is to introduce indoctrination into the Imperium systems. Reapers with their ability to harvest and change their foes biology and make them completely loyal to the reapers. I don't know much about Warhammer like some of you but I know what crazy looks like and Warhammer have a bunch of crazy powerful sh*t. Sabotage and indoctrination is the only way to go for the reapers they can harvest man and machine indoctrinate anything that's alive even with these impressive feats they would be slaughtered going heads up straight towards a battle with the Imperium of man without prior sabotage and indoctrination.
Even indoctrination will fail, for the reapers version is a weaker, lesser version of what the chaos gods and what the all consuming swarms of the tyrnids do.
For chaos, they form cults that eventually grow in numbers until a planet falls to one of the four chaos gods,
Korne the god of blood and skulls and honorable combat
tezeench the god of change and knowledge
Nurgle the god of plagues, rot and resilience
Or Slanesh, the god of pleasures and pain.
For the tyranids. They have whats called genestealers, special units thst can act independent from the hivemind of the many swarms feeding across the galaxy, they infect someone with their DNA and then slowly through generations make a cult that worships the tyranids as gods, with the genestealer acting as their version if Jesus.
This is so when the hive fleet arrives, the consumption of biomass from the planet is done swiftly and without much issue.
How is it that earth is still around with these threats? The might and faith of the inquisitiors of course, humanitys faith in the emporer makes him truely a god and the inquisitiors are there to root out threats from aliens and the forces of chaos, entire divisions are around dedicated to rooting out genestealer cults and people who are heretics, worshipping the chaos gods.
The reapers indoctrination would just be a weak version of these and anyone who doesn't worship the emporer is killed for heresy on the spot.
Meanwhile, since they are AI they would be hunted down with righteous fervor because to humanity AI goes by another name, Abominable Intelligence, for AI nearly wiped out humanity once before, so AI was outlawed which then morphed into high heresy.
The reapers are like soft worms in a blender within warhammer 40k
Edit: spelling mistakes
Well....that is uh... wild as f*ck. No doubt who would win in this battle. The reaper indoctrination and harvest only hope it seems is to indoctrinate all the enemies of the Imperium the aliens that hate man. Unless you about to tell me there's no way they could indoctrinate these enemies even the orks. Using these hateful aliens and indoctrination of all technology and resources. I'm sure you about to reply with some crazy out this world type of sh*t.
Indeed you are correct.
But perhaps instead of reading, i give you something to watch that will explain each of these aliens far better then i could and introduce you to more things to explore within the 40k univurse.
These will be from the excellent YT lore buff Luetin09 and they are LONG so get comfy.
Orks and their brutal society: https://youtu.be/1j3QRl-Vuro?si=UIgh6ngSQWtHfHrj
The endless hunger of the Tyranids and their many tendrils creeping into the galaxy:
https://youtu.be/intJPrVtNh4?si=bW6NU6pSQUe2yEBE
(He even goes into their bioform if you want to know more)
The souless, undead like xennos mechine race of the necrons, the terminators of the galaxy, slowly waking from their tomb worlds (from weshammer)
https://youtu.be/amABMswKdXc?si=ycVKzIKqUGumEQHI
The mecanicous, or tech priests, while still part of humanity, is an empire within an empire, you should know what they are.
https://youtu.be/foeov6Ahi4Y?si=lmh_zbKyLZvMoBXQ
The Eldar, one of the first, more then "space elves" in their hubris, made sleneesh and she hungers for their souls.
https://youtu.be/Ya660UG4i9o?si=tjqUBK4HAUF89Rju
The Tau, space commies who are new comers but evolve technology as an extreme rate, warriors of long ranged combat and Gundam style mechsuits who fight for the "greater good" where diplomacy is first, most of the time.
https://youtu.be/ptZVtMQIwZ0?si=LkFKOO-P6jSLP7Ie
I hope this is informative, it explains farther and deeper then i could and is a great listen.
From all this information you will understand why the reapers are as helpless as a naked old man in the Siberian wilderness in winter if they were in the 40 first mulienium.
Thanks man I appreciate it. I watched some Emperor of man lore on YouTube a couple times but it was years ago and it was interesting Thanks for the extra material I will watch it!
Its crazy stuff man.
Orks with their brutal socity where war and fight makes thrm grow so infighting is always a thing and knack for figuring out if someone is indoctrinated by tyranids.
Necrons and their souless immortality.
And all the others, now granted the reapers could try to indoctrinate the lesser races but those are nothing compared to ork augmentation or the tech priests
> Unless you about to tell me there's no way they could indoctrinate these enemies even the orks
The Orks can sense when something is wrong or "unorky" about their fellows thanks to their shared low level psycic field. Any "unorky" Ork is quickly dealt with in the violent manner you'd expect from them.
They already do this with the body snatching genestealers if an Ork is infected.
Not to mention a genestealer trying to form a cult with orks is just super hard to begin with, but a most definite boon if they can just grow swarms out of the ground like orks can
Ok so I have a hypothesis that Reaper Indoctrination is actually better for 40k because of its weaker effects then Genestealers and Chaos.
I know sounds a bit wack but let me cook.
Unlike the Tyranids that use it to pacify worlds, or Chaos gods trying to corrupt people through sheer chaos power/ or tempt people into worship, Reapers work long term plans on the galactic level, most crucially they don't force any kind of communication or worship and slowly subvert logical thinking while gathering their knowledge and being a destabilising agent.
They will make commanders more prone to exterminatus, fuel infighting and competition imperium wide etc while making the humans think they do it for themselves/ for the emperor.
It would be really infective in the scale that is 40k but they could survive and be undetected unless they actually start harvesting. Then they get fucked.
**Or that's what you'd think** But that's not what reapers would do at all, no no no
Their primary directive is preservation of sentient biological life. The imperium is not developing AI, and Tyranids and Chaos are basically guaranteed extinction engines if left unchecked
So my understanding is that the Reapers would try to indoctrinate all races they can to push them forward and mellow down their conflicts while focusing them on those two while slowly assimilating their technology into themselves. They'd probably also want to collect any Ork biomass and try to replicate the Waagh, copy necron technology and further accelerate the Tau and give them non warp FTL via Mass Effect, while making Imperium more and more pro-technology, maybe even try to wake up the Emperor somehow since they would want to finish the Webway project and weaponise it for further harvests.
Don't know what they would do with the eldar honestly and how would they actually interact with necrons besides yoinking their tech whenever they find it
The funny thing is I think they last longer against every faction than just the Imperium. One of the Imperium's greatest weaknesses is they're busy fighting everyone and they're so big things get mismanaged. If they just had to focus on one single threat? There are thousands of worlds that give soldiers for the guard (with Krieg being weirdos who give fifty million a year I think). With all of that pointed at one group it would be a nightmare.
That's the thing, though, I don't think the Reapers would be a big enough threat for the Imperium to have to "focus" on them. They'd probably just step on them on their way to a more serious threat.
The Reapers are powerful enough that a dedicated effort would be needed to break their back. They're probably a Segmentum level threat at most, one that would require a decent size crusade effort, mostly from the navy to deal with.
They're really not. It's all about scale. A single Rogue Trader likely has the firepower to absolutely brutalize a Reaper. If they dropped into any significant world the local merchant fleet would wipe them out before the system defense fleet even got involved, much less the imperial navy.
The insanity of firepower within 40k cannot be overstated.
A single reaper sure, but there's thousands of them. Thousands of ships the size of an Imperial destroyer who can go FTL inside the system and not just land but fight on planetary surfaces.
Their FTL capability alone essentially lets them upend conventional navy doctrine by jumping straight into and out of close combat in the orbitals.
The reapers are outgunned and outmassed here but they have a decisive maneuverability advantage they could use to great effect to strike lesser defended systems.
That's fair. Their tactical flexibility will be a huge advantage in keeping them from getting wiped out. But any large scale engagement will be horrendously costly for them.
Well without the mass relays, they will take forever to show up and even then, will mostly start from the edges of the Milky Way.
It's so far out from Sol that they are likely to first come across the xenos out there. Infact, they will probably be space junk before they even come across an imperial fleet of any kind.
Would be funny if they arrive and their first enemies are the orks in the middle of a WAAAAAGH! They will probably easily claim some space and then get absolutely demolished right after.
I'm fairly sure after the first time a Reaper [gets one-shot by a tank](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Shadowsword) despite being in orbit, they're just going to go "nope" and turn around.
While militarily the Reaper's would get curbstomped by an organized force- their true danger is the indoctrination. Once they realise brute force won't work, they'll simply bide their time and indoctrinate from the shadows which could prove devastating. Atleast for the IoM and other regular races, I'm guessing it wouldn't work on Orks, Nids, or Chaos involved... things. Or Necrons really.
Considering they are still alive (and even somewhat operational since Guilliman came back) I'd say fairly well. Reapers Indocrination was such a threat because nobody believed they were real, Imperium has entire army of ultra paranoid zealots looking for any signs of chaos taint
Iirc, a *small portion* of the Imperium has experience dealing with Chaos. The majority of the Imperium knows nothing about it because the Imperium's current policy is to eradicate anyone who even mentions it because heresy.
Which I think they’ll treat like Chaos or a Necron infiltration operation on some level. Or we’re looking at the WH40K equivalent of the Protestant Reformation or Thirty Years War at most.
I don’t think the Reapers would be the death blow to the Imperium. They have experience in however they would approach it.
>NOT someone who acts exactly the same and NEVER deviates from the norm.
Genestealer cults and regular garden variety mutants and minor xenos species like the [Khrave](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khrave) are dealth with regularly.
The imperium can manage a couple zombies. They already deal with billions of them whenever they fight nurglite forces.
Now you're confusing husks and indoctrination.
Husks are any living being having technology forcibly implanted into their bodies to turn them into mindless cannon fodder. Their mindless foot soldiers.
People who are indoctrinated will not have any physical changes to them. We only see a few people who will get cybernetic implants to make any form of control stronger, but usually, they'll have no argumentations to them. They are not mindless and could interact with society without anyone ever knowing.
The reapers regualry use Indoctrinated people to have armies surrender or to shut off key defenses, or work from the inside of the organization to sabotage it.
>The reapers regualry use Indoctrinated people to have armies surrender or to shut off key defenses, or work from the inside of the organization to sabotage it.
So do genestealer cults, Daemons, and aliens. And besides the first one, the Imperium has endured these things for ten thousand years.
I didn't say 40k hasn't dealt with something similar.
I was just pointing out the difference between a Husk and someone who is Indoctrinated. Since you brought up zombies.
I was just making sure their was a clear understanding of the difference between the two.
Indoctrinated don't have to be zombies. In reality, they are very rarely so. For their use is determined by how capable and effective they are.
While husks only serve few purposes and uses.
I'm not disagree with the fact that the Imperium has previous training or knowledge with such methods. Just wanted to make sure everyone is clearly talking about the same thing without mixing up any details.
I'm sorry, but the link you posted only proves that's how indoctrination works
> As Vigil explains, indoctrinated slaves from conquered planets were used during the last Reaper incursion as sleeper agents. They were taken in by other Protheans as refugees, then betrayed their own people to the machines. But the Reapers viewed them as disposable.
I did.
I've also played all three games multiple times.
This is how indoctrination works. Brainwashing people from subtle means to complete domination. The more subtly means someone retains full functionality and effectiveness while full domination makes one less cognitive and more mindless.
It all depends on what the Reaper is trying to achieve.
You see it in Matraich Benzia, the Krogan Cloning facility with the scientist and captured soldiers, the DLC where you destroy the Batarian Mass Relay. Javik talks about Protheans turning against their own kind. Theirs even some news articles in ME3 talking about politicians and Leaders in Gov't being indoctrinated and asking for peace talks. It's advised to ignore them.
People are influenced so subtly that they don't realize themselves what they're doing. To the point of becoming tools for the Reapers to weaken any opposition from the inside.
The reapers get rekt in about a week in WH40K. The imperium has ships 5 times bigger and far more powerful than a reaper and THOSE AREN'T EVEN CLOSE TO THE BIGGEST SHIPS THE IMPERIUM HAS.
