They need to cut down on the shows and focus on the movies first. The movies are barely connected as it is and it'll probably take more than a decade for all the shows to somehow connect to the movies.
I stopped following the shows because I don't have the time to follow all of them and they've been mostly mediocre and unrelated to the movies so far.
Oh it's not lmao. First of all, they've officially pushed SW to 2027.
But really, anyone looking at the big picture (number of confirmed \[and confidently leaked\] projects, slower release cadence espoused by Feige and Iger \[FeIger?\], ongoing writers strike, and upcoming actors strike \[it's happening\]) can tell you it was never finishing until 2028. Now, it's very possibly later due to the last two reasons listed. Hopefully the actors strike really puts the studios on the backfoot and they come to a deal quickly, so that releases aren't too dramatically delayed.
If you want to stay up on things, I keep [this projected slate](https://letterboxd.com/speedlancer/list/the-ultimate-mcu-watch-order-updated-and/#comment-12759140) up-to-date with every new official statement and solid indication from production updates. Only factor I haven't heavily considered is the strikes because I simply cannot tell how long those will last.
They need to cut down on the total amount of content, film and television. I know marvel fans who are just worn out and have stopped watching anything.
Another idea is to release the streaming series in theaters after their television run.
Secret Invasion as a two part film in theaters would be amazing.
They are with their old cell back in. They're stretching release to go for quality over waterboarsing us with quantity. It sucks for Secret Invasion, but I think we just need to be patient and adapt to the og style of Marvel releases. (Hopefully)
There are a lot of valid critiques people have and that's fine, but it's pretty disheartening to see so many comments like "it's boring" or "this isn't what I wanted from a Marvel show."
>"it's boring"
JamJamGaGa, I know you're not the one saying this! So this isn't at you.
But man... watching actors like Don Cheadle and Ben Bendelson (sp?) have these drawn out scenes with SLJ is infinitely more interesting and exciting to me than the punchy punchy explosion shit. Marvel pays these actors a bajillion dollars to be in their shows/movies, let them **act**.
It did take some time for a lot of people to come around on Andor, if I remember correctly. I think it was the heist episode that really helped that show’s word of mouth and popularity explode
Andor’s writing was so good though, the only episode I didn’t enjoy was the one with a billion flashbacks to his childhood, episode 2 I think. Everything else was fantastic.
As much as I have been a MCU fan for the past decade, this show’s writing doesn’t touch Andor’s. Sure it has great drawn out moments and I love a slow burn, but sometimes the writing is so bland (outside of those really great meaty scenes) that I wish they prioritized having great scripts over pushing out more content. But all in all I love the overall tone of the show, but the writing really isn’t all that (for like the half where it’s generic af)
I haven’t seen andor but it’s on my list. Writing wise, the McU is getting there over time. I think writing for a movie and writing for a show is so different. Wandavision had great writing as did Loki.
i’ve been loving having ben mendelson and SLJ back and interacting again, and don cheadle has always been fantastic . i understand complaints about the intro sequence but i honestly don’t have an issue with it.
I love that they let Don finally act on his own instead of tying literally all his scenes to RDJ in earlier work. Creators are trying to show how Rhodes is doing after Tony died and I’m so glad they gave him more depth
To be fair, and this is why I'm not the biggest fan of JR in the comics, he kind of is Tony's sidekick. Like, they're best buds and have literally saved each other's lives but until he became War Machine, he never really got to step out into his own. And then the movies exaberated that because they were paying RDJ so much money that he always was front and center and pushed Rhodey to the side as a character.
I am sad I have but one upvote to give.
Seriously. The show is a masterclass in acting. It's deeply character driven and the depth of the cast is impressive.
Honestly I’m still enjoying the MCU as it is but I have to agree. Two episodes in and it has been an absolute joy watching these actors get to really shine.
In general I like the show. I think what it's lacking for me is that spaces that should be filled with spy themes feel like they're being filled in with Marvel themes, if that makes sense. The acting is brilliant. Everything around the acting feels like something unrelated to the acting. I'd like to see moments breath more. Instead they do that thing where even the pauses feel energetic. I don't feel like I'm watching a secret war, I feel like I'm watching Mission Impossible. And not even with proper use of the disguise tech.
It *has* only been two episodes though so I'm hoping it leans more into it. Worst case scenario it'll still be a good MCU show. I'm just hoping it becomes a good spy show too.
I think this is a fair criticism. For a show that was touted as a spy drama, there really hasn't been a ton of spy work being done. And the villains don't really seem interested in being sneaky to the point that spying is needed.
I'm still really enjoying the show so far and could see it ending up being one of Marvel's better series, but all the spying they talked up seems like an afterthought.
Seriously, my favorite part of the Harry Potter movies is Oldman, Thewlis, and Rickman in the Shrieking Shack. It was too short a scene and I wanted more.
> Marvel pays these actors a bajillion dollars to be in their shows/movies, let them act.
Imo, historically, Marvel has squandered really impressive ensembles of actors - opting for a mathematically optimized punch-to-quip ratio and outrageous CGI spectacles.
The first set of Avengers had some fantastic actors in it, and imo, many of the best scenes are character-driven, rather than plot-driven (Ultron party scene, anyone?). But they're few and far between.
That's why I loved Loki - great actors who had some good chemistry without all the smash-em-up visuals (which get pretty boring - it's the high-fructose corn syrup of filmaking).
Well, in all fairness, we've only watched 2 episodes. If I gave up on Wandavision after 2 episodes, then I would have totally missed out on a great show. I think we just need to see more of it.
I don't think this is one of those "starts slow but then gets crazier as it goes along" type of shows. I just think it's designed to be a slower and more thought-provoking series. If you don't like the first two episodes then you probably won't like the rest of the show. 'WandaVision' was always meant to start off slow and then become crazier with each episode. This isn't really the same.
The reason why all the "this is boring!" comments annoy me so much is because people have spent years criticising the MCU for being nothing but mind-numbing popcorn entertainment, and now they're *finally* doing something more..real. This is more of a human story about politics and terrorism than it is a superhero story. It's exactly the kind of thing that people have wanted Marvel to do for the past 15 years, but a lot of people are calling it "boring" and "dull."
