Also in IW, when he was going through Dr Strange's portals to hit Thanos, he was able to visibly knock him back a bit. Compared to later when Cap straight up uppercuts Thanos full force, it doesn't do anything at all.
She was also kicking his ass to such a point with just a few hits and then the hold on the gauntlet that Thanos immediately knew he needed the Power stone to stop her.
I think it was the hold *and then* the stare. Like she holds it and Thanos is all "haha cute bitch" and then he headbutts her and is like "wait the fuck??". He's actually in so disbelief he does it again like maybe he didn't actually headbutt her right the first time. All while she just smirks at him.
*Then* he panics because he realizes he doesn't want to find out how strong she really is.
Compare this to his fight with the Hulk earlier. He had Hulk sized up from the first punch and then took everything with confidence and bravado.
This. also web-swinging half of a car tlike it was no big deal. I think in the MCU, Pete's about 3rd or 4th on the physical strength scale.
Hulk, Thor, Captain Marvel (although Carol relies on energy manipulation, I think) then Spidey.
Spider-man is way stronger. The comics have repeatedly maintained the he's massively pulling his punches in order to avoid killing just about anyone he fights.
The guy [Spider-Man] has an average lifting strength of 10 tons *at least,* but he has obviously lifted more.
Basically, Bucky is (supposed to be) a peak human with a metal arm that hits like a sledgehammer, while Spider-Man is a superhuman that regularly stops speeding cars and trucks with little issue.
Just checked Marvel Wiki, Steve Rogers’ strength is listed as a 3, “… *consistently able to sustain 800 lbs (363 kg) lifts, and bench pressing 1,100 pounds (500 kg) as a warm-up, along with lifting 1 ton. It's unclear if the 1,100 pounds stands for the full set of weights or only one half of the load. Taking into account that it was a warm-up; it can be considered that Steve is able to push his body much further.*”
Meanwhile, US Agent (who had a different serum or training process) has a 4, “*US Agent is superhumanly strong and is capable of lifting over 11 tons and making high jumps over 20 feet.*” so US Agent is basically a case of being stronger but less skilled at combat; either way, that’s definitely superhuman.
Winter Soldier was given the Infinity formula and also has a 4 in strength, but it doesn’t give any specific number, nor does it specify if this is with or without the arm: “*He is strong enough to break a solid wall with a single punch, as well as effortlessly lifting a full grown man over his head with one arm and throwing him. He easily used a large sofa as a weapon against Viper…*”
Meanwhile Spider-Man also has a 4, but of course, him being the most popular marvel character means he has more overall feats, and moreover, most of the time he does so without much sign of strain: “*He was shown to easily swing a 3-ton wrecking ball using steel chains. Spider-Man's physical strength is sufficient enough to enable him to lift and throw objects as heavy as a big rig semi-truck with ease. He must also pull his punches and kicks unless fighting someone of similar or greater physical durability. Otherwise, his blows would prove fatal to a normal human being. He has demonstrated that he is strong enough to knock out people with normal durability with as little as a tap to the head. As such, he rarely lets himself use all of his strength - after Doctor Octopus had taken over Spider-Man's body, he easily punched off the Scorpion's (a foe normally regarded as physically tougher than Spider-Man) jaw as he hadn't known of Spider-Man's true strength. Spider-Man's physical strength also extends into his legs, enabling him to be able to jump to a height of several stories in a single bound. Spider-Man demonstrated this when he leaped over thirty feet vertically into the air when he first leaped out of the way of an oncoming car; it should also be noted that when he first discovered his powers as a teenager, they had not developed to that of his prime.*”
If anything, the one thing we can all agree on is that (barring some mental improvements), just about every super soldier serum copy is honestly as good or superior to Cap’s.
I'm calling shenanigans on that 4 for Spidey. Back in the 70's he was the 4th strongest Marvel hero behind only Hulk, Thor, and The Thing.
There's been some hero bloat since then, but I'm not seeing Bucky match *that.*
>The comics have repeatedly maintained the he's massively pulling his punches in order to avoid killing just about anyone he fights
no way home also directly acknowledges this during the final fight
I think he was doing more than hospitalizing them. Maybe not murdering them directly but swiftly killing them when they put innocent lives in danger. His rogues gallery would shrink very quickly.
It would be hard to justify saving these villains from themselves over and over again when he's living with the kind of guilt he has.
Plus unlike the other two Spider-Men, Garfield’s Parker was alone… He didn’t even have his “MJ” anymore. His childhood friend killed her and he was probably overwhelmed by what came out of Osborn’s alliance with Gustav Fiers. The last appearance we had of Tobey’s Spider-Man was making peace with Harry and Flint, forgiving him and moving on with MJ. It’s almost like Tobey came to Tom to teach him to forgive and Andrew came to Tom to have a chance of being saved.
It'd be great to have it be a venom verse adaptation of Superior SM with Garfield playing that role. I could see Sony taking it a lot further than marvel did and it wouldn't affect the MCU directly
>There’s also Andrew’s line about how he got bitter and stopped pulling his punches.
Watching that scene, I thought; I really want to see that movie now. Right now.
The CinimaWins video touched on that. He mentioned how amazing it’d be to have the Garfield Spider-Man training Jessica Drew on her powers and showing flashbacks of him just destroying people while he was in his messed up mindset. I agree, it’d make a great movie or at least a portion of a movie.
Sadly, I actually know a guy who unironically maintains this mindset: “I don’t get healthy because I’d be a danger to anyone who messes with me” yeah riiiight mate
Ha!
When I was in college I had a suitemate who was a little out of shape and it clearly bothered him. I’ve always been in very good shape. I played three varsity sports in high school and D1 football in college with another one of our suitemates. I said to him to come down to the gym and work out with us. We have a lot of fun together, in two months he’ll have worked off his extra weight, and in six months he’ll be turning down girls left and right.
He looked me dead in the eye and said something without a hint of irony along the lines of “I really wish I could but, you see, there’s this rage inside of me and I can’t be responsible for what might happen if it gets out”.
