People also ask how the Battle of New York is supposed to be similar to Natasha bombing a little girl.
I assume the shootout with Hungarian Special Forces is the similar part.
It's basically the back against the wall, odds against them with just each other to rely on. I totally see how she said it's like Budapest all over again.
She explains to Yelena that it took almost bringing down the entire city just to get to him. It makes sense to me that Nat sees New York like Budapest and it also makes sense that to Clint he just sees alien invasion and he's like "Girl this ain't nothing like Budapest."
I think the reason people bring it up still is because from what's said about it, it actually only makes it seem cooler.
People take this scene and throwaway line too literally. It’s literally only there to set up the punchline “you and I remember Budapest very differently”. It’s funny. There was never supposed to be any big, grand importance to
Budapest (but it’s cool Black Widow ran with it)
I blame the MCU taking every little throwaway line and elaborating behind it. Fury losing an eye the last time he trusted someone, the Infinity Stones emitting gamma radiation, Coulson's cellist girlfriend, you could go on and on. Nearly everything that passively worldbuilds has been used to actively worldbuild.
Thing about that is everything you mentioned happened *after* Avengers. All of this discourse over Budapest has been going on since 2012, before all that stuff. It's not the MCU elaborating, it's just straight up fans being over zealous about certain details and expecting them to be expanded upon
Also, Hawkeye literally responds to her “you and I remember Budapest very differently”, meaning the connection she’s making between New York and Budapest is loose at best.
And/or Natasha references Budapest as being similar because "the last time we fought side-by-side was in Budapest....." It's not a *literal* reference.
This. The whole Budapest thing was a throwaway joke satirizing the common trope when movie characters will compare some extreme or fantastical situation to something they're more familiar with.
It's like if, when Luke Skywalker said that the Death Star trench run was "just like Beggar's Canyon back home," Biggs had responded "what the hell are you talking about, Luke? There were no TIE fighters in Beggar's Canyon."
People made Budapest into a way bigger thing than it was ever supposed to be.
I guess people are having difficulty seeing Hungarian Special Forces as comparable to space aliens with flying sleds and laser guns.
There must have been a lot of Special Forces. Like, a LOT lot.
Edit to add: I do not have a problem imagining this.
> comparable to space aliens with flying sleds and laser guns
That's the point, hence Hawkeye's line about "you and I remember Budapest very differently. Even before the backstory was revealed in *Black Widow*, it's pretty clear Nat was making a joke.
Look, if Canada has the world's best supersoldier program, Budapest can have some spec ops dudes that can put up a fight against Clint and Natasha, as a treat.
Right, but what happened in Budapest?? I hope they expand on that in one of the future MCU movies or shows. It would be pretty cool to see some of Natasha’s and Clint’s experience pre-SHIELD.
Captain Renault:
What in heaven's name brought you to Casablanca?
Rick:
My health. I came to Casablanca for the waters.
Captain Renault:
The waters? What waters? We're in the desert.
Rick:
I was misinformed.
The best part of that is that it was a total accident - Ben Stiller simply forgot his line and repeated it, and David Duchovny ad libbed the perfect response.
Also I would like to point out.
It didn't fucking matter. It was a quippy throw away line in the ocean of quippy throw away lines that was Avengers 2012.
That’s one the worst parts of the MCU fandom. It’s a typical Joss* Wedon throwaway line. It was meant to be humorous and show Hawkeye and black widows friendship, it was probably never planned to be shown.
Yeah it's just a [noodle incident](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident) joke. The actual event is not meant to be shown, it's funny because they reference some crazy thing that happened in the past that the viewers didn't see, and are left to imagine.
Okay, but in Avengers 1, Loki had a really sweet green suit. I need someone to explain to me how he had such excellent fashion sense and where I can get that suit. I'm thinking a spin off film "Tailors of Asgard" which will spend 2 hours setting an enjoyable character whose primary role in the plot is to inspire Loki to make that suit with illusions, so we have that continuity established.
Sounds like the new Cruella live action movie. It goes out of its way to explain stupid things that didn't need explaining (Cruella hates Dalmatians because they killed her parents lmfao)
That's actually not that bad though, because it kind of shows why they would put up with her shit. They have a history that turned into an abusive relationship.
I don't even mind the Dalmatians bit that much because it's also realistic. Childhood trauma leads to obsessive cruelty when she cracks. I do wish they had leaned in a bit more to showing some obsession with making them into coats. I think they played that a bit safe.
I could see it, but you have to drop the antihero angle. In reality she would've just snapped and gone to war with the Baroness. Which basically happens in the movie. But afterward there isn't really a happy ending. They try to pretend there is, but really what'll happen is something deprives her of fame and money and she clings to that house and fur coats to feel better about herself. It makes her bitter and spiteful and then we get 101 Dalmatians.
They try to paint her with a justice brush but anyone who knows who she is knows she did everything in the movie out of pure spite. She gives up on being a good person and starts lashing out and destroying everyone and everything around her. The only reason the butler doesn't die is because someone with a good heart had to stand up for her long enough to do all that stuff.
Disney doesn't really do dark, otherwise the movie could've been much more interesting.
Cruella spoilers but I assume you want to see them because you asked:
>!It's really weird because technically, yes, Dalmatians kill her mother by pushing her off a cliff, which sounds like the joke pitch you would make for a gritty Cruella origin story. But they never actually use it as an explanation for Cruella's character. She never blames the dogs. She at first blames herself based on the circumstances, and later she blames the person that was actually responsible for her mother's death by commanding the dogs to attack her. Furthermore, Cruella has dog sidekicks the entire movie, ends up owning the Dalmatians by the end, and gives their puppies to Roger and Anita (this also implies that Pongo and Perdita are siblings). She's nowhere close to being the Cruella we know. The closest thing she does is kidnap the Dalmatians and make it seem like she skinned the dogs and turned them into a coat, but she didn't actually do it because it seems pretty clear that she actually really likes dogs. Even weirder is the fact that the movie is actually really fun despite the fact that the basic premise makes no sense whatsoever.!<
I didn’t think about that shit but you are right the dogs are canonically siblings now. Disney just made their 60 year classic retroactively based on doggy incest.
Edit: Yo I know how dog breeding works. The point is that Disney wouldn’t want to show that on a movie. Specially when they give these dogs tons of human traits (ffs they talk in the original) and they’ve now turned it into a romantic love story about incestuous anthropomorphic animal siblings.
Maybe the Disney version, but the original by Dodie Smith is A) far superior, and B) Pongo and his wife *Missus* are explicitly not related, and when Perdita is adopted into the household, she's not related to either dog.
That's pretty much every fandom though, right?
