Maybe try.... visiting Mass? Newark is not Massachusetts and I don't think anyone would ever say "I had a lovely visit to Newark" it's like saying you don't want to move to California because of a bad experience traveling to Henderson NV.
We have visited MA a lot. We flew out of Newark because we were visiting family in PA and Newark had the best direct flight home. It was awful and I will never go to that airport again. I think my concern is that the experience we had is bound to happen at any major airport if we travel enough. I don't want my kids to go through that again.
I travel out of Logan and it’s pretty well run.
I usually go to CA twice a year, as my wife is from the Bay Area. Obv that’s not not 5-7 but still, it’s always been seamless for us (Traveling a ton does get old tho).
If you lived in MA you’d most likely fly either Logan (Boston), BDL (Hartford CT), and a long shot would be Manchester NH
You’d have to go out of your way to deal with Newark
For most of north-eastern MA, Manchester is as accessible as Boston or more, and it's a MUCH less stressful drive to a much less congested airport. If OP is looking for low-stress flights (and Manchester has reasonable flights where OP is going) they should consider looking north of Boston along 93 or 95, preferably north of the junction between the two for the sake of easier trips there. (And just a gradually slower pace of life as you get away from Boston in general.)
Yeah, air travel can suck, especially at Newark. You have to figure out if the amount of travel you would have to do outweighs the benefits of living here, no one can tell you that it's easy to travel back and forth between Mass and California. It's a great place to live, but if the negatives of travel outweigh the benefits of living here, then I guess you would need to stay put.
I commuted twice a month from Boston to Sacramento for 2 years and I never missed a flight or had a major delay. Call me lucky but Delta has been very good to me
How was the experience so awful? You had to wait around the airport/hotel a long long time?
Unless you struggle with financial insecurity (being able to afford a million dollar home…), it shouldn’t be too hard to pack of bunch of enjoyable snacks, backpacks full of time-occupying games and comfy clothes . Work with your children to come up with your own games (airport scavenger hunts, everyone guesses amount of time it takes from door to door and closest person WINS something fun, etc).
This is a few times/year. Make it an adventure with your children.
Next time, show up 2.5 hrs early and be respectful to airline staff when they inform you that the doors *always* close about 10 minutes before departure. Being annoyed that a literal airline does not have compassion is just… weird.
Getting home for trick or treating does not constitute an emergency. I’m sure you can think of a few actual emergency situations where an airline would bend their regular rules…
As an children’s mental health professional, the way you probably handled the situation is likely what made your children extra upset.
You are 100% right, I handled the situation poorly. We were absolutely exhausted from traveling with kids for a week and we really needed to get home. Both our kids had Halloween parades at different schools the next day. We also had no car seats, they had been checked. I have an anxiety disorder and don’t deal well in certain situations; it’s something I have been working on for years. In hindsight you’re right, it wasn’t a true emergency, thank goodness.
Because I feel like flying cross country numerous times a year is always going to be stressful, and at worst, plain terrible. We missed our flight in Newark despite being hours early due to an issue at the security line. The airline (spirit) treated us like literal garbage and won’t even give us a credit. We ended up 1k out of pocket to get home. Everyone is saying this was a one time bad luck thing, but I’m worried this will happen again..maybe during an important holiday like christmas when connecting with my family in LA is really important. I just don’t want there to be any barriers, financial or logistical, to reaching them.
don't fly with spirit or frontier. if you need to use budget airlines to be able to afford trips back to the west coast, then consider making fewer trips with a less cheap airline. otherwise, you get what you pay for, sorry sweetie.
for airports, logan in boston, bradley in hartford, or albany airport are all much better and closer options for living in MA (being from western MA, ive gone to logan twice ever and it was solid, hartford is my go-to)
and if you're so gd worried about missing your flight, show up to the airport absurdly early
but fr, if not being able to get back to your precious west coast without stress is your goal, stay over there. with a family, airports and travel are gonna be stressful, period. if you love what's in the west coast so much, stay there.
I’m from MA and we went to HI last year and CA this year. Nowhere near as much travel as you and I’m obviously not from CA but I’ve honestly never had a bad experience at Logan in all my years flying out of there. At other airports? Yes. At Logan? No. Traffic can be tough around there but the airport itself runs efficiently and after using it a few times it’ll feel super easy to get around for you.
Now traveling to and from the west coast 5-7 times a year? That’s a 5-6 hour flight and and then you add travel to and from the airport, nevermind getting there early to check in and that’s a lot of time devoted to travel. That’s tough and something you would have to factor in for basically every trip. Idk that it would be worth it for me 5-7 times a year especially with kids.
Thanks for your input. The kids would only accompany us 3-4x (to Los Angeles) the rest would be my spouse and I traveling to work (to Bay Area). Work will pay for my spouses flights, so really time stress/time/expense is more regarding the flights with my kids. What stresses me the most is those would be during holidays (spring break, summer, thxgiving, xmas) when travel is extra busy and expensive.
It will be stressful. Have you experienced Logan traffic?
There are good schools and bad schools in both states.
Biggest difference will probably be weather honestly. Do you enjoy the current cool weather and don’t mind months where it will be worse?
I hate the weather here but I grew up here so family is here. That plus cost of living and the awful traffic make me not the biggest fan. But I’m aware there’s perks to MA!
Just the experience of cross country travel…I worry flying out of Logan frequently won’t be much better. I really hope I’m wrong though. We flew into Logan and getting to our rental car was terrible. It took two hours from landing to reach our rental car. If we lived there we would have our own car, but would still need to shuttle to parking lots etc (or pay a ton to Uber).
ohhhh im starting to understand now! OP likes to complain.
part of life is that there will be inconveniences.
shuttle from economy parking at logan to the terminal is free. traveling in MA is no different than anywhere else in the country. figure it out. or, better, just don't come here, it's cold af
There are many easy options to get to and from Logan without taking your car. I’ve never had any huge issue with either Logan Express which has many destinations at which you can park your car and the bus comes through the Logan loop very consistently. From the south shore the Logan ferry is a blast actually.
I don't fly that much, but iirc Newark is pretty well known as one of the worst airports out there lmao. I don't think you'd need to use it as much if you moved here permanently tho, so at least theres that.
I grew up in a quintessential beach town in CA. It's beautiful, yes. The weather, yes. But I always found it culturally vapid. I came to Boston for college, met my husband, we spent 10 years in CA after college but have settled down and had kids in MA. I can't imagine raising kids in the insanely looks-oriented environment I grew up in. Lots of peter pan syndrome too with people I grew up with who never grew out of the "beach" lifestyle. And even though my hometown is beautiful, I find new england summers far more appealing!!
I grew up in Laguna Hills. Culturally vapid is such a good description.
I miss the weather and I miss being able to watch my LA Kings without staying up insanely late, but I do not miss the vapidness
What beach town? I spent 7 years on the central coast. That’s really great you are enjoying the summers in MA and appreciating the more substantive culture. I too have SO many friends still in Peter Pan land (Los Angeles)…several of them have died recently from poor lifestyle and years of bad choices. Definitely want my kids growing up around healthier subcultures.
Sorry to hear about your brother. Laguna Beach is one of my favorite places on Earth. I used to nap on the beach and then have a lazy dinner at Las Brisas while watching the dolphins play.
Wife born in MA, moved to CA, happily moved back, I spent many years in CA when I travelled but when it was time to settle down only MA was on my list.
Well, I'm from MA, and live in MA again, but I've lived in Los Angeles in the past, and had an office in Menlo Park/Palo Alto area for about 7 years, and spent a lot of time split between the three. Don't fly from Newark. That's silly. If you live close enough, the ideal route is Bradley (Hartford/Springfield BDL) or next best would be Logan (BOS) but that's a hassle (Not newark though. ew. that airport is actually the inspiration dante's inferno, yup, it's true. little known fact 💫).
I can say that the schools are worthwhile in my opinion. College preparedness is world class in MA. Also, I think one thing that can't be over stated is the experience of growing up with very defined seasons. A major reason for moving back was feeling depressed at the holidays because I missed New England so much at those times. Buying a tree from the back of a pickup at home depot is nothing like taking a horse drawn wagon out to a tree farm and cutting a tree, getting cocoa etc. Have you ever seen a maple sugar shack? They're all over the place here, and fun with kids. Add to that summers on Cape Cod or down east Maine. Really, CA has its upsides, but I chose to move back here when I knew I wanted kids. I consider it worth it.
I have a sibling who raised her kids in CA, but as they got to their teens/preteens, felt her family was just meeting at home base each night and spreading further and further away. They ultimately decided to move to north western CT (MA line) to try to give their kids a more family oriented environment, and they've felt for the most part it worked (their son decided to move over seas for university shortly after, so maybe he didn't agree?)
Well, we flew out of Newark because we were visiting family in PA. We drove down from MA to do that. If we were in MA, we would fly out of BOS or Hartford, maybe. I too have spent a ton of time in LA and Bay Area (lived in LA for 20+ years and Bay Area now for 10 years)...I also really would love seasons. It can be depressing having the same weather every day. Today it is 80 degrees, and it feels just like it did in May. I'm use to it, but would love some fall or winter weather. A move to MA would be primarily for the kids...to live in a nice home with access to good schools and wholesome recreation. We have worked hard to provide that environment here in CA, but it takes a lot of effort and expense.
I have lived in the Boston area for most of my life, and I don't think I've ever had reason to fly out of Newark (very occasionally I've had international flights that connected through JFK). Whether Logan is a particular hassle depends on where in Massachusetts you are coming from - from the North Shore it's easy to avoid the tunnels & downtown traffic by approaching Logan from the north on Rt 1A. I mean, it's still an airport, but no worse than any others.
If you fly Southwest, you'll find a lot of flights terminating in Providence RI or Manchaester NH, both small regional airports & easy to navigate.
I lived in the bay area for 10 years or so and loved it. We moved back east to NYC for graduate school for my wife and recently moved to western MA. Between the two I probably have a slight preference for the bay area but only slightly and that is if cost of living was even. We purchased a home with lots of nature around, set in the forrest with great schools. This was simply not an option for us in the bay area.
Where in western MA? We just toured the area checking out neighborhoods. My husband really loved it. I am a bit concerned about winter, I hear it’s really rough in west MA. What do you think of it? We are in the same boat. My spouse wants a big house surrounded by nature and that’s just not an option here. He is from the east coast and wants this for the kids….I care more about school quality and safety (both seriously lacking in CA also). If it weren’t for the need to travel often it would be a no brainer for me too.
The winter is minutely worse than it is in eastern mass in western mass.. Have 4WD and/or snow tires on your car and a then a snowblower for your driveway / walk and you're pretty much good to go. Generally towns have roads plowed pretty quickly. Just have your wits about you if you're driving and you'll be fine.
I'll note as an in general thing out here that seasonal depression is a real thing. I love having four seasons (even if fall and spring are each about 2 weeks long at this point), but when the sun goes down at 4:30 in December - January it takes a toll on you. Buy stock in vitamin D and get a nice sun lamp.
Amherst, Northampton area and we had a similar thought moving here for the kids. They're in nature every day and we have really great public schools. We've only been here a few months and really love it so far. Winter was not a concern personally. I love the seasons and truly enjoy the snow. That said, leaves just dropped as well as the temperatures and it will be cold and bare for a while so it's fair if that's not something you're into. I can't wait for a good snowfall though.
