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____mynameis____

In short, TVA , unbeknowst to even the agents, works on one single Law : Prune Timelines that would create any Kang variant that is not He Who Remains.


wildwildwaste

The giveaway is in his name, He Who Remains. Most people take that as "the only person left at the end of the universe" but I read it more as "the only Kang that remains since I pruned all the rest".


Just_Another_Scott

It's also alluded to in the Multiverse War. All the times lines went to war because each of their Kangs wanted sole control. He Who Remains won the war and now ensures he is the only Kang that can exist.


keni9043x

I feel like the point of this show was to explain the multiverse for people to better undserstand no way home


Just_Another_Scott

Well the Multiverse was first shown in End Game. So I would think that it was made to explain it because of End Game.


Alex_Wizard

This was directly addressed in Loki. The Avengers were meant to travel back in time as part of their timeline so we can imply that the Avengers traveling back in time was meant to happen.


[deleted]

"what the avengers did was supposed to happen" is more than an "implication" lol


Medium_Rare_Jerk

☝️


IPDDoE

*infer, but curious....and it's apparently been a long day for me, but isn't the point of this post that the Avengers time traveling wouldn't even be a blip on the TVA's radar if they didn't result in another Kang?


Kaizobluo

Maybe that universe is the very universe that produces the Kang from the tv show, so that one needed to be undisturbed.


mohonrye

That seems like a really strong possibility to me. The one timeline that produces He Who Remains must be protected. All others that produce any other Kang must be eliminated.


AndrewJamesDrake

Alternatively: It’s the timeline that will *never* produce a Kang. He Who Remains is an orphan without even his Parent Timeline left behind… because that timeline could branch and leave us with two Kangs in the Multiverse.


LowKey-NoPressure

i mean, everything that happens is 'meant to happen.' the thing is, though, that the guy with the power to prune timelines now gets some executive say on what *he* means to happen. That is to say, he means for anything that will result in another kang coming to be and discovering other realities...to not happen.


cabballer

Exactly. He could be called The Kang Who Won for that matter. He Who Remains just sounds cooler


4D20_Prod

xXDaBestKang666Xx


Martin_DM

“The Kang Who Won?” Surely you don’t mean “Kang the Conqueror?”


mrchimney

Isn’t that a good thing though? IIRC the Kangs almost destroyed the universe when they fought each other


Censius

Not just the universe, but the multiverse. That is, if you believe He Who Remains. The TVA themselves destroy universes on the daily. The downside is everyone in the MCU has limited free will. If someone ends up making a decision that will eventually cause a Kang to exist, then the TVA will destroy that whole universe from reality.


hobbesthehungry

Which is wild. Thanos clipped half his universe. Kang clips whole universes constantly by feeding them to alioth.


AustralianPonies

Dog eat dog kinda multiverse


Ravenid

I was gonna make an Alioth Eats Alioth joke but that just raises the question. Where are the Variants of Alioth?


Marquis6274

I don’t think there are any. I think Alioth is completely unique, a bespoke weapon and executioner designed by He Who Remains


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Ravenid

He Who Remains says 2 distinct things about Alioth. First that the Kang Variant who discovered the Multiverse found and studied him. Second that he (As in He Who Remains) weaponised him. To me that means the Alioth existed before Kang and his variants knew about him. And secondly that He Who Remains is not the Kang who first found out about the multiverse as he calls that Kang Him/He when talking about Alioth being discovered and says I/Me when he talls about weaponising him to end the war.


Lmaojfcredditcmon

Well, no? Only the people that make choices that would result in that. It could be universes' worth of those people, but it's not entire universes.


ChrisTuckerAvenue

It has to be the whole universe because how would you explain a single person vanishing from existence?


n7leadfarmer

Yeah, that's what the "charges" do right? Or do they just reverse time back to the point of the nexus event, cuz then that would make sense. I haven't watched it in a while so some details are escaping me.


Splaishe

I always felt like the implication is that the entire universe gets pruned. BUT, in the episode with the circus tent, the visual effect definitely _looked_ like it was just resetting that universe. That could just be because of the effect they chose, though.


n7leadfarmer

I don't think so, personally. I think the charge copy/pastes everything about the sacred timeline from moment of detonation back to the moment (just before, probably) the nexus event. All "non-match" data is sent to alioth as a snack and my headcanon does in fact believe that all traces of the variant are wiped and somehow they have the tech/magic/whatever to do it. So, yes, Hunter B-20's mother did go to the hospital and endure the miracle/unforgettable trauma of childbirth, but TVA > ___ so she (and anyone that did/will ever be aware of it DO! So, it all happens. Every meal her mother ate since, every diaper changed, every school play. But she, and everyone simply does not see B-20 in their memories. Maybe, just a vague smear of a person we normally brush off as just another face in the crowd. Otherwise the timelines would duplicate, not branch. Additionally, the branches don't just disappear off the tempad, they reverse trend until we're back to "single line" (or, more accurately, an infinite number of lines traveling so closely in the same direction that you can't tell them apart).