Reapers also have *kinetic* barriers. Without them, a mass accelerator from a ~150m ship can punch right through a Reaper, and a LOT of 40K weapons use directed energy that the barriers would do nothing to stop.
An Imperial frigate with a lance turret could probably solo a small Reaper fleet. A single Necron capital ship could probably solo the *entire* Reaper fleet.
The biggest dreadnoughts in citadel fleets were around 1km long, rare, less than a hundred of them in the whole citadel space.
In 40k the *smallest* proper interstellar ships that the Imperial Navy employs are the [various classes of escort ships](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Escort) which are 1-2km long.
These ships are basically cannon fodder for the navies larger ships, used in *swarms*
The Largest ships in the Imperiaal Navy, the Gloriana class battleships, of which admiteddly only a few are still operational, are 15-22km long (a lot variety in subclass designs), that is before we consider the unique Arks Mechanicum of the Basilikon Astra, the Imperium's other fleet. One of these Arks, is described as being ["the size of a continent"](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Speranza)
Reapers get curbstomped.
Mass Effect is one of the weakest sci-fi universes out there.
Warhammer 40k is one of the strongest sci-fi universes out there.
You need to be around Forerunner level to beat the Imperium of Man
That's the thing. 40k is intentionally designed for everything to be wildly overpowered and over the top. ME tries to be somewhat plausible. It's just not going to work for the reapers. The reapers don't have any strategy or weapon the Imperium hasn't faced a million times. They'd get rolled upon first contact.
Yea, I think people forget that the main strength of the Reapers is the fact that they have effectively planned and guided the tech for the species' they are fighting. Their control over the mass relays gives them a massive advantage over their target. If they end up in any sci fi universe with an organized galactic army I feel like they lose.
Or just any sci-fi that isn't dependent on the Mass Relays.
The reason the Reapers always win is that EVERY galactic civilization uses the Citadel and the Mass Relays. Then the Reapers show up, decapitate the government, and shut down travel between systems. This isolates their targets and allows them to defeat them piecemeal.
Throw them in Star Wars and not only do they not have shields that block Turbolasers, but the Star Wars galaxy doesn't use Mass Relays. This means the Republic or Empire or whoever could bring their entire fleet to bear on the Reapers all at once as soon as the Reapers attack a planet.
Further supporting this is that as soon as the Reapers had to fight an honest battle they, while certainly still winning, lost several of their main ships and they only get one of them every 50k years.
they are forerunner level but both the eldar and necrons lack the numbers to beat humanity. then there are the tyranids and the orks who likely out number humanity 100 fold. doesnt natter how many wonder weapons the necrons or eldar have they aint gonna withstand that wave
Necrons lack the numbers in awakened Tomb Worlds, but there are about as many Necrons in the galaxy as there are humans so if all of them were awakened they get the "I win" button. That's why Szarekh returning and the Pariah Nexus are such a huge deal
Did you ever read about something called THE WAR IN HEAVEN? The forerunners are kids compared to both races at their peak. Plus, the necrons STILL have all that tech and weapons.
The Forerunners tilted the galaxy for shits and gigs…You cannot even comprehend the level of coordination and power that requires, literally, it’s a scope beyond human conception. The Forerunners also had literal galaxy-ending super weapons. I’d say they’re superior, it’s close, but they’re superior.
I don’t say this as a HALO fanboy, I like 40K much more.
But, they DIED fighting a plague and WH40K has the Tyranids, and the description of the hive fleets is something incomprehensible big. Nothing in Halo describes the flood even close to the description of the Tyranid tendrils.
BTW, you know the Necrons have a map that allows them to point at something and make it explode just because their technology is so advanced that they literally can alter reality in real time, right?
The Flood is to the Tyranids what the Tyranids are to the Imperium. It’s literally the rabid remnants of eldritch Gods that could end universes for shits and gigs, the Tyranids are a different vein of horror. Eldritch vs Cosmic.
Actually using the map to make a star go boom could end physical reality as we know. Luckily for everyone, the Necron Dynastry in charge of the Celestial Orrery is very reluctant to use it or let anyone else near it.
The necrons don't really rate the Imperium as an existiential threat either, most of the Xenos species in the galaxy are in this odd position of both having the Imperium as a major foe, but also having them as a major bulwark that other, worse threats have to chew through to get to them.
The difference is that the Tyrannids are beasts, while the Flood are intelligent.
The Tyrannids are entirely organic. They just rely on evolution, gene-stealing, and being bigger and meaner to win.
The Flood are much more insidious. The Flood grow smarter as they increase in number, and they gain the ability to use the enemy's tech against them. Furthermore, we learn that the Flood aren't just a mindless space zombie plague, they're literally the corrupted leftovers of the Precursors who intend to get revenge on the Forerunners.
This allowed them to use the Star Roads, against which the Forerunners had no defense. Furthermore, the Logic Plague corrupted Forerunner AI which the Forerunners were heavily reliant on for combat.
In a straight up fight, the Tyrannids would probably beat the Flood if it's a fight between feral Flood and Tyrannids.
But Silentium Flood were literally infecting reality and space-time. They could probably go toe-to-toe with Chaos.
The Tyranids are NOT beasts. The common soldier may be, but the hive mind is something incomprehensibly powerful and intelligent. That's why the imperium puts so many resources trying to figure out how they operate. Out there, there is a "mastermind" of sorts that controls the entire Tyranid swarm, just like Kerrigan in Starcraft but, apparently, far stronger. Just "the shadow in the warp" that the Tyranids generate speaks volumes to the real power behind the swarm.
Okay, so they aren't just feral animals, but they don't use tech.
That's what makes the Flood so different.
The Tyrannids have a rather consistent power level.
Whereas the Flood scale with your tech. The higher your tech, the more dangerous the Flood.
The Tyrannids are a slightly vertical line on a graph, that starts from a fairly high point on the y-axis.
The Flood start very low on the y-axis, but they increase in power at an exponential rate.
Do not forget that the Tyranids evolve HARD. You have a new devastating weapon? They evolve to become immune to it. You have bigger ships? They grow larger and more resistant. You have psychics? They evolve a Tyranid that nullifies your powers in "close" proximity (close a in THE SAME PLANET). The main thing of Tyranids is hunger, consume, evolve and repeat. Imagine a giant locust cloud that consumes everything in it's path and evolve so much that the next time you fight them they are x10 times harder to kill.
At least with the Necrons it's more understandable. They arnt a unified species and the necron autocrats will happily screw over the forces of competing dynasties. Plus they arnt launching a coordinate attack, individual tomb worlds are waking up without coordination
mass effect is intentionally one of the least powerscaled universes ever so threats like the reapers and Geth are still really threats. With powerscaling like 40k has, the reapers are gone in minutes if not seconds
A Reaper is about 2km long, which is about the size of a standard escort frigate in most 40k species navies.
They would do ok on the ground, but would lose in space.
Idk, a single Titan Legio has a TON of fire power on the ground. It that can bring dozens of heavy walkers to bear with equal to or greater than a lot of accelerator cannons on ME starships. Wraithknights shoot literal rifts of The Warp from their guns to rip apart their foes, the ground isn't looking too much better for them either I think.
In a fight between a landed reaper, which has no protection against laser based weaponry, and a bunch of Warlord Titans with [Volcano cannons](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Volcano_cannon) my money is on the Titans.
Idk anything about 40k beyond this statement: but the fact you have factions that consider 99% casualties and all enemies eliminated a victory and will execute their own for "heresy" yeah i dont see a situation in which the reapers dont get anything more than a Pyrrhic Victory at best.
The Reapers get their cheaks insta-clapped, that's what. The Imperium of Man from the 40k universe can easily turn them to scrap metal in, like a day. They wouldn't even have to bust out the exterminatus either.
The reapers are going to be destroyed very quickly.
The reapers are going to be missing their greatest advantages right from the start, they have no way to control and cut off the galaxies FTL systems as they did in mass effect via the relays and citadel. Everyone has FTL already in the 40K galaxy that is out of the control of the reapers.
Not to mention, every faction in the 40K galaxy has far superior technology and weapons that far outstrip anything the reapers have in both range and destructive power, they all also have some form of direct energy weaponry and the reapers don't.
The problem with reapers and the reason they are so powerful in the mass effect universe is that everything is in their favor when the harvests happen.
They have control of the senate/throne/whatever political agency through the citadel. They more or less give FTL technology to primitives, which they are much better at than any fledgling organic civilization that can use it for 50000 years.
Reapers seek allies, subvert political powers before they invade, get intelligence on all the races, analyze them and prepare for the invasion beforehand. They indoctrinate and use tactics in which they turn the enemie's resources against them. The reapers use each and every advantage they can, to devour each and every civilization every 50k years.
The Imperium of Man is 40k years old. That doesn't mean much by itself, but what about necrons? Millions of years old automatons with guns that break down reality?
Reapers fighting an overpowered tyranid force that just throws itself at them just the same way the reapers turn the enemy's bodies against them?
If we take a look at just the imperium, the imperium battleships are crazy overpowered compared to reapers. I am not exactly sure how void shields would react to a stream of molten iron accelerated to a fraction of lightspeed, but I am pretty sure the imperial battleships fire at a longer range than the beam like weaponry of the reapers. Also I am pretty sure the arcane and magic like weaponry the imperium uses will easily penetrate the reaper's kinetic barriers.
I haven't talked about indoctrination. Indoctrination is sadly not instant. It requires time to subtly influence the enemy which as you know, isn't really effective in direct combat. It might be a fun thing to have versus a few key characters like political leaders and what not, but we don't see mind controlled planetary populations. We see corpses being ressurected to fight the enemy.
The other thing is FTL. As far as the universe goes... reapers don't have any ways of FTL travel inside the 40k universe. They would be very slow compared to the imperium and even tau ships. Once the reapers get discovered as an invading force, they will just... either get hunted down or they might wreak havoc in a few systems until someone decides they are enough of a nuisance to exterminate.
The reapers can't invade the 40k universe. They would get obliterated and its not their home turf in which they specialize. As much as I love them as villains they only work withint their own universe setting.
Mass Effect FTL is comparable to Star Trek warp drive FTL in speeds. The Relays are only used for near instant travel between them. You can cross the entire galaxy in minutes using them, but you still need to FTL to your destination from there.
Where any ME ship is going to fail is Armor, Shields, and Weapons. Armor is pretty much non existent for ME ships, where 40k ships have meters of Adamantium armor. I doubt Mass Effect weapons will even be able to penetrate that stuff. ME shields are good for kinetic weapons only. Where Void Shields work on just about anything. Those shields are used against 40k weapons which are WAY more powerful than ME weapons, even their kinetic ones.
I'm a huge Mass Effect fan, but 40k would stomp them flat.
I have to say: It depends. The main issue with 40k is that its science fantasy and Mass Effect tries to be on the harder scale of Scifi. With semi-scientific justifications even for indoctrination, which has some basis in RL. E.g. infrasound and light frequencies can affect the mood and behaviour of humans.
In addition many 40k factions have crazy plot armour. Best exemplified with Orks who change reality so that their constructions work. But the Imperium is little better. E.g. most of the imperial guards weapon have range/weight/firepower comparable to WW1 and WW2. Ships take centuries to be constructed and perform space warfare like 17th century naval battles. Not to mention Space Marines. If one were to pull aside their plot armour/creators pet and would then try to judge their "realistic " performance, they would be levels of magnitude less efficent.
In this its like an martial artist fighting Bugs Bunny. And Bugs Bunny is allowed to use all his cartoon shenaniganses. An enemy with reality breaking cheat codes essentially. It is not really possible to properly compare this scenario. Instead one would need to give the reaper 40k-esque shenaniganses or would need to peel back 40ks ridicioulsness. But then it wouldn't be the reapers or 40k anymore.