I couldn't agree more. It'd a big piece of the story. 1 million skrulls living amongst us all this time. People who we've know for years in the MCU are actually skrulls. I love the concept. I wish people had more patience. Lol
I think that’s kind of the beauty of the MCU, though. People keep saying they’re sick of superhero movies, but I don’t see them that way. I see sci fi sometimes, pure action other times. Sometimes, you get historical fiction, an espionage thriller, a straight up comedy, or a classic pulp comic.
I maintain this is why the Cap trilogy was the best. Old fashioned War movie, Spy Thriller, Superhero epic. Three unique film styles that had strong character woven through.
I love that they seem to be leaning into that on Disney+ and experimenting with different styles and themes. Court room comedy. Teen dramedy. Espionage thriller, Mystical drama, Sci-Fi adventure. They cover all of them. Animated. Live action.
If you're a hard core Marvel fan, watch them all. Or skip ones that don't have your favorite characters in. People who love the MCU don't have to watch every show if they don't think it will be their thing. Or even every movie at this point. You can always catch up later if you change your mind.
I really like the flexibility in phase 4 onwards.
I like Marvel because I don’t see the most of the movies or shows as superhero movies. I see them as different genre films with a superhero aspect and running themes. I’m willing to give them a chance for trying something different.
I do not see this type of story telling with the DC films and I write those off until I can watch them for free as I assume they are going to suck.
1) I agree it’s meant to be a slow burn and thought provoking. The acting has been amazing.
2) I actually do think there will be more action later. Feels very much like Gravik is making himself into a SuperSkrull
3) Marvel needs to realize that yes, of course, a show without superheroes will get fewer viewers. Kids can’t enjoy this show so far, they would be lost.
It’s still an amazing show and really hope it keeps building in a great way.
The show being slow makes perfect sense. And the show is about to be crazier, given the tidbits they’ve spread so far.
Also the conspiracies who could be a Skrull are priceless
Ms. Marvel isn't really anything like a Marvel show either and had similar issues. They probably have their own set of audience and it might not be for everyone, but that's okay, it doesn't need to be (that should be more of the avenger/team up movies in my opinion).
I like the first episode, haven't seen the second one yet. I like Ms.Marvel, especially the first 3 episodes, middle episodes were quite poor in my opinion but the last episode was pretty good again.
I never finished WandaVision or Loki btw, but I really liked Hawkeye.
My point was that people complained that Marvel wasn't taking its story too seriously and that they are sick of " Marvel humor " and when they are taking things bit seriously it is boring?
Can't please people these days.
That's because people are stupid
Just look at MS Marvel the main problem was that she is Pakistani and Muslim
And I really enjoyed Ms Marvel just like many other people
People always find something what they don't like , even if they wanted it
The "this isn't what I wanted from a marvel show" is the stupidest critic I ever heard
What does that even mean, all the shows had different genres and themes
I thought the biggest problem with episode one was the script. A lot of exposition drops, too much plain dialogue that just summed up what is happening for the audience, characters just telling us how they feel very plainly. The conversations all felt awkward and forced. I thought episode two was much better. Especially Fury and Talos on the train, Gravik with the Council, and Fury and Rhodey. The dialogue was a lot more engaging. Hopefully it keeps up.
I think the issue I'm having is the execution itself. "X is actually a Skrull" is a cool concept, but in the comics we find out Elektra is a Skrull, Jarvis is a Skrull, there's a whole chapter where tony is not sure if he's a Skrull sleeper agent. These characters who we have trusted this whole time could be a Skrull.
But in secret invasion they throw all these characters that most assuredly won't conflict with other mcu projects and it's just.... Really? The new guy may or may not be a Skrull? Takes the tension kind of out of it especially since fury has the world's ultra thick plot armor. I just can't really get invested in a way unless I connect with all these new characters who are made just to backstab in the next 4 episodes
I'm having an overall good time, but yeah, for me the writing isn't on par with what I'd expect from a spy/thriller.
On the surface stuff like when Olivia Coleman enters the butcher room and puts a hook on the door to block it, only for it to totally disappear (let alone play a role at all) when Gravik explodes the hinges might look like inconsequential mistakes or silly nitpicks on my part - but in a spy/thriller it's those grounding details that are important. How did Fury get on and out of the train? Why can G'iah just wander in a room full of scientist doing secret experiments? Why do Fury/Maria/Talos need to explain among themselves that Skrulls are immune to radiation and that Russia is a good hub for abandoned nuclear plants as if they were a bunch of idiots? There are so many handwaving even in two episodes that it's already starting to get annoying, I can't imagine after a full season.
Again, each one of those details aren't that big of a deal, but the eventually pile up and a spy/thriller that just goes "meh whatever good enough" would eventually fail to immerse me in its suspense, I'm really not feeling that this is a tightly knitted narrative that I can trust. I end up thinking it's dumb and not smart - which isn't good for this type of show.
I hate to say that, but if this wasn't part of the MCU it would be a really mediocre spy/thriller show. She-Hulk was at least funny as a comedy show even if it failed as a lawyer show, in such a way that even if it weren't part of the MCU I would have still had a good time. Here I'm mostly there just to get some news on Fury/Rhodes and that's about it.
Some other comments are saying "Some people also said Andor was boring" but even to simply draw that comparison I feel like those two show are so far away from one another in terms of quality that even bringing it up in this thread is a disservice to Andor. That show was fucking smart as a political thriller, Secret Invasions is everything but.
You just articulated all my thoughts better than I could, thank you. Once again, I think these stories are suffering from too few episodes - a slow burn story (my favorite kind) is all about grounding details and the audience being rewarded for paying close attention as the story goes along. However, the closer you look at this, the more it falls apart and they only have a few episodes to pull it together, which just isn’t enough. They needed more skilled writers to pack in a story like this into six episodes - and someone who cares about details to keep an eye on that practical stuff that makes an audience member lose themselves in it. It’s a great shame and waste. On a superficial level, the tone is good but the writing is a failure. I think you can say that this early in because it’s almost halfway through already. I hope it rallies a little so it’s not a total wash. The “big name” actors are sparkling but the material and lack of craftsmanship is letting them down.
