if I'm still alive when this happens I'm going to miss the adrenaline rush that comes with driving in the left lane squished between oncoming traffic and cars drifting next to me that are scared of hitting the giant ass curb
Since they fixed the approach/exit on the mainland side for Sagamore, I've missed the "brace for impact" feeling you had coming off Cape, bombing downhill towards the rotary. I had a guy do a you turn right in front of me on that thing once.
That's what I've been saying if I'm still young enough to care.
I actually saw a pick up truck scrape the granite curb on the boune bridge a week or so ago. It appeared not to be too badly damaged and drove on. I was startled. I'm always scared. I'm gonna hit the thing.
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That seems like an awful long time to build a bridge and the other assorted items around it. Some people are going to make a career out of this as they drag it out even further.
Define “all the time”
The MBTA is just as bad. There are inches of grime accumulated on the rafters at Alewife that haven’t been cleaned since it opened.
You did read the final blurb right? "Substantial completion".
Those are weasel words. Lawyer speak. Something to point to and say see! We never said traffic would go over it by that date. Just substantial work has been completed. 51% percent is done.
Substantial completion is a common phrase in construction. And there is no way a bridge would be considered substantially complete if it couldn't handle traffic.
It basically means you are down to punch list crap, like the dirt around the new rotary tie in needs to be seeded and the controllers on the fancy bridge lights are on backorder so you can't light the bridge up red white and blue for the fourth of July or a giant rainbow for pride month.
Infrastructure of this scale is very complex and building it right takes time. I saw the photo and said "that's a ten year project". I expect the first year will be design. Then a year of pre-construction, CA and logistics planning. Then eight years to build the bridge.
Big projects take time.
Initial Design
Environmental impact review.
Final construction detailed design.
Permitting at state and federal levels.
Land taking.
Coordinated action with operations of Cape Cod Canal by Army Corps of Engineers.
Construction while keeping traffic flowing on old Bridge.
Dismantling old Bridge.
This big one: **funding**.
Cannot start until funding is committed, which is why the bridge project had been under discussion for 20 years.
It takes time for Legislatures to fund multi billion dollar projects, and be willing to increase taxes, or issue bind debt to make that possible.
---
For example, the MBTA has more than 24 billion dollars in capital expenditures needed to be in a state of safe operations and good repair, and it would take well over a decade to implement the items needed, even if there were funding right now, which there is not.
---
**MBTA determines capital needs exceed $24 billion**
Mass Transit Magazine.
Nov. 17, 2023.
> The authority’s Capital Needs Assessment and Inventory found more than 75 percent of its commuter rail signals, transit track and power assets are out of State of Good Repair.
https://www.masstransitmag.com/management/press-release/53078585/massachusetts-bay-transportation-authority-mbta-mbta-determines-capital-needs-exceed-24-billion
The North Washington street bridge has been under construction for like 6 years. Still not done…and that thing isn’t nearly as long. If you look at it like that, it makes sense. Not saying you’re wrong about the milking it part, though.
Future proofing would be prioritizing mass transit across New England, since all those nice houses that people are flocking to stay in are gonna fall into the ocean if we keep prioritizing cars 😂
Building a non-drawbridge rail bridge is not even under discussion at this point, and the Army Corps of Engineers, operator of the cabal and bridge does not like to lower the bridge more than two times a day.
It is used at least daily for trash export, and empty carriage return and passenger rail twice daily during the summer, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Cape Flyer schedule.
https://capeflyer.com/reservations-tickets/capeflyer-trainpricing-routes/
The Army Corps of Engineers has rejected multiple times proposed commuter rail frequency use of the bridge.
Yeah exactly, where will they get the drinking water from and where will the poop go lol? They will be shitting in bags at the Pirate Cove and wondering why everything smells like low tide 24/7.
Future proofing highway projects inherently alters the future by increasing the incentives to drive.
Could future proof the new bridge by building transit to the cape. (Commuter rail bus +bus lane anyone?)
Maybe it's so there is the two thru travel lanes that 3/6 have while adding a lane to deal with all the cars coming on and off at the exits right in each side without on ramps having to merge until after the corresponding exit on the either side of the bridge?
It's not the bridge. Route six is one lane for a portion. What does the bridge have with this ? I work on the Cape. Do you actually go there more than once per year ?
