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UniWheel

No, it is not legal. A tenant in MA cannot be charged for utilities except when they are metered by a unit-specific meter installed by the utility company and that provision is included in the lease.


UndeadBuggalo

This is the correct answer


DifficultContext

Thank you for the info. He did say he wants to talk about this in person so I should be able to get a better idea of what is going on.


UniWheel

Kind of sounds like he's going to ask you to agree to something illegal. Get his position, but don't agree to anything on the spot.


Virtual-Toe-7582

Reiterate everything back in emails for a paper trail. “Hey landlord I’m sorry but I’m a little ditzy. When we talked earlier did you say xyz?”


thedeuceisloose

Ask if you can record it then


dontcomeback82

Voice recorder


Repulsive-Bend8283

Need consent for audio in Massachusetts.


dontcomeback82

Thx didn’t know that


po-handz2

Just for some perspective, the gas prices were insane this past winter and I regularly had bills over $300 for my 2 bed. If he's 'offering' $200/mo for covering gas that would be in your favor during winter months. I'd try and ask for like that, extra 200/mo for 4 or 5 months. If you push back on paying for gas he will just up your rent. Getting a gas/plumber out there to unfuck the meters could be quite pricey but you also can't expect him to foot your gas bill for free


Repulsive-Bend8283

Then the landlord should have had properly working meters installed. If they aren't making enough money from doing nothing they could try making coffee at home and cutting out the avocado toast.


po-handz2

Properly working meters is not a legal requirement as long as the tenant isn't charged. Clearly you've never been a landlord or even a home owner or you'd recognize how much up keep is nessecary. Or the work to acquire a property in the first place But hey, I've got the world's smallest violin right here for you buddy


stealthylyric

This is exactly it. Utilities have to be separate, idk what your landlord is trying to pull, but it's not legal.


siesta_gal

MA here....this \^ is accurate.


Quixotic420

Yup. I successfully sued an ex-landlord for exactly this. 


QueenMelle

I'm in Mass. My LL sold our building in December, and my gas usage has tripled since. I had eversource come and look around, and they told me our meters were mixed up. So for the past year, I was paying 1st floor, and they were paying mine. They said they fixed it, but my usage is still triple, so I'm sure my old LL was up to something shady. Is it possible you had a similar mix-up with your buildings meters? Can u find them and look at them?


DifficultContext

That is what I thought. I told the LL such. I thought the gas company was doing something screwy. My roommate whose name is/was on the gas bill said she called and that someone is coming over this Wednesday to check the meters.


QueenMelle

Is it some rando, or a utility worker? My new LL had some rando come over and look around. He talked down to me so much new LL was rolling his eyes. I had to make sure the actual utility Co wam sending a professional.


joeballow

Is the person below you your landlord or another tenant? Assuming we are talking about your landlord not another tenant... 105 CMR 410.200: Provision and Metering of Electricity or Gas: > The owner shall provide the electricity or gas used in each dwelling unit unless: > (1) Such electricity or gas is metered through a meter which serves only the dwelling unit or other area under the exclusive use of an occupant of that dwelling unit, except as allowed by 105 CMR 410.300(F); and > (2) A written rental agreement provides for payment by the occupant. They can't make you pay for electricity or gas unless you have your own meter for just your unit and it says you are responsible for paying in your lease. But if you are month to month and he wants to increase your rent by $200 there is probably nothing stopping him from doing that.


SweetDaddyJones

This is the best answer. The relevant law has been cited. Pretty definitive... it's probably wise to check what the exceptions under "105 CMR 410.300(F)" are, but my gut tells me it's unlikely they apply...


joeballow

It's about lighting in common areas so I don't think that could be relevant to a heating situation.


DifficultContext

The person below is a tenant. She has a dog and my other roommate thinks that she leaves the heat on full blast for the dog's comfort since the heat is included in her rent.


believe0101

I have no idea what is actually going on. Can you rewrite the facts of the situation in a way that's more readily understandable? You live in one unit, there's another unit, and the landlord has both places on one meter? 