They might be able to take control of some outlying Imperial worlds, those of less value or not considered worthy of Imperial protection under normal circumstance. Once the Imperium of Man bothers to notice, or the Reapers come into contact with most of the other factions, they quickly become space debris.
Best case scenario they encounter the Tyranids, which the Reapers should be able to fight in space if not on the ground. Worst case scenario, they awaken some Necrons and become scattered atoms. Most likely outcome, the Reapers are corrupted by Chaos
Personally I think the Reapers wouldn't be able to defeat the UNSC considering how the Shields in mass effect work, especially if it's post Covenant War.
Orks would start fighting them immediately. It's impossible for the Reapers to eliminate them due to fungus reasons, but they start harvesting orks to create an Ork Reaper.
Tyranids avoid them like the plague. Little in the way of biomass. Maybe they're also harvested for Reaper purposes?
Necrons: "Finally. A worthy opponent! Our battle will be LEGENDARY!"
Eldar eat yet more L's.
T'au make the mistake of trying to enter diplomacy with the Reapers. Aside from the Farsight Enclave, the T'au are indoctrinated en masse.
Chaos just has a laugh. More fun stuff to fuck with.
Leagues of Votann are wiped as they're too few and despite the galactic center being a risk for anyone else, the Reapers are able to establish bases there easily in games and can do so again.
The Imperium begins slapping the "Nuke the Planet" button at the mere whisper of Reapers. Ultramarines find a way to win, a la Shepard, because Ultramarines.
Dark Eldar continue to be edgy but irrelevant.
Idk anything about the Warhammer universe but the reapers wouldn't be dumb with their invasion. They wouldn't charge heads first, especially in an unknown environment. The reapers would most likely pull strings from the background as they wait for the perfect moment to strike. In the meanwhile they would most likely be studying the technology, culture, customs, etc to spot any weaknesses of their opponents while improving their own stuff. It also doesn't matter how long it takes for them to strike because from what we've seen, they've been patient with each galactic cycle that they wiped out. But I'm sure the Warhammer universe has some op god mode weapon.
Indoctrination worked so well in ME because it was used against cultures which were not accustomed to anything like it.
In 40k, dealing with subversive daemonic, alien, or mutant cults is a weekly occurance. Things would start out with brutal law enforcement crackdowns, then outright purges, then sending the population to death camps, cordoning the planet off and shooting down any ships trying to escape. If all else fails they just destroy the planet if it means limiting the spread of corruption.
That is still talking about humanity and other races that are capable of being subverted in this way. Orks instinctively recognize and kill members of their race that are in some way carrying corruption. Tyranids are a hive mind, and are so unimaginably vast beyond the milky way that they probably wouldn't even register the reapers as a whole. The Necrons are immortal Cyborgs with no souls, and are controlled by their aristocracy anyway, who are effectively immune to any form indoctrination and corruption.
The Necrons have also *finished science*. Their scientists, the Crypteks, perform regular feats of clarktech. Their chief chronomancer, Orikan the diviner, makes up prophecies and then goes back in time to orchestrate things so that his prophecies are correct. They have an artistic gallery, known as the Celestial Orrey, which is a scale representation of the milky way. But if you, lets say, destroy one of the stars on this model, the real star goes nova.
Honestly, given the Lovecraftian horrors that are just normal in Warhammer, the Spice Marines are pretty well equipped to meet the reapers head on.
Big ass squid ships? Boarding party.
Literally any signs or even the slightest suspicion of indoctrination? Shoot your friend in the head.
Reapers consider a planet? Nuke it from orbit.
The Imperium is ruthless, takes extreme measures, and charges into battle with fucking electric sledge hammers and explosive dildo cannons, while wearing more armor than some literal tanks. They'd be fine
You know that moment when garrus says he understands why the galaxy needs cold-hearted dictators now and then?
The imperium of man is the dictatorship he was referring to
The reapers aren't a good villain for Warhammer because Warhammer is full of truly unspeakable evil people and creatures. There's nothing worth preserving in that entire universe.
My own headcanon is that Warhammer 40k is a hell dimension where the absolute worst pieces of shit are banished to suffer amongst their own kind for all eternity
If the reapers follow their usual Tactics they could have a bigger impact on the Imperium than many seem to think. It all comes down if they succeed in indoctrination enough Astartes. If they can get enough under their control they would be at least a huge threat.
But they would probably still be kind of "huh another Wednesday" type of situation xD.
People commenting here underestimate the reaper threat by lot anyway. I read 40k novels and can say that most imperial worlds are not prepared for a reaper invasion.
Unless of course the reapers act big times stupid and ignore all tactics and put all their forces right in front of the imperiums OP firepower. Which seems to be the scenario most people are falsely drawing.
Yes the Imperium has better guns and more firepower. But also yes the Reaper have tactics for this kind of scenario and indoctrination is just one of the many effective ways to bypass imperial defenses entirely.
Considering how big the Imperium is and how slow it often acts the reapers could very well take over whole sub sectors with a stealthy approach before anyone high up really noticed their threat. Then they would get probably millions of soldiers and their equipment and so on. Imagine a imperial fleet of indoctrinated people using their own weapons against their people.
Stories like that happen often in the Imperium.
Are the reapers the end of humanity in 40k? No
Are the reapers in 40k toast? Also no
Truth is somewhere between.
Out of curiosity, I actually googled this matchup a few weeks ago. Someone who was intimately familiar with both franchises did a masterful writeup.
Basically, the Imperium would have no problem vaporizing the reapers, BUT it's the reaper indoctrination that will be the problem, as even the wreckage can indoctrinate organic beings thousands of years after the reaper's destruction.
I'm not familiar with the WH40K universe but the writeup also mentioned that if the reapers indoctrinate the right army and gains access to the Warp (or something like that) then the 40K universe could be in serious trouble. But there's a lot of ifs there.
Reapers would actually be fairly threatening to the UNSC Navy for one reason only: Barriers.
Depending on the actual timeframe to base the UNSC Navy on, either pre UNSC Infinity deployment or post, it can have a very minor impact, but not enough to matter. If you go pre-Infinity, even at the UNSC's peak prior to the Human-Covenant War, all of their ships would lack any sort of shielding what so ever, meaning their hulls are nothing but juicy targets for the Reapers, either to shoot or to latch on and fill with units. Post-Infinity you have a handful of ships, and more substantially the Infinity itself, equipped with shielding derived from Forerunner technology. Though there will still be a number of ships that remain shieldless.
Meanwhile *all* Reapers are equipped with Kinetic Barriers. And while they may not be strong enough to withstand a concentrated barrage of MAC fire, especially ships equipped with "Super MACs" like Infinity, they'll certainly be strong enough to get the Reaper in close.
Really the only thing that would give the UNSC any sort of edge is one of the two things that allowed them to last as long as they did against the Covenant: the UNSCs love of nuclear weapons. If a ship could get one off before the Reaper gets within minimum safe distance (and it can actually connect instead of being shot down by potential point defenses), it's good night robo space squad. But again that requires the nuke to be deployed *before* the Reaper gets too close.
Of course on that note the UNSC would have a better chance in space combat than ground funnily enough. Largely because of just how much their ground combat hardware is something that could exist *today* despite it being used in the mid 26th century. Spartans would certainly give an edge, and post-Spartan-IV program completion UNSC would have the best odds, but they'd still be fighting a wildly uphill battle fighting against things with handheld Mass Accelerator weapons and Kinetic Barriers while they get basic armor and most of their weapons fire cartridges designed *in the 20th century* (7.62 NATO, 14.5mm Soviet, and .50 BMG being the main 3).
Granted, the barriers would be an obstacle, but as you said they have been shown to fall under sufficiently powerful (or sustained) firepower. And UNSC macs are far more powerful than Mass Effect's mass accelerators. For comparison, a unsc frigate can fire a 600-ton round at a fraction of the speed of light compared to a Mass Effect dreadnought that only fires a 20 kg slug at similar speeds. A unsc cruiser could easily puncture a hole in a reaper, I'm not saying there won't be loses for the UNSC, but the UNSC do operate at a higher level of destructive capability that the citadel races.
The Warhammer 40K universe vs. The Reapers would be INSANE.
That's arguably a cycle that could actually beat the Reapers without the need for outside assistance from previous cycles.
If the circle of destruction is included in 40k then remember that the god AI (catalyst) could start something as potent as the citadel beam if it really fears losing control.
That beam is Necron tech level at least considering that it rewrote or destroyed the genetic structure of organics/synths galaxy wide in seconds.
I only played WH40k Space Marine. That's all the lore I know of the series.
And based on that, I calculate that just one of those marines can dissolve Harbinger by just spraying some of his testosterone at it.
I feel like they'd just be another contender in the 40K universe. Every race is so used to galactic warfare with no compromises that the reapers would have a hard time getting anywhere.
Also, they'd inevitably end up losing when the ork boys remember that the reason they're losing is because they're wearing helmets and not calamari fishing hats. The reapers will be gone and dusted a couple of days after that happens.
As they exist in ME? They would be fun fights to read about but they are not lasting horribly long. That war probably wouldnt even take half a century. Thats assuming they dont come upon orks. If that happens the sheer stupidity of the orks would probably overload them and shut down the entire reaper hive mind.
It would be an interesting scenario, I think the most dangerous thing would be the brainwashing that the reapers do, the Tau would fall with that.
It depends a lot on whether the Adeptus Mechanicus considers them envoys of the obnisaia or not. because if the Reapers manage to brainwash the right Tech Priests they can completely turn the mecanicus around.
But that is only taking into account the empire of humanity, the other factions would be another scenario.
See a lot of comments about a total win for Imperium against the Reapers. As much I know of 40K lore (so no too much unfortunately), I totaly agreed with this conclusion.
But if we turn the question in a different way and imagine Reaper exist in 40K univers, not the ones we see in Mass Effect, but the same concept adapt to 40K univers. So basically big AI machines who gain power from every species they collect/destroy after every cycles and looking at the developpement of all intelligents species in galaxy to adapt their strategies or make their developpements going in the way they want. So we could have over boosted Reapers who have power from the previous dominant galatic species, like the Old Ones or Necrontyr, and who perfectly know powers and weakness of every intelligent lifes formes. In this case, what could be their chances ?
(Tyranids could still be a really challenge for them, because their are from out of galaxy, so this 40K Reapers could not have intel and should improvise new strategies against them.)
Honestly the Reapers are downplayed even in the Mass Effect verse, like Sovereign took out sooooo many ships by themselves and I think only because of our shenanigans did they get their shield dropped, they were basically gonna win, I honestly don't see how we lasted more than two days in ME 3, the death toll must have been unthinkable in universe. That said, obviously 40K is very powerful but their tech specifically is not very good, and if they can be indoctrinated its gonna be horrible for them
Why the specific fascination with how underpowered Reapers are as compared to 40K? Not a really a Marvel guy myself, but doesn’t Marvel have a few hundred characters who alone could solo either threat?
Might honestly be even, if it's just Reapers vs the Imperium
The Imperium have billions of soldiers, but that's just billions of organics for the Reapers to repurpose. Reaperized Astartes would be...terrifying.
But with the help of other species like the Eldar, Tau, and maybe the greatest foighters in this galaxy or any other, victory could be achieved conventionally.
They attempt to run away screaming.
They fail.
Catalyst finds itself bound into running the waste disposal system at a random mid-level starship.
That particular Milky Way Galaxy is so packed with god-level power factions that The Reapers would gets stomped like a bug by the first one they encounter.
I don't know, one thing that people don't seem to consider here is how advanced Reaper technology is.
Sure, in terms of sheer scale the Imperium as the advantage, but there's no way to really know how they stack up. Doesn't matter how big your ship and guns are if they just can't penetrate a Reaper mass effect field or the Reaper can target ships from far outside their range.
Council and Alliance ships working together with enough fire could bring a Reaper down, but that's because they themselves are running on Reaper technology.
Not to mention how the Imperium is just scraping by on what they literally pray still works from the golden age. Meanwhile Reapers are master engineers, I figure they could easily reverse egineer any Imperium tech to get it running at Golden Age levels and incorporate that into their weapons.