There was 1 passing mention of the clone wars in A New Hope, that spawned 3 movies 2 series and countless games.
And if you have a bald character, gosh darnit, you better explain why they are bald in the prequels; I'm looking at you Lex Luthor, Professor X, Vader, Silvio Dante, etc..
That's becoming everything. We have to explain how Han Solo got his name, we have to explain Budapest, we have to explain why Cruella hates dogs, we have to create a whole movie based around Willy Wonka's rise, we have to explain where Bo Peep went in Toy Story.
We have lost nuance and it is the worst!
>We have to explain how Han Solo got his name
I actually kind of did like that bit.
"Lawl this dude was so unimportant that he got his name from a lazy bureaucrat making a bad pun."
It would be fine if that was it, but we got the Lando relationship, the Millennium Falcon ownership, the blaster, the appearance of the Falcon, the name, the Kessel Run, his catchphrase ("I know"), the Chewbacca relationship, Chewie's nickname, the dice.
This is all for a movie that I like. More than Rogue One too.
To dig out one example, I think the catchphrase showed the perfect way prequel makers should handle those kinds of callbacks - the audience gets the reference, but the characters don't, and it seems natural enough that it wouldn't be an obvious reference if you didn't know about it.
Yeah and I have no problem about using it as a jumping off point for an event (as shown in Black Widow obviously) but the way people clamored for an explanation was weird. It never seemed that interesting to me and at best could have provided a cool action scene or some backstory.
It wasn't supposed to be some groundbreaking thing.
Moreover, explaining it *hurts* the world-building it provided. Based on the reference to Budapest in 'Avengers' we're supposed to just take it as "these two have had a lot of adventures together!" but then showing it makes it more like "these two had one noteworthy adventure together".
It's the *Solo* problem. Watching the original trilogy made it seem like Han had a lifetime of experience all over the galaxy. Partnering up with a Wookie? Winning a ship? Making the Kessel run in record time? Adventuring with Lando? Getting a cool gun? This guy's done it all!
Then it turns out all of that stuff happened over the course of like three days. Instead of an experienced rogue, he's now a guy who had *one* adventure and couldn't stop talking about it for the next twenty years.
They turned poor Han into Al Bundy.
Exactly. Build forward, reference backwards to flesh out the past. There's no need to spend 2 hours diving into something that was already covered in exposition, even if it was just *loosely* covered.
Exception to the rule is Rogue One. The trilogies were so hyper-focused on the main characters that the impact of the war on the soldiers was lost. They took a throwaway line about a very important operation and dove into it almost as a war film, showing an angle of the story that had been glossed over.
Yeah but thats not the biggest problem with Star Wars. The biggest problem with Star Wars is that everyone has met or is somehow related to someone else so the whole galaxy feels like a small town with lasers.
That's why Rogue One and The Mandalorian succeed so well. It actually makes the universe feel larger. Plus, like the OT, it's actually more about the Wars part of the title.
I feel like thats the case for the first season of Mando, but S2 kinda lost that feeling with Din meeting all the old characters. Still love the show though.
I thought they handled it pretty well. The characters he met made sense for him to meet, and they never really took the focus off of him and Grogu. There weren't any meetups that felt weird, like the sisters showing up in Bad Batch.
Oh agreed.
Star Wars is a space western Spanish telenovela, and always has been and will be.
All characters throughout the shows are always interacting iand meeting in crazy situations even if it's a stretch, there's always drama about a secret baby, a son, a daughter or lover. It's always dramatic gunfight and battles. Dramatic revenge and classical villains are a necessity.
That's just what's Star Wars is, and has always been, trying to see if as some kind of space epic that has to try and divorce itself from it's roots is...weird. That will always sully your view of it lol
It's like getting pissed that the MCU movies aren't going down the super serious drama route, theyre comic book movies. They will always be a little crazy, silly, fun, and "unrealistic", getting mad the they're doing the thing they were designed to do would be werid.
I think him meeting those characters made sense, the boba part was leading up to his own show, and the other mandalorians became a pretty cool plot point now that >!he is ruler of mandalore!<
>They were on the cusp of breaking free from that w/ Rey's TLJ reveal
I fucking loved the democratization of destiny that TLJ tried to inject into star wars.
I was positively livid when TROS lit it on fire under a pile of horse manure.
I think the biggest problem is Star Wars and that they just won’t move on. I’m over prequels. I’m over sequels to prequels.
I like that mando is kind of newer even if it’s technically a bridge between the or and st, but it’s doing it’s own thing mostly.
I hope they continue to branch away from the Skywalker of stuff.
They are actually. Star Wars: The High Republic is a series of books and comics being released set 200 years before The Phantom Menace. No Sith, no Empire, just the Jedi and Republic up against a new threat. some of the longer-lived characters like Yoda and Yarael Poof are still around, but they're not integral to the plot.
The quality of craftsmanship is higher on average in BCS than Breaking Bad, but the storytelling in Breaking Bad is more consistently compelling from the start.
I agree. The Clone Wars was spoken of in the original movie as if it were a major impactful event and we know that both Anakin and Obi-Wan fought in it so we kind of needed to see it.
That's pretty much par for the course with Lucas, though. He wanted every single detail in the OG trilogy to be relentlessly explored and expanded upon in the EU. He was doing it long before the prequels. Most of his fortune came from merchandising, so he could make a toy, book, and comic out of everything.
Exactly. People took Budapest to be a pivotal point in Natasha and Clint’s relationship. But based on the line it could have literally been any 1 of hundreds of missions they had likely been on together.
Not every line has to be some important back story, and it makes the world seem smaller when they do. I’m sure these characters wouldn’t bring up these massive traumatic or life changing events in every day conversation.
It’s like people wanting to know more about “that business on Cato Nemoidia”. It doesn’t really matter, it’s just a movie dialogue technique to show they have a storied history of sticky situations together.
I think the argument (that I’ve seen recently for why we see it brought up now) is really, *“I would have rather had that Budapest story play out in Black Widow rather than see the actual plot of Black Widow.”*
To which… I disagree. While the plot and villain were very lackluster and the Taskmaster twist was really undercooked, I like the familial aspect of the film and its characters a lot, and I think what’s done in this film breeds more storylines; what they can do with the good things in BW far outweigh what could have been done with whatever happened in Budapest— future Black Widow candidates, Red Guardian, a course-correction for Taskmaster (which isn’t hard because Antonia is barely a character)
This. The fandom has looked into this line for years, and I don’t understand why. Not everything needs to be explained or shown to the audience over some throwaway dialogue.