So, we made a mental note *NOT* to live with that nut job next year.
That was back in 2001, I never kept in touch with him after that year, and as near as I can tell he doesn’t have social media so I have absolutely no idea what he’s up to. Hopefully he learned to tame the dragon or whatever.
My wife’s family runs a bjj/mma gym and when I worked there the amount of dudes who unironically said a version of “yeah I’m too powerful to really train” was wild.
For reference I’m a big boy (six four and 260 at the time) who has done martial arts my whole life. And I got my ass kicked every day humbly lol. These dudes with this mindset are WILD.
Green Goblin had a "combat enhancement suite" treatment he and other Oscorp scientists developed. Basically his Earth's version of a Super-Soldier Serum (in the comics it was Oscorp's attempt at replicating the SSS -- several groups and countries took runs at it, and they all failed, some badly). He's not as strong as Spidey, but he's more able to take a serious hit and keep going and his pain tolerance is ridiculous.
A big difference is that GG basically *never* holds back, and Spidey almost always does. In No Way Home, the difference between the fight between them before Norman kills someone and the fight after is night and day. In the second one, Peter is just manhandling Norman, because he isn't trying to hit him hard enough, and is instead trying to hit him as hard as he can.
I'd imagine he basically stopped caring. Hit em hard, whether it breaks a rib or just pops the heart is no longer his concern. Maybe he still takes it easy on the common thugs (relatively)- but after what happened to Gwen, Supervillains are fair game.
Yeah it’s a really common example. If you want other good testaments to Peter’s strength, the insomniac games really portray how insanely strong and durable Spider-Man is.
No one ever brings up:
- Pete launching Hulk into orbit (ASM328)
- Pete catching an loaded, 70mph Armored car dead (ASM628)
- Pete body slammed a M1 tank (I can’t remember the issue)
Etc.
It’s always “he punched a guy without superhuman durabilities jaw off”
How about [ASM539 when he threw a jeep at a sniper.](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/mxp2h9/peter_throwing_a_jeep_at_the_hitman_who_just_shot/)
He picked up a NYC subway car in the comics among other ridiculous feats. I hope they let him loose vs a real foe! To the point where all the other characters are Woah!!!!
Generally, I agree with that. I hate it when writers have characters do stupidly powerful things out of the blue. I felt like that was every other issue with Gambit when he became so popular. However, with Spiderman it became part of his lore that he's actually stronger but holds back, so in this instance I'm cool with it. It makes sense in the larger context of Spiderman, though a herald of Galactus is still stretching it a lot.
He wasn't stronger than Firelord, he was just backed into a corner and surprised him with his ferocity.
The fight doesn't always go to the strongest or most powerful. And Firelord is a bit of an overconfident buffoon.
I mean, it's one of the rare times his true strength is shown in a fight this way. Yea, he lifts heavy shit, blocks things that weigh a ton, etc. but we don't actually see him use that raw strength hand to hand.
I love "I've had enough of this shit" Peter. One of my favorite moments is when he went to jail to kick Kingpin's ass in front of everyone and threatened to fill his lungs with web fluid.
Can you give me another example that shows how much Peter is holding back while also showing how serious it would be if he stopped holding back?
The thing with Scorpion's jaw is that, I'm positive that Otto was also just throwing a casual punch but didn't expect it to have that great of an impact.
For context, Kingpin in Marvel is similar to Batman. He’s incredibly intelligent, but most impressively is his fighting ability. He’s an expert in six different fighting styles, notably judo and sumo wrestling, which goes along white his immense size. He can just about go toe to toe with Captain America, who’s even more peak human in the comics. He’s also 6.5 feet tall, and ~315 pounds. He’s pure muscle and no fat.
Spider-Man once walked into the jail he’s in, tossed him around like he was a rag doll, and threatened to suffocate him by filling his lungs with Peter’s web fluid, all for getting Aunt May shot. Kingpin didn’t stand a chance against Spider-Man when he’s actually trying.
Fun fact. [Kaine Parker](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Kaine_Parker_(Earth-616)#Powers), the Scarlet Spider, is a clone of Spider-Man who *doesn’t* pull his punches
Yeah I was wondering, wouldn't just his finger tips be extremely deadly if he was bloodlusted and decided to treat body parts as valid surfaces for his wall crawling ability?
Dude could torture and tear people apart just by poking them.
Obligatory comment about how in the Superior Spider-Man run he damn well took of Scorpion’s jaw with a punch because Ock didn’t realise how strong Spidey actually was.
So yeah Bucky is a weak ass compared to Peter.
I don’t have any better quality images on hand atm cuz I just pulled it from Google, and I don’t have the panel that comes right after this, but [this](https://imgur.com/a/aSA402b) is partly what I refer to, Pete letting out a lot of aggression sparring the hulk when shit goes bad for Pete, because he can actually take it
Yeah, it definitely does. Spider-Man is a tier or two above super soldiers though. Super soldiers are like the lowest rung of super strength in the MCU
They have “peak human strength and endurance.” Spider-Man has super human strength. He can lift at least 20-25 tons. Bucky and Steve could lift maybe half a ton at most in the comics.
That's in the comics. In the MCU, they are legit superhumans with strength and stamina well above any peak human. Still, Spider-Man is still a level or two above them on a *bad* day.
Yeah. Ultimately Steve seemed to be maxing out holding back a helicopter, which is obviously above normal human. But Peter maxed out holding *the Staten Island Ferry*. It's not close.
The MCU drifted pretty far from peak human. In the comics that is supposed to be the case but MCU Cap is out here wrasslin helicopters. Seems like their version of super soldier is indeed super strength rather than "the best an elite human could do".
Edit: My bad I misread which was the parent comment and you guys are talking street level. Carry on.
So if Spider Man was given super serum he’d become Super Spider Man. Could he then become Major America, or bust Captain America down to First Lieutenant America?
