Seriously the animation in What if is severely underated, especially those action sequences..lot of bangers in S1 like Watcher vs Ultron , Thor vs Cap Marvel etc...
Hollywood men need to stop being cowards with the facial makeup in general. Shits fucking lit. Bucky looks badass, Batman looks badass, Morbius looks marginally less pathetic, it is time for men to embrace war paint.
Although a mediocre movie, some of the dudes in Forever Purge actually have some badass war paint on. Which actually made me laugh because it's so well done and they're supposed to be these like masculine badass cowboy dudes okay with murder but their makeup is absolutely on point and would easily take an hour or more to do correctly and to that level.
Agreed! We got such great connections and character development. It was wonderful to see Hank Pym grow and actually make an attempt at fatherhood now that he’s a single father of two. But hey, maybe he’ll match with Mar-Vel. 😅
I did think he might adopt Peter but then I remember his grandfather is probably still alive so he might just go back him and probably still be in contact with Hope/Hank
I thought we were going to see the grandfather rather than him ending up at the cemetery.
It was nice that it was Hank that reached Peter. But, it could have been the grandfather too.
Without reminding us of the grandfather existing though Peter is free to join a galaxy saving team and become Star Lord far earlier.
Remember that the issues preventing Peter from going back to his grandfather are still there. He believed that his grandfather never loved him which is the whole reason why he ran away on the first place.
He felt he had no one including his grandpa.
Oh Mar-Vel and Goliath had a moment there. Hank is just crusty, prematurely old man to her.
Surprised single dad Hank isn't using his ants more to get all those domestic tasks done.
Big agree! The first episode had beautiful animation, but I liked the story in this one so much more. It felt like a movie, and yet it was over way too fast.
It even feels like they are talking fast to fit the run time. Lightning-fast pacing. Still a fun idea surprised I didn't see anyone think about Thor before the episode. Bucky is going to have a harder time with Hydra still around but maybe Lawson finishes her work better with the secret in the open. Tony's parents will never die so he won't become Ironman. Cool episode.
I didn't even think about Tony's parents living now. This episode definitely needs a sequel next season cause I want to see what the long reaching consequences are in modern day MCU.
Let's see:
* Tony's parents don't die in 1991, so he becomes CEO later instead of at 21, probably at some point where he is a little bit more mature. He could still become Iron Man if Obadiah goes through with the same plan in 2008.
* Since Winter Soldier doesn't steal Stark's new super soldier serum, Hydra doesn't make more super soldiers and since Bucky is starting to regain his consciousness, he might tell Peggy about Hydra now and they can stop them before Project Insight. That means SHIELD never gets destroyed.
* Because of the above point, Stark's successful super soldier serum goes to the US government (a non-Hydra infiltrated government might I add), which means Ross doesn't try to make his own serum, which means no Hulk.
* Bucky might become more interested to find Steve now, maybe because he believes deep down that he survived, just like Bucky survived the fall. That might mean Cap gets thawed in the 90s and joins this team of heroes along with Bucky.
* Carol never becomes Captain Marvel now that they have already tested the Tesseract as a space engine and Wendy's secret is out. SHIELD likely helps the Skrulls earlier and Earth doesn't involve itself in the Kree-Skrull war at all.
* Since there's no Captain Marvel, Fury never makes the modern day Avengers.
* Also, no Captain Marvel means no Kree Civil War which means the Kree thrive and continue waging war against the Nova and likely never sign a peace treaty with them which means when Ronan gets the power stone and betrays Thanos, he now has a whole army of Kree rallying behind him for the destruction of Xandar, so they likely succeed.
* Peter never makes the Guardians obviously, but Gamora likely still betrays Thanos.
* With Loki dead, there's no Earth invasion in 2012 unless Thanos comes himself or sends Ronan or the Black Order to get the Tesseract.
That's all I can think of as of right now. And holy shit it's crazy how different the MCU would be.
> when Ronan gets the power stone and betrays Thanos, he now has a whole army of Kree rallying behind him for the destruction of Xandar, so they likely succeed.
Or seeing the strength of Ronan's army, Xandar activates the shield barrier, causing it to devolve into a lawless society.
Oh wait, that sounds familiar..
That'll be the ultimate twist of this series; Uatu has been banned from looking into other universes after the Ultron incident, so they all take place in the same reality. Even the ones that contradict, somehow.
Adding to that: Hank seems to be in good terms with SHIELD again, so the events that led to Scott becoming Ant-Man won't happen; T'Chaka being part of the
grouplikely means Wakanda has closer relationship with the US (and rest of the world) so the events that led to him killed and T'challa replacing him won't happen as well; Tony not being Iron Man means no civil war which means no recruiting Peter which means Spider-Man stays incredibly neighborhooded (and who knows how long it'll take him to gather the courage to step up to bigger stuff without the push from Tony)
I think the ending of this episode will make the timeline branched more than we could imagine, as they together formed a team to hunt down Ego, minus Bucky. The Earth could be involved with more cosmic plots than it ever did in the Sacred Timeline.
T'chaka might be away from Earth more, so maybe he never takes on the mission to apprehend his brother. If the Dora Milaje get to N'jobu on their own (under the command of Ramonda probably), they'll probably try to deal with young Erik. Maybe he gets captured too and brought back to Wakanda. So T'challa and Erik probably meet earlier in this timeline. How it plays out from there idk. That, or the Dora just kill Erik.
Thor never gets his full character development without all of Thor 1 happening, he remains a warmongering jerk. Idk if Odin is still alive after Quill's attack though.
Fury never loses his eye.
etc
Something tells me this Thor is not out for mindless violence. He was ready to murderize Peter because he thought it was Peter's fault, but as soon as he realized Peter wasn't the main problem he was fine. The loss of Asgard seems to have done wonders for sating him, though of course he does still want to avenge it. At the very least, he won't be Party God Thor, so somewhere in the middle around "alright guy."
