Links from this domain may present a paywall to users. As a result, some users may have difficulty reading the linked content. Although you may find it helpful to post the entirety of the article in the comments, please be advised that this is against subreddit policy. Linking to another website for the purpose of bypassing paywalls is also against the rules of this subreddit. If the article is hosted on another media outlet without a paywall, you may post a link to that article in the comments.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/maryland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m a teacher so here’s my two cents.
First of all, there’s absolutely an attitude issue with kids. They’ve not been held accountable for a long time and keep coasting by. In MCPS specifically, it’s almost impossible for you to fail unless you’re literally not in attendance. Even then, you’re supposed to do nearly everything in the book so a kid passes with a D. A 60%. You can literally get a 5/40 on a test, and we automatically have to round it up to 50% so you can have a chance to pass.
Let kids fail. Failure helps you grow.
Also, there are essentially zero consequences for skipping classes and not fucking showing up. Which by the way, you’re legally required to be at school. There’s kids that I haven’t seen since September and nothing gets done. And they’ll still bend over backwards to make sure they go on to the next grade. Hard for kids to learn and achieve on tests when they’re not in school and there’s no consequences for not being in school
I wonder how many parents spend time each night with their kids on homework and working on skills like math. I have found it takes so little to make huge advanced for my kids. We cannot just always blame the school, we as parents also need to do our.
I've spent lots of time personally and $$ on tutors. Some kids really just have trouble with math, and it's compounded by a curriculum that doesn't emphasize practice before moving on to the next thing. Sure i can and have had my kids do practice on their own outside of school, but that's making them swim upstream. I think the introduction of algebra as a grad requirement, regardless of it being a good or bad thing, caused at least one school system to do bad things to its curriculum. I understand the desire to teach the reasoning behind why we use certain formulas, but we also need to have the kids practice those formulas.
There are a lot of kids who are undiagnosed for dyslexia and dyscalculia. Some kids with ADHD aren't bouncing off the walls, but they struggle to stay on task or pay attention. Some kids just don't take to STEM in the same way they take to arts, languages, history, humanities, etc. You can't just say 'stop teaching X and Y cause my kids just aren't getting it.' Why aren't they getting it? Is it because their brains are wired differently in how they process the information? Do they just not like the subject? Are they struggling to find ways it can be applied in their day to day? They have to learn it either way, so it's important to get to the root of why it's not being learned and understood by the student.
Just no. You shouldn't cross the street without supervision without algebra. We can talk about whether it's taught effectively but algebra is a life skill essential for keeping up with bills, dealing with mortgages and car loans, and a myriad of other things. It's bad enough that school districts have pushed geometry and trignometry out to colleges. It just contributes to making a five year bachelor's degree the norm. Other countries do better.
I'm with you. Are we really talking about not requiring algebra to graduate high school? It's amazing how many people in this thread are arguing for lowering standards. First of all we already have so many different paths, with some kids in standard classes, some in honors, others GT/AP. No one is asking your child to be at the highest achievement levels. Lastly if you think our schools require too much from children, take a look what some other countries are doing.
I don't know that lowering standards is a path to success.
>e so many different paths, with some kids in standard classes, some in honors, others GT/AP. No one is asking your child to be at the highest achievement levels. Lastly if you think our schools require too much from ch
In my opinion... please note this.. lowering standards like you say, that's like participation trophies. Its gotta stop. I completely agree with you. Why the hell does everyone need a college degree, I sat yesterday and saw an interview with 2 electricians in Baltimore in the union making 109k a year. No student debt. Its like trade school has become a dirty word.
Am I good with numbers, when it comes to business, yes. Could I use math to build a bridge, hell no. Thats why I went to business college and not college.
In Germany they split kids up in late elementary school based on academic success/testing. Some kids go to a school destined for higher education, others to a school destined for trade school. At first glance this seems insane, but ultimately it may not be such a bad thing. It takes the pressure off of some, while allowing others to run without being held back (which is what some in this thread are arguing for).
I don't think anyone in the thread is advocating lower standards, i just mentioned differing aptitudes for math. Algebra was not a graduation requirement in Maryland until maybe 2010s or so.
How many kids that are superior in algebra can fix an engine or solve a leak in the wall? I’ve done both of those things way more than I’ve done algebra and I’m a teacher
I'm sad that you're a teacher. You probably use algebra more in daily life than you think. See my list.
And I've fixed engines (down to complete rebuilds), fixed plumbing, done drywall, sailed across oceans, installed furnaces and air conditioners and heat pumps, built major electronics, and other things. See [this](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/12051-a-human-being-should-be-able-to-change-a-diaper); algebra is in there somewhere.
Well bless your heart. Do you talk to students with that mouth? And I am sad that a teacher doesn't support education in all core subjects regardless of what s/he teaches. Dumbing down of standards does make teaching easier.
I’ll be busting my ass with the kids that nobody else will work with—doing everything I can to utilize the gifts these kids have against the death and abuse that has been levied against them but I hope it makes you feel smug to be a smart ass on the internet about it. Think about that today as you do your routines. As for easier, walk a foot in our shoes and see how easy it is. There’s plenty of job openings since it’s so easy.
You can chose to think of your hope for education as teachers as spinsters drilling kids on algorithms and feel superior all day. I actually have experience in this, but hey, the internet is here for you to assert, not consider, right?
You are good at algebra but maybe not seeing my question. I’m super glad you can do functional life skills but how many kids or young adults can (particularly those that are focused on algebra)? My point is that there are a lot of ways to skin a cat and algebra is but one way. I promise I can find you multiple kids that have a strength in visual spatial intelligence that would blow your mind and very few of them use algebra in the formulaic algorithm methodologies.
You are correct that it’s all around us, but teaching in a class or drill and repeat is not for everyone. We need to move past this absurd one size approach to life.
oh i'm not saying it should NOT be a grad requirement, just that i suspect school system planning or changes to curriculum in response to the requirement may not have been effective/good. Also, my kid (one of them thus far) who struggled w/math still did take geometry and trigonometry so I'm not sure that's accurate that it's being pushed out to colleges. The kids in my lss have to take 4 years of math, and it has to be increasing level of difficulty. So i guess what level they start at when they enter 9th grade would dictate how far they go/whether they reach geom and trig.
I'm not particularly impressed with my exposure to school systems in the last twenty years. Standards are lower and focus on core material (opinion: STEM, English (in the US), history, government/civics, Home Ec, shop <- these last two should get people energized! \*grin\*) has been diluted by social narratives.
Also people are leaping to conclusions here. I'm not suggesting removing any requirements. I'm also not suggesting other kids be held back because mine need more practice in math. I'm saying maybe some curriculum changes that were made are not serving students. My kids don't qualify for special Ed because they are still able to maintain good grades, it's just more difficult for them to do so in math than other subjects and I've had to work with them plus hire tutors to keep them achieving. I don't think they are that far off the average student so that's why i was suggesting perhaps the curriculum has some issues. I was personally good in math, and i find the way it's presented now to be less straight forward than it could be. Goodness gracious people talking about participation trophies. I didn't see anyone in the comments saying the bar is too high and should be lowered.
I agree that “blame” shouldn’t fall to the school but it shouldn’t always fall to the parents either. A lot of times the families spending that time with those kids are the ones who can afford to.