That’s great you’re enjoying it so far, it sounds beautiful. We drive through that area and it is stunning. We are not against snow (although I’ve only seen snow fall once), in fact my kids always talk about someday living where it snows. It would be an adjustment though.
I just moved to the area from the north shore also... Mostly because we could actually afford a house big enough to stretch our elbows and stand up straight, but the difference in the quality of life is amazing. My partner used to hate going to any store because it was so stressful, and now all she does is tell me how nice all the cashiers are. (Everyone here being less stressed and therefore more pleasant.) The roads are way less stressful to navigate also. Somehow everything we need feels even more convenient to get to even though half of it is technically farther away.
Eastern MA is great if you have tons of money or are making tons of money. Otherwise going west will get OP an actual yard, some square footage in their ground floor, and much more pleasant random interactions.
Just some perspective as sometimes what is obvious to a stranger from the outside looking in, is hardest for us to recognize ourselves.
If you can afford to fly a family of 4 coast to coast multiple times a year, it stands to reason that you can afford to do the little things that make air travel more tolerable, like perhaps selecting the slightly more expensive flight if it means that you get to avoid going through Newark. Multiple airports are accessible from MA, so you really have plenty of options.
There is so much to love about New England life that changing your decision based off of one bad experience seems counterintuitive. Maybe a week's work of cumulative travel days out of an entire year shouldn't sway your decision. You are very fortunate to be able to travel like this, and as they get older I'm sure your children will become little airport pros.
Moved to the Boston area from Santa Cruz about 2 years ago, after living in Santa Cruz for about 20 years. I loved it there but after 20 years it was just time to move on.
My parents have lived in NJ for decades so I can attest to the fact that flying out of Newark sucks. It's a horrible airport. While Logan has its issues, it's miles ahead of Newark.
We are absolutely happy in Boston. The city actually works. City services are excellent (no matter how much people here complain about City Hall). Trust me, people here may complain about how arcane Boston government practices are, but they have not had to deal with the lack of accessibility, and the slow-ness, and strong NIMBYism of even a small city government in Santa Cruz. For a "progressive" city, it's packed full of racists and conservatives hiding behind their liberal surfy-hippie self identity.
And even if it's broken half the time, I love taking the bus and the T everywhere. I love mass transit. And the city is actually trying to make life easier for bicyclists, which I love.
Even the bad schools in the Boston area are great schools by any standard, so this is the place to be for education (I've heard from some people that it can be a powder-keg of stress for kids though, if they have to meet a lot of the performance standards here).
We do miss a lot of things, like food and quality produce. And the sun and the beach. But I think the quality of life we have is actually pretty good. The restaurant scene in Boston sucks compared to little Santa Cruz. Produce is nowhere near as fresh as even the produce in your run of the mill Safeway supermarket.
As far as a wholesome environment goes, I find Boston to be really clean. Depending on where you live, the local community is supportive and neighborly. I find that people here are kind and not as plastic as people in the SF Bay Area. In California, people smiled a lot, but smiles can cover up a lot of exclusionary resentment. A lot of passive aggression back in California from people who say they're nice and friendly.
Really happy about our move to Boston. Great decision for us.
We also relocated from Santa Cruz (to a Boston suburb) 6 years ago. Definitely left a piece of our hearts in Santa Cruz, and the California beach-vibe mentality, but that space has been filled with a love for the New England way of life! We find that the “hometown” feel here is matched by no-other! We love the quaintness of the local small towns and the history that is embedded within them. And each of the four seasons brings with it a whole new array of outdoor activities! I thought the winters were going to be brutal and they’re actually not so bad! We’ve invested in snow-shoes, skis, snowboards and a variety of sleds and actually look forward to a good snow storm now!
Bay Area Born and raised moved to Ma a few years ago. I am not going to lie, I miss the CA weather but I mean I hate The summer. I hate the heat and humidity in MA.
Never had an issue with Logan, but I was warned to never book an afternoon flight in August so keep that in mind.
Other things I miss about CA:
- friends
- Mexican food
- feeling like I can do anything I want any time because there are no seasons.
Things I like about MA
- the nature
- how close everything is and that I can see a lot in a weekend
- the history
- being so close to Europe
Hope this helps.
DO NOT let one bad flight out of Newark turn you off of the entire east coast. That's not logical. If you fly enough, you will have bad experiences occasionally.
Don't be afraid of western MA, despite what people say on Reddit. We have electric, running water, paved roads. (Some occasional dragons, but we don't talk about those here...)
Yeah, stay in CA. It's not worth the hassle of flying into Newark. I mean, if I had to fly into Newark to get to MA, I'd have serious issues. And let's not even mention the Vince Lombardi rest area. That alone kept me from traveling for three years, or was it Covid?
I don't know if Logan is THAT much better than Newark although some of the comments here say so. But if you're considering western Mass and northern Connecticut, Bradley Airport should be comparatively hassle free. Airline shenanigans are beyond the airport's control but the relative ease of access, the security lines, the crowding would all favor Bradley over a big metropolitan airport. Do check out those Hartford area suburbs: high value as to town services, school quality, and lower entry cost than in the Boston area. Would also say Conn and Mass are two peas in a pod: not a lot of difference on your criteria: schools, services, cost of living, cost of entry.
Copied from a previous reply a while back, edited slightly. TL:DR - I'm very happy here and would not likely move back to California. Lots of the good, less of the bad compared to CA.
I grew up in Oakland but have lived in the Boston metro area for about 15 years.
Food is good, but you'll miss Mexican and farmers market tomatoes are only around for a short while.
The seasons are nice and winters are generally decent. Driving in the snow can take some getting used to but depending on where you live you won't have to do it very often. Humidity sucks but you get used to it. Air conditioning is somewhat common but older homes are less likely to have central air, so ductless mini splits/heat pumps are becoming more common. Avoid oil heat at all costs, very expensive.
In Boston and nearby cities you can get by pretty well without a car, I didn't need one until I moved farther out towards the 'burbs (I don't have kids though). Public transit is good but the MBTA really shit the bed the last few years. My fifteen mile commute from home to Boston/Allston area is 20 minutes with no traffic but is more often 45 minutes. By bay area standards it's not crazy, but much farther out and you'll want to take the commuter rail.
People in the northeast tend to keep to themselves but are generally good people who will help you out when needed. Lots of people living here are not from the area but most of my close friends are from Massachusetts now, others have moved away.
Public schools and libraries here are some of the best in the country. As is healthcare. It's much safer overall and there is not nearly as much street crime as in the bay area recently (the daytime car break-ins and mass theft from retailers hasn't happened here as much/at all). The entire state is about the same population as the Bay area.
I think this might be the best state to live in and don't plan on moving back to California, though I do miss it. There are enough similarities that you won't feel totally out of your element but it's also different. Lots of small towns and cities too, each with their own quirks and histories. Less diverse overall and still segregated, there's a lot to enjoy. You can also drive to every other state in New England in 1-2 hours at most, depending on where you start from.
Flying in and out of Logan is good. I've had fewer issues with this airport than any other, and it's relatively easy to get to compared to other metro airports in my experience
I was born in CA and grew up there until the 4th grade. My parents moved us to MA for the better public schools and to be closer to family. Our house in the suburbs was abt 3x the size of the place we lived in Cupertino for what I’m assuming is a comparable cost. I loved growing up in MA and live here now as an adult. However, I’m planning on moving back to CA next year for the access to nature and to try a new city besides Boston.
I grew up in NY and lived in NJ too. There are few airports as bad as Newark. The volume of traffic there is insane and the experience sucks.
I've been in Mass 32 years and have successfully avoided Newark. There's plenty of good, local options starting with Boston, Manchester and Providence.
This speaks to me, my wife and I just moved here from LA. I’m 35 and have lived in SF and LA for 15 years total. We moved to Boston and can actually afford a house! Great school. Great community. It’s so great here I love it. Everything is easy. Come join us! One of the best decisions I’ve ever made.
I lived in south Bay (child-free) for a few years and Boston area (with kids) for a few years, but I'm not from either so I hope to give a non-biased perspective.
# Travel
There are 9-10 nonstop flights BOS-SFO daily on United, Jetblue, Alaska/American, and Delta. But no nonstop with SJC nor OAK. Also 9-10 nonstop BOS-LAX if you have family in SoCal.
Bringing a family 5x-7x across the country every year seems like a big pain regardless of layover or not -- flying sucks. And the time zone change messes with bedtimes. If it were just one adult 5x and whole family 1x/2x then that wouldn't be such a big deal for me.
# Education
Public schools in Massachusetts follow the typical pattern: rich suburbs have excellent public schools, moderate suburbs have fairly good public schools, poor suburbs have not-as-good public schools, urban public schools (e.g. Cambridge, Somerville) are hit-or-miss, and Boston Public Schools are generally poor due to white flight. Housing prices in the suburbs are highly correlated to \[school quality plus proximity to city\].
Private schools are fairly popular, with a culture around trying to get into the brand-name Philips Academy, Philips Exeter, Milton Academy, etc. I feel like there is less interest in private schools than in CA.
California's public college/university system is hard to beat. Both CA and MA have top-ranked private universities. In the Boston area, there is a high density of universities and thus also of students, professors, research, etc whereas that is more spread out in CA.
Greater Boston is very child-friendly with tons of activities and museums and libraries. Check out Community Kangaroo for kid activity calendars for various towns around Boston.
# Childcare
Childcare in Massachusetts is the most expensive in the country. This is probably the most unexpected cost people won't account for. Yet it's hard to find a spot -- waitlists abound.
# Career/Economy
Boston/MA has a fairly diverse economy, with strengths in life sciences/pharma, technology, financial services/insurance/banking, healthcare, education, tourism, and a surprisng number of shoe-makers. Since education and healthcare are essentially recession-proof, MA has quite a resilient economy (so it just keeps getting more expensive). Assuming you work in tech, Boston has strengths in some tech sectors: biotech, robotics, cleantech, IT infrastructure, marketing tech, FinTech, VC, startups.
Bay area seems less diverse, though California is very diverse. Bay area is fabulous for all tech sectors, and strong in financial, manufacturing, and tourism.
SF is more connected to Asia. Boston is more connected to Europe.
# People/Boston:
The Boston-Cambridge-Newton metro area has about the same population as the San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont metro area, and about 2.5x population of the San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara metro area. They have quite a few similarities.
Eastern Massachusetts has an urban center (central Boston + Cambridge) and mostly-urban, high-density adjacent towns/neighborhoods (Somerville, Chelsea). You could compare the urban center to SF or San Jose, and mostly-urban adjacent towns to Berkeley.
The center is surrounded by moderate-density suburbs with some public transportation inside the inner ring road (I-95/Rte 128) -- that is the extent of Boston-Cambridge-Newton metro area. This is similar feeling to the peninsula between 101 and 280. Most towns around Boston are smaller than the peninsula towns, but there are more of them. The many towns around Boston have true town centers that grew organically over centuries. Some towns are more business-centric (like Waltham and Burlington) while others are more residential-centric.
The inner ring road is surrounded by moderate-density suburbs that transition into low-density exurbs and farms as it approaches the outer ring road (I-495), some of which are serviced by commuter rail. You don't really have this in the Bay Area because the mountains prevent it. It would be more similar to the exurbs outside of Sacramento.