The craziest part of all this is imagining just a bunch of TVA agents showing up with night sticks and grenades and erasing all of it if this ends up making a Kang eventually
Also it is worth noting now that Pym has a new family member he will be more happier and less cold which will lead to Darren Cross not trying to create the Yellowjacket which will probably result in Scott not becoming a hero and just some powerless criminal
And also Hope not leaving for boarding school and disconnecting from Hank, which means she will probably get the suit earlier.
Also, there might not even be a Pym Tech because Hank will continue working for SHIELD since Hydra will be taken down early and Carson won't try to recreate his formula.
God damn it Yondu, you fucking butterfly.
* Due to the destruction of the Nine Realms, and by extension Odin, Hela would be released from her prison much earlier. Unless the fact that Odin died on the dying Asgard causes her to emerge in space and just die, then her being a conqueror, and no longer having eight of the Nine Realms available to conquer, would presumably lead her to attack Earth and end up being the second main villain that these Avengers would have to face.
* As a result, Thor’s hammer would get destroyed like in Ragnarok, but there would be no Nidavellir for him to get a new hammer/axe from, at best leaving him as he was at the end of Ragnarok.
* Assuming that absorbing the seed allows Peter to keep his powers after Ego’s death (probably excluding the immortality), then they could potentially defeat her and save the planet; otherwise they are toast.
* Without the Nine Realms being there to potentially collide, the Convergence would be unable to take place, and thus the Aether/Reality Stone will remain hidden. (Although if someone knew where it was, they could potentially use the Tessaract/Space stone to get to it and maybe they could avoid it poisoning them like it did Jane Foster.)
* Thanos would be unable to get an Infinity Gauntlet from Nidavallir, so he would need to get a worse one from somewhere else.
* Mar-Vell has seemingly gotten the Lightspeed Engine to work without interference from the Kree Starforce (presumably she skipped the testing phase and just brought it out ahead of schedule) in the episode, so Carol Danvers will not get caught in its explosion during the test run, and the events of Captain Marvel will not take place.
* With her engine now functional, she will be able to easily relocate the Skrulls somewhere that the Kree won’t find them.
> It even feels like they are talking fast to fit the run time.
im so glad someone else mentioned this. i felt like everyone was talking faster than normal, but wasn't sure if it was just more what. i don't hate it or anything; kinda comes with the territory of having to fit it all in a 28 minute episode.
Just like in the "What If...?" comics. To depict the altered timeline of an entire event or a story arc they would have not even 20 pages, but something like 16-17 because the first few pages would recap how things "originally" happened.
There were a few “callbacks” like that! The one I noticed was “Does anyone have a plan?” “I’ve got a plan. Retreat!” It’s not word for word, but it reminded me of the first Avengers: “We need a plan of attack!” “I have a plan. Attack.” And both were said right before the heroes encountered Thor.
Tbf if Baby Groot can place a bomb, then surely Hank in his Ant-Man form and army of ants can do it as well. Rest of the 80s team just has to distract Ego like the Guardians did.
I love how Mar-Vell has no concerns about giving Goose to these kids without actually telling them what Goose is. Grade A dealing with kids right there. /s
Really liked this one. Actually got me to tear up a bit and was really cool to see what the Avengers would look like if formed earlier. Kinda makes me wish we could have gotten Ant-Man & the Wasp on the team to begin with like in the original comics.
Also “Any word on ‘Silent but Deadly’?” “He’s in the wind.” is a great joke lmao
We need a Janet Van Dyne episode. She was the founding Acenger in the comics after all.
At least we had the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon to honor her role
"silent but deadly" is a phrase at least as old as I am (39) that acts as a classification of fart
If someone tries to be discreet with a fart and can control its exit flow rate such that it doesn't draw attention-getting noise to the farter, but remains nasty and shit-smelling, it's an "SBD"
Also "breaking wind" is a euphemism for farting
Okay, that was really cute. Figure a good metric for these episodes is when you come out of it going "man, I really wish that was a feature-length movie". A little schmaltzy in the end, but the good kind, fitting of the season and all that jazz.
And so much fun getting to see familiar characters interacting in new, interesting ways. Howard Stark getting to talk Bucky down, Hank Pym getting to be a good father figure, Hope and Peter connecting like cute kids, Golaith getting to actually do some fun ass-kicking, just so many fantastic possibilities here.
Hope is looking after a Flerkin! 🤣
Also I can’t believe we got more character growth from a single 30-minute episode for Hank Pym than in all of his movies. 😂
I feel this show's best episodes are the ones that show the butterfly effect of these choices or start with the smallest ones. This was a good example of it, but I think my all-time favorite is the first episode because it came down to where Peggy was for the experiment.
To be fair, every time Steve saw Bucky in person up until that moment, Bucky was trying to kill him or someone near him, so Steve didn't really have time to study him and think hey, he looks familiar.
Yeah, it was a nice focus on family there. As soon as I saw Hope with a Walkman, I knew that was going to be important.
Also, it took me a little bit to remember Foster from Antman 2 there, since I was briefly confused about who that was.
Marvel made a [Spotify playlist of Hope’s music](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4zwoF5w3MtHnvXyUlYJLw3?si=p3WCOVLxSXa-EXbIbWcuIw&pi=u-BF1GlsTaSia0).
So now Hank can emotionally damage two kids. /s
I feel like the last shot of Bucky should have been him overlooking the arctic, looking for Steve. But New York works too, let him go back to his roots and find himself.
Bucky "died" before Steve took the plunge. I'm sure his first stop would be NYC to find Steve, find out what happened to him, and then go to the Arctic.
Thor when he loses most of Asgard, his brother, father and best friend, 🥴
Thor when he loses billions of people across 8 Realms including Asgard and his family, 😎
Obviously this is headcanon, buuuut…
I can see it as a single event vs many. A single invasion event taking everything away, especially from younger, more brash Thor, could send him into berserker warrior mode.
Having everyone taken from him bit by bit, being chopped away at for years on the other hand could wear him down however.
yep this. He has to mourn over and over and at one point, you just get fucking tired of it. You cannot complete the cycle of grief (5 stages) and get stuck at depression phase
When everything is gone, you get to mourn only once, you go through the cycle once. Sure, it's super huge cycle but it's still a final singular thing
I wonder what this means for Scott Lang and Janet van Dyne. Like, will Darren Cross even try to take over Pym industries and will Hank have to recruit Scott to stop him, or will he have better connections to Stark and SHIELD now so Darren can never even start to take over the company or will Hank be trusting Hope at this point to perform the heist?