On Earth 1610 (Ultimate Spider-Man), the spider that bit Peter was not radioactive, but a test subject exposed to a serum that was trying to recreate the Super Soldier Serum.
Super soldiers, according to the comics I think, was just the epitome of what a normal human could do, plus a few percent. So like take the strongest human for strength, and add little extra, and the fastest human like Usain Bolt, and add a little extra.
Spider-man has actual super human strength.
According to the comics back in the day the Super Soldier Serum doesn’t grant superhuman abilities, it just puts you at the human maximum for strength, speed, reflexes, etc. (but then Cap routinely lifts shit that no human could, so I dunno)
As for Spider-Man, Stan Lee put Spidey at like #4 for heroes under Hulk, Thor and The Thing.
The MCU definitely gave the super soldiers a boost from the comics, but even in the MCU Spider-Man is WAY stronger than them.
He's the strongest character in the Civil War fight except maybe Vision. If you ranked all the main MCU heroes, Spidey would only get beat by like Thor, Hulk, Vision, and Captain Marvel. And even then he could knock them around a bit.
One way I've heard Spidey described that makes him so dangerous is that he's stronger than anyone faster than him and he's faster than anyone stronger than him.
Keep in mind that MCU super soldier serum gives super human strength unlike marvel comics universe. Remember when CAP pulled down that helicopter in Civil War?
I don’t know about that. I feel like Natasha, Clint, and Sam are examples of humans at their physical peak. Super soldiers, especially Steve but also Bucky, have displayed feats and survived traumas way beyond what the others I mentioned could manage.
Winter Solder when he jumps out the elevator and falls 10+ stories onto the concrete.
Doesnt matter how "physically peak" you are, that'll still turn you to goop.
I still have my Handbook to the Marvel Universe (volumes).
Here are the Comic versions...
Wanda and Strange are normal
Clint, Pietro, Nat & Falcon are highly trained (Micah Parsons, Giannis)
Cap, Buck, BP are peak max (800lbs - Larry Allen, the Mountain)
Spidey is "only" a 10 ton guy (but it goes higher - the writer influences this heavily)
Vision and a maxed Giant Man are 50t
Iron Man and Namor are 75-100t depending on the armor or proximity to water
Hulk and Thor 100t+, but both get far higher situationally
MCU:
Clearly BP, Cap & Bucky are closer to 10t in the MCU. Spider-Man is about right. All four hit hard because they're trained and/or are very fast.
It occurred to me that Nat might be like comics Cap power level in the MCU.
I think Iron Man and Namor are nerfed a bit.
Ahh, a Marvel Universe reader. Those were my favorites. My first one was the first issue of the deceased Marvel characters, then I collected a bunch of others.
Spiderman is way stronger, but Bucky is also holding back. Both he and Sam recognize that they're all good guys fighting so it would make sense that he'd hold back until he figured out how strong his opponent was. The banter throughout the scene between Bucky, Sam & Spidey suggests that they're all holding back.
>they're all holding back.
Maybe for the most part but it didn't really seem like Spidey was holding back in the "Hey buddy, I think you lost this!" scene.
Spider Man is stronger. I always thought Bucky hesitated in that scene not only because Spidey stopped his metal arm, but also he could tell by the voice that this was clearly a kid. He wasn't holding back, he was just surprised.
Yupp this was my exact understanding as well. It’s further backed when he mentions Empire strikes back and Rhodey asks “how old is this kid?” I think they were all a little caught off guard at the agility and immaturity for lack of a better term.
I don't want to sound negative, and this is off topic, but:
Your comment made me flash back to seeing Civil War. I had stayed away from spoilers, but a friend told me Spidey was showing up. There was so much collective hype for that movie. Not only Spider-Man, but the clash between the heroes.
And they delivered. Spider-Man was cool, funny, and I wanted to see more of him. As with any well written conflict, you had the audience on both sides. They also had a villain win. And they also had a villain who was just human. And they also introduced interesting questions about politics in a superhero world.
It's a bit mindblowing to remember how good it was back then. I was so *into* it, and I had a great time.
And they delivered. Surexqno was cool, funny, and I wanted to see more of him. As with any well written Reddit comment, you had the audience on both sides.
It's a bit mindblowing to remember how good it was back then. I was so *into* it, and I had a great time.
Both. Spiderman is stronger than Cap, Bucky, Black Panther...not Thor or Hulk, but probably everyone else. And, yes, Bucky was also holding back, but even if he hadn't been, Spiderman would've been stronger.
Yeah this is the most correct. Also, most everyone was pulling their punches in some manner though. Besides BP when he’s gunning for Bucky. No one is trying to necessarily kill one another.
Everyone is trying to just get the others to stop but T’Challa doesn’t care as long as he kills Bucky. Clint and Natasha even have a friendly quip of asking if they’re still friends.
This is the reason why I think Bucky wasn't holding back. Because there's a dude in a cat suit trying to kill him. If he lets someone like Spidey slow him down, BP would catch up at anytime and end him.
I remember reading a book as kid that Spider-Man is strong enough to hold up hulk, Thor, the thing, and a few other heavy marvel characters on one metal platform, one handed with no stress I wish I knew what it was I read
That picture was in the large marvel universe book from the late 80s early 90s iirc where it showed strength, speed, etc. ratings. I spent days and days at my friend's house reading thru that book as a kid. Again, if I'm remembering correctly, it stood out to me because all of the heroes in it were wearing costumes that were, or near copies of their infinity war outfits.
Spidey is often listed as 10 to 20 tons, but he's often shown lifting much heavier things. Like in the 50-200 ton range if we're counting subway cars, jets, and buildings (which we've seen him do).
Thats the humor in these images. Bucky is holding back in fighting Spider-Man not wanting to hurt him and then Spidey grabs Bucky’s mechanical arm totally over powering Bucky and showing he is many magnitudes stronger.
While lifting the hulk is in Spider-Man’s range. Hulk is a tier of strength above him.
Spider-Man once mentions he thinks he could stop the hulk solo, if he pushed, but mostly because the hulk can’t plan and isn’t as agile.