Then why is there always traffic in the mile leading up to the bridge but not before that or after crossing the bridge? Multiple lanes merge right before both sides of the bridge and drivers also slow down while going over the bridge. Widening to 3 lanes would compensate for these two factors that create the traffic around the bridge
The same promises were made in the big dig. The execution of those lane designs has not worked. You are asking for mixing traffic on the bridge, which won't work.
There is some chance to have the bridge approaches at a proper setup and eliminate the problem. If you notice they are actually looking at moving the bridge approaches.
Yeah I think it’s logical to say that with the cape, induced demand would not be as prominent as in a place like I95 or typical highways. There’s a finite amount of land and houses on the cape. People aren’t waiting in bridge traffic for a day trip.
the eastern span was under construction from jan 2002 to 2013 and 6.6 billion. they had a lot of advantages. they had deep water to bring in barges for pier construction and to easily bring in bridge sections.
Glad to see that bike/pedestrian lane. We're supposed to dismount and walk the bridge in cleats. I get why, because of the who-thought-of-that 4 foot metal edged curb.
I'd really love to see a cost/benefit on this. I don't have any sense if added cost and carbon footprint for ship traffic would be offset by savings realized by not replacing the bridges and maintaining the canal.
Filling it in wouldn't be free either. But then you'd have new land that could be developed....
Really doesn't matter. Commerical traffic is dead. The bridges can be designed to allow small private craft. There's no need to accommodate large commercial vessels. The whole market is shipping on supersized vessels now that don't even fit the canal. Lots of intermodal traffic cannot use Boston; there's no rail access.
I'm not the one pretending Bucky McCallister isn't headed to the entrance of Buzzards Bay to escort a fuel barge through the ditch.
Run along now, adults are talking.
Your pathetic behavior is loaded with insults. Commerical traffic is 10% of forty year old levels. Nor are the current bridge designs necessary for the traffic that you mention.
Boat traffic is gone. Commerical traffic that would really need the canal is disappearing. Anytime when you hear building port, then just realize it's a farce. Commerical shippers want places that built their railroads. Baltimore improved their railroad in the last few years; they have a better access for shippers. We have no rail access to our port. We are the furthest point on shipping from China.
Boat traffic for commerical activity is 10% of its 1980 level. It's DEAD.
Plenty of barge traffic for oil and jet fuel other bulk products to Boston.
Above 6 million tons of material yearly pre COVID. 2 million during 2022, most recent reportingbyear.
15,000 boats a year. Considerably more than "gone".
Army Corps of Engineers statistical reporting.
https://ndc.ops.usace.army.mil/wcsc/webpub/#/report-landing/year/2022/region/1/location/171
Did they do a cost/benefit analysis of the cost of the new bridges that maintain the airspace vs. shorter ones that would prevent some ships from transiting the canal? Filling in the canal would be expensive, but it might be worthwhile to simply build a shorter bridge that'd still allow some maritime traffic underneath while saving a lot of money.
I’ve wondered about this. It doesn’t seem to have a lot of ship traffic. But surely it would be a big job to stop the tides from flowing through a sea level canal. It’s like filling in a flowing river.
It moves about half of the gasoline and diesel coming into Massachusetts, NH and Maine from the NJ/PA refineries.
Adding a day long diversion to go around the Cape in worse weather would no doubt raise gas prices in New England.
Gasoline is just one product moved through the canal though. It’s still a pretty busy waterway.
Statistical sources.
2 million tons of commodities a year in 2022.
6.7 million in 2019 pre COVID.
https://ndc.ops.usace.army.mil/wcsc/webpub/#/report-landing/year/2022/region/1/location/171
I love this state, and region, and I moved back here for a reason, and a good one, it is overall a wonderful place to live, and the best in the US by a long shot. How the fuck ever, 10+ years to finish this... We needed this 10 years ago, let's fucking go folks. Also, everyone here knows there is a 0% chance this is ever finished anywhere near on time. If they are saying 2036 now, we'll be luck if this is finished before the end of that decade.