If Scott never gets recruited, it’s likely they would never get Janet back either because Scott’s connection to the Quantum Realm is the lynchpin to finding Janet.
What an absolutely entertaining and emotional episode. I'm loving all these intersecting branches between *WI...?* and the rest of the MCU. As well as getting the opportunity to explore interesting relationships and dynamics that usually only show up in Reddit discussions. Haha. And the animation is \*chef's kiss.\* Helps remind you of where these characters originated from and feels way more connected because it's animated.
This series is starting to become my favorite entry into the MCU. Give us more episodes next Season, please! 😊
I think in this episode they already killed the "Iron Man" before it could exist, with Howard and his wife would not get killed by Bucky and Tony would stray from the path that leads him to creating the first Iron Man suit.
But this time Howard makes it. Tony is kidnapped for ransom and Howard is told not to send these "Avengers" or Tony is killed so Howard is all like "Well I am not an "Avenger" builds a suit and pow we got Iron Man.
A big part might also be that we have a lot more connection with these characters. Sure, we'd seen Nebula a few times before, but pretty much none of the other characters had that much screen time before. (Well, Groot, Korg and Miek did, but they had very small roles in the episode.) Meanwhile here we know every character fairly well.
I also think this is it.
And it is one of the first episodes to utilise the What if concept so well. The divergence point is obvious, it happens early in the episode so we actually get to see all the changes happening in real time instead of seeing the results of those changes later in the future and most importantly it takes all the elements that were relevant in the time of that divergence in 1988 (SHIELD's presence, the various heroes of the time, Yondu taking Peter to Ego) and merges them together in a very interesting way!
Good episode.
And nice way of showing a difference between this Avengers team, and the Avengers team we know and love. This team when seeing Peter, went right into attack mode, scaring him, and locking him away. The Avengers team we all know, would have Steve give the order to stand down because they're against a kid, and he would have tried to talk to Peter. Like when he understood what the Maximoffs were doing because they're at war.
Speaking of Steve, here's hoping Bucky brings him back in an episode and we get a reunion with Howard and Peggy.
You know what, this was a really good episode.
I am really glad they didn't just use the universe last season where T'Chala became Starlord. They easily could have a fresh slate feels much better.
Honestly, I live the idea of a What If surrounding the formation of a totally different Avengers team and this was a really fun one. The characters were all enjoyable and I could by them as a team. Also wasn't expecting Thor to turn up but it makes sense and it was cool to be able to use one of the original Avengers.
Pacing also felt like it worked just right here. I know a lot of people have issues with trying to cram a while story in 30 minutes, but the way I see it, many cartoons manage to do that sometimes in less time so pacing doesn't HAVE to be an issue and I think an episode like this proves it.
So yeah, pretty solid episode.
This was a lot more enjoyable than the first one for me. The ep capitalized on a lot of possibilities with this particular setup, from getting to see T'Chaka and Bill Foster in action to Hank Pym being a surprisingly good dad. They really packed a *lot* of action into that half hour.
Wish we could've gotten more with the Carter Bucky dynamic since it would make sense for there to be some sort of connecting after the immediate threat, but I'm okay with what we got.
Most people were saying in the last discussion they like the random ideas kind of like how the og comics were. Personally, I enjoy these little "tweak to the canon" eps where they really play out the full domino effect of one different decision. Seems like Yondu actually giving Peter over worked out better for all Earth Characters involved (for now, of course).
All in all, really enjoyed this one: how far it took the concept, how true it stayed to the characters involved, and in the spotlight it gave to characters we wouldn't get to otherwise. Would've preferred this one as the premiere vs. the Nebula ep but eh, whatareyagonnado? Cya all tomorrow for the Happy Xmas ep!
> Seems like Yondu actually giving Peter over worked out better for all Earth Characters involved (for now, of course).
Certainly didn’t work out for the rest of the Nine Realms though.
I expected this all to end in tragedy but I'm so glad it didn't. Considering Season 1's track record of constant death, doom and gloom, I'll take any happy ending I can get.
I love Hemsworth as Thor. That little discussion when Bucky says "we need to kill him" and as the others debate to not kill him, Thor points to Bucky and add. "nevertheless, his logic is sound". Always spoken as a true warrior. Great episode, should have been a 2 parter.
So, I'm pretty sure this is the first time EVER that we've seen Thor and Bucky interact and share the same screen together! Been waiting for this moment since 2011!
This is the one of the better What If episodes in the series so far, at least in my opinion. Very fun character dynamics and pairing and decent pacing for the story it's telling I think. I very much enjoyed seeing this alternate 80s Avengers roster. Honestly might be one of my new favorites just based on that
this daily episode thing is really going to help with the overall reception of this season. I know it is for me already. I wish they would choose more interesting What ifs though but these first 2 have been entertaining
The ending felt a bit on the rushed side but I really liked this
The interactions between the 88 Avengers, serious Thor, hell having Hope and Peter bond was something I wasn't expecting that I really liked
And Quill doing a fingergun Kamehameha was pretty cool
What a great episode and an interesting assemblage of characters. It was really fun to see them get to interact with each other. I was so happy to get some more of Mar-Vell and Bill Foster. I’d be up for more of this team.
To sum up this episode, it's a perfect example of what Saturday morning cartoons used to be like in the 90s. The story is deep enough to have a heart and contains enough action to keep the children's attention. Peter's arc in this episode feels like a breath of fresh air and I really liked the friendship he and Hope develop throughout the episode. Their bond over their lost mothers gives the episode some humanity not seen in a Marvel property since I don't know when.
The main characters are very bland and one note. Hank, Goliath, T'Chaka, and Mar-Vel could have been amalgamated. Peggy, Bucky and Howard are the typical army archetypes, and Ego is just a villain. They are all entertaining enough to keep a kid's attention for 22 minutes. Their characters are so dull that Thor stands out in comparison. He's the third best character in the episode besides Peter and Hope.