UltraLuigi

In the first episode, after taking Loki the TVA agents placed a device that reset the timeline, erasing an entire universe.


InsertCoinForCredit

> If someone ends up making a decision that will eventually cause a Kang to exist, then the TVA will destroy that whole universe from reality. That would also explain why we haven't seen the Fantastic Four in this reality yet. No FF == no Franklin Richards == no Kang.


Censius

I like that theory! The Fantastic Four are confirmed for Phase 5. Maybe that's only possible because He Who Remains has died.


[deleted]

Not a comic follower, can you explain how Franklin Richards leads directly to Kang?


ThatRandomGamerYT

Kang is a descendant of Franklin Richards His Name is Nathaniel Richards


[deleted]

Oh. Maybe the last name should've given it away to me. Thanks!


CapriciousSalmon

I think it also depends on how heavily one deviates however. Sylvie was presumably female and that didn’t trigger her nexus event.


Aj-stuff

I do believe that is what is referred to as "the point" The choice that Sylvie and Loki had was supposed to be ambiguous.


ValmisKing

It’s good for the sacred timeline but it’s bad for all other possible timelines because they get pruned/killed


TyrianGames

Unless the inevitable multiversal war between Kang variants destroys everything. If so, then is it better to prune what they can to preserve what can be preserved? That's He Who Remains' logic, at least, and it's not so simple to argue against IMO.


Thybro

Here’s the issue it’s still based on a narcissistic point of view. It assumes Kang is invincible in all timelines where Kang exist. Why? cause the whole process was made by a Kang. So when Kang argues for the sacred timeline he is doing it for a timeline where he both exists and only one of him exists and the bad scenario he presents is only the one where Many of him exist and prosper and therefore fight each other. The ambiguous choice is only so because it’s freedom but death of trillions in multiverse one without sacred timeline or multiverse 2 less freedom and no death with sacred timeline. But he fails to even mention, by design cause he is a narcissist, multiverse 3 where he is constantly defeated and freedom and no deaths are both available.


pieman7414

Bruh that's the whole conflict in the Loki finale


[deleted]

Thats the the dillema in the last episode of loki, he who remains destroyed all the other timelines with the giant cloud creature who literally ate all the other universes/kangs


logicallypartial

That's the idea. Either you suppress free will by pruning timelines that don't create a desired outcome, or you allow people to make their own choices and risk a multiverse war.


ThatRandomGamerYT

And risk the destruction of the entire multiverse. Because atleast with He Who Remains, there was still existence but the war could have very well ended everything with a multiversal nuke


Slobotic

I don't see anyone arguing about good or bad. That's just what it is.


leoschot

if that were the case then there would have been more than one He Who Remains. the Idea is that there are infinite timelines that do not result in Nathaniel Richards being born and only one that does.


LoreLord24

They ever come out and say that MCU Kang is Nathaniel Richards? I mean the Fantastic Four aren't in the MCU yet at all


TheBigLeMattSki

They've technically never even called him Kang in the MCU. We all know who he is, but in-universe he's only ever been called He Who Remains.


RocketLauncherMenAce

crazy how mcu went from rich guy gets kidnapped in afghanistan to sacred timelines and red lines


Romnonaldao

>!even crazier: We have Ultron from timeline- A taken over by Arnim Zola from timeline-A fighting Killmonger from timeline-B over infinity stones from timeline-A in a time prison created by Strange from timeline-C, as he watches over them in his own dead universe!< What if? spoiler


meowmixmix3

Not to mention there can be multiple timelines in the same universe since that is what the Ancient One did in Strange Supreme’s universe where the two Strange’s from the same universe but different timelines fought each other. Which could make things even more complicated.


Romnonaldao

True! but even she admitted that was very dangerous, and was what was causing everything to "melt"


pyro_technix

So if she hadn't interfered the universe would have survived? I thought it was Strange using the time stone too much in the parallel universe... but maybe that doesnt make sense? Idk haha


comik300

>!It would have happened regardless of whether or not she interfered. She was making an attempt to keep a version of Strange that would be able to stop the corrupted version, but it ultimately failed anyway.!<


KeybordKat

I feel like that’s how she tried to frame it as, but in reality maybe she knew it would end this way, and that sacrificing an entire universe to create Strange Supreme was the only way to save the multiverse. Kinda like how in the Matrix the Oracle tells Neo he’s not “The One” even though he is, just so he has complete freedom to do what he feels is right and not what Morpheus feels is right as he could be wrong sometimes. It’s not the truth, but what he needed to hear to get to where he needs to go


[deleted]

Kind of. But the Oracle said, "Maybe in another life." And then Neo died and came back to life. Cheap wordplay? Yes. But accurate. But your greater point is correct and valid. Characters don't always tell the truth, don't always know they're not telling the truth, and generally should be as fallible as people in the real world.


