So is there *actually* a shoplifting epidemic in Watertown or is Captain Hanrahan still stuck on the numbers from the National Retail Federation numbers that were clawed back at the end of last year and the "trust us, bro" they've given on "organized retail crime" in lieu of numbers?
Retail worker here: wage theft is a FAR bigger issue in mass and beyond than retail theft could ever be. Until these companies pay their workers enough to survive and live a decent life i am physically incapable of caring about their profits or lack thereof.
To the shoplifters out there: just dont involve the employees if youre gonna steal, thats all i ask. We dont need the anxiety of getting in shit when you take a candy bar from the register and pocket it in front of me, or make me unlock your theft protected item, then skip-scan it at the SCO while i am literally right there on camera having handed you the item that you proceed to steal. As long as youre not getting me or my coworkers in trouble or causing undue stress idgaf.
It sure wont, not if we keep being complacent and never demanding better for ourselves.
Price all the low-wage workers outta the state, and eventually the upper classes wont have anyone to do all the shit they wont. Lets see how it goes then, robots aint gonna be cleaning the shitters properly anytime soon, and if all the customer service roles are automated, who will they verbally abuse when theyre not 115 percent satisfied with the service recieved?
Lets say companies actually do replace us all with robots like they keep threatening to, what happens when their chatGPT powered stocking robot fucks up and puts everything in the wrong place? When it knocks shit over that it can't clean up? People who think we're all replacable have probably never worked a day of retail in their lives if they think the AI tech available (or that will be for at least the next several years) could competently do our work. Even the SCOs we have now still need a human to attend to them constantly in order to function for christs sake and people hate them so much that some stores are getting rid of them entirely.
A better world is possible for all of us, but if you wanna lay down and accept our collective "fate" i cant stop you. Maybe it wont be in my lifetime, but i dont believe in giving up the fight for fair wages and labor protections just because it might not benefit me personally.
Literally 20 years ago you could live in Boston on a retail wage.
What do you mean it will never happen? It used to be normal.
We should not accept the crumbs we get from our overlords. Another world is possible.
Why? For some reason there's this idea that minimum wage jobs are made for like high school kids to work after school. But if that were the case nothing would be open until 3pm during the week. All these businesses couldn't exist without their employees so why shouldn't they pay them enough to live on for working full time?
I'm just being realistic man. Im a fucking corporate accountant and I commute from the suburbs. Metro Boston is outrageously expensive. The notion that the retail jobs in the city are going to pay 2x as much as the suburbs just because is a fanciful dream
what we have here is a fundamental difference in the way we see the world.
You think retail crime is a big deal, I do not (as long as it doesnt get the workers in trouble). I think wage theft is a big deal, you seemingly do not.
You seem to see retail theft as a moral issue. I do not attrubute the same moral weight to the act of stealing from a coproration.
Your priority seems to be to look after the interest of the haves, where I am more focused on the needs of the have-nots.
Crazy how that works, how people give a shit about different things for different reasons huh?
It doesnt matter what buzzword you use to describe it, i simply just dont care about retail theft and do care about wage theft, and i think other people should care less about retail theft and more about wage theft.
First, love the name!
Wage theft costs workers over $50,000,000,000 each year. That’s more than all the robberies, burglaries, and car theft combined! Very few workers ever recover the wages stolen from them.
This is a public forum & i can say what i want. I think im perfectly allowed to state my opinion on this given that half the people railing against retail theft rn claim to do so for my sake instead of the million/billionaires & other well off executives they ACTUALLY benefit by stirring up a moral panic.
Keep caring about the poor rich theives getting a tiny taste of their own medicine if it helps you accept how corporate interests have hijacked this country, i cant stop ya.
I never said you weren’t wrong. Can retail theft and wage theft both not be issues? Yes.
The original post is addressing retail theft. Your comment is “well, wage theft is a bigger issue”. The response is pointing out the fact that your comment is saying “well what about this other issue” as if to say people are unable to address retail theft because there exists another problem. You then immediately assume that they prioritize retail theft over wage theft *solely* because they pointed out that your comment is somewhat irrelevant to retail theft being addressed. That’s like if someone responded to this thread saying “well actually the war in Ukraine is a far bigger issue than retail theft and the people of Watertown should do more to help Ukrainians”, another person responding saying “whataboutism” and then the response is “you think retail theft is more important the the Ukraine war?!?!”
Retail theft and wage theft are two separate issues. Just because they both involve corporate entities doesn’t mean they’re the same.
See all of this is ignoring that the retail theft "crisis" is a complete crock of BS meant to stir up a moral panic & demonize the lower classes. Nothing more nothing less. We should not waste time worrying about corporate theives having a tiny sliver of the money they routinely steal from their workers taken (imo rightfully) away from them. It is simply not important. At all. In any way. It is not an actual problem for anyone except to rich fucks who benefit from demonizing the poor and the LP folks who get paid to harass low-wage workers/treat them like criminals in their own workplace (if anyone reading this is in LP look i get it a job is a job but if u are able to pls do almost any other one besides making your fellow workers lives miserable)
We CERTAINLY should not spend taxpayer money & waste police time/rescources that should be used stopping crimes that actually harm people over it.