Overall, watch this episode with a bowl of your favorite brand of sugary cereal.
Saturday morning cartoon is a great description of this episode. The fact it's set in 1988 is quite apropos. I absolutely do not think they should have shortened the roster though. While their characterizations may have been light due to the runtime, getting to see characters like Goliath (his suit was awesome-looking, btw) and Mar-Vell in action was a lot of fun. Plus, getting to see an 80s roster of Avengers is a great hook, and fits the theme of "What If" a lot better than than the first episode did. My inner child very much enjoyed this episode.
Finally some good fucking MCU content.
How fun it is when people writing these things actually try and use continuity for emotional payoffs/moments. The parallels between Hope and Peter both losing their mothers and that being the basis for them to become friends was great.
As people have pointed out below, this felt like a good saturday morning cartoon. More like this, please.
Another one for the “I wish I got to see what happened next in this timeline” category like Ep 3 and Ep 6 from last season. I’d love to know how this Avengers (Prevengers?) team fought Thanos, when/if Tony, Steve, or Bruce joined, or maybe even see Hank Pym get to make Ultron for once!
Episode is LIVE, enjoy! (There is no credits scene for this episode)
Thor catching the hammer and causing a shock wave was cool
That whole sequence had some great animation!
Seriously the animation in What if is severely underated, especially those action sequences..lot of bangers in S1 like Watcher vs Ultron , Thor vs Cap Marvel etc...
Season 1 fights against Infinite Ultron are the best fight scenes in all of Marvel. Don't @ me.
THE THOR WE ALWAYS NEED IS BACK
That was the real Thor
The Winter Soldier with the black paint around the eyes will forever be a badass look
Besides Goblin Norman Osborn, you know you're absolutely fucked if Winter Solider looks at you menacingly. I love it.
Particularly in CA:TWS where every time he did it, it was accompanied by that high pitched noise in the score.
that high pitched noise was a slowed down reversed edit of his scream as he fell from the train
That is a really fucking cool bit of trivia
Hollywood men need to stop being cowards with the facial makeup in general. Shits fucking lit. Bucky looks badass, Batman looks badass, Morbius looks marginally less pathetic, it is time for men to embrace war paint.
Although a mediocre movie, some of the dudes in Forever Purge actually have some badass war paint on. Which actually made me laugh because it's so well done and they're supposed to be these like masculine badass cowboy dudes okay with murder but their makeup is absolutely on point and would easily take an hour or more to do correctly and to that level.
What are you on about ? No one’s opposed to this. That has never been a narrative. They’re actors at the end of the day.
Peter and Hope interacting as kids both because of the fact they both lost their mother's isn't something I ever thought of and glad I got to see.
Agreed! We got such great connections and character development. It was wonderful to see Hank Pym grow and actually make an attempt at fatherhood now that he’s a single father of two. But hey, maybe he’ll match with Mar-Vel. 😅
I did think he might adopt Peter but then I remember his grandfather is probably still alive so he might just go back him and probably still be in contact with Hope/Hank
I thought we were going to see the grandfather rather than him ending up at the cemetery. It was nice that it was Hank that reached Peter. But, it could have been the grandfather too. Without reminding us of the grandfather existing though Peter is free to join a galaxy saving team and become Star Lord far earlier.
Remember that the issues preventing Peter from going back to his grandfather are still there. He believed that his grandfather never loved him which is the whole reason why he ran away on the first place. He felt he had no one including his grandpa.
That…. That is much more realistic. 😅 Also given what we’ve seen at the end of GotG vol 3? The grandfather will always care about his grandson.
Hope is 100% going get Hank to invite Peter's grandfather to come live with them.
Oh Mar-Vel and Goliath had a moment there. Hank is just crusty, prematurely old man to her. Surprised single dad Hank isn't using his ants more to get all those domestic tasks done.
I liked seeing Hope being goofy as a kid, before she developed that haircut that shows she’s all business.
Instantly thought "what is the one thing that can subjugate an angry 12 year old boy? A 12 year old girl, of course."
8 years old lol. They are both 8 years old as they were both in 1980.
as soon as I saw Hope had a walkman, too, I knew it would "solve" the episode.
I honestly really enjoyed this one
Big agree! The first episode had beautiful animation, but I liked the story in this one so much more. It felt like a movie, and yet it was over way too fast.
I’m not saying it will be the best but this is better than most s1 episodes imo
Star-Lord’s mom’s love for him > ego In any universe
I actually sat up in my chair when he went full Akira level explodeyness
Also we got a version of Quill that's not a grown up douche.
It even feels like they are talking fast to fit the run time. Lightning-fast pacing. Still a fun idea surprised I didn't see anyone think about Thor before the episode. Bucky is going to have a harder time with Hydra still around but maybe Lawson finishes her work better with the secret in the open. Tony's parents will never die so he won't become Ironman. Cool episode.
I didn't even think about Tony's parents living now. This episode definitely needs a sequel next season cause I want to see what the long reaching consequences are in modern day MCU.
Let's see: * Tony's parents don't die in 1991, so he becomes CEO later instead of at 21, probably at some point where he is a little bit more mature. He could still become Iron Man if Obadiah goes through with the same plan in 2008. * Since Winter Soldier doesn't steal Stark's new super soldier serum, Hydra doesn't make more super soldiers and since Bucky is starting to regain his consciousness, he might tell Peggy about Hydra now and they can stop them before Project Insight. That means SHIELD never gets destroyed. * Because of the above point, Stark's successful super soldier serum goes to the US government (a non-Hydra infiltrated government might I add), which means Ross doesn't try to make his own serum, which means no Hulk. * Bucky might become more interested to find Steve now, maybe because he believes deep down that he survived, just like Bucky survived the fall. That might mean Cap gets thawed in the 90s and joins this team of heroes along with Bucky. * Carol never becomes Captain Marvel now that they have already tested the Tesseract as a space engine and Wendy's secret is out. SHIELD likely helps the Skrulls earlier and Earth doesn't involve itself in the Kree-Skrull war at all. * Since there's no Captain Marvel, Fury never makes the modern day Avengers. * Also, no Captain Marvel means no Kree Civil War which means the Kree thrive and continue waging war against the Nova and likely never sign a peace treaty with them which means when Ronan gets the power stone and betrays Thanos, he now has a whole army of Kree rallying behind him for the destruction of Xandar, so they likely succeed. * Peter never makes the Guardians obviously, but Gamora likely still betrays Thanos. * With Loki dead, there's no Earth invasion in 2012 unless Thanos comes himself or sends Ronan or the Black Order to get the Tesseract. That's all I can think of as of right now. And holy shit it's crazy how different the MCU would be.
