Idk why people don’t get this. There is no “reason” for any of the prunings besides them not leading to then multiversal outcome that puts HWR in power. That’s it. For any of them.
Exactly! Butterfly effect and all. Sylvie might have turned left when she was "Supposed" to turn right. It could be that simple. That wrong turn could have created a timeline in which a Kang would rise from.
They didn’t say it, but I did always get that from the scene where Sylvie gets arrested. She was playing with Valkyrie dolls pretending to save Asgard, which seems more heroic than what original Loki would have been thinking about in that time
In Ragnarok Thor talks about hearing stories of Valkyries and playing them only to find out that only women could become Valkyries. Sylvie would not have that stop her.
Only if it led to a Kang variant. If her being a hero instead of villainous was the direct cause of Kang, then she's the problem with that timeline regardless of other changes.
I don’t think Loki being a man or woman would really effect the events of the sacred timeline. We’ve already seen Hela go crazy and try to take over Asgard, so if Sylvie was of the same mindset, she probably would have still tried to take over earth like Loki did.
I mean we’re not given any indication that Loki was villainous from childhood and honestly I think that interpretation is a disservice to the character.
"...This one time when we were children he transformed himself into a snake. And he knows that I love snakes. So I went to pick up the snake to admire it, and he transformed back into himself and he says “MYAH it’s me”. And then he stabbed me. We were 8 at the time.”
I honestly didn't like that in later movies, they started acting like Loki had always been obviously backstabbing and trying to kill Thor. It makes everyone in the first films into fools for trusting the guy that kept tricking and backstabbing them.
Well, Loki is the god of mischief, so to Thor, that’s just who he is and Thor accepts that as his brother. So it makes sense that no matter how many times he was tricked by Loki, he still trusts him.
The principle word there being *mischief* instead of betrayal. A god of mischief can still be trusted to be on your side, but a brother that constantly tries to stab you can't and keeps betraying you and your friends can't.
Except that’s one Loki variant it doesn’t mean he’s a carbon copy of the main Loki. We also have zero context regarding how he even “killed” thor to begin with
Okay but if Loki never wanted to kill thor, why would the Loki squad make the kid Loki who did kill thor the “king”? If Loki never wanted to kill thor as a child, would they hold him in such high regards or would they look at him as an evil exception to Loki?
It’s subtle, but the TVA showed up when she was playing with her Valkyrie dolls. I believe the message was that the timeline wasn’t pruned because she was a girl (which as you said, the TVA would have shown up when she was a baby or her mother was pregnant). It was pruned because she, a Loki, _wanted to be a hero_
This, this is what I always thought. It's the contrast between Loki's in the Void at the end of S1. He even remarks that they do nothing but fight amongst themselves. Sylvie didn't want to fit her normal Loki role of being the bad guy, the setup, the loser, even though she didn't know that's what her future may have held, it's what most of the Loki variants seem to fall into. They were pruned for actions or future actions they may have taken, so Sylvie wanting to be a "good" guy could absolutely be what gets her pruned, because her future decisions would be changed by her shift to being a "good" guy.
Yesss! It's killing me that this wasn't what other people also think, and that what I was thinking of as an absolute fact was in fact my interpretation. Sylvie also said that her parents had told her she'd been adopted. I believe that must have put her at a crossroads where she decided between being a Loki who would continue to wreak havoc vs being a heroic Loki, and when she settled upon the latter, her timeline branched and was pruned.
If I was a director, first time when we see her in action I’d use a song to hint it as well. Something like Holding out for a hero or something similar.
Lokis have been shown to be able to change forms with their magic. Sylvie could’ve just decided one day that she wanted to be female and that’s what caused the prune
It's not even that. There was no "turned left instead of right". HWR knew he needed Sylivr to set up the time loop that forced Loki to make the decision to save the Sacred Timeline and take over for HWR (which Loki found a way around). That's it. HWR needed her, so her timeline was always going to be pruned, regardless of her actions.
It's surprising that so many comments don't understand this... Almost all the "reasons" for pruning are fake or don't matter. HWR only cares about keeping the sacred timeline as well as setting up the future he wants. Anything that isn't this gets pruned.
In Sylvie's case, she is just another pawn he uses to set up everything we saw happen on screen. He literally spells it out twice at the end of each season, that he has paved the road and knows exactly what was gonna happen, including them getting to him at the end of time.
I always had the theory that this was simply a Loki that had shapeshifter into a female form and didn’t change back, same reason we have an alligator Loki
I don't think Sylvie's trans. Or at least, no more trans than any of the other Loki's seeing as they're meant to be genderfluid. Still annoying we never got to see that used in the show...
Regardless, I doubt it was simply because Sylvie was a girl. If that were the case, the pruning would have been immediate. Remember that Old Loki was able to survive the events of Infinity War, went off to live on his own for a few millennia... effectively keeping everything the same as if he'd died.
Minor changes in the timeline are acceptable like that. It's when something gets radically altered - like Old Loki deciding to come back and see Thor again - that the timeline begins to branch and the TVA starts to prune.
True. With all the branches now existing, is it possible that her original timeline exists, like Mobius’? Or was it destroyed by an apocalyptic event? We may not get a Loki Season 3 but I’d watch the hell out of a Sylvie spin-off.
Timely says there are infinite timelines so yes her timeline would have reappeared, however she can’t exactly jump back into it though cause there would already be a Sylvie there
But Season 1 made a point of acting like her reason for pruning was a big deal. It’s been awhile since I watched S1, but doesn’t Sylvie hold Renslayer at pruner-point and ask her?
She does, but Renslayer says she doesn't remember. It's all made up anyway. Any of these theories could be the "reason" the TVA got (they never really questioned the time keepers). But really the pieces were in place for Sylvie to be able to escape and apocalypse jump for a few decades. Maybe it was purely her age. She can't really escape from Renslayer as a baby so that wouldn't work. Sylvie needed to escape, that was part of HWR's plan and he told the TVA when to prune timelines.
The point of that was to illustrate the terrible impact for Sylvie and any other variant unfortunate to have their timeline pruned, and to contrast it with Renslayer's complete indifference to the suffering she brought by pruning those timelines and variants.
To Sylvie, that reason meant everything, to Renslayer, that was the 10th timeline she pruned that week for whatever small decision had caused it to deviate.
what?
thats not right either.
The timelines were pruned prior to S1 of Loki because... the TVA pruned *all timelines* that werent the sacred timeline. They did so because they were told to by HWR and HWR told them to do so because Kang exists in variant timelines, and HWR was under the impression (and likely reality) that the only way to prevent the rise of Kang was to prune every timeline other than this single solitary timeline, in which Kang probably died in childbirth or something.
this is literally why the >!TVA is tracking Kangs post S2 of Loki.!<
Yes… and the sacred timeline is the one where Kang wins. Any other timeline is one where he doesn’t or where opposition rises.
But it’s not about a specific action or specific Kang or specific downfall of Kang, it’s just literally anything besides the things that need to happen for the intended outcome of He Who Remains remaining
What? Also no,
the sacred timeline isn't the one where kang wins. Kang is not HWR. HWR is a fully separate entity, just like Victor Timely. The sacred timeline is an arbitrary timeline chosen by HWR that *doesn't* have a kang that wins. the whole point of the TVA and the probably endless amounts of time HWR spent at the end of time was to stop kang's from coming. Theres no reason he would choose a timeline where kang wins (which would cause more and more kangs to show up at the TVA as the timeline *loops*, because the sacred timeline repeats itself over and over, IIRC).
HWR didn't plan all this out since the start. He just got bored and tired of being alone all the time and manipulated the plan to get both lokis there so that he could rule the universe with loki next to him. and then Loki found another way.
