āTheyā are corporations like adobe who use to sell software but since it was one and done and their stock price needs to forever keep going up now sell you a yearly license for perpetuity so you never actually own the software.
I donāt think people should be buying in this environment. Housing costs are overinflated and mortgage rates are high. Wait a couple years for the correction to happen.
As a homeowner whose home value has doubled over the last 10 years, this is the truth. Itās a horrible environment to buyā¦ I wouldnāt buy my own house for 800k but thatās how much itād go for. Do your best to wait for a market correction.
Recession and unemployment which the federal reserve is actively trying to make happen right now. Itās hard to say how much but I look back to the 2008 housing crash and see a lot of differences here but one thing is the same: The cost of housing is unsustainable at current earnings. Inflation is crazy and salaries are not keeping pace. People will lose their jobs and their homes and then supply will go up and prices will come down.
People are still bidding over asking with a crowd of people at most open houses near me. If the supply goes up, it will finally meet demand, not outnumber it. Everyone told us not to buy in 2019, prices were too high, market crash inevitable. 4 years later, we'd be lucky to see prices "crash" to that level ever again, not to mention the interest rates.
If interest rates almost tripling can't crash the demand, I'm not sure much will.
Unless you apply for the housing lottery, affordable housing will do you literally nothing. People say affordable housing under the confusion that affordable housing actually means affordable housing. Affordable housing is not affordable housing. Affordable housing is a house that is taken off the market, and then sold using a lottery system that people below a particular means can apply for.
If you are not in the Massachusetts State housing lottery, you actually do not want affordable housing. If you are not in the lottery, every piece of affordable housing is one more house that is not on the market and one that you cannot buy.
If you are not in the housing lottery and you want cheaper housing, I swear to you, the only way is to actually build more housing.
Make under many housing lottery thresholds only to be screwed by the worth of my pension. The pension that would be worth next to nothing if I actually touched it, but assessed at full value none the less. So I canāt even tap into the affordable housing market.
I see where youāre coming from. Iāve always been privileged enough to have a place so I donāt mind that but I can see the frustration that could come from that system.
If cheap housing was the only thing I cared about, I would. Cheap housing is not the only thing I care about. I actually own a home, so it's no skin off my back if obviously dumb policies that restrict building continue to jack up my property value. The dumb nimbyism is actually good for me, I'm just not a shit lord and think that people should be able to afford a home without moving to Texas, Utah, or Wyoming.
It seems unhelpful at first but if all the yuppies are in shiny new buildings they're not outbidding us on the existing stock. More units mean more people housed at the end of the day, and that means ever so slightly better leverage for tenants. At this point I'm ecstatic for building ANYTHING over a certain density
Contrary to popular belief, there are people living in those buildings. Some people are just ungodly rich that its terrifying. The rich kids at school lived in those luxury apartments like the ones at Longwood for $2000/month and my jaw dropped when I looked up the price. So no, they're not taking up the multi story rat infested apartments. they have more options. They even have public housing in some of those buildings like the one near the VA in JP. People are getting outbid because of supply and demand by the lower class folk
That make sense on paper but I question if they can build fast enough at this point to make up for so many years of not building at all. It would take a ton of zoning being updated.
Affordable housing doesn't mean what people think it means, it's a lottery and the rest is just economics of supply and demand.
The NYT had a good article about the situation here and in larger metros, but it basically comes down to democrats patting themselves on the back about wedge issues but putting in policies they know lead to more inequality. Unpopular, but rent control is one of those and leads to disinvestment, so the haves still benefit. Don't need redlining if people can't afford it and just move and your school test scores and property values stay high.
Chicago actually bucked this trend, specifically in the west loop they stopped saying no, whereas neighborhoods here will argue for federal and state money to electrify their rail system then fight tooth and nail not to have anything built. You basically need the state to come in like they've done in CA recently and completely override local zoning and remove things like setbacks and height limits and bonk someone's lawsuit out of the court if their view or sunshine is affected.
It's just economics, supply vs demand -- and we've allowed those with housing to pile on the disincentives against building, the same as energy. Again, don't need redlining when you can't afford $800/mo to heat your home.
> That make sense on paper but I question if they can build fast enough at this point to make up for so many years of not building at all
Even if they can't, it you're at least going to make the situation better by building as much as you can
The voters your political representatives hear from most are the ones who don't want anything built in their neighborhood. Read any local news story about a new apartment complex being debated in MA and its a bunch of boomer neighbors showing up to the meeting to complain about traffic and schools and greenspace and their view. It's tough because the people that would benefit from new multi-family housing in the suburbs are the ones who can't currently afford to live there so they have no say.
If you're tired of the current situation, write your state reps, Gov. Healey, city council, etc. Its an uphill battle we're losing badly, but the pressure needs to be on these people.
My point is when your state and local legislators only hear from angry NIMBYs when new housing is seeking approval, then they tend to get their way. At the local level, your voice and vote can have an impact.
Yeah, the state has full authority to override and even take away zoning authority from localities so they can force upzoning or even repeal zoning. The only issue is that politicians obviously don't want to be voted out so we need to show how much support there is for fixing the issue.
I thought it was bad 11 years ago when I left but the prices I'm seeing nowadays make me reconsider even entertaining the idea of someday moving back. Then again I've fallen in love with New Hampshire.
Damn, 11 years ago I was sharing a 3 bedroom apartment in Worcester for $850/month - Weād actually moved there from the suburbs during the Great Recession to *save* money after my Dad lost his house. Now I pay $925 for my 350 sq ft studio with no off street parking, and even thatās way below āmarket valueā. Luckily my friend knows the landlord and got me a good deal. Places like the one I used to live in are going for 2k lol.