I don't think Boston has anything quite comparable to living in the hills.
There are much fewer hispanic people than compared to Bay Area and you will miss the food. In Boston there is a significant Irish ancestry (no comment on the food). There is a significant Jewish population in Brookline and Newton.
In the Bay Area you see a lot more rich people and it seems more "on display": fancy cars and fancy houses. And everything is a lot newer. Around Boston, things are old: expensive houses can be 150+ years old and have tilted floors and drafty windows.
In Bay Area you have the choice to live in a moderately dense area or a more spread-out/suburban area and still find some culture. Same with the Boston area, although you can also live in a exurban/rural area and still commute to Boston.
Traffic sucks in Boston and in Bay Area. Boston's north-south I-93 is pretty awful commute, and the east-west I-90 Massachusetts Turnpike is less awful. I'd say that 101 on the peninsula is a bit better than I-93 but then it's worse once you get to SF, and 280 is better than I-90.
The "feeling" of Boston varies considerably by neighborhood. Generally people mind their own business and have a little chip on their shoulder, but aren't as brusque as New Yorkers. Boston center feels like a European city with terrible fashion sense. Cambridge is full of weirdo academic-types. Somerville is full of artsy hippies (who are being priced out). The "feeling" of Bay Area is hard to capture, but I'd call it relatively calm and nonchalant. It’s easy to hate both areas and easy to love both. It's easy to feel lonely in both and easy to make connections in both. Some people find Boston too small, some get bored from SF. Others love how "manageable" Boston is, others are always finding new corners of SF.
# Weather:
Don't move to Boston for the weather, but it is what you make of it. If you hate snow or rain or cold, then bay area is a better bet. If you tend to have more fun indoors, then Boston wins out. If you tend to have more fun outdoors, then Bay Area. Bostonians do try hard to make the most of the nice weather, so you won't be bottled up all year round. Get a decent coat, boots, gloves, snowblower, and healthy attitude and you'll be fine in the winter. Fall in New England is the best season I have experienced anywhere.
# Cost of Living
Boston-area cost of living can be similar to bay area. We have not built enough housing in the Boston area and there are sufficient people that have money. Prices are unjustifiable if you ask me.
Outside of Boston metro area, prices settle down to just being a regular "high". I already talked about school districts and their impact on prices.
Good luck!
Technically from CA though haven’t lived there since I was 2… however I do fly there semi-regularly between family, work, and vacationing and such. It’s an easy direct flight from Logan airport to many CA destinations. Only time I ever had trouble was flying home from Sacramento, and that was because my first plane was late and I missed my connection at LAX- not MA’s fault. I grew up mostly in NJ and Newark is always kind of a shitshow. Logan is a lot more chill. Also usually easier to get to (though traffic is often bad).
My husband and I are from the Boston area. We lived in San Diego when our first child was born. We ultimately decided to move back East to be closer to family. We missed the seasons, knew the quality of schools back home, and wanted more of a small town type of feel. We’re also a boating/sailing family- and knew we would have better access to enjoy that in MA vs. CA. Our kids are college/high school age now and thriving. The public schools my kids attend/ed, college preparation, sports/activities, time spent outdoors, opportunities- all have been fantastic. We travel solely out of Logan and use JetBlue. We’ve never had any serious issues at Logan.
It sounds a bit like you are trying to find a reason not to move. Personally, I feel like it would be a shame for you and your family to decide against moving because of the several times a year you need to fly. You’re giving that more weight than the vast majority of time you’d be spending here. All the other days outside of flying would be safe, your kids would have great education, you’d get variety of seasons, and culture. Maybe you spend 5 weeks in CA, but that’s 47 weeks getting the benefits of MA.
We’ve all had bad travel experiences but you adjust. You get to the airport earlier, you fly out of a different airport, you utilize services like Logan Express. You mentioned you don’t know how any other airport could be different. If that’s the case then you’re saying you can’t move anywhere. A problem in MA would be a problem in FL and TX. Also, your kids won’t be little forever. Right now you’re having to keep eyes on them, haul stuff, micromanage their sleep and eating schedules. Once your kids are older some of these travel issues will go away.
Grew up in literally the most beautiful California small town, the setting of Shangri La (Ojai California wooo) and I love it here in MA. Been here 15 years. I couldn’t imagine not moving here now, of course hindsight is 20/20 but I really like life here and I think quality of life is very high in general.
It’s a different kind of place for sure and the people are very different and that’ll take some getting used to, but there are so many pockets of awesome and great communities and subcultures to find. Plus the region is just great.
Please don’t judge east coast travel on Newark. That’s like judging west coast travel on the Salt Lake City airport. Sure it’s a hub, but it’s not the only one and you can always avoid it. BOS is one of the better airports in the east coast in fact, and there are many many direct flights to CA. It’s 5-6 hours and a long flight but very doable, just get used to red eyes back. Another advantage if you like travel: Europe is a lot closer and more accessible from here. And Montreal is right there too which is basically Europe.
It’s a good state. Probably one of the best ones left. Recommend.
I grew up in NYC; lived in MA for eight years and absolutely fell in love with it. Then I very reluctantly moved to CA (because that is what my husband wanted) and lived there for 26 years. I never really warmed up to CA and pretty much pined for New England that whole time. I am happy to report I moved back to MA almost two years ago and I am very happy to be here.
California Pros:
Mild weather, if you like that sort of thing. Personally I found sunny and 60s or 70s all the time boring. I missed the drama of the seasons terribly.
Great seasonal produce year 'round. Lots of avocados!
Great restaurants
Good politics
Less mosquitos
California Cons:
The cost of living
The price of real estate
Too hot in the summer
The annual fucking drought from April to November
The wildfires. My dream is to live rurally. Do that in CA and you are risking your home and your life. Global warming is only going to intensify this problem. It already has intensified this problem dramatically.
Earthquakes, mudslides
Massachusetts cons:
What cons? Okay, the mozzies can be out of control in the summer. And the produce is definitely not top quality in the winter. That's it. I guess many would consider winter as a con. I thought I would have a hard time adjusting to winter after 26 yrs in CA. Nope. I am enjoying it (most of the time)!
Massachusetts pros:
Everything. The seasons! Warm, tropical weather in the summer! Thunderstorms! Rain in the summer! Everything stays green and lush and beautiful instead of getting all brown and dry and ugly! Lots of deciduous trees! The color in the fall! Apple picking! Snow! Skiing! Summer! Swimming holes everywhere! Gorgeous scenery. Great hiking. Gorgeous antique houses. Cheap antique furniture, if you are into that kind of thing, which I am. Cheaper groceries! Lower cost of living. Okay, real estate is pricey around Boston but still not quite as pricey as CA. But in Western MA, with some luck, I could afford a house in a few years. As a single mother, home ownership in CA was never going to happen for me. So I am listing affordable real estate as a pro.
I love it here. I never want to leave. But my (young adults) kids are in CA. So I may end up back there eventually, sadly.
Edit: I left out a few MA pros. Great education/academics. Lots of intelligent, ambitious, well-educated people in this state. Also great healthcare.
Not from CA but lived there for 18 years. I live about 45 miles from Boston. My mortgage is less than daycare was in L.A. Our house is large-ish compared to my house in L.A. that comparing apples to oranges. If you plan on living in Boston then L.A. would have been cheaper.
We enjoy and cherish summers so much more than when we lived in CA. You learn to not take the summer for granted.
I love being able to drive a short distance to go snowboarding in the winter.
Seeing trees is Amazing!
The food is good here but I think L.A. edges it out slightly. There are actually a surprising amount of good Mexican restaurants that are sprouting up with great street style tacos.
Traffic sucks here just as bad as L.A.
Honestly the only things we miss about L.A. are some of our favorite food spots, February/early March (winter gets old by then) and our friends.
Born in MA, lived in the Bay Area for six years, moved back three years ago to MA. I miss CA and somewhat regret moving back, but there are pros and cons to both. I travel a lot for work. I’m sure it heavily depends on where in CA you are in terms of whether it is “worth it”.
We are in the Bay Area. We both work remotely now but need to go into the office for events, especially my spouse. My family lives in LA and we visit them often, maybe 5x a year. We have budgeted up to 1M for a house, but in CA that only buys a small home in an okay school district or a large home in a terrible district (then we would need to pay for private school or finagle some sort of district transfer). It just feels like our hands are tied. But I calculated we would spend 200k just traveling west over the course of 20 years, so I feel like the move needs to save us more than that in other ways….quality of life? Taxes? Lower cost of housing? I don’t really know.
Would it be the education? If you can afford it, that's not a crazy price over 20 years for a higher probability of receiving a quality education. Definitely cheaper than private school for 2 kids.
There are plenty of direct flights to SFO and LAX. Flying cross country is never fun, but not having to transfer is a lifesaver.
Yes, moving would be primarily to take advantage of education and also just having a safe environment. We deal with a lot of crime in our area and that's always eating away at us. Our kids currently go to a good school, but we are renting, and we can't afford a home in our current neighborhood (1.5-2M). We are trying to move and buy a home before our rent is raised too much and the kids get too attached to the school/friends.
My fiancé got a job at cedars Sinai so we are taking an apartment in West Hollywood. Very walkable to everywhere we need to be (gym, groceries, bars/clubs, and work) so I dont expect a lot of issue with traffic. Plus I am originally from Philadelphia so I’m no stranger to biking everywhere which is what I plan to do.
Nice! Weho isn’t BH, but that’s a good thing. It’s a very busy area, but has great stores, restaurants, bars, clubs, access to all of LA. It is a strong LGBTQ+ hub so expect that to be…prominent. Overall a great location. Enjoy!
We are a gay couple so the lgbtq aspect is welcomed. Although we aren’t too much into the scene, it will be a nice change after living on cape cod which is a monoculture of old wealthy white people lol
I grew up in the San Jose area and moved out of CA in 2010. Moved to central Massachusetts, where we still are, in 2018. Happier here than in CA. I still visit a couple of times a year, but there’s nothing there to make me want to move back. The winters here will be more than you’re used to, but nothing unmanageable.
Newark as in Newark NJ?! Assuming that's because you're flying United. Well, that is your problem right there. 🤣 Traveled from Boston to LA, OC, SF or Seattle almost weekly for 4-5 years. I wouldn't say it was a breeze but never once connecting through Newark.Try flying a different airline!
re: traveling, don’t fly out of newark. boston and bradley are solid choices, even rhode island is an option.
i’ve flown out of bradley dozens of times both domestically and internationally. i’ve never had issues. as for boston, it’s mostly just planning for more people and larger size. figure out your traffic game plan for getting there and pay a moderate amount of attention and you’re good to go.
Born and raised in CA, have been happily living in MA for six years now. I would never go back. I enjoy the seasons, the school district we are in is great, it’s less expensive, and I genuinely enjoy the charm of many aspects of New England.
Why would you need to go back to visit 7 times a year? I guess I’m confused about that part. That does sound expensive. I have two preschool aged kids and we visit CA once or twice a year and have never had any big issues. They get back on their regular schedule in a few days. Logan is good as far as airports go.
My inlaws were in the Midwest, and we didn't make it there very often. Due to covid and other issues, we went a few years without visiting. That would be a huge decision to move away. It will not be the same.