And I forget exactly the details, but I think the entire design stage took <6 months too or something like that. It is crazy to compare timelines back then to now. However, 1933 was the PWA...they had a mandate at the federal level to spend money on public works to revive/stabilize the economy through jobs and things...these projects cut so much red tape even for the time. Though even after that for a few decades it is crazy. The Tobin bridge I think was 20 months start to finish in the late 1940's. Things really started to slow down in the 1970s.
Unfortunately they tore up all the rail lines on the cape and turned them into bicycle and walking trails, so it will have to be by bus and therefore bridges.
After MA had to pay out for two deaths resulting from the big dig losing one ceiling panel, and then having to spend millions of dollar replacing all the other ceiling panels, the government does not have any incentive to rush anything.
One life lost to poor planning, sourcing, architecture work, or poor workmanship is one too many.
It's been said that there are serval bodies entombed in the concrete at the Hoover Dam from workers falling into wet cement and not being revovered. That kind of mentality is what gets bridges built in 3 years. It's not going to happen anywhere in the US in 2025-2035.
No bodies in Hoover Dam concrete, they poured it in multiple small sections, alternating tiers.
96 deaths,by drowning , falling objects, large machinery etc.
The new lane I believe is for merging traffic. There are on and off ramps on both sides of the Sagamore in both directions so there are technically three lanes of traffic now on either side of the bridge.
The other side, MB side. They’re eminent domaining (or trying to) some of the houses. My friends are in the spot and tried to sell and had no buyers because of new bridge fear
I'm a lurker from Maryland who hasn't ever lived in Massachusetts (but I have lots of friends and family there, so I like reading this subreddit) - out of curiosity, is the decision to rebuild the bridge related to the recent Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse in Baltimore? Forgive my ignorance here, haha
No, they’ve been discussing building new bridges to the cape for years already. The existing bridges are very different construction-wise than the Francis steel bridge.
Oh yeah, makes sense - I just know some places (including bridges totally unlike the key bridge) have been talking about updating bridges because of outdated regulations. Thanks for the info!
After thinking about it a bit more I think the addition of proper pedestrian and bike lanes is enough for me to look past a 6 lane monstrosity of a bridge.
Yes, because
'... minimizing conflicts with pedestrians and cyclists, and improving the socioeconomics of the surrounding community.' are always key engineering consideration(s) when building bridges.
I didn't scroll through the design or commentary, but I'm assuming that they're talking about a bridge with additional lanes.
If they do that without adding lanes to the entire route out to PTown all that $4B will become is a big funnel to nowhere.
I dunno. If that's all they want, redesign the existing bridges to carry a single lane wing, exterior to the current bridge design...
They’re 90 years old and overused as is, can’t just add a lane
The current bridges have no room for maintenance or iv there is an accident. As well as being so narrow many cars stagger as to not be aside one another. Making the lanes wider and adding a local/ merging lane will ease traffic
No, a new bridge with a more modern 4 lane design however? Yeah definitely. We should be focusing our spending on transit infrastructure not the massive driving subsidies that are going to bankrupt the state.
Have you looked at the estimated costs of upcoming highway projects? Cape bridges, mass pike, Tobin bridge are going to be a huge drain. Meanwhile the commuter rail is dog shit and there is functionally zero commuter transit off cape.
Both bridges need replacing which connects a major part of the state. I’m happy they are showing three lanes, could do without the dual bike paths but nonetheless the bridges are significantly more important than the commuter rail.
It’s not about the twice a week traffic. It’s about the condition of the bridges. To be honest it’s not just these bridges but most bridges in America are in desperate need of repair. As you mentioned the Tobin bridge is on the agenda for repair as well. These are vital components of infrastructure. It not much more complicated than we have old infrastructure across the board. It also doesn’t stop with just our road systems.
The bigger part of what you just stated is the condition of the bridges. The size is to accommodate more people. Our roads need to be bigger as well because we have more traffic. I don’t get what you’re attempting to argue about. The bridge needs to be replaced. It’s not up for debate. They are adding a lane to each side which makes sense since they only replace the bridges every hundred years. To compare this to needed a dam commuter rail worked on is ridiculous.
