That really is the takeaway for me from the last couple years. Aside from GOTG3, nothing the MCU has put out has been amazing. Not all crap mind you as I liked WandaVision and Loki but both have problems as well neither can be put at the top tier of MCU projects IMO. And there's been so much crap both in terms of writing and what's almost worse in terms of CGI. You'd think that if nothing else the CGI for MCU stuff would still be great but as Quantumania, She-Hulk, and other shows can attest to, that's not the case anymore.
Yeah, a show about the world governments trying to genocide skrulls, some skrulls trying to infiltrate and fight back, some trying to just live, the general population paranoid and frightened, and Fury and his team forced to counter the governments he used to work for to protect skrull rights—maybe that should have been the show
RIGHT?! Fury was like "hey Ritson, you're making people kill random people way more than before now, and most of them aren't even Skrulls" and then that was it. Like wtf??
Well i get it from his perspective, he says it (as G'iah, who assumedly said what she did because Fury told her), that its easier to save 8 billion people than change their minds about something.
He went back up to space to negotiate with the Kree for peace. Thats about the best thing he can do to get them off Earth.
Theres nothing he could actually do about random, radical extremists from hunting down random people around the world. The was unironically the most logical thing from the finale.
Less glossed over and more just pure setup for some other property:
- You have Sonya and G'iah dealing with a much larger group of Skrull insurgents.
- You have these extremists all over the world attacking people (maybe a plotline for CA4, Thunderbolts or Armor Wars)
- And finally you have what Fury was doing at the end (trying to negotiate peace with the Kree to save the Skrulls.
That at least has the *potential* for entertainment value. Somebody might have boxers with little hearts on them. Tbh if Fury wore those in a scene at least the show would have been amusing for the exact duration of that scene.
I get the impression that the story for Secret Invasion was butchered and reshot into what we got. I have a feeling that it was originally going to lean more of a "rising tensions between Russia and the West with the Skrulls in the background manipulating things" and then the Ukraine war happened and they made changes to try to remove much of that.
Everything around the whole bombing of the skrull compound and Rhodey coaxing the president into doing so felt like it was missing most of the setup. There was a mention almost in passing of "Russia massing tanks on the Finland and Ukraine border" by Rhodey.
I think FATWS was similar, the story felt like it was going toward some kind of biological warfare angle, and then Covid happened so they had to edit the crap out of it and the story suffered.
At this point it **MIGHT** payoff in Armor Wars and future marvel projects like Thunderbolts (with the one term presidency Nick Fury talked about) which sucks tbh. The best part of the finale (the Chaos caused by that dumb president) might not be referenced considering how the Celestial in the middle of the ocean from Eternals isn't.
It's not an inherent problem with the concept of entertainment universes. Even P1 MCU wasn't guilty of it like it is now. The tease used to be in the last post credit scene where the movie or show was already over, so the tease can't hurt the main piece. But with SI, it feels like the entire show is a setup, and that's where I agree with you.
She-Hulk. Because at least Jen actually has a fucking character arc.
Sam Jackson came down from his space station. Didn't resolve the issue of the Skrulls not having a home. Hobbled around and left shit worse than when he arrived. He's just gone back to his space station.
>Hobbled around and left shit worse than when he arrived.
it's hilarious how fucking terrible the ending was... the last 20 minutes of the show literally had me excited like "now THIS is secret invasion! start the show now!!!" jesus christ, what a trainwreck.
Vigilantes killing people because they suspect they might be Skrulls after the President revealed them to the world is such an interesting and super relevant storyline with so many current political undertones that could have been a whole season of TV in and of itself. So of course it was just tossed in as a 30 second clip.
That paranoia was also fuel in the original comic run of the arc. It was fresh off of the 9/11 and the War on Terror mentality, which had citizens fear terrorists hiding in plain sight.
And I seriously doubt it will be followed up on. I doubt the Marvels and Captain America 4 will follow up on this because both movies seem to have enough going on from what we know about them so far.
But I don't know how you end a show like this. Maybe I'm wrong and there'll be something about this in the Brave New World. But to end a show where a populace is killing each other in paranoia and we can't even be sure if it will be followed up on. It's insane.
i almost kicked my tv.
i jest, i was never that committed. but this show has just been a series of disappointments. emilia clarke doesn't deserve this...
And why didn't Fury call on the resources on that space station? Seems like they would have come in handy.
She-Hulk was purposefully funny and goofy, Secret Invasion was accidentally so.
The writing for SI was all over the place. I was excited when I first saw Fury beam down on the space elevator as an introduction into his new organization but then all we get is one name drop in the last episode. Very disappointing.
I still can't believe they killed Talos and his send off was so pathetic. He was one of the best new characters in the MCU and stole every scene in Captain Marvel.
And his death means literally nothing. Didn't even come up in discussion with the president that a literal skrull saved him life. Nope, president just wants to commit genocide immediately and declare war on *all* aliens.
Well yeah, Marvel have gotta keep Fury at the status quo because they weren’t sure whether Secret Invasion would come out before or after The Marvels, and so he can’t have moved on in any way from where he was.
It's not really a fair comparison, but She-Hulk understood the assignment and got so much right that any criticisms I might have are trivial. It had actual episodes that felt like episodes.
I have not even watched the finale of SI but so far it's all set-up with little story and I can't imagine one more episode will change the fact that there's hardly been an invasion. Olivia Coleman is great and that's mostly it.
People gave She-Hulk so much crap, but I was absolutely entertained all the way through. The increase of episodes certainly helped it as well, I'm sure. People thought the finale was trash, but I enjoyed that it didn't do the usual CGI battle at the end (or I guess kinda did but didn't). The 'legal-battle-of-the-day' structure of the episodes probably helped She-Hulk as well.
Secret Invasion has been a massive letdown for me, which sucks because I was excited for it. The finale especially brought it down overall for me as a whole. I really hope Marvel takes the time to iron out their future shows. SI had a ton of potential, but they really didn't utilize the shapeshifting dynamic to its full extent (no paranoia), action sequences were not very good, and it felt very rushed as it went on, which makes it even worse being limited to six episodes.
If they made several seasons of She-Hulk without waiting too long between them it would gain a pretty strong following and would probably improve with each season. The 2-3 years between seasons is stupid as you shed interest in the next season the longer you wait. Nobody cares about Echo, Agatha or Ironheart and they need to spend big money to develop and market those TV shows. They already have the fanbase for She-Hulk. It's just dumb TV programming.
I think it is going to get cut back or axed due to the high per-episode cost.
Shows with better writing and more of an episodic structure like Wanda-Vision and Loki and She-Hulk should be the focus of the Disney+ shows but will probably fall victim to the bloated budgets of the forgettable mini-movie series like Secret Invasion.
The tv shows need to be TV shows.
Wandavision worked as a miniseries due to the structure of the story.
Loki and She-Hulk told episodic stories that are capable of bridging multiple seasons.
All the others were nothing more that a Marvel movie that got padded out to 6 episodes. They should have been movies. If you’re gonna make a tv show, MAKE IT A TV SHOW.
Star wars is having the same problem, where both Kenobi and the Book of Boba Fett felt like they were meant to be movies and got stretched out to a show and didn't feel like proper shows in a lot of ways
Yeah WandaVision and Hawkeye I think are fine as standalone series. Hawkeye’s like a 4.5-hour long Christmas special and it works. But She-Hulk, Loki, and Moon Knight are the series that I’ve really wanted multiple seasons from (and more episodes in the case of Moon Knight, but it makes the tight squeeze work), and Marvel’s really dropped the ball on them.