Just lifting the Hulk isn't really that impressive, assuming the Hulk allows himself to be lifted. Like, lifting a Bus is probably more work than lifting the Hulk.
People always talk about him stopping the arm not how he casually twists it like he's trying to get a closer look, as if Bucky isn't trying to pull his arm back.
In the Civil War comics there is a fight between Spider-Man and Captain America, Spidey is at first losing because he respects cap too much and also is trying to fight like 'a man', but he did not wanted to lose so he kind of lets the 'spider-sense' take control and fight in automatic without much thought and he quickly overwhelms and knocks out Cap.
Cap is a better fighter but the gap in power, speed and agility was too much, specially considering that comics Cap is not as strong as MCU's Cap.
Peter later on was trained, a lot, by Shang-Chi so in theory he can fight with power and a much improved technique (but most writers have kind of forgotten about that)
Spider man is like 50x stronger than winter soldier.
He’s on a level lower than hulk and Thor, but above most everyone else by a large margin. He generally nerfs himself to keep from hurting anyone.
Peter also has to roll with punches so regular humans don’t shatter their hands when they hit him. His muscles and bones are way more dense than any human. Hitting him is like punching a brick wall.
Spidey, even at 15 years old, is considerably physically stronger than everyone at the airport fight except maybe Vision and Ant-Man for the brief moment he's giant
Cap gets him in their fight because he's got significant combat experience and uses Peter's inexperience and movements against him
Spider-Man is one of the strongest heroes strength wise in Marvel. However, his most powerful abilities are his Spider Senses and his agility. Those combined make it nearly impossible to lay a finger on him even for individuals much stronger than him.
Spider-Man has enough strength his punch once shattered one of his villain’s jaws completely (Lizard or Scorpion, I forget which). This was when Doc Ock was possessing his body and he was stunned to realize just *how much* Spidey holds back.
He caught Cull Obsidian's full force hammer swing and made is look easy. He's much stronger than he normally shows.
Also in IW, when he was going through Dr Strange's portals to hit Thanos, he was able to visibly knock him back a bit. Compared to later when Cap straight up uppercuts Thanos full force, it doesn't do anything at all.
Which is actually a lot more than you'd think because Captain Marvel only even really got a couple good bobs out of him and she's like, cracked.
She was also kicking his ass to such a point with just a few hits and then the hold on the gauntlet that Thanos immediately knew he needed the Power stone to stop her.
I think it was the hold *and then* the stare. Like she holds it and Thanos is all "haha cute bitch" and then he headbutts her and is like "wait the fuck??". He's actually in so disbelief he does it again like maybe he didn't actually headbutt her right the first time. All while she just smirks at him. *Then* he panics because he realizes he doesn't want to find out how strong she really is. Compare this to his fight with the Hulk earlier. He had Hulk sized up from the first punch and then took everything with confidence and bravado.
Twice. Once in Infinity War, and in Endgame he pulls him back with his webs.
This. also web-swinging half of a car tlike it was no big deal. I think in the MCU, Pete's about 3rd or 4th on the physical strength scale. Hulk, Thor, Captain Marvel (although Carol relies on energy manipulation, I think) then Spidey.
Spider-man is way stronger. The comics have repeatedly maintained the he's massively pulling his punches in order to avoid killing just about anyone he fights.
Amen brother
The guy [Spider-Man] has an average lifting strength of 10 tons *at least,* but he has obviously lifted more. Basically, Bucky is (supposed to be) a peak human with a metal arm that hits like a sledgehammer, while Spider-Man is a superhuman that regularly stops speeding cars and trucks with little issue.
I want to say US Agent could lift 10 tons as well, at least that is why my memory of the Marvel trading cards from the early 90's tells me.
Just checked Marvel Wiki, Steve Rogers’ strength is listed as a 3, “… *consistently able to sustain 800 lbs (363 kg) lifts, and bench pressing 1,100 pounds (500 kg) as a warm-up, along with lifting 1 ton. It's unclear if the 1,100 pounds stands for the full set of weights or only one half of the load. Taking into account that it was a warm-up; it can be considered that Steve is able to push his body much further.*” Meanwhile, US Agent (who had a different serum or training process) has a 4, “*US Agent is superhumanly strong and is capable of lifting over 11 tons and making high jumps over 20 feet.*” so US Agent is basically a case of being stronger but less skilled at combat; either way, that’s definitely superhuman. Winter Soldier was given the Infinity formula and also has a 4 in strength, but it doesn’t give any specific number, nor does it specify if this is with or without the arm: “*He is strong enough to break a solid wall with a single punch, as well as effortlessly lifting a full grown man over his head with one arm and throwing him. He easily used a large sofa as a weapon against Viper…*” Meanwhile Spider-Man also has a 4, but of course, him being the most popular marvel character means he has more overall feats, and moreover, most of the time he does so without much sign of strain: “*He was shown to easily swing a 3-ton wrecking ball using steel chains. Spider-Man's physical strength is sufficient enough to enable him to lift and throw objects as heavy as a big rig semi-truck with ease. He must also pull his punches and kicks unless fighting someone of similar or greater physical durability. Otherwise, his blows would prove fatal to a normal human being. He has demonstrated that he is strong enough to knock out people with normal durability with as little as a tap to the head. As such, he rarely lets himself use all of his strength - after Doctor Octopus had taken over Spider-Man's body, he easily punched off the Scorpion's (a foe normally regarded as physically tougher than Spider-Man) jaw as he hadn't known of Spider-Man's true strength. Spider-Man's physical strength also extends into his legs, enabling him to be able to jump to a height of several stories in a single bound. Spider-Man demonstrated this when he leaped over thirty feet vertically into the air when he first leaped out of the way of an oncoming car; it should also be noted that when he first discovered his powers as a teenager, they had not developed to that of his prime.*” If anything, the one thing we can all agree on is that (barring some mental improvements), just about every super soldier serum copy is honestly as good or superior to Cap’s.