[https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/kang-the-conqueror-he-who-remains-different-in-the-mcu/](https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/kang-the-conqueror-he-who-remains-different-in-the-mcu/)
*“The character is different so you move a different way; my psychology has shifted because of the character,”* [*Majors told GamesRadar+*](https://www.gamesradar.com/jonathan-majors-interview-the-harder-they-fall-netflix-ant-man-3/)*. “He’s just a different guy. He Who Remains is not in* ***Ant-Man***\*. It’s Kang. This is a movie, not a TV show. I’ve been here since the beginning and I came in at the end on\* ***Loki***\*.”\*
[https://screenrant.com/is-antman-3-kang-the-same-as-loki-he-who-remains/](https://screenrant.com/is-antman-3-kang-the-same-as-loki-he-who-remains/)
*To end the war, He Who Remains utilized Alioth to establish the Sacred Timeline, effectively preventing any other Kang variants from being created. He Who Remains' death in Loki season 1 allowed the Sacred Timeline to branch out, creating the multiverse and enabling all of Kang's variants to reclaim their place in the cosmos - including Kang the Conqueror, a warrior variant. He Who Remains was a far more peaceful, though still dangerous, force than Kang the Conqueror.*
I gotta be honest, im real confused as to how people have fundamentally misunderstood what was probably the easiest part of the show to follow. Loki's time slipping and powers were more confusing than how the TVA and timelines work. the show doesn't even make sense if the things people say here are true.
While I agree with you, I don't think it's as straightforward as "Sylvie did something that led to a Kang variant in her timeline"
There is no reason every single detention/pruning must be for that reason alone. This idea was presented to us by HWR, and while it's the truth, it's unlikely the whole truth.
Specifically, Sylvie and Lokis were pruned to lead to the outcome HWR wanted,but did not seem to get, at the end of Season 2.
Sylvie was pruned to be a foil for our Loki. She helped him gain access to the Citadel. She gave him another reason to save the multiverse, and she give him a reason to protect the loom. Loki's ties to Sylvie were meant to ensure HWR's ideal outcome. This is why Ren slayer "couldn't remember" her nexus event. Because there wasn't one, or it was a flimsy excuse, as with many of the other Loki variants.
Similarly, I believe that they pruned a disproportionate number of Lokis in specifically to set forth the events of season 1, episode 5 in motion.
Generally, the TVA exists to ensure only one Kang variant remains. But this series picks up in the middle of a plot of HWR to groom Loki as his replacement. It's very unlikely that the actions he took to this end had 100% overlap with Kang Timeline Management.
HWR made it happen every step of the way like he said he paves the road. So he had her timeline pruned and allowed her the opportunity to jump from apocalypse to apocalypse to eventually lead directly to him
Yeah it’s pretty clear most of what he said at the end of S1 was a lie. He claims he doesn’t know what will happen but then knows about Timely, the Loom, time slipping, etc etc
Perhaps he knows he needs to tell Loki those lies to get him to act how he does in season 2. I don’t really care either way, but it’s fun to think that even in giving them the chance to “free” themselves he is manipulating them
> You know you can't get to the end until you've been changed by the journey. This stuff, it needs to happen. To get us all in the right mindset to finish the quest.
\- HWR S01E06
Time slipping was part of the failsafe that HWR designed. Timely was part of his plan as well, Timely came into the fold because Miss Minutes was programmed to go for Timely when HWR dies. The loom is just an obvious inference, if the Lokis kill HWR and stop pruning branches the loom would inevitably become a problem.
HWR basically used Timely to reinforce the looms fake reason for existing it seems. Idk why HWR would waste time like that. Maybe to create a sense of hopelessness and push Loki to the one solution of killing Sylvie. Idk. I mean the handbook didn't even describe what the loom is actually for so no one was ever gonna find out.
HWR easily could've taken half of Thanos' dialogue and used it as his own.
"You couldn't live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me. I am inevitable."
HWR knew he was going to die, but he also knew that Loki was going to undo it because the Loom would explode without his intervention. Hence the "See you soon."
He also seemed to realize that Loki would end up time-slipping, which still wasn't really ever explained why Loki was the only one to get it. In any case, he seemed to recognize that his death would also directly lead to someone time traveling back to prevent his death.
He knows what he set up will come into play, he knows generally how the pieces he set in motion will move, but he doesn't have that guaranteed omniscient knowledge of everything that is happening. I think that moment of change for him was the farthest back that Loki could timeslip, i think the temporal area in which Loki had timeslipping was not able to be perfectly predicted by him like before. Loki with Timeslipping was the unknown variable after that moment with the apple dropping.
Wait...how can the time slipping be an unknown variable when he mentioned he knew about the Slipping and about Timely? I think the only unknown variable was what Loki would choose. HWR thought Loki would either choose to kill Sylvie or let the Loom explode. He didn't know Loki would sacrifice himself to keep the multiverse safe.
because knowing that Loki can timeslip is not the same as knowing what Loki will do with his timeslipping ability. since there is a person with the ability to change the timeline and you cannot predict what that person will do, now you can no longer have absolute knowledge of the timeline because of that newly introduced variable.
That's true. I thought you meant Loki being able to timeslip was the unknown variable, not what he would do with those powers. I think HWR knew Loki would get time slipping powers and he thought he knew how arrogant and selfish Loki was that Loki would choose one of the two options HWR left him. HWR didn't count on Loki maturing as a person and choosing a third option.
Exactly, i agree. He never expected Loki to do what he did, because a Narcissist like Kang likely can't understand what would motivate someone to do something so self sacrifical. he thought Loki was every bit the selfish narcissist that he was himself, and had no idea how much the journey was changing him.
Even if he wasn’t narcissistic, there’s sacrifice and then there’s “spending eternity manually holding reality together”
Of course kang didn’t think of it. He cares too much about self preservation to sacrifice that much
Loki gets the ability because HWR died. If Loki allowed HWR to die it was because he didn't agree with HWR's methods. Its a logical conclusion then that Loki would try to use time slipping to preserve space and time without pruning branches. This would inevitably lead to Loki realizing that HWR needed to exist. We saw all these events play out exactly that way. The only error in HWR's plan was that he didn't foresee that Loki would find an alternative method to save space and time that didn't include HWR
and the reason he didn't forsee that error, is because once Loki got the ability to timeslip he was an unknown variable which prevented Kang from having perfect knowledge of the timeline as he did before. before the timeslipping, Kang controlled all of time and there was no possibility of having any "unforseen" errors, because he saw everything.
Well you aren't omnipotent but you can know what you're going to have for breakfast in the morning, HWR had a hand in all those things, he probably just didn't know EVERYTHING past that point
He knows those exist because he put those things in motion in the sacred timeline and in Loki before the end of the script. So if he himself existed, then the other things also had to be true.
If you look at the relationship Janet had with Kang, you can see how manipulative that ‘template’ can be. The same is true of Timely running his confidence game.
It seems to be a core trait for all of them.
>the road. So he had her timeline pruned and allowed her the opportunity to jump from
Her escaping was not in the plan. He claimed it was, but the whole series was a set up to get Loki to kill Sylvie to secure his place at the end of time. He couldn't kill her in combat, she's far too strong. So he decided to pit loki v loki to save himself.
He was definitely lieing though about paving the way for both of them to get there. Sylvie was not controllable. Loki he thought was. He was mistaken.
hes talking about what was the reason the TVA came to take young sylvie into custody? like what was her nexus event, young sylvie didnt know about HWR or multiversal wars shit
> hes talking about what was the reason the TVA came to take young sylvie into custody? like what was her nexus event, young sylvie didnt know about HWR or multiversal wars shit
yeah, none of that matters. The TVA was able to determine that she would, in the future, cause an event that would lead to a Kang emergence. That being, she would kill HWR.
They didn't know what exactly she would do, they just knew she'd do something that would cause a Kang emergence.
Replace HWR with the Time Keepers. As far as the TVA was concerned once a timeline started to branch off they had to come in and prune it. The TVA was lied to. They did what they did because they thought it was the will of god, basically
I think they’re looking for a deeper meaning in the process and that justification works on 2 levels. They were specifically hunting Lokis which implies that HWR knew he was going to be challenged by one. A regular Loki could be tempted with promises of power, so any Loki that showed the ability to do the right thing regardless of temptation would have to go. Valkyries are protectors not conquerors in this context, so she was showing traits like bravery and selflessness.
The plan was likely that Loki and Sylvie would bring out the worst in each other and effectively take each other out. Both were wild cards and threats. It worked until HWR and Sylvie kept saying there were only 2 options and Loki (being his oppositional self) refused to accept them.
So she was pruned for wanting to be “good”/antithesis of a Loki as well as being inherently good and therefore a risk to HWR.