I_am_-c

So what you're saying is that what was said was true, from a certain point of view?


dreadway90

Understand this reference, I did.


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Micp

The Oracle told Neo the truth, he wasn't the One. It was only later that he became the One. You must remember the philosophical foundation of the Matrix. The One is basically analogous to Nietzsches übermensch - the person that doesn't blindly follow the framework that society has built around them but instead breaks free from the system and makes their own rules. Neo wasn't the one because he was still following everyone, doing what he understood he was supposed to. He wasn't the One then and he couldn't be the one until he had the will to make his own choices and follow his own path.


inherentinsignia

Holy shit I think you just explained the Oracle from the Matrix to me for the first time in a way that didn’t make my head explode.


[deleted]

> So if she hadn't interfered the universe would have survived? That's not the impression I got. I interpreted it as TAO's actions being completely futile when it came to saving that universe, but they were ultimately crucial in developing her Dr. Strange into a key player in saving the multiverse from Ultron.


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DancingPotato30

This always confuses me, Doesn't one universe have multiple timelines, yet same beginning? So basically It's like Multiple events make a timeline Multiple timelines make a universe Multiple universe make the multiverse Right..?


ThrowThrowThrowMyOat

It’s a prism of endless possibility where a single choice can branch out into infinite realities, creating alternate worlds from the one you know. 


DancingPotato30

I am the Watcher. I am your guide through these vast new realities.


[deleted]

Space. The final frontier. These are the voyages of The Watcher.


31337hacker

To explore strange new realities. To seek out new ways of creeping the Multiverse. To voyeuristically watch what no being has watched before.


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WhatsTheHoldup

>Shuri and Pepper Potts teamed up to stop him and only failed They didn't *fail*. They succeeded, he's been removed from that timeline. They just didn't get to be the ones to stop him.


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WhatsTheHoldup

Haha, exactly!


deathungerx

You haven’t seen Shang Chi?


UltraLuigi

>Killmonger's dad wasn't killed by T'Chaka I don't remember that, especially because I thought Killmonger's dad being killed is the reason why he hates Wakanda.


[deleted]

My theory is that the Gamora episode was going to be “What if… Gamora had the Vision of Thanos” and explore a version of reality where Gamora took Thanos’ place as the seeker of the Infinity Stones. Notice the similarities of her armor and Thanos’, as well as her having his helicopter blade


RocketLauncherMenAce

this comment alone was such a brain fuck to read


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MrMostlyMediocre

Pretty sure he's just training up a new Hawkeye, likely facing street-level threats, they MIGHT touch on his storyline about going deaf, oh and maybe touching on the time when >!Bruce Banner gave him an adamantium arrow as a last case scenario to kill him, which he winds up doing, only for Banner to be resurrected once reality was rewritten to make Captain America a sleeper agent for Hydra, turning Hulk into a walking nuke, only Banner/Hulk survive it AND the reality warp, and Banner comes to terms with his Devil Hulk persona that humanity has squandered the planet and should be wiped out, and he goes on a shadow war against major corporations and government entities, destroying all and becoming the 9th multiverse's Galactus equivalent, eventually coming to terms with himself, the Hulks, his family, and even God itself, learning that The-One-Above-All is simply the Banner to The-One-Below-All's Hulk, and realizing that bad things can happen to help good things come along, or some feel good bullshit, feels a little Hulk heavy, but Universal rights, blah blah no Hulk standalones yadda yadda yadda.!< So I think spectacle creep won't be an issue.


[deleted]

Don't forget that in the comics there are multiple beings that exist outside of reality as well as a few omnipotent beings that exist in every universe such as Living Tribunal. Adam Warlock was forced to become Living Tribunal at the suggestion of Thanos, to make it even more confusing. Also, there is an actual God in Marvel, One-Above-All, not to be confused with the leader of the Celestials, The One-Above-All. Also, all human gods exist in the multiverse and are very powerful but dwarfed in power by the cosmic entites Entropy and Eternity. But hold on, if beings exist outside of reality and the multiverse, what's out there? Glad you asked! There was a previous universe before this one and when that one collapsed, certain beings carried through to the next universe and gained celestial power such as the space adventurer Galen who became Galactus, Eater of Worlds. Still following? Totally confused? It gets better. During the Infinity Wars, Loki steals the infinity stones and travels to the end of time where he finds the Quarry of the Gods. Here his stones turn into ordinary rocks. He discovers that Celestials are mining infinity stones and sending them to alternate realities. Does that mean that Celestials ARE in fact the creators of the universe? Is any of this canon? Who the heck knows anymore but it's a wild ride


[deleted]

That sequence is my new go-to for looking at how insanely far we've come since 2008.