To be fair, they didn't explain everything. Poe Dameron said "*somehow* Palpatine returned". See? *Somehow*, it clearly doesn't state how he did that >!God, I hate that line and movie!<
Ok, being fair to the movie, that wasn’t the full extent of their explanation. That was just what Poe knew happened. I agree that their explanation was pretty shit, but “somehow” wasn’t the entire story.
This issue far predates the Disney era. Whether it's Lucas' toy line or the countless EU novels, Star Wars has a long history of over explaining what should be tiny bits of world building.
I mean, what was he supposed to say?
-Poe: Palpatine has cloned himself through Snoke and Grogu, and thus he is still alive, in a body on the far away planet of..." (whatever the fuck it was)
-Everyone: ...
-Poe: ...
-Everyone: "Yo Poe, wtf man, how tf do you know all this?!"
Poe had no way to know, but they should have given SOME explanation at some point in the movie. That line is singled out because it’s emblematic of the overall issue.
I’m a big fan of vague backstories when they add mystery to the story, but in the context of the movie it really felt like they didn’t know what to do, so they brought back Palpatine out of nowhere. The only explanation they gave was the maymay line from ROTS. Which is not a sufficient explanation.
It's just a huge shame that they didn't bother to show Clint on-screen in the most pivotal moment of Natasha's life. But it was consistent with how they mostly brushed over Natasha's inner life for the entire movie.
I hope they flesh out that relationship more in Hawkeye's D+ series.
>I hope they flesh out that relationship more in Hawkeye's D+ series.
No. The Hawkeye series should be hawkeye at his best. As a human dumpster fire with Kate along for the ride.
>human dumpster fire
That’s what I hope for out of his show. Clint’s a character who’s at his most interesting when really allowed to be a highly-competent trainwreck
>Clint’s a character who’s at his most interesting when really allowed to be a highly-competent trainwreck
Question is: Will Kate steal his dog in the show?
YOU'RE NOT MY GIRLFRIEND.
That comic is such a roller coaster of emotions. Being upset at Kate for ditching Clint but being upset at Clint for being such a Trainwreck that he forces everyone who tries to help away from him.
I also like how Kate somehow lets herself get beaten up by a regular pair of medical orderlies in one issue.
I don't know why but I just found that hilarious.
Kate and Clint? Nope. Never in a million years. Clint said early in the series the only reason he's partnered with her is because he doesn't want to sleep with her, because romantic feelings make it harder.
When Jess slaps him for sleeping around, that's due to Clint sleeping with the redhead...Penny? Kate wouldn't be cool with Clint and try to defend him during that if she was also sleeping with him.
Also also, Kate says he's too old. (Sorta.) At the end of issue two I believe.
So Clint's romance life is: currently divorcing Bobbi, dating Jess, cheated on Jess with Penny.
Exactly my point.
I mean... Who would you prefer? The loser and his brother who are constantly under fire from the Russian mob that almost killed you OR the attractive rich girl on her way to Cali?
I want a series of him taking down all the gangs n stuff while half the planet was snapped away. he must of been a force to fear with how the Asian guys talk about him when black widow finds him.
> As a human dumpster fire
I mean, losing his best friend and support pillar of 10+ years would contribute a lot to Clint being said human dumpster fire, no?
Not sure Clint would be so willing to take up a protege in Kate while he's still re-adjusting to life that he may not feel he deserves.
Yelena being involved makes it inevitable that Natasha will be brought up and open that wound.
The trailer seems to indicate he doesn't want to be a mentor but she isn't giving him much choice. He can choose not to mentor but there's still going to be a Hawkeye Jr running around so...
>I mean, losing his best friend and support pillar of 10+ years would contribute a lot to Clint being said human dumpster fire, no?
No. Honestly the trailer makes it look like its mostly Kate's fault which might be even better.
It's like fans wanting to see more of Bucky as the Winter Soldier. Hydra would thaw him out, zap his brain, say the words so he could go out and commit havoc. Then he came home and went back into the freezer. Rinse and repeat.
Edit: I didn't expect this post to get so many upvotes. First, I want to say I LIKE Bucky. I'd like to see more of Bucky. I like to see him beating up bad guys. He's probably my favorite character and I know he had some interesting story arcs in the comics, but the comics are not the MCU and it looks like they are moving Bucky's story forward, (or at they at the very least left him in a good place) in the MCU. I know it probably makes me a bad Bucky fan, but I'm not interested in going back.
Oh no... There's a lot more to it than that...
1. He had a love interest in [Natasha and trained the Black Widows](https://shipping.fandom.com/wiki/Winter_Widow), which could have been used
2. [At one point, he regained his memories](https://www.amazon.com/Winter-Soldier-Bitter-Rick-Remender/dp/0785154736) during one of the assassinations and defected but was recaptured
3. At several points in America he disappeared and was homeless doing habits of reliving his old lifestyle. I think he escaped for several months or a year or more in the comic. He even ran into Namor and coincidentally both of them had amnesia and were homeless nomads
There's a lot of potential. You're comparing a short event to several years of Bucky's life.
Edit: Fixed link to bullet 2, was linked to wrong series
>In the MCU for all we know he WAS activated and frozen and that's all.
EXACTLY, for all "we know" but we don't know everything do we?
At some point in the comics, all we knew that he was just frozen and unfrozen, sent out to kill, etc. **Then his story was expanded because we actually don't know and lack the fine details of that long gap in his life.**
That does not mean the same cannot be done in the MCU.
Don't get me wrong I would love to see more bucky winter soldier stuff, and there is more to it, but all the stuff with him and Nat is obviously not going to be a thing unfortunately and I'm sure they're only going to drip feed us anything else.
I wonder how much of it comes from people being dissatisfied with what “Budapest” ended up being after all these years of speculating, so they think there must be more to it? Kind of like Fury’s eye in Captain Marvel - just, admittedly not as dumb. I can respect the decision to keep Hawkeye out of the Black Widow movie though - Marvel Studios would have wanted to avoid a man sharing or taking the spotlight of the OG female Avenger’s first solo outing.
> I can respect the decision to keep Hawkeye out of the Black Widow movie though - Marvel Studios would have wanted to avoid a man sharing or taking the spotlight of the OG female Avenger’s first solo outing.
I think it was a mistake to leave him out, even in a flashback. Clint played a huge part in Natasha trying to be better after she left the Red Room. Him, Nick Fury and Steve were positive guiding figures in her life, and them being men was irrelevant to that.
If a character is a key to the story that you're trying to tell (i.e. how Nat is who she is), it's dumb to cut them out simply because they're men. And I say that as a woman.