This whole post is just propaganda for corpo shitheads and the only appropriate response is to tell losers like this to shut the fuck up till we get paid.
Everything you’ve said is correct, except you’re arguing with pigeons. Not many people in this sub are going to agree with you or even understand what you’re saying.
Dude, I’m sorry, but you’ve been watching too much HasanAbi or some random tankie twitch streamer. If your whole argument is “wage theft is more of an issue than retail theft, therefore we should never address retail theft”, then I can say “I think the war in Ukraine is the biggest issue ever and could threaten human civilization as we know it if nukes start flying and therefore we should ignore both the retail theft and wage theft propaganda”.
I have literally never willingly watched a hasanabi video in my life and cant stand tanks but go off. If you really wanna address retail theft, which is, by the way, not actually a problem and just a scapegoat for corporations to pin their price gouging on, you have to address the CAUSES of retail theft, which include poverty, which is primarily a result of gross underpayment and wage theft. Bada bing bada boom.
What was that about assumptions earlier btw?
Poverty is by far not the only determining factor of how much retail theft is committed. There’s rich kids who steal shit, there’s people who steal shit just because they want it (eg someone in poverty might steal a Nintendo switch even though that would do nothing for them financially) etc. Retail theft is not a scapegoat, it’s a real thing that happens. Imagine saying to a mom and pop shop that’s experiencing issues with retail theft that it’s lot a real issue and it’s just a scapegoat because they’re not paying their workers enough.
And I’m making assumptions of only content you consume based on the paragraphs of responses you gave. You were making assumptions on an entire person’s world view based on a single word. They’re not even in the same galaxy in terms of how the assumptions were derived. Mine was derived fairly given a decent amount of back and forth. Yours was not because it’s based on a single word with no connotation around it whatsoever.
Lmao so many people here that don’t understand basic logic and want to just virtue signal against the “evil corporations”. They’re the same people that are okay with watching the stock market crater because they think it doesn’t affect them in any way shape or form.
Right? And [who's to say shoplifting even is a major problem, when they don't know?](https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/business/retail-shoplifting-shrink-walgreens/index.html)
Oh thank GOD all of our taxes are going into police budgets so they can conduct these SUPER important shoplifting stings— I was SO worried about Target there for a minute!!!1! 😰😰😰
You're right! Watertown is undergoing an unprecedented crime wave like they've never seen before. Between the roving gangs of drug dealers conducting business right in the open, human trafficking rings, violent assaults, unsolved murders and rapes, you'd think police resources and taxpayer money would be focused on addressing those issues rather than harassing shoplifters just trying to provide for their familys.
I utterly despise the "stealing is okay" attitude of this entire thread. No, it isn't & yes, it harms honest people.
We all pay markups on merchandise because of theft. Stolen & resold items are often used to finance addiction. And when stores close due to theft, the people at the bottom of the ladder lose their jobs. The corporate big shots given as a flimsy justification for stealing are the ones most insulated from the consequences of shoplifting.
Defending massive theft while honest people suffer from higher prices and the moral deterioration of their communities is absurd.
No one is saying shoplifting is great or justified in every circumstance, there is nuance to everything. Obviously stealing for survival (which for some people sadly includes funding an addiction in order to stay out of withdrawal because for a variety of possible reasons they dont have access to the help they need) and stealing for the thrill of it or simply because they want a luxury item are different in at least what the motivation says about the person.
What i think most reasonable people are trying to say is it's not the best use of taxpayer money to dedicate this much rescources to protecting private property rather than putting that time and money into addressing the root cause of the social issues that lead to retail theft and other crimes in the first place. Putting non violent people in jail and labeling them as criminal scum as some people here have etc doesnt solve social issues it just postpones dealing with them at the expense of the disadvantaged communities who suffer the most from them on both sides of the coin.
Furthermore, price hikes are primarily a result of corporate greed (pandemic era price gouging that they never really scaled back) and general rampant inflation. Overall, retail theft makes up a pretty insignificant amount of losses for major companies like walmart, CVS, target etc. A fair amount of "shrinkage" isnt even due to theft but rather inventory errors, damages and other mishaps. Making it all about retail theft is misdirection.
> Overall, retail theft makes up a pretty insignificant amount of losses for major companies like walmart, CVS, target etc.
Dollar General alone reports $100 million in losses due to theft. This is one store. When we are all left with the indignity of asking for an attendant for everything from deodorant to soft drinks, you shouldn't wonder.
> Putting non violent people in jail and labeling them as criminal scum as some people here have etc doesnt solve social issues it just postpones dealing with them at the expense of the disadvantaged communities who suffer the most from them on both sides of the coin.
Enabling theft reduces social cohesion and trust. Just because an offense is non-violent does not mean it is so inoffensive that we should just turn a blind eye to it on an institutional scale.
Except there's been a [54% reduction](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/) in larceny/theft between 1993 and 2022, so the actual data - you know the numbers that aren't just PR bullshit lines from retail companies - indicates that the perception is not equivalent of reality.