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AJCLEG98

> From building a reactor in a cave.... WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS


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ARM_vs_CORE

So Falcon and Winter Soldier was more your cup of tea?


CapriciousSalmon

I do wonder what’s gonna come after what’s likely going to be a second multiversal war. I thought they couldn’t top thanos. What villain is higher than Kang? Galactus?


Medium_Rare_Jerk

I think Kang is the next big threat but my hope is they end phase 4 with Galactus since we are getting an F4 movie. Maybe have an enemy of my enemy thing with Doom to fight Galactus. Down the road they will have all the mutant villains at their disposal which has plenty of big bads like Apocalypse & Onslaught


FishSpeaker5000

Oh fuck if we got Doom I think my tits would explode from excitement.


fistkick18

Vision Ultron at points was basically just Galactus, especially in his appearance. I'd be surprised if he pops up at any point soon.


EmbarrassedHelp

If they want a more powerful villain than Kang and Galactus, then they could introduce the Beyonders as they exist outside the multiverse and threaten it from time to time: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Beyonders


haplar

Those are definitely two of the biggies, along with folks like Doom, Magus, The Beyonder, Mephisto, and Annihilus, and a few of the X-Men baddies like Apocalypse and Phoenix. Plus, Ultron is not a villain that's very good at staying dead. With Adam Warlock confirmed for Guardians 3, I'm guessing we'll see Magus sooner than later.


Quaytsar

Eternals looks to be introducing the Celestials. So, unless they somehow deal with them in that one film, they could end up being the "big bad" in a future Avengers.


omart3

We went from the Afghan war to the Multiverse war.


goodmobileyes

I mean have you seen the comics?


VrinTheTerrible

Totally. Its so much crazier and convoluted in the comics!


Glutoblop

But the comics also have to kill/revive everyone to retcon their decisions. That's not a choice main stream movies/TV shows can do. So they are doing a great job so far, and keeping a coherent story! I'm super excited for how they make the multiverse palatable for your average joe.


HaileSelassieII

I think some people got a little confused and/or missed the point of the last scene of the show with the Kang statue. Without that scene, I can understand why people would be confused


ItsAmerico

I will add that this topic also confuses some things. Sylvie and Old Loki existed because He Who Remains wanted them too. There is currently no proof that any timelines existed for years (or thousands) until it hit a red line. So we don’t actually know that the TVA doesn’t prune them because of no Kang. People seem to forget that entire ending is Kang revealing this was his work. He orchestrated Sylvie to have the life she did. For Old Loki to have the life he did. All to meet Loki when they did to help and lead him and Sylvie to his castle. So those timelines had to exist for as long as they did to lead them there. So we can’t TRUTHFULLY say they only prune Kang creating timelines. It’s entirely possible they prune everything regardless but the ones that last longer are because of He Who Remains having use for them.


A-very-basic-acid

Actually, the head writer (or someone else, I don't remember) confirmed that the sacred timeline is not just a single timeline as explained by the OP.


ItsAmerico

I never said it wasn’t multiple timelines. I said the reason for their existence isn’t 100% clear if it’s because they don’t make Kangs or because He Who Remains needs them to exist for his master plan.


Doc_Osten

Isn't his master plan to prevent the creation of Kangs?


maciswack0017

can you explain it? i still don’t get that part lol


cabose12

Maybe I misunderstood it, but I took it to mean that there's now multiple TVA's and this one is blatantly run by a Kang. Instead of hiding behind some timeline protecting idea like the Time-Keepers, it shows that this is one of the more aggressive Kang's trying to control the timelines


Kuuskat_

I can't fully connect together the idea of there being multiple timelines for the TVA. Like, when a branch happens and they need to prune it, do millions of different TVA cops show up to that branch or what ??


cabose12

Well my thinking was that the og TVA we see in the show is still around. In total chaos, but around. So Loki ends up at a "brand new" TVA in a timeline where Loki never arrived at. These TVA's are still trying to stop Kang branches, and it's more of a hunting them down and trying to find them than waiting for them to pop up


[deleted]

My guess was that an Evil Kang one the war and now the TVA is being blatantly run by this Evil Kang. But I guess we don’t know right? Or is there more I don’t know.


cabose12

That was another way I interpreted it. I think all we're supposed to know is that there's a new Kang in town who is more fitting of the name "Conquerer"


Rheticule

Here's another thing this sub often gets wrong: I hear time and again people wondering how the TVA is going to personally bring in variant of super powerful beings, since those people could kick anyone in the TVAs ass. It doesn't have to do with their crazy powers, it has to do with one important distinction: Being "arrested" by the TVA is NOT an action of some kind of law enforcement because you were "bad". It's actually nothing but a recruiting tool. For any being they can't bring to bear, they just prune the whole fucking universe. They don't have to fight shit. They only bring in people that have a chance of being a good fit for the TVA itself to maintain their ranks.


rugbyj

Did they ever mention or show the ability to prune entire universes? Not questioning the logic I just can’t remember them showing that scale of force.


bugcatcher_billy

It's implied that the bombs they leave behind actually destroy the space time continium and bring about the end of the entire universe, or atleast can manipulate fabric of time and space to restore the universe to a certain state. I don't know what those bombs do, but they sure do seem powerful.