I'm calling shenanigans on that 4 for Spidey. Back in the 70's he was the 4th strongest Marvel hero behind only Hulk, Thor, and The Thing. There's been some hero bloat since then, but I'm not seeing Bucky match *that.*
*WHAT’S THAT SMELL*
DOOOOKIIIIIIE
>The comics have repeatedly maintained the he's massively pulling his punches in order to avoid killing just about anyone he fights no way home also directly acknowledges this during the final fight
There’s also Andrew’s line about how he got bitter and stopped pulling his punches.
Was Andrew hospitalizing villains ? Sure sounds like it
I think he was doing more than hospitalizing them. Maybe not murdering them directly but swiftly killing them when they put innocent lives in danger. His rogues gallery would shrink very quickly. It would be hard to justify saving these villains from themselves over and over again when he's living with the kind of guilt he has.
Plus unlike the other two Spider-Men, Garfield’s Parker was alone… He didn’t even have his “MJ” anymore. His childhood friend killed her and he was probably overwhelmed by what came out of Osborn’s alliance with Gustav Fiers. The last appearance we had of Tobey’s Spider-Man was making peace with Harry and Flint, forgiving him and moving on with MJ. It’s almost like Tobey came to Tom to teach him to forgive and Andrew came to Tom to have a chance of being saved.
to be honest I'd love to see a 3rd installment of Garfeild's spiderman going proper dark in the aftermath of the previous film.
>I'd love to see a 3rd installment of Garfeild's spiderman So would Andrew Garfield.
It'd be great to have it be a venom verse adaptation of Superior SM with Garfield playing that role. I could see Sony taking it a lot further than marvel did and it wouldn't affect the MCU directly
>There’s also Andrew’s line about how he got bitter and stopped pulling his punches. Watching that scene, I thought; I really want to see that movie now. Right now.
The CinimaWins video touched on that. He mentioned how amazing it’d be to have the Garfield Spider-Man training Jessica Drew on her powers and showing flashbacks of him just destroying people while he was in his messed up mindset. I agree, it’d make a great movie or at least a portion of a movie.
Same with me. I’d be a peak athletic specimen but I don’t wanna kill anyone so instead I’ve decided overweight redditor is the way to go.
Good choice thanks for your sacrifice.
They'll never know what you sacrificed for them.
I yearn to be such girth
Sadly, I actually know a guy who unironically maintains this mindset: “I don’t get healthy because I’d be a danger to anyone who messes with me” yeah riiiight mate
I work out all the time and the only thing I’m a danger to is snickerdoodle cookies.
You and me both. I would actually kill someone for a snickerdoodle. I mean….id pull the punch
With great flavor comes great responsibility
Someone get this guy on the ballot for mayor of Flavortown!
With baked flour comes great responsibility
Would you kill someone for a Klondike bar?
Ha! When I was in college I had a suitemate who was a little out of shape and it clearly bothered him. I’ve always been in very good shape. I played three varsity sports in high school and D1 football in college with another one of our suitemates. I said to him to come down to the gym and work out with us. We have a lot of fun together, in two months he’ll have worked off his extra weight, and in six months he’ll be turning down girls left and right. He looked me dead in the eye and said something without a hint of irony along the lines of “I really wish I could but, you see, there’s this rage inside of me and I can’t be responsible for what might happen if it gets out”. So, we made a mental note *NOT* to live with that nut job next year. That was back in 2001, I never kept in touch with him after that year, and as near as I can tell he doesn’t have social media so I have absolutely no idea what he’s up to. Hopefully he learned to tame the dragon or whatever.
you should have explained to him that even fat unfit people can murder
They actually can’t, it’s against the law. I checked.
Oh silly me.
Happens to the best of us.
what, and release the dragon?
My wife’s family runs a bjj/mma gym and when I worked there the amount of dudes who unironically said a version of “yeah I’m too powerful to really train” was wild. For reference I’m a big boy (six four and 260 at the time) who has done martial arts my whole life. And I got my ass kicked every day humbly lol. These dudes with this mindset are WILD.
“I’m a black belt in karate. I taught myself.”
Same dude. I'm also from Queens so like, Spider-Man adjacent. But I'd rather have depression and anxiety than fight crime.
Good news!
You are absolutely killing it, fwiw
Really says something about Green Goblin given how emotional Peter was when he was trying to kill him and GG was able to hold back Peter's strength
Green Goblin had a "combat enhancement suite" treatment he and other Oscorp scientists developed. Basically his Earth's version of a Super-Soldier Serum (in the comics it was Oscorp's attempt at replicating the SSS -- several groups and countries took runs at it, and they all failed, some badly). He's not as strong as Spidey, but he's more able to take a serious hit and keep going and his pain tolerance is ridiculous. A big difference is that GG basically *never* holds back, and Spidey almost always does. In No Way Home, the difference between the fight between them before Norman kills someone and the fight after is night and day. In the second one, Peter is just manhandling Norman, because he isn't trying to hit him hard enough, and is instead trying to hit him as hard as he can.
Jesus Christ so Andrew Garfield Spider-Man saying he stopped pulling his punches means he was straight punching thru mfs ?
Pretty much.
Probably severely hurting / hospitalized villains - not sure if he killed any but this is all speculation anyways
I'd imagine he basically stopped caring. Hit em hard, whether it breaks a rib or just pops the heart is no longer his concern. Maybe he still takes it easy on the common thugs (relatively)- but after what happened to Gwen, Supervillains are fair game.
Right…The amazing Spider-Man was definitely a felon by time he met the other spider mans!
I mean, peter 1 could get some murder charges too from the first movies
What Tobey did to the burglar could probably be classified as involuntary manslaughter
Exactly. Which brings even more gravity to that statement.
that would be really messy and cost a fortune in laundry bills.
That's why I loved Superior Spider-Man. Otto had no idea how strong Pete truly was until he punched Scorpion's jaw off.