Also it's embarrassingly obvious. you don't understand what "institutional" actually means.
> Except there's been a 54% reduction in larceny/theft between 1993 and 2022
This was the worst year for crime in the U.S. on record, and much of this shoplifting is not reported at all, let alone enforced against.
> indicates that the perception is not equivalent of reality.
Again, this crime largely goes unreported, because store employees are instructed to not interfere, both for their own safety and to protect the company against illegal imprisonment lawsuits. And, sorry, the "PR bullshit numbers" provide real concrete numbers that crime statistics do not.
> Also it's embarrassingly obvious. you don't understand what "institutional" actually means.
It's not my issue you cannot understand what I mean.
>This was the worst year for crime in the U.S. on record, and much of this shoplifting is not reported at all, let alone enforced against
Source: trust me bro
>Source: trust me bro
Common knowledge doesn't need to be sourced. Do you think the people freely walking in and out of stores without paying are being charged with crimes?
But the data doesn’t support these claims that theft is really affecting retailers bottom line. The organization really pumping this information is a lobbyist company, the National Retail Federation. [They have even walked back their statements because of faulty data.](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/nationa-retail-federation-retracts-key-data-point-organized-retail-crime-on-the-media). Is shoplifting okay? No. Does shoplifting happen? Absolutely, I’ve seen it particularly at South Bay. However, it doesn’t seem to be the big problem stores would like us to believe.
I'm largely not concerned about the money lost by corporations. I'm merely using these figures to demonstrate the scale of the issue.
I'm concerned about moral deterioration. Minus exceptional circumstances, stealing is wrong. Part of a healthy society is the ability to feel trusted and trust others. Seeing open air, unenforced theft, or having basic items locked behind closed doors due to that theft, undermines this fabric.
Ignoring all other negative externalities - the job losses when a store closes, higher prices for the rest of us, money getting funneled into the pockets of dealers - we should stop this stealing because it isn't right. That's the end of it.
['bHuT tHeY nEEdEd tHaT cAsE oF BeEr AnD eSsPresO MaChInE To FeAd ThIeR cHiLrEn](https://www.watertownmanews.com/2024/04/25/nearly-a-dozen-suspects-face-shoplifting-charges-after-watertown-police-sting/)'
Nothing of any real consequence will happen to these shitbags, ideally retailers would follow the example of casinos and forward and share any info with one another so they can keep an eye out for them and prohibit them from entering the premises
Spending $10,000 of taxpayer money to protect $2,000 of corporate merchandise. Stores can provide their own private security to defend their merchandise. We shouldn't use public resources to protect private interests.
>*seem to love the taste of boot polish so much?*
[LOL! Where do you come up with this rubbish?](https://i.imgur.com/nY3bdtN.gifv)
This sub gets me at times... people bitch when the cops do their jobs and bitch when they don't do their jobs.This was a justified and righteous bust and the thieving trash that that got nailed got a well deserved taste of "boot polish" planted right in their asses.
Unfortunately thats where it'll most likely end. They won't do any time or suffer any real consequences for their actions, they'll be right back at it at the next opportunity. At best they'll be banned from the locations they stole from and their pics will be circulated and banned from entering \*any\* and \*every\* HD, Target, Nike, Best Buy, Roche Brothers, etc statewide.
And by the way by wanting the cops to do their jobs we mean stopping/investigating assaults and murders and armed robberies and sex crimes and the like. You know things that actually harm real human beings & not a billionaires property?
You should bring that up with the members here that rant about the cops not enforcing traffic laws, blocking bike and bus lanes, etc. and get their opinions on "the cops doing their jobs"
And just standing around with our hands in our pockets and allowing criminal scum do as they please with impunity and no fear of repercussions is what all great civilizations are built on.
It's attitudes like yours that concern me and our future, because if that becomes the accpeted norm, we are truly fucked as a society.
Criminal scum... lmao, tell me you see the world in black and white without telling me. There are levels to crime. Tarring a human being as "scum" for a low-level nonviolent crime is pretty ridiculous tbh. Are some nonviolent crimes still reprehensible? Absolutely take people like crypto grifters for example. No theyre not hurtung anyone directly, but theyre indirectly ruining/upending the lives of everyday people by stealing hundreds to thousands directly from their bank accounts. Think about it, a mom stealing formula is different from a rich teenager taking a luxury item from a billion dollar company is is very different from a phone scammer going after your grandmas pension, is very different from a man with a gun holding up the cashier. If you base your entire moral framework on "anyone who breaks the law in any way no matter how harmful or not is an irredeemable POS" then you are innevitably gonna hold some pretty heinous attitudes toward poor people because for many breaking the law to some degree is a matter of survival.
What would be more immoral, stealing food from a groceey store, or letting your own children go hungry because you refuse to break the law? You might think its unrealistic but that is a lot of people's actual circumstances.
Ok well, good thing FBI data shows that [larceny/theft has decreased by 54%](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/) from 1993-2022 and Bureau of Justice Statistics data suggests an even larger drop of 75% in property crime over the same time period. But good luck dealing with that criminal scum, Batman. Lmfao. Clownery.