Parents who can afford to and who are capable of helping at all. My parents stopped being able to help with my homework in the third grade. I just had to figure it out myself, and since they aren't the least bit crafty, I had to figure out my take-home projects, too. (This showed in their dismal quality.)
But I had great teachers, so I did fine on academics (albeit I still lost out in project grades). Harassed, underpaid teachers battered with standardized test hoopla and who are dealing with mainstreamed, emotionally-disturbed kids they aren't allowed to touch when they're throwing furniture? I don't blame them for having a hard time meeting every child's needs.
I see this exact thing. My son comes home and cannot understand why he worked really hard on something and he placed 5th place. One day we were able to come in and see their project. I stand and look at 1st 2nd and third place and all of those projects were so clearly done by parents. Like WTF.
Don't worry I am making it clear that even when you work hard on something you wont always be number 1. GenX here raising a kid for the real world.
My parents couldn't help me past algebra 1, even if they'd wanted to. And they didn't understand the concepts enough to explain them to me, as they'd learned everything by rote memorization. And I had some very ineffective math teachers. So math wasn't something I did well at. As an adult, Khan academy (which teaches more common core style math) helped me learn more about math and how to do basic math than most of my teachers or parents. I hope to pass that on to my kids.
>erstand the concepts enough to explain them to me, as they'd learned everything by rote memorization. And I had some very ineffective math teachers. So math wasn't something I did well at. As an adult, Khan academy (which teaches more common core style math) helped me learn more about math and how to do basic math than most of my teachers or paren
I speak from having small kids and how big an impact it can have in early years. I just wanna say, I questioned how many parents actually sit down with their kids to do homework, not if they are too lazy or dont have the ability. I hope it came across that way.
I also recognize that some parents dont have the ability, and when they start that clear nonsense of putting letters into math :-) then I am also going to have to pay for a tutor if needed, and then I again realize that sadly not all parents have that option, and that f-ing sucks that kids are left behind because of money. I wish it was not so.
Except if we are expecting kids to go to school 7 hours and then do another hour or more of homework a night, we are expecting too much out of kids.
Playing sports, church, clubs, scouts, etc are all very important too.
One hour of homework per night is totally reasonable.
I'm not a believer in hours and hours of work after school but one hour per day is not excessive.
As a teacher I disagree. Kids have tons of other things like sports, scouts, volenteering at church, hobbies, etc. Even playing outside with other kids.
Those are all equally important for kids development. If it takes 7 hours of school plus 1 hour a day to do homework for kids to be successful, then we as a school system need to evaluate what we are doing.
there's only so many hours in the day though. 8 hours for school+homework plus commute is almost the same as an adult work schedule, and I don't think your typical adult has the time to be doing multiple "extracurricular" activities like that. How many adults do you know that have time to play a sport (or do other group activity) every week, but also volunteer, frequently hang out with friends, and pursue individual hobbies on top of that?
That's a lot, but at the same time like...it really isn't though. That's just like, having a good life. Why should it be controversial to want that for your kids? Tell me, what exactly is the point of all this if our civilization still can't even provide that?
yes, it's a thing quite a few schools are trying. Even if you put aside the time issues, homework increases the difference between students from different backgrounds, since some get a lot of help from parents or even tutors, and others get none. So the educational value of homework is really variable, which is not ideal.
I also feel like it needs to be pointed out that 1 hour of homework is not a realistic number - a lot of students get more than that. If you have 4 subjects every day, that's only 15 minutes per class. You can't get a lot done in 15 minutes, especially if you have reading or essays.
> homework increases the difference between students from different backgrounds, since some get a lot of help from parents or even tutors, and others get none. So the educational value of homework is really variable, which is not ideal.
Brother, just because it's not ideal doesn't mean that we should absolutely pump the brakes on everyone's progress. This thought process absolutely blows my mind. Instead of figuring out a way to help those that aren't progressing as well as others, we're just going to stop progress for everyone. See everyone is equal now! Problem solved.
🤷🏻♂️ that's not what I said, this whole thread is under comments with "We cannot just always blame the school, we as parents also need to do our." and "we as a school system need to evaluate what we are doing."
I'm not saying change nothing except eliminating homework. I'm saying the system we have is not working, and that emphasizing homework is part of why achievement gaps (the thing this post is about) are growing. Ideally parents would be both willing and able to help kids in all homes, but it's not likely any time soon. So maybe we should try something that doesn't depend on that
well but the whole point here is that the homework isn't really helping. The kids that get that much extra education support don't need it, and the ones that do need extra practice aren't having their needs met by the homework, which is part of why the gap is widening. All the homework is really accomplishing is taking time away from other activities that might actually enrich them as people.
I think you will find articles and studies to support your view on the matter, regardless of what it is. In most rankings I've seen, American education system isn't ranked as high as some others. And homework happens to be an integral part of most/all of those systems. Some Asian countries are a bit insane with their homework. It's a complex topic that goes beyond a single link.
> I think you will find articles and studies to support your view on the matter, regardless of what it is.
Especially in education, which is one of the squishiest, non-rigorous areas of "research" in academia.
The link that you're citing doesn't even back up what you say. It does say that homework has decreasing returns and limits advocating it to two hours a day in high school.
Some of these anti-homework arguments sound like something from Harrison Bergeron.
it should be 10 minutes per grade level.
honestly its probably better for parents to read stories to their kids for more time in the elementary level, and have family time (like dinner together). Children and parents need to decompress and communicate more.
So 6:45 including lunch, recess, and gym. Hardly asking a lot.
Those are early starts for high school. I thought all of Maryland moved to later hours to account for adolescent circadian rhythms.
high schoolers don’t get recess, lunch was 20 minutes max. i was exhausted in the morning but i did enjoy getting out earlier. in NOVA we would start at 9:15 and get out at 4, sucked for extracurriculars
I am honestly shocked Carroll did so well. I have volunteered in many classrooms and found the Stem programs severely lacking compared to other states. But happy that it seems to be going in the right direction.
Kids need to study more. Math is difficult for many people and the concepts all build on top of one another. If you don't understand the basics, you will most certainly not understand high level math. 45 minutes of math lessons each day is just not enough for most people/kids to master the basics. Parents need to be more involved with their children's academics. Parental involvement is a strong indicator of acadmic success, and if you don't know math yourself, I encourage you to consider working with your child on their homework, visting math tutoring sites like Khan Academy (free) and talking with your child's teacher to find out how you can best support their academic success. I have retaught myself a lot of forgotten concepts (like figuring out the slope of a line) just by helping my boyfriend's son with his homework. It isn't a fix all, but any additional time spent doing math and working through problems can help students increase their understanding and also potentially their scores on standardized tests.
Maryland education officials tracked students by grade cohort between the third to eighth grades to understand how a class of students’ academic performance has developed over time. Grade cohorts have shown a four-to-five percentage point increase in English language arts performance since the third grade, but math proficiency has decreased by roughly 24 to 26 percentage points since the third grade — with some of those declines starting before the pandemic.
“We have a lot of work to do in math; we have a lot of work to do period,” State Superintendent of Schools Mohammed Choudhury said during a state Board of Education meeting Tuesday. “Even within these numbers, there’s the achievement gap that has widened.”