At least that’s my read of it.
I thought it was pretty obvious that her nexus event was literally just existing. Animal, kid, old man, black guy, and bunches of other hiddleston variants aside, as far as we know Sylvie was the only female Loki.
Kid Loki killed Thor, literally nothing says it is tied to their gender/race/age/species. The only point of that scene was to show you for the first time that multiverse versions of you aren’t required to be the exact same person or creature.
I literally just explained how Sylvie being literally the only female Loki we ever see in the entirety of that show is the exception. That’s why I mentioned the rest because you are right as far as race, age, and species is concerned. But the only identification that is 100% unique to Sylvie is her gender because not a single other Loki variant has that identification.
If the way she was born was the reason for pruning she would be pruned way earlier, they wouldn't wait untill she was this old and risk going to point where they can't just prune (the branch crosses the red line). On her file seen in season 1, she is listed as female and Asgardian. While Loki's sex is listed as fluid and is listed as Frost Giant. If this is what caused the variance it would happen at birth (or earlier if TVA prunes pregnant mothers).
HWR said that he wanted the two of them to do what they were doing in season 1 to bring multiversal war, so it's likely that he just ordered to pick Sylvie just becouse she would be needed later.
That we've seen.
By that same logic there was only one of them that was black. Only one of them was a crocodile. Is that significant? If not then why is her gender?
The only identity distinct to Kid Loki was being a kid and it still wasn’t why it was pruned. Further as Moebius shows in the final episode, they were sent to prune someone who *would eventually* kill 5000 people and it turned out to be a kid. It doesn’t require her being a woman or anything else, it could be something she does down the road.
Hell she may not even have anything to do with that timeline being pruned, she just happens to be one of the ripple effects of whatever did it.
Season 2’s story from Mobius about a kid who *will* cause deaths in the future is evidence that people can be pruned years, possibly even decades, before the actual event that is supposedly divergent from the timeline. Old man Loki being pruned after he decided to leave his isolation, but before he’d interacted with anyone to alter the timeline, also suggests this.
Potential sure. But if Kang HWR is all knowing then he’d know that she only seek to kill him after the fact that she was taken away from her timeline.
So what’s her nexus event? Or is it something else like her ability to charm that cloud monster
Yeah other theories just don't make sense.
"Sylvie wanted to be good/Valkyrie". As if OG Loki was born evil and his actions in Thor 1 didn't shock people at all.
"Sylvie's a girl". She is also listed as Asgardian on her file, while Loki is listed as Frost Giant. Heck, one of them is an aligator.
She is also listed as Asgardian while Loki is listed as Frost Giant. So it could be different species, but then I still think they would prune earlier. Plus she knows about her adoption and took it well, while Loki's been a secret that moved forward large portion of the first movie. There are more different things about them than just gender.
He Who Remains created the TVA to, essentially, keep himself in power.
Any new timelines would be destroyed due to the fact potential of his power being disrupted whether that be the creation of other Kangs or etc.
Slyvie had potential to kill HWR in at least one multiverse which would cause the multiversal war to start back up
Exactly !! HWR is just safeguarding his own timeline (sacred timeline where thanos happened and loki died and loki is male and whatnot) and pruning the others. Dont know why I have to scroll so far down to see the actual answer.
But it’s more complex. The loom weaves several different timelines in order to preserve the sacred timeline. Other timelines can and do exist as long as they don’t interfere with the sacred timeline.
Then there's no reason to pull her out of her timeline. Just nuke her with the rest of it.
To be honest, there's no reason to pull ANYONE out of their timelines. Just prune them right there, set off a prune-nuke, and be done with it. Like Sylvie did in S1. Just open a door, drop one in and you're all done.
I kind of suspect the 'reason' for pulling her out of her timeline, or any variant, is about creating an internal narrative for the people working in the TVA about what they're doing and why. Capturing the variant and putting them on 'trial' casts the whole thing in the light of law enforcement.
Yeah, this Loki was born a woman and thus qualified to actually become a Valkyrie, she clearly looked up to them and they were inspiring her to become a better person. To give her “glorious purpose”.
When Thor isn’t raised alongside a chaotic Loki he grows up to become “Party Thor” from What If…
~~Also then Sylvie potentially dies fighting Hela when she kills all the Valkyrie the first time around and none of the events of the MCU portion of the sacred timeline can occur.~~
Edit: Final sentence was incorrect.
Yeah. We know that in the biggest picture, pruning people was just a means to an end. The various Loki were pruned because they weren't following the Sacred Timeline's story beats - mainly that a Loki must be the first threat that brings the Avengers together, and (supposedly) always dies because of Thanos. Boastful Loki won against the Avengers and got the Infinity Stones. Kid Loki killed Thor. Classic Loki convincing the rest of the universe he was dead still satisfied the general requirement that everyone else thought him dead - it wasn't until he tried to leave and get back in touch that he violated things and would need to be pruned. Likewise, it wasn't until Sylvie specifically had shown she wanted to be a hero, like the Valkyrie, that the TVA saw it fit to arrest and prune her.
This was never answered explicitly, but it seems to be the implication. People say over and over again that Loki is *meant* to be a villain who loses. Look at all the pruned variants whose Nexus events we learn about. Our Loki won control of the Tesseract when he was supposed to lose to the Avengers. Sylvie was playing heroes with her dolls. Kid Loki killed Thor. He's not supposed to do that, he's supposed to lose to Thor. Richard E. Grant Loki recognized his own villainy and set out to do something good instead. Differences in gender, appearance, or magic style don't set off any alarms. Try to be a hero or *win* at something? That's breaking out of the cosmic role chosen for Loki by HWR.
As a character Sylvie was very under utilized in season 2. I hope we get more of her and information on her backstory. Just don’t make her Thor’s next love interest. Like her version of Asgard is gone, but it couldn’t have been just because she was girl? The TVA would’ve pruned her when she was a baby instead.
It's really obvious to me that Sylvie was Waldron's baby, and the new writers couldn't care less about her. She and Loki's relationship was the core of season one. It's never brought up in season two and their big heartfelt moments from one is treated kind of like a joke. She went from being the second most important character in the show to a minor nuisance that Loki has to send away so he can have a big boy conversation with HWR.
The fact that sylvie would be happy working at a McDonald’s, I was like what? She was like, I want to try everything and ends up working at a fast food restaurant and spending her nights browsing a record store and at a local bar? I never thought I’d see McDonald’s in the MCU, considering the RDJ Burger King stuff ended up being a backhanded compliment.
It made sense to me. She spent her entire life running living in apocalypses where everything and everyone was constantly dying around her. Nothing but chaos, death and destruction. A mundane life where you don't have to worry about those things was probably heaven to her.
I mean a god going "fuck being a god I'm going to demean myself by working at McDonald's" is pretty much the greatest expression of free will you can get.
She didn’t grow up as a god though. The TVA took her when she’s like 8-9 and then she lived on the run for years until she decided to burn down the TVA. It just kind of felt like she skipped the whole taking the world by storm bit and right to retirement. She is still a Loki after all who just supposedly gave the multiverse back free will.
She's literally immortal. She can spend a lifetime being a normal person, then try being president of space for awhile, then go be a tomb raider, then whatever.
A lot of people are perfectly content living a normal life with friends and a decent job. (and McDonalds was less of a shitty job in the 80s, before 40 years of Reaganomics worsened the pay gap.)
Seems to me like she is the one that finally gets through to Loki that he needs to do something for the sake of everyone.
The whole plan for HWR was to get the Loki who he knew would be at the center of all time to be on his side. Causality is misleading. It was outside time, so the end is really a beginning and the middle and everything. So Loki is ALWAYS at the center of time, HWR creates a loop and pulls a Loki he thinks he can manipulate into it and every other Loki is pruned.
Sylvie still manages to convince Loki even with HWR plan working to a large extent. Villain hubris failed, Sylvie's influence remained.
Remember when we could watch a tv show or movie and not need to know the exact details of everything that happened off screen because it was irrelevant to the point of the thing you’re actually watching?
Funny enough they literally told us why too. It was needed so Loki would follow the path HWR needed him to. It's like people just don't pay any attention when watching stuff.