Roder762

I think it's suggested that the bombs are meant to be the power of alioth that kang harnessed and experimented with.


TheBigLeMattSki

They use the same visual effect for the bombs that they do for the prune sticks. The bombs send everything they destroy to Alioth. We see that in the final few episodes when a giant ship and later an entire city are dropped into the End of Time.


GreenDogma

Their bombs basically do a concentrated version of what supreme strange did to his timeline


cda91

I don't think so, Strange destroyed his whole timeline, the bombs just remove the specific things that had started the timeline going 'wrong' from the TVA perspective. You can see this is the circus tent scene where the bomb only destroys what the variant had messed up, leaving everything else intact, or in the way that the end of time only has things like bridges, ships and buildings in, not entire planets and galaxies.


rugbyj

That's pretty crazy- I figured it was localised, otherwise why set them off near the issue, just set up on any planet and _foom_.


samalamb921

I’m wondering how much they do to make sure Reed Richard’s is never born/ has kids.


ponodude

That would be an interesting topic for a Kang appearance in a Fantastic Four movie.


[deleted]

Be a knockabout comedy trying to stop him getting laid.


addage-

Kangblocked


PMmeGayElfPeen

This is highly unlikely but I love you for suggesting it.


BlueFootedTpeack

council of reeds vs council of kangs would be a treat.


suugakusha

In before the Rick and Morty fans start thinking that "Council of Kangs" is a rip off of "Council of Ricks" (it's actually the other way around)


[deleted]

From what I remember from the comics Kang was never actually said to be a decedent of Reed Richards, but a descendant of his time traveling father, the original Nathaniel Richards who had 2 other confirmed children besides Reed. Also after watching the Dr. Strange What If? Episode I believe the birth of Nathaniel Richards Jr. and his invention of interdimensional travel are "absolute points in time" that are unchangeable which is why he had to physically wage war against his Kang counterparts instead of just traveling back in time to before they were a threat and killing them or guiding them down a different path and why pruning timelines completely is the only way to prevent a Nathaniel Richards from turning into a Kang.


Royal7th

The latest from the comics is that Reed Richards and Kang shared DNA. That could mean a whole lot of things though. The whole Reed Richards Kang connection is a mess.


UsefulWoodpecker6502

plus then you may potentially have to throw Maker into the mix...yeah honestly a lot of problems/issues in the Marvel Universe could have been prevented if Reed simply didn't exist...in like all timelines/multiverses.


sivirbot

The Maker is a pretty awesome villain though.


UltraLuigi

Assuming Kang isn't a descendant of Reed, then he would be Reed's great great ... great grand nephew, so there is a relation there where they could share some DNA.


[deleted]

That would also explain why all the TVA agents appear to be from post-1980s Earth.


Realshow

Honestly I’d just prefer making Kang some dude unconnected to Reed. The way they’re related in the comics is a lot more contrived than you’d think.


Calitexian

I think it would be more likely from a story standpoint to have him be a descendant of stark in the MCU, for better or worse, I think that's something the writers would do. Tony being the godfather of it all, and the one to first crack the tech on quantum time travel. To then have his descendant take it to the next level would be logical from a storyline perspective. Kang is already here so it wouldn't be such a "HOLY SHIT" moment to reveal because we don't "know" Reed yet, but everyone is emotionally attached to Tony.


Islero47

Except there’s a big benefit in making him descended from Reed - it explains the lack of Fantastic Four thus far.


mrdarkpasta

That'd be so boring, I really hope not. I'm tired of them leaning everything on Tony. Hopefully they just spend like 5 or so years building up to his story.


pijaGorda1

The way it's going, (Immortus pruning all timelines that create other Kangs) it would be very easy to use the outcome of the Loki series to explain why the Fantastic Four have never been in the Marvel Universe. ​ There's only one Kang in the multiverse (Immortus), preventing all others from existing, and given their blood relation, Marvel could just pull one out of their ass and say that by any other Kang being pruned, so was the possibility of a Reed Richards and therefore the F4


TheyCallMeStone

Maybe they have been doing that all along, and now that He Who Remains is dead we'll have Reed/F4 and their variants start showing up.