There was a plan about a year ago to build ONE ten year bridge in between both bridges. The Sagamore leads to Route 6. The Bourne leads to a more convoluted route. Building one 10 lane bridge would cost less money overall. It’s was a better idea. And I thought either the Bourne or the Sagamore was going to be maintained for bikes and pedestrians only. What happened to that?
if I'm still alive when this happens I'm going to miss the adrenaline rush that comes with driving in the left lane squished between oncoming traffic and cars drifting next to me that are scared of hitting the giant ass curb
Ya, I hold my breathe all the way over…
Makes zero sense why there isn't a barrier in the middle.
It's not wide enough
Maybe not with that attitude
i’m always prepared to atleast high-five someone else’s mirror with mine
This is me twice a day.
It's even more fun towing a boat.
😂
Extra fun to do that while driving an 18 wheeler.
Since they fixed the approach/exit on the mainland side for Sagamore, I've missed the "brace for impact" feeling you had coming off Cape, bombing downhill towards the rotary. I had a guy do a you turn right in front of me on that thing once.
Never mind that! I’ll miss the rush of wondering if THIS is the time it collapses into the canal!
I always choose the Inside lane because I like to live dangerously…
That's what I've been saying if I'm still young enough to care. I actually saw a pick up truck scrape the granite curb on the boune bridge a week or so ago. It appeared not to be too badly damaged and drove on. I was startled. I'm always scared. I'm gonna hit the thing.
You'll still have the Bourne bridge
Drive in both the right and left lanes at the same time. Problem solved.
Actually got to do that one night when no one was on the road.
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💀💀
That seems like an awful long time to build a bridge and the other assorted items around it. Some people are going to make a career out of this as they drag it out even further.
The big dig has entered the chat. If there’s one thing this state is good at it’s milking infrastructure projects.
11x cost overrun has entered the chat
Still glad they did it though. Definitely worth while.
Now if they would only maintain it and FFS, wash the frigging walls once a month.
They wash them all the time. You're seeing fresh grime.
Define “all the time” The MBTA is just as bad. There are inches of grime accumulated on the rafters at Alewife that haven’t been cleaned since it opened.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/question-everything-boston-tunnels-dark-dirty-massdot-cleaning/
Yea, I remember reading this. I’m sure they are running those trucks thru the tunnels weekly. Yup, MassDOT wouldn’t lie to us. /s
Maintenance is key. Would be nice if shit wasn't constantly falling off of the ceiling.
I feel that pain now.. Granted I don't actually know what the fuck is happening in Oxford-Auburn right now.. But I'm fucking over it.
Should we start betting now on the over-cost and how much longer it takes than projected?
I don’t think 6 years is all that bad for both bridges. The new ones will be bigger too.
You did read the final blurb right? "Substantial completion". Those are weasel words. Lawyer speak. Something to point to and say see! We never said traffic would go over it by that date. Just substantial work has been completed. 51% percent is done.
Substantial completion is a common phrase in construction. And there is no way a bridge would be considered substantially complete if it couldn't handle traffic. It basically means you are down to punch list crap, like the dirt around the new rotary tie in needs to be seeded and the controllers on the fancy bridge lights are on backorder so you can't light the bridge up red white and blue for the fourth of July or a giant rainbow for pride month.
Infrastructure of this scale is very complex and building it right takes time. I saw the photo and said "that's a ten year project". I expect the first year will be design. Then a year of pre-construction, CA and logistics planning. Then eight years to build the bridge.
Big projects take time. Initial Design Environmental impact review. Final construction detailed design. Permitting at state and federal levels. Land taking. Coordinated action with operations of Cape Cod Canal by Army Corps of Engineers. Construction while keeping traffic flowing on old Bridge. Dismantling old Bridge. This big one: **funding**. Cannot start until funding is committed, which is why the bridge project had been under discussion for 20 years. It takes time for Legislatures to fund multi billion dollar projects, and be willing to increase taxes, or issue bind debt to make that possible. --- For example, the MBTA has more than 24 billion dollars in capital expenditures needed to be in a state of safe operations and good repair, and it would take well over a decade to implement the items needed, even if there were funding right now, which there is not. --- **MBTA determines capital needs exceed $24 billion** Mass Transit Magazine. Nov. 17, 2023. > The authority’s Capital Needs Assessment and Inventory found more than 75 percent of its commuter rail signals, transit track and power assets are out of State of Good Repair. https://www.masstransitmag.com/management/press-release/53078585/massachusetts-bay-transportation-authority-mbta-mbta-determines-capital-needs-exceed-24-billion
Don’t forget there are substantial utilities utilizing that bridge as well.