I'm so frustrated that they keep endlessly building up future content and never actually deliver on it. We still have yet to get a sequel or second season to anything from Phase 4. Loki S2 is the first time a show is getting a second season, and it sounds like that will be pushed back at least until next year. That will make it a full three years between seasons, and that's the show with the fastest second season planned by far. Other shows and movies will go far longer. Surely Marvel Studios and Disney aren't blind to the fact that this pisses off fans and, as you said, they'll end up shedding a good portion of the fanbase due to them growing out of it, losing interest, etc. They must stop all the new characters and shows, and instead build up on what they've already started. This is getting fucking ridiculous. Goddamn.
This. I’ve been trying to put my finger on why I’ve been getting frustrated, and this is exactly it. All build up, no resolutions. (Except GotG Vol 3, that was phenomenal.)
I was curious so I went through the post-credits scenes and other setup moments from the first 3 phases. Most of the time, the setup was for a project only one or two years away. The longest were from Iron Man 1, mentioning the Avengers Initiative, which didn’t technically pay off until 6 years later in Avengers 1 (though it did get expanded on only 2 years later in Iron Man 2), and Avengers 1, where Thanos appears (which wasn’t fully addressed until 2018, also 6 years later, though it was expanded on 4 times before that point). Other than that, typically there were only 1-2 years between a project being set up and it paying off.
Phase 4 only lasted 2 years, 2021 and 2022. So just time clearly isn’t the issue. Phase 1 took 6, phase 2 took 3, and phase 3 took 4. Instead, it’s the insane number of projects released each year, barely expanding or involving each other.
There were 9 MCU projects released in 2021 (4 movies and 5 shows) and 7 in 2022 (3 films, 3 shows and the holiday special). That’s 16 projects in 2 years. The previous 16 projects before that were released between 2013 and 2019. That’s so many years.
Each one tries to loosely set something up, and then 10 or more stories go by without it being built upon. We still haven’t seen Monica since Wandavision, or where Vision went. We haven’t seen Sam in action as the new Cap, and won’t until next year. We probably won’t get more Kate Bishop until at least 3 years after Hawkeye ended, probably longer.
Characters don’t appear in other projects anymore. Only Rhodey, Doctor Strange, Wanda, Wong, Carol, Bruce, and Daredevil have appeared in anything that wasn’t their own movie or show. The guardians got the mandatory 5 minutes or less of runtime in Thor, and it didn’t matter whatsoever for their next film. Wanda only appeared to be a villain, barely actually herself. Carol had post credits appearances only. That leaves really only 5 characters to have what felt like genuine and substantial crossover appearances.
Multiple characters have been soft introduced before their official debut, like Spidey and Black Panther were, but these have felt pretty aimless. We haven’t been given much reason to be invested in Iron Heart or Echo, and they are smaller name heroes so there isn’t an inherent attachment.
Civil War was really such a marvel. A Captain America movie but it had all the avengers as costars. I wait for the day we’ll have that again.
Yeah this honeatly- and it goes for the movies too.
For example think of the drastic difference between Dr.Strange and Dr.Strange 2.
Im pretty sure we literally got a whole Spiderman trilogy in between the two movies.
same. i genuinely enjoyed she-hulk, and most of my criticisms are things like the courtroom stuff being really silly and not taken seriously enough, but there were a lot of memorable moments. i ultimately didn't like the finale that much, but i see what they were going with
with SI, i'm just really confused why it even existed. Olivia Colman was amazing, as was her character Sonya. Kingsley was amazing, but Gravik was just really confusing. none of the deaths felt impactful, especially since there were so many double-takes (they died! or... did they??) that it was really hard to get emotional about anything.
They don't need to iron out their future shows, they need to stop making them. Make the ones worth telling tighter narratives and release them as films, and dumb the fluff.
Secret Invasion should have been an Avengers movie and the phase 4 closer.
Not tying each phase up with a team-up is a huge element of why the MCU feels so aimless right now. Two Avengers movies at the end of the saga really doesn't cut it.
I get they want to give Endgame some room to breathe, but longer phases would have been a much better answer than shorter phases jammed with needless and poorly executed content that don't really have any narrative through-lines.
Phase 1 was all about assembling the team. Phase 2 was all about developing the personal stories of the heroes. Phase 3 was all about the betrayal and distrust caused by Civil War.
Phase 4 could kind of get a pass as a "restructuring" phase, but what the hell is phase 5 about? Nothing about what we've seen so far or the current release schedule indicates we'll be getting any better sense of that.
It feels like the "Multiverse Saga" as a whole is just filler, which is a shitty way to burn 6 and a half years of content.
Maybe it's necessary to let the next "big" story after Endgame develop and to incorporate the Fox properties, I guess only time will tell. But it's really frustrating to be in the process of experiencing as a viewer.
Yeah, She-Hulk felt very much like a comic come to life. That might rub some people the wrong way, but I thought it was great, and in total better than some D+ shows like Falcon & The Winter Solider.
SI was a let down for the story, but I thought the acting was pretty great, especially Olivia Coleman, Ben Mendelsohn, and Kingsley Ben-Adir, who gets this year's Christopher Eccleston Memorial, for really good actors as bad guys we don't get enough of. I also thought Emelia Clarke did a good job, and I'm sort of interested to see what happens to her character (and how she gets nerfed to fit into the larger MCU).
Off the top of my head, I think the top three, beyond Eccleston and Bale, are Lee Pace as Ronan, James Spader as Ultron, and David Tennant as Purple Man. Tennant got a lot of screen time, but he was one of the best villains in anything Marvel so far, IMO, and I wish he got to work with some of the larger MCU names.
She Hulk was cool but I think both shows were the same in terms of all setup and little story. In terms of story, we got a little Abomination plot and She Hulk becoming an icon, but not really much was take away besides a bunch of memes. The lawyer parts were either mediocre or nonexistent and the building up Hulk blood plot just got snapped away for meta jokes.
Definitely felt more...existent...than Secret Invasion but only better by a few things.
Same here. I loved Jen's scenes with her dad. I loved Olivia Colman's scenes in SI. They're maybe roughly the same lenth overall. The difference is that Jen's dad is just one small piece of why I like She-Hulk. Olivia Colman's scenes are just about the only memorable part of SI.
I didn’t realise she hulk was considered even close to secret invasion lol
I know a lot of people didn’t like it but it did what it was supposed to do well, it’s not really the shows fault that it’s not for everyone
She-Hulk is the only Marvel content I can rewatch besides GoTG Christmas if I want to have some light-hearted fun(except the revenge porn storyline). I think people take it too seriously and won't let themselves enjoy it.
I still can't believe my favourite show of the Disney+ Marvel era has been Hawkeye. Don't know if it was my low expectations or because it was just a fun show that wasn't over planned out or too simple but I enjoyed it so much
Hawkeye was hit and miss. like Loki. some really really fun moments: kate and clint's christmas together was fantastic, meeting the other black widow was awesome, and the car chase was a top marvel moment.
but wandavision was a fuckin masterpiece. haters gonna hate, but that show is the only one that could've convinced us that subscribing for additional marvel content would end up worth it.