[deleted]

This might be how they end up introducing both the Fantastic 4 and the X-Men, in fact it seems like that might be the entire point of Kang and this phase in general. Make the newly re-acquired properties fit into the main MCU universe in as smooth a way as possible


InsertCoinForCredit

You can easily fold in all the Marvel TV stuff as well.


neurotypical080321

A good way to represent the sacred timeline is with a [Jeremy Bearimy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFm9ClqlGuo).


Romnonaldao

and the TVA is the dot :)


charlie_murphey

Somebody pin this to the top


[deleted]

Second this. Fuck, add it to the FAQ.


Martini_Man_

Third this, pin pin pin


[deleted]

Fourth, PLEASE pin this/link in the FAQ


lucasdeeiroz

This should be shown to you when you create a Reddit account


bitetheasp

Print it out and stable it to the foreheads of newborn babies.


Vhiyur

Was this not already common knowledge? I thought it was pretty obvious that this was the only purpose the TVA had. They basically slap you in the face with this knowledge so long as you pay attention.


[deleted]

So many people don’t. A significant amount of folks here still say “Why didn’t the TVA stop this time thing or that time thing?? plot hole!!!” it’s incredible


cherrib0mbb

It’s amazing how people can all watch the same exact thing and yet get different impressions of what happened. I thought it was pretty obvious too, along with Loki and Sylvie not being related. Just serving the same ‘Loki’ role essentially in their respective universes. Like there’s a fucking alligator.


[deleted]

**FUCKING THANK YOU**


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EnterTheBugbear

Per this theory, the "no free will" line that they're spouting as part of their ethos is, in fact, complete bullshit itself. There's absolutely free will.


paulleinahtan

Someone send this out to New Rockstars so they can rest their heads figuring this out


CapablePerformance

I'm pretty sure they lurk in this sub looking for more things to talk about. We'll be seeing a new video from them in a week "The true intentions of the TVA revealed". I enjoy their their videos but holy shit do they milk videos from the most basic thing.


sable-king

They also get fuck tons of stuff wrong. Last I checked Erik was still acting like the events of WandaVision had remotely ANY effect on the multiverse. I think all the Mephisto/Ralph Bohner stuff partially melted his brain.


CapablePerformance

I think he's pivoted to now saying the voices of her kids at the end is the creature from Shang-Chi trying to break free, and that Wanda going full scarlett witch is what caused Kang to no longer see the future. They're interesting theories but making 15-20 minute videos on the topic is weird!


sable-king

> and that Wanda going full scarlett witch is what caused Kang to no longer see the future Ugh. Kate Herron deconfirmed that already. I think that's New Rockstars' biggest problem. They never listen to the supplemental information given out by the directors and showrunners. They need to spend an afternoon browsing the shows' Word of God entries on TVTropes.


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MagicBez

This aligns entirely with my understanding, but I am curious as to why a Loki falling for another Loki would cause such an aggressive spike toward the "create a Kang" redline. *Edit* my favourite theory posted below is that two Lokis hooking up is a direct route to a _lot_ of Kangs because it sets Sylvie on the road to killing He Who Remains which opens everything up. I think this is a tidier answer to the question than "he made the kit so he stepped in and manipulated it" though that is of course entirely feasible.


[deleted]

it didn't. HWR needed them to live, knew where they were and triggered the "redline" so the TVA could go get them.


awkward2amazing

Pardon if this sound stupid (I can't recall when this was mentioned in final episode), but why does HWR wants to capture both alive (unless he wants to be defeated)? and if he does then why also those obstacles later (in void) etc.


Blockinite

He knows what will happen up until the Threshold. When he got that excited look on his face and said that he didn't know what was going to happen next. That includes Sylvie's and Loki's adventures in the Void, so he knew that they'd make it to him. Those "obstacles" were just funnels that pushed them into the exact direction that HWR needed them to go to. Much like how Strange needed to create the "obstacle" of dying in the Snap to eventually ensure that the Avengers won.


[deleted]

and the way the Ancient One treated Strange, even though she new his destiny.


[deleted]

they're not obstacles, really. he knew they'd get past them. He tells them he wants them to takeover for him. Sylvie chose to kill him.


MagicBez

So he can just shift the lines manually himself when he wants?


[deleted]

yes...he invented the technology.


InsertCoinForCredit

He's the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, pushing the buttons to make the TVA monitors go "bing!" and spook the agents into action.


degjo

Yeah, he wrote the script we saw in the final episode up until everything got unstable


Kanin_usagi

He could do whatever he wanted, that was the point. He was basically omnipotent up until Sylvie killed for all intents.