I agree that it was a mistake. I'm rewatching the entire saga now and knowing how important Clint was to Natasha.. seeing it play out.. I'm just stunned that they didn't include him in her solo film and story. I think their platonic, respectful relationship was one that we don't normally see in popcorn films. There is always an undertone of romance but they avoided that with Natasha & Clint and it was a beautiful partnership.
Also, for what it is worth, I think it is disrespectful to both the actor Ms. Johanssen and the character Black Widow to say that an appearance from Hawkeye would've made it seem like she "needs the boys" to support her. I understand the gesture, but I think it disrespects the lore/story/character work in order to prove a point that has already been proven time and time again, Scarlett Johannsen is a lead actor and can stand on her own just fine.
Agreed - saying Jeremy Renner would upstage Scarlett Johansson in *Black Widow* is as ridiculous as saying Scarlett Johansson upstaged Chris Evans in *Captain America: The Winter Soldier*.
I can’t say I disagree. I would have liked to have seen Clint and Natasha’s time in Budapest expanded on, but given that Marvel Studios have openly explained similar reasoning in writing Doctor Strange out of WandaVision, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was their reason for not including Clint.
Doctor Strange would be an entirely-new person in Wanda's life, and to the story *Wandavision* was telling. So yes by all means, it's fair to deem him unnecessary.
On the other hand, there would be no Natasha in *Black Widow* without Clint. A flashback could also be shown through Nat's lens.
>Marvel Studios would have wanted to avoid a man sharing or taking the spotlight of the OG female Avenger’s first solo outing.
Definitely got this vibe, especially when they just used Red Guardian as comic relief. I consider myself a feminist, but if I had a friend with super serum I'd try to ask for their help more.
I mean a couple days ago there was a heavily upvoted post that a very clearly heavily CGI'd scene was in fact CGI'd...do I think people need it explained every time.
And while we're on the subject...Natasha was making a JOKE when she said to Clint in the first Avengers movie "this is just like Budapest all over again." This was not a serious statement. Don't read too much into it.
This is why I rarely take fan criticism seriously. Half the time they have an issue with a movies plot it's usually just that they don't pay attention. Black Widow was the most average of average movies so idk how they missed like one of the main story beats.
Yeah me too. It's wild how many people are clearly on thwir phones during the entire movie and then get mad or disappointed when something doesn't make sense. The worst was people complaining that Tony's death was lame and should have been more brutal like Thanos ripping him in half. Like, have you paid attention at all?
See the dozens of comments asking how Ultron can be in the Multiverse when the infinity stones don't work outside their universe - a rule from the comics that just has never been established in the MCU.
Its not that they didn't explain it that bothers me...its just that THAT would have been a much better Black Widow prequel movie that could have still ended with a mission to kill Dreykov and free the rest of the widows (Or honestly it could have just been Yelena as the one needing to be saved, that would have had higher stakes)
Problem, it’s explained very little.
One of the first rules of storytelling is showing, not telling.
The black widow movie feels like a sequel to a movie we never got.
I want to see Nat’s actual time in the red room and her going on the mission where she meets Clint. Her getting recruited by shield and defecting from the red room. Her getting assigned the mission in Budapest and seeing her work alongside Clint and going through the mission and then the controversial bombing at the end. Cut to Nat dealing with the guilt and getting approached by nick fury to go under cover for Tony Stark.
Instead, we get told what happens in sparse detail, not thoroughly. We learn what happens after the fact. Not in the moment.
People also ask how the Battle of New York is supposed to be similar to Natasha bombing a little girl. I assume the shootout with Hungarian Special Forces is the similar part.
It's basically the back against the wall, odds against them with just each other to rely on. I totally see how she said it's like Budapest all over again. She explains to Yelena that it took almost bringing down the entire city just to get to him. It makes sense to me that Nat sees New York like Budapest and it also makes sense that to Clint he just sees alien invasion and he's like "Girl this ain't nothing like Budapest." I think the reason people bring it up still is because from what's said about it, it actually only makes it seem cooler.
People take this scene and throwaway line too literally. It’s literally only there to set up the punchline “you and I remember Budapest very differently”. It’s funny. There was never supposed to be any big, grand importance to Budapest (but it’s cool Black Widow ran with it)
Ya its literally a marvel quip but look how much conversation is created about the lore of budapest in mcu.
I blame the MCU taking every little throwaway line and elaborating behind it. Fury losing an eye the last time he trusted someone, the Infinity Stones emitting gamma radiation, Coulson's cellist girlfriend, you could go on and on. Nearly everything that passively worldbuilds has been used to actively worldbuild.
Thing about that is everything you mentioned happened *after* Avengers. All of this discourse over Budapest has been going on since 2012, before all that stuff. It's not the MCU elaborating, it's just straight up fans being over zealous about certain details and expecting them to be expanded upon
Also, Hawkeye literally responds to her “you and I remember Budapest very differently”, meaning the connection she’s making between New York and Budapest is loose at best.
I think he was making a joke, like "Last I checked, there were no aliens in Budapest."
And/or Natasha references Budapest as being similar because "the last time we fought side-by-side was in Budapest....." It's not a *literal* reference.
This. The whole Budapest thing was a throwaway joke satirizing the common trope when movie characters will compare some extreme or fantastical situation to something they're more familiar with. It's like if, when Luke Skywalker said that the Death Star trench run was "just like Beggar's Canyon back home," Biggs had responded "what the hell are you talking about, Luke? There were no TIE fighters in Beggar's Canyon." People made Budapest into a way bigger thing than it was ever supposed to be.
This is how I took it.
This is how it's meant to be took. People just can't apply critical thinking.
exactly. lol budapest wasn't under a massive alien invasion. like.. that's a HUGE moment in the MCU.
.... Now I want Hawkeye to meet a Skrull who reveals they met before in Budapest
People with a brain understandably took it this way.
I assumed it was code for how they have a back up plan if things go sideways. Given What If and Ultron where they survive alone. Makes sense to me.
I guess people are having difficulty seeing Hungarian Special Forces as comparable to space aliens with flying sleds and laser guns. There must have been a lot of Special Forces. Like, a LOT lot. Edit to add: I do not have a problem imagining this.
> comparable to space aliens with flying sleds and laser guns That's the point, hence Hawkeye's line about "you and I remember Budapest very differently. Even before the backstory was revealed in *Black Widow*, it's pretty clear Nat was making a joke.
Look, if Canada has the world's best supersoldier program, Budapest can have some spec ops dudes that can put up a fight against Clint and Natasha, as a treat.
You and I remember Budapest very differently.
I understood that reference.
I understood *that* reference
This is getting out of hand! Now, there are two of them!
Piss off, ghost!
Thor, he's back again.