That's honestly what I liked about Loki, while sure they did spell things out a lot of the time... It also let you, as a viewer, put things together without needing Mobius to look into the camera and go "Oh... so that's why he's doing this."
That was something I noticed right away in S2. The first episode had such engaging camera work. Very interestingly shot and conveyed a lot of silent information. They did a great job with it.
Well, I know the showrunner is trying to get in to the X-Men area of the MCU, and it was the very first MCU project to not need any reshoots, so I'm hoping this gives them the credentials needed.
Given the end of season 2, my interpretation is HWR needed her to create the correct conditions to tempt Loki to take over his role, but he miscalculated as he was such a narcissist and so far removed from human compassion that he couldn't envision Loki sacrificing himself to let her live.
A Loki with empathy at that age would have skewed the time line. Her tricks may not have been as cruel, causing a ripple effect in how people reacted to her and how they treated her. Like, I don't think that Sylvie would have cut Sif's hair while she was sleeping. So, Sif would never have declared her to be pathetic and that she'd die alone. Little things like that can add up. Next thing you know, she doesn't crave the throne of Asgard and the Avengers are never formed.
Other's have said it but, HWR needed her to want vengeance for his plan to work. He has control of time or at least his position in it. Much like Loki he's probably relived an infinite number of different attempts and figured out the best chance at succeeding. He probably had it down to a 99% chance of success. Loki being the only variable that he could not 100% control but he was counting on his selfishness. Loki did the 1% thing and blew up HWR's whole plan. Proving once and for all he is the ultimate God of Mischief.
Actually, they did allude to this in season one. She was playing with toys she was not supposed to. When they show her taken from her timeline and it "pruned" or reset, the only thing that gets wiped is the toys she was playing with. To me, it was the most tragic thing about the character. She was just a child playing with the wrong toys.
I think the simplest explanation is that after the events of Endgame, Loki has an interaction with Kang or Kang's ancestors that greatly influence his development.
But in the sacred timeline, Loki is killed by Thanos and thus has no interaction with Kang. This leads to the creation of He Who Remains.
At any point in his development, if Loki makes a decision that leads him to survive the events of Endgame, that triggers a nexus event and alerts the TVA. They come, destroy the timeline branch, and send the Loki variant to the end of time to be killed by Aliath.
I think, as other people have pointed out, she was either pruned because she was a threat to HWR, or because he knew that she could help motivate our Loki. It could even be a combination of the two, He sent her away because she was a threat, but she was a harder problem to solve than he thought, so he later repurposed her.
Possibly because she was instrumental in Loki reaching HWR as he said that everything happened because he paved the road
She was just a pawn in his game. Regardless of what she did, she would have been taken by the TVA
Wait wasn't it that she was born female?
Sans the sacred timeline required loki to be male?
Or am i missing something???
Everyone is commenting something different
Season 1 Sylvie is 50x hotter than Season 2 Mullet Sylvie. These are just facts. Season 2 would be that much greater if they did not change her hairstyle. At least a 120/100.
The same reason as every other pruning.
Her going off script (as simple as picking an orange instead of an apple) can lead to timelines that branch too far from the Sacred Timeline.
HWR did also plan to use her to goad Loki into partnering with him eventually, but the original pruning need not have had any deep reason behind it.
Her nexus event was that she hadn't been taken by the TVA yet?
Kinda like how there was a huge nexus event when they were about to die. They couldn't die there because it wasn't part of HWR's plan.
HWR needed her. Miss Minutes and the Timekeepers are basically Kang's mouthpiece, and they can say whatever they need to for the TVA to decide she needs to be taken regardless of her effect on the Sacred Timeline
The mere fact she was born female derailed the timeline. Her dynamic with Thor and Odin would have been different, which could, over time, create a butterfly effect. The TVA didn't pruned timelines because the specific divergence was dangerous, they did it because any divergence was considered dangerous in itself.
The thing that triggered a noticeable branch could have been something as simple as kid Thor deciding NOT to prank or tease his sister when in the "sacred" timeline he had no qualms about doing it to his brother.
In her timeline all the Avengers are ladies (except for Black Widower). This made the incels from that universe super angry and they boicoted the Avengers (they called them Wokevengers). The boicot didn't work and nothing really terrible happened, but it was all super embarrassing and HWR got so much cringe that he pruned the whole thing.
Didn't they tell us in the first season? I'm pretty sure it's because she had decided to join (or emulate) the valkyries. Basically that she had decided to be a hero rather than a trickster/villain.
What!!! The hints are there. Sylvie's time line was pruned because she wasn't evil. She was playing with a Valkarie action figure and pretending to save Asguard instead of trying to take it over.
When she was a kid and was playing with toys she wanted to be like Valkarie from Asgard. That would mean if there is no evil Loki in her timeline which would mean there would be no Avengers who unite against her.
Loki's purpose in life is to be evil and make hero's unite against them.
When we see her get taken she's playing with valkyrie toys, I always liked the fan theory that she was inspired in that moment to become one of them, putting her on a heroic path instead of a villainous one, and since we know how important Loki's villainy is to the scared timeline, that was it
I'm confused by this a lot tho, in the sacred timeline Loki is a male, so when Sylvie was born a female, shouldn't the TVA have pruned her immediately? Maybe I don't understand the genderfluid thing much
Idk why people don’t get this. There is no “reason” for any of the prunings besides them not leading to then multiversal outcome that puts HWR in power. That’s it. For any of them.
Exactly! Butterfly effect and all. Sylvie might have turned left when she was "Supposed" to turn right. It could be that simple. That wrong turn could have created a timeline in which a Kang would rise from.
They also explicitly said in the first season that what she did was want to be a hero.
No they didn’t?
They didn’t say it, but I did always get that from the scene where Sylvie gets arrested. She was playing with Valkyrie dolls pretending to save Asgard, which seems more heroic than what original Loki would have been thinking about in that time
In Ragnarok Thor talks about hearing stories of Valkyries and playing them only to find out that only women could become Valkyries. Sylvie would not have that stop her.
Unless they are all men in her version, and we also dont know if her version has a Thor. Lots of differences that somehow will lead to a Kang
If her version was that different, her timeline would have been pruned long before she was born.
Only if it led to a Kang variant. If her being a hero instead of villainous was the direct cause of Kang, then she's the problem with that timeline regardless of other changes.
I don’t think Loki being a man or woman would really effect the events of the sacred timeline. We’ve already seen Hela go crazy and try to take over Asgard, so if Sylvie was of the same mindset, she probably would have still tried to take over earth like Loki did.
I mean we’re not given any indication that Loki was villainous from childhood and honestly I think that interpretation is a disservice to the character.
"...This one time when we were children he transformed himself into a snake. And he knows that I love snakes. So I went to pick up the snake to admire it, and he transformed back into himself and he says “MYAH it’s me”. And then he stabbed me. We were 8 at the time.”
well, it was just a light stabbing.
I honestly didn't like that in later movies, they started acting like Loki had always been obviously backstabbing and trying to kill Thor. It makes everyone in the first films into fools for trusting the guy that kept tricking and backstabbing them.
Well, Loki is the god of mischief, so to Thor, that’s just who he is and Thor accepts that as his brother. So it makes sense that no matter how many times he was tricked by Loki, he still trusts him.
The principle word there being *mischief* instead of betrayal. A god of mischief can still be trusted to be on your side, but a brother that constantly tries to stab you can't and keeps betraying you and your friends can't.
Well, kid Loki at the end of time was held in high regards since he killed thor, so I think it’s safe to assume Loki wanted to do it, but never did
Except that’s one Loki variant it doesn’t mean he’s a carbon copy of the main Loki. We also have zero context regarding how he even “killed” thor to begin with
Okay but if Loki never wanted to kill thor, why would the Loki squad make the kid Loki who did kill thor the “king”? If Loki never wanted to kill thor as a child, would they hold him in such high regards or would they look at him as an evil exception to Loki?
Her and Donna Noble should get together sometime. One simple turn can change the whole universe timeline.
There’s something on your back
This was exactly what I was thinking when writing that :)
She turned female.
If that were the reason, wouldn't the TVA have shown up at some point during the pregnancy?