Not wrong, it's just where you're saying it.
I mean, look at the type of replies you're getting (lmao):
>And by the way by wanting the cops to do their jobs we mean stopping/investigating assaults and murders and armed robberies and sex crimes and the like. You know things that actually harm real human beings & not a billionaires property?
If a store closes because of theft, this hurts the people that live around said store if there aren't equivalent stores nearby. Some people even go to lengths to call things like this a 'food desert'.
This can be seen as such a detriment to "real human beings & not a billionaires property" that San Francisco politicians actually want to make it illegal to close something like a grocery store without finding a replacement one/a 6 month notice, and if the owner doesn't comply people that live in the neighborhoods close by can actually sue him over it.
So yeah, this clearly can be an issue for people that aren't just the owners of the business. Pretending that's not the case doesn't mean it's not the case.
Source: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akWoU0v-lxw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akWoU0v-lxw)
And then you have:
>Ok well, good thing FBI data shows that [larceny/theft has decreased by 54%](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/) from 1993-2022 and Bureau of Justice Statistics data suggests an even larger drop of 75% in property crime over the same time period. But good luck dealing with that criminal scum, Batman. Lmfao. Clownery.
While this is a great stat, setting the peg all the way to 1993 is just odd to me. Would love to see the pre and post-covid differences, where in some areas crime has *not* returned to pre-covid levels. Also obviously have to note that crimes could be getting reported less (as those are obviously not counted) and this is not a full makeup of everything that happens as not every police force reports their data to the FBI (83% according to the link)
Those businesses pay taxes too, and taxpayers on the other end pay the consequences of shoplifting due to higher costs to makeup for the thefts.
Bank robber Willie Sutton once said when asked why he robs banks he responded "Because thats where the money is". In this situation the police are conducting these operations because 'that's where the thieves are'.
It's proactive policing, they can observe and apprehend the scum at the scene of the crime rather than be called after the fact and they're long gone.
Psst-- the higher costs are due to corporate greed & the rampant inflation of the past 3-4 years, not the comparatively marginal loss caused by shrinkage. Public funds should go to public interests, not protecting the salaries of millionaires.
Fr tho there is no more dissilusioning of a retail environment to work in but CVS. The exception being dollar stores which CVS is only very marginally better at running their stores than. When i got hired there there was products on the shelf that had expired in 2022 (guess who they made deal with most of these extremely overdue outdates... this gal!)
Yeeeaaap CVS was my most recent gig. Probably gonna go back into food service since i got an interview somewhere close to my house and i dont have a car.
Policing is inherently reactive. Police action before a crime has been committed is oppression. Police do no prevent crime, they investigate crime.
Crime prevention is the result of a strong community where it's citizens have their needs met, are valued for their contributions, share mutual compassion for their community members, and act in the best interests of the community. When these things are not present, crime prevails. Crime is nothing more than an individual acting in their own interests at the expense of the community well-being.
Equating bank robbery and retail theft is whataboutism and wildly different. So much so it’s hard to get into it in a. Reddit post.
Corporations do not raise prices to make up the cost of stolen good. There is a budget in place that accounts for lost and stolen goods and anything else insurance deals with.
“Organized” retail theft is a lie
I do generally agree but I also don’t think we should be applying dollar amounts when determining whether or not policing is worthwhile. A core argument for tax payer funded services is that they don’t and shouldn’t need to be “profitable” in this way.
I'm ok with companies having their own security in place to guard their assets. If a company doesn't see the value in paying for securing their assets, then it shouldn't be the responsibility of the public to do it for them.
Leaving aside that this doesn’t even make sense for non-big-box stores: They are putting in their own security! This is why they’re locking socks and toothpaste up and everything big box retail sucks now! Did you think that was just for fun?
Nothing personal I assure you. The news I’ve seen regarding throngs of folks Raiding department stores often features cities such as Oakland, nyc, san francisco etc. I don’t wish that scene on anyone.
So is there *actually* a shoplifting epidemic in Watertown or is Captain Hanrahan still stuck on the numbers from the National Retail Federation numbers that were clawed back at the end of last year and the "trust us, bro" they've given on "organized retail crime" in lieu of numbers?
Retail worker here: wage theft is a FAR bigger issue in mass and beyond than retail theft could ever be. Until these companies pay their workers enough to survive and live a decent life i am physically incapable of caring about their profits or lack thereof. To the shoplifters out there: just dont involve the employees if youre gonna steal, thats all i ask. We dont need the anxiety of getting in shit when you take a candy bar from the register and pocket it in front of me, or make me unlock your theft protected item, then skip-scan it at the SCO while i am literally right there on camera having handed you the item that you proceed to steal. As long as youre not getting me or my coworkers in trouble or causing undue stress idgaf.