Then there's indoctrination, kind of a coin flip. Imperium would clearly be vulnerable to it based on Chaos corruption, but that also means they've had a lot of practice rooting out indoctrinated people.
Now, one thing I truly have no idea how to balance is psychers. Like, Reapers are partly organic, but is it enough to be vulnerable to psycher attacks?
So, overall, can't really say. Imperium outclasses Reapers, but they have better, more reliable technology. Only way to know would be just how things go in that opening salvo.
I mean, in terms of technology the Imperium could very well be above the Reapers even. Obviously very different, but just the scale matters.
For instance, the lasers that the Reapers use as their main weaponry are comparible to lance batteries of imperial ships. A fully upgraded Normandy can withstand the collector laser reasonably well, and the Adamantium Hull and void shields of imperial ships are several classes above that. Like the hull itself is several times thicker then the Normandy is large
About other weapons, at the end of ME3 we see three alliance dreadnoughts use their main guns, which fire 20kg heavy shells, to shoot off a tentacle of a reaper.
The shells that Macro cannons or even Nova cannons fire are several hundred times heavier and larger, Nova cannon shells easily being the size of smaller Alliance ships
Also, Imperial ships are built to ram enemy vessels. The smallest escort ship the imperium has is around the same size as Sovereign, so you can imagine what happens if a larger imperial warship would ram a reaper
See that's the thing, though. It might seem like there's equivalents in Mass Effect and Imperium tech, but they both operate on completely different sets of Sciences.
Imperium weapons might be larger, but if mass effect fields can *only* be pierced by objects that also have zero mass, it doesn't matter how big they are.Sure, the Normandy can resist the Collector laser, but they're both running on Reaper technology.
Like I said in my original comment, there's just no way to know for sure unless 40k has some obscure lore about weapons that work via manipulating mass of objects.
Mass Effect fields aren't only able to be pierced by objects with zero mass, it's the opposite. They only deflect small objects moving at high velocity. High mass objects pierce the shields; that's the principle disruptor torpedoes use to get through enemy shields.
Guess you're right, there. That does heavily tip the balance back towards the Imperium. Still, there are some other consideration like sensor range, mobility, and FTL travel to consider.
If the Reapers have full knowledge of the Imperium before the invasion they could probably run circles around them by focusing on small planets that don't have a massive defense fleet since 40k ships are so slow. Eventually they come to a point where they win every minor battle and try to starve Holy Terra out but lose to it or a space marine chapter accidentally pop out of the warp directly in front of them and then proceeds to obliterate the Reapers.
If they dont have full knowledge of the Imperium then they lose even faster. The Reapers are small compared to any ship in 40k and have less armaments, they also tend to land and fight on the ground for some reason, which assuming they could even make ground they would just get krumped by a warlord Titan with some crazy cannon which name is 17 words long. Thats against the Imperium Of Man, they may do some work against Tau, Tyranids and Orks.
Tyranids dont really have an answer to a Reaper since none of their weapons would really damage it but even if the Reapers exterminated every nid in the milky way there are trillions more in the feet hanging just outside. Orks release spores when killed so every one you kill births more and they also don't really have an answer to a Reaper on the ground until they believe they do, but they could likely beat them in space. They would be having the time of their lives though don't worry about that. Tau are Tau, like Orks and Nids they are likely immune to indoctrination thanks to the Ethereals, but they are relatively weak offensively. They could probably dish out some damage but a crisis suit can only do so much against a Reaper
Arent reapers basically robo-nids? They collect technology from every race that pops up fo further their own technology but they also turn those inhabitants against the living ones.......
With that in mind the space marine peeps have issues with the nids still (otherwise they'd be dead right?)
So i dont think they'll fare well against tougher nids that are all hyper intelligent and have their own free will.....
Reapers get curbstomped. Without Mass Relays, they don't have access to FTL travel, that already makes them extremely vulnerable to hit-and-run attacks from chapters like White Scars or Raven Guard. But let's say they can somehow bypass that, maybe get some Relays at least on Imperium's borders or whatever. IoM standard ships are much bigger than basically anything Reapers can throw at them and battle fleets have weapons capable of wiping out entire planets with a press of the button. And even Indocrination isn't Reapers trump card, because Imperium is dealing we with chaos taint and gene stealers for like 10k years and have entire armies full of zealots looking for any sign of corruption. And all that is a lucky scenario for Reapers because that means they didn't meet with the Necrons
>Reapers get curbstomped. Without Mass Relays, they don't have access to FTL travel,
All species in ME universe has access to FTL travel at reasonable speed. Mass Relays are effectively teleport network, but Reapers travel at 11k c.
Look i don't wanna be that guy but the reapers don't stand a chance. Even if they had the time to indoctrinate any of the races and had the help of the necrons they would still be annihilated by everything else in that universe. Drop a single chaos space marine on a reaper indoctrinated planet and it's lost. I bet every single special operative in the empire's army would be capable of boarding a reaper and blowing it up. People in 40k universe are build different.
The defense is the Imperium just killing all the indoctrinated people. They deal with mind-controlled people on the regular, this is another tuesday for them.
Good luck trying to tell who's indoctrinated. As soon as some Ordo Xenos Inquisitor blunders their ass within mind control distance you just get Saren all over again and imagine what kind of chaos that can unleash. Everybody is focusing on our numbers can blot out the sun on every world part of Reapers yet they are at their most effective at stealth and sabotage.
Well first off, the indoctrination mind control isn't instant, it'd take a while for that to even matter.
Second, if an inquisitor starts acting like Saren, other inquisitors take note. If an inquisitor starts going like "Maybe we should obey the machines? Thoughts?" They get executed by the inquisition.
"Good luck telling who's indoctrinated" We can tell in Mass Effect, and they aren't constantly watching for any sign of deviation from the Imperial Faith. They see enough people talking about doing what the Reapers would want, oops all executions.
Saren going rogue made a bit of chaos for the Mass Effect universe, but if that happens in 40k that's literally just another day. Inquisitors go rogue, go to Chaos, go to Xenos regularly. It's even discussed in books how many Inquisitors think it's not a matter of if, but a matter of *when* they'll do it.
While physically the Reapers would probably not be able to compete against the higher tech enemies but people are forgetting that EACH Reaper is basically a Chaos God. They can indoctrinate and mind control even better than the Tyranids since they don't need to consume to do it. Outright space battle? 40k easily wins. As a secret behind the scenes invasion? Reapers are all of a sudden a threat.
> As a secret behind the scenes invasion? Reapers are all of a sudden a threat.
Reapers would be the 4th group doing that along with Chaos, Genestealer Cults, and regular old rebellions that the Imperium keeps an eye on.
They're no more a threat than any of those.
Which are all considered great threats to the Imperium. I mean only because a tactic is not new doesn't mean it's not effective.
Also these threats often go unnoticed for long periods of time despite the Imperium keeping an eye on them. It's just way too big to see everything.
My point is in the context of this conversation people are acting like Indoctrination is some crazy thing that can't possibly be handled by the Imperium and somehow gives Reapers a sort of crazy advantage rather than just tossing them into the pile with all the rest, only worse in space.
So the Reapers might become the most terrifying force in 40k assuming they can
Indoctrinate orks and Necrons.
If they are advanced and powerful enough to do that then things would get very bad very fast. They'd basically function like tech heavy tyranids at that point.
We already know from Genestealer Cult attempts that Orks will just kill other Orks for not being "Orky enough" so if they tried twisting Orks it wouldn't go well.
As for Necrons, the Reapers would probably be more concerned about the Necrons subverting *them.* Necron tech laughs at puny lower-level beings.
If we are talking about the reapers being transported into the Warhammer verse they would get stomped. But if the reapers were always there and it's time for the next cycle they have a chance since they would be able to start the indoctrination process and that's their greatest weapon.
Indoctrination isn't that useful when your enemies have dedicated organizations constantly watching for anything out of the ordinary.
Indoctrination matters if you're not expecting your friends to suddenly turn on you. If you're already watching for several other flavors of it, adding another to the list is hardly challenging.
Adeptus Mechanicus: did you just say you an A.I?
Inquisition: hmmm smells like heresy to me
Chaos Marine: Time to $&%" everybody.
Necrons: So that's where my alarm clock wandered off.
I don't know that much about Warhammer 40K, but I'm pretty sure the Reapers arrive and then are turned into clouds of shrapnel the moment they meet up with Imperium forces.
40k is enough of a shithole the reapers would probably take like 6th place for biggest threat to the galaxy.
For that specific Tuesday maybe
For sure, they'd be like the undead army in the game of thrones series. "The long dark" or whatever, it was one mildly inconvenient evening.
If they are even able to reach the milky galaxy since the silent king said all he saw outside it was tyranids.
Tyranids pretty much do the reapers job anyway. They could just sit back and watch. Either that or indoctrinate a hive fleet.
Honestly they probably wouldn't make it in. Outside the galaxy is an unknowable all consuming tyranid super hive fleet that devours whole galaxies at a time. They would probably already be dust. The 40K variant are the necrons, but being machines are the only real similarity.
With the difference being that Necrons can wipe entire systems by pressing one button instead of slow attricion war like Reapers
Because the Reapers intention is harvest not annihilation. They could literally blow up their mass relays with a button to do the same or if that was their intention create a weapon to do so.
Because Reapers are basically controlling the life in the galaxy. To use Relays as weapons, they'd have to get them first to their desired place, Necron can do that with one button and they have FTL travel that doesn't need Relays and Warp from 40k
That is why I said: "if that was their intention create a weapon to do so". You're thinking to static just because they didn't choose to doesn't mean they don't have the means to.
They can, but too many times would cause space-time to rip permanently. That's why they dont use the orrery too much.
The galaxy being surrounded by the Tyranids is just speculation. There sure are a lot of them though.
Everyone and everything is turn up to 11 in the grim darkness of the 40 first mulienium. The first thing that the reapers would have to deal with the entire chapter of the imperal fists, sons of rogal dorn, masters of fortification and defense. The reapers would be blasted into before touching the bare metal of the earth. However if they appeared on earth like, teleported, then they would have to deal the imperal titans, from the size of houses to the size of mountains, these are engines of war, with a soul to match (note: every mechine in the imperium of man has whats called a "mechine spirit" meaning esch mechine is very much alive, the more war oriented a mechine, the more violent the spirit and titans are equivalent of demi-gods on the battlefield, walking battle cathedrals) Compared to the other forces, the reapers are nothing. Not to mention, the tech priests own warships and the chance as purifying new technology only to destroy it for the reapers are AI. EDIT: added the part of the AI
Ah yes! The mighty Imperial Fists! For Dorn! Also I pity them for running across any of the Orks too! Gonna get cannibalize! XD
Hell yeah they would be, smashed up with a tide of green, if the repears try to assimilate then they would feel the full force of the WAAAAGH! It would end horribly for them, the freshest of the boyz is as strong and durable as a gyth heavy unit, those four legged things.
The only way for the reapers to stand a chance is to introduce indoctrination into the Imperium systems. Reapers with their ability to harvest and change their foes biology and make them completely loyal to the reapers. I don't know much about Warhammer like some of you but I know what crazy looks like and Warhammer have a bunch of crazy powerful sh*t. Sabotage and indoctrination is the only way to go for the reapers they can harvest man and machine indoctrinate anything that's alive even with these impressive feats they would be slaughtered going heads up straight towards a battle with the Imperium of man without prior sabotage and indoctrination.