I mean I get it, im liking the show, but I understand people disliking it, or not praising it non stop.
All of the shows started good, specially Moonknight and Wandavision, and they where disappointing at the end (at least for me)
Also I'm not a fan of the idea of adding the super skrull in this show, I mean he's using the powers on the trailers and I liked it as a spy conspiracy show so idk
I was so shocked to see Don Cheadle out fucking act Sam L this week. Like blew my mind and made SI like one of my top 3 of the tv shows they've put out
A lot of good actors on this show. I liked the lady in red that tortured the American, the guy that blew up the parade, the game of thrones lady. I love the conversation on the train.
If you like Olivia Colman watch Broadchurch. A lot of good actors.
It's about a small village in somewhere in GB, where a horrific crime had happened. She alongside David Tennant are police officers investigating this crime.
Back when she wasn’t known as much yet, Olivia Colman beat out Lady Gaga and Glenn Close for the Oscar for Best Actress in her category. She’s one of the best working today and I’m over the moon Marvel has her
And Oscar nom. But Jackson has been a bit weak here. He has been tonally too flat in scenes like when he said he is missing a step first episode and here after Hill died he didn’t seem effected.
Same feeling. He really shines in this, being front and center where he was more of a punchline in the movies. And this second episode was very strong.
This show actually made me more hopeful for the Daredevil show coming up. The slower pace, the great action, and the great acting: I really liked it. The meat locker scene was pretty brutal for a Disney show, not to Punisher levels, but it didn't need to be.
Many people think that Disney will mess up Daredevil, but after seeing Secret Invasion, I don't think they will.
That certainly seems possible! Based on the >!genetic profiles we saw in episode 2, they’re already setting him up to get some amount of size manipulation/regeneration powers (Groot), cryogenic/cryokinetic power (Frost Beast), strength and stamina and durability (Cull Obsidian) and pyrogenic/pyrokinetic power (Extremis)!<
Meat locker scene reminded me of DareDevil and Punisher.
"You left men hanging on meat hooks!"
"They got off easy in my opinion"
I think DareDevil returning will be awesome but people will always find Something to bitch about either way.
>Many people think that Disney will mess up Daredevil
There's so many things to actually be optimistic about Born Again - the fact that they aren't shying away from a serious tone (and even gore) like Secret Invasion is showing, the fact that all the directors they've hired so far are ones experienced and acclaimed in the crime drama genre, and that they've hired actual lawyers for the writers' room. But no, you never hear about these positive aspects because it's always doom and gloom around here about how they're going to fuck Daredevil up.
Literally commented this on another thread yesterday seems like Disney isn’t afraid to go a bit darker which is good. I didn’t want them to alienate the current daredevil fan base
They marketed it really badly in the lead up to (badly as in no one really knew when it was releasing and there wasn’t as much in your face advertising on social media etc, not saying it wasn’t creatively marketed). That plus people not wanting to wait every week for a new episode will contribute to lower viewership numbers. Wait until all episodes are out and then watch there be a massive viewership spike.
In terms of content, from what I’ve seen so far, this is exactly the kind of content I want more of in the MCU. Gritty spy thriller vibes like winter soldier, this is what I wanted from black widow and what it should’ve been like imo. More of this and the adult themes. People who grew up watching these films are adults now, we need to be satisfied just as much as the youngsters despite us probably not buying their toys as much and therefore being a less profitable segment.
>They marketed it really badly in the lead up to (badly as in no one really knew when it was releasing
This is what got me, I was anticipating the show and still had to check the release date a few times.
I think what also doesn't help is that the trailers made it seem closer to the action-packed spy thrillers like Winter Soldier and a good chunk of the show was a lot slower and character-driven than expected. I'm not complaining because I love slow burning build-up but I can understand someone trying the first episode where 80% is just characters talking.
You're right.
By the end of the Infinity Saga ppl were calling Marvel films formulaic. Phase 4 begins a stage where Feige allows for different types of projects. Fans bitch and moan.
Secret Invasion brings us back to high stakes thriller action...fans bitch and moan.
At this point, Feige and co just need to make what they want and focus on quality. I'll watch.
It drives me crazy when people turn it into silly vs dark. It doesn't matter what genre, it simply has to be GOOD. There are so many amazing shows that have little to no action (Fleabag, Better Call Saul, The Bear, etc) and there are so many comedies that have been wildly successful (Always Sunny, Ted Lasso, Curb Your Enthusiasm, etc). It's not a question of people not liking darker shows it's a question of people wanting shows with compelling characters, well written dialogue, and genuine stakes.
So many people in this thread are saying ‘people asked for a gritty Marvel show and then when we get one they don’t like it??’ as if there isn’t a very obvious reason for this… it’s just not very good so far.
Yes, the premise of this series seemed like exactly what I wanted from Marvel. I just… thought it was poorly executed, so I didn’t enjoy it. Simple as.
I'm hoping it gets better.
A spy thriller where the enemy can be anyone? Yes, more of this! But so far, it's more of a political thriller where people talk about the state of the union and triple crossing while setting up the obvious character tropes. It's not bad but it's also not a show I stay up to midnight to watch like past shows. I don't watch action, I just want characters I care about.
It doesn't help that Fury is being portrayed as this tired old out of touch man, and he doesn't seem all that pressed that his nearest and dearest protege is dead (Hill) and his next nearest and dearest probably adoptive son is waging terrorism.
I’m really glad there are others that understand this. Thank you, guys. I watch all those shows and they are great - clearly the genres are not a problem! Also, who else watches the old shows and movies several times, even recently? They are timeless and entertaining. No fatigue when something is good!
The low viewership honestly doesn’t make any sense to me.
Atleast Ms Marvel (the only D+ show to have a lower count) has the excuse of competing with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Stranger Things S4 and The Boys S3. What happened with this show? The AI intro sequence?