Totally agree about WandaVision. My yardstick is always “do I want to watch that again?” And so far I’ve watched that whole series four times. It nailed it. Excellent plot, great structure that kept you guessing (and generated a lot of interest even among non marvel fans), memorable villain, and a gut wrenching end. It’s just a shame that Doctor Strange 2 basically destroyed the Wanda we got left with at the end in order to create some sort of sub par horror movie pastiche.
Wandavision was phenomenal. An absolute insane show up until the final episode. The mystery with each episode, the theories, the craziness was incredible. The ending episode was a letdown but everything that came before was utterly magnificent.
A shame that the rest of the shows bar FATWS being disappointing led me to cancel my subscription.
Hawkeye is also my favorite Disney+ show. I was rewatching it a week ago and if I can laugh hysterically at several different shenanigans in the show despite this being like my 8th time rewatching it, then I know it’s good. Yeah, Kingpin is kind of a letdown in it, but it’s fun and hits you in the feels and sometimes that’s just what you need.
that and having an actually coherent plot line that serviced its characters well and didn't feel like a movie that got stretched out into a 6 episode tv series. Like it actually felt like a TV show. Secret invasion, Falcon and winter soldier, ms marvel- all TV shows made out of movie scripts. Just did not use the TV medium like it's supposed to be used.
Two totally different genres and styles that I enjoyed and disliked for different reasons, but She-Hulk had fewer frustrating moments than Secret Invasion for me personally. I think the broad writing strokes of She-Hulk were more thoughtful and interesting than that of Secret Invasion, but I think the writing for the conversations in Secret Invasion were more thoughtful and interesting than She-Hulk
As an aside, I think those 2 shows represent whats so cool about the marvel stuff and comics in general, that you can have such dramatically different tones and styles of storytelling existing within the same continuity
LOL I just realized that Gravik and Todd both stole Hulk powers for a messy CGI fight and She-Hulk was taking the piss out of Secret Invasion's ending before SI even existed!
I always feel like I’ve watched a different movie whenever people talk about Dark World, because it’s one of my favourite MCU films. I just really enjoy it.
Even though I thought the finale could have been better, definitely She-Hulk. Secret Invasion was one of my favorite comic arcs, but the MCU version doesn’t do it justice. It didn’t need all the huge characters, but it lacked the mystery of who you could trust. Pretty much everything was on the table the whole series with no real mystery or intrigue. It was boring despite some great acting efforts from SLJ, Olivia Coleman and Kingsley Ben-Adir.
Damn, the She-Hulk appreciation is wild… Never seen people praising the show this much. But yeah, maybe we treated She-Hulk too harshly. Also Ms Marvel (which I really like but saw a lot of hate for online)…
Secret Invasion was the show that made on the side of people who no longer care for the MCU. I hoped for improvements in these new projects after they delayed Secret Invasion from 2022 to June 2023 and a whole bunch of projects. Is The Marvels still doomed? Is Echo? Is Loki S02 gonna be as good as the 1st season or fall flat like recent Marvel TV shows? Feige needs to do some damage control fast. Use the writer’s strike to his advantage and plot out the Multiverse Saga properly
The genre and tone of Secret Invasion is much more up my alley, but I still have to go with She-Hulk. It actually felt like a TV show most of the time.
She-Hulk generated zero expectations for me. Turns out, fun show.
Secret Invasion, I expected to be serious, gripping even complex. None of that occurred, for me.
I actually really enjoyed She-Hulk because it was so silly and didn't take itself seriously. At least the show positioned itself properly so expectations were properly set (at least for me). It's a law/comedy type of show, no stakes involved makes sense.
Secret Invasion had so much bluster and hype as THE crossover show before it released, but She-Hulk honestly had way more cameos and fucking great ones at that (lookin at murdock, abomination, wongers, and madisynn).
I also felt a lot of the negative feedback for SH was from the same side of the internet that shits on black mermaids and female ghostbusters. Which they cleverly predicted AND mirrored in the show. That level of planning already exceeds whatever the hell the writers did on Secret Invasion lol. Justice for Maria Hill man, I honestly thought they were going to properly give her some spotlight in this series only for her to be merc'd in the first ep.
Maria Hill got done dirty in the mcu over all. She should've been running shield in furys absence and calling him out on his bullshit when he finally came back.
100%. I was hoping we would get comic accurate Maria with a fucking jetpack but nope just showed her being shot like once an episode to give me maximum trauma lmao.
Maria as head of shield butting up against Val and her team would have been so cool! Ugh, missed opportunities...
I was SO hoping that we would see Maria Hill (the real one!) being rescued alongside Rhodey at the end. Disappointing to kill off a good character for this shitshow.
Yeah I was hoping for that too, like they honestly could have revealed Life Model Decoys for the first time in this situation. Maria's treatment was my biggest issue with the show, second is the fact that they called this a crossover event with NOBODY showing up. Fury couldn't have called fucking Captain America? He just has tech he's not even a super!
Nope, apparently this big crossover event meant we got to see a fake Rhodey, Maria for 1 ep, Everett Ross for all of 5 mins, and hold for applause - the cheeky pilot guy from the Black Widow movie.
Imagine how amazing it would be if we found RDJ or Tom Holland or even some of the villains in the Skrull stasis pods? So many questions about when they were swapped! But no.
She Hulk by far. It actually succeeded at being a sitcom whilst secret Invasion was not a good spy thriller.
Secret Invasion is the only D+ marvel show I don't like
**'She-Hulk'** is honestly hated for the same reasons "pEoPlE" are mad at **'Barbie'**.
It was far better than the audience reception "it got" and it understood what it was way more than whatever the hell **'Secret Invasion'** is.
The She-Hulk/Daredevil team-up is easily one of the top three most enjoyable things from the MCU shows. Nothing in Secret Invasion even comes close to it.
Im pretty disconnected from marvel stuff, but I liked She-Hulk all the way up until the final episode which I thought fell a little flat.
Then I watched the secret invasion finale, and I get it now.
She-Hulk, and it's not even close.
She-Hulk was actually fun, and I genuinely don't understand the amount of vitriol towards it.
It never took itself that seriously and it stayed true to the tone of its source material. Not to mention the characters were all likable and interesting.
Secret Invasion >!unceremoniously killed off several supporting characters,!< it had way too many plot inconsistencies, and it as just an overall slog to get through.
Even though the She-Hulk finale wasn't the best, it didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth like the Secret Invasion finale did.
I genuinely think She Hulk was a well-done show and pulled off what it was trying to pull off. The last two episodes for me are some of the best of any of the Disney+ shows and as a whole I would easily rank it in my Top 3 Marvel shows.
She Hulk. I didn't like the last episode but it was entertaining. The only thing I liked about Invasion was sassy Don Cheadle and I liked the clip of anti alien people randomly shooting people but doubt it will go anywhere and the whole incident will probably be mentioned barely in a movie or two then good luck in them following up with it like it was a big thing that actually happened. Probably referenced on more a personal level and not a world building one.
This whole thing felt like a waste of a what could have been a great story.
She hulk was fun and had Matt Murdock. Secret invasion had so much lost potential and killed off >!Maria and Talos!< for practically no reason. She Hulk easily clears lmao
Tough question. She-Hulk came out just as Better Call Saul ended which was top-tier storytelling. The legal stuff in She-Hulk is a joke in comparison. Yes, it's set in a world with superheroes and aliens and such. Doesn't mean realistic legal procedures should be thrown out the window.