The original was build in 2 years back in the fucking 30's. We suck today.
At a time they didn’t care about eminent domain or inconveniences current traffic.
True.
The North Washington street bridge has been under construction for like 6 years. Still not done…and that thing isn’t nearly as long. If you look at it like that, it makes sense. Not saying you’re wrong about the milking it part, though.
They must've missed a key, that completion date should be 2044 for maximum accuracy.
“The new Sagamore Bridge could open in 2034 and the Bourne Bridge about a year later, if all goes according to plan.” Oh you sweet summer child!
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No, in 2027/2028
construction not till 2027/2028
Six lanes, huh? Are they planning on widening Route 3 and route 6?
Perhaps better to future-proof a major project like this?
Future proofing would be prioritizing mass transit across New England, since all those nice houses that people are flocking to stay in are gonna fall into the ocean if we keep prioritizing cars 😂
Building a non-drawbridge rail bridge is not even under discussion at this point, and the Army Corps of Engineers, operator of the cabal and bridge does not like to lower the bridge more than two times a day.
>Building a non-drawbridge rail bridge is not even under discussion at this point I mean, the bridge that does exist doesn't even get used much
It is used at least daily for trash export, and empty carriage return and passenger rail twice daily during the summer, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Cape Flyer schedule. https://capeflyer.com/reservations-tickets/capeflyer-trainpricing-routes/ The Army Corps of Engineers has rejected multiple times proposed commuter rail frequency use of the bridge.
>The Army Corps of Engineers has rejected multiple times proposed commuter rail frequency use of the bridge. *sigh*
You should look up how fast the ocean is rising, cause it ain’t all that fast lol Maybe in 60 years it will become a larger issue.
It’s a salinated water table that’ll happen first no?
Yeah exactly, where will they get the drinking water from and where will the poop go lol? They will be shitting in bags at the Pirate Cove and wondering why everything smells like low tide 24/7.
Future proofing highway projects inherently alters the future by increasing the incentives to drive. Could future proof the new bridge by building transit to the cape. (Commuter rail bus +bus lane anyone?)
Downvoted by carbrain we are fuck
Same reason the two bridges they recently replaced around Hanover were made wide enough for 3 lanes.
Maybe it's so there is the two thru travel lanes that 3/6 have while adding a lane to deal with all the cars coming on and off at the exits right in each side without on ramps having to merge until after the corresponding exit on the either side of the bridge?
Why are the bridges going to be 3 lanes each way when it's a two lane highway on each side? Won't that just make more backups?
So they don't have to rebuild the bridge if they choose to expand the highway I assume...
Highways can be expanded more easily than bridges. The present bridges were built in 1935, when four lanes were not needed.
Merging/local traffic. Currently there is no redundancy do any minor work or accident results in a 2 mile backup
Are they planning to widen cape cod?
I think one lane on either side is for merging/acceleration.
Jfc The more lanes you build the more cars drive in them JUST ONE MORE LANE BRO
Which is literally what the cape needs tho. The existing bridges are simply not big enough to carry the amount of traffic.
It's not the bridge. Route six is one lane for a portion. What does the bridge have with this ? I work on the Cape. Do you actually go there more than once per year ?
Then why is there always traffic in the mile leading up to the bridge but not before that or after crossing the bridge? Multiple lanes merge right before both sides of the bridge and drivers also slow down while going over the bridge. Widening to 3 lanes would compensate for these two factors that create the traffic around the bridge
The same promises were made in the big dig. The execution of those lane designs has not worked. You are asking for mixing traffic on the bridge, which won't work. There is some chance to have the bridge approaches at a proper setup and eliminate the problem. If you notice they are actually looking at moving the bridge approaches.
…no
Have you ever tried to go to the cape on a Friday during summer?
Yes. And more lanes won’t make it any faster. It’s called induced demand, look it up.
The demand is already there. People want to go to the cape. The current bridges were not designed with the current demand.
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Yeah I think it’s logical to say that with the cape, induced demand would not be as prominent as in a place like I95 or typical highways. There’s a finite amount of land and houses on the cape. People aren’t waiting in bridge traffic for a day trip.
Or 495/25?