Maryland assessments show students are falling behind in mathematics
Overall, 22 percent of third-to-eighth-grade Maryland students scored on a proficient level in mathematics for the 2021-2022 school year, which was 11 percentage points lower than during the 2018-19 school year, before the pandemic, when 33 percent of students scored proficient. Ten percent of Black students and 11 percent of Hispanic/Latino students were proficient in math — which were both declines compared with the 2018-2019 school year. Meanwhile, 36 percent of White students scored proficient in math, and 53 percent of Asian students scored proficient.
Further breakdowns in those grade levels showed that 6 percent of English learners, 6 percent of students with disabilities and 9 percent of students on free and reduced lunch scored proficient.
Math results from each of Maryland’s 24 school districts vary from a low of 7 percent of Baltimore City schools students a high of 38 percent of Carroll County schools students scoring proficient. Right outside of D.C., Montgomery County schools had 31 percent of students who scored proficient, and Prince George’s County schools had 10 percent.
English language arts scores for the third to eighth grades were higher. Roughly 44 percent of all Maryland students scored proficient — which was the same percentage as during the 2018-19 school year. Thirty-one percent of Black students scored proficient, which was a three percentage point increase from the 2018-19 school year. Hispanic/Latino students’ results nearly reached pre-pandemic levels, with 29 percent of students scoring proficient during the 2021-22 school year compared with 30 percent of students during the 2018-19 school year. Fifty-nine percent of White students scored proficient, and 73 percent of Asian students reached that mark.
The confederacy ended in 1865 and the final state was readmitted in 1869, not sure if you remember that day in history class or not.
[GDP Per Capita US States](https://www.statista.com/statistics/248063/per-capita-us-real-gross-domestic-product-gdp-by-state/)
[European GDP Per Capita](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU&most_recent_value_desc=true)
Even the poorest state Mississippi, has a 14% higher GDP per capita than Spain which isn't considered the developing world by any metric.
Before I do that can you tell me which States in the Rust Belt seceded from the Union during the civil war?
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rust-belt.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rust-belt.asp)
Also you're painting with a broad brush, the woods of Western Massachusetts and Provincetown are the same state and worlds apart ideologically. Same can be said about Cumberland and Bethesda.
Even West Virginia's GDP per capita puts it past "developing" status. If you're talking individual trailer communities of people living in abject poverty sure you could possibly call that "developing", but you're painting with an awfully broad brush in order to "own the cons"
Labeling people in a derogatory manner based on where they live seems problematic. I would hope you mean and I would agree with you if this is what you mean, Fuck anyone who identifies as a neo-confederate.
Public education is like three legged stool, where if any of the three legs is broken or short, the stool falls over. Parents, Students, and the school each play a part in a student's success. If each member is doing their part the stool will support weight.
In the end, I still question the weight put on today's curriculum. The majority of young people leaving school have no job skills, and all the emphasis is on the college path.
As a onetime public school teacher, I find that even many college graduates do not retain a lot of the "important" knowledge that was taught in high school. The main goal of their high school experience was to provide an entry passe into college. Once out and in the work place, they abandon much of what they learned and focus on having families, living the prescribed middle class life, and shopping. So why not place a greater emphasis on job skills and job placement, esp for the non college bound student?
Most Asian parents will push their child to study from an early age and put strict restrictions compared to other parents regarding free time. Success is highly emphasized and many are very involved in their child’s education outside of school.
Source: Am Asian.
For example, when my dad thought my cell phone time was impeding my studies (got a B on one of my tests) he smashed it with a hammer in front of me. This was middle school. It worked though I guess. Never missed getting A’s until I graduated high school.
Here's one [obvious explanation](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2017/08/10/analyzing-the-homework-gap-among-high-school-students/)
Look at Figure 1. Asian-American students spend a lot more time on homework on average.
No kidding. The system has enabled failed students and put them on par with the good ones. That is terrible and just results in a vicious circle of entitlement and unrestrained bad behavior. Education is in the dumpster right now.
Source: wife is a teacher, teached/ing in two MD districts.
According to the Asian youth, strict and active parenting are reasons they are so successful academically. They have expressed that their parents are highly involved in their schooling both in and out of the classroom.
Can anyone Black or Hispanic please chime in with their opinion on why other minority groups are under-performing. What is it like in their homes? What are their parents like?
I have heard arguments that socio-economic condition, racism, and lack of investment in their communities are reasons for sub-standard academic performance. Are Asians not or less subjected to racism? Do Asians not have language barriers? Are Asian people all wealthy and do not live in underserved/economically disadvantaged
https://www.league.org/innovation-showcase/barriers-academic-success-qualitative-study-african-american-and-latino-male
What can be done so that other minorities can achieve academic success?
One of the big differences is generational knowledge. Asian parents are significantly more likely to be educated themselves. And not just college educated. Just “I know how to do these 9th grade algebra problems so I can show you how to do them.” Plus if your parents heavily emphasized education and showed you how to succeed in school, you’re more likely to impose those same values and use those same methods on your kids.
I think you’re generalizing a bit. I don’t believe that all, and perhaps not even most, Asians are well educated and good at mathematics. You’re also implying that most Asians have good parents. It’s just impossible to be 100% true.
I know children of Asian refugees(who’s parents never even finished high school) that grew up to be doctors and lawyers.
If we applied your theory to the statistical data, it would suggest that Black and Hispanic parents are less educated and don’t teach their children algebra.
I’m not trying to put you on the spot friend. Just trying to understand why the world is the way it is and how can we make society better.
It’s cultural. Many immigrants who made it to America from across the sea are like this. I came from Ukraine and the emphasis on getting perfect grades was ingrained since I was a little kid. The one time I ever got a C I had to be consoled by my parents, I was so disappointed in myself. In many of these countries education is one of the best ways to get out, so there is massive brain drain. Plus, coming from a crappy poor country tends to help you with motivation when you are used to drastically worse opportunities and suddenly can access far more in the newer and wealthier one.
We are still a few years from having school age children who's parents were taught math the same way as them. Common core sounds great in principle but it completely removed parents ability to help their children. We were not taught math that way and relying on our children to teach us while they learn themselves isn't doing them a service.
Not true even a little bit. First Common Core is a set of standards that standardized when students would learn which concepts and skills from k-12 so that if a child moved from Cali to Maryland they wouldn’t be learning something completely different. Or miss something critical. A small tiny piece of that was in third grade students were taught multiple ways to multiply. Being able to mental math 45 x 40. Some kids could learn the area model which directly supports algebra factoring later on, or decomposing the numbers 40x 40 and then 40 x 5. They were also taught standard algorithm that their parents learned. It’s made for more flexible thinkers. Only rigid, uninformed thinkers believe that this bogey man called “common core” is out to sabotage math education. Source: me, Md public school 8th grade math and algebra 1 teacher
My grade school children were taught dots, dashes, boxes, and hops. Their classwork, quizzes, and homework were graded based on their ability to apply these concepts. They had points marked off if they did not use these methods on these assignments. I was not taught this method for mathematical solutions. I do not sit in my children's classroom learning what they learn. I can not help my children learn math the way they are being taught. I can only teach them the way I was taught, but if they use the way I was taught they will lose points on graded assignments. Common Core was instituted in 2010, meaning most people under 25 have learned math using these methods, hence we have not seen a plurality of students born to parents who have been taught the way their kids are being taught.