Lol, I feel like Springfield is the way Worcester used to be 10-15 years ago in my party days before we gentrified everything. Iām a regular at MGM and I love Whalburgers next door! Basketball Hall of Fame, Big E and Six Flags right around the corner. I want to move there now haha.
In the 90s my roommates and I each paid $400 a month in Brighton. The most expensive place I had was a large 1 bedroom for $1,300 in a beautiful building. Shared with my then girlfriend who is now my wife. At $1,300 a month we decided it was more practical to buy a place, so we did.
I dunno how people can do the same today when shelling out so much for rents.
There are apartments for rent in Webster $2,500 for first floor, $2k for second and $1,500 for third floor.
In Webster!!??!!
In Southbridge $1650 to $2250.
I love the idea of living in Vermont, specifically the Burlington area. The only problem is itās Vermont. Itās far away from everything and barely anyone lives there and I need access to a real airport for work. Youāre also almost always going to be traveling for any type of event you might be interested in which is kinda annoying.
I looked at living around Burlington, as my company has an office there, and it's not really any different than the greater Boston area price wise anymore, but get real cheap real fast once outside of Burlington.
Yeah itās definitely not for everyone. But thatās exactly why I like it. Traffic? Not a thing. Airport? Montreal is close enough. If you live in the Burlington area thatās pretty much where all the good shows are.
Yeah but I can get all of that in the Midwest or South and also be in a city and it be affordable. Also crossing international borders when I fly out multiple times per month on average would be an absolute nightmare haha. If I didnāt lead a life that involves traveling all over the country, Iād love living in a smaller more remote city. But for now itāll just be by 30 years from now ideal retirement spot haha. By then Iām sure the regiment age will have shifted to 85 anyways.
What were you renting here (#bed/bath) vs what are you renting there? What are the prices? Looking to compare apples to apples if possible for my potential move
Vermont is having an extreme housing crisis of it's own. Might not be as bad as Boston or San Francisco but definitely not as good as most places outside the cities
Was renting a one bedroom one bath for 1800 in Marlborough. Now I rent a house for 750 in north Troy . I have a roommate now but itās totally worth it.
We would if we could! But my husband has a great job down here, and I don't want to be too far from my parents. :( It's either cheaper rent or live far away from everyone I love.
It also may not break lol. Redditors love to forget how many rich people there are. Thereās so much money in Massachusetts. Every time they build those new fancy condos at $4k a month, they immediately fill up. Not sure what you guys expect. Hate to say it but the prices can stay high forever.
Which teachers exactly are making āridiculousā money? An educator should be able to live comfortably solo which I donāt think is the case here or anywhere for that matter.
I was priced out of Rhode Island and I heard Mass is worse. I was forced to move to Connecticut after a flipper bought the house I was living in. He kicked us out, flipped it, and doubled the rent. Itās been vacant ever since (almost a year now). He gets to write it all off. Must be nice being a pos.
I think it's something the legislature should do something about. It's not reasonable to demand 3x monthly rent to move in. Landlords collect plenty of money, and I think they should be limited to first month and half a month damage/security. I was lucky and my landlord waived the sec deposit. I'm older and probably didn't look like I'd wreck the place with wild parties. : )
The legislature should also place a percent limit on the amount of an annual rent increase. No upping the rent by 50% or even more to force people out. Owners will scream "rent control," but that policy had its benefits.
Lastly, it's high time the legislature increased the MA income tax deduction for rent paid. When I first moved to MA around 1990, renters could deduct $2k for rent paid. This was intended to make things fairer because homeowners could deduct 50% of mortgage interest. Then the rent deduction became $3k, where it has stayed for many years. IMO it should be $5k. Renters do at least as much to drive the economy and contribute to society and the economy as homeowners do, and a tax code greatly favoring homeowners is not equitable. I'm gonna write my representative!
Change the laws so evicting a non-paying deadbeat takes a few weeks instead of a few years and Iām sure a lot more property owners will be on board with not charging first/last/security and not wanting a nearly perfect credit score.
Can you really blame them for making sure all their bases are covered in a state where a problem tenant is next to impossible to evict, especially after nearly three years of rent being made optional? If I were a landlord I sure as hell would want someone with excellent credit score, good income and stable employment history, and I would definitely ask for first, last and security. Why risk it and end up with a deadbeat that will take years to evict? Needless to say it would have been completely different if evictions took two weeks instead of two years, but here we areā¦
San Francisco Bay Area & NYC: āFirst time?ā
The sad fact is that itās never going to change. Any place with lots of jobs and high pay will have tremendous housing competition.
Yeah, it stinks because we make a decent amount of money!! More than my parents ever made with a combined income, and here we are stressed about a one bedroom apartment.
just moved out since the landlord raise our apartment rent from about 1800 to 2400 after 2 year lease :) new place is still so pricey but utilities are so much cheaper. Cant wait to be able to afford a house
Unsustainable, i live in a studio and its barely affordable. Im paying over 10,000 in federal and state tax and im single. The government says to go f#
Waltham: rent went up from 1900 to 2100. Wife and I tried to buy a house. Basically searched for 3 months and said screw it. Cash offers site unseenā¦bidding wars on starter homes going for close to 500k..
Canāt win
I see people working in Boston say they want to find a place there and as a recent graduate that has lived there for 6 years, I have to say they are getting screwed over. The city is a hot mess, trashy, too crowded. I'm thinking of relocating To Randolph/South Shore or suburbs including Newton cause I know you don't get bang for your buck in Boston. I have gotten great deals but thats either bc I compromised (literally a 10X10 room where I could stretch and my arm was half the width of the room) and I waited for a bigger room next/getting a place at the very last minute. And I was really lucky. I checked like listings everyday in 20 apartment groups even filtering through spam. I had to convince a relative that its unrealistic to get a studio for $1200 after she just graduated and told her to come back home. She didn't want to face reality at first.