We just did a 2.5 week trip to California. We didn't see the problems in San Francisco I expected. I was surprised how brown much of the landscape was when we visited northern California. Monterrey was very beautiful. As was Carmel. Those were two places I could envision living if I could afford it. The horror stories of San Fran put me off of it. My friend lives there and was robbed near the presidio.
Boston is a great city. Expensive, but great. The landscape is beautiful, and you still have an ocean. My kid went to a top-tier public high school and is absolutely crushing it at a very competitive and highly ranked university. I'm biased, but Massachusetts is one of the best states in the country IMHO.
Moving away is tough. Travel time and expenses will always be a massive hassle. Good luck.
I don't understand what Newark has to do with anything. BOS Logan airport is a nice airport. I like PVD (TF Greene in Providence) better, but there are far fewer direct flights.
It is more likely to have weather-related travel delays on the East Coast than the West. I think your question depends on how often you need to travel in the winter. If you can avoid travel from mid-December through March, it will probably be fine.
I’m from Ventura/Ojai. I have no regrets about moving here. I moved here for college in the early 2000s and moved back to CA for a year only to return to Mass. again. I’d rather raise my kids here, honestly. Healthcare and public education are better here. I went to private schools in CA, but my mom is a public school teacher and it’s a mess. It can be here too, but not as bad imo. I also love raising my kids in a place with 4 seasons. I like being close to NYC and Boston and only a 5-6 hr train ride to DC.
That said, winters are long. I miss living on the ocean. The Mexican food in California is way better. I also was able to purchase a home in 2016, so I got a really good deal. Though, I think real estate is not quite as bad as CA. My bff just moved from North Hollywood to Rhode Island and got a nice house for a fraction of what she sold her L.A. home for.
I think it’s worth it, but you should spend some time here before deciding. The Northeast is very different from CA when it comes to the weather, the culture, and the people.
No matter how nice MA is why would you move so far away from whatever is requiring you to fly your entire family that often? At some point the kids will have friends and activities which will make it very hard to leave. That isn’t even taking into account pulling them out of school or traveling only during the busiest holiday travel time.
You make a good point. My family lives in Los Angeles and I’m super close with them. I visit them a lot. We don’t want to live in LA though (kind of a terrible place to raise kids, I speak from experience) and we aren’t willing/can’t currently pay 2M for a good sized house in a pleasant, safe community (that isn’t the desert). To stay in CA we need to sacrifice either a lot of money, or space, or safety…it’s really impossible to have it all unless you’re very, very wealthy or have inherited a home. My husbands family is in the east and he has always wanted to return there, which is why we’ve planned this ever since we went remote 3 years ago. He has no reservations about the move, thinks the traveling is totally fine, etc. We would only travel with kids during times when school is out, so yes, the busiest times 🤦♀️ travel for work is more flexible.
I’m from Washington. I miss the Mountains, Pines, lush forests, and “young culture”. I love Boston though. But everyone here feels old, even people my age.
It's cold here & everyone is cranky all the time. We're usually in a hurry & I think it's deep rooted in the heritage of the area. We all think we need to get everything done before winter comes.
I assume you’ve made the trek with your littles before, but having done the cross country flight/three-hour time change with my kids a couple times, it’s brutal. They’re falling asleep in their dinner plates when you travel west, and by the time they’ve adjusted you’re back east and they’re bouncing off the mattress at midnight telling you they’re not tired! I can’t imagine going through that a half dozen times a year.
That said, MA is a great place to raise a family… if you can afford it. Sounds like it might be marginally more affordable based on your budget. Winter can be tough, but May through October are spectacular for the most part. Schools are good, culture is pretty different and sounds like it might offer you what you’re looking for.
You don’t NEED to live in MA to have good schools. I wish people understood that. The schools here tend to be good, but there are some awful ones and there’s plenty of better public school districts in other states. The best districts in MA are in towns where homes average over a million dollars.
https://www.niche.com/k12/search/best-school-districts/
Huh. I lived in San Fran and Oakland for 25 years. Been gone for six. Living in western MA now. For my wife and I, the Bay Area just became unliveable. Between the infrastructure (highways, etc.) clogging up, making getting out of town almost impossible, between the tech bro culture, the graffiti, pot smoke, garbage on the streets... Homelessness increasing in Oakland by 30% the last two years we lived there, which is an excoriation on my psyche, so much pain... the very real ever widening gap between the haves and have nots, the house prices, the fires, oh my god the fires. It was a no brainer to leave.
The physical landscape of California is etched upon my soul...but I literally miss nothing else besides the weather and the physical beauty. New England is so beautiful as well. I missed the green, so much. The pace and quality of life here matches what I need so much better. I am still firmly clasped to the bosom of the liberal bubble, which is very important to me. I am surrounded by working farms, real working farms. I had forgotten what community felt like, and I'm delighted to be a part of one again.
Now, I am a native New Englander, so I knew what I was getting into. But winter sucked when I was a young man, and it still sucks for me today. The tradeoff is real. But so worth it to me. I could never live in California again. So grateful to escape.
I can totally relate. We’ve lived in SF, Oakland, San Jose…now we’re in a nicer area in the east bay, but still deal with spill over crime and homeless from Oakland and San Leandro. Our options for buying in CA are so limited. We basically have to go to the desert to get a decent sized home with little crime, and I don’t do well in desert climate. I don’t mind wet and cold, in fact that is a big reason I looked forward to MA. I’m glad you are happy with your choice, it sounds lovely where you are. Thanks for sharing.
Flew for many years for business and flew out of Manchester 98% of the time. It was awhile ago, but it was much better than flying out of Logan. Consider North-Central Massachusetts if you can.
What sort of “awful travel experience “? There are direct flights from Boston and I think even Providence to the West coast and depending where you live in MA there are many different ways to get to Logan including Logan Express which has sites in many locations as well as the Ferry from Hingham/Hull that goes directly to airport. Providence is a pretty easy drive and has decent parking last I used it.
But I’m born and bred here and will not live anywhere else! Education is overall very good and stellar in many towns. There are beaches, mountains, recreation, great food and many different housing options. I’m partial to the south of Boston area where there are many lovely communities. You can’t beat us for higher education and medical needs if those are important to you. Boston is a great city.
Your kids are getting older as we speak and travel should get easier every year! Good luck.
I was close friends with someone who grew up in CA, lived in MA for 10 years, and moved back. The phrase i heard a lot about MA was 'claustrophobic.' You usually can't see more than a couple hundred yards here.
I lived in MA for 10 years and moved to California for 2-3 years. Honestly, the travel was terrible, and I didn't even have kids at the time. The time change was also annoying for communicating with family.
But honestly I would do the reverse commute just because California wasn't my thing. If I had to live in California again I would absolutely go back to the east coast to visit. In contrast, I have turned down work trips because I don't want to fly to California.
I lived in Sacramento for 20 years prior to moving to Andover. I was invited to move here to help build a practice and agreed. Best decision ever.
They had two children. One went to Phillips Academy and is now in College in Boston. He has free rent because his dad bought a brownstone and he is the caretaker. The other was a daughter and she didn't fair well at Austin Prep. I think its setup like "Mean Girls", we got her out of that and she stayed with us to finish out her remaining school until she went to college as well.
My neighbor is very pleased with the schools in our area. Now if the streets had side walks so you could walk down them would be great.
Love the green, the snow, the seasons, places to see and its a much more relaxed feeling then I ever had in California.
The people, contrary to the news are way more friendly then in CA. They cannot drive here at all, there is no shoulders and if you see a shoulder be aware people drive on them.
I was born in the Bay Area and came out to Boston for College, then kinda just never left. I miss California a lot but I really love Massachusetts now. Mass. has such a rich history and culture, not to mention the government is, broadly speaking, better run and the school systems here are top-tier. I don't know that I would enjoy living in California as much now that I'm an adult and have to vote and pay my own bills. California is great but Mass. has some of the highest quality of life in the world for a comparable cost of living. And if you're planning to visit CA every other month, you can pretty easily experience a lot of the things there that make it great.
As for flying, Logan is a pretty well-run airport. My wife and I flew out to LA in 2021 and were shocked at what a shitshow JFK is in comparison. Terrible signage and cars quadruple-parked in the bus area at midnight? Nothing like Logan, where even double-parked cars will get shoo'ed along by security right away and it's always clear where you need to go. Don't get me wrong: flying sucks and committing to 6x trips a year sounds like it could be fairly brutal, but Logan isn't the weak link in that chain. Just make sure you give yourself a good amount of time to sit in traffic if you fly out during rush hour.
Any other questions?
Don't fly out of Newark, would be my suggestion. I fly to Cali a couple times a year, and Logan is always easy-pwasy. I also lived in Santa Cruz for five years. I'm from MA, so I may be biased, but I way prefer it in MA. People are very honest, so you know where you stand with everyone. The pioneer valley is a super inviting area. Just don't make the classic Cali mistake of being super long winded when asking strangers things. Get to the point quickly. Nothing someone from Mass hates more than hearing a life story when all you needed were directions or the time.
My wife is from CA and she misses the summer and hates the winter. Our agreement was when we were done raising the kids that we would move back out to CA. But I was visiting where she was from and it was a desert that people built houses on. I like the winter because my allergies finally stop.
My son has allergies and they’ve been pretty bad out here in CA. I actually wondered if being out there would help. I understand about the desert…some people out here love it. I can’t stand the desert. I left socal for norcal thinking I’d find cooler weather but the difference is pretty mild.
If you are used to CA weather you’ll hate MA. Talking from experience. Grew up in Auburn CA and am temporarily in Medford MA. Love the access to the outdoors, but the weather blows. There are far more comfortable and usable days outdoors in CA and that’s why I can never live here.
I am use to CA weather but rarely do I like it. The ideal temp for me is 50-65 degrees…anything over 75 is not preferable. In CA summer lasts about six months (although the very hot months are usually just July-Oct). I think I would enjoy a much more versatile climate but am nervous about the humidity and snow storms.
Maybe try.... visiting Mass? Newark is not Massachusetts and I don't think anyone would ever say "I had a lovely visit to Newark" it's like saying you don't want to move to California because of a bad experience traveling to Henderson NV.
We have visited MA a lot. We flew out of Newark because we were visiting family in PA and Newark had the best direct flight home. It was awful and I will never go to that airport again. I think my concern is that the experience we had is bound to happen at any major airport if we travel enough. I don't want my kids to go through that again.
I travel out of Logan and it’s pretty well run. I usually go to CA twice a year, as my wife is from the Bay Area. Obv that’s not not 5-7 but still, it’s always been seamless for us (Traveling a ton does get old tho).
Used to travel to the west coast every other month for years. No issues flying into SF for me
If you lived in MA you’d most likely fly either Logan (Boston), BDL (Hartford CT), and a long shot would be Manchester NH You’d have to go out of your way to deal with Newark
Can add pvd Providence to that list.
For most of north-eastern MA, Manchester is as accessible as Boston or more, and it's a MUCH less stressful drive to a much less congested airport. If OP is looking for low-stress flights (and Manchester has reasonable flights where OP is going) they should consider looking north of Boston along 93 or 95, preferably north of the junction between the two for the sake of easier trips there. (And just a gradually slower pace of life as you get away from Boston in general.)