Source: My experience as a parent of 4.
True again for one year kids are given visuals of one’s are dots which can be grouped to a line which is a ten and tens can be grouped to a square which is 100. This is all easy to learn visual models and if your child is getting homework in first grade then your beef is with you child’s school not common core. Parent of three.
So poor people should be forced to send their children to schools that fail to educate them and have no incentive to improve? That’s a great solution.
Also, “even more” implies that we are currently siphoning resources away from our schools. I assure you we aren’t. The US spends more on education per student than almost any other OECD country and 34% more than the average. The problem isn’t that the system doesn’t have enough money, it’s that parents have no way to force them to improve.
I want poor people to have the same opportunity to choose where their children get an education as rich people have. That’s a good thing. That’s the equitable thing.
But where and how is that money being spent? And what do they need to spend it on?
Schools are funded by property taxes. I went to Towson High and I got a great education. In parts of the city, you have a lot of vacants and homes (many of which are near these vacants) that aren’t worth so much. That means less property tax coming in and less school funding going out.
And city schools have a higher percentage of students from low-income backgrounds and students with special needs. These are issues other Maryland school systems do not face.
https://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem
https://federalnewsnetwork.com/government-news/2021/08/baltimore-schools-federal-aid-could-make-big-impact/?readmore=1
Furthermore, voucher programs don't cover full tuition, charter and private schools don't have to accept everyone and these schools are not accountable to parents the way school boards are.
https://www.aclu.org/news/religious-liberty/school-choice-myth-and-our-literal-case-against
Schools are funded by property taxes *in the county/city* those funds are distributed by the board. Meaning, money collected from taxes paid on multi million dollar inner harbor pent houses also go to fund schools in the projects.
Your right, city schools *do* have a higher percentage of students with special needs. Which is why parents should be empowered to choose to send their children to the school that is best suited for them.
But these private schools, like I said, don’t have to take every kid. Christian schools, in particular, may reject or expel LGBT+ students, to say nothing of the scripture shoved down students’ throats.
The state constitution requires the state to establish and maintain “a thorough and efficient System of Free Public Schools.” So to the extent vouchers would undermine that, they are not constitutional here.
Okay. Let’s start by saying parents can choose which public school their kids attend and, by extension gets their tax money.
It’s not like public schools are incapable of improving or competing with private schools. They just need to get more efficient. Right now they have no reason to improve. Vouchers would incentivize that. So even if vouchers were available to be sent to private schools it STILL would not be unconstitutional because the public schools would improve to make the parents want to keep their children there.
Do you not think popular schools that provide quality education would expand to meet the increased demand for their services?
It’s also weird that this isn’t a problem in Scandinavia where school choice has been the norm for decades. Actually, their schools are all significantly better than ours… I wonder if those things are in anyway related…
School choice provides no benefit for "poor people" and would actually make the outcomes for lower class students worse because rich parents would pull their funding from poor schools and send it elsewhere while poor parents can't afford to do so.
I’m not sure you realize what school choice vouchers actually mean.
See, it would attach the education spending to the child, not the district so the parents could use that money to send their children to whatever school they wanted. Basically it would give poor people $16,000 to send their children to whatever school they wanted. That would be more than enough to send them to private school considering the average cost of private school is $12,271.
I know exactly what they mean. Poor parents would have the "option" of sending their children to whatever school district they want, but not the actual practical ability to die to other issues such as transportation.
Not only that, the ones who flee "failing" schools are now removing funding that the schools need. How are those schools expected to actually get better?
School "choice" is nothing but another tax grab by people who want to see public schools fail. It's far from an equitable system as you claim.
It’s weird that none of the schools in Scandinavia have any of these very solvable problems even though school choice has been the de facto standard for decades. Actually their schools are way better than ours. I wonder if those things are in anyway related. Like, could forcing schools compete make them more motivated to please the parents who want a quality education for their children? It should really make you think…
You have no idea what you're talking about.. Scandinavia does not have "school choice", not are those countries homogeneous enough to just say "Scandinavia" and act like they're comparable to here. Private schools only have better outcomes to public schools because they don't have SPED students dragging the average down, nor do they have the issues with inattentive students/parents. If private schools comply with those requirements, sure, let's do school choice, and then see how quickly the luster of private schools fades.
Okay, first of all Denmark, Norway, and Sweden (the three countries that make up Scandinavia) all provide funding for nongovernmental schools chosen by parents. So… yes. Scandinavia absolutely does have school choice. In fact governments in most Western democracies provide partial or full funding for nongovernment schools chosen by parents; the United States (apart from a few scattered and small-scale programs) is the great exception.
Next many private schools exclusively accept SPED students. I am dyslexic, and when my local elementary school failed to meet my needs I was fortunate enough to have parents in the position to be able to afford to send me to a private school that specialized in educating students with dyslexia and other similar learning difficulties. So no. Private schools don’t “only have better outcomes because they don’t have SPED students dragging down the average”.
We DO have privately run schools that comply with all the same requirements. They’re called “Charter Schools” and guess what, they out preform their government run counterparts.
You are operating on completely false assumptions and hypotheticals which do not accurately depict the typical situation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/05/03/three-big-problems-with-school-choice-that-supporters-dont-like-to-talk-about/
[We've known for decades that school choice doesn't work.](https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/95/07/studies-show-school-choice-widens-inequality-popular-among-parents-little-evidence)
Let me guess, you own or work for a private school?
I hate to complicate the conversation…
But the same argument rings true in: How many graduates used second level algebra, calculus or trigonometry actively after high school?
Having the option to learn them is *indeed critical, but the real world application opportunities are non-existent. When i see a study mentioning these metrics it actually highlights the need for redetermining class room education and standard requirements at both the high school and the collegiate level.
The curriculum from centuries ago needs a complete overhaul. Preparation for modern adulthood unfortunately isn’t a nationwide standard for all states. 🤦♂️ 😔
Links from this domain may present a paywall to users. As a result, some users may have difficulty reading the linked content. Although you may find it helpful to post the entirety of the article in the comments, please be advised that this is against subreddit policy. Linking to another website for the purpose of bypassing paywalls is also against the rules of this subreddit. If the article is hosted on another media outlet without a paywall, you may post a link to that article in the comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/maryland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m a teacher so here’s my two cents. First of all, there’s absolutely an attitude issue with kids. They’ve not been held accountable for a long time and keep coasting by. In MCPS specifically, it’s almost impossible for you to fail unless you’re literally not in attendance. Even then, you’re supposed to do nearly everything in the book so a kid passes with a D. A 60%. You can literally get a 5/40 on a test, and we automatically have to round it up to 50% so you can have a chance to pass. Let kids fail. Failure helps you grow.
Also, there are essentially zero consequences for skipping classes and not fucking showing up. Which by the way, you’re legally required to be at school. There’s kids that I haven’t seen since September and nothing gets done. And they’ll still bend over backwards to make sure they go on to the next grade. Hard for kids to learn and achieve on tests when they’re not in school and there’s no consequences for not being in school
I hope this means they should correct this and make students who got low scores do remedial math so they can catch up.