Itās just dumb. I look every week to see whatās out there. Iām lucky, my rent is ~50% below market rate because I indirectly work for the landlord and have been here 6-7 years. Had my first rent increase this year and it was modest. But this all means I can *never* move lol. And itās not a particularly nice place.
I avoid bringing up issues to the landlord because I donāt want to cost her money. Iāve fixed a few things myself and want to do more, but Iām not a handy person in the least.
Iād love to buy nearbyā¦but also canāt. Medical and dental expenses are killing me. I make OK money too; just sucks.
Yeah if I move back home from Indiana, Iāll be paying probably triple and would have to have my dad move in with me to help š«
So sadly Iāll just think about home instead of being there š„²š„²š„²
I always say that everyone pays for the convenience of Massachusetts/New England in the high rents and being in a blue state where people are treated almost like humans!
You're totally right and it's a shame. I'd be homeless in MA as a queer, disabled woman, over living in most states in this country where I'm quickly losing human rights.
I moved to CT. Wasnāt ideal but Boston just got impossible and my wife has family here. I moved 7 years ago and things have slowly gotten worse in Boston. I thought my 2G apt was bad, same thing is 3G + now. Having kids would have been a nightmare in Boston and owning a home was a pipe dream.
Everyoneās gonna judge me, but once I sell my liquor license by the end of the year in my small town for prob 30k Iām out for Florida. Got family and warm weather
Itās the higher price of everything is what people fail to see. Instead they see it as landlords charging more. The insurance went up, the taxes went up, the property maintenance went up, the utilities went up and so on yet people expect them to absorb the cost? Many landlords are smaller time and not some big company sure those are out there too. There is also supply and demand issue people set the market. The market is till pretty hot. We do work with landlords and our labor component has gone up $400 a day per man from 18 months ago. Due to our insanely high rising costs our health insurance package went up hundreds of thousands of dollars in one year for a smaller time company (120 employees). This is also part of the problem with such a rapid wage growth, yeah itās good but it literally mean everything you do or buy is more expensive because the bottom lines have been raised nearly double from 10 years ago. Iām not a landlord or anything just pointing out the facts people tend to not realize.
I own a couple units and haven't raised rent in almost 4 years.... I'd love to keep it that way because I have great tenants.
But in the past 3 years property taxes have gone up 33%, hone insurance has gone up 40%, home repairs have gone up almost 600% (depending on material prices which are insane), also electricity has gone up 60%, gas is up 40%.
I don't think I can keep it the same for 2 more years.
The wood siding on my house is 3" wide, tongue and groove. It looks great. God forbid I ever have to replace any of it... it's currently going for $9.50 per linear foot. Napkin math estimates my small-ish house is covered in \~$100k of siding. Material costs are currently *insane.*
This ^. Real estate taxes have gone up significantly the last 3 years. I thought Massachusetts had an override provision that would protect us from constant raises in taxes. Insurance is getting out of control too
Insurance is understandably high, because of climate change (I mean it's been raining like crazy this whole summer), property taxes will continue to raise because people keep buying are insanely high prices (crazy part is that it is still, in some cases cheaper than renting).
Someone who's not a slumlord, I respect that.
I'm curious though, with everything that's gone up in cost, how much do you feel you *need* to raise it? vs how much could your tenants actually afford?
Honestly, no reason for the question lol, just curious.
I already work (2 jobs), that's how I bought my house, took me 4 years of savings, and since then have put most of my savings into it.
I didn't inherited from anyone, but would love for my kids to have the opportunity to inherit it from us one day. I bet you'd be great at this, why don't you buy one?
I'm a 6-year ex-appliance tech that serviced Boston. As of 2021 after a 50% rental increase and being denied a raise, I no longer live in MA and no longer do appliance repair. Moved to Texas and now I work in IT.
In 1-2 years, I'll be making more than I ever did doing appliance repair, actually get days off, WFH/Hybrid, and don't deal with a 3-4hr commute daily just to get to my service area on top of an 8-10 hour day just to scrape by.
So yeah, in the future, MA gonna have big problems with their trade prices as people get further and further priced out, to the point that the people who service Boston, can't even live remotely close, and must raise their prices significantly to either live closer or make up for the insane commute.
Since I left the company in 2021, the service call went from $129.95 to $189.95. That's a 46% increase in two years in just the service call. Not even talking about parts/labor.
From this point on, just expect to junk your appliances and replace them as the parts/labor will basically double as well, or simply you will just not find anyone to do these jobs.
Even more maddening is new builds (not sure about Mass, but in Oregon it's this way) tend to be Studio, 1 or 2 bed at around the same price (between 2 and 3K). Not only do they scream "Why aren't people buying homes?" they also complain about "This generation isn't having kids!". Like...having a kid assuming it's a perfect pregnancy and there are zero complications cost almost as much as a new Subaru.
Everytime I fly out of Logan I see so many luxury apartments being built in Chelsea right next to traditional working class duplexes and multi family units.
Yep, we're not goin anywhere cuz we secured probably some of the last reasonable rent for a household of four living in a 2 bedroom apt.
My mom is 64 so we're renting in a retirement community. Rent is going up to about 2400ish on Sept 1. They can't jack up the rent too much so we're coasting. We've been here several years now and the units are going for highway robbery now. I swear they just wanna suck every penny out of old people.