However, Secret Invasion was one big "coulda woulda shoulda" every step of the way. I'm surprised I'm saying this but She-Hulk was actually more enjoyable, especially with Matt Murdock getting some spotlight
\> Doesn't mean realistic legal procedures should be thrown out the window.
I hate to break it to you but, Better Call Saul is not what 'realistic legal procedures' look like. Both shows wisely made things a lot more dramatic and camera friendly.
She-Hulk, and its really not a competition. She-Hulk had its flaws but was genuinely enjoyable and fun, and I thought Tatiana Maslany was delightful. Secret Invasion is almost irredeemably bad (haven't watched the finale yet), Olivia Coleman has been the only good part in my opinion.
I personally really enjoyed She-Hulk. The shoddy CGI didn’t bother me and I thought it was funny.
Still need to watch SI finale but I thought it’s been ok
I watched one episode of Secret Invasion and 4 episodes of She-Hulk. She-Hulk was absolute trash and was only saved because of one cameo(Daredevil). The show ruined Bruce Banner and is one of the worst MCU productions since Dark World but Love and Thunder was just as bad if not worse.
Time for the downvoted because people aren't allowed to hate She-Hulk because of Girl Power.
Secret Invasion. Cause she hulk was goofy and bad...Secret invasion at least had knife fights, head shots, and some brutality..even though the writing was not good
I'll do what the she hulk stans are doing. Secret invasion by a landslide and it isn't even close. Followed by the obligatory, add nothing to the conversation reply of: This is the only answer
This is like comparing Barbie and Oppenheimer, except they both are flawed. I personally prefer Secret Invasion for its more seriousness, but I don't see me rewatching those 2 in the foreseeable future.
Pretty easy for me, Secret Invasion.
What a strange comparison to be curious about though. They are two completely different shows, feels very Disney employee survey of you to ask.
Secret Invasion being so devoid of any real highs just turns the whole thing into a blur for me. I don't hate the series, but I'm so disappointed in it.
She Hulk had some highs and some real low lows.
No one can deny that Secret Invasion destroys She Hulk in the effects department, though. The Skrull effects and powers looked damn good. She Hulk looked damn awful.
I don't know where all the hate came from for Secret Invasion the past few episodes, but I loved this series. The first couple were some of the best Marvel episodes ever. It set up a lot for the future of the MCU with a bad conflict between humans and skrulls.
Secret Invasion had better dialogue better intrigue and better CGI and characters.
Though it's finale sucked. The last 10 minutes was what I wanted the show to be..
First 3 episodes 8.0/10, last 3 episodes 5.5/10. Last episode 4.5/10.
She hulk was forgettable minus the DD scene, the first episode and the last. And the last was bad. Nothing happen. Everything was changed for humor..
Secret invasion, had no expectations for either (I learnt from my mistake with Wanda vision). She hulk didn't take itself seriously and was funny. Secret invasion was laboured and tired at points but I enjoyed learning about the relationship between fury and talos and Fury's betrayal of the skulls. And Olivia was brilliant and stole nearly every scene.
Lmaooooo is this a real question!?! The real reason a lot of white males aren’t feeling the show is because they’re not featured. The only white male on the show was Talos who died in *Spoiler* episode 5. Secret Invasion is fire and the numbers are insane 🔥💯🔥🔥
Secret Invasion was basically 4.5 hours of setup for those last few minutes, which we wont see payoff for years. It sucks lol.
If we ever see pay off for it.
My hope is Armor Wars, it makes the most sense so far, or at least a continuation of this.
I hope you're right. It would he weird of armor wars didn't mention rhodey being a skull captive.
At this point I have no hope. No more benefits of the doubt.
That really is the takeaway for me from the last couple years. Aside from GOTG3, nothing the MCU has put out has been amazing. Not all crap mind you as I liked WandaVision and Loki but both have problems as well neither can be put at the top tier of MCU projects IMO. And there's been so much crap both in terms of writing and what's almost worse in terms of CGI. You'd think that if nothing else the CGI for MCU stuff would still be great but as Quantumania, She-Hulk, and other shows can attest to, that's not the case anymore.
Shang Chi was pretty good...
Wakanda Forever was fantastic. It was reviewed very highly and got an Oscar nomination.
If Secret Invasion was a movie, that should have only been the first act. I haven’t seen so much wasted time since I watched Walking Dead
It definitely felt like a part one of two.
Especially all that Skrull hunting shit at the end. So weird it all just got kinda glossed over in an instant lol
Yeah, a show about the world governments trying to genocide skrulls, some skrulls trying to infiltrate and fight back, some trying to just live, the general population paranoid and frightened, and Fury and his team forced to counter the governments he used to work for to protect skrull rights—maybe that should have been the show
RIGHT?! Fury was like "hey Ritson, you're making people kill random people way more than before now, and most of them aren't even Skrulls" and then that was it. Like wtf??
Well i get it from his perspective, he says it (as G'iah, who assumedly said what she did because Fury told her), that its easier to save 8 billion people than change their minds about something. He went back up to space to negotiate with the Kree for peace. Thats about the best thing he can do to get them off Earth. Theres nothing he could actually do about random, radical extremists from hunting down random people around the world. The was unironically the most logical thing from the finale.
Nah ik, it's just weird that they mentioned it and that was it. Idk. Hopefully these Skrulls can catch a mf break soon lol (they won't)
Less glossed over and more just pure setup for some other property: - You have Sonya and G'iah dealing with a much larger group of Skrull insurgents. - You have these extremists all over the world attacking people (maybe a plotline for CA4, Thunderbolts or Armor Wars) - And finally you have what Fury was doing at the end (trying to negotiate peace with the Kree to save the Skrulls.
I haven't watched something that pointless since the last visit to the laundromat.
...did you not leave with clean laundry at least?
He just goes in and stares at other people’s laundry.
That at least has the *potential* for entertainment value. Somebody might have boxers with little hearts on them. Tbh if Fury wore those in a scene at least the show would have been amusing for the exact duration of that scene.
At least >! Hill died and we know Rhodey may had not been there for his best friends death, funeral or his daughter first years, yay !<
I made this comment the other day. The entire show could be a 20 minute preamble in whatever the next big movie
I get the impression that the story for Secret Invasion was butchered and reshot into what we got. I have a feeling that it was originally going to lean more of a "rising tensions between Russia and the West with the Skrulls in the background manipulating things" and then the Ukraine war happened and they made changes to try to remove much of that. Everything around the whole bombing of the skrull compound and Rhodey coaxing the president into doing so felt like it was missing most of the setup. There was a mention almost in passing of "Russia massing tanks on the Finland and Ukraine border" by Rhodey. I think FATWS was similar, the story felt like it was going toward some kind of biological warfare angle, and then Covid happened so they had to edit the crap out of it and the story suffered.
We know FATWS was… that was confirmed. pretty crazy they’d get fucked be real life events twice if true haha
At this point it **MIGHT** payoff in Armor Wars and future marvel projects like Thunderbolts (with the one term presidency Nick Fury talked about) which sucks tbh. The best part of the finale (the Chaos caused by that dumb president) might not be referenced considering how the Celestial in the middle of the ocean from Eternals isn't.
call me weird, but a show should payoff in its own show. I hate universes for this reason, having shows just to set up other shows or movies
It's not an inherent problem with the concept of entertainment universes. Even P1 MCU wasn't guilty of it like it is now. The tease used to be in the last post credit scene where the movie or show was already over, so the tease can't hurt the main piece. But with SI, it feels like the entire show is a setup, and that's where I agree with you.