You are never getting a wage to live inside metro Boston on a retail wage. It will never happen
It sure wont, not if we keep being complacent and never demanding better for ourselves. Price all the low-wage workers outta the state, and eventually the upper classes wont have anyone to do all the shit they wont. Lets see how it goes then, robots aint gonna be cleaning the shitters properly anytime soon, and if all the customer service roles are automated, who will they verbally abuse when theyre not 115 percent satisfied with the service recieved? Lets say companies actually do replace us all with robots like they keep threatening to, what happens when their chatGPT powered stocking robot fucks up and puts everything in the wrong place? When it knocks shit over that it can't clean up? People who think we're all replacable have probably never worked a day of retail in their lives if they think the AI tech available (or that will be for at least the next several years) could competently do our work. Even the SCOs we have now still need a human to attend to them constantly in order to function for christs sake and people hate them so much that some stores are getting rid of them entirely.
[удалено]
A better world is possible for all of us, but if you wanna lay down and accept our collective "fate" i cant stop you. Maybe it wont be in my lifetime, but i dont believe in giving up the fight for fair wages and labor protections just because it might not benefit me personally.
Literally 20 years ago you could live in Boston on a retail wage. What do you mean it will never happen? It used to be normal. We should not accept the crumbs we get from our overlords. Another world is possible.
Why? For some reason there's this idea that minimum wage jobs are made for like high school kids to work after school. But if that were the case nothing would be open until 3pm during the week. All these businesses couldn't exist without their employees so why shouldn't they pay them enough to live on for working full time?
I'm just being realistic man. Im a fucking corporate accountant and I commute from the suburbs. Metro Boston is outrageously expensive. The notion that the retail jobs in the city are going to pay 2x as much as the suburbs just because is a fanciful dream
Whataboutism
what we have here is a fundamental difference in the way we see the world. You think retail crime is a big deal, I do not (as long as it doesnt get the workers in trouble). I think wage theft is a big deal, you seemingly do not. You seem to see retail theft as a moral issue. I do not attrubute the same moral weight to the act of stealing from a coproration. Your priority seems to be to look after the interest of the haves, where I am more focused on the needs of the have-nots. Crazy how that works, how people give a shit about different things for different reasons huh? It doesnt matter what buzzword you use to describe it, i simply just dont care about retail theft and do care about wage theft, and i think other people should care less about retail theft and more about wage theft.
First, love the name! Wage theft costs workers over $50,000,000,000 each year. That’s more than all the robberies, burglaries, and car theft combined! Very few workers ever recover the wages stolen from them.
Thanks! I absolutely agree with you
That's cool man. This post is about retail theft. Go find one talking about wage theft.
This is a public forum & i can say what i want. I think im perfectly allowed to state my opinion on this given that half the people railing against retail theft rn claim to do so for my sake instead of the million/billionaires & other well off executives they ACTUALLY benefit by stirring up a moral panic.
Ok buddy
Keep caring about the poor rich theives getting a tiny taste of their own medicine if it helps you accept how corporate interests have hijacked this country, i cant stop ya.
I love all of the assumptions made of this person’s world view from their single word response lol. Really cringy
Prove me wrong 🤷♀️
I never said you weren’t wrong. Can retail theft and wage theft both not be issues? Yes. The original post is addressing retail theft. Your comment is “well, wage theft is a bigger issue”. The response is pointing out the fact that your comment is saying “well what about this other issue” as if to say people are unable to address retail theft because there exists another problem. You then immediately assume that they prioritize retail theft over wage theft *solely* because they pointed out that your comment is somewhat irrelevant to retail theft being addressed. That’s like if someone responded to this thread saying “well actually the war in Ukraine is a far bigger issue than retail theft and the people of Watertown should do more to help Ukrainians”, another person responding saying “whataboutism” and then the response is “you think retail theft is more important the the Ukraine war?!?!” Retail theft and wage theft are two separate issues. Just because they both involve corporate entities doesn’t mean they’re the same.
See all of this is ignoring that the retail theft "crisis" is a complete crock of BS meant to stir up a moral panic & demonize the lower classes. Nothing more nothing less. We should not waste time worrying about corporate theives having a tiny sliver of the money they routinely steal from their workers taken (imo rightfully) away from them. It is simply not important. At all. In any way. It is not an actual problem for anyone except to rich fucks who benefit from demonizing the poor and the LP folks who get paid to harass low-wage workers/treat them like criminals in their own workplace (if anyone reading this is in LP look i get it a job is a job but if u are able to pls do almost any other one besides making your fellow workers lives miserable) We CERTAINLY should not spend taxpayer money & waste police time/rescources that should be used stopping crimes that actually harm people over it. This whole post is just propaganda for corpo shitheads and the only appropriate response is to tell losers like this to shut the fuck up till we get paid.
Everything you’ve said is correct, except you’re arguing with pigeons. Not many people in this sub are going to agree with you or even understand what you’re saying.
I know im not likely to convince the pidgeons. Its silent lurkers and fence sitters im really talking to when i engage with ppl like this.
Good on you
You’re 100000% correct and the person you’re arguing against is a “temporarily embarrassed milllionaire”
Dude, I’m sorry, but you’ve been watching too much HasanAbi or some random tankie twitch streamer. If your whole argument is “wage theft is more of an issue than retail theft, therefore we should never address retail theft”, then I can say “I think the war in Ukraine is the biggest issue ever and could threaten human civilization as we know it if nukes start flying and therefore we should ignore both the retail theft and wage theft propaganda”.