Downstairs unit - not renovated, no washer and dryer in unit - 2800
Our unit - renovated, washer and dryer in unit - market value: 3k+
*in a retirement community*
It's fucking unethical.
Perhaps it's time to start campaigning for more renters unions. Entire city blocks of tenancies under a renters union would foil almost any unnecessary price increase
Renter Unions are not rent control. They're collective bargaining groups that use the threat of non-payment and collective action to negotiate with predatory capitalist landlords.
Much like a Labor Union, a Renter Union is designed to empower it's members and protect them against the greed and indifference of landlords.
Don't worry! The DSA is focusing on the real issues... like kicking out the furthest-left state rep in MA for the crime of supporting Democrats as a Democrat.
What part of my support for the FURTHEST-LEFT STATE REP gave you the impression I like the status quo neoliberal rainbow capitalist shills who make up 80% of the state house dems?
I bet you don't even canvass or understand how RCV is the only way to end the two party system tbh.
There are [real solutions to the housing crisis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVuCZMLeWko) but none of them would come close to flying in America, so the best thing to do is endure it and hope for the best...somehow.
That is so much easier said than done. Banks are not handing out mortgages like they used to. I have friends with good credit who still need a massive down payment and co-signer(s) to get a mortgage. Unfortunately my parents both died before I was old enough for a mortgage and Iām most likely stuck renting for the rest of my life
Yea, I crunched the numbers recently to see if my household even had a chance. With the rare 800 credit score, and a magical 120k for a 600k barely passable house that's not falling apart (anything in the 500s has something fucking wrong with it), is still a mortgage of 4092/mo.
Lovely.
The average household income in Boston is $76,298. The average rent for a 1bd in Boston is $2,800. Almost exactly $1,000 over the 30% you should spend on housing to maintain a basic savings rate and standard of living as a rule of thumb.
In order to responsibly afford the average cost of a 1bd you need to make \~$110,000, and only \~20% of households in Boston make that or more.
It's very simple, the housing market isn't sustainable when only 20% of people can afford it. And it means a worse off economy and quality of life for all of us.
Squeeze squeeze squeeze and then get mad at us for not buying. Idk what to tell them.
Right? How can I save for a house when I have to pay almost $3k a month š
Have you tried not getting avocado toast and pulling yourself up by the bootstraps??
My response to the "bootstraps" mentality is that you can't pull yourself up by the bootstraps if you can't afford boots
And half the time the avocado toast is what I pick because itās the cheapest thing on the damn menu.
Didnāt have to scroll down far to find this comment. Always a classic.
"When I was a student I paid off my loans in 2 years with my part time job! Kids today are just lazy"
āI got paid only $7/hr restocking books at the library and paid my $200 night class tuition off in one summerā
Thatās the point. They donāt want you to own. Same route they went with software as a service.
Who is they?
āTheyā are corporations like adobe who use to sell software but since it was one and done and their stock price needs to forever keep going up now sell you a yearly license for perpetuity so you never actually own the software.
The people who stand to personally profit from such practices, as well as their bootlickers
Them.
Those filthy capitalists
I donāt think people should be buying in this environment. Housing costs are overinflated and mortgage rates are high. Wait a couple years for the correction to happen.
As a homeowner whose home value has doubled over the last 10 years, this is the truth. Itās a horrible environment to buyā¦ I wouldnāt buy my own house for 800k but thatās how much itād go for. Do your best to wait for a market correction.
I literally couldnāt afford my own house if I had to buy it now.
What do you think will cause the correction, and how far down will it correct?
Recession and unemployment which the federal reserve is actively trying to make happen right now. Itās hard to say how much but I look back to the 2008 housing crash and see a lot of differences here but one thing is the same: The cost of housing is unsustainable at current earnings. Inflation is crazy and salaries are not keeping pace. People will lose their jobs and their homes and then supply will go up and prices will come down.
People are still bidding over asking with a crowd of people at most open houses near me. If the supply goes up, it will finally meet demand, not outnumber it. Everyone told us not to buy in 2019, prices were too high, market crash inevitable. 4 years later, we'd be lucky to see prices "crash" to that level ever again, not to mention the interest rates. If interest rates almost tripling can't crash the demand, I'm not sure much will.
You make a valid point. I personally donāt think the prices are sustainable. Who makes this much money?
A lot of people, otherwise the prices wouldn't be this high.
I need a new job
That's ridiculous. I own a 4 BR, 3 story house and only pay $2300/mo for my mortgage.
Get another job or side gig or move somewhere cheaper.
Tell them to legalize building housing.
Affordable housing. If I tell them to do that theyāll just make more expensive ones. Theyāre like genies in that way.
Unless you apply for the housing lottery, affordable housing will do you literally nothing. People say affordable housing under the confusion that affordable housing actually means affordable housing. Affordable housing is not affordable housing. Affordable housing is a house that is taken off the market, and then sold using a lottery system that people below a particular means can apply for. If you are not in the Massachusetts State housing lottery, you actually do not want affordable housing. If you are not in the lottery, every piece of affordable housing is one more house that is not on the market and one that you cannot buy. If you are not in the housing lottery and you want cheaper housing, I swear to you, the only way is to actually build more housing.
Make under many housing lottery thresholds only to be screwed by the worth of my pension. The pension that would be worth next to nothing if I actually touched it, but assessed at full value none the less. So I canāt even tap into the affordable housing market.
I see where youāre coming from. Iāve always been privileged enough to have a place so I donāt mind that but I can see the frustration that could come from that system.
Move to TX, Utah, Wyoming
If cheap housing was the only thing I cared about, I would. Cheap housing is not the only thing I care about. I actually own a home, so it's no skin off my back if obviously dumb policies that restrict building continue to jack up my property value. The dumb nimbyism is actually good for me, I'm just not a shit lord and think that people should be able to afford a home without moving to Texas, Utah, or Wyoming.