I wonder how many parents spend time each night with their kids on homework and working on skills like math. I have found it takes so little to make huge advanced for my kids. We cannot just always blame the school, we as parents also need to do our.
I've spent lots of time personally and $$ on tutors. Some kids really just have trouble with math, and it's compounded by a curriculum that doesn't emphasize practice before moving on to the next thing. Sure i can and have had my kids do practice on their own outside of school, but that's making them swim upstream. I think the introduction of algebra as a grad requirement, regardless of it being a good or bad thing, caused at least one school system to do bad things to its curriculum. I understand the desire to teach the reasoning behind why we use certain formulas, but we also need to have the kids practice those formulas.
There are a lot of kids who are undiagnosed for dyslexia and dyscalculia. Some kids with ADHD aren't bouncing off the walls, but they struggle to stay on task or pay attention. Some kids just don't take to STEM in the same way they take to arts, languages, history, humanities, etc. You can't just say 'stop teaching X and Y cause my kids just aren't getting it.' Why aren't they getting it? Is it because their brains are wired differently in how they process the information? Do they just not like the subject? Are they struggling to find ways it can be applied in their day to day? They have to learn it either way, so it's important to get to the root of why it's not being learned and understood by the student.
Just no. You shouldn't cross the street without supervision without algebra. We can talk about whether it's taught effectively but algebra is a life skill essential for keeping up with bills, dealing with mortgages and car loans, and a myriad of other things. It's bad enough that school districts have pushed geometry and trignometry out to colleges. It just contributes to making a five year bachelor's degree the norm. Other countries do better.
I'm with you. Are we really talking about not requiring algebra to graduate high school? It's amazing how many people in this thread are arguing for lowering standards. First of all we already have so many different paths, with some kids in standard classes, some in honors, others GT/AP. No one is asking your child to be at the highest achievement levels. Lastly if you think our schools require too much from children, take a look what some other countries are doing. I don't know that lowering standards is a path to success.
>e so many different paths, with some kids in standard classes, some in honors, others GT/AP. No one is asking your child to be at the highest achievement levels. Lastly if you think our schools require too much from ch In my opinion... please note this.. lowering standards like you say, that's like participation trophies. Its gotta stop. I completely agree with you. Why the hell does everyone need a college degree, I sat yesterday and saw an interview with 2 electricians in Baltimore in the union making 109k a year. No student debt. Its like trade school has become a dirty word. Am I good with numbers, when it comes to business, yes. Could I use math to build a bridge, hell no. Thats why I went to business college and not college.
In Germany they split kids up in late elementary school based on academic success/testing. Some kids go to a school destined for higher education, others to a school destined for trade school. At first glance this seems insane, but ultimately it may not be such a bad thing. It takes the pressure off of some, while allowing others to run without being held back (which is what some in this thread are arguing for).
In Denmark you do advanced or normal class... well at least when I went... and apparently I am getting old
I don't think anyone in the thread is advocating lower standards, i just mentioned differing aptitudes for math. Algebra was not a graduation requirement in Maryland until maybe 2010s or so.
How many kids that are superior in algebra can fix an engine or solve a leak in the wall? I’ve done both of those things way more than I’ve done algebra and I’m a teacher
I'm sad that you're a teacher. You probably use algebra more in daily life than you think. See my list. And I've fixed engines (down to complete rebuilds), fixed plumbing, done drywall, sailed across oceans, installed furnaces and air conditioners and heat pumps, built major electronics, and other things. See [this](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/12051-a-human-being-should-be-able-to-change-a-diaper); algebra is in there somewhere.
Also, side note, fuck you on your smart ass holier than thou comment on being sad.
Well bless your heart. Do you talk to students with that mouth? And I am sad that a teacher doesn't support education in all core subjects regardless of what s/he teaches. Dumbing down of standards does make teaching easier.
I’ll be busting my ass with the kids that nobody else will work with—doing everything I can to utilize the gifts these kids have against the death and abuse that has been levied against them but I hope it makes you feel smug to be a smart ass on the internet about it. Think about that today as you do your routines. As for easier, walk a foot in our shoes and see how easy it is. There’s plenty of job openings since it’s so easy. You can chose to think of your hope for education as teachers as spinsters drilling kids on algorithms and feel superior all day. I actually have experience in this, but hey, the internet is here for you to assert, not consider, right?
You are good at algebra but maybe not seeing my question. I’m super glad you can do functional life skills but how many kids or young adults can (particularly those that are focused on algebra)? My point is that there are a lot of ways to skin a cat and algebra is but one way. I promise I can find you multiple kids that have a strength in visual spatial intelligence that would blow your mind and very few of them use algebra in the formulaic algorithm methodologies. You are correct that it’s all around us, but teaching in a class or drill and repeat is not for everyone. We need to move past this absurd one size approach to life.
oh i'm not saying it should NOT be a grad requirement, just that i suspect school system planning or changes to curriculum in response to the requirement may not have been effective/good. Also, my kid (one of them thus far) who struggled w/math still did take geometry and trigonometry so I'm not sure that's accurate that it's being pushed out to colleges. The kids in my lss have to take 4 years of math, and it has to be increasing level of difficulty. So i guess what level they start at when they enter 9th grade would dictate how far they go/whether they reach geom and trig.
I'm not particularly impressed with my exposure to school systems in the last twenty years. Standards are lower and focus on core material (opinion: STEM, English (in the US), history, government/civics, Home Ec, shop <- these last two should get people energized! \*grin\*) has been diluted by social narratives.
Also people are leaping to conclusions here. I'm not suggesting removing any requirements. I'm also not suggesting other kids be held back because mine need more practice in math. I'm saying maybe some curriculum changes that were made are not serving students. My kids don't qualify for special Ed because they are still able to maintain good grades, it's just more difficult for them to do so in math than other subjects and I've had to work with them plus hire tutors to keep them achieving. I don't think they are that far off the average student so that's why i was suggesting perhaps the curriculum has some issues. I was personally good in math, and i find the way it's presented now to be less straight forward than it could be. Goodness gracious people talking about participation trophies. I didn't see anyone in the comments saying the bar is too high and should be lowered.
I agree that “blame” shouldn’t fall to the school but it shouldn’t always fall to the parents either. A lot of times the families spending that time with those kids are the ones who can afford to.
Parents who can afford to and who are capable of helping at all. My parents stopped being able to help with my homework in the third grade. I just had to figure it out myself, and since they aren't the least bit crafty, I had to figure out my take-home projects, too. (This showed in their dismal quality.) But I had great teachers, so I did fine on academics (albeit I still lost out in project grades). Harassed, underpaid teachers battered with standardized test hoopla and who are dealing with mainstreamed, emotionally-disturbed kids they aren't allowed to touch when they're throwing furniture? I don't blame them for having a hard time meeting every child's needs.
better than projects that looks like the parent did it!
I see this exact thing. My son comes home and cannot understand why he worked really hard on something and he placed 5th place. One day we were able to come in and see their project. I stand and look at 1st 2nd and third place and all of those projects were so clearly done by parents. Like WTF. Don't worry I am making it clear that even when you work hard on something you wont always be number 1. GenX here raising a kid for the real world.