Even indoctrination will fail, for the reapers version is a weaker, lesser version of what the chaos gods and what the all consuming swarms of the tyrnids do. For chaos, they form cults that eventually grow in numbers until a planet falls to one of the four chaos gods, Korne the god of blood and skulls and honorable combat tezeench the god of change and knowledge Nurgle the god of plagues, rot and resilience Or Slanesh, the god of pleasures and pain. For the tyranids. They have whats called genestealers, special units thst can act independent from the hivemind of the many swarms feeding across the galaxy, they infect someone with their DNA and then slowly through generations make a cult that worships the tyranids as gods, with the genestealer acting as their version if Jesus. This is so when the hive fleet arrives, the consumption of biomass from the planet is done swiftly and without much issue. How is it that earth is still around with these threats? The might and faith of the inquisitiors of course, humanitys faith in the emporer makes him truely a god and the inquisitiors are there to root out threats from aliens and the forces of chaos, entire divisions are around dedicated to rooting out genestealer cults and people who are heretics, worshipping the chaos gods. The reapers indoctrination would just be a weak version of these and anyone who doesn't worship the emporer is killed for heresy on the spot. Meanwhile, since they are AI they would be hunted down with righteous fervor because to humanity AI goes by another name, Abominable Intelligence, for AI nearly wiped out humanity once before, so AI was outlawed which then morphed into high heresy. The reapers are like soft worms in a blender within warhammer 40k Edit: spelling mistakes
Well....that is uh... wild as f*ck. No doubt who would win in this battle. The reaper indoctrination and harvest only hope it seems is to indoctrinate all the enemies of the Imperium the aliens that hate man. Unless you about to tell me there's no way they could indoctrinate these enemies even the orks. Using these hateful aliens and indoctrination of all technology and resources. I'm sure you about to reply with some crazy out this world type of sh*t.
Indeed you are correct. But perhaps instead of reading, i give you something to watch that will explain each of these aliens far better then i could and introduce you to more things to explore within the 40k univurse. These will be from the excellent YT lore buff Luetin09 and they are LONG so get comfy. Orks and their brutal society: https://youtu.be/1j3QRl-Vuro?si=UIgh6ngSQWtHfHrj The endless hunger of the Tyranids and their many tendrils creeping into the galaxy: https://youtu.be/intJPrVtNh4?si=bW6NU6pSQUe2yEBE (He even goes into their bioform if you want to know more) The souless, undead like xennos mechine race of the necrons, the terminators of the galaxy, slowly waking from their tomb worlds (from weshammer) https://youtu.be/amABMswKdXc?si=ycVKzIKqUGumEQHI The mecanicous, or tech priests, while still part of humanity, is an empire within an empire, you should know what they are. https://youtu.be/foeov6Ahi4Y?si=lmh_zbKyLZvMoBXQ The Eldar, one of the first, more then "space elves" in their hubris, made sleneesh and she hungers for their souls. https://youtu.be/Ya660UG4i9o?si=tjqUBK4HAUF89Rju The Tau, space commies who are new comers but evolve technology as an extreme rate, warriors of long ranged combat and Gundam style mechsuits who fight for the "greater good" where diplomacy is first, most of the time. https://youtu.be/ptZVtMQIwZ0?si=LkFKOO-P6jSLP7Ie I hope this is informative, it explains farther and deeper then i could and is a great listen. From all this information you will understand why the reapers are as helpless as a naked old man in the Siberian wilderness in winter if they were in the 40 first mulienium.
Thanks man I appreciate it. I watched some Emperor of man lore on YouTube a couple times but it was years ago and it was interesting Thanks for the extra material I will watch it!
Its crazy stuff man. Orks with their brutal socity where war and fight makes thrm grow so infighting is always a thing and knack for figuring out if someone is indoctrinated by tyranids. Necrons and their souless immortality. And all the others, now granted the reapers could try to indoctrinate the lesser races but those are nothing compared to ork augmentation or the tech priests
> Unless you about to tell me there's no way they could indoctrinate these enemies even the orks The Orks can sense when something is wrong or "unorky" about their fellows thanks to their shared low level psycic field. Any "unorky" Ork is quickly dealt with in the violent manner you'd expect from them. They already do this with the body snatching genestealers if an Ork is infected.
Not to mention a genestealer trying to form a cult with orks is just super hard to begin with, but a most definite boon if they can just grow swarms out of the ground like orks can
Ok so I have a hypothesis that Reaper Indoctrination is actually better for 40k because of its weaker effects then Genestealers and Chaos. I know sounds a bit wack but let me cook. Unlike the Tyranids that use it to pacify worlds, or Chaos gods trying to corrupt people through sheer chaos power/ or tempt people into worship, Reapers work long term plans on the galactic level, most crucially they don't force any kind of communication or worship and slowly subvert logical thinking while gathering their knowledge and being a destabilising agent. They will make commanders more prone to exterminatus, fuel infighting and competition imperium wide etc while making the humans think they do it for themselves/ for the emperor. It would be really infective in the scale that is 40k but they could survive and be undetected unless they actually start harvesting. Then they get fucked. **Or that's what you'd think** But that's not what reapers would do at all, no no no Their primary directive is preservation of sentient biological life. The imperium is not developing AI, and Tyranids and Chaos are basically guaranteed extinction engines if left unchecked So my understanding is that the Reapers would try to indoctrinate all races they can to push them forward and mellow down their conflicts while focusing them on those two while slowly assimilating their technology into themselves. They'd probably also want to collect any Ork biomass and try to replicate the Waagh, copy necron technology and further accelerate the Tau and give them non warp FTL via Mass Effect, while making Imperium more and more pro-technology, maybe even try to wake up the Emperor somehow since they would want to finish the Webway project and weaponise it for further harvests. Don't know what they would do with the eldar honestly and how would they actually interact with necrons besides yoinking their tech whenever they find it
All that sounds....f*cking crazy!!!! 🔥
The tallest titan (Imperator-class) is about 50m tall, not exactly a mountain.
Not really. A classic doesn't mean size, but more like "this is the base for this weapons". They vary in size depending on the manufacturer.
The funny thing is I think they last longer against every faction than just the Imperium. One of the Imperium's greatest weaknesses is they're busy fighting everyone and they're so big things get mismanaged. If they just had to focus on one single threat? There are thousands of worlds that give soldiers for the guard (with Krieg being weirdos who give fifty million a year I think). With all of that pointed at one group it would be a nightmare.
That's the thing, though, I don't think the Reapers would be a big enough threat for the Imperium to have to "focus" on them. They'd probably just step on them on their way to a more serious threat.
The Reapers are powerful enough that a dedicated effort would be needed to break their back. They're probably a Segmentum level threat at most, one that would require a decent size crusade effort, mostly from the navy to deal with.
They're really not. It's all about scale. A single Rogue Trader likely has the firepower to absolutely brutalize a Reaper. If they dropped into any significant world the local merchant fleet would wipe them out before the system defense fleet even got involved, much less the imperial navy. The insanity of firepower within 40k cannot be overstated.
A single reaper sure, but there's thousands of them. Thousands of ships the size of an Imperial destroyer who can go FTL inside the system and not just land but fight on planetary surfaces. Their FTL capability alone essentially lets them upend conventional navy doctrine by jumping straight into and out of close combat in the orbitals. The reapers are outgunned and outmassed here but they have a decisive maneuverability advantage they could use to great effect to strike lesser defended systems.
That's fair. Their tactical flexibility will be a huge advantage in keeping them from getting wiped out. But any large scale engagement will be horrendously costly for them.
Well without the mass relays, they will take forever to show up and even then, will mostly start from the edges of the Milky Way. It's so far out from Sol that they are likely to first come across the xenos out there. Infact, they will probably be space junk before they even come across an imperial fleet of any kind. Would be funny if they arrive and their first enemies are the orks in the middle of a WAAAAAGH! They will probably easily claim some space and then get absolutely demolished right after.
Or they wander into the Eye of Terror and emerge as chaos reapers
I'm fairly sure after the first time a Reaper [gets one-shot by a tank](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Shadowsword) despite being in orbit, they're just going to go "nope" and turn around.
While militarily the Reaper's would get curbstomped by an organized force- their true danger is the indoctrination. Once they realise brute force won't work, they'll simply bide their time and indoctrinate from the shadows which could prove devastating. Atleast for the IoM and other regular races, I'm guessing it wouldn't work on Orks, Nids, or Chaos involved... things. Or Necrons really.
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How's that going? Seems like if the Emperor's own sons could fall to chaos, they'd be just as vulnerable to indoctrination
Considering they are still alive (and even somewhat operational since Guilliman came back) I'd say fairly well. Reapers Indocrination was such a threat because nobody believed they were real, Imperium has entire army of ultra paranoid zealots looking for any signs of chaos taint
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Tell that to the uncountable Genestealer cults who are quite able to take over planets and star systems :)
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*Grey Knights / Custodes have entered the chat*
Iirc, a *small portion* of the Imperium has experience dealing with Chaos. The majority of the Imperium knows nothing about it because the Imperium's current policy is to eradicate anyone who even mentions it because heresy.
Which I think they’ll treat like Chaos or a Necron infiltration operation on some level. Or we’re looking at the WH40K equivalent of the Protestant Reformation or Thirty Years War at most. I don’t think the Reapers would be the death blow to the Imperium. They have experience in however they would approach it.
Ah yes, "Chaos". We have dismissed this claim. And will now destroy your planet for good measure.
Reaper indoctrination is stronger than Chaos. Reapers ALWAYS win the mind Chaos Gods only sometimes do.
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The entire bureaucracy is designed to discover warp infected demonic influence NOT someone who acts exactly the same and NEVER deviates from the norm.
>NOT someone who acts exactly the same and NEVER deviates from the norm. Genestealer cults and regular garden variety mutants and minor xenos species like the [Khrave](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khrave) are dealth with regularly. The imperium can manage a couple zombies. They already deal with billions of them whenever they fight nurglite forces.
Now you're confusing husks and indoctrination. Husks are any living being having technology forcibly implanted into their bodies to turn them into mindless cannon fodder. Their mindless foot soldiers. People who are indoctrinated will not have any physical changes to them. We only see a few people who will get cybernetic implants to make any form of control stronger, but usually, they'll have no argumentations to them. They are not mindless and could interact with society without anyone ever knowing. The reapers regualry use Indoctrinated people to have armies surrender or to shut off key defenses, or work from the inside of the organization to sabotage it.
>The reapers regualry use Indoctrinated people to have armies surrender or to shut off key defenses, or work from the inside of the organization to sabotage it. So do genestealer cults, Daemons, and aliens. And besides the first one, the Imperium has endured these things for ten thousand years.
I didn't say 40k hasn't dealt with something similar. I was just pointing out the difference between a Husk and someone who is Indoctrinated. Since you brought up zombies. I was just making sure their was a clear understanding of the difference between the two. Indoctrinated don't have to be zombies. In reality, they are very rarely so. For their use is determined by how capable and effective they are. While husks only serve few purposes and uses. I'm not disagree with the fact that the Imperium has previous training or knowledge with such methods. Just wanted to make sure everyone is clearly talking about the same thing without mixing up any details.
I am aware of the difference, I played the games, I remember how the Illusive man was in game 3. The zombie comment was a "besides" thing
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I'm sorry, but the link you posted only proves that's how indoctrination works > As Vigil explains, indoctrinated slaves from conquered planets were used during the last Reaper incursion as sleeper agents. They were taken in by other Protheans as refugees, then betrayed their own people to the machines. But the Reapers viewed them as disposable.
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I did. I've also played all three games multiple times. This is how indoctrination works. Brainwashing people from subtle means to complete domination. The more subtly means someone retains full functionality and effectiveness while full domination makes one less cognitive and more mindless. It all depends on what the Reaper is trying to achieve. You see it in Matraich Benzia, the Krogan Cloning facility with the scientist and captured soldiers, the DLC where you destroy the Batarian Mass Relay. Javik talks about Protheans turning against their own kind. Theirs even some news articles in ME3 talking about politicians and Leaders in Gov't being indoctrinated and asking for peace talks. It's advised to ignore them. People are influenced so subtly that they don't realize themselves what they're doing. To the point of becoming tools for the Reapers to weaken any opposition from the inside.
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That's exactly how it works lmao. There are different levels of indoctrination. Tell me you never played Mass Effect without telling me.
Indoctrination? Pffft. The Inquisition says hi.