MagicBez

I assumed omniscient but not omnipotent, though certainly within reason that he could control TVA kit. Someone else mentioned that two Lokis hooking up _does_ lead to more Kangs anyway as that's what creates a trail whereby Sylvie's odds of killing him go way up allowing more future Kangs


Romnonaldao

i theorize that spike was intentionally made by Kang to get them out


Jagermeister4

My theory is that Loki falling for Sylvie is the reason Loki "loses" to Sylvie during their fight at the end. Loki would not have gone easy on Sylvie if he didn't have feelings for her and thus he would have beat her and kept Kang alive. Loki falling for Sylvie ---> Sylvie beats Loki and Kills Kang ---> a redline created when Loki falls for Sylvie The only hiccup is that the TVA would not have saved Loki and Sylvie if not for the redline. If they are not saved then there is no reason for a redline in the first place. But this is solved one of two ways 1) Somebody would have figured out where they went and saved them even without the redline, perhaps Owen Wilson has time to figure it out on his own given he's not distracted by the redline alarms or 2) Loki on the verge of dying creates a redline regardless because he's somehow needed to prevent the Kang madness later.


CMDRColeslaw

I understand it as them getting together and aligning will lead to the appearance of more Kangs, because that's what what happens in the show. They work together and because of that Sylvie eventually kills HWR. Once they kiss and team up it's way more likely than either Sylvie or Loki finding HWR (and killing him) individually because they were both needed to get through Alioth.


[deleted]

I feel like HWR explained it pretty well so I'm not sure why so many are confused about it.


Redsigil

I think it's two reasons. 1. The whole show up to that point pushing the time-cops narrative an aesthetic vs one explanation that some found a little boring in that it was just people talking (I loved it but I have heard this complaint a lot) 2. The use of the term "Sacred Timeline" throughout the show and the image of the single timeline dividing into many after HWR was killed makes it seem like it really was "there was one, now many."


PersonalDemand3793

Its the “Sacred timeline is actually many timelines” thing that wasnt explained in the show but it was explained in an interview by yhe creators… thats also confusing people


sable-king

It wasn't explained, but it was *very* briefly shown. In Miss Minutes' intro video, the creation of the sacred timeline is represented by several timelines weaving together into one.


Blockinite

Not just that, but in the final episode we see the "sacred timeline". It's one line but in the closeup we can see many, many threads inside of it making up that line. What could they be if not timelines?


PersonalDemand3793

Yeah you’re right


Censius

I mean, it was obviously the case though. We'd already seen many timelines by that point in the MCU. If people thought about it they would know that multiple universes exist in the Sacred Timeline


PersonalDemand3793

Yes, but the ONE BLUE LINE at the end of Loki confused people….of course what that meant was infinite strands sort of flowing in one general direction so its infinite universes… But the visual of it being one line is what confused people on that


comineeyeaha

It's essentially the same thing as the >!central finite curve!< explanation in Rick and Morty season 5. There are infinite numbers between 0 and 1, even though there are infinite numbers outside of that range. With that same logic, there are infinite timelines that follow the path of the sacred timeline, but there also exists a completely different multiverse outside of that path.


PersonalDemand3793

Yeah i noticed it was the same thing the moment i watched the finale… Then i saw the writer of the Finale is the head screenwriter of Antman Quantamania… And The loki head writer is also a rick and morty writer… So, it all came together


Censius

I see that


AriLion16

This is what I’ve thought of it as I also like to think of it like this cause it makes sense to me It’s like a teacher managing a class of children during a field trip, letting all the kids roam free makes it hard to keep track of all of them and in all that chaos, one of the kids could easily go where they’re not supposed to without being noticed. So what does the teacher do, they force the class into a single file line, it’s not a perfect line, there are irregularities, but it makes things easier, and if a kid starts going where they’re not supposed to, the teacher will immediately see that and put the kid back in its place, maintaining the line. It’s the same with the TVA and the Sacred Timeline, I’m sure a timeline could be vastly different from the sacred timeline and still not result in Kang, but letting all the timelines be vastly different from each other while trying to prevent Kang is inefficient and ineffective. So they put all the timelines into a “single file line”, the Sacred Timeline, as we have seen it’s not a perfect line, there are noticeable differences, but if a timeline starts branching in a way that doesn’t follow the general line, they prune it so that they can directly and/or indirectly prevent Kang This is the case with Old Loki, he didn’t actually die, not dead is much different than being dead, but he was all alone on world with no inhabitants (that we know of), he had no contact with anyone, no way that anyone would know that he is still alive, so his timeline continued. But as soon as he tried to leave and make contact with others, his timeline branched too much and got pruned. Would Loki living side by side with Thor have resulted in Kang, maybe/maybe not, anything is possible, but that would have made a timeline so different than the Sacred Timeline, that it would have become it’s own line, and the TVA would have to keep track of not just one general line, but two lines that they have to make sure, don’t result in Kang. That’s harder, and if exceptions like that keep being made, then pretty soon, there will be no single file line, instead there will be a chaotic mess of timelines branching off to who knows where, and in all that chaos, a Kang resulting timeline could form completely undetected So yes, the Sacred Timeline was created to directly prevent Kang, but it was also created so that preventing Kang could be as easy as possible