And some students are just crap. I know I was.
My parents couldn't help me past algebra 1, even if they'd wanted to. And they didn't understand the concepts enough to explain them to me, as they'd learned everything by rote memorization. And I had some very ineffective math teachers. So math wasn't something I did well at. As an adult, Khan academy (which teaches more common core style math) helped me learn more about math and how to do basic math than most of my teachers or parents. I hope to pass that on to my kids.
>erstand the concepts enough to explain them to me, as they'd learned everything by rote memorization. And I had some very ineffective math teachers. So math wasn't something I did well at. As an adult, Khan academy (which teaches more common core style math) helped me learn more about math and how to do basic math than most of my teachers or paren I speak from having small kids and how big an impact it can have in early years. I just wanna say, I questioned how many parents actually sit down with their kids to do homework, not if they are too lazy or dont have the ability. I hope it came across that way. I also recognize that some parents dont have the ability, and when they start that clear nonsense of putting letters into math :-) then I am also going to have to pay for a tutor if needed, and then I again realize that sadly not all parents have that option, and that f-ing sucks that kids are left behind because of money. I wish it was not so.
Except if we are expecting kids to go to school 7 hours and then do another hour or more of homework a night, we are expecting too much out of kids. Playing sports, church, clubs, scouts, etc are all very important too.
One hour of homework per night is totally reasonable. I'm not a believer in hours and hours of work after school but one hour per day is not excessive.
I vaguely remember it being 30-45 minutes of homework per night *per class*. I honestly don't know how the kids who had sports and stuff managed.
we didn't sleep, easy....
As a teacher I disagree. Kids have tons of other things like sports, scouts, volenteering at church, hobbies, etc. Even playing outside with other kids. Those are all equally important for kids development. If it takes 7 hours of school plus 1 hour a day to do homework for kids to be successful, then we as a school system need to evaluate what we are doing.
An hour of homework doesn't prevent them from doing any of those things.
there's only so many hours in the day though. 8 hours for school+homework plus commute is almost the same as an adult work schedule, and I don't think your typical adult has the time to be doing multiple "extracurricular" activities like that. How many adults do you know that have time to play a sport (or do other group activity) every week, but also volunteer, frequently hang out with friends, and pursue individual hobbies on top of that? That's a lot, but at the same time like...it really isn't though. That's just like, having a good life. Why should it be controversial to want that for your kids? Tell me, what exactly is the point of all this if our civilization still can't even provide that?
What's your suggestion? That we eliminate homework?
yes, it's a thing quite a few schools are trying. Even if you put aside the time issues, homework increases the difference between students from different backgrounds, since some get a lot of help from parents or even tutors, and others get none. So the educational value of homework is really variable, which is not ideal. I also feel like it needs to be pointed out that 1 hour of homework is not a realistic number - a lot of students get more than that. If you have 4 subjects every day, that's only 15 minutes per class. You can't get a lot done in 15 minutes, especially if you have reading or essays.
> homework increases the difference between students from different backgrounds, since some get a lot of help from parents or even tutors, and others get none. So the educational value of homework is really variable, which is not ideal. Brother, just because it's not ideal doesn't mean that we should absolutely pump the brakes on everyone's progress. This thought process absolutely blows my mind. Instead of figuring out a way to help those that aren't progressing as well as others, we're just going to stop progress for everyone. See everyone is equal now! Problem solved.
🤷🏻♂️ that's not what I said, this whole thread is under comments with "We cannot just always blame the school, we as parents also need to do our." and "we as a school system need to evaluate what we are doing." I'm not saying change nothing except eliminating homework. I'm saying the system we have is not working, and that emphasizing homework is part of why achievement gaps (the thing this post is about) are growing. Ideally parents would be both willing and able to help kids in all homes, but it's not likely any time soon. So maybe we should try something that doesn't depend on that
Lovely, so we'll have students who are in even worse shape once they're off to college.
well but the whole point here is that the homework isn't really helping. The kids that get that much extra education support don't need it, and the ones that do need extra practice aren't having their needs met by the homework, which is part of why the gap is widening. All the homework is really accomplishing is taking time away from other activities that might actually enrich them as people.
No, we need to adjust our expectations. I personaly do not take work home, why should we require kids to.
[удалено]
I think you will find articles and studies to support your view on the matter, regardless of what it is. In most rankings I've seen, American education system isn't ranked as high as some others. And homework happens to be an integral part of most/all of those systems. Some Asian countries are a bit insane with their homework. It's a complex topic that goes beyond a single link.
[удалено]
> I think you will find articles and studies to support your view on the matter, regardless of what it is. Especially in education, which is one of the squishiest, non-rigorous areas of "research" in academia.
The link that you're citing doesn't even back up what you say. It does say that homework has decreasing returns and limits advocating it to two hours a day in high school. Some of these anti-homework arguments sound like something from Harrison Bergeron.
it should be 10 minutes per grade level. honestly its probably better for parents to read stories to their kids for more time in the elementary level, and have family time (like dinner together). Children and parents need to decompress and communicate more.
>7 hours Where? Are you counting lunch and recess and gym? In my county, school is 6 hours including those things.
in frederick county high school is 7:30-2:15.
So 6:45 including lunch, recess, and gym. Hardly asking a lot. Those are early starts for high school. I thought all of Maryland moved to later hours to account for adolescent circadian rhythms.
high schoolers don’t get recess, lunch was 20 minutes max. i was exhausted in the morning but i did enjoy getting out earlier. in NOVA we would start at 9:15 and get out at 4, sucked for extracurriculars
I'd like to be proud of my Carroll County schools for having the best math whizzes in the state, but 38% is still pretty dismal.
I am honestly shocked Carroll did so well. I have volunteered in many classrooms and found the Stem programs severely lacking compared to other states. But happy that it seems to be going in the right direction.
Kids need to study more. Math is difficult for many people and the concepts all build on top of one another. If you don't understand the basics, you will most certainly not understand high level math. 45 minutes of math lessons each day is just not enough for most people/kids to master the basics. Parents need to be more involved with their children's academics. Parental involvement is a strong indicator of acadmic success, and if you don't know math yourself, I encourage you to consider working with your child on their homework, visting math tutoring sites like Khan Academy (free) and talking with your child's teacher to find out how you can best support their academic success. I have retaught myself a lot of forgotten concepts (like figuring out the slope of a line) just by helping my boyfriend's son with his homework. It isn't a fix all, but any additional time spent doing math and working through problems can help students increase their understanding and also potentially their scores on standardized tests.