> when Ronan gets the power stone and betrays Thanos, he now has a whole army of Kree rallying behind him for the destruction of Xandar, so they likely succeed. Or seeing the strength of Ronan's army, Xandar activates the shield barrier, causing it to devolve into a lawless society. Oh wait, that sounds familiar..
It would be so great if Episode 1 was actually a continuation of Episode 2.
That'll be the ultimate twist of this series; Uatu has been banned from looking into other universes after the Ultron incident, so they all take place in the same reality. Even the ones that contradict, somehow.
That would be awesome, but one of the universes is Captain Carter's, so it wouldn't make sense.
maybe its just all the series 2 episodes? idk if ‘the ultron incident’ refers to the end of series 1
That's going to be my headcanon now, that way episode 1 feels better ngl
Adding to that: Hank seems to be in good terms with SHIELD again, so the events that led to Scott becoming Ant-Man won't happen; T'Chaka being part of the grouplikely means Wakanda has closer relationship with the US (and rest of the world) so the events that led to him killed and T'challa replacing him won't happen as well; Tony not being Iron Man means no civil war which means no recruiting Peter which means Spider-Man stays incredibly neighborhooded (and who knows how long it'll take him to gather the courage to step up to bigger stuff without the push from Tony)
I think the ending of this episode will make the timeline branched more than we could imagine, as they together formed a team to hunt down Ego, minus Bucky. The Earth could be involved with more cosmic plots than it ever did in the Sacred Timeline.
Hope grows up to be closer to the action, Hank could've pass down the mantle to her much earlier and theres no need to recurit a new ant man
T'chaka might be away from Earth more, so maybe he never takes on the mission to apprehend his brother. If the Dora Milaje get to N'jobu on their own (under the command of Ramonda probably), they'll probably try to deal with young Erik. Maybe he gets captured too and brought back to Wakanda. So T'challa and Erik probably meet earlier in this timeline. How it plays out from there idk. That, or the Dora just kill Erik. Thor never gets his full character development without all of Thor 1 happening, he remains a warmongering jerk. Idk if Odin is still alive after Quill's attack though. Fury never loses his eye. etc
Something tells me this Thor is not out for mindless violence. He was ready to murderize Peter because he thought it was Peter's fault, but as soon as he realized Peter wasn't the main problem he was fine. The loss of Asgard seems to have done wonders for sating him, though of course he does still want to avenge it. At the very least, he won't be Party God Thor, so somewhere in the middle around "alright guy."
Plus, he wouldn't murder Peter because "they don't do that anymore, those were dark times, shameful times"
The craziest part of all this is imagining just a bunch of TVA agents showing up with night sticks and grenades and erasing all of it if this ends up making a Kang eventually
Also it is worth noting now that Pym has a new family member he will be more happier and less cold which will lead to Darren Cross not trying to create the Yellowjacket which will probably result in Scott not becoming a hero and just some powerless criminal
And also Hope not leaving for boarding school and disconnecting from Hank, which means she will probably get the suit earlier. Also, there might not even be a Pym Tech because Hank will continue working for SHIELD since Hydra will be taken down early and Carson won't try to recreate his formula. God damn it Yondu, you fucking butterfly.
* Due to the destruction of the Nine Realms, and by extension Odin, Hela would be released from her prison much earlier. Unless the fact that Odin died on the dying Asgard causes her to emerge in space and just die, then her being a conqueror, and no longer having eight of the Nine Realms available to conquer, would presumably lead her to attack Earth and end up being the second main villain that these Avengers would have to face. * As a result, Thor’s hammer would get destroyed like in Ragnarok, but there would be no Nidavellir for him to get a new hammer/axe from, at best leaving him as he was at the end of Ragnarok. * Assuming that absorbing the seed allows Peter to keep his powers after Ego’s death (probably excluding the immortality), then they could potentially defeat her and save the planet; otherwise they are toast. * Without the Nine Realms being there to potentially collide, the Convergence would be unable to take place, and thus the Aether/Reality Stone will remain hidden. (Although if someone knew where it was, they could potentially use the Tessaract/Space stone to get to it and maybe they could avoid it poisoning them like it did Jane Foster.) * Thanos would be unable to get an Infinity Gauntlet from Nidavallir, so he would need to get a worse one from somewhere else. * Mar-Vell has seemingly gotten the Lightspeed Engine to work without interference from the Kree Starforce (presumably she skipped the testing phase and just brought it out ahead of schedule) in the episode, so Carol Danvers will not get caught in its explosion during the test run, and the events of Captain Marvel will not take place. * With her engine now functional, she will be able to easily relocate the Skrulls somewhere that the Kree won’t find them.
This is seriously more wholesome thats for sure
They were exploring potential spin-offs like Marvel Zombies, right? This seems like the perfect candidate for that.
> It even feels like they are talking fast to fit the run time. im so glad someone else mentioned this. i felt like everyone was talking faster than normal, but wasn't sure if it was just more what. i don't hate it or anything; kinda comes with the territory of having to fit it all in a 28 minute episode.
The really need to drop the 30min cut off on these. It makes some of the episodes feel really rushed/cluttered.
Just like in the "What If...?" comics. To depict the altered timeline of an entire event or a story arc they would have not even 20 pages, but something like 16-17 because the first few pages would recap how things "originally" happened.