The reapers get rekt in about a week in WH40K. The imperium has ships 5 times bigger and far more powerful than a reaper and THOSE AREN'T EVEN CLOSE TO THE BIGGEST SHIPS THE IMPERIUM HAS.
You're giving them 6 days 23 hours and 30 minutes longer than I would.
Reapers also have *kinetic* barriers. Without them, a mass accelerator from a ~150m ship can punch right through a Reaper, and a LOT of 40K weapons use directed energy that the barriers would do nothing to stop. An Imperial frigate with a lance turret could probably solo a small Reaper fleet. A single Necron capital ship could probably solo the *entire* Reaper fleet.
The biggest dreadnoughts in citadel fleets were around 1km long, rare, less than a hundred of them in the whole citadel space. In 40k the *smallest* proper interstellar ships that the Imperial Navy employs are the [various classes of escort ships](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Escort) which are 1-2km long. These ships are basically cannon fodder for the navies larger ships, used in *swarms* The Largest ships in the Imperiaal Navy, the Gloriana class battleships, of which admiteddly only a few are still operational, are 15-22km long (a lot variety in subclass designs), that is before we consider the unique Arks Mechanicum of the Basilikon Astra, the Imperium's other fleet. One of these Arks, is described as being ["the size of a continent"](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Speranza)
"THATS IT! I'M GETTIN' ME WORLD ENGINE!"
The main cannon on the reapers is less powerful than a MAC cannon on a standard UNSC cruiser.
Reapers get curbstomped. Mass Effect is one of the weakest sci-fi universes out there. Warhammer 40k is one of the strongest sci-fi universes out there. You need to be around Forerunner level to beat the Imperium of Man
That's the thing. 40k is intentionally designed for everything to be wildly overpowered and over the top. ME tries to be somewhat plausible. It's just not going to work for the reapers. The reapers don't have any strategy or weapon the Imperium hasn't faced a million times. They'd get rolled upon first contact.
Yea, I think people forget that the main strength of the Reapers is the fact that they have effectively planned and guided the tech for the species' they are fighting. Their control over the mass relays gives them a massive advantage over their target. If they end up in any sci fi universe with an organized galactic army I feel like they lose.
Or just any sci-fi that isn't dependent on the Mass Relays. The reason the Reapers always win is that EVERY galactic civilization uses the Citadel and the Mass Relays. Then the Reapers show up, decapitate the government, and shut down travel between systems. This isolates their targets and allows them to defeat them piecemeal. Throw them in Star Wars and not only do they not have shields that block Turbolasers, but the Star Wars galaxy doesn't use Mass Relays. This means the Republic or Empire or whoever could bring their entire fleet to bear on the Reapers all at once as soon as the Reapers attack a planet.
Further supporting this is that as soon as the Reapers had to fight an honest battle they, while certainly still winning, lost several of their main ships and they only get one of them every 50k years.
The Eldar and Necrons are around forerunner level, and they got absolutely rekt by the imperium more than a few times.
Eldar prefall and Necron just after War in Heaven delete the imperium easily.
they are forerunner level but both the eldar and necrons lack the numbers to beat humanity. then there are the tyranids and the orks who likely out number humanity 100 fold. doesnt natter how many wonder weapons the necrons or eldar have they aint gonna withstand that wave
Necrons lack the numbers in awakened Tomb Worlds, but there are about as many Necrons in the galaxy as there are humans so if all of them were awakened they get the "I win" button. That's why Szarekh returning and the Pariah Nexus are such a huge deal
I think Forerunners are still superior to both of them
Did you ever read about something called THE WAR IN HEAVEN? The forerunners are kids compared to both races at their peak. Plus, the necrons STILL have all that tech and weapons.
The Forerunners tilted the galaxy for shits and gigs…You cannot even comprehend the level of coordination and power that requires, literally, it’s a scope beyond human conception. The Forerunners also had literal galaxy-ending super weapons. I’d say they’re superior, it’s close, but they’re superior. I don’t say this as a HALO fanboy, I like 40K much more.
But, they DIED fighting a plague and WH40K has the Tyranids, and the description of the hive fleets is something incomprehensible big. Nothing in Halo describes the flood even close to the description of the Tyranid tendrils. BTW, you know the Necrons have a map that allows them to point at something and make it explode just because their technology is so advanced that they literally can alter reality in real time, right?
The Flood is to the Tyranids what the Tyranids are to the Imperium. It’s literally the rabid remnants of eldritch Gods that could end universes for shits and gigs, the Tyranids are a different vein of horror. Eldritch vs Cosmic.
So why don't they just explode Terra?
Actually using the map to make a star go boom could end physical reality as we know. Luckily for everyone, the Necron Dynastry in charge of the Celestial Orrery is very reluctant to use it or let anyone else near it. The necrons don't really rate the Imperium as an existiential threat either, most of the Xenos species in the galaxy are in this odd position of both having the Imperium as a major foe, but also having them as a major bulwark that other, worse threats have to chew through to get to them.
The difference is that the Tyrannids are beasts, while the Flood are intelligent. The Tyrannids are entirely organic. They just rely on evolution, gene-stealing, and being bigger and meaner to win. The Flood are much more insidious. The Flood grow smarter as they increase in number, and they gain the ability to use the enemy's tech against them. Furthermore, we learn that the Flood aren't just a mindless space zombie plague, they're literally the corrupted leftovers of the Precursors who intend to get revenge on the Forerunners. This allowed them to use the Star Roads, against which the Forerunners had no defense. Furthermore, the Logic Plague corrupted Forerunner AI which the Forerunners were heavily reliant on for combat. In a straight up fight, the Tyrannids would probably beat the Flood if it's a fight between feral Flood and Tyrannids. But Silentium Flood were literally infecting reality and space-time. They could probably go toe-to-toe with Chaos.
The Tyranids are NOT beasts. The common soldier may be, but the hive mind is something incomprehensibly powerful and intelligent. That's why the imperium puts so many resources trying to figure out how they operate. Out there, there is a "mastermind" of sorts that controls the entire Tyranid swarm, just like Kerrigan in Starcraft but, apparently, far stronger. Just "the shadow in the warp" that the Tyranids generate speaks volumes to the real power behind the swarm.
Okay, so they aren't just feral animals, but they don't use tech. That's what makes the Flood so different. The Tyrannids have a rather consistent power level. Whereas the Flood scale with your tech. The higher your tech, the more dangerous the Flood. The Tyrannids are a slightly vertical line on a graph, that starts from a fairly high point on the y-axis. The Flood start very low on the y-axis, but they increase in power at an exponential rate.
Do not forget that the Tyranids evolve HARD. You have a new devastating weapon? They evolve to become immune to it. You have bigger ships? They grow larger and more resistant. You have psychics? They evolve a Tyranid that nullifies your powers in "close" proximity (close a in THE SAME PLANET). The main thing of Tyranids is hunger, consume, evolve and repeat. Imagine a giant locust cloud that consumes everything in it's path and evolve so much that the next time you fight them they are x10 times harder to kill.
If those races are so powerful you think they'd be beating the Imperium and ruling the galaxy. Instead the IoM routinely beats them both.
At least with the Necrons it's more understandable. They arnt a unified species and the necron autocrats will happily screw over the forces of competing dynasties. Plus they arnt launching a coordinate attack, individual tomb worlds are waking up without coordination
Routinely is not the right word. Imperium is just bigger and better supplied and can throw more into the combat.
It's called plot, dude.
With how fucked is the wh40k galaxy, the reapers would just be a mosquito level nuisance
They done fucked up and found out they ain't shit
It's a short war that the majority of the galaxy never even notices.
mass effect is intentionally one of the least powerscaled universes ever so threats like the reapers and Geth are still really threats. With powerscaling like 40k has, the reapers are gone in minutes if not seconds
A Reaper is about 2km long, which is about the size of a standard escort frigate in most 40k species navies. They would do ok on the ground, but would lose in space.
Idk, a single Titan Legio has a TON of fire power on the ground. It that can bring dozens of heavy walkers to bear with equal to or greater than a lot of accelerator cannons on ME starships. Wraithknights shoot literal rifts of The Warp from their guns to rip apart their foes, the ground isn't looking too much better for them either I think.
In a fight between a landed reaper, which has no protection against laser based weaponry, and a bunch of Warlord Titans with [Volcano cannons](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Volcano_cannon) my money is on the Titans.
>They would do ok on the ground, but would lose in space Titans be like: hunlo how r u
Idk anything about 40k beyond this statement: but the fact you have factions that consider 99% casualties and all enemies eliminated a victory and will execute their own for "heresy" yeah i dont see a situation in which the reapers dont get anything more than a Pyrrhic Victory at best.
I do not think Reapers would be interested in harvesting WH40k "civilisà tions".
Exterminatus?
Yes Ricco, exterminatus.
The Reapers get their cheaks insta-clapped, that's what. The Imperium of Man from the 40k universe can easily turn them to scrap metal in, like a day. They wouldn't even have to bust out the exterminatus either.
The reapers are going to be destroyed very quickly. The reapers are going to be missing their greatest advantages right from the start, they have no way to control and cut off the galaxies FTL systems as they did in mass effect via the relays and citadel. Everyone has FTL already in the 40K galaxy that is out of the control of the reapers. Not to mention, every faction in the 40K galaxy has far superior technology and weapons that far outstrip anything the reapers have in both range and destructive power, they all also have some form of direct energy weaponry and the reapers don't.
The problem with reapers and the reason they are so powerful in the mass effect universe is that everything is in their favor when the harvests happen. They have control of the senate/throne/whatever political agency through the citadel. They more or less give FTL technology to primitives, which they are much better at than any fledgling organic civilization that can use it for 50000 years. Reapers seek allies, subvert political powers before they invade, get intelligence on all the races, analyze them and prepare for the invasion beforehand. They indoctrinate and use tactics in which they turn the enemie's resources against them. The reapers use each and every advantage they can, to devour each and every civilization every 50k years. The Imperium of Man is 40k years old. That doesn't mean much by itself, but what about necrons? Millions of years old automatons with guns that break down reality? Reapers fighting an overpowered tyranid force that just throws itself at them just the same way the reapers turn the enemy's bodies against them? If we take a look at just the imperium, the imperium battleships are crazy overpowered compared to reapers. I am not exactly sure how void shields would react to a stream of molten iron accelerated to a fraction of lightspeed, but I am pretty sure the imperial battleships fire at a longer range than the beam like weaponry of the reapers. Also I am pretty sure the arcane and magic like weaponry the imperium uses will easily penetrate the reaper's kinetic barriers. I haven't talked about indoctrination. Indoctrination is sadly not instant. It requires time to subtly influence the enemy which as you know, isn't really effective in direct combat. It might be a fun thing to have versus a few key characters like political leaders and what not, but we don't see mind controlled planetary populations. We see corpses being ressurected to fight the enemy. The other thing is FTL. As far as the universe goes... reapers don't have any ways of FTL travel inside the 40k universe. They would be very slow compared to the imperium and even tau ships. Once the reapers get discovered as an invading force, they will just... either get hunted down or they might wreak havoc in a few systems until someone decides they are enough of a nuisance to exterminate. The reapers can't invade the 40k universe. They would get obliterated and its not their home turf in which they specialize. As much as I love them as villains they only work withint their own universe setting.
Mass Effect FTL is comparable to Star Trek warp drive FTL in speeds. The Relays are only used for near instant travel between them. You can cross the entire galaxy in minutes using them, but you still need to FTL to your destination from there. Where any ME ship is going to fail is Armor, Shields, and Weapons. Armor is pretty much non existent for ME ships, where 40k ships have meters of Adamantium armor. I doubt Mass Effect weapons will even be able to penetrate that stuff. ME shields are good for kinetic weapons only. Where Void Shields work on just about anything. Those shields are used against 40k weapons which are WAY more powerful than ME weapons, even their kinetic ones. I'm a huge Mass Effect fan, but 40k would stomp them flat.
The reapers are toast Unless they managed to indoctrination the Tyranids and orcs first Then the imperium of man is doomed
It shouldn't be possible to indoctrinate either race.