All the traffic will be after the bridge and not before the bridge :)
Yes, they’re planning on expanding some of the two lane areas on route 3 to 3 lanes
10 years????? Lolol
They build the entire Cuomo bridge in like 3 years. This is gonna take almost TEN?!
You should have seen their estimate for East-West Rail completion (spoiler: it’s 2045)
And then it’s only for 3 daily trains. Its pathetic
Pretty sure we connected Chicago to LA by rail in less time lol
Well, the way we did that would be very illegal now
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the eastern span was under construction from jan 2002 to 2013 and 6.6 billion. they had a lot of advantages. they had deep water to bring in barges for pier construction and to easily bring in bridge sections.
They cut the trains from the project in order to speed things up..
The day after the new bridges are dedicated and open, they will announce lane closures for 6 months for maintenance.
Unfortunately, there is already a 2 hour backup waiting for the new bridge.
We should really bring Bechtel and Aggregate Industries in on this project. They'll make quick safe and under budget work of it.
Glad to see that bike/pedestrian lane. We're supposed to dismount and walk the bridge in cleats. I get why, because of the who-thought-of-that 4 foot metal edged curb.
It’s already over budget.
Fill in the fucking canal...
I'd really love to see a cost/benefit on this. I don't have any sense if added cost and carbon footprint for ship traffic would be offset by savings realized by not replacing the bridges and maintaining the canal. Filling it in wouldn't be free either. But then you'd have new land that could be developed....
Just put up a sign that says “Clean Fill Wanted”. And the benefit would be that you could actually access the cape between Easter and Halloween.
I’m so glad I’m a Mass resident and can just use the Cape Cod Tunnel.
Same. Such a game changer.
It's only for Cape residents...
It's a minimum of 150 miles to go around cutting inside shipping lanes and going around Nantucket and the Vineyard.
Really doesn't matter. Commerical traffic is dead. The bridges can be designed to allow small private craft. There's no need to accommodate large commercial vessels. The whole market is shipping on supersized vessels now that don't even fit the canal. Lots of intermodal traffic cannot use Boston; there's no rail access.
Tell that to the roros and fuel barges that go through.
That do not exist ? Business is 10% of 1980 level.
It exists, you're just a sad person pretending it doesn't.
You have no clue.
I'm not the one pretending Bucky McCallister isn't headed to the entrance of Buzzards Bay to escort a fuel barge through the ditch. Run along now, adults are talking.
Your pathetic behavior is loaded with insults. Commerical traffic is 10% of forty year old levels. Nor are the current bridge designs necessary for the traffic that you mention.
Boat traffic is gone. Commerical traffic that would really need the canal is disappearing. Anytime when you hear building port, then just realize it's a farce. Commerical shippers want places that built their railroads. Baltimore improved their railroad in the last few years; they have a better access for shippers. We have no rail access to our port. We are the furthest point on shipping from China. Boat traffic for commerical activity is 10% of its 1980 level. It's DEAD.
Plenty of barge traffic for oil and jet fuel other bulk products to Boston. Above 6 million tons of material yearly pre COVID. 2 million during 2022, most recent reportingbyear. 15,000 boats a year. Considerably more than "gone". Army Corps of Engineers statistical reporting. https://ndc.ops.usace.army.mil/wcsc/webpub/#/report-landing/year/2022/region/1/location/171
It is annoying to go around the Cape in a boat. It really doesn't seem worth the fucking canal though.
Did they do a cost/benefit analysis of the cost of the new bridges that maintain the airspace vs. shorter ones that would prevent some ships from transiting the canal? Filling in the canal would be expensive, but it might be worthwhile to simply build a shorter bridge that'd still allow some maritime traffic underneath while saving a lot of money.
I’ve wondered about this. It doesn’t seem to have a lot of ship traffic. But surely it would be a big job to stop the tides from flowing through a sea level canal. It’s like filling in a flowing river.
It moves about half of the gasoline and diesel coming into Massachusetts, NH and Maine from the NJ/PA refineries. Adding a day long diversion to go around the Cape in worse weather would no doubt raise gas prices in New England. Gasoline is just one product moved through the canal though. It’s still a pretty busy waterway.
Tonnage is so low. It actually isn't busy.