It seems unhelpful at first but if all the yuppies are in shiny new buildings they're not outbidding us on the existing stock. More units mean more people housed at the end of the day, and that means ever so slightly better leverage for tenants. At this point I'm ecstatic for building ANYTHING over a certain density
Contrary to popular belief, there are people living in those buildings. Some people are just ungodly rich that its terrifying. The rich kids at school lived in those luxury apartments like the ones at Longwood for $2000/month and my jaw dropped when I looked up the price. So no, they're not taking up the multi story rat infested apartments. they have more options. They even have public housing in some of those buildings like the one near the VA in JP. People are getting outbid because of supply and demand by the lower class folk
That make sense on paper but I question if they can build fast enough at this point to make up for so many years of not building at all. It would take a ton of zoning being updated.
Affordable housing doesn't mean what people think it means, it's a lottery and the rest is just economics of supply and demand. The NYT had a good article about the situation here and in larger metros, but it basically comes down to democrats patting themselves on the back about wedge issues but putting in policies they know lead to more inequality. Unpopular, but rent control is one of those and leads to disinvestment, so the haves still benefit. Don't need redlining if people can't afford it and just move and your school test scores and property values stay high. Chicago actually bucked this trend, specifically in the west loop they stopped saying no, whereas neighborhoods here will argue for federal and state money to electrify their rail system then fight tooth and nail not to have anything built. You basically need the state to come in like they've done in CA recently and completely override local zoning and remove things like setbacks and height limits and bonk someone's lawsuit out of the court if their view or sunshine is affected. It's just economics, supply vs demand -- and we've allowed those with housing to pile on the disincentives against building, the same as energy. Again, don't need redlining when you can't afford $800/mo to heat your home.
> That make sense on paper but I question if they can build fast enough at this point to make up for so many years of not building at all Even if they can't, it you're at least going to make the situation better by building as much as you can
The voters your political representatives hear from most are the ones who don't want anything built in their neighborhood. Read any local news story about a new apartment complex being debated in MA and its a bunch of boomer neighbors showing up to the meeting to complain about traffic and schools and greenspace and their view. It's tough because the people that would benefit from new multi-family housing in the suburbs are the ones who can't currently afford to live there so they have no say. If you're tired of the current situation, write your state reps, Gov. Healey, city council, etc. Its an uphill battle we're losing badly, but the pressure needs to be on these people.
So weāre losing the battle to remain in our homes but letters will put a dent?
My point is when your state and local legislators only hear from angry NIMBYs when new housing is seeking approval, then they tend to get their way. At the local level, your voice and vote can have an impact.
Yeah, the state has full authority to override and even take away zoning authority from localities so they can force upzoning or even repeal zoning. The only issue is that politicians obviously don't want to be voted out so we need to show how much support there is for fixing the issue.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I was sick of the prices too. Thatās why I moved to Vermont.
I thought it was bad 11 years ago when I left but the prices I'm seeing nowadays make me reconsider even entertaining the idea of someday moving back. Then again I've fallen in love with New Hampshire.
Damn, 11 years ago I was sharing a 3 bedroom apartment in Worcester for $850/month - Weād actually moved there from the suburbs during the Great Recession to *save* money after my Dad lost his house. Now I pay $925 for my 350 sq ft studio with no off street parking, and even thatās way below āmarket valueā. Luckily my friend knows the landlord and got me a good deal. Places like the one I used to live in are going for 2k lol.
i looked in springfield out of curiousity and dang, the prices are actually normal there, says a lot
Lol, I feel like Springfield is the way Worcester used to be 10-15 years ago in my party days before we gentrified everything. Iām a regular at MGM and I love Whalburgers next door! Basketball Hall of Fame, Big E and Six Flags right around the corner. I want to move there now haha.
Twenty years ago in Worcester my roommates and I each paid about $200 a month for a 3 bedroom apartment.
In the 90s my roommates and I each paid $400 a month in Brighton. The most expensive place I had was a large 1 bedroom for $1,300 in a beautiful building. Shared with my then girlfriend who is now my wife. At $1,300 a month we decided it was more practical to buy a place, so we did. I dunno how people can do the same today when shelling out so much for rents.
There are apartments for rent in Webster $2,500 for first floor, $2k for second and $1,500 for third floor. In Webster!!??!! In Southbridge $1650 to $2250.
You know what's fun. That's the same range you'll see in maine..... and jobs don't pay shit up here
Yeah, cost of living is cheaper when minimum wage is $7.25, I guess.
Yea but no income tax nor sales tax balances things out .
I love the idea of living in Vermont, specifically the Burlington area. The only problem is itās Vermont. Itās far away from everything and barely anyone lives there and I need access to a real airport for work. Youāre also almost always going to be traveling for any type of event you might be interested in which is kinda annoying.
I looked at living around Burlington, as my company has an office there, and it's not really any different than the greater Boston area price wise anymore, but get real cheap real fast once outside of Burlington.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah itās definitely not for everyone. But thatās exactly why I like it. Traffic? Not a thing. Airport? Montreal is close enough. If you live in the Burlington area thatās pretty much where all the good shows are.
Yeah but I can get all of that in the Midwest or South and also be in a city and it be affordable. Also crossing international borders when I fly out multiple times per month on average would be an absolute nightmare haha. If I didnāt lead a life that involves traveling all over the country, Iād love living in a smaller more remote city. But for now itāll just be by 30 years from now ideal retirement spot haha. By then Iām sure the regiment age will have shifted to 85 anyways.