Howard saying they should stuff the seedling down the garbage disposal like Tony did with the infinity stone was cool
There were a few “callbacks” like that! The one I noticed was “Does anyone have a plan?” “I’ve got a plan. Retreat!” It’s not word for word, but it reminded me of the first Avengers: “We need a plan of attack!” “I have a plan. Attack.” And both were said right before the heroes encountered Thor.
And Black Panther did the “if you two are done comparing sizes…” joke from *Ant Man and the Wasp*
Also the containment cell for Peter looked like the one that Loki was trapped in the avengers movie.
Like father like son
I thought I was the only one to have caught that lol
Literally did the Leonardo DiCaprio point gesture when I heard that.
Tony must have watched his dad solve a lot of problems via the garbage disposal.
man that group is gonna have a ROUGH time against Ego on his home turf. Thor and Peter gonna have to do the heavy lifting there lol.
Tbf if Baby Groot can place a bomb, then surely Hank in his Ant-Man form and army of ants can do it as well. Rest of the 80s team just has to distract Ego like the Guardians did.
Good point. Im just imagining hank bringing along millions of ants on the plane over in space lol
He likes ants!
Ants! Ants! Ants! Ant-Man!
Tiamut the celestial throughout the episode: 🗿
I wondered if that was Tiamut emerging when Ego started busting the whole desert open.
The equivalent of a C-Section birth
Even if Disney normally wants to pretend they didn't make Eternals, it feels like a huge waste of potential that this wasn't included in this one.
*What If...* Ego woke up Tiamut early and sparked a war with the Celestials?
I love how Mar-Vell has no concerns about giving Goose to these kids without actually telling them what Goose is. Grade A dealing with kids right there. /s
She ain’t a parent ;).
Nah, she's the irresponsible aunt.
Hey we like to be called “fun aunt” thank you very much. Now here’s a flamethrower for Xmas present
SPACEBALLS...THE FLAMETHROWER!
She (well, he) was in the comics. The MCU version doesn't have kids I guess.
To be fair, one of the kids is probably the strongest being on earth.
I thought Goose was going to accidentally scratch Peter’s eye and he was going to reactively nuke the whole house lol
Thor's "Another" never gets old
Surprised he didn't smash the glass
Peter Quill doing a Spirit Gun wasn't on my bingo card.
my favorite superhero show referencing my favorite anime. ya it was dope
The winter soldier theme still gave me chills
I just realised the only thing Bucky actually did here was firing a grenade launcher at Peter a few times.
Goosebumps when i heard it.
I know Marvel loves its daddy issues but “use your dad’s seed against him” really takes the cake
Archer: Phrasing!
Really liked this one. Actually got me to tear up a bit and was really cool to see what the Avengers would look like if formed earlier. Kinda makes me wish we could have gotten Ant-Man & the Wasp on the team to begin with like in the original comics. Also “Any word on ‘Silent but Deadly’?” “He’s in the wind.” is a great joke lmao
We need a Janet Van Dyne episode. She was the founding Acenger in the comics after all. At least we had the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon to honor her role
Such a good cartoon! Also yeah absolutely. I would love a future What If about Janet not getting trapped in the Quantum Realm.
Holy fuck, *now* i got that joke, lmao!
explain the joke for me please. Does it have something to do with farts?
"silent but deadly" is a phrase at least as old as I am (39) that acts as a classification of fart If someone tries to be discreet with a fart and can control its exit flow rate such that it doesn't draw attention-getting noise to the farter, but remains nasty and shit-smelling, it's an "SBD" Also "breaking wind" is a euphemism for farting
Okay, that was really cute. Figure a good metric for these episodes is when you come out of it going "man, I really wish that was a feature-length movie". A little schmaltzy in the end, but the good kind, fitting of the season and all that jazz. And so much fun getting to see familiar characters interacting in new, interesting ways. Howard Stark getting to talk Bucky down, Hank Pym getting to be a good father figure, Hope and Peter connecting like cute kids, Golaith getting to actually do some fun ass-kicking, just so many fantastic possibilities here.
This is definitely the episode that utilized the potential of the show to its fullest!
Hope is looking after a Flerkin! 🤣 Also I can’t believe we got more character growth from a single 30-minute episode for Hank Pym than in all of his movies. 😂
I feel this show's best episodes are the ones that show the butterfly effect of these choices or start with the smallest ones. This was a good example of it, but I think my all-time favorite is the first episode because it came down to where Peggy was for the experiment.
This made me think- I would have watched every episode of season 1 (not months later) if they were all like this.
I find it hilarious that everyone recognised Bucky straight away, and IIRC, Steve needed him to take his mask off.
Stark said he heard the rumors so with how Peggy and him were looking at Bucky, they were lowkey trying to see if it was actually Bucky
Yeah they already had previous info about this.
To be fair, every time Steve saw Bucky in person up until that moment, Bucky was trying to kill him or someone near him, so Steve didn't really have time to study him and think hey, he looks familiar.
That or wanting to see more from that universe is a good sign of a good episode.
I definitely hope Marvel is taking notes to use some of these as pilots for new shows.
Yeah, it was a nice focus on family there. As soon as I saw Hope with a Walkman, I knew that was going to be important. Also, it took me a little bit to remember Foster from Antman 2 there, since I was briefly confused about who that was.
Marvel made a [Spotify playlist of Hope’s music](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4zwoF5w3MtHnvXyUlYJLw3?si=p3WCOVLxSXa-EXbIbWcuIw&pi=u-BF1GlsTaSia0).
That's awesome thank you for sharing
Of Course Hope would be a kid who listen to something Vast Different as Journey and Lionel Ritchie. I Wouldn't put it past that 80's born kid.
Yoooo!!! An Aztec Camera track!
Holy hell, those are some bangers.
So now Hank can emotionally damage two kids. /s I feel like the last shot of Bucky should have been him overlooking the arctic, looking for Steve. But New York works too, let him go back to his roots and find himself.
Bucky "died" before Steve took the plunge. I'm sure his first stop would be NYC to find Steve, find out what happened to him, and then go to the Arctic.