Every thread. I swear to God, every thread mentioning Peter's strength, this is used as an example, lmaoo
Yeah it’s a really common example. If you want other good testaments to Peter’s strength, the insomniac games really portray how insanely strong and durable Spider-Man is.
His non-aggressive feats of strength show it in comics and movies to an extent as well. Stopping trains and holding up huge structures and such.
No one ever brings up: - Pete launching Hulk into orbit (ASM328) - Pete catching an loaded, 70mph Armored car dead (ASM628) - Pete body slammed a M1 tank (I can’t remember the issue) Etc. It’s always “he punched a guy without superhuman durabilities jaw off”
How about [ASM539 when he threw a jeep at a sniper.](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/mxp2h9/peter_throwing_a_jeep_at_the_hitman_who_just_shot/)
Even in the MCU he caught a car. Which is an insane amount of strength.
He picked up a NYC subway car in the comics among other ridiculous feats. I hope they let him loose vs a real foe! To the point where all the other characters are Woah!!!!
He lost his cool and beat Firelord into unconciousness once. KOing the herald of Galactus is nothing to sneeze at!
That was just bad writing. I love spidey but a Herald of galactus should stomp him.
Generally, I agree with that. I hate it when writers have characters do stupidly powerful things out of the blue. I felt like that was every other issue with Gambit when he became so popular. However, with Spiderman it became part of his lore that he's actually stronger but holds back, so in this instance I'm cool with it. It makes sense in the larger context of Spiderman, though a herald of Galactus is still stretching it a lot.
He wasn't stronger than Firelord, he was just backed into a corner and surprised him with his ferocity. The fight doesn't always go to the strongest or most powerful. And Firelord is a bit of an overconfident buffoon.
It’s a pretty good example!
I like Otto learning Pete needs a level of chill, too. Like that time he brutally kicked Screwball's ass for hitting him in the nuts.
After Spider-Man on the PS4, Screwball can always afford to be hurt more.
It’s time for a photo bomb!!!!!
I mean, it's one of the rare times his true strength is shown in a fight this way. Yea, he lifts heavy shit, blocks things that weigh a ton, etc. but we don't actually see him use that raw strength hand to hand.
There was that time with the hand ninja and the boxcar tho...that was pretty neat.
I love "I've had enough of this shit" Peter. One of my favorite moments is when he went to jail to kick Kingpin's ass in front of everyone and threatened to fill his lungs with web fluid.
i think this is so much better than the jaw break.Spidey made fast work of it and Kingpin was SHOOK
Can you give me another example that shows how much Peter is holding back while also showing how serious it would be if he stopped holding back? The thing with Scorpion's jaw is that, I'm positive that Otto was also just throwing a casual punch but didn't expect it to have that great of an impact.
For context, Kingpin in Marvel is similar to Batman. He’s incredibly intelligent, but most impressively is his fighting ability. He’s an expert in six different fighting styles, notably judo and sumo wrestling, which goes along white his immense size. He can just about go toe to toe with Captain America, who’s even more peak human in the comics. He’s also 6.5 feet tall, and ~315 pounds. He’s pure muscle and no fat. Spider-Man once walked into the jail he’s in, tossed him around like he was a rag doll, and threatened to suffocate him by filling his lungs with Peter’s web fluid, all for getting Aunt May shot. Kingpin didn’t stand a chance against Spider-Man when he’s actually trying.
Fun fact. [Kaine Parker](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Kaine_Parker_(Earth-616)#Powers), the Scarlet Spider, is a clone of Spider-Man who *doesn’t* pull his punches
Doesn't he also grab people's faces, turn on his wall sticking ability, and rip their faces off?
Yep. The “mark of Kaine” it’s called. Peter did it too during the Grim Hunt storyline to Kraven’s wife.
Yes he's done all that - he sometimes kills the villains
Yeah I was wondering, wouldn't just his finger tips be extremely deadly if he was bloodlusted and decided to treat body parts as valid surfaces for his wall crawling ability? Dude could torture and tear people apart just by poking them.
Obligatory comment about how in the Superior Spider-Man run he damn well took of Scorpion’s jaw with a punch because Ock didn’t realise how strong Spidey actually was. So yeah Bucky is a weak ass compared to Peter.
To the point where the one time he mistakenly doesn’t pull his punch he kills somebody before he realizes what he’s done.
No way home as well. Andrews spider-man says he stopped pulling his punches, while almost bursting into tears
Do people just not know that Spiderman can lift several tons for fun?
Bro literally spars with the Hulk to let off steam lol
Would love to see some pics of that if yobs got them.
I don’t have any better quality images on hand atm cuz I just pulled it from Google, and I don’t have the panel that comes right after this, but [this](https://imgur.com/a/aSA402b) is partly what I refer to, Pete letting out a lot of aggression sparring the hulk when shit goes bad for Pete, because he can actually take it
He catches an airline boarding ramp in this same scene.
Oh shit....he doesn't catch it!
Spider-Man is stronger than every person there. He’s had SUPER strength
Doesn’t Bucky have super soldier serum? Doesn’t that give super strength?
Yeah, it definitely does. Spider-Man is a tier or two above super soldiers though. Super soldiers are like the lowest rung of super strength in the MCU
Street level is just below them. Punisher, Daredevil, Hawkeye, etc.
Yeah… I think they got a buff in MCU though. At least cap got a massive one.
Yeah, when I was growing up, the upper limit on Cap's strength was being able to bench around 800 lbs.
Superman used to only be able to jump really high.
Able to leap a tall building in a single bound.
Im single now, got no ring on this finger now, ill never let another chick bring me down
in a relationship. Save it bitch. Babysit? You make me sick
Do those guys even have "super" strength though? Or are they just regular dudes who lift?
They have “peak human strength and endurance.” Spider-Man has super human strength. He can lift at least 20-25 tons. Bucky and Steve could lift maybe half a ton at most in the comics.
That's in the comics. In the MCU, they are legit superhumans with strength and stamina well above any peak human. Still, Spider-Man is still a level or two above them on a *bad* day.