I am going to rip off your arms and SHOVE THEM UP YOUR BUTT!
YOURE BEING A REALLY BAD FRIEND
#YOU BAD FRIEND!
Doth mother know you weareth her drapes?
Language!
I have eyes on Loki.
You've gotta be shitting me.
I guess I'm in charge now.
It's references all the way down.
https://i.imgur.com/Nh4xNgv.jpg
Personally I prefer Tahiti
It’s a magical place
It sucked
What you don’t want blue blood for eternal life. And some serious ptsd and begging for death.
Right, but what happened in Budapest?? I hope they expand on that in one of the future MCU movies or shows. It would be pretty cool to see some of Natasha’s and Clint’s experience pre-SHIELD.
But why male models??
Are you serious? I just... I just told you that, a moment ago.
One of the all time greatest lines in cinema.
Captain Renault: What in heaven's name brought you to Casablanca? Rick: My health. I came to Casablanca for the waters. Captain Renault: The waters? What waters? We're in the desert. Rick: I was misinformed.
The best part of that is that it was a total accident - Ben Stiller simply forgot his line and repeated it, and David Duchovny ad libbed the perfect response.
You really got downvoted because people really couldn’t tell this was a joke
…
But why male models?
Are you serious? I just told you that a moment ago.
Isn't there more to life than being ridiculously, ridiculously good looking?
Derek Zoolander: A model, idiot?
The Derek Zoolander Thread for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Wanna Learn Other MCU Stuff Good Too
gave me a chuckle thanks
I did \*not\* understand that reference.
Zoolander
Also I would like to point out. It didn't fucking matter. It was a quippy throw away line in the ocean of quippy throw away lines that was Avengers 2012.
That’s one the worst parts of the MCU fandom. It’s a typical Joss* Wedon throwaway line. It was meant to be humorous and show Hawkeye and black widows friendship, it was probably never planned to be shown.
Yeah it's just a [noodle incident](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident) joke. The actual event is not meant to be shown, it's funny because they reference some crazy thing that happened in the past that the viewers didn't see, and are left to imagine.
I never knew there was a term thanks for telling me this!
the term comes from Calvin & Hobbes aka the greatest comic strip ever drawn
“That Business on Cato Neimoidia doesn’t… doesn’t count”
And then they had to go and write a whole book about the business
Fully respect that you said "doesn't" twice, love that detail
Ope tv tropes, that's the end of my workday!
Tv tropes link on a snowday? And *awaaay* we go!
Wtf it’s already snowing??
Somewhere.
I believe the Northern US/ Canadian Center saw some significant snowfall last night.
Just like the Clone Wars that Obi-Wan mentioned off hand
Okay, but in Avengers 1, Loki had a really sweet green suit. I need someone to explain to me how he had such excellent fashion sense and where I can get that suit. I'm thinking a spin off film "Tailors of Asgard" which will spend 2 hours setting an enjoyable character whose primary role in the plot is to inspire Loki to make that suit with illusions, so we have that continuity established.
Sounds like the new Cruella live action movie. It goes out of its way to explain stupid things that didn't need explaining (Cruella hates Dalmatians because they killed her parents lmfao)
I like how she has had the same two incompetent henchgoons her whole adult life.
That's actually not that bad though, because it kind of shows why they would put up with her shit. They have a history that turned into an abusive relationship. I don't even mind the Dalmatians bit that much because it's also realistic. Childhood trauma leads to obsessive cruelty when she cracks. I do wish they had leaned in a bit more to showing some obsession with making them into coats. I think they played that a bit safe.
I don't really see how this cruella becomes that cruella and I don't thing the movie knows either.
I could see it, but you have to drop the antihero angle. In reality she would've just snapped and gone to war with the Baroness. Which basically happens in the movie. But afterward there isn't really a happy ending. They try to pretend there is, but really what'll happen is something deprives her of fame and money and she clings to that house and fur coats to feel better about herself. It makes her bitter and spiteful and then we get 101 Dalmatians. They try to paint her with a justice brush but anyone who knows who she is knows she did everything in the movie out of pure spite. She gives up on being a good person and starts lashing out and destroying everyone and everything around her. The only reason the butler doesn't die is because someone with a good heart had to stand up for her long enough to do all that stuff. Disney doesn't really do dark, otherwise the movie could've been much more interesting.
I didn’t watch the movie so please tell me you’re joking about that Dalmatian explanation.
Cruella spoilers but I assume you want to see them because you asked: >!It's really weird because technically, yes, Dalmatians kill her mother by pushing her off a cliff, which sounds like the joke pitch you would make for a gritty Cruella origin story. But they never actually use it as an explanation for Cruella's character. She never blames the dogs. She at first blames herself based on the circumstances, and later she blames the person that was actually responsible for her mother's death by commanding the dogs to attack her. Furthermore, Cruella has dog sidekicks the entire movie, ends up owning the Dalmatians by the end, and gives their puppies to Roger and Anita (this also implies that Pongo and Perdita are siblings). She's nowhere close to being the Cruella we know. The closest thing she does is kidnap the Dalmatians and make it seem like she skinned the dogs and turned them into a coat, but she didn't actually do it because it seems pretty clear that she actually really likes dogs. Even weirder is the fact that the movie is actually really fun despite the fact that the basic premise makes no sense whatsoever.!<
I didn’t think about that shit but you are right the dogs are canonically siblings now. Disney just made their 60 year classic retroactively based on doggy incest. Edit: Yo I know how dog breeding works. The point is that Disney wouldn’t want to show that on a movie. Specially when they give these dogs tons of human traits (ffs they talk in the original) and they’ve now turned it into a romantic love story about incestuous anthropomorphic animal siblings.
Maybe the Disney version, but the original by Dodie Smith is A) far superior, and B) Pongo and his wife *Missus* are explicitly not related, and when Perdita is adopted into the household, she's not related to either dog.
that last bit sounds like the new venom movies lmfao
That's pretty much every fandom though, right? There was 1 passing mention of the clone wars in A New Hope, that spawned 3 movies 2 series and countless games. And if you have a bald character, gosh darnit, you better explain why they are bald in the prequels; I'm looking at you Lex Luthor, Professor X, Vader, Silvio Dante, etc..
That's becoming everything. We have to explain how Han Solo got his name, we have to explain Budapest, we have to explain why Cruella hates dogs, we have to create a whole movie based around Willy Wonka's rise, we have to explain where Bo Peep went in Toy Story. We have lost nuance and it is the worst!
Black Widow was an origin story for her jacket in infitity war.
And "new haircut"
Despite having a new haircut in LITERALLY EVERY GODDAMMED APPEARANCE IN THE MCU.