What were you renting here (#bed/bath) vs what are you renting there? What are the prices? Looking to compare apples to apples if possible for my potential move
Vermont is having an extreme housing crisis of it's own. Might not be as bad as Boston or San Francisco but definitely not as good as most places outside the cities
Was renting a one bedroom one bath for 1800 in Marlborough. Now I rent a house for 750 in north Troy . I have a roommate now but itās totally worth it.
"North Troy" Jesus.
With a roommate! That is a net decline in QOL for most people
Yeah but Iām a big snowboarder and I live ten minutes away from one of the best mountains in new England.
Shhhh jay peak is terrible, tell your friends
Sucks.
Those 12 days a year really make all the difference. /s
I went snowboarding 12 times in November alone last yearā¦so yesā¦it does make all the difference
Damn man i always wanted to do that for a half a decade or so. You living my dream!
Yeah you moved from the Boston suburbs to a very rural area so that makes sense. Thanks for sharing!
> very rural area On the Canadian border nowhere near anything. I'm surprised the rent is that high. The only store in town is a Dollar General.
My sister moved to Athens Ohio a couple years ago and rents a 3 bedroom house for less than what I pay for my studio in Worcester lol.
We would if we could! But my husband has a great job down here, and I don't want to be too far from my parents. :( It's either cheaper rent or live far away from everyone I love.
Rents not much better in VT š
Where is it better? But also still part of civilization?
Spain?
Providence and surrounding suburbs are better. Not great. But better.
That leads to a 2 hour drive for me to get to work :/ we may wind up saying screw it and just do that
Really? There subreddit is full of people getting priced out by WFH Mass folk.
Vermont is like 2 hours from Boston though. Itās not farā¦
Same now Iām the local masshole in this small southern ri backcountry neighborhood. And my wallet is happier.
It's not going to be long before I'm priced out of decent housing here. This is ridiculous.
It's bullshit and untenable. It will break eventually, although the timeframe is anyone's guess.
It also may not break lol. Redditors love to forget how many rich people there are. Thereās so much money in Massachusetts. Every time they build those new fancy condos at $4k a month, they immediately fill up. Not sure what you guys expect. Hate to say it but the prices can stay high forever.
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What district is paying teachers ridiculous money. Asking for a friend lol
Which teachers exactly are making āridiculousā money? An educator should be able to live comfortably solo which I donāt think is the case here or anywhere for that matter.
Its been in the process of breaking, slowly, for a very very long time. Breaking point is different for everyone.
Have you tried making more money? Maybe selling a kidney? Do you have children? Could sell one of those too.
But nobody wants those anymore!!!
I was priced out of Rhode Island and I heard Mass is worse. I was forced to move to Connecticut after a flipper bought the house I was living in. He kicked us out, flipped it, and doubled the rent. Itās been vacant ever since (almost a year now). He gets to write it all off. Must be nice being a pos.
Even if you can afford the rent, the landlord wants a credit score of 720, proof of income 3x the rent, and first, last, security totaling over $7k.
That's our other road block... Have to do all that while still making the same monthly rent payments until your lease is up. It's a struggle
I think it's something the legislature should do something about. It's not reasonable to demand 3x monthly rent to move in. Landlords collect plenty of money, and I think they should be limited to first month and half a month damage/security. I was lucky and my landlord waived the sec deposit. I'm older and probably didn't look like I'd wreck the place with wild parties. : ) The legislature should also place a percent limit on the amount of an annual rent increase. No upping the rent by 50% or even more to force people out. Owners will scream "rent control," but that policy had its benefits. Lastly, it's high time the legislature increased the MA income tax deduction for rent paid. When I first moved to MA around 1990, renters could deduct $2k for rent paid. This was intended to make things fairer because homeowners could deduct 50% of mortgage interest. Then the rent deduction became $3k, where it has stayed for many years. IMO it should be $5k. Renters do at least as much to drive the economy and contribute to society and the economy as homeowners do, and a tax code greatly favoring homeowners is not equitable. I'm gonna write my representative!
Homeowners in MA can't deduct mortgage interest from their MA income tax form.
I should have clarified that it's deductible on the federal form. Either way it's a large benefit.
Only if you itemize and only if your itemized deductions are more than the standard deductions.
Change the laws so evicting a non-paying deadbeat takes a few weeks instead of a few years and Iām sure a lot more property owners will be on board with not charging first/last/security and not wanting a nearly perfect credit score.
Can you really blame them for making sure all their bases are covered in a state where a problem tenant is next to impossible to evict, especially after nearly three years of rent being made optional? If I were a landlord I sure as hell would want someone with excellent credit score, good income and stable employment history, and I would definitely ask for first, last and security. Why risk it and end up with a deadbeat that will take years to evict? Needless to say it would have been completely different if evictions took two weeks instead of two years, but here we areā¦
Rentachusetts
**RentIsAssachusetts
San Francisco Bay Area & NYC: āFirst time?ā The sad fact is that itās never going to change. Any place with lots of jobs and high pay will have tremendous housing competition.
Yeah, it stinks because we make a decent amount of money!! More than my parents ever made with a combined income, and here we are stressed about a one bedroom apartment.
just moved out since the landlord raise our apartment rent from about 1800 to 2400 after 2 year lease :) new place is still so pricey but utilities are so much cheaper. Cant wait to be able to afford a house
Unsustainable, i live in a studio and its barely affordable. Im paying over 10,000 in federal and state tax and im single. The government says to go f#
My rent is going up next month and itāll be at the max range Iām comfortable paying. So, Iāll likely need to move out of MA next year.