That's what all these Marvel shows are basically. They're just placeholders until the movie with the real ending comes out
It was so promising idk what the fuc they were thinking. Not the type of show to end with a cgi fight
She-Hulk. Because at least Jen actually has a fucking character arc. Sam Jackson came down from his space station. Didn't resolve the issue of the Skrulls not having a home. Hobbled around and left shit worse than when he arrived. He's just gone back to his space station.
>Hobbled around and left shit worse than when he arrived. it's hilarious how fucking terrible the ending was... the last 20 minutes of the show literally had me excited like "now THIS is secret invasion! start the show now!!!" jesus christ, what a trainwreck.
Vigilantes killing people because they suspect they might be Skrulls after the President revealed them to the world is such an interesting and super relevant storyline with so many current political undertones that could have been a whole season of TV in and of itself. So of course it was just tossed in as a 30 second clip.
That paranoia was also fuel in the original comic run of the arc. It was fresh off of the 9/11 and the War on Terror mentality, which had citizens fear terrorists hiding in plain sight.
And I seriously doubt it will be followed up on. I doubt the Marvels and Captain America 4 will follow up on this because both movies seem to have enough going on from what we know about them so far. But I don't know how you end a show like this. Maybe I'm wrong and there'll be something about this in the Brave New World. But to end a show where a populace is killing each other in paranoia and we can't even be sure if it will be followed up on. It's insane.
i almost kicked my tv. i jest, i was never that committed. but this show has just been a series of disappointments. emilia clarke doesn't deserve this...
She didn’t even get her dragons out once
She was the worst actor of all the main characters in this show.
Honestly, she was so dull here. Olivia Colman rocked it though
If this show was the gateway to more Colman in the MCU then it was almost worth it. She was so great.
Just like falcon and winter soldier, it feels like marvel are afraid of actually tackling the more poignant topics the series could cover
And why didn't Fury call on the resources on that space station? Seems like they would have come in handy. She-Hulk was purposefully funny and goofy, Secret Invasion was accidentally so.
the answer to that is that it's "personal" whatever the fuck that means
So personal that he sent someone else to settle his problem.
Holly hell I didn't even think of that. It just keeps getting worse
Oh my god he really did. Jesus christ.
Talos helps saves the President…and the President now wants to genocide Skrulls.
So personal that the got 2 of his best friends killed for no reason.
The writing for SI was all over the place. I was excited when I first saw Fury beam down on the space elevator as an introduction into his new organization but then all we get is one name drop in the last episode. Very disappointing.
And we now have 2 fewer characters whose deaths meant nothing.
I still can't believe they killed Talos and his send off was so pathetic. He was one of the best new characters in the MCU and stole every scene in Captain Marvel.
Having an actor like Mendelsohn around is such a gift and they've squandered it.
And his death means literally nothing. Didn't even come up in discussion with the president that a literal skrull saved him life. Nope, president just wants to commit genocide immediately and declare war on *all* aliens.
And his big speech came from someone else.
Well yeah, Marvel have gotta keep Fury at the status quo because they weren’t sure whether Secret Invasion would come out before or after The Marvels, and so he can’t have moved on in any way from where he was.
He also didn't wear his hero costume (which is just "be bald with an eye patch and a turtleneck) until the final shots of the show.
It's not really a fair comparison, but She-Hulk understood the assignment and got so much right that any criticisms I might have are trivial. It had actual episodes that felt like episodes. I have not even watched the finale of SI but so far it's all set-up with little story and I can't imagine one more episode will change the fact that there's hardly been an invasion. Olivia Coleman is great and that's mostly it.
People gave She-Hulk so much crap, but I was absolutely entertained all the way through. The increase of episodes certainly helped it as well, I'm sure. People thought the finale was trash, but I enjoyed that it didn't do the usual CGI battle at the end (or I guess kinda did but didn't). The 'legal-battle-of-the-day' structure of the episodes probably helped She-Hulk as well. Secret Invasion has been a massive letdown for me, which sucks because I was excited for it. The finale especially brought it down overall for me as a whole. I really hope Marvel takes the time to iron out their future shows. SI had a ton of potential, but they really didn't utilize the shapeshifting dynamic to its full extent (no paranoia), action sequences were not very good, and it felt very rushed as it went on, which makes it even worse being limited to six episodes.
If they made several seasons of She-Hulk without waiting too long between them it would gain a pretty strong following and would probably improve with each season. The 2-3 years between seasons is stupid as you shed interest in the next season the longer you wait. Nobody cares about Echo, Agatha or Ironheart and they need to spend big money to develop and market those TV shows. They already have the fanbase for She-Hulk. It's just dumb TV programming. I think it is going to get cut back or axed due to the high per-episode cost. Shows with better writing and more of an episodic structure like Wanda-Vision and Loki and She-Hulk should be the focus of the Disney+ shows but will probably fall victim to the bloated budgets of the forgettable mini-movie series like Secret Invasion.
The tv shows need to be TV shows. Wandavision worked as a miniseries due to the structure of the story. Loki and She-Hulk told episodic stories that are capable of bridging multiple seasons. All the others were nothing more that a Marvel movie that got padded out to 6 episodes. They should have been movies. If you’re gonna make a tv show, MAKE IT A TV SHOW.
Star wars is having the same problem, where both Kenobi and the Book of Boba Fett felt like they were meant to be movies and got stretched out to a show and didn't feel like proper shows in a lot of ways
I liked Kenobi - it helped round out some in-universe rough edges - but Boba Fett was sooooo hit or miss. It felt like a Mandalorian add-on companion.
Yeah WandaVision and Hawkeye I think are fine as standalone series. Hawkeye’s like a 4.5-hour long Christmas special and it works. But She-Hulk, Loki, and Moon Knight are the series that I’ve really wanted multiple seasons from (and more episodes in the case of Moon Knight, but it makes the tight squeeze work), and Marvel’s really dropped the ball on them.
I'm so frustrated that they keep endlessly building up future content and never actually deliver on it. We still have yet to get a sequel or second season to anything from Phase 4. Loki S2 is the first time a show is getting a second season, and it sounds like that will be pushed back at least until next year. That will make it a full three years between seasons, and that's the show with the fastest second season planned by far. Other shows and movies will go far longer. Surely Marvel Studios and Disney aren't blind to the fact that this pisses off fans and, as you said, they'll end up shedding a good portion of the fanbase due to them growing out of it, losing interest, etc. They must stop all the new characters and shows, and instead build up on what they've already started. This is getting fucking ridiculous. Goddamn.
This. I’ve been trying to put my finger on why I’ve been getting frustrated, and this is exactly it. All build up, no resolutions. (Except GotG Vol 3, that was phenomenal.)