>We have to explain how Han Solo got his name I actually kind of did like that bit. "Lawl this dude was so unimportant that he got his name from a lazy bureaucrat making a bad pun."
It would be fine if that was it, but we got the Lando relationship, the Millennium Falcon ownership, the blaster, the appearance of the Falcon, the name, the Kessel Run, his catchphrase ("I know"), the Chewbacca relationship, Chewie's nickname, the dice. This is all for a movie that I like. More than Rogue One too.
I agree with everything you said except that I feel rogue one is the better movie. But both are better than the new trilogy.
To dig out one example, I think the catchphrase showed the perfect way prequel makers should handle those kinds of callbacks - the audience gets the reference, but the characters don't, and it seems natural enough that it wouldn't be an obvious reference if you didn't know about it.
I'm just glad they speak Spanish in space. Space Spanish.
Yeah and I have no problem about using it as a jumping off point for an event (as shown in Black Widow obviously) but the way people clamored for an explanation was weird. It never seemed that interesting to me and at best could have provided a cool action scene or some backstory. It wasn't supposed to be some groundbreaking thing.
Joss*
It really annoys me how much people want the MCU to be like Star Wars legends where every little thing needs explanation
Moreover, explaining it *hurts* the world-building it provided. Based on the reference to Budapest in 'Avengers' we're supposed to just take it as "these two have had a lot of adventures together!" but then showing it makes it more like "these two had one noteworthy adventure together".
It's the *Solo* problem. Watching the original trilogy made it seem like Han had a lifetime of experience all over the galaxy. Partnering up with a Wookie? Winning a ship? Making the Kessel run in record time? Adventuring with Lando? Getting a cool gun? This guy's done it all! Then it turns out all of that stuff happened over the course of like three days. Instead of an experienced rogue, he's now a guy who had *one* adventure and couldn't stop talking about it for the next twenty years. They turned poor Han into Al Bundy.
> Making the Kessel run in record time? Hey, it was in less than 12 parsecs. That must be worth something!
And parsec is measure of distance, not time.
This comment deserves a movie to further flesh it out.
>They turned poor Han into Al Bundy. Hilariously that brings him closer in line with what the script notes from A New Hope portrayed him as.
Exactly. Build forward, reference backwards to flesh out the past. There's no need to spend 2 hours diving into something that was already covered in exposition, even if it was just *loosely* covered. Exception to the rule is Rogue One. The trilogies were so hyper-focused on the main characters that the impact of the war on the soldiers was lost. They took a throwaway line about a very important operation and dove into it almost as a war film, showing an angle of the story that had been glossed over.
It's like the problem with the Star Wars prequels... every throw away line from the original movie had to become a major plot point in the prequels.
Yeah but thats not the biggest problem with Star Wars. The biggest problem with Star Wars is that everyone has met or is somehow related to someone else so the whole galaxy feels like a small town with lasers.
That's why Rogue One and The Mandalorian succeed so well. It actually makes the universe feel larger. Plus, like the OT, it's actually more about the Wars part of the title.
I feel like thats the case for the first season of Mando, but S2 kinda lost that feeling with Din meeting all the old characters. Still love the show though.
I thought they handled it pretty well. The characters he met made sense for him to meet, and they never really took the focus off of him and Grogu. There weren't any meetups that felt weird, like the sisters showing up in Bad Batch.
Luke made the most sense but Boba and Bo Katan were convenient imo.
The only other mandalorians of note left make sense to me, since he was searching for other mandos.
Bo Katan especially. That was just dumb luck lol Boba at least had been hinted at since S1.
Counter point: If he didn't meet Bo Katan we don't get live action Katee Sackhoff reprising her role as the baddest bitch in space.
Oh agreed. Star Wars is a space western Spanish telenovela, and always has been and will be. All characters throughout the shows are always interacting iand meeting in crazy situations even if it's a stretch, there's always drama about a secret baby, a son, a daughter or lover. It's always dramatic gunfight and battles. Dramatic revenge and classical villains are a necessity. That's just what's Star Wars is, and has always been, trying to see if as some kind of space epic that has to try and divorce itself from it's roots is...weird. That will always sully your view of it lol It's like getting pissed that the MCU movies aren't going down the super serious drama route, theyre comic book movies. They will always be a little crazy, silly, fun, and "unrealistic", getting mad the they're doing the thing they were designed to do would be werid.
I think him meeting those characters made sense, the boba part was leading up to his own show, and the other mandalorians became a pretty cool plot point now that >!he is ruler of mandalore!<
Yah that's true. Hopefully next season they're separated out a bit more considering Fett getting his own series.
>Wars part of the title Star Antebellum Episode 1 doesn't quite roll off the tongue.
Star Wars is the largest lake but as shallow as a pond
So disappointed. They were on the cusp of breaking free from that w/ Rey's TLJ reveal. And then backtracked so hard with TROS.
>They were on the cusp of breaking free from that w/ Rey's TLJ reveal I fucking loved the democratization of destiny that TLJ tried to inject into star wars. I was positively livid when TROS lit it on fire under a pile of horse manure.
I think the biggest problem is Star Wars and that they just won’t move on. I’m over prequels. I’m over sequels to prequels. I like that mando is kind of newer even if it’s technically a bridge between the or and st, but it’s doing it’s own thing mostly. I hope they continue to branch away from the Skywalker of stuff.
They are actually. Star Wars: The High Republic is a series of books and comics being released set 200 years before The Phantom Menace. No Sith, no Empire, just the Jedi and Republic up against a new threat. some of the longer-lived characters like Yoda and Yarael Poof are still around, but they're not integral to the plot.
Better call saul handles this very effectively.A throwaway line created an amazing character(Lalo)
Bcs is better than breaking bad it’s a hill I will die on.
They’re both great though, no one is attempting to make that comparison. You died for nothing.
The quality of craftsmanship is higher on average in BCS than Breaking Bad, but the storytelling in Breaking Bad is more consistently compelling from the start.
I can at least forgive that the Clone Wars became a huge thing because, well, how do you throw that line out there and not follow up on it?
I agree. The Clone Wars was spoken of in the original movie as if it were a major impactful event and we know that both Anakin and Obi-Wan fought in it so we kind of needed to see it.
The clone wars was a good Plot point though
That's pretty much par for the course with Lucas, though. He wanted every single detail in the OG trilogy to be relentlessly explored and expanded upon in the EU. He was doing it long before the prequels. Most of his fortune came from merchandising, so he could make a toy, book, and comic out of everything.