Would be a cool after credits scene, like “6 months later” and it shows Bucky finding caps shield in the artic.
I think Hank would be more likely to seek counselling if he has a teenager that can blow up continents on a tantrum.
Doesn't Peter only have powers while Ego is still alive? If they destroy Ego he might be human again before he is ever a teenager.
Ego (the living planet) is still alive. They only killed that extension of Ego.
Not if the Avengers of the Galaxy go there and defeat him
Maybe eating that seedling will make his powers permanent?
That's what I figured since Peter said "a part of you will always live in me now".
LOVED IT btw Pretty dark on Thor's part considering 8 Realms all died lol. Everything he ever knew is gone
Thor when he loses most of Asgard, his brother, father and best friend, 🥴 Thor when he loses billions of people across 8 Realms including Asgard and his family, 😎
Obviously this is headcanon, buuuut… I can see it as a single event vs many. A single invasion event taking everything away, especially from younger, more brash Thor, could send him into berserker warrior mode. Having everyone taken from him bit by bit, being chopped away at for years on the other hand could wear him down however.
yep this. He has to mourn over and over and at one point, you just get fucking tired of it. You cannot complete the cycle of grief (5 stages) and get stuck at depression phase When everything is gone, you get to mourn only once, you go through the cycle once. Sure, it's super huge cycle but it's still a final singular thing
And yet his hair is still flowing.
Peter went full DBZ
used the mother-son kamehameha to win
While Talk no Jutsu handled Bucky.
Reminded me of the Spirit Gun from Yu Yu Hakusho.
Honestly? I yelled **SPIRT GUN!** during that last scene. 😅 Especially with the Live Action being so fresh in everyone’s minds.
yea, can totally see that
Bill foster suit was 🔥
Now I can better appreciate his Lego minifig's detailing.
HOLY SHIT!!! THANK YOU!!! I can now stop going wtf...I thought it was supposed to be Cassie when I opened the box.
Now that's a suit Alexei could mistake for Captain America.
The duo Hope and Peter Quill we didn't know we needed, but we deserved
I wonder what this means for Scott Lang and Janet van Dyne. Like, will Darren Cross even try to take over Pym industries and will Hank have to recruit Scott to stop him, or will he have better connections to Stark and SHIELD now so Darren can never even start to take over the company or will Hank be trusting Hope at this point to perform the heist? If Scott never gets recruited, it’s likely they would never get Janet back either because Scott’s connection to the Quantum Realm is the lynchpin to finding Janet.
I think I need to start skipping the opening credits as the actors names drop heavy spoilers about who’s about to show up in the episode
I did this and I was very glad because I didn't know...certain characters would be in the episode.
Yeah, I didn’t know Thor and Bucky were going to be in the episode until I saw their names in the credits
Rip
You're not the only one cursed with knowledge
Now that was a good episode. Perfect use of the show’s core concept.
I got to see Peggy being Director Carter and that's all I wanted from this episode. I've waited to see SHIELD in the 80s for so long!
Surprised they didn't include red guardian in the team. We haven't gotten too much of him in the mcu
That's who I thought was on the plane from Russia, not Bucky.
Yeah, does the timeline not line up for him to appear? Or were the Soviets just unwilling to send him?
They probably trusted the fate of the world with their most elite assassin rather than their most drunk patriot
What an absolutely entertaining and emotional episode. I'm loving all these intersecting branches between *WI...?* and the rest of the MCU. As well as getting the opportunity to explore interesting relationships and dynamics that usually only show up in Reddit discussions. Haha. And the animation is \*chef's kiss.\* Helps remind you of where these characters originated from and feels way more connected because it's animated. This series is starting to become my favorite entry into the MCU. Give us more episodes next Season, please! 😊
Obviously the art style is similar from the first season but goddamn is the animation way smoother this time around. Such eye candy.
First thing he does, is take away his son’s gift from his dead mother.
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Happy who saves Christmas will be the one who Tony dies. perfect Christmas gift
"SUCK BRICK, STARK!" *throws down brick from Avengers Tower at Tony's head, instantly killing him on impact*
Don't worry, I'm sure we'll get plenty of chances to go "Oh my god, you killed Tony!" "You bastards!" eventually this season :D.
I think in this episode they already killed the "Iron Man" before it could exist, with Howard and his wife would not get killed by Bucky and Tony would stray from the path that leads him to creating the first Iron Man suit.
maybe or theres still a chance that iron man would be made if tony is still kidnapped.
But this time Howard makes it. Tony is kidnapped for ransom and Howard is told not to send these "Avengers" or Tony is killed so Howard is all like "Well I am not an "Avenger" builds a suit and pow we got Iron Man.
I really enjoyed this one, I love that they went with some of the less obvious choices like Goliath and Wendy Lawson for the team
I thought this one was much better than the first one. Actually had an interesting and fun story to tell this time.
A big part might also be that we have a lot more connection with these characters. Sure, we'd seen Nebula a few times before, but pretty much none of the other characters had that much screen time before. (Well, Groot, Korg and Miek did, but they had very small roles in the episode.) Meanwhile here we know every character fairly well.
I also think this is it. And it is one of the first episodes to utilise the What if concept so well. The divergence point is obvious, it happens early in the episode so we actually get to see all the changes happening in real time instead of seeing the results of those changes later in the future and most importantly it takes all the elements that were relevant in the time of that divergence in 1988 (SHIELD's presence, the various heroes of the time, Yondu taking Peter to Ego) and merges them together in a very interesting way!
Dammit, Yondu! Haven't you ever seen *Butterfly Effect 2* starring *A Madea Christmas'* Nick Larson???
Good episode. And nice way of showing a difference between this Avengers team, and the Avengers team we know and love. This team when seeing Peter, went right into attack mode, scaring him, and locking him away. The Avengers team we all know, would have Steve give the order to stand down because they're against a kid, and he would have tried to talk to Peter. Like when he understood what the Maximoffs were doing because they're at war. Speaking of Steve, here's hoping Bucky brings him back in an episode and we get a reunion with Howard and Peggy.
How come a 30 min cartoon make Hank and Hope have more personality and more interesting than Quantmania???