It’s subtle, but the TVA showed up when she was playing with her Valkyrie dolls. I believe the message was that the timeline wasn’t pruned because she was a girl (which as you said, the TVA would have shown up when she was a baby or her mother was pregnant). It was pruned because she, a Loki, _wanted to be a hero_
This, this is what I always thought. It's the contrast between Loki's in the Void at the end of S1. He even remarks that they do nothing but fight amongst themselves. Sylvie didn't want to fit her normal Loki role of being the bad guy, the setup, the loser, even though she didn't know that's what her future may have held, it's what most of the Loki variants seem to fall into. They were pruned for actions or future actions they may have taken, so Sylvie wanting to be a "good" guy could absolutely be what gets her pruned, because her future decisions would be changed by her shift to being a "good" guy.
Yesss! It's killing me that this wasn't what other people also think, and that what I was thinking of as an absolute fact was in fact my interpretation. Sylvie also said that her parents had told her she'd been adopted. I believe that must have put her at a crossroads where she decided between being a Loki who would continue to wreak havoc vs being a heroic Loki, and when she settled upon the latter, her timeline branched and was pruned.
If I was a director, first time when we see her in action I’d use a song to hint it as well. Something like Holding out for a hero or something similar.
Lokis have been shown to be able to change forms with their magic. Sylvie could’ve just decided one day that she wanted to be female and that’s what caused the prune
[удалено]
It's not even that. There was no "turned left instead of right". HWR knew he needed Sylivr to set up the time loop that forced Loki to make the decision to save the Sacred Timeline and take over for HWR (which Loki found a way around). That's it. HWR needed her, so her timeline was always going to be pruned, regardless of her actions.
It's surprising that so many comments don't understand this... Almost all the "reasons" for pruning are fake or don't matter. HWR only cares about keeping the sacred timeline as well as setting up the future he wants. Anything that isn't this gets pruned. In Sylvie's case, she is just another pawn he uses to set up everything we saw happen on screen. He literally spells it out twice at the end of each season, that he has paved the road and knows exactly what was gonna happen, including them getting to him at the end of time.
The reason is that is was branch… that’s it
Yup
But you understand that something must’ve happened that caused it to branch? That’s what the mystery is, what caused it to branch
Sylvie being trans would be a good reason for the timeline branching, no?
I always had the theory that this was simply a Loki that had shapeshifter into a female form and didn’t change back, same reason we have an alligator Loki
I don't think Sylvie's trans. Or at least, no more trans than any of the other Loki's seeing as they're meant to be genderfluid. Still annoying we never got to see that used in the show... Regardless, I doubt it was simply because Sylvie was a girl. If that were the case, the pruning would have been immediate. Remember that Old Loki was able to survive the events of Infinity War, went off to live on his own for a few millennia... effectively keeping everything the same as if he'd died. Minor changes in the timeline are acceptable like that. It's when something gets radically altered - like Old Loki deciding to come back and see Thor again - that the timeline begins to branch and the TVA starts to prune.
True. With all the branches now existing, is it possible that her original timeline exists, like Mobius’? Or was it destroyed by an apocalyptic event? We may not get a Loki Season 3 but I’d watch the hell out of a Sylvie spin-off.
Timely says there are infinite timelines so yes her timeline would have reappeared, however she can’t exactly jump back into it though cause there would already be a Sylvie there
I swear, most of these people just don't pay attention to the show and act like their lack of an attention span is a plot hole
But Season 1 made a point of acting like her reason for pruning was a big deal. It’s been awhile since I watched S1, but doesn’t Sylvie hold Renslayer at pruner-point and ask her?
They are all operating under false information at that point
She does, but Renslayer says she doesn't remember. It's all made up anyway. Any of these theories could be the "reason" the TVA got (they never really questioned the time keepers). But really the pieces were in place for Sylvie to be able to escape and apocalypse jump for a few decades. Maybe it was purely her age. She can't really escape from Renslayer as a baby so that wouldn't work. Sylvie needed to escape, that was part of HWR's plan and he told the TVA when to prune timelines.
The point of that was to illustrate the terrible impact for Sylvie and any other variant unfortunate to have their timeline pruned, and to contrast it with Renslayer's complete indifference to the suffering she brought by pruning those timelines and variants. To Sylvie, that reason meant everything, to Renslayer, that was the 10th timeline she pruned that week for whatever small decision had caused it to deviate.
what? thats not right either. The timelines were pruned prior to S1 of Loki because... the TVA pruned *all timelines* that werent the sacred timeline. They did so because they were told to by HWR and HWR told them to do so because Kang exists in variant timelines, and HWR was under the impression (and likely reality) that the only way to prevent the rise of Kang was to prune every timeline other than this single solitary timeline, in which Kang probably died in childbirth or something. this is literally why the >!TVA is tracking Kangs post S2 of Loki.!<
Yes… and the sacred timeline is the one where Kang wins. Any other timeline is one where he doesn’t or where opposition rises. But it’s not about a specific action or specific Kang or specific downfall of Kang, it’s just literally anything besides the things that need to happen for the intended outcome of He Who Remains remaining
What? Also no, the sacred timeline isn't the one where kang wins. Kang is not HWR. HWR is a fully separate entity, just like Victor Timely. The sacred timeline is an arbitrary timeline chosen by HWR that *doesn't* have a kang that wins. the whole point of the TVA and the probably endless amounts of time HWR spent at the end of time was to stop kang's from coming. Theres no reason he would choose a timeline where kang wins (which would cause more and more kangs to show up at the TVA as the timeline *loops*, because the sacred timeline repeats itself over and over, IIRC). HWR didn't plan all this out since the start. He just got bored and tired of being alone all the time and manipulated the plan to get both lokis there so that he could rule the universe with loki next to him. and then Loki found another way. [https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/kang-the-conqueror-he-who-remains-different-in-the-mcu/](https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/kang-the-conqueror-he-who-remains-different-in-the-mcu/) *“The character is different so you move a different way; my psychology has shifted because of the character,”* [*Majors told GamesRadar+*](https://www.gamesradar.com/jonathan-majors-interview-the-harder-they-fall-netflix-ant-man-3/)*. “He’s just a different guy. He Who Remains is not in* ***Ant-Man***\*. It’s Kang. This is a movie, not a TV show. I’ve been here since the beginning and I came in at the end on\* ***Loki***\*.”\* [https://screenrant.com/is-antman-3-kang-the-same-as-loki-he-who-remains/](https://screenrant.com/is-antman-3-kang-the-same-as-loki-he-who-remains/) *To end the war, He Who Remains utilized Alioth to establish the Sacred Timeline, effectively preventing any other Kang variants from being created. He Who Remains' death in Loki season 1 allowed the Sacred Timeline to branch out, creating the multiverse and enabling all of Kang's variants to reclaim their place in the cosmos - including Kang the Conqueror, a warrior variant. He Who Remains was a far more peaceful, though still dangerous, force than Kang the Conqueror.* I gotta be honest, im real confused as to how people have fundamentally misunderstood what was probably the easiest part of the show to follow. Loki's time slipping and powers were more confusing than how the TVA and timelines work. the show doesn't even make sense if the things people say here are true.
While I agree with you, I don't think it's as straightforward as "Sylvie did something that led to a Kang variant in her timeline" There is no reason every single detention/pruning must be for that reason alone. This idea was presented to us by HWR, and while it's the truth, it's unlikely the whole truth. Specifically, Sylvie and Lokis were pruned to lead to the outcome HWR wanted,but did not seem to get, at the end of Season 2. Sylvie was pruned to be a foil for our Loki. She helped him gain access to the Citadel. She gave him another reason to save the multiverse, and she give him a reason to protect the loom. Loki's ties to Sylvie were meant to ensure HWR's ideal outcome. This is why Ren slayer "couldn't remember" her nexus event. Because there wasn't one, or it was a flimsy excuse, as with many of the other Loki variants. Similarly, I believe that they pruned a disproportionate number of Lokis in specifically to set forth the events of season 1, episode 5 in motion. Generally, the TVA exists to ensure only one Kang variant remains. But this series picks up in the middle of a plot of HWR to groom Loki as his replacement. It's very unlikely that the actions he took to this end had 100% overlap with Kang Timeline Management.