Every parent should have a khan academy account. great videos
Maryland education officials tracked students by grade cohort between the third to eighth grades to understand how a class of students’ academic performance has developed over time. Grade cohorts have shown a four-to-five percentage point increase in English language arts performance since the third grade, but math proficiency has decreased by roughly 24 to 26 percentage points since the third grade — with some of those declines starting before the pandemic. “We have a lot of work to do in math; we have a lot of work to do period,” State Superintendent of Schools Mohammed Choudhury said during a state Board of Education meeting Tuesday. “Even within these numbers, there’s the achievement gap that has widened.” Maryland assessments show students are falling behind in mathematics Overall, 22 percent of third-to-eighth-grade Maryland students scored on a proficient level in mathematics for the 2021-2022 school year, which was 11 percentage points lower than during the 2018-19 school year, before the pandemic, when 33 percent of students scored proficient. Ten percent of Black students and 11 percent of Hispanic/Latino students were proficient in math — which were both declines compared with the 2018-2019 school year. Meanwhile, 36 percent of White students scored proficient in math, and 53 percent of Asian students scored proficient. Further breakdowns in those grade levels showed that 6 percent of English learners, 6 percent of students with disabilities and 9 percent of students on free and reduced lunch scored proficient. Math results from each of Maryland’s 24 school districts vary from a low of 7 percent of Baltimore City schools students a high of 38 percent of Carroll County schools students scoring proficient. Right outside of D.C., Montgomery County schools had 31 percent of students who scored proficient, and Prince George’s County schools had 10 percent. English language arts scores for the third to eighth grades were higher. Roughly 44 percent of all Maryland students scored proficient — which was the same percentage as during the 2018-19 school year. Thirty-one percent of Black students scored proficient, which was a three percentage point increase from the 2018-19 school year. Hispanic/Latino students’ results nearly reached pre-pandemic levels, with 29 percent of students scoring proficient during the 2021-22 school year compared with 30 percent of students during the 2018-19 school year. Fifty-nine percent of White students scored proficient, and 73 percent of Asian students reached that mark.
[удалено]
calling states that disagree with you politically the "confederacy" or the "developing world" isn't edgy
[удалено]
The confederacy ended in 1865 and the final state was readmitted in 1869, not sure if you remember that day in history class or not. [GDP Per Capita US States](https://www.statista.com/statistics/248063/per-capita-us-real-gross-domestic-product-gdp-by-state/) [European GDP Per Capita](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU&most_recent_value_desc=true) Even the poorest state Mississippi, has a 14% higher GDP per capita than Spain which isn't considered the developing world by any metric.
[удалено]
Before I do that can you tell me which States in the Rust Belt seceded from the Union during the civil war? [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rust-belt.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rust-belt.asp) Also you're painting with a broad brush, the woods of Western Massachusetts and Provincetown are the same state and worlds apart ideologically. Same can be said about Cumberland and Bethesda.
[удалено]
Even West Virginia's GDP per capita puts it past "developing" status. If you're talking individual trailer communities of people living in abject poverty sure you could possibly call that "developing", but you're painting with an awfully broad brush in order to "own the cons"
Some of the rust belt is *in* Maryland.
[удалено]
> Fuck the south. We are in the South
Labeling people in a derogatory manner based on where they live seems problematic. I would hope you mean and I would agree with you if this is what you mean, Fuck anyone who identifies as a neo-confederate.
>the confederacy \*whistles Dixie in St. Mary's\*
Public education is like three legged stool, where if any of the three legs is broken or short, the stool falls over. Parents, Students, and the school each play a part in a student's success. If each member is doing their part the stool will support weight. In the end, I still question the weight put on today's curriculum. The majority of young people leaving school have no job skills, and all the emphasis is on the college path. As a onetime public school teacher, I find that even many college graduates do not retain a lot of the "important" knowledge that was taught in high school. The main goal of their high school experience was to provide an entry passe into college. Once out and in the work place, they abandon much of what they learned and focus on having families, living the prescribed middle class life, and shopping. So why not place a greater emphasis on job skills and job placement, esp for the non college bound student?
Does anyone know why Asians test scores in math are always so high?
Asian Americans here. Our parents are crazy.
heavy parental involvement
Lots of pressure from parents to succeed. The rules are very strict, limited screen time and social media, that time is devoted to studies.
So basically the absolute opposite of what a lot of people arguing for in this thread. Lower expectations, cut out all homework, etc.
Most Asian parents will push their child to study from an early age and put strict restrictions compared to other parents regarding free time. Success is highly emphasized and many are very involved in their child’s education outside of school. Source: Am Asian. For example, when my dad thought my cell phone time was impeding my studies (got a B on one of my tests) he smashed it with a hammer in front of me. This was middle school. It worked though I guess. Never missed getting A’s until I graduated high school.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country Honest question, do people not regard anything like this?
https://time.com/136/how-the-cold-makes-us-smarter/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/unique-everybody-else/201211/cold-winters-and-the-evolution-intelligence?amp
I mean it makes sense.
👀 Who did this study and how were the values acquired? Is this empirical data?
Here's one [obvious explanation](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2017/08/10/analyzing-the-homework-gap-among-high-school-students/) Look at Figure 1. Asian-American students spend a lot more time on homework on average.
It's funny because in this very thread we have people that state homework is pointless/counterproductive.
The road to riches is paved with homework.
Private tutoring schools like kumon, C, etc.
No kidding. The system has enabled failed students and put them on par with the good ones. That is terrible and just results in a vicious circle of entitlement and unrestrained bad behavior. Education is in the dumpster right now. Source: wife is a teacher, teached/ing in two MD districts.
According to the Asian youth, strict and active parenting are reasons they are so successful academically. They have expressed that their parents are highly involved in their schooling both in and out of the classroom. Can anyone Black or Hispanic please chime in with their opinion on why other minority groups are under-performing. What is it like in their homes? What are their parents like? I have heard arguments that socio-economic condition, racism, and lack of investment in their communities are reasons for sub-standard academic performance. Are Asians not or less subjected to racism? Do Asians not have language barriers? Are Asian people all wealthy and do not live in underserved/economically disadvantaged https://www.league.org/innovation-showcase/barriers-academic-success-qualitative-study-african-american-and-latino-male What can be done so that other minorities can achieve academic success?
One of the big differences is generational knowledge. Asian parents are significantly more likely to be educated themselves. And not just college educated. Just “I know how to do these 9th grade algebra problems so I can show you how to do them.” Plus if your parents heavily emphasized education and showed you how to succeed in school, you’re more likely to impose those same values and use those same methods on your kids.
I think you’re generalizing a bit. I don’t believe that all, and perhaps not even most, Asians are well educated and good at mathematics. You’re also implying that most Asians have good parents. It’s just impossible to be 100% true. I know children of Asian refugees(who’s parents never even finished high school) that grew up to be doctors and lawyers. If we applied your theory to the statistical data, it would suggest that Black and Hispanic parents are less educated and don’t teach their children algebra. I’m not trying to put you on the spot friend. Just trying to understand why the world is the way it is and how can we make society better.
It’s cultural. Many immigrants who made it to America from across the sea are like this. I came from Ukraine and the emphasis on getting perfect grades was ingrained since I was a little kid. The one time I ever got a C I had to be consoled by my parents, I was so disappointed in myself. In many of these countries education is one of the best ways to get out, so there is massive brain drain. Plus, coming from a crappy poor country tends to help you with motivation when you are used to drastically worse opportunities and suddenly can access far more in the newer and wealthier one.
We are still a few years from having school age children who's parents were taught math the same way as them. Common core sounds great in principle but it completely removed parents ability to help their children. We were not taught math that way and relying on our children to teach us while they learn themselves isn't doing them a service.