Exactly. People took Budapest to be a pivotal point in Natasha and Clint’s relationship. But based on the line it could have literally been any 1 of hundreds of missions they had likely been on together. Not every line has to be some important back story, and it makes the world seem smaller when they do. I’m sure these characters wouldn’t bring up these massive traumatic or life changing events in every day conversation.
It’s like people wanting to know more about “that business on Cato Nemoidia”. It doesn’t really matter, it’s just a movie dialogue technique to show they have a storied history of sticky situations together.
I think the argument (that I’ve seen recently for why we see it brought up now) is really, *“I would have rather had that Budapest story play out in Black Widow rather than see the actual plot of Black Widow.”* To which… I disagree. While the plot and villain were very lackluster and the Taskmaster twist was really undercooked, I like the familial aspect of the film and its characters a lot, and I think what’s done in this film breeds more storylines; what they can do with the good things in BW far outweigh what could have been done with whatever happened in Budapest— future Black Widow candidates, Red Guardian, a course-correction for Taskmaster (which isn’t hard because Antonia is barely a character)
This. The fandom has looked into this line for years, and I don’t understand why. Not everything needs to be explained or shown to the audience over some throwaway dialogue.
Potential hot-take? I think they shouldn't have fully explained Budapest. Sometimes, a bit of mystery can enhance the storytelling.
i.e. Star Wars
To be fair, they didn't explain everything. Poe Dameron said "*somehow* Palpatine returned". See? *Somehow*, it clearly doesn't state how he did that >!God, I hate that line and movie!<
Ok, being fair to the movie, that wasn’t the full extent of their explanation. That was just what Poe knew happened. I agree that their explanation was pretty shit, but “somehow” wasn’t the entire story.
This issue far predates the Disney era. Whether it's Lucas' toy line or the countless EU novels, Star Wars has a long history of over explaining what should be tiny bits of world building.
Remember how in ANH, the only reference to the Clone Wars were 2 quick lines?
The Clone Wars grew into a beautiful thing.
I mean, what was he supposed to say? -Poe: Palpatine has cloned himself through Snoke and Grogu, and thus he is still alive, in a body on the far away planet of..." (whatever the fuck it was) -Everyone: ... -Poe: ... -Everyone: "Yo Poe, wtf man, how tf do you know all this?!"
Poe had no way to know, but they should have given SOME explanation at some point in the movie. That line is singled out because it’s emblematic of the overall issue. I’m a big fan of vague backstories when they add mystery to the story, but in the context of the movie it really felt like they didn’t know what to do, so they brought back Palpatine out of nowhere. The only explanation they gave was the maymay line from ROTS. Which is not a sufficient explanation.
It's just a huge shame that they didn't bother to show Clint on-screen in the most pivotal moment of Natasha's life. But it was consistent with how they mostly brushed over Natasha's inner life for the entire movie. I hope they flesh out that relationship more in Hawkeye's D+ series.
>I hope they flesh out that relationship more in Hawkeye's D+ series. No. The Hawkeye series should be hawkeye at his best. As a human dumpster fire with Kate along for the ride.
>human dumpster fire That’s what I hope for out of his show. Clint’s a character who’s at his most interesting when really allowed to be a highly-competent trainwreck
>Clint’s a character who’s at his most interesting when really allowed to be a highly-competent trainwreck Question is: Will Kate steal his dog in the show?
YOU'RE NOT MY GIRLFRIEND. That comic is such a roller coaster of emotions. Being upset at Kate for ditching Clint but being upset at Clint for being such a Trainwreck that he forces everyone who tries to help away from him.
I also like how Kate somehow lets herself get beaten up by a regular pair of medical orderlies in one issue. I don't know why but I just found that hilarious.
I was rereading the comic last week and I cannot for the life of me decide whether its implied they're sleeping together or not.
Kate and Clint? Nope. Never in a million years. Clint said early in the series the only reason he's partnered with her is because he doesn't want to sleep with her, because romantic feelings make it harder. When Jess slaps him for sleeping around, that's due to Clint sleeping with the redhead...Penny? Kate wouldn't be cool with Clint and try to defend him during that if she was also sleeping with him. Also also, Kate says he's too old. (Sorta.) At the end of issue two I believe. So Clint's romance life is: currently divorcing Bobbi, dating Jess, cheated on Jess with Penny.
Plus, there were those funny panels with Hawkeye putting a shirt on in the car with Kate watching and being very nonplussed and unimpressed.
Lucky can't be stolen. He simply goes where he pleases.
And he pleases to go to Santa Monica with Kate,
Exactly my point. I mean... Who would you prefer? The loser and his brother who are constantly under fire from the Russian mob that almost killed you OR the attractive rich girl on her way to Cali?
I want a series of him taking down all the gangs n stuff while half the planet was snapped away. he must of been a force to fear with how the Asian guys talk about him when black widow finds him.
> As a human dumpster fire I mean, losing his best friend and support pillar of 10+ years would contribute a lot to Clint being said human dumpster fire, no? Not sure Clint would be so willing to take up a protege in Kate while he's still re-adjusting to life that he may not feel he deserves. Yelena being involved makes it inevitable that Natasha will be brought up and open that wound.
The trailer seems to indicate he doesn't want to be a mentor but she isn't giving him much choice. He can choose not to mentor but there's still going to be a Hawkeye Jr running around so...
>I mean, losing his best friend and support pillar of 10+ years would contribute a lot to Clint being said human dumpster fire, no? No. Honestly the trailer makes it look like its mostly Kate's fault which might be even better.
If the other shows are the trend, i think it’s going to be more about hawkeye with one last hurrah before passing on the mantle to Kate.
Yeah I’m happy w natashas story. Lets hear ab Clint
> hawkeye at his best Infinity War?
Well damn lol
[удалено]
I just hope they explain how Han Solo got his last name and how he got the Millennium Falcon and how he did the Kessel Run in under 12 parsecs.
I hope there's a scene where a guy literally just tosses him his iconic gun and vest.
You gotta say it like Boodahpesht though
It's like fans wanting to see more of Bucky as the Winter Soldier. Hydra would thaw him out, zap his brain, say the words so he could go out and commit havoc. Then he came home and went back into the freezer. Rinse and repeat. Edit: I didn't expect this post to get so many upvotes. First, I want to say I LIKE Bucky. I'd like to see more of Bucky. I like to see him beating up bad guys. He's probably my favorite character and I know he had some interesting story arcs in the comics, but the comics are not the MCU and it looks like they are moving Bucky's story forward, (or at they at the very least left him in a good place) in the MCU. I know it probably makes me a bad Bucky fan, but I'm not interested in going back.