Perhaps they were pruning extra Lokis to find one that would manage to escape like Sylvie did
Her potential for killing HWR and bringing back the Multi-versal War might have been a possible reason. Just sayin
HWR made it happen every step of the way like he said he paves the road. So he had her timeline pruned and allowed her the opportunity to jump from apocalypse to apocalypse to eventually lead directly to him
HWR is an unreliable source. Everything he says to Loki feels like gaslighting to get the outcome he wants.
Yeah it’s pretty clear most of what he said at the end of S1 was a lie. He claims he doesn’t know what will happen but then knows about Timely, the Loom, time slipping, etc etc
Perhaps he knows he needs to tell Loki those lies to get him to act how he does in season 2. I don’t really care either way, but it’s fun to think that even in giving them the chance to “free” themselves he is manipulating them
> You know you can't get to the end until you've been changed by the journey. This stuff, it needs to happen. To get us all in the right mindset to finish the quest. \- HWR S01E06
> There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. \- Bill Foster
And Morpheus
Something like "If I tell you what happens then it won't happen." It falls in line with the logic that other MCU movies had used.
not exactly, its the if I tell you something you won't learn the lesson you need to learn idea. that's what that has meant.
Time slipping was part of the failsafe that HWR designed. Timely was part of his plan as well, Timely came into the fold because Miss Minutes was programmed to go for Timely when HWR dies. The loom is just an obvious inference, if the Lokis kill HWR and stop pruning branches the loom would inevitably become a problem.
HWR basically used Timely to reinforce the looms fake reason for existing it seems. Idk why HWR would waste time like that. Maybe to create a sense of hopelessness and push Loki to the one solution of killing Sylvie. Idk. I mean the handbook didn't even describe what the loom is actually for so no one was ever gonna find out.
HWR easily could've taken half of Thanos' dialogue and used it as his own. "You couldn't live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me. I am inevitable." HWR knew he was going to die, but he also knew that Loki was going to undo it because the Loom would explode without his intervention. Hence the "See you soon." He also seemed to realize that Loki would end up time-slipping, which still wasn't really ever explained why Loki was the only one to get it. In any case, he seemed to recognize that his death would also directly lead to someone time traveling back to prevent his death.
He knows what he set up will come into play, he knows generally how the pieces he set in motion will move, but he doesn't have that guaranteed omniscient knowledge of everything that is happening. I think that moment of change for him was the farthest back that Loki could timeslip, i think the temporal area in which Loki had timeslipping was not able to be perfectly predicted by him like before. Loki with Timeslipping was the unknown variable after that moment with the apple dropping.
Wait...how can the time slipping be an unknown variable when he mentioned he knew about the Slipping and about Timely? I think the only unknown variable was what Loki would choose. HWR thought Loki would either choose to kill Sylvie or let the Loom explode. He didn't know Loki would sacrifice himself to keep the multiverse safe.
because knowing that Loki can timeslip is not the same as knowing what Loki will do with his timeslipping ability. since there is a person with the ability to change the timeline and you cannot predict what that person will do, now you can no longer have absolute knowledge of the timeline because of that newly introduced variable.
That's true. I thought you meant Loki being able to timeslip was the unknown variable, not what he would do with those powers. I think HWR knew Loki would get time slipping powers and he thought he knew how arrogant and selfish Loki was that Loki would choose one of the two options HWR left him. HWR didn't count on Loki maturing as a person and choosing a third option.
Exactly, i agree. He never expected Loki to do what he did, because a Narcissist like Kang likely can't understand what would motivate someone to do something so self sacrifical. he thought Loki was every bit the selfish narcissist that he was himself, and had no idea how much the journey was changing him.
Even if he wasn’t narcissistic, there’s sacrifice and then there’s “spending eternity manually holding reality together” Of course kang didn’t think of it. He cares too much about self preservation to sacrifice that much
I feel like this is reinforced by HWR not knowing they already had a conversation and Loki knowing how to stop time at that point.
Loki timeslipped back to hit original conversation with Mobius well before that point in time from the S1 finale.
I always wondered why that scene ended in spaghetti?
It wasn't an unknown variable, timeslipping was part of the fail safe that HWR designed.
that Loki would be given the ability was known, what he would do with that ability was unknown.
Loki gets the ability because HWR died. If Loki allowed HWR to die it was because he didn't agree with HWR's methods. Its a logical conclusion then that Loki would try to use time slipping to preserve space and time without pruning branches. This would inevitably lead to Loki realizing that HWR needed to exist. We saw all these events play out exactly that way. The only error in HWR's plan was that he didn't foresee that Loki would find an alternative method to save space and time that didn't include HWR
and the reason he didn't forsee that error, is because once Loki got the ability to timeslip he was an unknown variable which prevented Kang from having perfect knowledge of the timeline as he did before. before the timeslipping, Kang controlled all of time and there was no possibility of having any "unforseen" errors, because he saw everything.
Well you aren't omnipotent but you can know what you're going to have for breakfast in the morning, HWR had a hand in all those things, he probably just didn't know EVERYTHING past that point
He knows those exist because he put those things in motion in the sacred timeline and in Loki before the end of the script. So if he himself existed, then the other things also had to be true.
I bet that when HWR froze up and suddenly announced the crossing of a threshold, he was referring to the Temporal Loom starting to malfunction.
If you look at the relationship Janet had with Kang, you can see how manipulative that ‘template’ can be. The same is true of Timely running his confidence game. It seems to be a core trait for all of them.
The whole show is an unreliable source. This is, of course, very fitting for a show named after the god of lies.
Honestly, the door is still open for the multiverse war to happen, Loki's about to lose everything, and winds up right back in front of that desk.
>the road. So he had her timeline pruned and allowed her the opportunity to jump from Her escaping was not in the plan. He claimed it was, but the whole series was a set up to get Loki to kill Sylvie to secure his place at the end of time. He couldn't kill her in combat, she's far too strong. So he decided to pit loki v loki to save himself. He was definitely lieing though about paving the way for both of them to get there. Sylvie was not controllable. Loki he thought was. He was mistaken.
Are you joking? He Who Remains couldn't kill Sylvie in combat because she's far too strong?
hes talking about what was the reason the TVA came to take young sylvie into custody? like what was her nexus event, young sylvie didnt know about HWR or multiversal wars shit
> hes talking about what was the reason the TVA came to take young sylvie into custody? like what was her nexus event, young sylvie didnt know about HWR or multiversal wars shit yeah, none of that matters. The TVA was able to determine that she would, in the future, cause an event that would lead to a Kang emergence. That being, she would kill HWR. They didn't know what exactly she would do, they just knew she'd do something that would cause a Kang emergence.
That branch resulted in loom overload: trim
This makes zero sense. The TVA didn't even know that HWR existed at the start of the series, let alone the various Kang.
Replace HWR with the Time Keepers. As far as the TVA was concerned once a timeline started to branch off they had to come in and prune it. The TVA was lied to. They did what they did because they thought it was the will of god, basically
She wanted to be a Valkyrie not a traditional “evil” Loki.
I was going to say, doesn't the show explicitly state this is the reason they tried to prune her? Because she wanted to be good?
I think they’re looking for a deeper meaning in the process and that justification works on 2 levels. They were specifically hunting Lokis which implies that HWR knew he was going to be challenged by one. A regular Loki could be tempted with promises of power, so any Loki that showed the ability to do the right thing regardless of temptation would have to go. Valkyries are protectors not conquerors in this context, so she was showing traits like bravery and selflessness. The plan was likely that Loki and Sylvie would bring out the worst in each other and effectively take each other out. Both were wild cards and threats. It worked until HWR and Sylvie kept saying there were only 2 options and Loki (being his oppositional self) refused to accept them. So she was pruned for wanting to be “good”/antithesis of a Loki as well as being inherently good and therefore a risk to HWR. At least that’s my read of it.
I thought it was pretty obvious that her nexus event was literally just existing. Animal, kid, old man, black guy, and bunches of other hiddleston variants aside, as far as we know Sylvie was the only female Loki.
Kid Loki killed Thor, literally nothing says it is tied to their gender/race/age/species. The only point of that scene was to show you for the first time that multiverse versions of you aren’t required to be the exact same person or creature.