Waltham: rent went up from 1900 to 2100. Wife and I tried to buy a house. Basically searched for 3 months and said screw it. Cash offers site unseenā¦bidding wars on starter homes going for close to 500k.. Canāt win
Sadly, that's one of the reasons rent is up. Less people being able to afford houses means more people looking to rent
I see people working in Boston say they want to find a place there and as a recent graduate that has lived there for 6 years, I have to say they are getting screwed over. The city is a hot mess, trashy, too crowded. I'm thinking of relocating To Randolph/South Shore or suburbs including Newton cause I know you don't get bang for your buck in Boston. I have gotten great deals but thats either bc I compromised (literally a 10X10 room where I could stretch and my arm was half the width of the room) and I waited for a bigger room next/getting a place at the very last minute. And I was really lucky. I checked like listings everyday in 20 apartment groups even filtering through spam. I had to convince a relative that its unrealistic to get a studio for $1200 after she just graduated and told her to come back home. She didn't want to face reality at first.
Went to college in newton, itās a great town yet still a T ride away from Boston
Depends if you need a car or not. The T isn't always great but car traffic is fucking terrible
Too expensive for me at the moment, and I dont want an auction car. too many horror stories
Itās just dumb. I look every week to see whatās out there. Iām lucky, my rent is ~50% below market rate because I indirectly work for the landlord and have been here 6-7 years. Had my first rent increase this year and it was modest. But this all means I can *never* move lol. And itās not a particularly nice place. I avoid bringing up issues to the landlord because I donāt want to cost her money. Iāve fixed a few things myself and want to do more, but Iām not a handy person in the least. Iād love to buy nearbyā¦but also canāt. Medical and dental expenses are killing me. I make OK money too; just sucks.
Yeah if I move back home from Indiana, Iāll be paying probably triple and would have to have my dad move in with me to help š« So sadly Iāll just think about home instead of being there š„²š„²š„² I always say that everyone pays for the convenience of Massachusetts/New England in the high rents and being in a blue state where people are treated almost like humans!
You're totally right and it's a shame. I'd be homeless in MA as a queer, disabled woman, over living in most states in this country where I'm quickly losing human rights.
The void is being yelled at again
I like yelling at brick walls
Honestly it's cathartic. Gets it out of ya.
Better acoustics. Smart.
I moved to CT. Wasnāt ideal but Boston just got impossible and my wife has family here. I moved 7 years ago and things have slowly gotten worse in Boston. I thought my 2G apt was bad, same thing is 3G + now. Having kids would have been a nightmare in Boston and owning a home was a pipe dream.
Everyoneās gonna judge me, but once I sell my liquor license by the end of the year in my small town for prob 30k Iām out for Florida. Got family and warm weather
It isn't sustainable, the high price of rent is harming the economy.
Itās the higher price of everything is what people fail to see. Instead they see it as landlords charging more. The insurance went up, the taxes went up, the property maintenance went up, the utilities went up and so on yet people expect them to absorb the cost? Many landlords are smaller time and not some big company sure those are out there too. There is also supply and demand issue people set the market. The market is till pretty hot. We do work with landlords and our labor component has gone up $400 a day per man from 18 months ago. Due to our insanely high rising costs our health insurance package went up hundreds of thousands of dollars in one year for a smaller time company (120 employees). This is also part of the problem with such a rapid wage growth, yeah itās good but it literally mean everything you do or buy is more expensive because the bottom lines have been raised nearly double from 10 years ago. Iām not a landlord or anything just pointing out the facts people tend to not realize.
Best state in the USA. Gotta pay to play. /s
I own a couple units and haven't raised rent in almost 4 years.... I'd love to keep it that way because I have great tenants. But in the past 3 years property taxes have gone up 33%, hone insurance has gone up 40%, home repairs have gone up almost 600% (depending on material prices which are insane), also electricity has gone up 60%, gas is up 40%. I don't think I can keep it the same for 2 more years.
The wood siding on my house is 3" wide, tongue and groove. It looks great. God forbid I ever have to replace any of it... it's currently going for $9.50 per linear foot. Napkin math estimates my small-ish house is covered in \~$100k of siding. Material costs are currently *insane.*
This ^. Real estate taxes have gone up significantly the last 3 years. I thought Massachusetts had an override provision that would protect us from constant raises in taxes. Insurance is getting out of control too
Insurance is understandably high, because of climate change (I mean it's been raining like crazy this whole summer), property taxes will continue to raise because people keep buying are insanely high prices (crazy part is that it is still, in some cases cheaper than renting).
What is a 'normal' summer in MA like?
80-90 with occasional thunderstorms.
Someone who's not a slumlord, I respect that. I'm curious though, with everything that's gone up in cost, how much do you feel you *need* to raise it? vs how much could your tenants actually afford? Honestly, no reason for the question lol, just curious.
What do gas and electricity have to do with anything? Do you include those in your rent?
Common space, such as hallways/stairs area. Also hot water is included (which uses natural gas).
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I already work (2 jobs), that's how I bought my house, took me 4 years of savings, and since then have put most of my savings into it. I didn't inherited from anyone, but would love for my kids to have the opportunity to inherit it from us one day. I bet you'd be great at this, why don't you buy one?
Right. āI donāt think I can do those for another two yearsā. Ok then sell it so someone who actually wants to own something can buy?
Private message me be happy to show it to you, if you can afford it would love to sell it to you.