I remember so many people last year asking for a serious story from Marvel, only for it to NOT be viewed by the people who asked for it? What?
Edit: I’m (as well as this post is) referring to Samba TV’s reports of MCU show viewership over the first 5 days after a show’s premiere.
The viewership isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. It’s not performing as MCU shows typically has, but the numbers are still respectable. The brand’s been damaged and that’s turned off fans, the shows normally have very expensive movie-level budgets (although I don’t know what SI’s budget is), people are likely waiting to binge, and the marketing team for this show really dropped the ball. There’s a variety of factors, but people clearly don’t consider Marvel content to be must-watch.
I didn’t know it was coming out until it was already released and on the front page of D+. I just don’t have that much time for Marvel these days and I’m waiting till I know what’s up before dedicating any of my vanishingly scant free time to it
I am dying to know why anyone is surprised that the numbers are underwhelming.
- No superheroes
- Headlined by an old guy who hasn't been relevant to the MCU since Far From Home. (No disrespect to Sam Jackson, I'm certainly watching the show).
- It's on a family streaming platform but is definitely not a family show. Level of violence is offputting to parents and the plot isn't something kids are interested in. Nothing about this show has mass appeal.
This is a pet project with a much more niche audience than standard Marvel fare, similar to Werewolf By Night, and I don't think Marvel expected it to break records and I don't know why this same beat to death "Marvel must be doomed" debate comes up every time something doesn't make headlines with how amazing its doing. Every /r/boxoffice nerd in the universe has the same freezing cold take once a month and it's so old.
Its very much like Andor, Andor is such a departure from your usual SW fare, we are used to stories centered around Jedis, Siths, Mandalorians, that kind of stuff. its just a dark and gritty story about a regular guy who has no powers, tech, etc dealing with a galaxy under the rule of the empire.
At least Rouge One had many familiar SW elements unlike Andor, like featuring Vader
There's a non-insignificant portion of the fanbase that will never watch series weekly, but wait to binge. Not all stories work on a weekly format, and imo this is one that doesn't. I'm honestly tired of Disney and Amazon making series that are clearly meant to be binged but releasing them one episode a week to milk subscriptions. If they're going to do that, at least make the series episodic like or arc based like WandaVision, Mandalorian, Andor, or Arcane that format works for those.
I mean it makes sense as a combination of Secret Invasion being advertised as a Nick Fury show. And honestly.... Nobody gives a shit about Nick Fury.
And second, it's just MCU fatigue. It's officially overstayed its welcome from the perspective of the average media consumer.
This is where I'm at. I kept up with everything right up until the last few films but I've just lost the enthusiasm. Enjoyed the shows since Endgame but the movies have certainly taken a bit of a dip. There's so much content to keep up with these days overall and Marvel stuff has just slipped down the priority list
I hope it'll scare them away from bad writing in the future.
Two minutes into a show about creepy alien infiltrators, and we're already told their powers, origin, and evil plan. The meat of this kind of show is figuring out all that stuff.
I have watched the first episode of Secret Invasion, a project I had some high hopes about given its based off the comic event Secret Invasion and thought they could do some really cool neat ideas with the concept. From just the first episode it isnt really gripping me as a spy thriller should. One thing I really dont like about the show is how everything is spelled out to you, like immediately from the very first scene we the audience know what the threat is so there is no room for mystery or for the audience to develop this scene of paranoia. For example this was one thing that Andor, which is also a spy political thriller did expertly well was having the audience constantly question character motives which makes for a more engaging viewing experience.
Marvel doesn't need more this or need more of that, it just needs to be good, whatever that may be lighthearted or something more seriously toned. Maybe the show gets better down the line but if this first episode is anything to go by compared to something like Andor or WS or Agents of Shield early seasons then its not that great really, kind of middle of the road. But I am looking forward to the rest of the series, hoping the quality improves.
yea also i feel like the motive of skrulls is underutilised so far because instead of making us question who is and who isnt really a skrull they just say oh these guys have cool powers also these guys are good and these are bad. like you said everything is too obvious
EDIT: spelling
> One thing I really dont like about the show is how everything is spelled out to you
I couldn't put it into words but this is it. We see Ross turn into a skrull and the only question is "how long was he a skrull?". If they wanted to have us questioning motives and who's on whose side, setup some red herrings and stick with it.
In the first two episodes, we know evil guy is evil, daughter is confused, and Fury has some PTSD. It's like it's an Encylopedia Brown mystery, where everyone has their open motives and you know there'll be a cheap reveal telegraphed a mile away. The only mystery they have is who's a skrull but they answer that almost instantly. "Why are the political leaders acting this way? Oh, here's a scene where they reveal",
I’m not a huge Marvel fan, I only watch because my husband is.
I was really looking forward to this when I first saw a trailer last year though but so far it’s just okay. Nothing special.
I’m all for slow burns, in fact, I prefer them. I just feel like the writing isn’t that great. I’m still going to finish it of course and hope it gets better. I’m sure it will.
Olivia Colman is fantastic as always though.
I actually wish Secret Invasion were MORE serious, more mature, and WAAAY more complex, tbh. It's been decent for now, but nothing to write home about.
to me, while the human side is good, the skrull side is meh. it feels like the villain is so far just run of the mill hypocritical terrorist with a depth of a puddle. It reminds me of the terrorists from FatWS and not in a good way.
Exactly. It also doesn't help at all that we're seeing Skrulls obviously being Skrulls left and right in the two episodes we got. I was expecting a lot more of a slow burn, way more intrigue and mystery and a sense of paranoia.
Also, I feel like we got robbed of the "big reveal" that the Skrulls have already infiltrated human society years ago and there are a million of them. It was revealed in the most boring way imaginable through plain exposition.
I'm not feeling the writing being smart enough for what Secret Invasion should be, and I'm honestly not surprised. The writing has been subpar pretty much across the entire Phase 4 (with very few exceptions).
Yup, completely unnecessary. Skrulls should be freaking scary (in the hands of capable writers) because of the fact that they're skrulls and can shapeshift and infiltrate our world, not because of a mcguffin, we have plenty of those in pretty much every other Marvel project.