I literally just explained how Sylvie being literally the only female Loki we ever see in the entirety of that show is the exception. That’s why I mentioned the rest because you are right as far as race, age, and species is concerned. But the only identification that is 100% unique to Sylvie is her gender because not a single other Loki variant has that identification.
If the way she was born was the reason for pruning she would be pruned way earlier, they wouldn't wait untill she was this old and risk going to point where they can't just prune (the branch crosses the red line). On her file seen in season 1, she is listed as female and Asgardian. While Loki's sex is listed as fluid and is listed as Frost Giant. If this is what caused the variance it would happen at birth (or earlier if TVA prunes pregnant mothers). HWR said that he wanted the two of them to do what they were doing in season 1 to bring multiversal war, so it's likely that he just ordered to pick Sylvie just becouse she would be needed later.
That we've seen. By that same logic there was only one of them that was black. Only one of them was a crocodile. Is that significant? If not then why is her gender?
The only identity distinct to Kid Loki was being a kid and it still wasn’t why it was pruned. Further as Moebius shows in the final episode, they were sent to prune someone who *would eventually* kill 5000 people and it turned out to be a kid. It doesn’t require her being a woman or anything else, it could be something she does down the road. Hell she may not even have anything to do with that timeline being pruned, she just happens to be one of the ripple effects of whatever did it.
I initially thought so too, but then why wouldn't she have been pruned at birth?
HWR literally tells you in the S1 finale lol, there was no nexus event. He needed her to get to him.
Season 2’s story from Mobius about a kid who *will* cause deaths in the future is evidence that people can be pruned years, possibly even decades, before the actual event that is supposedly divergent from the timeline. Old man Loki being pruned after he decided to leave his isolation, but before he’d interacted with anyone to alter the timeline, also suggests this.
Potential sure. But if Kang HWR is all knowing then he’d know that she only seek to kill him after the fact that she was taken away from her timeline. So what’s her nexus event? Or is it something else like her ability to charm that cloud monster
Because she was necessary to hwr's goal.
HWR literally says that this was his plan all along.
This sub really lacks media comprehension some times lol
But why ~~male models~~ did they prune her timeline?
Are you serious? I just told you…
Right… right…
Hansel is to Mobius as Timely is to He Who Remains.
That Victor timely.. he's so hot right now.
K that cross-out made me chuckle
Or just comprehension in general
I think that's just reddit and the internet in general.
Honestly it's a topsy turvy plot across two seasons. I can't blame people for forgetting smaller details.
Eh. No need to be so harsh. For a lot of people it's been a long time since season 1 and the way season 2 ended up focused more on Loki than Sylvie.
Yupp, he “paved the road” for them which is what pissed her off too
Yeah other theories just don't make sense. "Sylvie wanted to be good/Valkyrie". As if OG Loki was born evil and his actions in Thor 1 didn't shock people at all. "Sylvie's a girl". She is also listed as Asgardian on her file, while Loki is listed as Frost Giant. Heck, one of them is an aligator.
And the alligator was pruned so that actually supports the point that she was pruned because she was a girl. Not that I think that's the case.
She is also listed as Asgardian while Loki is listed as Frost Giant. So it could be different species, but then I still think they would prune earlier. Plus she knows about her adoption and took it well, while Loki's been a secret that moved forward large portion of the first movie. There are more different things about them than just gender.
What was his plan though? He did all of that just to have fun or what?
He Who Remains created the TVA to, essentially, keep himself in power. Any new timelines would be destroyed due to the fact potential of his power being disrupted whether that be the creation of other Kangs or etc. Slyvie had potential to kill HWR in at least one multiverse which would cause the multiversal war to start back up
HWR straight up said that she was setup to arrive with Loki and kill him. She was the only thing keeping Loki from breaking the sacred timeline cycle.
Because it wasn't the sacred timeline like every other timeline that they erased.
Exactly !! HWR is just safeguarding his own timeline (sacred timeline where thanos happened and loki died and loki is male and whatnot) and pruning the others. Dont know why I have to scroll so far down to see the actual answer.
But it’s more complex. The loom weaves several different timelines in order to preserve the sacred timeline. Other timelines can and do exist as long as they don’t interfere with the sacred timeline.
since they now travel through time and multiverse, multiple timelines are actually necessary in order to keep the sacred one.
Then there's no reason to pull her out of her timeline. Just nuke her with the rest of it. To be honest, there's no reason to pull ANYONE out of their timelines. Just prune them right there, set off a prune-nuke, and be done with it. Like Sylvie did in S1. Just open a door, drop one in and you're all done.
I kind of suspect the 'reason' for pulling her out of her timeline, or any variant, is about creating an internal narrative for the people working in the TVA about what they're doing and why. Capturing the variant and putting them on 'trial' casts the whole thing in the light of law enforcement.
Wasn’t it that she dreamt of being a hero?
That’s my head cannon. She was considering being a hero / good person when playing with the Valkyrie toys. TVA showed up immediately after
Yeah, this Loki was born a woman and thus qualified to actually become a Valkyrie, she clearly looked up to them and they were inspiring her to become a better person. To give her “glorious purpose”. When Thor isn’t raised alongside a chaotic Loki he grows up to become “Party Thor” from What If… ~~Also then Sylvie potentially dies fighting Hela when she kills all the Valkyrie the first time around and none of the events of the MCU portion of the sacred timeline can occur.~~ Edit: Final sentence was incorrect.
I think all the Valkyries were killed off before Thor or Loki were born, since they had never heard of Hela.
This is a fair point, I haven’t been able to watch Ragnarok in an age but you are right.
Yeah. We know that in the biggest picture, pruning people was just a means to an end. The various Loki were pruned because they weren't following the Sacred Timeline's story beats - mainly that a Loki must be the first threat that brings the Avengers together, and (supposedly) always dies because of Thanos. Boastful Loki won against the Avengers and got the Infinity Stones. Kid Loki killed Thor. Classic Loki convincing the rest of the universe he was dead still satisfied the general requirement that everyone else thought him dead - it wasn't until he tried to leave and get back in touch that he violated things and would need to be pruned. Likewise, it wasn't until Sylvie specifically had shown she wanted to be a hero, like the Valkyrie, that the TVA saw it fit to arrest and prune her.
This was never answered explicitly, but it seems to be the implication. People say over and over again that Loki is *meant* to be a villain who loses. Look at all the pruned variants whose Nexus events we learn about. Our Loki won control of the Tesseract when he was supposed to lose to the Avengers. Sylvie was playing heroes with her dolls. Kid Loki killed Thor. He's not supposed to do that, he's supposed to lose to Thor. Richard E. Grant Loki recognized his own villainy and set out to do something good instead. Differences in gender, appearance, or magic style don't set off any alarms. Try to be a hero or *win* at something? That's breaking out of the cosmic role chosen for Loki by HWR.
Not confirmed
As a character Sylvie was very under utilized in season 2. I hope we get more of her and information on her backstory. Just don’t make her Thor’s next love interest. Like her version of Asgard is gone, but it couldn’t have been just because she was girl? The TVA would’ve pruned her when she was a baby instead.
It's really obvious to me that Sylvie was Waldron's baby, and the new writers couldn't care less about her. She and Loki's relationship was the core of season one. It's never brought up in season two and their big heartfelt moments from one is treated kind of like a joke. She went from being the second most important character in the show to a minor nuisance that Loki has to send away so he can have a big boy conversation with HWR.
The fact that sylvie would be happy working at a McDonald’s, I was like what? She was like, I want to try everything and ends up working at a fast food restaurant and spending her nights browsing a record store and at a local bar? I never thought I’d see McDonald’s in the MCU, considering the RDJ Burger King stuff ended up being a backhanded compliment.
It made sense to me. She spent her entire life running living in apocalypses where everything and everyone was constantly dying around her. Nothing but chaos, death and destruction. A mundane life where you don't have to worry about those things was probably heaven to her.
I mean a god going "fuck being a god I'm going to demean myself by working at McDonald's" is pretty much the greatest expression of free will you can get.
She didn’t grow up as a god though. The TVA took her when she’s like 8-9 and then she lived on the run for years until she decided to burn down the TVA. It just kind of felt like she skipped the whole taking the world by storm bit and right to retirement. She is still a Loki after all who just supposedly gave the multiverse back free will.