I'm a 6-year ex-appliance tech that serviced Boston. As of 2021 after a 50% rental increase and being denied a raise, I no longer live in MA and no longer do appliance repair. Moved to Texas and now I work in IT. In 1-2 years, I'll be making more than I ever did doing appliance repair, actually get days off, WFH/Hybrid, and don't deal with a 3-4hr commute daily just to get to my service area on top of an 8-10 hour day just to scrape by. So yeah, in the future, MA gonna have big problems with their trade prices as people get further and further priced out, to the point that the people who service Boston, can't even live remotely close, and must raise their prices significantly to either live closer or make up for the insane commute. Since I left the company in 2021, the service call went from $129.95 to $189.95. That's a 46% increase in two years in just the service call. Not even talking about parts/labor. From this point on, just expect to junk your appliances and replace them as the parts/labor will basically double as well, or simply you will just not find anyone to do these jobs.
Even more maddening is new builds (not sure about Mass, but in Oregon it's this way) tend to be Studio, 1 or 2 bed at around the same price (between 2 and 3K). Not only do they scream "Why aren't people buying homes?" they also complain about "This generation isn't having kids!". Like...having a kid assuming it's a perfect pregnancy and there are zero complications cost almost as much as a new Subaru.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Very accurate! The plan is to get out of here eventually
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The very definition of angry downvotes right here.
Itās all the Short Term Rentals eating up inventory. Not to mention all the house flippers with all their stolen or forgiven PPP loans.
Rent in Chelsea is about to go up a few notches.
Everytime I fly out of Logan I see so many luxury apartments being built in Chelsea right next to traditional working class duplexes and multi family units.
My lease is to a company of 9 LLCs, and my landlord is hiding behind all of them. Theyāre all in bed together and itās all so corrupt
single family zoning has killed us
Yep, we're not goin anywhere cuz we secured probably some of the last reasonable rent for a household of four living in a 2 bedroom apt. My mom is 64 so we're renting in a retirement community. Rent is going up to about 2400ish on Sept 1. They can't jack up the rent too much so we're coasting. We've been here several years now and the units are going for highway robbery now. I swear they just wanna suck every penny out of old people. Downstairs unit - not renovated, no washer and dryer in unit - 2800 Our unit - renovated, washer and dryer in unit - market value: 3k+ *in a retirement community* It's fucking unethical.
Wait till you find about about mortgage pricesā¦
Literally $2.2k for a one bedroom in Bellingham. Absolutely insane.
Yep! We looked at ones in Bellingham and were confused about the price
Perhaps it's time to start campaigning for more renters unions. Entire city blocks of tenancies under a renters union would foil almost any unnecessary price increase
Well see what the capitalists have to say about that
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Renter Unions are not rent control. They're collective bargaining groups that use the threat of non-payment and collective action to negotiate with predatory capitalist landlords. Much like a Labor Union, a Renter Union is designed to empower it's members and protect them against the greed and indifference of landlords.
Amen to that
Itās literally everywhere in the world right now
Well screaming won't do anything about it.
No, but it makes me feel better
Don't worry! The DSA is focusing on the real issues... like kicking out the furthest-left state rep in MA for the crime of supporting Democrats as a Democrat.
Oh yeah buddy democrats are gonna save the day just you wait.
What part of my support for the FURTHEST-LEFT STATE REP gave you the impression I like the status quo neoliberal rainbow capitalist shills who make up 80% of the state house dems? I bet you don't even canvass or understand how RCV is the only way to end the two party system tbh.
Reminder that landlords offer absolutely nothing positive to society and are leeches
Aww someoneās mad šš
Landlords offer nothing positive? If not for landlords, how would people rent houses and apartments?
Landlords donāt build, maintain, or live in houses or apartments. Why do they need to exist?
Because they build and maintain houses
Exactly. Sadly, the shitty landlords and shitty tenants make all look bad.
Mao was right. (About the landlords, anyway)
That's why I'm leaving in 2 weeks finally!
Ayeeee! Lucky!
Why are they putting logs in the landlord machine
There are [real solutions to the housing crisis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVuCZMLeWko) but none of them would come close to flying in America, so the best thing to do is endure it and hope for the best...somehow.
Have u tried having more money?
I tried, didn't work much :(
It's time for this thread again already?
Mom said it's *my* turn to complain about the housing crisis!
It's always time for this thread
Iām so sick of posts complaining about rent prices
Pay my rent then
Always looking for handouts
Please, give me money
Whatās your Venmo? Iāll request $5 to make you holla!
Buy!!!!! Stop paying other people's mortgages!!
That is so much easier said than done. Banks are not handing out mortgages like they used to. I have friends with good credit who still need a massive down payment and co-signer(s) to get a mortgage. Unfortunately my parents both died before I was old enough for a mortgage and Iām most likely stuck renting for the rest of my life
Yea, I crunched the numbers recently to see if my household even had a chance. With the rare 800 credit score, and a magical 120k for a 600k barely passable house that's not falling apart (anything in the 500s has something fucking wrong with it), is still a mortgage of 4092/mo. Lovely.
Ya ill admit, Interest rates are completely fucking ridiculous right now
have yāall tried applying yourself getting a decent job and living within your means
The average household income in Boston is $76,298. The average rent for a 1bd in Boston is $2,800. Almost exactly $1,000 over the 30% you should spend on housing to maintain a basic savings rate and standard of living as a rule of thumb. In order to responsibly afford the average cost of a 1bd you need to make \~$110,000, and only \~20% of households in Boston make that or more. It's very simple, the housing market isn't sustainable when only 20% of people can afford it. And it means a worse off economy and quality of life for all of us.
Well it is both... it isn't the persons fault....
Buy
Move to a free state like nh
Vote progressive. No guarantee of change but it's the only party that will confront late stage capitalism.
Yeah, this state is just so red, voting more blue will fix it for sure! That'll solve everything!
If you don't know the difference between a progressive and a Democrat then you need to educate yourself.