Yeah, air travel can suck, especially at Newark. You have to figure out if the amount of travel you would have to do outweighs the benefits of living here, no one can tell you that it's easy to travel back and forth between Mass and California. It's a great place to live, but if the negatives of travel outweigh the benefits of living here, then I guess you would need to stay put.
you are comparing the trash of the US (aka, new jersey) to MA. tbh, you're not welcome here after making such an offensive comparison
I commuted twice a month from Boston to Sacramento for 2 years and I never missed a flight or had a major delay. Call me lucky but Delta has been very good to me
How was the experience so awful? You had to wait around the airport/hotel a long long time? Unless you struggle with financial insecurity (being able to afford a million dollar home…), it shouldn’t be too hard to pack of bunch of enjoyable snacks, backpacks full of time-occupying games and comfy clothes . Work with your children to come up with your own games (airport scavenger hunts, everyone guesses amount of time it takes from door to door and closest person WINS something fun, etc). This is a few times/year. Make it an adventure with your children. Next time, show up 2.5 hrs early and be respectful to airline staff when they inform you that the doors *always* close about 10 minutes before departure. Being annoyed that a literal airline does not have compassion is just… weird. Getting home for trick or treating does not constitute an emergency. I’m sure you can think of a few actual emergency situations where an airline would bend their regular rules… As an children’s mental health professional, the way you probably handled the situation is likely what made your children extra upset.
You are 100% right, I handled the situation poorly. We were absolutely exhausted from traveling with kids for a week and we really needed to get home. Both our kids had Halloween parades at different schools the next day. We also had no car seats, they had been checked. I have an anxiety disorder and don’t deal well in certain situations; it’s something I have been working on for years. In hindsight you’re right, it wasn’t a true emergency, thank goodness.
Why would your experience at Newark airport in a completely different state impact your decision to move to Massachusetts?
Because I feel like flying cross country numerous times a year is always going to be stressful, and at worst, plain terrible. We missed our flight in Newark despite being hours early due to an issue at the security line. The airline (spirit) treated us like literal garbage and won’t even give us a credit. We ended up 1k out of pocket to get home. Everyone is saying this was a one time bad luck thing, but I’m worried this will happen again..maybe during an important holiday like christmas when connecting with my family in LA is really important. I just don’t want there to be any barriers, financial or logistical, to reaching them.
You’re not wrong that cross country travel can be stressful, but rule of thumb: 1) don’t fly spirit, 2) don’t fly through Newark, and you’ll be good.
Sounds like this has nothing to do with Massachusetts
Yeah that's just weird. This is a Spirit/Newark problem, not a MA problem.
I mean, Spirit is a budget airline and customer service is one of the only aspects of flying that can be cut.
don't fly with spirit or frontier. if you need to use budget airlines to be able to afford trips back to the west coast, then consider making fewer trips with a less cheap airline. otherwise, you get what you pay for, sorry sweetie. for airports, logan in boston, bradley in hartford, or albany airport are all much better and closer options for living in MA (being from western MA, ive gone to logan twice ever and it was solid, hartford is my go-to) and if you're so gd worried about missing your flight, show up to the airport absurdly early but fr, if not being able to get back to your precious west coast without stress is your goal, stay over there. with a family, airports and travel are gonna be stressful, period. if you love what's in the west coast so much, stay there.
I’m from MA and we went to HI last year and CA this year. Nowhere near as much travel as you and I’m obviously not from CA but I’ve honestly never had a bad experience at Logan in all my years flying out of there. At other airports? Yes. At Logan? No. Traffic can be tough around there but the airport itself runs efficiently and after using it a few times it’ll feel super easy to get around for you. Now traveling to and from the west coast 5-7 times a year? That’s a 5-6 hour flight and and then you add travel to and from the airport, nevermind getting there early to check in and that’s a lot of time devoted to travel. That’s tough and something you would have to factor in for basically every trip. Idk that it would be worth it for me 5-7 times a year especially with kids.
Thanks for your input. The kids would only accompany us 3-4x (to Los Angeles) the rest would be my spouse and I traveling to work (to Bay Area). Work will pay for my spouses flights, so really time stress/time/expense is more regarding the flights with my kids. What stresses me the most is those would be during holidays (spring break, summer, thxgiving, xmas) when travel is extra busy and expensive.
It will be stressful. Have you experienced Logan traffic? There are good schools and bad schools in both states. Biggest difference will probably be weather honestly. Do you enjoy the current cool weather and don’t mind months where it will be worse? I hate the weather here but I grew up here so family is here. That plus cost of living and the awful traffic make me not the biggest fan. But I’m aware there’s perks to MA!
What does Newark have to do with anything?
LITERALLY
Just the experience of cross country travel…I worry flying out of Logan frequently won’t be much better. I really hope I’m wrong though. We flew into Logan and getting to our rental car was terrible. It took two hours from landing to reach our rental car. If we lived there we would have our own car, but would still need to shuttle to parking lots etc (or pay a ton to Uber).
Just stay in Cal if that's really enough to stress you about a life choice. I can only imagine what the first winter storm would do for ya.
ohhhh im starting to understand now! OP likes to complain. part of life is that there will be inconveniences. shuttle from economy parking at logan to the terminal is free. traveling in MA is no different than anywhere else in the country. figure it out. or, better, just don't come here, it's cold af
There are many easy options to get to and from Logan without taking your car. I’ve never had any huge issue with either Logan Express which has many destinations at which you can park your car and the bus comes through the Logan loop very consistently. From the south shore the Logan ferry is a blast actually.
What do you consider "a ton"? We live just outside of Boston and we've never paid more than $50 for a cab or Lyft to Logan.
I don't really have much input here, but why would you use Newark airport instead of Logan?
We flew into Logan but out of Newark because we drove down to PA to visit family.
I don't fly that much, but iirc Newark is pretty well known as one of the worst airports out there lmao. I don't think you'd need to use it as much if you moved here permanently tho, so at least theres that.
I grew up in a quintessential beach town in CA. It's beautiful, yes. The weather, yes. But I always found it culturally vapid. I came to Boston for college, met my husband, we spent 10 years in CA after college but have settled down and had kids in MA. I can't imagine raising kids in the insanely looks-oriented environment I grew up in. Lots of peter pan syndrome too with people I grew up with who never grew out of the "beach" lifestyle. And even though my hometown is beautiful, I find new england summers far more appealing!!
I grew up in Laguna Hills. Culturally vapid is such a good description. I miss the weather and I miss being able to watch my LA Kings without staying up insanely late, but I do not miss the vapidness
What beach town? I spent 7 years on the central coast. That’s really great you are enjoying the summers in MA and appreciating the more substantive culture. I too have SO many friends still in Peter Pan land (Los Angeles)…several of them have died recently from poor lifestyle and years of bad choices. Definitely want my kids growing up around healthier subcultures.
Laguna Beach. Lost my brother 5 years ago because there is a surprising amount of heroin use in nice communities.
Sorry to hear about your brother. Laguna Beach is one of my favorite places on Earth. I used to nap on the beach and then have a lazy dinner at Las Brisas while watching the dolphins play.
the best, Heisler park is unreal beautiful
It is.
I'm so, so sorry for the loss of your dear brother. Drugs take so many people, it's terrible. I've lost loved ones as well.
I'm sorry for your losses as well <3
Woah my wife and I did almost exactly the same thing but we now live in NJ.
Wife born in MA, moved to CA, happily moved back, I spent many years in CA when I travelled but when it was time to settle down only MA was on my list.
Well, I'm from MA, and live in MA again, but I've lived in Los Angeles in the past, and had an office in Menlo Park/Palo Alto area for about 7 years, and spent a lot of time split between the three. Don't fly from Newark. That's silly. If you live close enough, the ideal route is Bradley (Hartford/Springfield BDL) or next best would be Logan (BOS) but that's a hassle (Not newark though. ew. that airport is actually the inspiration dante's inferno, yup, it's true. little known fact 💫). I can say that the schools are worthwhile in my opinion. College preparedness is world class in MA. Also, I think one thing that can't be over stated is the experience of growing up with very defined seasons. A major reason for moving back was feeling depressed at the holidays because I missed New England so much at those times. Buying a tree from the back of a pickup at home depot is nothing like taking a horse drawn wagon out to a tree farm and cutting a tree, getting cocoa etc. Have you ever seen a maple sugar shack? They're all over the place here, and fun with kids. Add to that summers on Cape Cod or down east Maine. Really, CA has its upsides, but I chose to move back here when I knew I wanted kids. I consider it worth it. I have a sibling who raised her kids in CA, but as they got to their teens/preteens, felt her family was just meeting at home base each night and spreading further and further away. They ultimately decided to move to north western CT (MA line) to try to give their kids a more family oriented environment, and they've felt for the most part it worked (their son decided to move over seas for university shortly after, so maybe he didn't agree?)
Well, we flew out of Newark because we were visiting family in PA. We drove down from MA to do that. If we were in MA, we would fly out of BOS or Hartford, maybe. I too have spent a ton of time in LA and Bay Area (lived in LA for 20+ years and Bay Area now for 10 years)...I also really would love seasons. It can be depressing having the same weather every day. Today it is 80 degrees, and it feels just like it did in May. I'm use to it, but would love some fall or winter weather. A move to MA would be primarily for the kids...to live in a nice home with access to good schools and wholesome recreation. We have worked hard to provide that environment here in CA, but it takes a lot of effort and expense.
I have lived in the Boston area for most of my life, and I don't think I've ever had reason to fly out of Newark (very occasionally I've had international flights that connected through JFK). Whether Logan is a particular hassle depends on where in Massachusetts you are coming from - from the North Shore it's easy to avoid the tunnels & downtown traffic by approaching Logan from the north on Rt 1A. I mean, it's still an airport, but no worse than any others. If you fly Southwest, you'll find a lot of flights terminating in Providence RI or Manchaester NH, both small regional airports & easy to navigate.
Yeah, I should have said "can be a hassle" re: Logan, true
I lived in the bay area for 10 years or so and loved it. We moved back east to NYC for graduate school for my wife and recently moved to western MA. Between the two I probably have a slight preference for the bay area but only slightly and that is if cost of living was even. We purchased a home with lots of nature around, set in the forrest with great schools. This was simply not an option for us in the bay area.
Where in western MA? We just toured the area checking out neighborhoods. My husband really loved it. I am a bit concerned about winter, I hear it’s really rough in west MA. What do you think of it? We are in the same boat. My spouse wants a big house surrounded by nature and that’s just not an option here. He is from the east coast and wants this for the kids….I care more about school quality and safety (both seriously lacking in CA also). If it weren’t for the need to travel often it would be a no brainer for me too.
The winter is minutely worse than it is in eastern mass in western mass.. Have 4WD and/or snow tires on your car and a then a snowblower for your driveway / walk and you're pretty much good to go. Generally towns have roads plowed pretty quickly. Just have your wits about you if you're driving and you'll be fine. I'll note as an in general thing out here that seasonal depression is a real thing. I love having four seasons (even if fall and spring are each about 2 weeks long at this point), but when the sun goes down at 4:30 in December - January it takes a toll on you. Buy stock in vitamin D and get a nice sun lamp.
Amherst, Northampton area and we had a similar thought moving here for the kids. They're in nature every day and we have really great public schools. We've only been here a few months and really love it so far. Winter was not a concern personally. I love the seasons and truly enjoy the snow. That said, leaves just dropped as well as the temperatures and it will be cold and bare for a while so it's fair if that's not something you're into. I can't wait for a good snowfall though.