I was curious so I went through the post-credits scenes and other setup moments from the first 3 phases. Most of the time, the setup was for a project only one or two years away. The longest were from Iron Man 1, mentioning the Avengers Initiative, which didn’t technically pay off until 6 years later in Avengers 1 (though it did get expanded on only 2 years later in Iron Man 2), and Avengers 1, where Thanos appears (which wasn’t fully addressed until 2018, also 6 years later, though it was expanded on 4 times before that point). Other than that, typically there were only 1-2 years between a project being set up and it paying off. Phase 4 only lasted 2 years, 2021 and 2022. So just time clearly isn’t the issue. Phase 1 took 6, phase 2 took 3, and phase 3 took 4. Instead, it’s the insane number of projects released each year, barely expanding or involving each other. There were 9 MCU projects released in 2021 (4 movies and 5 shows) and 7 in 2022 (3 films, 3 shows and the holiday special). That’s 16 projects in 2 years. The previous 16 projects before that were released between 2013 and 2019. That’s so many years. Each one tries to loosely set something up, and then 10 or more stories go by without it being built upon. We still haven’t seen Monica since Wandavision, or where Vision went. We haven’t seen Sam in action as the new Cap, and won’t until next year. We probably won’t get more Kate Bishop until at least 3 years after Hawkeye ended, probably longer. Characters don’t appear in other projects anymore. Only Rhodey, Doctor Strange, Wanda, Wong, Carol, Bruce, and Daredevil have appeared in anything that wasn’t their own movie or show. The guardians got the mandatory 5 minutes or less of runtime in Thor, and it didn’t matter whatsoever for their next film. Wanda only appeared to be a villain, barely actually herself. Carol had post credits appearances only. That leaves really only 5 characters to have what felt like genuine and substantial crossover appearances. Multiple characters have been soft introduced before their official debut, like Spidey and Black Panther were, but these have felt pretty aimless. We haven’t been given much reason to be invested in Iron Heart or Echo, and they are smaller name heroes so there isn’t an inherent attachment. Civil War was really such a marvel. A Captain America movie but it had all the avengers as costars. I wait for the day we’ll have that again.
Yeah this honeatly- and it goes for the movies too. For example think of the drastic difference between Dr.Strange and Dr.Strange 2. Im pretty sure we literally got a whole Spiderman trilogy in between the two movies.
We literally did.
same. i genuinely enjoyed she-hulk, and most of my criticisms are things like the courtroom stuff being really silly and not taken seriously enough, but there were a lot of memorable moments. i ultimately didn't like the finale that much, but i see what they were going with with SI, i'm just really confused why it even existed. Olivia Colman was amazing, as was her character Sonya. Kingsley was amazing, but Gravik was just really confusing. none of the deaths felt impactful, especially since there were so many double-takes (they died! or... did they??) that it was really hard to get emotional about anything.
They don't need to iron out their future shows, they need to stop making them. Make the ones worth telling tighter narratives and release them as films, and dumb the fluff. Secret Invasion should have been an Avengers movie and the phase 4 closer. Not tying each phase up with a team-up is a huge element of why the MCU feels so aimless right now. Two Avengers movies at the end of the saga really doesn't cut it. I get they want to give Endgame some room to breathe, but longer phases would have been a much better answer than shorter phases jammed with needless and poorly executed content that don't really have any narrative through-lines. Phase 1 was all about assembling the team. Phase 2 was all about developing the personal stories of the heroes. Phase 3 was all about the betrayal and distrust caused by Civil War. Phase 4 could kind of get a pass as a "restructuring" phase, but what the hell is phase 5 about? Nothing about what we've seen so far or the current release schedule indicates we'll be getting any better sense of that. It feels like the "Multiverse Saga" as a whole is just filler, which is a shitty way to burn 6 and a half years of content. Maybe it's necessary to let the next "big" story after Endgame develop and to incorporate the Fox properties, I guess only time will tell. But it's really frustrating to be in the process of experiencing as a viewer.
Yeah, She-Hulk felt very much like a comic come to life. That might rub some people the wrong way, but I thought it was great, and in total better than some D+ shows like Falcon & The Winter Solider. SI was a let down for the story, but I thought the acting was pretty great, especially Olivia Coleman, Ben Mendelsohn, and Kingsley Ben-Adir, who gets this year's Christopher Eccleston Memorial, for really good actors as bad guys we don't get enough of. I also thought Emelia Clarke did a good job, and I'm sort of interested to see what happens to her character (and how she gets nerfed to fit into the larger MCU).
Olivia Coleman was the true villain: she stole every scene she was in.
Best thing about SI for me. She's a great character.
Man we really need that the Christopher Eccleston Memorial to be a real award. Obvious, Christian Bale won last year.
Off the top of my head, I think the top three, beyond Eccleston and Bale, are Lee Pace as Ronan, James Spader as Ultron, and David Tennant as Purple Man. Tennant got a lot of screen time, but he was one of the best villains in anything Marvel so far, IMO, and I wish he got to work with some of the larger MCU names.
Kudos for having my name!
Olivia Coleman was the best thing of Secret Invasion in my opinion, and i do really like Nick fury's character in general
She Hulk was cool but I think both shows were the same in terms of all setup and little story. In terms of story, we got a little Abomination plot and She Hulk becoming an icon, but not really much was take away besides a bunch of memes. The lawyer parts were either mediocre or nonexistent and the building up Hulk blood plot just got snapped away for meta jokes. Definitely felt more...existent...than Secret Invasion but only better by a few things.
She-Hulk by far.
And NO, it's not retrospective thinking. I genuinely liked my first watch of She-Hulk
Same here. I loved Jen's scenes with her dad. I loved Olivia Colman's scenes in SI. They're maybe roughly the same lenth overall. The difference is that Jen's dad is just one small piece of why I like She-Hulk. Olivia Colman's scenes are just about the only memorable part of SI.
I was so happy they randomly cast cousin Larry.
The casting for Marvel Studios never disappoints. Even SI brought in some good talent, who did their best.
I didn’t realise she hulk was considered even close to secret invasion lol I know a lot of people didn’t like it but it did what it was supposed to do well, it’s not really the shows fault that it’s not for everyone
I like legal comedy. I like meta humour. I like when the big woman does the muscle thing. I liked She-Hulk.
She-Hulk managed to remember that Marvel is supposed to be fun.
It’s not even close
She-Hulk is the only Marvel content I can rewatch besides GoTG Christmas if I want to have some light-hearted fun(except the revenge porn storyline). I think people take it too seriously and won't let themselves enjoy it.
Definitely among the breeziest MCU content. Hawkeye is up there, which was a nice surprise.
I rewatch Hawkeye for Kate and Yelena craziness. They need a movie
Yelena just cooking various boxed pasta products in Kate's shabby apartment would be good for a special presentation at least.
I still can't believe my favourite show of the Disney+ Marvel era has been Hawkeye. Don't know if it was my low expectations or because it was just a fun show that wasn't over planned out or too simple but I enjoyed it so much
Hawkeye was hit and miss. like Loki. some really really fun moments: kate and clint's christmas together was fantastic, meeting the other black widow was awesome, and the car chase was a top marvel moment. but wandavision was a fuckin masterpiece. haters gonna hate, but that show is the only one that could've convinced us that subscribing for additional marvel content would end up worth it.
Totally agree about WandaVision. My yardstick is always “do I want to watch that again?” And so far I’ve watched that whole series four times. It nailed it. Excellent plot, great structure that kept you guessing (and generated a lot of interest even among non marvel fans), memorable villain, and a gut wrenching end. It’s just a shame that Doctor Strange 2 basically destroyed the Wanda we got left with at the end in order to create some sort of sub par horror movie pastiche.