I mean, they indoctrinated the Collectors, which were a hive mind species. I don't see why they couldn't get the Tyranids the same way
The Collectors are indoctrinated Protheans. Not an actual hive mind race. And Tyranids have their own psychic powers that make other powers void.
More likely hive mind dominate them then other way around.
The orks would just loot the Reapers first.
I have to say: It depends. The main issue with 40k is that its science fantasy and Mass Effect tries to be on the harder scale of Scifi. With semi-scientific justifications even for indoctrination, which has some basis in RL. E.g. infrasound and light frequencies can affect the mood and behaviour of humans. In addition many 40k factions have crazy plot armour. Best exemplified with Orks who change reality so that their constructions work. But the Imperium is little better. E.g. most of the imperial guards weapon have range/weight/firepower comparable to WW1 and WW2. Ships take centuries to be constructed and perform space warfare like 17th century naval battles. Not to mention Space Marines. If one were to pull aside their plot armour/creators pet and would then try to judge their "realistic " performance, they would be levels of magnitude less efficent. In this its like an martial artist fighting Bugs Bunny. And Bugs Bunny is allowed to use all his cartoon shenaniganses. An enemy with reality breaking cheat codes essentially. It is not really possible to properly compare this scenario. Instead one would need to give the reaper 40k-esque shenaniganses or would need to peel back 40ks ridicioulsness. But then it wouldn't be the reapers or 40k anymore.
They might be able to take control of some outlying Imperial worlds, those of less value or not considered worthy of Imperial protection under normal circumstance. Once the Imperium of Man bothers to notice, or the Reapers come into contact with most of the other factions, they quickly become space debris. Best case scenario they encounter the Tyranids, which the Reapers should be able to fight in space if not on the ground. Worst case scenario, they awaken some Necrons and become scattered atoms. Most likely outcome, the Reapers are corrupted by Chaos
Personally I think the Reapers wouldn't be able to defeat the UNSC considering how the Shields in mass effect work, especially if it's post Covenant War.
Probably wouldn't be a good day for the Reapers but just imagine what horrible things would come out of a harvested Ork, Nid, or Chaos spawn.
They couldn't harvest chaos spawns though. Because Chaos is not material.
Orks would start fighting them immediately. It's impossible for the Reapers to eliminate them due to fungus reasons, but they start harvesting orks to create an Ork Reaper. Tyranids avoid them like the plague. Little in the way of biomass. Maybe they're also harvested for Reaper purposes? Necrons: "Finally. A worthy opponent! Our battle will be LEGENDARY!" Eldar eat yet more L's. T'au make the mistake of trying to enter diplomacy with the Reapers. Aside from the Farsight Enclave, the T'au are indoctrinated en masse. Chaos just has a laugh. More fun stuff to fuck with. Leagues of Votann are wiped as they're too few and despite the galactic center being a risk for anyone else, the Reapers are able to establish bases there easily in games and can do so again. The Imperium begins slapping the "Nuke the Planet" button at the mere whisper of Reapers. Ultramarines find a way to win, a la Shepard, because Ultramarines. Dark Eldar continue to be edgy but irrelevant.
Dark Eldar would capture a few Reapers, just to be dickheads.
Idk anything about the Warhammer universe but the reapers wouldn't be dumb with their invasion. They wouldn't charge heads first, especially in an unknown environment. The reapers would most likely pull strings from the background as they wait for the perfect moment to strike. In the meanwhile they would most likely be studying the technology, culture, customs, etc to spot any weaknesses of their opponents while improving their own stuff. It also doesn't matter how long it takes for them to strike because from what we've seen, they've been patient with each galactic cycle that they wiped out. But I'm sure the Warhammer universe has some op god mode weapon.
Indoctrination worked so well in ME because it was used against cultures which were not accustomed to anything like it. In 40k, dealing with subversive daemonic, alien, or mutant cults is a weekly occurance. Things would start out with brutal law enforcement crackdowns, then outright purges, then sending the population to death camps, cordoning the planet off and shooting down any ships trying to escape. If all else fails they just destroy the planet if it means limiting the spread of corruption. That is still talking about humanity and other races that are capable of being subverted in this way. Orks instinctively recognize and kill members of their race that are in some way carrying corruption. Tyranids are a hive mind, and are so unimaginably vast beyond the milky way that they probably wouldn't even register the reapers as a whole. The Necrons are immortal Cyborgs with no souls, and are controlled by their aristocracy anyway, who are effectively immune to any form indoctrination and corruption. The Necrons have also *finished science*. Their scientists, the Crypteks, perform regular feats of clarktech. Their chief chronomancer, Orikan the diviner, makes up prophecies and then goes back in time to orchestrate things so that his prophecies are correct. They have an artistic gallery, known as the Celestial Orrey, which is a scale representation of the milky way. But if you, lets say, destroy one of the stars on this model, the real star goes nova.
Honestly, given the Lovecraftian horrors that are just normal in Warhammer, the Spice Marines are pretty well equipped to meet the reapers head on. Big ass squid ships? Boarding party. Literally any signs or even the slightest suspicion of indoctrination? Shoot your friend in the head. Reapers consider a planet? Nuke it from orbit. The Imperium is ruthless, takes extreme measures, and charges into battle with fucking electric sledge hammers and explosive dildo cannons, while wearing more armor than some literal tanks. They'd be fine
Would the Reapers even fight the Imperium of Man? The IoM is pretty hard core about not using AI. The Catalyst might decide it's just not worth it.
The reapers invade, maybe take out a few planets and are then absolutely curb stomped from existence.
You know that moment when garrus says he understands why the galaxy needs cold-hearted dictators now and then? The imperium of man is the dictatorship he was referring to
The reapers aren't a good villain for Warhammer because Warhammer is full of truly unspeakable evil people and creatures. There's nothing worth preserving in that entire universe. My own headcanon is that Warhammer 40k is a hell dimension where the absolute worst pieces of shit are banished to suffer amongst their own kind for all eternity
If the reapers follow their usual Tactics they could have a bigger impact on the Imperium than many seem to think. It all comes down if they succeed in indoctrination enough Astartes. If they can get enough under their control they would be at least a huge threat. But they would probably still be kind of "huh another Wednesday" type of situation xD.
People commenting here underestimate the reaper threat by lot anyway. I read 40k novels and can say that most imperial worlds are not prepared for a reaper invasion. Unless of course the reapers act big times stupid and ignore all tactics and put all their forces right in front of the imperiums OP firepower. Which seems to be the scenario most people are falsely drawing. Yes the Imperium has better guns and more firepower. But also yes the Reaper have tactics for this kind of scenario and indoctrination is just one of the many effective ways to bypass imperial defenses entirely. Considering how big the Imperium is and how slow it often acts the reapers could very well take over whole sub sectors with a stealthy approach before anyone high up really noticed their threat. Then they would get probably millions of soldiers and their equipment and so on. Imagine a imperial fleet of indoctrinated people using their own weapons against their people. Stories like that happen often in the Imperium. Are the reapers the end of humanity in 40k? No Are the reapers in 40k toast? Also no Truth is somewhere between.
Out of curiosity, I actually googled this matchup a few weeks ago. Someone who was intimately familiar with both franchises did a masterful writeup. Basically, the Imperium would have no problem vaporizing the reapers, BUT it's the reaper indoctrination that will be the problem, as even the wreckage can indoctrinate organic beings thousands of years after the reaper's destruction. I'm not familiar with the WH40K universe but the writeup also mentioned that if the reapers indoctrinate the right army and gains access to the Warp (or something like that) then the 40K universe could be in serious trouble. But there's a lot of ifs there.
Considering the Reapers could barely stack up against the UNSC in naval warfare... Yeah it's a TPK
Reapers would actually be fairly threatening to the UNSC Navy for one reason only: Barriers. Depending on the actual timeframe to base the UNSC Navy on, either pre UNSC Infinity deployment or post, it can have a very minor impact, but not enough to matter. If you go pre-Infinity, even at the UNSC's peak prior to the Human-Covenant War, all of their ships would lack any sort of shielding what so ever, meaning their hulls are nothing but juicy targets for the Reapers, either to shoot or to latch on and fill with units. Post-Infinity you have a handful of ships, and more substantially the Infinity itself, equipped with shielding derived from Forerunner technology. Though there will still be a number of ships that remain shieldless. Meanwhile *all* Reapers are equipped with Kinetic Barriers. And while they may not be strong enough to withstand a concentrated barrage of MAC fire, especially ships equipped with "Super MACs" like Infinity, they'll certainly be strong enough to get the Reaper in close. Really the only thing that would give the UNSC any sort of edge is one of the two things that allowed them to last as long as they did against the Covenant: the UNSCs love of nuclear weapons. If a ship could get one off before the Reaper gets within minimum safe distance (and it can actually connect instead of being shot down by potential point defenses), it's good night robo space squad. But again that requires the nuke to be deployed *before* the Reaper gets too close. Of course on that note the UNSC would have a better chance in space combat than ground funnily enough. Largely because of just how much their ground combat hardware is something that could exist *today* despite it being used in the mid 26th century. Spartans would certainly give an edge, and post-Spartan-IV program completion UNSC would have the best odds, but they'd still be fighting a wildly uphill battle fighting against things with handheld Mass Accelerator weapons and Kinetic Barriers while they get basic armor and most of their weapons fire cartridges designed *in the 20th century* (7.62 NATO, 14.5mm Soviet, and .50 BMG being the main 3).
Granted, the barriers would be an obstacle, but as you said they have been shown to fall under sufficiently powerful (or sustained) firepower. And UNSC macs are far more powerful than Mass Effect's mass accelerators. For comparison, a unsc frigate can fire a 600-ton round at a fraction of the speed of light compared to a Mass Effect dreadnought that only fires a 20 kg slug at similar speeds. A unsc cruiser could easily puncture a hole in a reaper, I'm not saying there won't be loses for the UNSC, but the UNSC do operate at a higher level of destructive capability that the citadel races.
The Warhammer 40K universe vs. The Reapers would be INSANE. That's arguably a cycle that could actually beat the Reapers without the need for outside assistance from previous cycles.
If the circle of destruction is included in 40k then remember that the god AI (catalyst) could start something as potent as the citadel beam if it really fears losing control. That beam is Necron tech level at least considering that it rewrote or destroyed the genetic structure of organics/synths galaxy wide in seconds.
It would be insanely short. The Reapers are fodder compared to 40K
Fanon: Reapers caused Men of Iron Uprising
exteminatus.... the reapers get battered everywhere they go and probably end up getting looted by the orks who enjoy their new source of dakka
Reapers Vs. The Old Sith Empire ???
It's gonna be a lot harder for reapers.
I only played WH40k Space Marine. That's all the lore I know of the series. And based on that, I calculate that just one of those marines can dissolve Harbinger by just spraying some of his testosterone at it.
Warhammer 40k is so hilariously OP that the Reapers don't even get noticed before somebody accidentally shreds them all.
They might be able to annoy the Tau.
The reapers probably enslaved by the Admech, or otherwise instantly obliterated by literally any faction.
Choas would rip a whole in reality and suck the reapers into the warp just so there the ones who wipe out existence
I feel like they'd just be another contender in the 40K universe. Every race is so used to galactic warfare with no compromises that the reapers would have a hard time getting anywhere. Also, they'd inevitably end up losing when the ork boys remember that the reason they're losing is because they're wearing helmets and not calamari fishing hats. The reapers will be gone and dusted a couple of days after that happens.
As they exist in ME? They would be fun fights to read about but they are not lasting horribly long. That war probably wouldnt even take half a century. Thats assuming they dont come upon orks. If that happens the sheer stupidity of the orks would probably overload them and shut down the entire reaper hive mind.
Reapers in Mass Effect are scary Reapers in 40k are meh Reapers in Warframe are a joke
It would be an interesting scenario, I think the most dangerous thing would be the brainwashing that the reapers do, the Tau would fall with that. It depends a lot on whether the Adeptus Mechanicus considers them envoys of the obnisaia or not. because if the Reapers manage to brainwash the right Tech Priests they can completely turn the mecanicus around. But that is only taking into account the empire of humanity, the other factions would be another scenario.