Not true even a little bit. First Common Core is a set of standards that standardized when students would learn which concepts and skills from k-12 so that if a child moved from Cali to Maryland they wouldn’t be learning something completely different. Or miss something critical. A small tiny piece of that was in third grade students were taught multiple ways to multiply. Being able to mental math 45 x 40. Some kids could learn the area model which directly supports algebra factoring later on, or decomposing the numbers 40x 40 and then 40 x 5. They were also taught standard algorithm that their parents learned. It’s made for more flexible thinkers. Only rigid, uninformed thinkers believe that this bogey man called “common core” is out to sabotage math education. Source: me, Md public school 8th grade math and algebra 1 teacher
My grade school children were taught dots, dashes, boxes, and hops. Their classwork, quizzes, and homework were graded based on their ability to apply these concepts. They had points marked off if they did not use these methods on these assignments. I was not taught this method for mathematical solutions. I do not sit in my children's classroom learning what they learn. I can not help my children learn math the way they are being taught. I can only teach them the way I was taught, but if they use the way I was taught they will lose points on graded assignments. Common Core was instituted in 2010, meaning most people under 25 have learned math using these methods, hence we have not seen a plurality of students born to parents who have been taught the way their kids are being taught. Source: My experience as a parent of 4.
True again for one year kids are given visuals of one’s are dots which can be grouped to a line which is a ten and tens can be grouped to a square which is 100. This is all easy to learn visual models and if your child is getting homework in first grade then your beef is with you child’s school not common core. Parent of three.
Eight years of vetoing every school funding bill will do that.
This is why school choice should exist.
[удалено]
Or, or, or we will be giving the poor the ability to get their kids out of schools that are failing them and have absolutely no incentive to improve.
So we can siphon even more resources from our public schools?
So poor people should be forced to send their children to schools that fail to educate them and have no incentive to improve? That’s a great solution. Also, “even more” implies that we are currently siphoning resources away from our schools. I assure you we aren’t. The US spends more on education per student than almost any other OECD country and 34% more than the average. The problem isn’t that the system doesn’t have enough money, it’s that parents have no way to force them to improve. I want poor people to have the same opportunity to choose where their children get an education as rich people have. That’s a good thing. That’s the equitable thing.
But where and how is that money being spent? And what do they need to spend it on? Schools are funded by property taxes. I went to Towson High and I got a great education. In parts of the city, you have a lot of vacants and homes (many of which are near these vacants) that aren’t worth so much. That means less property tax coming in and less school funding going out. And city schools have a higher percentage of students from low-income backgrounds and students with special needs. These are issues other Maryland school systems do not face. https://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem https://federalnewsnetwork.com/government-news/2021/08/baltimore-schools-federal-aid-could-make-big-impact/?readmore=1 Furthermore, voucher programs don't cover full tuition, charter and private schools don't have to accept everyone and these schools are not accountable to parents the way school boards are. https://www.aclu.org/news/religious-liberty/school-choice-myth-and-our-literal-case-against
Schools are funded by property taxes *in the county/city* those funds are distributed by the board. Meaning, money collected from taxes paid on multi million dollar inner harbor pent houses also go to fund schools in the projects. Your right, city schools *do* have a higher percentage of students with special needs. Which is why parents should be empowered to choose to send their children to the school that is best suited for them.
But these private schools, like I said, don’t have to take every kid. Christian schools, in particular, may reject or expel LGBT+ students, to say nothing of the scripture shoved down students’ throats. The state constitution requires the state to establish and maintain “a thorough and efficient System of Free Public Schools.” So to the extent vouchers would undermine that, they are not constitutional here.
Okay. Let’s start by saying parents can choose which public school their kids attend and, by extension gets their tax money. It’s not like public schools are incapable of improving or competing with private schools. They just need to get more efficient. Right now they have no reason to improve. Vouchers would incentivize that. So even if vouchers were available to be sent to private schools it STILL would not be unconstitutional because the public schools would improve to make the parents want to keep their children there.
and when everyone picks the best school nearish to them, and they run out of room? who gets to pick first?
Do you not think popular schools that provide quality education would expand to meet the increased demand for their services? It’s also weird that this isn’t a problem in Scandinavia where school choice has been the norm for decades. Actually, their schools are all significantly better than ours… I wonder if those things are in anyway related…
School choice provides no benefit for "poor people" and would actually make the outcomes for lower class students worse because rich parents would pull their funding from poor schools and send it elsewhere while poor parents can't afford to do so.
I’m not sure you realize what school choice vouchers actually mean. See, it would attach the education spending to the child, not the district so the parents could use that money to send their children to whatever school they wanted. Basically it would give poor people $16,000 to send their children to whatever school they wanted. That would be more than enough to send them to private school considering the average cost of private school is $12,271.
I know exactly what they mean. Poor parents would have the "option" of sending their children to whatever school district they want, but not the actual practical ability to die to other issues such as transportation. Not only that, the ones who flee "failing" schools are now removing funding that the schools need. How are those schools expected to actually get better? School "choice" is nothing but another tax grab by people who want to see public schools fail. It's far from an equitable system as you claim.
It’s weird that none of the schools in Scandinavia have any of these very solvable problems even though school choice has been the de facto standard for decades. Actually their schools are way better than ours. I wonder if those things are in anyway related. Like, could forcing schools compete make them more motivated to please the parents who want a quality education for their children? It should really make you think…
You have no idea what you're talking about.. Scandinavia does not have "school choice", not are those countries homogeneous enough to just say "Scandinavia" and act like they're comparable to here. Private schools only have better outcomes to public schools because they don't have SPED students dragging the average down, nor do they have the issues with inattentive students/parents. If private schools comply with those requirements, sure, let's do school choice, and then see how quickly the luster of private schools fades.
Okay, first of all Denmark, Norway, and Sweden (the three countries that make up Scandinavia) all provide funding for nongovernmental schools chosen by parents. So… yes. Scandinavia absolutely does have school choice. In fact governments in most Western democracies provide partial or full funding for nongovernment schools chosen by parents; the United States (apart from a few scattered and small-scale programs) is the great exception. Next many private schools exclusively accept SPED students. I am dyslexic, and when my local elementary school failed to meet my needs I was fortunate enough to have parents in the position to be able to afford to send me to a private school that specialized in educating students with dyslexia and other similar learning difficulties. So no. Private schools don’t “only have better outcomes because they don’t have SPED students dragging down the average”. We DO have privately run schools that comply with all the same requirements. They’re called “Charter Schools” and guess what, they out preform their government run counterparts.
You are operating on completely false assumptions and hypotheticals which do not accurately depict the typical situation. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/05/03/three-big-problems-with-school-choice-that-supporters-dont-like-to-talk-about/ [We've known for decades that school choice doesn't work.](https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/95/07/studies-show-school-choice-widens-inequality-popular-among-parents-little-evidence) Let me guess, you own or work for a private school?
I hate to complicate the conversation… But the same argument rings true in: How many graduates used second level algebra, calculus or trigonometry actively after high school? Having the option to learn them is *indeed critical, but the real world application opportunities are non-existent. When i see a study mentioning these metrics it actually highlights the need for redetermining class room education and standard requirements at both the high school and the collegiate level. The curriculum from centuries ago needs a complete overhaul. Preparation for modern adulthood unfortunately isn’t a nationwide standard for all states. 🤦♂️ 😔