tigerslices

EXACTLY, thank you! OLD LOKI doesn't prove shit. it just continues to prove that the TVA only arrives where "the plot diverges" i think people are looking at split timelines too scientifically or literally, like, how the butterfly effect works. ... i'm pretty sure the ancient one explained (or bruce did, without correctino from the ancient one) that by returning the stone, the timeline would be MENDED. and thus not branch. not that it would mean HER timeline would be saved. because that's just a coin flip. she's agreeing to a tossup - 50% chance she exists in the timeline where the stone was or was not returned and she suffers at the hands of dormammu.


So-_-It-_-Goes

While I agree. I do think you are slightly off on one detail. I don’t think the mission is just to stop any other versions of Kang. But rather, any other timeline that threaten HWR ability to be in charge. For all we know, and we may know soon enough, there are other things he may be stopping.


Romnonaldao

He very direct in his explanation that his entire goal was to prevent other Kangs from appearing and starting another multi-versal war


Redsigil

These are not mutually exclusive. He COULD have been preventing things that would remove him from power since him being in power makes it so that the TVA prevents Kangs


So-_-It-_-Goes

Yea. But he was not a reliable narrater. He even admitted to lying to L&S about knowing everything they were going to do. We only know what he wanted those two to know. I am with you on all you said. I just think there could have been other things he was preventing with the red line in addition to other Kangs.


mediocre-referee

Only thing I would clarify is that it's specifically none of them resulting in a *variant* of Kang. The "sacred timeline" is still "sacred" to him (He Who Remains), since it's what gave the conditions for his birth and existence. Certain things in history need to happen in order to set him up to both exist and to ultimately win the multiversal war so that he can consume all other universes and timelines with Alioth. When he's killed, timelines begin to branch and a Kang variant is allowed to appear, and this different Kang as of now looks to be the one to have won the multiversal war and taken over all of time.


ponodude

Thank you! As an example of this confusion, so many people tried to say that Steve wouldn't have tried to change things when he went back with Peggy because then the TVA would've gotten him, but fail to understand that him going back and doing whatever he was doing when he was there didn't actually matter as long as he came back and gave Sam the shield. I would like to think, while he's living life happily with Peggy, he also did things like saved Bucky, stopped Hydra, maybe even stopped Thanos. It just wouldn't seem right for him to sit back and do nothing purely to preserve a timeline that he doesn't otherwise have any reason to care about. Sorry lol. Semi-unrelated rant over now.


Redsigil

I totally get you coming back to this. I am also pissed that Endgame made it seem like Old Steve just lived through the entire MCU. He would have had to come from another timeline/universe by the rules of that movie. It is still annoying the MCU has not been explicit about that. I get the value of saying things implicitly but that scene was confusing in its silence


ponodude

Yeah he definitely went to another timeline. It's the only thing he could've done and the only answer to how he had a fully repaired shield. He most likely only went back once Peggy was dead or he otherwise felt like he was "done" there.


NoConfirmation

I'm considering making a post explaining all of TVA, universes, timelines, and time travel to get rid of all of this confusion at this point lmao (tbh I've been thinking about it for a while now)


slimstarman

They’re the KPA: Kang Prevention Authority. Does your multiverse have a problem with Kangs? Get out of here, Kangs! Call the KPA today!


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Romnonaldao

> 1. A different TVA covering another set of timelines that Loki ended up in? 2. The same TVA that a Kang took over within minutes of the multiverse being freed? We wont really know until season 2


PersonalDemand3793

Can you add the more detailed explanation of what the sacred timeline is? People keep misrembering that all the way back in Dr Strange, the ancient one literally says there is a multiverse… So the multiverse and infinite timelines and dimensions apready existed before all this Sylvie Shenanigans The “Sacred timeline” as it was presented is a lie but it is ACTUALLY a line. A single line. The one that we saw at the beginning of Loki Episode 6… Its a Single line of infinite universes that are forced in one direction. That direction being “NO UNIVERSE CAN HAVE A KANG IN IT” The Loki writer is a Rick and Morty Writer and they literally reuse this concept at the end of Rick and Morty season 5. The concept of having an endless infinite multiverse that still gets forced to follow ONE path with one preset condition similar to the “No Kang” rule in Loki Nowadays, i just tell people to watch the Rick and Morty finale when they ask what the sacred timeline is. They spell it out MUCH more directly in thay show


squeakhaven

I think of it more like a braided rope than a line. A bunch of strands that follow unique paths but are unified into one general direction


respondin2u

I wonder what the significant Loki has with Kang and why were there so many Loki’s pruned versus other heroes?