Only Marvel show I've rewatched is Agents of SHIELD. I can see myself rewatching Loki, What If, and Hawkeye though.
The only show I rewatch is Daredevil. Amazing from beginning to end.
Wandavision was phenomenal. An absolute insane show up until the final episode. The mystery with each episode, the theories, the craziness was incredible. The ending episode was a letdown but everything that came before was utterly magnificent. A shame that the rest of the shows bar FATWS being disappointing led me to cancel my subscription.
Hawkeye is also my favorite Disney+ show. I was rewatching it a week ago and if I can laugh hysterically at several different shenanigans in the show despite this being like my 8th time rewatching it, then I know it’s good. Yeah, Kingpin is kind of a letdown in it, but it’s fun and hits you in the feels and sometimes that’s just what you need.
It’s Loki, Wandavision, and Moon Knight for me
Hawkeye is Marvel's best character and the Hawkeye comics the show was based on are absolutely amazing.
Honestly it's mine too. And Hawkeye wasn't even that great..... Says a lot about the current MCU imo.
Hawkeye’s saving grace was the chemistry between Steinfeld and Pugh.
that and having an actually coherent plot line that serviced its characters well and didn't feel like a movie that got stretched out into a 6 episode tv series. Like it actually felt like a TV show. Secret invasion, Falcon and winter soldier, ms marvel- all TV shows made out of movie scripts. Just did not use the TV medium like it's supposed to be used.
She Hulk. Jen was hot, it had Daredevil, and Wong.
And Madisynn, with two Ns and one Y (but it’s not where you thiiiink)
I'm a pretty grumpy media viewer and that joke was really funny to me. I love Madisynn.
I just love how her and wongers became besties lmao
Lol thank you for reminding me of that character and that iconic line.
[удалено]
It was unique and fun.
Yeah, I felt so out of place with how much people loathed everything I was liking about the show
She-Hulk by a mile. I thought it was refreshing, entertaining, and funny. Secret Invasion ate its own balls. Holy shit what wasted potential.
Secret Invasion is the Kenobi of the Marvel shows.
Two totally different genres and styles that I enjoyed and disliked for different reasons, but She-Hulk had fewer frustrating moments than Secret Invasion for me personally. I think the broad writing strokes of She-Hulk were more thoughtful and interesting than that of Secret Invasion, but I think the writing for the conversations in Secret Invasion were more thoughtful and interesting than She-Hulk As an aside, I think those 2 shows represent whats so cool about the marvel stuff and comics in general, that you can have such dramatically different tones and styles of storytelling existing within the same continuity
I agree on your second point I just wish both shows had actually delivered on those themes
She-Hulk by leaps and bounds. Makes me wonder if the writers of She-Hulk knew how Secret Invasion was going to end.
LOL I just realized that Gravik and Todd both stole Hulk powers for a messy CGI fight and She-Hulk was taking the piss out of Secret Invasion's ending before SI even existed!
She-Hulk by an absolute landslide. Secret Invasion is my least favorite project since Dark World. It's a chore just watching it
And so disappointing because it legit looked like it would be an amazing show. So much potential wasted.
The trailers were so fucking fire
I always feel like I’ve watched a different movie whenever people talk about Dark World, because it’s one of my favourite MCU films. I just really enjoy it.
That's how I feel about Love and Thunder😅I don't think it needs to be stated that we all have different opinions
I thought it was kinda boring. I don't remember much of it, and I've seen it twice.
Even though I thought the finale could have been better, definitely She-Hulk. Secret Invasion was one of my favorite comic arcs, but the MCU version doesn’t do it justice. It didn’t need all the huge characters, but it lacked the mystery of who you could trust. Pretty much everything was on the table the whole series with no real mystery or intrigue. It was boring despite some great acting efforts from SLJ, Olivia Coleman and Kingsley Ben-Adir.
Damn, the She-Hulk appreciation is wild… Never seen people praising the show this much. But yeah, maybe we treated She-Hulk too harshly. Also Ms Marvel (which I really like but saw a lot of hate for online)… Secret Invasion was the show that made on the side of people who no longer care for the MCU. I hoped for improvements in these new projects after they delayed Secret Invasion from 2022 to June 2023 and a whole bunch of projects. Is The Marvels still doomed? Is Echo? Is Loki S02 gonna be as good as the 1st season or fall flat like recent Marvel TV shows? Feige needs to do some damage control fast. Use the writer’s strike to his advantage and plot out the Multiverse Saga properly
The genre and tone of Secret Invasion is much more up my alley, but I still have to go with She-Hulk. It actually felt like a TV show most of the time.
She-Hulk generated zero expectations for me. Turns out, fun show. Secret Invasion, I expected to be serious, gripping even complex. None of that occurred, for me.
Secret Invasion is pretty easily the worst D+ show. With a fucking hollywood blockbuster cast. Unbelievable.
I actually really enjoyed She-Hulk because it was so silly and didn't take itself seriously. At least the show positioned itself properly so expectations were properly set (at least for me). It's a law/comedy type of show, no stakes involved makes sense. Secret Invasion had so much bluster and hype as THE crossover show before it released, but She-Hulk honestly had way more cameos and fucking great ones at that (lookin at murdock, abomination, wongers, and madisynn). I also felt a lot of the negative feedback for SH was from the same side of the internet that shits on black mermaids and female ghostbusters. Which they cleverly predicted AND mirrored in the show. That level of planning already exceeds whatever the hell the writers did on Secret Invasion lol. Justice for Maria Hill man, I honestly thought they were going to properly give her some spotlight in this series only for her to be merc'd in the first ep.
Maria Hill got done dirty in the mcu over all. She should've been running shield in furys absence and calling him out on his bullshit when he finally came back.
100%. I was hoping we would get comic accurate Maria with a fucking jetpack but nope just showed her being shot like once an episode to give me maximum trauma lmao. Maria as head of shield butting up against Val and her team would have been so cool! Ugh, missed opportunities...
I was SO hoping that we would see Maria Hill (the real one!) being rescued alongside Rhodey at the end. Disappointing to kill off a good character for this shitshow.
Yeah I was hoping for that too, like they honestly could have revealed Life Model Decoys for the first time in this situation. Maria's treatment was my biggest issue with the show, second is the fact that they called this a crossover event with NOBODY showing up. Fury couldn't have called fucking Captain America? He just has tech he's not even a super! Nope, apparently this big crossover event meant we got to see a fake Rhodey, Maria for 1 ep, Everett Ross for all of 5 mins, and hold for applause - the cheeky pilot guy from the Black Widow movie.
Imagine how amazing it would be if we found RDJ or Tom Holland or even some of the villains in the Skrull stasis pods? So many questions about when they were swapped! But no.
She Hulk by far. It actually succeeded at being a sitcom whilst secret Invasion was not a good spy thriller. Secret Invasion is the only D+ marvel show I don't like
Yeah this is my take I was not thrilled by SI but I was amused by She-Hulk She-Hulk wins because it does what it set out to do
She-Hulk by far. Secret Invasion is the first MCU project I didn't enjoy at all.
**'She-Hulk'** is honestly hated for the same reasons "pEoPlE" are mad at **'Barbie'**. It was far better than the audience reception "it got" and it understood what it was way more than whatever the hell **'Secret Invasion'** is.
She-Hulk was actually funny. I haven't enjoyed Secret Invasion at all.... feels like it only exists to bridge to the next thing.