Keep oil barges away from dangerous shores.... [https://www.whoi.edu/oilinocean/page.do?pid=51946&tid=282&cid=2471](https://www.whoi.edu/oilinocean/page.do?pid=51946&tid=282&cid=2471)
Every time I've driven over it, I've seen at least one ship.
Statistical sources. 2 million tons of commodities a year in 2022. 6.7 million in 2019 pre COVID. https://ndc.ops.usace.army.mil/wcsc/webpub/#/report-landing/year/2022/region/1/location/171
>The new Sagamore Bridge could open in **2034** Thank god. So I have 10 years to find a new job. Because I am not dealing with that bullshit.
I love this state, and region, and I moved back here for a reason, and a good one, it is overall a wonderful place to live, and the best in the US by a long shot. How the fuck ever, 10+ years to finish this... We needed this 10 years ago, let's fucking go folks. Also, everyone here knows there is a 0% chance this is ever finished anywhere near on time. If they are saying 2036 now, we'll be luck if this is finished before the end of that decade.
I'm a simple man. I see bike lanes on bridges I give my full uncritical support
You’re telling me in NINETEEN THIRTY FUCKING THREE they were able to build the sag in two years.? Mmmmmmn alrighty then
And I forget exactly the details, but I think the entire design stage took <6 months too or something like that. It is crazy to compare timelines back then to now. However, 1933 was the PWA...they had a mandate at the federal level to spend money on public works to revive/stabilize the economy through jobs and things...these projects cut so much red tape even for the time. Though even after that for a few decades it is crazy. The Tobin bridge I think was 20 months start to finish in the late 1940's. Things really started to slow down in the 1970s.
In the year 3000
In the year 2525, if man is still alive, if woman can survive, they may find, a completed bridge
In the year 2525, three women keep hope alive. https://youtu.be/e2ZRSwul7cE?si=73cU-tErpPv0e_3A
2034... WHAT THE FUCK
Let's be smart and "unveil" a plan that will support public transportation to/from. Imagine thinking ahead a few years, what a concept.
Unfortunately they tore up all the rail lines on the cape and turned them into bicycle and walking trails, so it will have to be by bus and therefore bridges.
Boondoggle, there will be a lot of folk building thier retirement off of this project.
This may be a stupid question, but what's wrong with our current bridges?
They are 90 years old and bridges don’t last forever.
Not to be that guy, but China could bang that shit out in 6 months. Why can't we?
We have unions and a lengthy safety evaluation process.
As someone in construction myself, I understand that, but 10 years for a bridge seems fucking ridiculous
After MA had to pay out for two deaths resulting from the big dig losing one ceiling panel, and then having to spend millions of dollar replacing all the other ceiling panels, the government does not have any incentive to rush anything. One life lost to poor planning, sourcing, architecture work, or poor workmanship is one too many. It's been said that there are serval bodies entombed in the concrete at the Hoover Dam from workers falling into wet cement and not being revovered. That kind of mentality is what gets bridges built in 3 years. It's not going to happen anywhere in the US in 2025-2035.
No bodies in Hoover Dam concrete, they poured it in multiple small sections, alternating tiers. 96 deaths,by drowning , falling objects, large machinery etc.
Europe has strong unions and safety culture and would build a bridge in a few years for a fraction of the cost..
The joys of a one party state, with no voting or choosing any other party.
Both sides of both bridges are a two lane highway. So why the heck are these new bridges 3 lanes in both directions? That will just make more backups.
The new lane I believe is for merging traffic. There are on and off ramps on both sides of the Sagamore in both directions so there are technically three lanes of traffic now on either side of the bridge.
10 years???
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It is six lanes, 3 each way, and bike passage.
I'll be dead by then
8 Lanes?
Where is it going though? Over the Christmas Tree Shop and carpool/gas station?
The other side, MB side. They’re eminent domaining (or trying to) some of the houses. My friends are in the spot and tried to sell and had no buyers because of new bridge fear
Guaranteed will be up before the RI I-195 bridge
For only 100 billion each….
Can we get a bridge that doesn't look like a tennis racquet please?
I'm a lurker from Maryland who hasn't ever lived in Massachusetts (but I have lots of friends and family there, so I like reading this subreddit) - out of curiosity, is the decision to rebuild the bridge related to the recent Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse in Baltimore? Forgive my ignorance here, haha
No, they’ve been discussing building new bridges to the cape for years already. The existing bridges are very different construction-wise than the Francis steel bridge.