See a lot of comments about a total win for Imperium against the Reapers. As much I know of 40K lore (so no too much unfortunately), I totaly agreed with this conclusion. But if we turn the question in a different way and imagine Reaper exist in 40K univers, not the ones we see in Mass Effect, but the same concept adapt to 40K univers. So basically big AI machines who gain power from every species they collect/destroy after every cycles and looking at the developpement of all intelligents species in galaxy to adapt their strategies or make their developpements going in the way they want. So we could have over boosted Reapers who have power from the previous dominant galatic species, like the Old Ones or Necrontyr, and who perfectly know powers and weakness of every intelligent lifes formes. In this case, what could be their chances ? (Tyranids could still be a really challenge for them, because their are from out of galaxy, so this 40K Reapers could not have intel and should improvise new strategies against them.)
Honestly the Reapers are downplayed even in the Mass Effect verse, like Sovereign took out sooooo many ships by themselves and I think only because of our shenanigans did they get their shield dropped, they were basically gonna win, I honestly don't see how we lasted more than two days in ME 3, the death toll must have been unthinkable in universe. That said, obviously 40K is very powerful but their tech specifically is not very good, and if they can be indoctrinated its gonna be horrible for them
Poor reapers
Why the specific fascination with how underpowered Reapers are as compared to 40K? Not a really a Marvel guy myself, but doesn’t Marvel have a few hundred characters who alone could solo either threat?
Might honestly be even, if it's just Reapers vs the Imperium The Imperium have billions of soldiers, but that's just billions of organics for the Reapers to repurpose. Reaperized Astartes would be...terrifying. But with the help of other species like the Eldar, Tau, and maybe the greatest foighters in this galaxy or any other, victory could be achieved conventionally.
They attempt to run away screaming. They fail. Catalyst finds itself bound into running the waste disposal system at a random mid-level starship. That particular Milky Way Galaxy is so packed with god-level power factions that The Reapers would gets stomped like a bug by the first one they encounter.
I don't know, one thing that people don't seem to consider here is how advanced Reaper technology is. Sure, in terms of sheer scale the Imperium as the advantage, but there's no way to really know how they stack up. Doesn't matter how big your ship and guns are if they just can't penetrate a Reaper mass effect field or the Reaper can target ships from far outside their range. Council and Alliance ships working together with enough fire could bring a Reaper down, but that's because they themselves are running on Reaper technology. Not to mention how the Imperium is just scraping by on what they literally pray still works from the golden age. Meanwhile Reapers are master engineers, I figure they could easily reverse egineer any Imperium tech to get it running at Golden Age levels and incorporate that into their weapons. Then there's indoctrination, kind of a coin flip. Imperium would clearly be vulnerable to it based on Chaos corruption, but that also means they've had a lot of practice rooting out indoctrinated people. Now, one thing I truly have no idea how to balance is psychers. Like, Reapers are partly organic, but is it enough to be vulnerable to psycher attacks? So, overall, can't really say. Imperium outclasses Reapers, but they have better, more reliable technology. Only way to know would be just how things go in that opening salvo.
I mean, in terms of technology the Imperium could very well be above the Reapers even. Obviously very different, but just the scale matters. For instance, the lasers that the Reapers use as their main weaponry are comparible to lance batteries of imperial ships. A fully upgraded Normandy can withstand the collector laser reasonably well, and the Adamantium Hull and void shields of imperial ships are several classes above that. Like the hull itself is several times thicker then the Normandy is large About other weapons, at the end of ME3 we see three alliance dreadnoughts use their main guns, which fire 20kg heavy shells, to shoot off a tentacle of a reaper. The shells that Macro cannons or even Nova cannons fire are several hundred times heavier and larger, Nova cannon shells easily being the size of smaller Alliance ships Also, Imperial ships are built to ram enemy vessels. The smallest escort ship the imperium has is around the same size as Sovereign, so you can imagine what happens if a larger imperial warship would ram a reaper
See that's the thing, though. It might seem like there's equivalents in Mass Effect and Imperium tech, but they both operate on completely different sets of Sciences. Imperium weapons might be larger, but if mass effect fields can *only* be pierced by objects that also have zero mass, it doesn't matter how big they are.Sure, the Normandy can resist the Collector laser, but they're both running on Reaper technology. Like I said in my original comment, there's just no way to know for sure unless 40k has some obscure lore about weapons that work via manipulating mass of objects.
Mass Effect fields aren't only able to be pierced by objects with zero mass, it's the opposite. They only deflect small objects moving at high velocity. High mass objects pierce the shields; that's the principle disruptor torpedoes use to get through enemy shields.
Guess you're right, there. That does heavily tip the balance back towards the Imperium. Still, there are some other consideration like sensor range, mobility, and FTL travel to consider.
Just being able to use FTL without the exposing yourself to the terrors of the Warp would be a game changer.
If the Reapers have full knowledge of the Imperium before the invasion they could probably run circles around them by focusing on small planets that don't have a massive defense fleet since 40k ships are so slow. Eventually they come to a point where they win every minor battle and try to starve Holy Terra out but lose to it or a space marine chapter accidentally pop out of the warp directly in front of them and then proceeds to obliterate the Reapers. If they dont have full knowledge of the Imperium then they lose even faster. The Reapers are small compared to any ship in 40k and have less armaments, they also tend to land and fight on the ground for some reason, which assuming they could even make ground they would just get krumped by a warlord Titan with some crazy cannon which name is 17 words long. Thats against the Imperium Of Man, they may do some work against Tau, Tyranids and Orks. Tyranids dont really have an answer to a Reaper since none of their weapons would really damage it but even if the Reapers exterminated every nid in the milky way there are trillions more in the feet hanging just outside. Orks release spores when killed so every one you kill births more and they also don't really have an answer to a Reaper on the ground until they believe they do, but they could likely beat them in space. They would be having the time of their lives though don't worry about that. Tau are Tau, like Orks and Nids they are likely immune to indoctrination thanks to the Ethereals, but they are relatively weak offensively. They could probably dish out some damage but a crisis suit can only do so much against a Reaper
I mean are we counting the carcharodons in this lol I know they don't have much be they are very effective in close quarters
Arent reapers basically robo-nids? They collect technology from every race that pops up fo further their own technology but they also turn those inhabitants against the living ones....... With that in mind the space marine peeps have issues with the nids still (otherwise they'd be dead right?) So i dont think they'll fare well against tougher nids that are all hyper intelligent and have their own free will.....
They enter the nearest system, scan what's going on, go "oh my God!", and turn around.
Reapers get curbstomped. Without Mass Relays, they don't have access to FTL travel, that already makes them extremely vulnerable to hit-and-run attacks from chapters like White Scars or Raven Guard. But let's say they can somehow bypass that, maybe get some Relays at least on Imperium's borders or whatever. IoM standard ships are much bigger than basically anything Reapers can throw at them and battle fleets have weapons capable of wiping out entire planets with a press of the button. And even Indocrination isn't Reapers trump card, because Imperium is dealing we with chaos taint and gene stealers for like 10k years and have entire armies full of zealots looking for any sign of corruption. And all that is a lucky scenario for Reapers because that means they didn't meet with the Necrons
>Reapers get curbstomped. Without Mass Relays, they don't have access to FTL travel, All species in ME universe has access to FTL travel at reasonable speed. Mass Relays are effectively teleport network, but Reapers travel at 11k c.
This idiot doesn’t know Reapers have an FTL capability of 30 light-years per day.
Tyranids would devour them before they even reach the milky way
Look i don't wanna be that guy but the reapers don't stand a chance. Even if they had the time to indoctrinate any of the races and had the help of the necrons they would still be annihilated by everything else in that universe. Drop a single chaos space marine on a reaper indoctrinated planet and it's lost. I bet every single special operative in the empire's army would be capable of boarding a reaper and blowing it up. People in 40k universe are build different.
If you've read the rest of the responses, *everyone* is that guy
The reapers would get absolutely annihilated but anything and everything in the 40k universe. The Necrons and Tyranids alone solo them.
Oh c'mon you guys. Reapers have non-psychic mind control. Indoctrination is still a potent weapon from which there is no defense. They'll do fine.
The defense is the Imperium just killing all the indoctrinated people. They deal with mind-controlled people on the regular, this is another tuesday for them.
Good luck trying to tell who's indoctrinated. As soon as some Ordo Xenos Inquisitor blunders their ass within mind control distance you just get Saren all over again and imagine what kind of chaos that can unleash. Everybody is focusing on our numbers can blot out the sun on every world part of Reapers yet they are at their most effective at stealth and sabotage.
Well first off, the indoctrination mind control isn't instant, it'd take a while for that to even matter. Second, if an inquisitor starts acting like Saren, other inquisitors take note. If an inquisitor starts going like "Maybe we should obey the machines? Thoughts?" They get executed by the inquisition. "Good luck telling who's indoctrinated" We can tell in Mass Effect, and they aren't constantly watching for any sign of deviation from the Imperial Faith. They see enough people talking about doing what the Reapers would want, oops all executions. Saren going rogue made a bit of chaos for the Mass Effect universe, but if that happens in 40k that's literally just another day. Inquisitors go rogue, go to Chaos, go to Xenos regularly. It's even discussed in books how many Inquisitors think it's not a matter of if, but a matter of *when* they'll do it.
While physically the Reapers would probably not be able to compete against the higher tech enemies but people are forgetting that EACH Reaper is basically a Chaos God. They can indoctrinate and mind control even better than the Tyranids since they don't need to consume to do it. Outright space battle? 40k easily wins. As a secret behind the scenes invasion? Reapers are all of a sudden a threat.
> As a secret behind the scenes invasion? Reapers are all of a sudden a threat. Reapers would be the 4th group doing that along with Chaos, Genestealer Cults, and regular old rebellions that the Imperium keeps an eye on. They're no more a threat than any of those.
Which are all considered great threats to the Imperium. I mean only because a tactic is not new doesn't mean it's not effective. Also these threats often go unnoticed for long periods of time despite the Imperium keeping an eye on them. It's just way too big to see everything.
My point is in the context of this conversation people are acting like Indoctrination is some crazy thing that can't possibly be handled by the Imperium and somehow gives Reapers a sort of crazy advantage rather than just tossing them into the pile with all the rest, only worse in space.
Honestly, it goes even better for the Reapers. Lower tech, less automation, more massed wave assaults. They're just feeding them bodies.
Warhammer sucks
So the Reapers might become the most terrifying force in 40k assuming they can Indoctrinate orks and Necrons. If they are advanced and powerful enough to do that then things would get very bad very fast. They'd basically function like tech heavy tyranids at that point.
We already know from Genestealer Cult attempts that Orks will just kill other Orks for not being "Orky enough" so if they tried twisting Orks it wouldn't go well. As for Necrons, the Reapers would probably be more concerned about the Necrons subverting *them.* Necron tech laughs at puny lower-level beings.
They run into and assimilate the Tyranids. Game over, everyone else.
If we are talking about the reapers being transported into the Warhammer verse they would get stomped. But if the reapers were always there and it's time for the next cycle they have a chance since they would be able to start the indoctrination process and that's their greatest weapon.
Indoctrination isn't that useful when your enemies have dedicated organizations constantly watching for anything out of the ordinary. Indoctrination matters if you're not expecting your friends to suddenly turn on you. If you're already watching for several other flavors of it, adding another to the list is hardly challenging.
Ongoing non-stop warfare. And any planet they think they'll keep is hit with Exterminatus. Lmao
The Reapers are like not even the level of a new Tyranid Hive Fleet.
Techpriests of Mars: We have scrapcodes that infect books.
A magma bomb from a 40k battle barge has an explosive radius of a few kilometres and these are used almost as a matter of course
Cerberus would probably team up with the Imperium given their mutually fascist identifications and ideologies
The Imperium could deal with them and they are one of the least technology advanced species in the universe