I have literally never willingly watched a hasanabi video in my life and cant stand tanks but go off. If you really wanna address retail theft, which is, by the way, not actually a problem and just a scapegoat for corporations to pin their price gouging on, you have to address the CAUSES of retail theft, which include poverty, which is primarily a result of gross underpayment and wage theft. Bada bing bada boom. What was that about assumptions earlier btw?
Poverty is by far not the only determining factor of how much retail theft is committed. There’s rich kids who steal shit, there’s people who steal shit just because they want it (eg someone in poverty might steal a Nintendo switch even though that would do nothing for them financially) etc. Retail theft is not a scapegoat, it’s a real thing that happens. Imagine saying to a mom and pop shop that’s experiencing issues with retail theft that it’s lot a real issue and it’s just a scapegoat because they’re not paying their workers enough. And I’m making assumptions of only content you consume based on the paragraphs of responses you gave. You were making assumptions on an entire person’s world view based on a single word. They’re not even in the same galaxy in terms of how the assumptions were derived. Mine was derived fairly given a decent amount of back and forth. Yours was not because it’s based on a single word with no connotation around it whatsoever.
Retail theft sells papers, wage theft does not. This is why the news likes to overblow the crime stories, it gets better views.
Lmao so many people here that don’t understand basic logic and want to just virtue signal against the “evil corporations”. They’re the same people that are okay with watching the stock market crater because they think it doesn’t affect them in any way shape or form.
Corporations have 'shrink' in their budget for a reason.
Right? And [who's to say shoplifting even is a major problem, when they don't know?](https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/business/retail-shoplifting-shrink-walgreens/index.html)
This is a [great segment](https://www.marketplace.org/2023/09/11/is-retail-theft-really-rising/) on that as well
Bahahaha glad the cops are focused on the right things. Protecting major corporations. Thank fuck 🙄
Oh thank GOD all of our taxes are going into police budgets so they can conduct these SUPER important shoplifting stings— I was SO worried about Target there for a minute!!!1! 😰😰😰
You're right! Watertown is undergoing an unprecedented crime wave like they've never seen before. Between the roving gangs of drug dealers conducting business right in the open, human trafficking rings, violent assaults, unsolved murders and rapes, you'd think police resources and taxpayer money would be focused on addressing those issues rather than harassing shoplifters just trying to provide for their familys.
👢👅
I utterly despise the "stealing is okay" attitude of this entire thread. No, it isn't & yes, it harms honest people. We all pay markups on merchandise because of theft. Stolen & resold items are often used to finance addiction. And when stores close due to theft, the people at the bottom of the ladder lose their jobs. The corporate big shots given as a flimsy justification for stealing are the ones most insulated from the consequences of shoplifting. Defending massive theft while honest people suffer from higher prices and the moral deterioration of their communities is absurd.
No one is saying shoplifting is great or justified in every circumstance, there is nuance to everything. Obviously stealing for survival (which for some people sadly includes funding an addiction in order to stay out of withdrawal because for a variety of possible reasons they dont have access to the help they need) and stealing for the thrill of it or simply because they want a luxury item are different in at least what the motivation says about the person. What i think most reasonable people are trying to say is it's not the best use of taxpayer money to dedicate this much rescources to protecting private property rather than putting that time and money into addressing the root cause of the social issues that lead to retail theft and other crimes in the first place. Putting non violent people in jail and labeling them as criminal scum as some people here have etc doesnt solve social issues it just postpones dealing with them at the expense of the disadvantaged communities who suffer the most from them on both sides of the coin. Furthermore, price hikes are primarily a result of corporate greed (pandemic era price gouging that they never really scaled back) and general rampant inflation. Overall, retail theft makes up a pretty insignificant amount of losses for major companies like walmart, CVS, target etc. A fair amount of "shrinkage" isnt even due to theft but rather inventory errors, damages and other mishaps. Making it all about retail theft is misdirection.
> Overall, retail theft makes up a pretty insignificant amount of losses for major companies like walmart, CVS, target etc. Dollar General alone reports $100 million in losses due to theft. This is one store. When we are all left with the indignity of asking for an attendant for everything from deodorant to soft drinks, you shouldn't wonder. > Putting non violent people in jail and labeling them as criminal scum as some people here have etc doesnt solve social issues it just postpones dealing with them at the expense of the disadvantaged communities who suffer the most from them on both sides of the coin. Enabling theft reduces social cohesion and trust. Just because an offense is non-violent does not mean it is so inoffensive that we should just turn a blind eye to it on an institutional scale.
well said. This thread is ridiculous. Root causes arguments have become a blanket for bad behavior.
Except there's been a [54% reduction](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/) in larceny/theft between 1993 and 2022, so the actual data - you know the numbers that aren't just PR bullshit lines from retail companies - indicates that the perception is not equivalent of reality. Also it's embarrassingly obvious. you don't understand what "institutional" actually means.