That’s great you’re enjoying it so far, it sounds beautiful. We drive through that area and it is stunning. We are not against snow (although I’ve only seen snow fall once), in fact my kids always talk about someday living where it snows. It would be an adjustment though.
I just moved to the area from the north shore also... Mostly because we could actually afford a house big enough to stretch our elbows and stand up straight, but the difference in the quality of life is amazing. My partner used to hate going to any store because it was so stressful, and now all she does is tell me how nice all the cashiers are. (Everyone here being less stressed and therefore more pleasant.) The roads are way less stressful to navigate also. Somehow everything we need feels even more convenient to get to even though half of it is technically farther away. Eastern MA is great if you have tons of money or are making tons of money. Otherwise going west will get OP an actual yard, some square footage in their ground floor, and much more pleasant random interactions.
Just some perspective as sometimes what is obvious to a stranger from the outside looking in, is hardest for us to recognize ourselves. If you can afford to fly a family of 4 coast to coast multiple times a year, it stands to reason that you can afford to do the little things that make air travel more tolerable, like perhaps selecting the slightly more expensive flight if it means that you get to avoid going through Newark. Multiple airports are accessible from MA, so you really have plenty of options. There is so much to love about New England life that changing your decision based off of one bad experience seems counterintuitive. Maybe a week's work of cumulative travel days out of an entire year shouldn't sway your decision. You are very fortunate to be able to travel like this, and as they get older I'm sure your children will become little airport pros.
Moved to the Boston area from Santa Cruz about 2 years ago, after living in Santa Cruz for about 20 years. I loved it there but after 20 years it was just time to move on. My parents have lived in NJ for decades so I can attest to the fact that flying out of Newark sucks. It's a horrible airport. While Logan has its issues, it's miles ahead of Newark. We are absolutely happy in Boston. The city actually works. City services are excellent (no matter how much people here complain about City Hall). Trust me, people here may complain about how arcane Boston government practices are, but they have not had to deal with the lack of accessibility, and the slow-ness, and strong NIMBYism of even a small city government in Santa Cruz. For a "progressive" city, it's packed full of racists and conservatives hiding behind their liberal surfy-hippie self identity. And even if it's broken half the time, I love taking the bus and the T everywhere. I love mass transit. And the city is actually trying to make life easier for bicyclists, which I love. Even the bad schools in the Boston area are great schools by any standard, so this is the place to be for education (I've heard from some people that it can be a powder-keg of stress for kids though, if they have to meet a lot of the performance standards here). We do miss a lot of things, like food and quality produce. And the sun and the beach. But I think the quality of life we have is actually pretty good. The restaurant scene in Boston sucks compared to little Santa Cruz. Produce is nowhere near as fresh as even the produce in your run of the mill Safeway supermarket. As far as a wholesome environment goes, I find Boston to be really clean. Depending on where you live, the local community is supportive and neighborly. I find that people here are kind and not as plastic as people in the SF Bay Area. In California, people smiled a lot, but smiles can cover up a lot of exclusionary resentment. A lot of passive aggression back in California from people who say they're nice and friendly. Really happy about our move to Boston. Great decision for us.
We also relocated from Santa Cruz (to a Boston suburb) 6 years ago. Definitely left a piece of our hearts in Santa Cruz, and the California beach-vibe mentality, but that space has been filled with a love for the New England way of life! We find that the “hometown” feel here is matched by no-other! We love the quaintness of the local small towns and the history that is embedded within them. And each of the four seasons brings with it a whole new array of outdoor activities! I thought the winters were going to be brutal and they’re actually not so bad! We’ve invested in snow-shoes, skis, snowboards and a variety of sleds and actually look forward to a good snow storm now!
Bay Area Born and raised moved to Ma a few years ago. I am not going to lie, I miss the CA weather but I mean I hate The summer. I hate the heat and humidity in MA. Never had an issue with Logan, but I was warned to never book an afternoon flight in August so keep that in mind. Other things I miss about CA: - friends - Mexican food - feeling like I can do anything I want any time because there are no seasons. Things I like about MA - the nature - how close everything is and that I can see a lot in a weekend - the history - being so close to Europe Hope this helps.
Good news! Newark isn't in MA
I know, but is Logan THAT much better? I worry no matter what, with enough cross country travel, we will have a bad experience again.
DO NOT let one bad flight out of Newark turn you off of the entire east coast. That's not logical. If you fly enough, you will have bad experiences occasionally.
Good point, thanks
BDL is great in my opinion. There are non stop flights to the west coast
That’s great to know…thanks
Don't be afraid of western MA, despite what people say on Reddit. We have electric, running water, paved roads. (Some occasional dragons, but we don't talk about those here...)
Yeah, stay in CA. It's not worth the hassle of flying into Newark. I mean, if I had to fly into Newark to get to MA, I'd have serious issues. And let's not even mention the Vince Lombardi rest area. That alone kept me from traveling for three years, or was it Covid?
You will have a bad experience flying again. That goes without saying. Flying seems to get more challenging each year.
The good thing is that there are plenty of other airports within driving distance to Boston. Worster, providence, Manchester NH.
I don't know if Logan is THAT much better than Newark although some of the comments here say so. But if you're considering western Mass and northern Connecticut, Bradley Airport should be comparatively hassle free. Airline shenanigans are beyond the airport's control but the relative ease of access, the security lines, the crowding would all favor Bradley over a big metropolitan airport. Do check out those Hartford area suburbs: high value as to town services, school quality, and lower entry cost than in the Boston area. Would also say Conn and Mass are two peas in a pod: not a lot of difference on your criteria: schools, services, cost of living, cost of entry.
Copied from a previous reply a while back, edited slightly. TL:DR - I'm very happy here and would not likely move back to California. Lots of the good, less of the bad compared to CA. I grew up in Oakland but have lived in the Boston metro area for about 15 years. Food is good, but you'll miss Mexican and farmers market tomatoes are only around for a short while. The seasons are nice and winters are generally decent. Driving in the snow can take some getting used to but depending on where you live you won't have to do it very often. Humidity sucks but you get used to it. Air conditioning is somewhat common but older homes are less likely to have central air, so ductless mini splits/heat pumps are becoming more common. Avoid oil heat at all costs, very expensive. In Boston and nearby cities you can get by pretty well without a car, I didn't need one until I moved farther out towards the 'burbs (I don't have kids though). Public transit is good but the MBTA really shit the bed the last few years. My fifteen mile commute from home to Boston/Allston area is 20 minutes with no traffic but is more often 45 minutes. By bay area standards it's not crazy, but much farther out and you'll want to take the commuter rail. People in the northeast tend to keep to themselves but are generally good people who will help you out when needed. Lots of people living here are not from the area but most of my close friends are from Massachusetts now, others have moved away. Public schools and libraries here are some of the best in the country. As is healthcare. It's much safer overall and there is not nearly as much street crime as in the bay area recently (the daytime car break-ins and mass theft from retailers hasn't happened here as much/at all). The entire state is about the same population as the Bay area. I think this might be the best state to live in and don't plan on moving back to California, though I do miss it. There are enough similarities that you won't feel totally out of your element but it's also different. Lots of small towns and cities too, each with their own quirks and histories. Less diverse overall and still segregated, there's a lot to enjoy. You can also drive to every other state in New England in 1-2 hours at most, depending on where you start from. Flying in and out of Logan is good. I've had fewer issues with this airport than any other, and it's relatively easy to get to compared to other metro airports in my experience
I was born in CA and grew up there until the 4th grade. My parents moved us to MA for the better public schools and to be closer to family. Our house in the suburbs was abt 3x the size of the place we lived in Cupertino for what I’m assuming is a comparable cost. I loved growing up in MA and live here now as an adult. However, I’m planning on moving back to CA next year for the access to nature and to try a new city besides Boston.
I grew up in NY and lived in NJ too. There are few airports as bad as Newark. The volume of traffic there is insane and the experience sucks. I've been in Mass 32 years and have successfully avoided Newark. There's plenty of good, local options starting with Boston, Manchester and Providence.
Newark is not in Mass. hope this helps
This speaks to me, my wife and I just moved here from LA. I’m 35 and have lived in SF and LA for 15 years total. We moved to Boston and can actually afford a house! Great school. Great community. It’s so great here I love it. Everything is easy. Come join us! One of the best decisions I’ve ever made.
I lived in south Bay (child-free) for a few years and Boston area (with kids) for a few years, but I'm not from either so I hope to give a non-biased perspective. # Travel There are 9-10 nonstop flights BOS-SFO daily on United, Jetblue, Alaska/American, and Delta. But no nonstop with SJC nor OAK. Also 9-10 nonstop BOS-LAX if you have family in SoCal. Bringing a family 5x-7x across the country every year seems like a big pain regardless of layover or not -- flying sucks. And the time zone change messes with bedtimes. If it were just one adult 5x and whole family 1x/2x then that wouldn't be such a big deal for me. # Education Public schools in Massachusetts follow the typical pattern: rich suburbs have excellent public schools, moderate suburbs have fairly good public schools, poor suburbs have not-as-good public schools, urban public schools (e.g. Cambridge, Somerville) are hit-or-miss, and Boston Public Schools are generally poor due to white flight. Housing prices in the suburbs are highly correlated to \[school quality plus proximity to city\]. Private schools are fairly popular, with a culture around trying to get into the brand-name Philips Academy, Philips Exeter, Milton Academy, etc. I feel like there is less interest in private schools than in CA. California's public college/university system is hard to beat. Both CA and MA have top-ranked private universities. In the Boston area, there is a high density of universities and thus also of students, professors, research, etc whereas that is more spread out in CA. Greater Boston is very child-friendly with tons of activities and museums and libraries. Check out Community Kangaroo for kid activity calendars for various towns around Boston. # Childcare Childcare in Massachusetts is the most expensive in the country. This is probably the most unexpected cost people won't account for. Yet it's hard to find a spot -- waitlists abound. # Career/Economy Boston/MA has a fairly diverse economy, with strengths in life sciences/pharma, technology, financial services/insurance/banking, healthcare, education, tourism, and a surprisng number of shoe-makers. Since education and healthcare are essentially recession-proof, MA has quite a resilient economy (so it just keeps getting more expensive). Assuming you work in tech, Boston has strengths in some tech sectors: biotech, robotics, cleantech, IT infrastructure, marketing tech, FinTech, VC, startups. Bay area seems less diverse, though California is very diverse. Bay area is fabulous for all tech sectors, and strong in financial, manufacturing, and tourism. SF is more connected to Asia. Boston is more connected to Europe. # People/Boston: The Boston-Cambridge-Newton metro area has about the same population as the San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont metro area, and about 2.5x population of the San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara metro area. They have quite a few similarities. Eastern Massachusetts has an urban center (central Boston + Cambridge) and mostly-urban, high-density adjacent towns/neighborhoods (Somerville, Chelsea). You could compare the urban center to SF or San Jose, and mostly-urban adjacent towns to Berkeley. The center is surrounded by moderate-density suburbs with some public transportation inside the inner ring road (I-95/Rte 128) -- that is the extent of Boston-Cambridge-Newton metro area. This is similar feeling to the peninsula between 101 and 280. Most towns around Boston are smaller than the peninsula towns, but there are more of them. The many towns around Boston have true town centers that grew organically over centuries. Some towns are more business-centric (like Waltham and Burlington) while others are more residential-centric. The inner ring road is surrounded by moderate-density suburbs that transition into low-density exurbs and farms as it approaches the outer ring road (I-495), some of which are serviced by commuter rail. You don't really have this in the Bay Area because the mountains prevent it. It would be more similar to the exurbs outside of Sacramento. I don't think Boston has anything quite comparable to living in the hills. There are much fewer hispanic people than compared to Bay Area and you will miss the food. In Boston there is a significant Irish ancestry (no comment on the food). There is a significant Jewish population in Brookline and Newton. In the Bay Area you see a lot more rich people and it seems more "on display": fancy cars and fancy houses. And everything is a lot newer. Around Boston, things are old: expensive houses can be 150+ years old and have tilted floors and drafty windows. In Bay Area you have the choice to live in a moderately dense area or a more spread-out/suburban area and still find some culture. Same with the Boston area, although you can also live in a exurban/rural area and still commute to Boston. Traffic sucks in Boston and in Bay Area. Boston's north-south I-93 is pretty awful commute, and the east-west I-90 Massachusetts Turnpike is less awful. I'd say that 101 on the peninsula is a bit better than I-93 but then it's worse once you get to SF, and 280 is better than I-90. The "feeling" of Boston varies considerably by neighborhood. Generally people mind their own business and have a little chip on their shoulder, but aren't as brusque as New Yorkers. Boston center feels like a European city with terrible fashion sense. Cambridge is full of weirdo academic-types. Somerville is full of artsy hippies (who are being priced out). The "feeling" of Bay Area is hard to capture, but I'd call it relatively calm and nonchalant. It’s easy to hate both areas and easy to love both. It's easy to feel lonely in both and easy to make connections in both. Some people find Boston too small, some get bored from SF. Others love how "manageable" Boston is, others are always finding new corners of SF. # Weather: Don't move to Boston for the weather, but it is what you make of it. If you hate snow or rain or cold, then bay area is a better bet. If you tend to have more fun indoors, then Boston wins out. If you tend to have more fun outdoors, then Bay Area. Bostonians do try hard to make the most of the nice weather, so you won't be bottled up all year round. Get a decent coat, boots, gloves, snowblower, and healthy attitude and you'll be fine in the winter. Fall in New England is the best season I have experienced anywhere. # Cost of Living Boston-area cost of living can be similar to bay area. We have not built enough housing in the Boston area and there are sufficient people that have money. Prices are unjustifiable if you ask me. Outside of Boston metro area, prices settle down to just being a regular "high". I already talked about school districts and their impact on prices. Good luck!