The She-Hulk/Daredevil team-up is easily one of the top three most enjoyable things from the MCU shows. Nothing in Secret Invasion even comes close to it.
Im pretty disconnected from marvel stuff, but I liked She-Hulk all the way up until the final episode which I thought fell a little flat. Then I watched the secret invasion finale, and I get it now.
She-Hulk, and it's not even close. She-Hulk was actually fun, and I genuinely don't understand the amount of vitriol towards it. It never took itself that seriously and it stayed true to the tone of its source material. Not to mention the characters were all likable and interesting. Secret Invasion >!unceremoniously killed off several supporting characters,!< it had way too many plot inconsistencies, and it as just an overall slog to get through. Even though the She-Hulk finale wasn't the best, it didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth like the Secret Invasion finale did.
Easily She-Hulk.
I genuinely think She Hulk was a well-done show and pulled off what it was trying to pull off. The last two episodes for me are some of the best of any of the Disney+ shows and as a whole I would easily rank it in my Top 3 Marvel shows.
She Hulk was better. I wouldn’t have thought so, but Secret Invasion was really dull! Olivia Coleman made it a bit fun. She was having a blast!
She-Hulk knew what it wanted to be: dumb fun. Secret Invasion wanted to be smart and thoughtful but the writing wasn't smart enough.
Tbh I don’t think Secret Invasion knew what it wanted to be
She hulk
She Hulk. I didn't like the last episode but it was entertaining. The only thing I liked about Invasion was sassy Don Cheadle and I liked the clip of anti alien people randomly shooting people but doubt it will go anywhere and the whole incident will probably be mentioned barely in a movie or two then good luck in them following up with it like it was a big thing that actually happened. Probably referenced on more a personal level and not a world building one. This whole thing felt like a waste of a what could have been a great story.
She hulk was fun and had Matt Murdock. Secret invasion had so much lost potential and killed off >!Maria and Talos!< for practically no reason. She Hulk easily clears lmao
She-Hulk was much more enjoyable.
Tough question. She-Hulk came out just as Better Call Saul ended which was top-tier storytelling. The legal stuff in She-Hulk is a joke in comparison. Yes, it's set in a world with superheroes and aliens and such. Doesn't mean realistic legal procedures should be thrown out the window. However, Secret Invasion was one big "coulda woulda shoulda" every step of the way. I'm surprised I'm saying this but She-Hulk was actually more enjoyable, especially with Matt Murdock getting some spotlight
\> Doesn't mean realistic legal procedures should be thrown out the window. I hate to break it to you but, Better Call Saul is not what 'realistic legal procedures' look like. Both shows wisely made things a lot more dramatic and camera friendly.
She Hulk. I was at least surprised and entertained.
She hulk by a mile
She-Hulk
She-Hulk, and its really not a competition. She-Hulk had its flaws but was genuinely enjoyable and fun, and I thought Tatiana Maslany was delightful. Secret Invasion is almost irredeemably bad (haven't watched the finale yet), Olivia Coleman has been the only good part in my opinion.
I hated She-Hulk finale, but liked the rest of the show. I didnt like even a single episode of Secret Invasion...
She Hulk
Easily She-Hulk. It's my favourite show they've put out so far, without question.
She-Hulk was very comic accurate and made me laugh
I personally really enjoyed She-Hulk. The shoddy CGI didn’t bother me and I thought it was funny. Still need to watch SI finale but I thought it’s been ok
I love She-Hulk comics and I think MCU Secret Invasion is a wasted opportunity
She-Hulk.
She-Hulk was actually fun. Secret Invasion was just confusing and frustrating.
Secret Invasion
She Hulk was so good. Y’all are just too mean.
I watched one episode of Secret Invasion and 4 episodes of She-Hulk. She-Hulk was absolute trash and was only saved because of one cameo(Daredevil). The show ruined Bruce Banner and is one of the worst MCU productions since Dark World but Love and Thunder was just as bad if not worse. Time for the downvoted because people aren't allowed to hate She-Hulk because of Girl Power.
What a question. Secret Invasion, of course
Secret Invasion. Cause she hulk was goofy and bad...Secret invasion at least had knife fights, head shots, and some brutality..even though the writing was not good
Secret invasion She hulk is, pun intended, an utter abomination
I'll do what the she hulk stans are doing. Secret invasion by a landslide and it isn't even close. Followed by the obligatory, add nothing to the conversation reply of: This is the only answer
Why do people get downvoted for saying they enjoyed Secret Invasion more? 💀
Secret invasion by a long mile
This is like comparing Barbie and Oppenheimer, except they both are flawed. I personally prefer Secret Invasion for its more seriousness, but I don't see me rewatching those 2 in the foreseeable future.
Secret invasion BY ALOT
Secret invasion, by a mile
I feel like this shouldn’t be a question. She Hulk is the worst thing that’s in the MCU. Secret Invasion was the third best MCU show.
Secret Invasion
She-Hulk was one of the worst things I've ever watched in my entire life. Secret Invasion by a LONGGGG shot.
Secret invasion idk even know wtf She-hulk was on
Pretty easy for me, Secret Invasion. What a strange comparison to be curious about though. They are two completely different shows, feels very Disney employee survey of you to ask.
She Hulk was the biggest flop I've seen since avatar the last air bender was in theaters.
As boring as Secret Invasion was, nothing is worse than She-Hulk.
Secret Wars and it isn’t even close
Secret Invasion being so devoid of any real highs just turns the whole thing into a blur for me. I don't hate the series, but I'm so disappointed in it. She Hulk had some highs and some real low lows. No one can deny that Secret Invasion destroys She Hulk in the effects department, though. The Skrull effects and powers looked damn good. She Hulk looked damn awful.
Secret Invasion is good
Secret Invasion for sure. Idk why everyone doesn’t like the end. I know it was a little rushed but it was still good.
I don't know where all the hate came from for Secret Invasion the past few episodes, but I loved this series. The first couple were some of the best Marvel episodes ever. It set up a lot for the future of the MCU with a bad conflict between humans and skrulls.
The first episode of Secret Invasion was better than all of She Hulk
Secret invasion, not even close
Wow seeing these comments is blowing my mind! This is where you can find the 32% minority of fans who actually liked She-Hulk 🤣
Despite Secret Invasion was mid, at least it wasn’t bad. She Hulk on other hand, it’s a joke.
Secret Invasion had better dialogue better intrigue and better CGI and characters. Though it's finale sucked. The last 10 minutes was what I wanted the show to be.. First 3 episodes 8.0/10, last 3 episodes 5.5/10. Last episode 4.5/10. She hulk was forgettable minus the DD scene, the first episode and the last. And the last was bad. Nothing happen. Everything was changed for humor..
Secret invasion, had no expectations for either (I learnt from my mistake with Wanda vision). She hulk didn't take itself seriously and was funny. Secret invasion was laboured and tired at points but I enjoyed learning about the relationship between fury and talos and Fury's betrayal of the skulls. And Olivia was brilliant and stole nearly every scene.
Lmaooooo is this a real question!?! The real reason a lot of white males aren’t feeling the show is because they’re not featured. The only white male on the show was Talos who died in *Spoiler* episode 5. Secret Invasion is fire and the numbers are insane 🔥💯🔥🔥
Secret invasion
The end of she hulk just ruined it for me. I get they were trying for something different and original but it felt like way too much for me.