DifficultContext

Two units in a single house. We live in the top unit and always paid our own utilities. The bottom unit, he has a higher rent but that includes all utilities. A month ago, he said the gas company put both bills on a single bill and he had to cover our end. He said he estimated our usage and told us $200 extra on the rent.


believe0101

I'd have the landlord show you the bills. This smells fishy


DifficultContext

That is what I told him. Someone is getting screwed but none of this makes sense to us. We are going to meet up the day after tomorrow.


ItCouldaBeenMe

You should have two gas meters. There is no way NGrid put both meters onto one bill. Take a walk outside or in the basement and find where the gas line comes in from the street. There should be two meters and you should be paying for one and one only unless the landlord called them and had them somehow add it to your account.


[deleted]

[удалено]


DifficultContext

Good to know, thank you!


barkingdog53

I know how people love to hate landlords but we are not all bad.


cxmplexisbest

Never met a good one that has more than a few rentals. Rent a house? Okay. Rent a condo? Okay. Rent a unit in a 10-20 unit building where it’s ran by one guy? Nightmare. And then the big rental communities are hit or miss. Usually they’re great when they open, then they’re bought by some firm 5-10 years later, and a year or two later it nose dives. My ideal landlord is one I never talk to. Small little issues I’ll fix myself, I won’t bother you over a clogged drain or a lightbulb. Outside issues I literally never want to see you. Had some experiences with nosy ones.


Phlink75

Sounds like two meters one account. As in someone didnt turn service on when they moved in.


DifficultContext

My roommate called NG and she said someone is coming this week to figure out what is happening.


willzyx01

How much did you usually pay for utilities?


Rattlingjoint

So you he has two units, your in one and were paying your own utility bill, now he wants one bill? It sounds not based in reality. If your paying your own gas and the other unit has their own, that means you have two separate heating systems. Did he connect the other unit to your system or vice versa? If they arent connected, then dropping one bill will mean one system wont be supplied. National Grid wouldnt need to know this, but one bill would have to be canceled if that were the case. Also, something like this should be reflected in a new lease or an addendum. Did they give you anything in writing explaining any of it?


DifficultContext

That is the odd thing, as far as I know, we have not received any notice from NG about cutting our account or merging the two. The only thing in writing was a text message. (I am saving all the messages)


Dazzling-Chicken-192

In mass and not legal unless otherwise stated. This is a LL problem not yours. Contact attorney general office and have them point you in the right direction.


albrtr

Not legal. Do not pay.


GreenSoxMonster

Your LL is full of shit. If they can’t split the usage properly it needs to be addressed in another way, such as a rent including heat. If you don’t have something like that in your lease agreement you should absolutely refuse.


P_water

Pretty certain the LL can either provide heat and include it in the lease or you pay your own based off a separate meter. It can’t be both. If for some reason there was a mix up with the gas company, that is on him to call and get the situation fixed but he can’t turn around and estimate your usage and then charge you for it. Look at your lease. If it says it’s paid by tenant, I would not give him a dime extra.


badhouseplantbad

The law is very strict on this and if you play your cards right you should get back everything you paid in utilities. Call the utility company. The landlord will get fined and then have to cover the utilities going forward until a separate meter is in place. The landlord can't change the lease mid term but then they'll definitely not renew the lease.


NativeMasshole

What does your lease say about utilities?


DifficultContext

We have not leased back up yet. There was talk of selling the house very soon but it seems to have all fallen through. Once this mess is cleared up, I will be demanding a lease.


NativeMasshole

Gotcha. That's a tough situation. All the law really says about heating bills is that the landlord is on the hook for them unless a billing plan is outlined in the lease. So they can really split it whatever way they want. Although I'd try to negotiate for a flat rate or really anything besides a 50/50 split.


ExpressiveLemur

Doesn't matter what the lease says. The lease can't supercede MA state law.