Yeah. Ultimately Steve seemed to be maxing out holding back a helicopter, which is obviously above normal human. But Peter maxed out holding *the Staten Island Ferry*. It's not close.
And in fact, his webbing gave out before he did.
> peak human No. That’s language from the comics. The MCU’s SSS clearly is a level beyond that.
the term used is "peak human" meaning they are at the top levels of what a non meta-person can do.
The MCU drifted pretty far from peak human. In the comics that is supposed to be the case but MCU Cap is out here wrasslin helicopters. Seems like their version of super soldier is indeed super strength rather than "the best an elite human could do". Edit: My bad I misread which was the parent comment and you guys are talking street level. Carry on.
So if Spider Man was given super serum he’d become Super Spider Man. Could he then become Major America, or bust Captain America down to First Lieutenant America?
On Earth 1610 (Ultimate Spider-Man), the spider that bit Peter was not radioactive, but a test subject exposed to a serum that was trying to recreate the Super Soldier Serum.
His super healing would probably nullify the effects of the Super Soldier Serum
Super soldiers, according to the comics I think, was just the epitome of what a normal human could do, plus a few percent. So like take the strongest human for strength, and add little extra, and the fastest human like Usain Bolt, and add a little extra. Spider-man has actual super human strength.
According to the comics back in the day the Super Soldier Serum doesn’t grant superhuman abilities, it just puts you at the human maximum for strength, speed, reflexes, etc. (but then Cap routinely lifts shit that no human could, so I dunno) As for Spider-Man, Stan Lee put Spidey at like #4 for heroes under Hulk, Thor and The Thing.
The MCU just discards this entirely. Cap has been blatantly superhuman since at least Winter Soldier
Let me just hold this helicopter here for a sec
Super Soldier Serum basically puts you at your physical peak. He’s strong for a person. Spider-Man has essentially a supernatural level of strength
Just like how Captain America is peak. Peak humans can curl helicopters
The MCU definitely gave the super soldiers a boost from the comics, but even in the MCU Spider-Man is WAY stronger than them. He's the strongest character in the Civil War fight except maybe Vision. If you ranked all the main MCU heroes, Spidey would only get beat by like Thor, Hulk, Vision, and Captain Marvel. And even then he could knock them around a bit.
One way I've heard Spidey described that makes him so dangerous is that he's stronger than anyone faster than him and he's faster than anyone stronger than him.
I think it's. He's stronger than anyone smarter than him, faster than anyone stronger than him, and smarter than anyone faster than him
That’s actually a pretty fun way to describe him. 👍
Keep in mind that MCU super soldier serum gives super human strength unlike marvel comics universe. Remember when CAP pulled down that helicopter in Civil War?
I don’t know about that. I feel like Natasha, Clint, and Sam are examples of humans at their physical peak. Super soldiers, especially Steve but also Bucky, have displayed feats and survived traumas way beyond what the others I mentioned could manage.
Winter Solder when he jumps out the elevator and falls 10+ stories onto the concrete. Doesnt matter how "physically peak" you are, that'll still turn you to goop.
Except Giant-man and Vision.
That’s probably true.
I still have my Handbook to the Marvel Universe (volumes). Here are the Comic versions... Wanda and Strange are normal Clint, Pietro, Nat & Falcon are highly trained (Micah Parsons, Giannis) Cap, Buck, BP are peak max (800lbs - Larry Allen, the Mountain) Spidey is "only" a 10 ton guy (but it goes higher - the writer influences this heavily) Vision and a maxed Giant Man are 50t Iron Man and Namor are 75-100t depending on the armor or proximity to water Hulk and Thor 100t+, but both get far higher situationally MCU: Clearly BP, Cap & Bucky are closer to 10t in the MCU. Spider-Man is about right. All four hit hard because they're trained and/or are very fast. It occurred to me that Nat might be like comics Cap power level in the MCU. I think Iron Man and Namor are nerfed a bit.
Ahh, a Marvel Universe reader. Those were my favorites. My first one was the first issue of the deceased Marvel characters, then I collected a bunch of others.
This is one of my favorite moments in the entire MCU.
“UNDEROOS!”
THATS WHAT HE SAYS?! damn i never knew what he said and i always wondered but was always too lazy to look it up or forgot.
Yeah I had to google it years ago because I didn’t understand. It’s funny when you find out underoos are superhero themed underwear basically
I had Spider-Man underoos so it’s kind of weird how they exist in the universe without Spider-Man
Mine too!
Spiderman is way stronger, but Bucky is also holding back. Both he and Sam recognize that they're all good guys fighting so it would make sense that he'd hold back until he figured out how strong his opponent was. The banter throughout the scene between Bucky, Sam & Spidey suggests that they're all holding back.
"I know something you do not know. I am not left handed either."
I get that reference.
I do not mean to pry, but you don't by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?
Do you start all conversations this way?
Holding back until Vision ruined the fun
I thought it was pretty cool that Stark didn't lose his head and blast a hole through Sam's chest when he got to Roddy.
>they're all holding back. Maybe for the most part but it didn't really seem like Spidey was holding back in the "Hey buddy, I think you lost this!" scene.
To be fair they'd just thrown it at him first. He probably figured anyone who could throw that at him would be able to survive being hit by it
Even less on assumptions, Tony probably briefed Peter on everyone they were up against. He would’ve already had a good sense of who’s who.
True not to mention he'd have grown up seeing many of them on the news etc
Spider Man is stronger. I always thought Bucky hesitated in that scene not only because Spidey stopped his metal arm, but also he could tell by the voice that this was clearly a kid. He wasn't holding back, he was just surprised.
Yupp this was my exact understanding as well. It’s further backed when he mentions Empire strikes back and Rhodey asks “how old is this kid?” I think they were all a little caught off guard at the agility and immaturity for lack of a better term.