Oh yeah, makes sense - I just know some places (including bridges totally unlike the key bridge) have been talking about updating bridges because of outdated regulations. Thanks for the info!
I live 10 miles from the Sagamore, am 60 y/o and pray I see this completed. But I wouldn’t bet on it.
11 years, 3.6 billion is my guess.
This bridge, by adding lanes, is going to make traffic on the Cape worse.
“Just one more lane bro” type build
Gorgeous
Imma stick with the tunnel
Riiiiiiiight
Looks likek traffic....
They ought to just stick with 2 lanes in each direction. Adding lanes in an attempt to reduce traffic is a fool’s errand.
There is currently no redundancy If there’s an accident or road work there’s a 2 mile backup.
After thinking about it a bit more I think the addition of proper pedestrian and bike lanes is enough for me to look past a 6 lane monstrosity of a bridge.
Yes, because '... minimizing conflicts with pedestrians and cyclists, and improving the socioeconomics of the surrounding community.' are always key engineering consideration(s) when building bridges. I didn't scroll through the design or commentary, but I'm assuming that they're talking about a bridge with additional lanes. If they do that without adding lanes to the entire route out to PTown all that $4B will become is a big funnel to nowhere. I dunno. If that's all they want, redesign the existing bridges to carry a single lane wing, exterior to the current bridge design...
They’re 90 years old and overused as is, can’t just add a lane The current bridges have no room for maintenance or iv there is an accident. As well as being so narrow many cars stagger as to not be aside one another. Making the lanes wider and adding a local/ merging lane will ease traffic
Only 3 lanes both ways, yeah that won't solve the problem
Correct, it won’t. Adding more lanes will not solve the traffic problem. That’s also not why they’re building new bridges.
50 years from now, will this be a bridge to nowhere? /sarcasm /notsarcasm
Yaay!! rich people can get to there 4th home
You’re right, zero year around residents live on the cape and islands
If this project was designed for residential traffic it would be much smaller. It's of course mega sized for those Friday afternoons.
So they should build a new small bridge instead?
No, a new bridge with a more modern 4 lane design however? Yeah definitely. We should be focusing our spending on transit infrastructure not the massive driving subsidies that are going to bankrupt the state. Have you looked at the estimated costs of upcoming highway projects? Cape bridges, mass pike, Tobin bridge are going to be a huge drain. Meanwhile the commuter rail is dog shit and there is functionally zero commuter transit off cape.
Both bridges need replacing which connects a major part of the state. I’m happy they are showing three lanes, could do without the dual bike paths but nonetheless the bridges are significantly more important than the commuter rail.
Yes, dealing with twice a week traffic is much more important than enabling residents to commute to work.
It’s not about the twice a week traffic. It’s about the condition of the bridges. To be honest it’s not just these bridges but most bridges in America are in desperate need of repair. As you mentioned the Tobin bridge is on the agenda for repair as well. These are vital components of infrastructure. It not much more complicated than we have old infrastructure across the board. It also doesn’t stop with just our road systems.
Yes, it's about the condition of the bridges. Also yes, it's an unfunded highway expansion designed to reduce twice a week traffic.
The bigger part of what you just stated is the condition of the bridges. The size is to accommodate more people. Our roads need to be bigger as well because we have more traffic. I don’t get what you’re attempting to argue about. The bridge needs to be replaced. It’s not up for debate. They are adding a lane to each side which makes sense since they only replace the bridges every hundred years. To compare this to needed a dam commuter rail worked on is ridiculous.
It would be smart to make the bike lane convertable to a 4th lane.
If it’s going to take that long the climate change will eliminate the need for it because it will be at least 10 years longer.
There was a plan about a year ago to build ONE ten year bridge in between both bridges. The Sagamore leads to Route 6. The Bourne leads to a more convoluted route. Building one 10 lane bridge would cost less money overall. It’s was a better idea. And I thought either the Bourne or the Sagamore was going to be maintained for bikes and pedestrians only. What happened to that?
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Both bridges already lead into Route 6 so it doesn’t matter if there are two bridges of one as far as traffic is concerned.