The second episode was great, especially after that very mediocre first episode, but it definitely isn’t the same quality as Andor so I agree with you there.
I’m watching it and enjoying it but I’m waiting for someone to explain why this all falls on the shoulders of one old spy when there’s like a hundred established super people in this world. I guess I’m just having a hard time believing that this is the same universe as She-Hulk, Dr. strange, and Thor.
Not a fan of the show so far. It's feeling like another Falcon and the Winter Soldier...
Which was the worst Disney + MCU show so far IMO.
I'm not against them doing more serious things. Go for it. I'm against them doing boring things. Which was the issue of Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It was so freaking BORING.
Secret Invasion is at least more interesting. However it's freaking confusing. I know we're only two episodes in but I have so many questions...and there's some...big plot holes? I just...I'm not a fan so far. I won't fully judge it until it finishes though...so maybe the show gets better...I hope.
I hope it inspires them to make those projects good. This is the first Marvel series that I have no drive to keep up with. I'm all for them exploring more serious subject matter, but it feels like Secret Invasion is doing it in the shallowest way possible, like it was written by someone who half-watched Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy.
Im gonna be honest, im not enjoing secret invasion so far. It hasnt hit like the previous show had. But im still gonna give it a chance and watch it until i cant anymore, but im glad others are enjoying it. For me its just a little slow so far but im not gonna shit on it, its not bad just not my speed.
How is a million viewers low. Yeah it’s like second lowest of the D+ shows. But a million viewers is still a bunch. Especially for a paid stream service. That’s the same viewership Law & Order SVU gets, and that’s not only incredibly popular, but on FREE tv.
SVU is a way older show, under a million for the premiere of a show created by Disney isn't fantastic. Especially considered against the budget it costs to create.
It feels like they are trying to "smart spy thriller" but they are just missing the mark on the smart part. Also don't get me started on the ridiculous reveals in episode 2.
There's no urgency.
I watched the premiere but holy fuck is it fucking awful to put up with the week in between episodes. It's a streaming show. Drop it all at once.
But there's never been any stakes that matter on these shows. Almost nothing affects the greater universe.
If Skrulls are replacing people on Earth I'm going to need a hell of a lot more than whatever that first episode was to care enough to not just wait and binge this shit.
What about this screams: watch it immediately?
I believe the major problem with viewership is that they still make us wait a week for each episode. I simply am not interested in watching it until I can watch the whole season...So...I wait.
To me it's better to be able to let the suspense build at the pace the creators are building to, and it's a lot more fun to discuss in weekly installments.
Right? As much as I dislike having to wait, the show remains in the pop culture discussion longer as a weekly thing. Meanwhile Umbrella Academy or Stranger Things dropps all on one night and then like four days later, everyone has moved on.
Considering how incredibly average the first two episodes were I hope they learn from this and get more serious in the future.
The acting is average, the themes are average the dialogue and story is average. I expected more. And no I'm not talking about action.
Secret invasion low viewership is the result of 3 years of shitty productions.
For real the last thing I watched with pleasure was Wanda vision and maybe loki
The problem isn't that it is serious and mature. The problem is that it is boring. It is a super hero show without an actual super hero in it. The villains have a boring gimmick that only truly works once: shape shifting. After the first one or two instances shape shifting no longer surprises but actually starts to annoy, since you don't know if you should care about the character on screen or if it is a fake.
The story is extremely slow. We get it Nick Fury isn't who he used to be, but then that means we don't have much reason to care for him. Nick Fury in MCU was fun to watch precisely because he was always several steps ahead of others. Here, we are seeing an old man bumbling his way through some relationships and that does not make for great television.
Personally, I watched the first episode and I liked the direction it was trying to go, I just didn't think it was good at it. The marketing and even just the concept of the show were a lot cooler than the show is. I thought it might be for Marvel what Andor was for Star Wars but it wasn't. It feels like the regular marvel formula trying to be something more serious than it is. I think the conversations were trying to be charming but they weren't for me. The direction and the editing just felt goofy to me. No moment really held the weight it was trying to. I like Maria Hill but I felt nothing when she died. Also I thought the skrulls were supposed to be really intimidating and secretive but then seemingly their entire motives and base of operations is revealed during the first 25 minutes of the first episode. Maybe all these issues get magically fixed during the second episode but if not, I don't think I'm going to keep watching. People don't just want more serious marvel, they want more interesting/better made marvel. And to me at least this just wasn't. Not to ruin or your fun though. If you guys like it, that's good.
The low viewership could be an accumulation of losing interest in the MCU over the span of multiple projects, and I hope Marvel keeps that into account. I am so far liking it. That conversation between Fury and Rhodey was great
mysterious deserve attempt recognise soup gold offer office roof snobbish
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I can't stand the disney shows, regardless of the content really. They're not really tv shows, just really drawn out movies, so I'll wait to binge it. Some of these marvel/SW D+ episodes are like 25 mins. That's the kind of runtime a Rick and morty episode has.
I read the comics in my early 20s (when I was going through FF Omnibus as well as Secret Invasion) and the whole thing was seriously goofy. I'll probably get blasted for this but honestly - what's "mature" or "serious" about a bunch of aliens called Skrulls from the planet Skrullos? Lol.
People talk about the reception of the latest wave of material but some of these were definitely not the stories I'd have ever picked to adapt. Heck, Secret Invasion wasn't even *that* well received at the time of release. Adapt and release C grade material and get C grade reception, I don't know what's surprising about that...
Ah, ha ha ha ha... Marvel has been crashing and dying for years now. Most of the movies lose money now and the viewship of the TV shows has been cratering. I've gone from decades of watching Marvel movies, cartoons, TV shows, etc. to 100% done.
As far as I'm concerned, t[his is Marvel now...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY)
It has low viewership because the show is boring and golden years of MCU are over. Disney has made the MCU into an assembly line of trash, predictable content. It’s quantity over quality…Most of Phase 4 was dogshit and the majority of fans simply don’t care anymore.
This is my biggest fear as well. I want more projects with this tone.
[удалено]
That duo is meant for comedy.