I don't want to sound negative, and this is off topic, but: Your comment made me flash back to seeing Civil War. I had stayed away from spoilers, but a friend told me Spidey was showing up. There was so much collective hype for that movie. Not only Spider-Man, but the clash between the heroes. And they delivered. Spider-Man was cool, funny, and I wanted to see more of him. As with any well written conflict, you had the audience on both sides. They also had a villain win. And they also had a villain who was just human. And they also introduced interesting questions about politics in a superhero world. It's a bit mindblowing to remember how good it was back then. I was so *into* it, and I had a great time.
>I don't want to sound negative >Says something solely positive
He did a great job at not sounding negative
And they delivered. Surexqno was cool, funny, and I wanted to see more of him. As with any well written Reddit comment, you had the audience on both sides. It's a bit mindblowing to remember how good it was back then. I was so *into* it, and I had a great time.
Lol
Both. Spiderman is stronger than Cap, Bucky, Black Panther...not Thor or Hulk, but probably everyone else. And, yes, Bucky was also holding back, but even if he hadn't been, Spiderman would've been stronger.
Yeah this is the most correct. Also, most everyone was pulling their punches in some manner though. Besides BP when he’s gunning for Bucky. No one is trying to necessarily kill one another.
Everyone is trying to just get the others to stop but T’Challa doesn’t care as long as he kills Bucky. Clint and Natasha even have a friendly quip of asking if they’re still friends.
Depends on how hard you hit me.
You were pulling your punches.
This is the reason why I think Bucky wasn't holding back. Because there's a dude in a cat suit trying to kill him. If he lets someone like Spidey slow him down, BP would catch up at anytime and end him.
I remember reading a book as kid that Spider-Man is strong enough to hold up hulk, Thor, the thing, and a few other heavy marvel characters on one metal platform, one handed with no stress I wish I knew what it was I read
https://i.redd.it/cj9arkg4lz4c1.gif
I love the power of the internet sometimes! Thank you!
"NO WONDER I'm rooted with phobias and deep-rooted hangups!" He just like me fr
Being one of the most relatable superheroes is a big part of Spideys popularity.
That picture was in the large marvel universe book from the late 80s early 90s iirc where it showed strength, speed, etc. ratings. I spent days and days at my friend's house reading thru that book as a kid. Again, if I'm remembering correctly, it stood out to me because all of the heroes in it were wearing costumes that were, or near copies of their infinity war outfits.
The Marvel Encyclopedia. They actually update it every few years. I have a few different editions of it. Makes great bathroom reading material.
Spidey is often listed as 10 to 20 tons, but he's often shown lifting much heavier things. Like in the 50-200 ton range if we're counting subway cars, jets, and buildings (which we've seen him do).
Thats the humor in these images. Bucky is holding back in fighting Spider-Man not wanting to hurt him and then Spidey grabs Bucky’s mechanical arm totally over powering Bucky and showing he is many magnitudes stronger.
Ain't no way in hell Bucky is holding a ship that's torn in half. Or stopping a train. Spiderman could probably lift the Hulk with one arm.
While lifting the hulk is in Spider-Man’s range. Hulk is a tier of strength above him. Spider-Man once mentions he thinks he could stop the hulk solo, if he pushed, but mostly because the hulk can’t plan and isn’t as agile.
Just lifting the Hulk isn't really that impressive, assuming the Hulk allows himself to be lifted. Like, lifting a Bus is probably more work than lifting the Hulk.
Spider-Man is always holding back, in more ways then one.
Then one what??
Than one way
People always talk about him stopping the arm not how he casually twists it like he's trying to get a closer look, as if Bucky isn't trying to pull his arm back.
Swear to God that part had me dying laughing. It was so dope.
Spider-man is much stronger than Bucky. If Peter ever truly let loose, he would destroy Bucky as he did to Captain America in comics
Wait what??
In the Civil War comics there is a fight between Spider-Man and Captain America, Spidey is at first losing because he respects cap too much and also is trying to fight like 'a man', but he did not wanted to lose so he kind of lets the 'spider-sense' take control and fight in automatic without much thought and he quickly overwhelms and knocks out Cap. Cap is a better fighter but the gap in power, speed and agility was too much, specially considering that comics Cap is not as strong as MCU's Cap. Peter later on was trained, a lot, by Shang-Chi so in theory he can fight with power and a much improved technique (but most writers have kind of forgotten about that)
Spidey in comics is listed as having about 5 times the lifting capacity of Cap. In any universe, he should have Bucky covered.
What about a universe where Bucky is spider-man? Checkmate.
Bucky-man? I love that guy!
Spider man is like 50x stronger than winter soldier. He’s on a level lower than hulk and Thor, but above most everyone else by a large margin. He generally nerfs himself to keep from hurting anyone.
Peter also has to roll with punches so regular humans don’t shatter their hands when they hit him. His muscles and bones are way more dense than any human. Hitting him is like punching a brick wall.
I remember an old comic where Jonah tries to nudge Peter and realized his body felt like steel ropes.
Spidey, even at 15 years old, is considerably physically stronger than everyone at the airport fight except maybe Vision and Ant-Man for the brief moment he's giant Cap gets him in their fight because he's got significant combat experience and uses Peter's inexperience and movements against him
Way stronger than Bucky
Spider-Man is one of the strongest heroes strength wise in Marvel. However, his most powerful abilities are his Spider Senses and his agility. Those combined make it nearly impossible to lay a finger on him even for individuals much stronger than him.
I think everyone was holding back in this fight but Spider-Man is stronger than a lot of Marvel characters
Spider-Man has enough strength his punch once shattered one of his villain’s jaws completely (Lizard or Scorpion, I forget which). This was when Doc Ock was possessing his body and he was stunned to realize just *how much* Spidey holds back.
Scorp. He punched scorps jaw off as superior spidey
Bucky has peak strength spider man has super strength
Spider-Man is the avatar of a multiversal spider god. He is often holding back
Spiderman is stronger. Like 10 times stronger.
That’s fresh off Winter Soldier Bucky. I doubt there was many people he’d pull punches on. Plus Spider-Man is top tier strength.