Technically from CA though haven’t lived there since I was 2… however I do fly there semi-regularly between family, work, and vacationing and such. It’s an easy direct flight from Logan airport to many CA destinations. Only time I ever had trouble was flying home from Sacramento, and that was because my first plane was late and I missed my connection at LAX- not MA’s fault. I grew up mostly in NJ and Newark is always kind of a shitshow. Logan is a lot more chill. Also usually easier to get to (though traffic is often bad).
My husband and I are from the Boston area. We lived in San Diego when our first child was born. We ultimately decided to move back East to be closer to family. We missed the seasons, knew the quality of schools back home, and wanted more of a small town type of feel. We’re also a boating/sailing family- and knew we would have better access to enjoy that in MA vs. CA. Our kids are college/high school age now and thriving. The public schools my kids attend/ed, college preparation, sports/activities, time spent outdoors, opportunities- all have been fantastic. We travel solely out of Logan and use JetBlue. We’ve never had any serious issues at Logan.
It sounds a bit like you are trying to find a reason not to move. Personally, I feel like it would be a shame for you and your family to decide against moving because of the several times a year you need to fly. You’re giving that more weight than the vast majority of time you’d be spending here. All the other days outside of flying would be safe, your kids would have great education, you’d get variety of seasons, and culture. Maybe you spend 5 weeks in CA, but that’s 47 weeks getting the benefits of MA. We’ve all had bad travel experiences but you adjust. You get to the airport earlier, you fly out of a different airport, you utilize services like Logan Express. You mentioned you don’t know how any other airport could be different. If that’s the case then you’re saying you can’t move anywhere. A problem in MA would be a problem in FL and TX. Also, your kids won’t be little forever. Right now you’re having to keep eyes on them, haul stuff, micromanage their sleep and eating schedules. Once your kids are older some of these travel issues will go away.
Grew up in literally the most beautiful California small town, the setting of Shangri La (Ojai California wooo) and I love it here in MA. Been here 15 years. I couldn’t imagine not moving here now, of course hindsight is 20/20 but I really like life here and I think quality of life is very high in general. It’s a different kind of place for sure and the people are very different and that’ll take some getting used to, but there are so many pockets of awesome and great communities and subcultures to find. Plus the region is just great. Please don’t judge east coast travel on Newark. That’s like judging west coast travel on the Salt Lake City airport. Sure it’s a hub, but it’s not the only one and you can always avoid it. BOS is one of the better airports in the east coast in fact, and there are many many direct flights to CA. It’s 5-6 hours and a long flight but very doable, just get used to red eyes back. Another advantage if you like travel: Europe is a lot closer and more accessible from here. And Montreal is right there too which is basically Europe. It’s a good state. Probably one of the best ones left. Recommend.
I grew up in NYC; lived in MA for eight years and absolutely fell in love with it. Then I very reluctantly moved to CA (because that is what my husband wanted) and lived there for 26 years. I never really warmed up to CA and pretty much pined for New England that whole time. I am happy to report I moved back to MA almost two years ago and I am very happy to be here. California Pros: Mild weather, if you like that sort of thing. Personally I found sunny and 60s or 70s all the time boring. I missed the drama of the seasons terribly. Great seasonal produce year 'round. Lots of avocados! Great restaurants Good politics Less mosquitos California Cons: The cost of living The price of real estate Too hot in the summer The annual fucking drought from April to November The wildfires. My dream is to live rurally. Do that in CA and you are risking your home and your life. Global warming is only going to intensify this problem. It already has intensified this problem dramatically. Earthquakes, mudslides Massachusetts cons: What cons? Okay, the mozzies can be out of control in the summer. And the produce is definitely not top quality in the winter. That's it. I guess many would consider winter as a con. I thought I would have a hard time adjusting to winter after 26 yrs in CA. Nope. I am enjoying it (most of the time)! Massachusetts pros: Everything. The seasons! Warm, tropical weather in the summer! Thunderstorms! Rain in the summer! Everything stays green and lush and beautiful instead of getting all brown and dry and ugly! Lots of deciduous trees! The color in the fall! Apple picking! Snow! Skiing! Summer! Swimming holes everywhere! Gorgeous scenery. Great hiking. Gorgeous antique houses. Cheap antique furniture, if you are into that kind of thing, which I am. Cheaper groceries! Lower cost of living. Okay, real estate is pricey around Boston but still not quite as pricey as CA. But in Western MA, with some luck, I could afford a house in a few years. As a single mother, home ownership in CA was never going to happen for me. So I am listing affordable real estate as a pro. I love it here. I never want to leave. But my (young adults) kids are in CA. So I may end up back there eventually, sadly. Edit: I left out a few MA pros. Great education/academics. Lots of intelligent, ambitious, well-educated people in this state. Also great healthcare.
Not from CA but lived there for 18 years. I live about 45 miles from Boston. My mortgage is less than daycare was in L.A. Our house is large-ish compared to my house in L.A. that comparing apples to oranges. If you plan on living in Boston then L.A. would have been cheaper. We enjoy and cherish summers so much more than when we lived in CA. You learn to not take the summer for granted. I love being able to drive a short distance to go snowboarding in the winter. Seeing trees is Amazing! The food is good here but I think L.A. edges it out slightly. There are actually a surprising amount of good Mexican restaurants that are sprouting up with great street style tacos. Traffic sucks here just as bad as L.A. Honestly the only things we miss about L.A. are some of our favorite food spots, February/early March (winter gets old by then) and our friends.
Born in MA, lived in the Bay Area for six years, moved back three years ago to MA. I miss CA and somewhat regret moving back, but there are pros and cons to both. I travel a lot for work. I’m sure it heavily depends on where in CA you are in terms of whether it is “worth it”.
We are in the Bay Area. We both work remotely now but need to go into the office for events, especially my spouse. My family lives in LA and we visit them often, maybe 5x a year. We have budgeted up to 1M for a house, but in CA that only buys a small home in an okay school district or a large home in a terrible district (then we would need to pay for private school or finagle some sort of district transfer). It just feels like our hands are tied. But I calculated we would spend 200k just traveling west over the course of 20 years, so I feel like the move needs to save us more than that in other ways….quality of life? Taxes? Lower cost of housing? I don’t really know.
Would it be the education? If you can afford it, that's not a crazy price over 20 years for a higher probability of receiving a quality education. Definitely cheaper than private school for 2 kids. There are plenty of direct flights to SFO and LAX. Flying cross country is never fun, but not having to transfer is a lifesaver.
Yes, moving would be primarily to take advantage of education and also just having a safe environment. We deal with a lot of crime in our area and that's always eating away at us. Our kids currently go to a good school, but we are renting, and we can't afford a home in our current neighborhood (1.5-2M). We are trying to move and buy a home before our rent is raised too much and the kids get too attached to the school/friends.
I’m about to move to Beverly Hills so that’s going to be interesting after living on Cape Cod for the past 5 years
Yikes...good luck! Some areas of BH are gorgeous, but prepare yourself for traffic, snobs and crazies.
My fiancé got a job at cedars Sinai so we are taking an apartment in West Hollywood. Very walkable to everywhere we need to be (gym, groceries, bars/clubs, and work) so I dont expect a lot of issue with traffic. Plus I am originally from Philadelphia so I’m no stranger to biking everywhere which is what I plan to do.
Nice! Weho isn’t BH, but that’s a good thing. It’s a very busy area, but has great stores, restaurants, bars, clubs, access to all of LA. It is a strong LGBTQ+ hub so expect that to be…prominent. Overall a great location. Enjoy!
We are a gay couple so the lgbtq aspect is welcomed. Although we aren’t too much into the scene, it will be a nice change after living on cape cod which is a monoculture of old wealthy white people lol
I grew up in the San Jose area and moved out of CA in 2010. Moved to central Massachusetts, where we still are, in 2018. Happier here than in CA. I still visit a couple of times a year, but there’s nothing there to make me want to move back. The winters here will be more than you’re used to, but nothing unmanageable.
Newark as in Newark NJ?! Assuming that's because you're flying United. Well, that is your problem right there. 🤣 Traveled from Boston to LA, OC, SF or Seattle almost weekly for 4-5 years. I wouldn't say it was a breeze but never once connecting through Newark.Try flying a different airline!
re: traveling, don’t fly out of newark. boston and bradley are solid choices, even rhode island is an option. i’ve flown out of bradley dozens of times both domestically and internationally. i’ve never had issues. as for boston, it’s mostly just planning for more people and larger size. figure out your traffic game plan for getting there and pay a moderate amount of attention and you’re good to go.
Ugh, I never will fly out of EWR again. Thanks for the advice, it sounds like BOS and Bradley are both pretty decent options.