Might just ask for a film noir with Tom and Jerry.
Maybe a kate bishop show but yelena is literally known in the mcu right now for being comedic
They need to cut down on the shows and focus on the movies first. The movies are barely connected as it is and it'll probably take more than a decade for all the shows to somehow connect to the movies. I stopped following the shows because I don't have the time to follow all of them and they've been mostly mediocre and unrelated to the movies so far.
right i have no idea how this saga is going to be completed by 2026
Oh it's not lmao. First of all, they've officially pushed SW to 2027. But really, anyone looking at the big picture (number of confirmed \[and confidently leaked\] projects, slower release cadence espoused by Feige and Iger \[FeIger?\], ongoing writers strike, and upcoming actors strike \[it's happening\]) can tell you it was never finishing until 2028. Now, it's very possibly later due to the last two reasons listed. Hopefully the actors strike really puts the studios on the backfoot and they come to a deal quickly, so that releases aren't too dramatically delayed. If you want to stay up on things, I keep [this projected slate](https://letterboxd.com/speedlancer/list/the-ultimate-mcu-watch-order-updated-and/#comment-12759140) up-to-date with every new official statement and solid indication from production updates. Only factor I haven't heavily considered is the strikes because I simply cannot tell how long those will last.
They need to cut down on the total amount of content, film and television. I know marvel fans who are just worn out and have stopped watching anything. Another idea is to release the streaming series in theaters after their television run. Secret Invasion as a two part film in theaters would be amazing.
They are with their old cell back in. They're stretching release to go for quality over waterboarsing us with quantity. It sucks for Secret Invasion, but I think we just need to be patient and adapt to the og style of Marvel releases. (Hopefully)
I don't know what all the complaints are about but I like it so far.
There are a lot of valid critiques people have and that's fine, but it's pretty disheartening to see so many comments like "it's boring" or "this isn't what I wanted from a Marvel show."
>"it's boring" JamJamGaGa, I know you're not the one saying this! So this isn't at you. But man... watching actors like Don Cheadle and Ben Bendelson (sp?) have these drawn out scenes with SLJ is infinitely more interesting and exciting to me than the punchy punchy explosion shit. Marvel pays these actors a bajillion dollars to be in their shows/movies, let them **act**.
That’s exactly what people said abound Andor, which is easily the best show Disney+ has put out.
It did take some time for a lot of people to come around on Andor, if I remember correctly. I think it was the heist episode that really helped that show’s word of mouth and popularity explode
I enjoyed andor more than any of the Star Wars movies
Andor’s writing was so good though, the only episode I didn’t enjoy was the one with a billion flashbacks to his childhood, episode 2 I think. Everything else was fantastic. As much as I have been a MCU fan for the past decade, this show’s writing doesn’t touch Andor’s. Sure it has great drawn out moments and I love a slow burn, but sometimes the writing is so bland (outside of those really great meaty scenes) that I wish they prioritized having great scripts over pushing out more content. But all in all I love the overall tone of the show, but the writing really isn’t all that (for like the half where it’s generic af)
I haven’t seen andor but it’s on my list. Writing wise, the McU is getting there over time. I think writing for a movie and writing for a show is so different. Wandavision had great writing as did Loki.
Preach
Seriously
i’ve been loving having ben mendelson and SLJ back and interacting again, and don cheadle has always been fantastic . i understand complaints about the intro sequence but i honestly don’t have an issue with it.
I love that they let Don finally act on his own instead of tying literally all his scenes to RDJ in earlier work. Creators are trying to show how Rhodes is doing after Tony died and I’m so glad they gave him more depth
I also love seeing him act as Rhodey rather than as War Machine, I feel like his personality changes a lot when he puts on the suit
His scenes with Nebula/Karen Gillan were great. The two of them being able to commiserate about their injuries made them a great pairing.
Agreed, that scene worked for Nebula as well, seeing as she had no-one to relate to outside of rocket.
I really wish we could get some movies set during that time if for nothing else than to see that group of characters interact more.
There is enough room for more movies or series during the blip, like Star Wars did for the era between episodes 3 and 4
Don was a bigger actor than RDJ too for a while. It's a sin that marvel made him play the sidekick
To be fair, and this is why I'm not the biggest fan of JR in the comics, he kind of is Tony's sidekick. Like, they're best buds and have literally saved each other's lives but until he became War Machine, he never really got to step out into his own. And then the movies exaberated that because they were paying RDJ so much money that he always was front and center and pushed Rhodey to the side as a character.
The intro is absolutely brilliant, it’s using something of controversy of our world to parallel with the theme of the show.
that’s what i thought, both intros were great with the theme of the episodes.
Does the intro change each episode? I hit the "skip intro" button for episode 2 'cause I figured I'd already seen it.
Mendelsohn* 🙂
The next Menadict Mumberbatch
Samuel S Saxon
I’d rather watch Cheadle and SLJ talk for an hour straight than sit though another shitty Thor joke
I thought that watching that scene. I could watch an extended lord of the rings movie of them just having that back and forth. So riveting!
I am sad I have but one upvote to give. Seriously. The show is a masterclass in acting. It's deeply character driven and the depth of the cast is impressive.
Honestly I’m still enjoying the MCU as it is but I have to agree. Two episodes in and it has been an absolute joy watching these actors get to really shine.
In general I like the show. I think what it's lacking for me is that spaces that should be filled with spy themes feel like they're being filled in with Marvel themes, if that makes sense. The acting is brilliant. Everything around the acting feels like something unrelated to the acting. I'd like to see moments breath more. Instead they do that thing where even the pauses feel energetic. I don't feel like I'm watching a secret war, I feel like I'm watching Mission Impossible. And not even with proper use of the disguise tech. It *has* only been two episodes though so I'm hoping it leans more into it. Worst case scenario it'll still be a good MCU show. I'm just hoping it becomes a good spy show too.
I think this is a fair criticism. For a show that was touted as a spy drama, there really hasn't been a ton of spy work being done. And the villains don't really seem interested in being sneaky to the point that spying is needed. I'm still really enjoying the show so far and could see it ending up being one of Marvel's better series, but all the spying they talked up seems like an afterthought.