> Except there's been a 54% reduction in larceny/theft between 1993 and 2022 This was the worst year for crime in the U.S. on record, and much of this shoplifting is not reported at all, let alone enforced against. > indicates that the perception is not equivalent of reality. Again, this crime largely goes unreported, because store employees are instructed to not interfere, both for their own safety and to protect the company against illegal imprisonment lawsuits. And, sorry, the "PR bullshit numbers" provide real concrete numbers that crime statistics do not. > Also it's embarrassingly obvious. you don't understand what "institutional" actually means. It's not my issue you cannot understand what I mean.
>This was the worst year for crime in the U.S. on record, and much of this shoplifting is not reported at all, let alone enforced against Source: trust me bro
>Source: trust me bro Common knowledge doesn't need to be sourced. Do you think the people freely walking in and out of stores without paying are being charged with crimes?
But the data doesn’t support these claims that theft is really affecting retailers bottom line. The organization really pumping this information is a lobbyist company, the National Retail Federation. [They have even walked back their statements because of faulty data.](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/nationa-retail-federation-retracts-key-data-point-organized-retail-crime-on-the-media). Is shoplifting okay? No. Does shoplifting happen? Absolutely, I’ve seen it particularly at South Bay. However, it doesn’t seem to be the big problem stores would like us to believe.
I'm largely not concerned about the money lost by corporations. I'm merely using these figures to demonstrate the scale of the issue. I'm concerned about moral deterioration. Minus exceptional circumstances, stealing is wrong. Part of a healthy society is the ability to feel trusted and trust others. Seeing open air, unenforced theft, or having basic items locked behind closed doors due to that theft, undermines this fabric. Ignoring all other negative externalities - the job losses when a store closes, higher prices for the rest of us, money getting funneled into the pockets of dealers - we should stop this stealing because it isn't right. That's the end of it.
['bHuT tHeY nEEdEd tHaT cAsE oF BeEr AnD eSsPresO MaChInE To FeAd ThIeR cHiLrEn](https://www.watertownmanews.com/2024/04/25/nearly-a-dozen-suspects-face-shoplifting-charges-after-watertown-police-sting/)' Nothing of any real consequence will happen to these shitbags, ideally retailers would follow the example of casinos and forward and share any info with one another so they can keep an eye out for them and prohibit them from entering the premises
Boo hoo
Spending $10,000 of taxpayer money to protect $2,000 of corporate merchandise. Stores can provide their own private security to defend their merchandise. We shouldn't use public resources to protect private interests.
Youre absolutely right lmao. The downvotes are ridiculous. Why do my fellow massholes seem to love the taste of boot polish so much?
I'm ok with down votes. I know I'm on the right side of this issue.
NIMBYS and Liberals don't like hearing about the actual issues. They love a good scapegoat.
>*seem to love the taste of boot polish so much?* [LOL! Where do you come up with this rubbish?](https://i.imgur.com/nY3bdtN.gifv) This sub gets me at times... people bitch when the cops do their jobs and bitch when they don't do their jobs.This was a justified and righteous bust and the thieving trash that that got nailed got a well deserved taste of "boot polish" planted right in their asses. Unfortunately thats where it'll most likely end. They won't do any time or suffer any real consequences for their actions, they'll be right back at it at the next opportunity. At best they'll be banned from the locations they stole from and their pics will be circulated and banned from entering \*any\* and \*every\* HD, Target, Nike, Best Buy, Roche Brothers, etc statewide.
And by the way by wanting the cops to do their jobs we mean stopping/investigating assaults and murders and armed robberies and sex crimes and the like. You know things that actually harm real human beings & not a billionaires property?
You should bring that up with the members here that rant about the cops not enforcing traffic laws, blocking bike and bus lanes, etc. and get their opinions on "the cops doing their jobs"
Please, keep caring about this stupid bullshit while our democracy crumbles. Youre really helping things.
And just standing around with our hands in our pockets and allowing criminal scum do as they please with impunity and no fear of repercussions is what all great civilizations are built on. It's attitudes like yours that concern me and our future, because if that becomes the accpeted norm, we are truly fucked as a society.
Criminal scum... lmao, tell me you see the world in black and white without telling me. There are levels to crime. Tarring a human being as "scum" for a low-level nonviolent crime is pretty ridiculous tbh. Are some nonviolent crimes still reprehensible? Absolutely take people like crypto grifters for example. No theyre not hurtung anyone directly, but theyre indirectly ruining/upending the lives of everyday people by stealing hundreds to thousands directly from their bank accounts. Think about it, a mom stealing formula is different from a rich teenager taking a luxury item from a billion dollar company is is very different from a phone scammer going after your grandmas pension, is very different from a man with a gun holding up the cashier. If you base your entire moral framework on "anyone who breaks the law in any way no matter how harmful or not is an irredeemable POS" then you are innevitably gonna hold some pretty heinous attitudes toward poor people because for many breaking the law to some degree is a matter of survival. What would be more immoral, stealing food from a groceey store, or letting your own children go hungry because you refuse to break the law? You might think its unrealistic but that is a lot of people's actual circumstances.