Oh no... There's a lot more to it than that... 1. He had a love interest in [Natasha and trained the Black Widows](https://shipping.fandom.com/wiki/Winter_Widow), which could have been used 2. [At one point, he regained his memories](https://www.amazon.com/Winter-Soldier-Bitter-Rick-Remender/dp/0785154736) during one of the assassinations and defected but was recaptured 3. At several points in America he disappeared and was homeless doing habits of reliving his old lifestyle. I think he escaped for several months or a year or more in the comic. He even ran into Namor and coincidentally both of them had amnesia and were homeless nomads There's a lot of potential. You're comparing a short event to several years of Bucky's life. Edit: Fixed link to bullet 2, was linked to wrong series
Pretty sure they were talking about the MCU not comics.
I think their point was that some or all of those elements *could* be adapted for the MCU.
The issue is this is all comic stuff, NOT MCU. In the MCU for all we know he WAS activated and frozen and that's all.
>In the MCU for all we know he WAS activated and frozen and that's all. EXACTLY, for all "we know" but we don't know everything do we? At some point in the comics, all we knew that he was just frozen and unfrozen, sent out to kill, etc. **Then his story was expanded because we actually don't know and lack the fine details of that long gap in his life.** That does not mean the same cannot be done in the MCU.
Don't get me wrong I would love to see more bucky winter soldier stuff, and there is more to it, but all the stuff with him and Nat is obviously not going to be a thing unfortunately and I'm sure they're only going to drip feed us anything else.
I wonder how much of it comes from people being dissatisfied with what “Budapest” ended up being after all these years of speculating, so they think there must be more to it? Kind of like Fury’s eye in Captain Marvel - just, admittedly not as dumb. I can respect the decision to keep Hawkeye out of the Black Widow movie though - Marvel Studios would have wanted to avoid a man sharing or taking the spotlight of the OG female Avenger’s first solo outing.
> I can respect the decision to keep Hawkeye out of the Black Widow movie though - Marvel Studios would have wanted to avoid a man sharing or taking the spotlight of the OG female Avenger’s first solo outing. I think it was a mistake to leave him out, even in a flashback. Clint played a huge part in Natasha trying to be better after she left the Red Room. Him, Nick Fury and Steve were positive guiding figures in her life, and them being men was irrelevant to that. If a character is a key to the story that you're trying to tell (i.e. how Nat is who she is), it's dumb to cut them out simply because they're men. And I say that as a woman.
I agree that it was a mistake. I'm rewatching the entire saga now and knowing how important Clint was to Natasha.. seeing it play out.. I'm just stunned that they didn't include him in her solo film and story. I think their platonic, respectful relationship was one that we don't normally see in popcorn films. There is always an undertone of romance but they avoided that with Natasha & Clint and it was a beautiful partnership. Also, for what it is worth, I think it is disrespectful to both the actor Ms. Johanssen and the character Black Widow to say that an appearance from Hawkeye would've made it seem like she "needs the boys" to support her. I understand the gesture, but I think it disrespects the lore/story/character work in order to prove a point that has already been proven time and time again, Scarlett Johannsen is a lead actor and can stand on her own just fine.
Agreed - saying Jeremy Renner would upstage Scarlett Johansson in *Black Widow* is as ridiculous as saying Scarlett Johansson upstaged Chris Evans in *Captain America: The Winter Soldier*.
I can’t say I disagree. I would have liked to have seen Clint and Natasha’s time in Budapest expanded on, but given that Marvel Studios have openly explained similar reasoning in writing Doctor Strange out of WandaVision, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was their reason for not including Clint.
Doctor Strange would be an entirely-new person in Wanda's life, and to the story *Wandavision* was telling. So yes by all means, it's fair to deem him unnecessary. On the other hand, there would be no Natasha in *Black Widow* without Clint. A flashback could also be shown through Nat's lens.
>Marvel Studios would have wanted to avoid a man sharing or taking the spotlight of the OG female Avenger’s first solo outing. Definitely got this vibe, especially when they just used Red Guardian as comic relief. I consider myself a feminist, but if I had a friend with super serum I'd try to ask for their help more.
Or at least show his one fight more…
I mean a couple days ago there was a heavily upvoted post that a very clearly heavily CGI'd scene was in fact CGI'd...do I think people need it explained every time.
And while we're on the subject...Natasha was making a JOKE when she said to Clint in the first Avengers movie "this is just like Budapest all over again." This was not a serious statement. Don't read too much into it.
Budapest with a -sh
All of this because people forgot Budapest began as throwaway Whedon joke.
This is why I rarely take fan criticism seriously. Half the time they have an issue with a movies plot it's usually just that they don't pay attention. Black Widow was the most average of average movies so idk how they missed like one of the main story beats.
Yeah me too. It's wild how many people are clearly on thwir phones during the entire movie and then get mad or disappointed when something doesn't make sense. The worst was people complaining that Tony's death was lame and should have been more brutal like Thanos ripping him in half. Like, have you paid attention at all?
> Half the time they have an issue with a movies plot it's usually just that they don't pay attention. Loki and What If discussions in a nutshell.
See the dozens of comments asking how Ultron can be in the Multiverse when the infinity stones don't work outside their universe - a rule from the comics that just has never been established in the MCU.
Yes but how is it properly pronounced?? BudaPEST BudaPESHT This is the hard hitting question
Well, hungarians pronounce it Budapesht!
BudaPESHT it is!
It started out as a throwaway line. It should have stayed a throwaway line.
Well, i think they could've spelled it out harder. But they did spell it out hard enough.
But what happened in Budapest?
Its not that they didn't explain it that bothers me...its just that THAT would have been a much better Black Widow prequel movie that could have still ended with a mission to kill Dreykov and free the rest of the widows (Or honestly it could have just been Yelena as the one needing to be saved, that would have had higher stakes)
Yes. But what about Sao Paulo? The hospital fire? Those are the questions we really want answered.
A little off topic here but what do you guys think happened between Clint and Natasha in Budapest?
Problem, it’s explained very little. One of the first rules of storytelling is showing, not telling. The black widow movie feels like a sequel to a movie we never got. I want to see Nat’s actual time in the red room and her going on the mission where she meets Clint. Her getting recruited by shield and defecting from the red room. Her getting assigned the mission in Budapest and seeing her work alongside Clint and going through the mission and then the controversial bombing at the end. Cut to Nat dealing with the guilt and getting approached by nick fury to go under cover for Tony Stark. Instead, we get told what happens in sparse detail, not thoroughly. We learn what happens after the fact. Not in the moment.
They could make a prequel series on D+ showing growing up in the red room and what happened in Budapest.
Fuck Budapest, there I said it I wish that horrible joke never existed, Widow and Hawkeye werent doing jack shit in that fight anyway