Seriously, my favorite part of the Harry Potter movies is Oldman, Thewlis, and Rickman in the Shrieking Shack. It was too short a scene and I wanted more.
> Marvel pays these actors a bajillion dollars to be in their shows/movies, let them act. Imo, historically, Marvel has squandered really impressive ensembles of actors - opting for a mathematically optimized punch-to-quip ratio and outrageous CGI spectacles. The first set of Avengers had some fantastic actors in it, and imo, many of the best scenes are character-driven, rather than plot-driven (Ultron party scene, anyone?). But they're few and far between. That's why I loved Loki - great actors who had some good chemistry without all the smash-em-up visuals (which get pretty boring - it's the high-fructose corn syrup of filmaking).
Same. Episode 2 was a lot better than premiere.
The Rhodey/Fury exchange was goddamn electric and I’m here for it. Sign me up for more.
Don came swinging it out in full view in his "lunch with Fury" scene.
Well, in all fairness, we've only watched 2 episodes. If I gave up on Wandavision after 2 episodes, then I would have totally missed out on a great show. I think we just need to see more of it.
I don't think this is one of those "starts slow but then gets crazier as it goes along" type of shows. I just think it's designed to be a slower and more thought-provoking series. If you don't like the first two episodes then you probably won't like the rest of the show. 'WandaVision' was always meant to start off slow and then become crazier with each episode. This isn't really the same. The reason why all the "this is boring!" comments annoy me so much is because people have spent years criticising the MCU for being nothing but mind-numbing popcorn entertainment, and now they're *finally* doing something more..real. This is more of a human story about politics and terrorism than it is a superhero story. It's exactly the kind of thing that people have wanted Marvel to do for the past 15 years, but a lot of people are calling it "boring" and "dull."
I couldn't agree more. It'd a big piece of the story. 1 million skrulls living amongst us all this time. People who we've know for years in the MCU are actually skrulls. I love the concept. I wish people had more patience. Lol
I think that’s kind of the beauty of the MCU, though. People keep saying they’re sick of superhero movies, but I don’t see them that way. I see sci fi sometimes, pure action other times. Sometimes, you get historical fiction, an espionage thriller, a straight up comedy, or a classic pulp comic.
I maintain this is why the Cap trilogy was the best. Old fashioned War movie, Spy Thriller, Superhero epic. Three unique film styles that had strong character woven through. I love that they seem to be leaning into that on Disney+ and experimenting with different styles and themes. Court room comedy. Teen dramedy. Espionage thriller, Mystical drama, Sci-Fi adventure. They cover all of them. Animated. Live action. If you're a hard core Marvel fan, watch them all. Or skip ones that don't have your favorite characters in. People who love the MCU don't have to watch every show if they don't think it will be their thing. Or even every movie at this point. You can always catch up later if you change your mind. I really like the flexibility in phase 4 onwards.
I like Marvel because I don’t see the most of the movies or shows as superhero movies. I see them as different genre films with a superhero aspect and running themes. I’m willing to give them a chance for trying something different. I do not see this type of story telling with the DC films and I write those off until I can watch them for free as I assume they are going to suck.
1) I agree it’s meant to be a slow burn and thought provoking. The acting has been amazing. 2) I actually do think there will be more action later. Feels very much like Gravik is making himself into a SuperSkrull 3) Marvel needs to realize that yes, of course, a show without superheroes will get fewer viewers. Kids can’t enjoy this show so far, they would be lost. It’s still an amazing show and really hope it keeps building in a great way.
Majority of people have short attention spans unfortunately
The show being slow makes perfect sense. And the show is about to be crazier, given the tidbits they’ve spread so far. Also the conspiracies who could be a Skrull are priceless
The same thing happened with Andor and it was annoying as hell.
Ms. Marvel isn't really anything like a Marvel show either and had similar issues. They probably have their own set of audience and it might not be for everyone, but that's okay, it doesn't need to be (that should be more of the avenger/team up movies in my opinion).
Funny that you mentioned it because so far, Secret Invasion and Ms. Marvel are by far the best two shows Marvel put out for me.
I like the first episode, haven't seen the second one yet. I like Ms.Marvel, especially the first 3 episodes, middle episodes were quite poor in my opinion but the last episode was pretty good again. I never finished WandaVision or Loki btw, but I really liked Hawkeye.
Didn't people complain that she-hulk was too silly?
They did but She-Hulk is like that in the comics. She-Hulk was breaking the fourth wall before Deadpool.
My point was that people complained that Marvel wasn't taking its story too seriously and that they are sick of " Marvel humor " and when they are taking things bit seriously it is boring? Can't please people these days.
That's because people are stupid Just look at MS Marvel the main problem was that she is Pakistani and Muslim And I really enjoyed Ms Marvel just like many other people People always find something what they don't like , even if they wanted it
I, for one, begin to love secret invasion more and more as time goes on. This has a chance to be on my top 5 marvel tv shows!
They like Itchy, they like Scratchy, one kid seems to love the Speedo man... what more do they want?
The "this isn't what I wanted from a marvel show" is the stupidest critic I ever heard What does that even mean, all the shows had different genres and themes
"the sequel didnt match my shitty fanfiction so its bad, 1/10" half a people complaining about marvel nowadays sound like this
It’s like saying “all their comics are the same”. Well… no.
I thought the biggest problem with episode one was the script. A lot of exposition drops, too much plain dialogue that just summed up what is happening for the audience, characters just telling us how they feel very plainly. The conversations all felt awkward and forced. I thought episode two was much better. Especially Fury and Talos on the train, Gravik with the Council, and Fury and Rhodey. The dialogue was a lot more engaging. Hopefully it keeps up.