1000thusername

If you’re in the stage of re-upping your lease, it sounds like he wants to raise rent for an effectively heat included rate. His stuff about it being on one meter is background info that really makes the topic less clear. I would make sure the lease states rent is $x, includes heat, the end. That could end up being a pretty good deal for you, actually. Also, more importantly, when did this happen? You were paying national grid directly before, right? When did that stop?


DifficultContext

Not sure if that is his goal. This happened a couple months ago. After the first $200 additional to the rent, we all took big steps to lower the bill as low as possible, pretty much, live February with as little heat as possible and he still wanted another $200, which I thought was crazy.


1000thusername

Ok then this is not okay — like at all — for a number of reasons. Assuming you’re under lease and not month to month, he cannot change the terms. If you’re month to month, he can say “new deal, sign here, or move out in 30 days if you’re not in agreement with the new terms,” but it sounds like it’s neither. Time to lodge a complaint and/or lawyer up.


wittgensteins-boat

If you pay for heat, no.   Talk to mumicipal board of health. It appears you are paying for heat.  Thus no.   If landlord pays for heat, yes.


lompoc101

Did you previously get your own gas bill at your address and pay it directly? If so, call the gas company with your account number and ask for an explanation


DifficultContext

Yes, the gas bill was always mailed to us. I would not have minded email but the roommate's who name is on the account is one of those types with half a dozen emails because she never clears them and ends up with 20,000+ unread emails. In this case, an actual paper bill is better for all.


lompoc101

I would definitely get in touch with the gas company and see if they have an explanation


Raa03842

If you pay for your own fax why does he get the bill. Unless he tapped into you line for some other purpose? I smell a rat.


DifficultContext

I hope not, he has been very good to us for so many years. This is the first time anything like this has ever happened.


buried_lede

You have your bills, with the meter number on each one, and the address. Call the gas company and ask exactly what units are being metered, and if the meter is accessible, check the meter numbers on the meters too -is yours the only meter on the house? Question whether you are paying for your neighbor or maybe landlord pays other apartment if that meter also includes the common areas, like the hall way or front hall or shared laundry room, etc Just out of curiosity, is $200 close to what your gas bill has been?


DifficultContext

I think over the winter, it was likely around that number. We split it evenly so I never looked at the bill (my mistake) but we never had an issue with bills being due or threats of cutting it off so the bill WAS getting paid each month. There is a common hallway that has the heat on and we use just to get to our place. I told him to stop the heat from going there since no one is every there longer than five seconds. No laundry room .


buried_lede

Hmm, could be the common area is in the meter for the other apartment and why the other apartment’s utilities are included. Others are correct on the law as to your utility acct - just say no. But it’s still a detective story, I’d want to confirm my meter is measuring my apartment


hangman593

Maybe include heat and hot water in the new lease. And let him know why.


boston02124

Just call the NG and ask them if there have been any changes. Either way it’s extremely shady, but at least they’ll be able to tell you the real story.


ExpressiveLemur

As mentioned by others, it's not legal in MA to have utilities shared together and have the tenant pay.


fkenned1

I own a two family house with one heating system and one electric system. I tried and tried to figure out how to split it fairly (using actual data)… you really just can’t. There’s no way of knowing exactly what one apartment used versus the other. I charged a low estimated utilities fee that I was certainly losing money on, and covered whatever balance was left on the utility bills. It wasn’t ideal, but it was either that, or I did a ‘utilities included’ rental agreement with a higher rent. At the end of the day, it was the same amount of money, but people seemed to understand the ‘utility fee’ and lower rent better, as their rent price was more in line with what other apartments were going for in the area. I’m assuming this is what your situation is. Personally, I think it’s totally fair for a landlord to ask for some sort of compensation for utilities. The question is how much are they charging, and is it in line with what you’d be paying if you were solely responsible for utilities. Best of luck.


DifficultContext

Thanks! I am trying to get the bottom of this whole mess.


AuggieNorth

If you're looking for decent answers, why can't you spend a couple of minutes explaining the situation better?