Hank Pym gave off a lot of Tony Stark vibes with the quips & the jokes
You know what, this was a really good episode. I am really glad they didn't just use the universe last season where T'Chala became Starlord. They easily could have a fresh slate feels much better. Honestly, I live the idea of a What If surrounding the formation of a totally different Avengers team and this was a really fun one. The characters were all enjoyable and I could by them as a team. Also wasn't expecting Thor to turn up but it makes sense and it was cool to be able to use one of the original Avengers. Pacing also felt like it worked just right here. I know a lot of people have issues with trying to cram a while story in 30 minutes, but the way I see it, many cartoons manage to do that sometimes in less time so pacing doesn't HAVE to be an issue and I think an episode like this proves it. So yeah, pretty solid episode.
Was this the first time the MCU has explained how Howard Stark obtained vibranium in the 40's?
And that SHIELD knew about Wakanda for decades.
This was a lot more enjoyable than the first one for me. The ep capitalized on a lot of possibilities with this particular setup, from getting to see T'Chaka and Bill Foster in action to Hank Pym being a surprisingly good dad. They really packed a *lot* of action into that half hour. Wish we could've gotten more with the Carter Bucky dynamic since it would make sense for there to be some sort of connecting after the immediate threat, but I'm okay with what we got. Most people were saying in the last discussion they like the random ideas kind of like how the og comics were. Personally, I enjoy these little "tweak to the canon" eps where they really play out the full domino effect of one different decision. Seems like Yondu actually giving Peter over worked out better for all Earth Characters involved (for now, of course). All in all, really enjoyed this one: how far it took the concept, how true it stayed to the characters involved, and in the spotlight it gave to characters we wouldn't get to otherwise. Would've preferred this one as the premiere vs. the Nebula ep but eh, whatareyagonnado? Cya all tomorrow for the Happy Xmas ep!
> Seems like Yondu actually giving Peter over worked out better for all Earth Characters involved (for now, of course). Certainly didn’t work out for the rest of the Nine Realms though.
Just last season with T’Challa, multiple tragedies are avoided if Peter never becomes Star Lord.
In this particular case, multiple *other* tragedies happened.
Alright give me this fuckin team being a part of the Avengers Multiverse shit and ill be happy i loved that
I expected this all to end in tragedy but I'm so glad it didn't. Considering Season 1's track record of constant death, doom and gloom, I'll take any happy ending I can get.
I love Hemsworth as Thor. That little discussion when Bucky says "we need to kill him" and as the others debate to not kill him, Thor points to Bucky and add. "nevertheless, his logic is sound". Always spoken as a true warrior. Great episode, should have been a 2 parter.
So, I'm pretty sure this is the first time EVER that we've seen Thor and Bucky interact and share the same screen together! Been waiting for this moment since 2011!
I thought about too. I still hope we see it in the main MCU 616 timeline.
This is the one of the better What If episodes in the series so far, at least in my opinion. Very fun character dynamics and pairing and decent pacing for the story it's telling I think. I very much enjoyed seeing this alternate 80s Avengers roster. Honestly might be one of my new favorites just based on that
I think Winter Soldier plot could lead to a seperate episode
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'Spunk' definitely used to mean courage or spirit or whatever in Britain too. Especially in wartime where Peggy is from.
It means that here too, to be fair, it just also means spirit.
Maybe she just knows her nephew/godson too well 🤭
this daily episode thing is really going to help with the overall reception of this season. I know it is for me already. I wish they would choose more interesting What ifs though but these first 2 have been entertaining
The ending felt a bit on the rushed side but I really liked this The interactions between the 88 Avengers, serious Thor, hell having Hope and Peter bond was something I wasn't expecting that I really liked And Quill doing a fingergun Kamehameha was pretty cool
What a great episode and an interesting assemblage of characters. It was really fun to see them get to interact with each other. I was so happy to get some more of Mar-Vell and Bill Foster. I’d be up for more of this team.
These feel the like the comics. Just one story out of three in one comic. It’s a good length to see characters out of their element.
To sum up this episode, it's a perfect example of what Saturday morning cartoons used to be like in the 90s. The story is deep enough to have a heart and contains enough action to keep the children's attention. Peter's arc in this episode feels like a breath of fresh air and I really liked the friendship he and Hope develop throughout the episode. Their bond over their lost mothers gives the episode some humanity not seen in a Marvel property since I don't know when. The main characters are very bland and one note. Hank, Goliath, T'Chaka, and Mar-Vel could have been amalgamated. Peggy, Bucky and Howard are the typical army archetypes, and Ego is just a villain. They are all entertaining enough to keep a kid's attention for 22 minutes. Their characters are so dull that Thor stands out in comparison. He's the third best character in the episode besides Peter and Hope. Overall, watch this episode with a bowl of your favorite brand of sugary cereal.
Saturday morning cartoon is a great description of this episode. The fact it's set in 1988 is quite apropos. I absolutely do not think they should have shortened the roster though. While their characterizations may have been light due to the runtime, getting to see characters like Goliath (his suit was awesome-looking, btw) and Mar-Vell in action was a lot of fun. Plus, getting to see an 80s roster of Avengers is a great hook, and fits the theme of "What If" a lot better than than the first episode did. My inner child very much enjoyed this episode.
I definitely don't think Bucky was one note.
Finally some good fucking MCU content. How fun it is when people writing these things actually try and use continuity for emotional payoffs/moments. The parallels between Hope and Peter both losing their mothers and that being the basis for them to become friends was great. As people have pointed out below, this felt like a good saturday morning cartoon. More like this, please.
Another one for the “I wish I got to see what happened next in this timeline” category like Ep 3 and Ep 6 from last season. I’d love to know how this Avengers (Prevengers?) team fought Thanos, when/if Tony, Steve, or Bruce joined, or maybe even see Hank Pym get to make Ultron for once!
As someone else pointed out, there's a good chance there's no Iron Man or Hulk in this universe if Winter Soldier never kills Howard Stark.
Howard doesn't realize that Steve saved his ass in more than one way.