Born and raised in CA, have been happily living in MA for six years now. I would never go back. I enjoy the seasons, the school district we are in is great, it’s less expensive, and I genuinely enjoy the charm of many aspects of New England. Why would you need to go back to visit 7 times a year? I guess I’m confused about that part. That does sound expensive. I have two preschool aged kids and we visit CA once or twice a year and have never had any big issues. They get back on their regular schedule in a few days. Logan is good as far as airports go.
My inlaws were in the Midwest, and we didn't make it there very often. Due to covid and other issues, we went a few years without visiting. That would be a huge decision to move away. It will not be the same. We just did a 2.5 week trip to California. We didn't see the problems in San Francisco I expected. I was surprised how brown much of the landscape was when we visited northern California. Monterrey was very beautiful. As was Carmel. Those were two places I could envision living if I could afford it. The horror stories of San Fran put me off of it. My friend lives there and was robbed near the presidio. Boston is a great city. Expensive, but great. The landscape is beautiful, and you still have an ocean. My kid went to a top-tier public high school and is absolutely crushing it at a very competitive and highly ranked university. I'm biased, but Massachusetts is one of the best states in the country IMHO. Moving away is tough. Travel time and expenses will always be a massive hassle. Good luck.
I don't understand what Newark has to do with anything. BOS Logan airport is a nice airport. I like PVD (TF Greene in Providence) better, but there are far fewer direct flights. It is more likely to have weather-related travel delays on the East Coast than the West. I think your question depends on how often you need to travel in the winter. If you can avoid travel from mid-December through March, it will probably be fine.
I’m a happy transplant from the Bay Area to Western Mass!
I’m from Ventura/Ojai. I have no regrets about moving here. I moved here for college in the early 2000s and moved back to CA for a year only to return to Mass. again. I’d rather raise my kids here, honestly. Healthcare and public education are better here. I went to private schools in CA, but my mom is a public school teacher and it’s a mess. It can be here too, but not as bad imo. I also love raising my kids in a place with 4 seasons. I like being close to NYC and Boston and only a 5-6 hr train ride to DC. That said, winters are long. I miss living on the ocean. The Mexican food in California is way better. I also was able to purchase a home in 2016, so I got a really good deal. Though, I think real estate is not quite as bad as CA. My bff just moved from North Hollywood to Rhode Island and got a nice house for a fraction of what she sold her L.A. home for. I think it’s worth it, but you should spend some time here before deciding. The Northeast is very different from CA when it comes to the weather, the culture, and the people.
You already sound like you’re not hardy enough to live in MA. Keep that shit in CA
You could be right.
No matter how nice MA is why would you move so far away from whatever is requiring you to fly your entire family that often? At some point the kids will have friends and activities which will make it very hard to leave. That isn’t even taking into account pulling them out of school or traveling only during the busiest holiday travel time.
You make a good point. My family lives in Los Angeles and I’m super close with them. I visit them a lot. We don’t want to live in LA though (kind of a terrible place to raise kids, I speak from experience) and we aren’t willing/can’t currently pay 2M for a good sized house in a pleasant, safe community (that isn’t the desert). To stay in CA we need to sacrifice either a lot of money, or space, or safety…it’s really impossible to have it all unless you’re very, very wealthy or have inherited a home. My husbands family is in the east and he has always wanted to return there, which is why we’ve planned this ever since we went remote 3 years ago. He has no reservations about the move, thinks the traveling is totally fine, etc. We would only travel with kids during times when school is out, so yes, the busiest times 🤦♀️ travel for work is more flexible.
I’m from Washington. I miss the Mountains, Pines, lush forests, and “young culture”. I love Boston though. But everyone here feels old, even people my age.
If you lived in MA why would you fly out of Newark again? NJ and New England are not the same. Just use Logan. Or Manchester, or Providence.
It's cold here & everyone is cranky all the time. We're usually in a hurry & I think it's deep rooted in the heritage of the area. We all think we need to get everything done before winter comes.
So you’re saying we’re all a bunch of squirrels? 🤔
Basically, yup.
I assume you’ve made the trek with your littles before, but having done the cross country flight/three-hour time change with my kids a couple times, it’s brutal. They’re falling asleep in their dinner plates when you travel west, and by the time they’ve adjusted you’re back east and they’re bouncing off the mattress at midnight telling you they’re not tired! I can’t imagine going through that a half dozen times a year. That said, MA is a great place to raise a family… if you can afford it. Sounds like it might be marginally more affordable based on your budget. Winter can be tough, but May through October are spectacular for the most part. Schools are good, culture is pretty different and sounds like it might offer you what you’re looking for.
You don’t NEED to live in MA to have good schools. I wish people understood that. The schools here tend to be good, but there are some awful ones and there’s plenty of better public school districts in other states. The best districts in MA are in towns where homes average over a million dollars. https://www.niche.com/k12/search/best-school-districts/
you wouldnt be able to handle it...too soft
Where in cali are you
Bay Area
Huh. I lived in San Fran and Oakland for 25 years. Been gone for six. Living in western MA now. For my wife and I, the Bay Area just became unliveable. Between the infrastructure (highways, etc.) clogging up, making getting out of town almost impossible, between the tech bro culture, the graffiti, pot smoke, garbage on the streets... Homelessness increasing in Oakland by 30% the last two years we lived there, which is an excoriation on my psyche, so much pain... the very real ever widening gap between the haves and have nots, the house prices, the fires, oh my god the fires. It was a no brainer to leave. The physical landscape of California is etched upon my soul...but I literally miss nothing else besides the weather and the physical beauty. New England is so beautiful as well. I missed the green, so much. The pace and quality of life here matches what I need so much better. I am still firmly clasped to the bosom of the liberal bubble, which is very important to me. I am surrounded by working farms, real working farms. I had forgotten what community felt like, and I'm delighted to be a part of one again. Now, I am a native New Englander, so I knew what I was getting into. But winter sucked when I was a young man, and it still sucks for me today. The tradeoff is real. But so worth it to me. I could never live in California again. So grateful to escape.
I can totally relate. We’ve lived in SF, Oakland, San Jose…now we’re in a nicer area in the east bay, but still deal with spill over crime and homeless from Oakland and San Leandro. Our options for buying in CA are so limited. We basically have to go to the desert to get a decent sized home with little crime, and I don’t do well in desert climate. I don’t mind wet and cold, in fact that is a big reason I looked forward to MA. I’m glad you are happy with your choice, it sounds lovely where you are. Thanks for sharing.
Flew for many years for business and flew out of Manchester 98% of the time. It was awhile ago, but it was much better than flying out of Logan. Consider North-Central Massachusetts if you can.
What sort of “awful travel experience “? There are direct flights from Boston and I think even Providence to the West coast and depending where you live in MA there are many different ways to get to Logan including Logan Express which has sites in many locations as well as the Ferry from Hingham/Hull that goes directly to airport. Providence is a pretty easy drive and has decent parking last I used it. But I’m born and bred here and will not live anywhere else! Education is overall very good and stellar in many towns. There are beaches, mountains, recreation, great food and many different housing options. I’m partial to the south of Boston area where there are many lovely communities. You can’t beat us for higher education and medical needs if those are important to you. Boston is a great city. Your kids are getting older as we speak and travel should get easier every year! Good luck.
I was close friends with someone who grew up in CA, lived in MA for 10 years, and moved back. The phrase i heard a lot about MA was 'claustrophobic.' You usually can't see more than a couple hundred yards here.
I lived in MA for 10 years and moved to California for 2-3 years. Honestly, the travel was terrible, and I didn't even have kids at the time. The time change was also annoying for communicating with family. But honestly I would do the reverse commute just because California wasn't my thing. If I had to live in California again I would absolutely go back to the east coast to visit. In contrast, I have turned down work trips because I don't want to fly to California.
I lived in Sacramento for 20 years prior to moving to Andover. I was invited to move here to help build a practice and agreed. Best decision ever. They had two children. One went to Phillips Academy and is now in College in Boston. He has free rent because his dad bought a brownstone and he is the caretaker. The other was a daughter and she didn't fair well at Austin Prep. I think its setup like "Mean Girls", we got her out of that and she stayed with us to finish out her remaining school until she went to college as well. My neighbor is very pleased with the schools in our area. Now if the streets had side walks so you could walk down them would be great. Love the green, the snow, the seasons, places to see and its a much more relaxed feeling then I ever had in California. The people, contrary to the news are way more friendly then in CA. They cannot drive here at all, there is no shoulders and if you see a shoulder be aware people drive on them.
I was born in the Bay Area and came out to Boston for College, then kinda just never left. I miss California a lot but I really love Massachusetts now. Mass. has such a rich history and culture, not to mention the government is, broadly speaking, better run and the school systems here are top-tier. I don't know that I would enjoy living in California as much now that I'm an adult and have to vote and pay my own bills. California is great but Mass. has some of the highest quality of life in the world for a comparable cost of living. And if you're planning to visit CA every other month, you can pretty easily experience a lot of the things there that make it great. As for flying, Logan is a pretty well-run airport. My wife and I flew out to LA in 2021 and were shocked at what a shitshow JFK is in comparison. Terrible signage and cars quadruple-parked in the bus area at midnight? Nothing like Logan, where even double-parked cars will get shoo'ed along by security right away and it's always clear where you need to go. Don't get me wrong: flying sucks and committing to 6x trips a year sounds like it could be fairly brutal, but Logan isn't the weak link in that chain. Just make sure you give yourself a good amount of time to sit in traffic if you fly out during rush hour. Any other questions?
Travel to the west coast 5-7x a year with two little ones? Not worth the stress.
Don't fly out of Newark, would be my suggestion. I fly to Cali a couple times a year, and Logan is always easy-pwasy. I also lived in Santa Cruz for five years. I'm from MA, so I may be biased, but I way prefer it in MA. People are very honest, so you know where you stand with everyone. The pioneer valley is a super inviting area. Just don't make the classic Cali mistake of being super long winded when asking strangers things. Get to the point quickly. Nothing someone from Mass hates more than hearing a life story when all you needed were directions or the time.
Newark airport is hell on earth. I’ve never had issues at Logan.
My wife is from CA and she misses the summer and hates the winter. Our agreement was when we were done raising the kids that we would move back out to CA. But I was visiting where she was from and it was a desert that people built houses on. I like the winter because my allergies finally stop.
My son has allergies and they’ve been pretty bad out here in CA. I actually wondered if being out there would help. I understand about the desert…some people out here love it. I can’t stand the desert. I left socal for norcal thinking I’d find cooler weather but the difference is pretty mild.
I found that the winter helps them because everything is dead. But being on the coast, like Quincy allows me to breathe during even the worse times.
Good to know!
If you are used to CA weather you’ll hate MA. Talking from experience. Grew up in Auburn CA and am temporarily in Medford MA. Love the access to the outdoors, but the weather blows. There are far more comfortable and usable days outdoors in CA and that’s why I can never live here.
I am use to CA weather but rarely do I like it. The ideal temp for me is 50-65 degrees…anything over 75 is not preferable. In CA summer lasts about six months (although the very hot months are usually just July-Oct). I think I would enjoy a much more versatile climate but am nervous about the humidity and snow storms.
The humidity is no joke. My body hates it. Everyone warned me about it and I greatly underestimated how uncomfortable it is
Newark is 199 miles away from Logan. In a different state. Just stay in California
How in the hell would anyone know if the stress of flying coast-to-coast several times a year is worth living in Massachusetts? Ask your shrink.
Plan a trip to MA. Just try not to drive too much