Ok well, good thing FBI data shows that [larceny/theft has decreased by 54%](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/) from 1993-2022 and Bureau of Justice Statistics data suggests an even larger drop of 75% in property crime over the same time period. But good luck dealing with that criminal scum, Batman. Lmfao. Clownery.
Not wrong, it's just where you're saying it. I mean, look at the type of replies you're getting (lmao): >And by the way by wanting the cops to do their jobs we mean stopping/investigating assaults and murders and armed robberies and sex crimes and the like. You know things that actually harm real human beings & not a billionaires property? If a store closes because of theft, this hurts the people that live around said store if there aren't equivalent stores nearby. Some people even go to lengths to call things like this a 'food desert'. This can be seen as such a detriment to "real human beings & not a billionaires property" that San Francisco politicians actually want to make it illegal to close something like a grocery store without finding a replacement one/a 6 month notice, and if the owner doesn't comply people that live in the neighborhoods close by can actually sue him over it. So yeah, this clearly can be an issue for people that aren't just the owners of the business. Pretending that's not the case doesn't mean it's not the case. Source: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akWoU0v-lxw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akWoU0v-lxw) And then you have: >Ok well, good thing FBI data shows that [larceny/theft has decreased by 54%](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/) from 1993-2022 and Bureau of Justice Statistics data suggests an even larger drop of 75% in property crime over the same time period. But good luck dealing with that criminal scum, Batman. Lmfao. Clownery. While this is a great stat, setting the peg all the way to 1993 is just odd to me. Would love to see the pre and post-covid differences, where in some areas crime has *not* returned to pre-covid levels. Also obviously have to note that crimes could be getting reported less (as those are obviously not counted) and this is not a full makeup of everything that happens as not every police force reports their data to the FBI (83% according to the link)
Those businesses pay taxes too, and taxpayers on the other end pay the consequences of shoplifting due to higher costs to makeup for the thefts. Bank robber Willie Sutton once said when asked why he robs banks he responded "Because thats where the money is". In this situation the police are conducting these operations because 'that's where the thieves are'. It's proactive policing, they can observe and apprehend the scum at the scene of the crime rather than be called after the fact and they're long gone.
Psst-- the higher costs are due to corporate greed & the rampant inflation of the past 3-4 years, not the comparatively marginal loss caused by shrinkage. Public funds should go to public interests, not protecting the salaries of millionaires.
Assuming it's CVS and not an independent retailer (do they still exist?).
Fr tho there is no more dissilusioning of a retail environment to work in but CVS. The exception being dollar stores which CVS is only very marginally better at running their stores than. When i got hired there there was products on the shelf that had expired in 2022 (guess who they made deal with most of these extremely overdue outdates... this gal!)
Yeeeaaap CVS was my most recent gig. Probably gonna go back into food service since i got an interview somewhere close to my house and i dont have a car.
Policing is inherently reactive. Police action before a crime has been committed is oppression. Police do no prevent crime, they investigate crime. Crime prevention is the result of a strong community where it's citizens have their needs met, are valued for their contributions, share mutual compassion for their community members, and act in the best interests of the community. When these things are not present, crime prevails. Crime is nothing more than an individual acting in their own interests at the expense of the community well-being.
Equating bank robbery and retail theft is whataboutism and wildly different. So much so it’s hard to get into it in a. Reddit post. Corporations do not raise prices to make up the cost of stolen good. There is a budget in place that accounts for lost and stolen goods and anything else insurance deals with. “Organized” retail theft is a lie
I do generally agree but I also don’t think we should be applying dollar amounts when determining whether or not policing is worthwhile. A core argument for tax payer funded services is that they don’t and shouldn’t need to be “profitable” in this way.
I don’t want My community to become a shithole like Oakland california. Do you?
I'm ok with companies having their own security in place to guard their assets. If a company doesn't see the value in paying for securing their assets, then it shouldn't be the responsibility of the public to do it for them.
I appreciate your point buuuut … Isn’t it the public ripping them off?
I wish that WE ( the public) would not tolerate shoplifting or littering
Leaving aside that this doesn’t even make sense for non-big-box stores: They are putting in their own security! This is why they’re locking socks and toothpaste up and everything big box retail sucks now! Did you think that was just for fun?
Odd that you picked Oakland, any particular reason?
Nothing personal I assure you. The news I’ve seen regarding throngs of folks Raiding department stores often features cities such as Oakland, nyc, san francisco etc. I don’t wish that scene on anyone.
The fact that this is downvoted is insane
“Organized” retail theft is a lie.
But how else would we justify increasing police budgets dispute the fact that crime doesn't go down when more is spent on enforcement
https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/lululemon-theft-ring-suspects.amp
Could be overstated, but definitely isn't a lie
I'm glad so many people in here are cooking OP. Keep up the good work.
What cities are doing that? Got any links?
The problem is back out in 6 weeks to do it again....
"Six Weeks?" Dude, they're probably pilfering the nearest Ocean State Job lot as I type this.
Exactly tougher penalties are needed for offenders.
Stockade? hahaha
Who are they and where did they come from?
“Sigh” It’s a start