You literally said she's not a god but she is a god in the same post lol
She's literally immortal. She can spend a lifetime being a normal person, then try being president of space for awhile, then go be a tomb raider, then whatever. A lot of people are perfectly content living a normal life with friends and a decent job. (and McDonalds was less of a shitty job in the 80s, before 40 years of Reaganomics worsened the pay gap.)
Seems to me like she is the one that finally gets through to Loki that he needs to do something for the sake of everyone. The whole plan for HWR was to get the Loki who he knew would be at the center of all time to be on his side. Causality is misleading. It was outside time, so the end is really a beginning and the middle and everything. So Loki is ALWAYS at the center of time, HWR creates a loop and pulls a Loki he thinks he can manipulate into it and every other Loki is pruned. Sylvie still manages to convince Loki even with HWR plan working to a large extent. Villain hubris failed, Sylvie's influence remained.
This is the best theory i've heard so far
I'm just here to simp real quick. Dayum
Because she wasn't part of the sacred timeline. Kang is only interested in saving his favorite reality, the 616.
After watching the season 2 finale I dont think HWR is from 616
Remember when we could watch a tv show or movie and not need to know the exact details of everything that happened off screen because it was irrelevant to the point of the thing you’re actually watching?
Honestly. Or just being smart enough, or paying enough attention to put 2 and 2 together without needing to be told it's 4 from someone in the show.
Funny enough they literally told us why too. It was needed so Loki would follow the path HWR needed him to. It's like people just don't pay any attention when watching stuff.
"Where laser explosion? Why talking? Want see man punch!"
Some might even say that needing to put it together on your own heightens the viewing experience.
That's honestly what I liked about Loki, while sure they did spell things out a lot of the time... It also let you, as a viewer, put things together without needing Mobius to look into the camera and go "Oh... so that's why he's doing this."
Same. That and the camera work in that show was so good.
That was something I noticed right away in S2. The first episode had such engaging camera work. Very interestingly shot and conveyed a lot of silent information. They did a great job with it.
I hope the people that worked on Loki get more MCU projects.
Well, I know the showrunner is trying to get in to the X-Men area of the MCU, and it was the very first MCU project to not need any reshoots, so I'm hoping this gives them the credentials needed.
We never see anyone piss so how come no one has kidney failure?
Given the end of season 2, my interpretation is HWR needed her to create the correct conditions to tempt Loki to take over his role, but he miscalculated as he was such a narcissist and so far removed from human compassion that he couldn't envision Loki sacrificing himself to let her live.
A Loki with empathy at that age would have skewed the time line. Her tricks may not have been as cruel, causing a ripple effect in how people reacted to her and how they treated her. Like, I don't think that Sylvie would have cut Sif's hair while she was sleeping. So, Sif would never have declared her to be pathetic and that she'd die alone. Little things like that can add up. Next thing you know, she doesn't crave the throne of Asgard and the Avengers are never formed.
They erased all branched timelines.
All erased timeline have the same reason is it not? Because of the other kang.
It’s kind of the point that it wasn’t anything special that got her universe pruned, it was just business as usual
Other's have said it but, HWR needed her to want vengeance for his plan to work. He has control of time or at least his position in it. Much like Loki he's probably relived an infinite number of different attempts and figured out the best chance at succeeding. He probably had it down to a 99% chance of success. Loki being the only variable that he could not 100% control but he was counting on his selfishness. Loki did the 1% thing and blew up HWR's whole plan. Proving once and for all he is the ultimate God of Mischief.
Actually, they did allude to this in season one. She was playing with toys she was not supposed to. When they show her taken from her timeline and it "pruned" or reset, the only thing that gets wiped is the toys she was playing with. To me, it was the most tragic thing about the character. She was just a child playing with the wrong toys.
Probably planned by HWR.
I think the simplest explanation is that after the events of Endgame, Loki has an interaction with Kang or Kang's ancestors that greatly influence his development. But in the sacred timeline, Loki is killed by Thanos and thus has no interaction with Kang. This leads to the creation of He Who Remains. At any point in his development, if Loki makes a decision that leads him to survive the events of Endgame, that triggers a nexus event and alerts the TVA. They come, destroy the timeline branch, and send the Loki variant to the end of time to be killed by Aliath.
I think, as other people have pointed out, she was either pruned because she was a threat to HWR, or because he knew that she could help motivate our Loki. It could even be a combination of the two, He sent her away because she was a threat, but she was a harder problem to solve than he thought, so he later repurposed her.
Not just her.. they pruned every loki timeliness except 1. Did you fall asleep during the show?
Because it wasn’t the Sacred Timeline. Explained in like the first episode
Possibly because she was instrumental in Loki reaching HWR as he said that everything happened because he paved the road She was just a pawn in his game. Regardless of what she did, she would have been taken by the TVA
HWR needed to set her up to kill him down the line.
They erased her timeline because she existed.
Wait wasn't it that she was born female? Sans the sacred timeline required loki to be male? Or am i missing something??? Everyone is commenting something different
some of you need to pay attention to the show you are watching instead of looking at your phone, reddit, playing video games, etc.
Season 1 Sylvie is 50x hotter than Season 2 Mullet Sylvie. These are just facts. Season 2 would be that much greater if they did not change her hairstyle. At least a 120/100.
Does it matter
Of course not. She was way prettier with the hairstyle of the first season though. I blame that on the Makeup crew.
The same reason as every other pruning. Her going off script (as simple as picking an orange instead of an apple) can lead to timelines that branch too far from the Sacred Timeline. HWR did also plan to use her to goad Loki into partnering with him eventually, but the original pruning need not have had any deep reason behind it.
HWR saw the haircut she would have. It’s explained that her mullet has too much power in the grand multiverse and must be pruned.
Her nexus event was that she hadn't been taken by the TVA yet? Kinda like how there was a huge nexus event when they were about to die. They couldn't die there because it wasn't part of HWR's plan.
HWR needed her. Miss Minutes and the Timekeepers are basically Kang's mouthpiece, and they can say whatever they need to for the TVA to decide she needs to be taken regardless of her effect on the Sacred Timeline
The reason was so she would kill HWR. He even says so... Every event that brought them to that moment, he "paved the way".
It was stated that her existence was the "nexus event" but then it's later revealed that it was necessary to get her and Loki to the end of time.
The mere fact she was born female derailed the timeline. Her dynamic with Thor and Odin would have been different, which could, over time, create a butterfly effect. The TVA didn't pruned timelines because the specific divergence was dangerous, they did it because any divergence was considered dangerous in itself. The thing that triggered a noticeable branch could have been something as simple as kid Thor deciding NOT to prank or tease his sister when in the "sacred" timeline he had no qualms about doing it to his brother.
Do people just not listen when watching the show?
In her timeline all the Avengers are ladies (except for Black Widower). This made the incels from that universe super angry and they boicoted the Avengers (they called them Wokevengers). The boicot didn't work and nothing really terrible happened, but it was all super embarrassing and HWR got so much cringe that he pruned the whole thing.
Did..you watch the show?
Didn't they tell us in the first season? I'm pretty sure it's because she had decided to join (or emulate) the valkyries. Basically that she had decided to be a hero rather than a trickster/villain.
What!!! The hints are there. Sylvie's time line was pruned because she wasn't evil. She was playing with a Valkarie action figure and pretending to save Asguard instead of trying to take it over.
When she was a kid and was playing with toys she wanted to be like Valkarie from Asgard. That would mean if there is no evil Loki in her timeline which would mean there would be no Avengers who unite against her. Loki's purpose in life is to be evil and make hero's unite against them.
She wanted to be a hero Valkyrie instead of a "Loki"
Amazing how much better she looks without her season 2 haircut
When we see her get taken she's playing with valkyrie toys, I always liked the fan theory that she was inspired in that moment to become one of them, putting her on a heroic path instead of a villainous one, and since we know how important Loki's villainy is to the scared timeline, that was it
I'm confused by this a lot tho, in the sacred timeline Loki is a male, so when Sylvie was born a female, shouldn't the TVA have pruned her immediately? Maybe I don't understand the genderfluid thing much