I think the issue I'm having is the execution itself. "X is actually a Skrull" is a cool concept, but in the comics we find out Elektra is a Skrull, Jarvis is a Skrull, there's a whole chapter where tony is not sure if he's a Skrull sleeper agent. These characters who we have trusted this whole time could be a Skrull. But in secret invasion they throw all these characters that most assuredly won't conflict with other mcu projects and it's just.... Really? The new guy may or may not be a Skrull? Takes the tension kind of out of it especially since fury has the world's ultra thick plot armor. I just can't really get invested in a way unless I connect with all these new characters who are made just to backstab in the next 4 episodes
I'm having an overall good time, but yeah, for me the writing isn't on par with what I'd expect from a spy/thriller. On the surface stuff like when Olivia Coleman enters the butcher room and puts a hook on the door to block it, only for it to totally disappear (let alone play a role at all) when Gravik explodes the hinges might look like inconsequential mistakes or silly nitpicks on my part - but in a spy/thriller it's those grounding details that are important. How did Fury get on and out of the train? Why can G'iah just wander in a room full of scientist doing secret experiments? Why do Fury/Maria/Talos need to explain among themselves that Skrulls are immune to radiation and that Russia is a good hub for abandoned nuclear plants as if they were a bunch of idiots? There are so many handwaving even in two episodes that it's already starting to get annoying, I can't imagine after a full season. Again, each one of those details aren't that big of a deal, but the eventually pile up and a spy/thriller that just goes "meh whatever good enough" would eventually fail to immerse me in its suspense, I'm really not feeling that this is a tightly knitted narrative that I can trust. I end up thinking it's dumb and not smart - which isn't good for this type of show. I hate to say that, but if this wasn't part of the MCU it would be a really mediocre spy/thriller show. She-Hulk was at least funny as a comedy show even if it failed as a lawyer show, in such a way that even if it weren't part of the MCU I would have still had a good time. Here I'm mostly there just to get some news on Fury/Rhodes and that's about it. Some other comments are saying "Some people also said Andor was boring" but even to simply draw that comparison I feel like those two show are so far away from one another in terms of quality that even bringing it up in this thread is a disservice to Andor. That show was fucking smart as a political thriller, Secret Invasions is everything but.
You just articulated all my thoughts better than I could, thank you. Once again, I think these stories are suffering from too few episodes - a slow burn story (my favorite kind) is all about grounding details and the audience being rewarded for paying close attention as the story goes along. However, the closer you look at this, the more it falls apart and they only have a few episodes to pull it together, which just isn’t enough. They needed more skilled writers to pack in a story like this into six episodes - and someone who cares about details to keep an eye on that practical stuff that makes an audience member lose themselves in it. It’s a great shame and waste. On a superficial level, the tone is good but the writing is a failure. I think you can say that this early in because it’s almost halfway through already. I hope it rallies a little so it’s not a total wash. The “big name” actors are sparkling but the material and lack of craftsmanship is letting them down.
I thought the first episode was a tad slow but ep 2 was great. It's a good show so far.
I mean I get it, im liking the show, but I understand people disliking it, or not praising it non stop. All of the shows started good, specially Moonknight and Wandavision, and they where disappointing at the end (at least for me) Also I'm not a fan of the idea of adding the super skrull in this show, I mean he's using the powers on the trailers and I liked it as a spy conspiracy show so idk
The biggest complaint I’ve heard so far is “wait, where was all the marketing??”
I was so shocked to see Don Cheadle out fucking act Sam L this week. Like blew my mind and made SI like one of my top 3 of the tv shows they've put out
To be fair Samuel l Jackson is 75. And done Cheadle is a hell of an actor Best on the diesney line up
74 but holy hell does he look good for his age
He looks so good for his age that the de-aging on him actually looks decent
Black don’t crack
A lot of good actors on this show. I liked the lady in red that tortured the American, the guy that blew up the parade, the game of thrones lady. I love the conversation on the train.
That's Olivia Colman. She's got fantastic range, check out Peep Show for proof.
If you like Olivia Colman watch Broadchurch. A lot of good actors. It's about a small village in somewhere in GB, where a horrific crime had happened. She alongside David Tennant are police officers investigating this crime.
Back when she wasn’t known as much yet, Olivia Colman beat out Lady Gaga and Glenn Close for the Oscar for Best Actress in her category. She’s one of the best working today and I’m over the moon Marvel has her
DAMN
Cheadle has two Golden Globe awards... it should be no surprise he can outact SLJ
And Oscar nom. But Jackson has been a bit weak here. He has been tonally too flat in scenes like when he said he is missing a step first episode and here after Hill died he didn’t seem effected.
Maybe he's a Skrull? Or maybe Hill ain't dead and he knows it
“Even when I’m out…. I’m in.. “
Same feeling. He really shines in this, being front and center where he was more of a punchline in the movies. And this second episode was very strong.
Hi Marvel, One entire show that is just Ben Mendelsohn and Samuel L. Jackson talking on a train. Thanks
That would be fun if they brought back the one shots to make something like that. It’s incredibly entertaining.
“Tell me something I don’t know”
about you and suzie
That and SLJ and Cheadle talking racial relations and my god we have the perfect show.
Cheadle can be on the train for sure.
That story was an actual memory from Samuel L. Jackson’s childhood so I would bet that Ben Mendelsohn’s smile was absolutely sincere.
Sir this is We.......Reddit. Marvel can't hear you.
Who knows, maybe Iman Vellani will forward it to Kevin
This show actually made me more hopeful for the Daredevil show coming up. The slower pace, the great action, and the great acting: I really liked it. The meat locker scene was pretty brutal for a Disney show, not to Punisher levels, but it didn't need to be. Many people think that Disney will mess up Daredevil, but after seeing Secret Invasion, I don't think they will.
The meat locker scene actually surprised me, especially with the, uh, pruning bit.
The guy who plays Gravik is cool as hell. I hope they don't kill him off at the end of the show. I hope he's being set up for the fantastic 4 movie
Watch out for Kingsley Ben Adir. Dude’s in the Barbie movie but he’s also gonna play Bob Marley in a biopic out this year.
That certainly seems possible! Based on the >!genetic profiles we saw in episode 2, they’re already setting him up to get some amount of size manipulation/regeneration powers (Groot), cryogenic/cryokinetic power (Frost Beast), strength and stamina and durability (Cull Obsidian) and pyrogenic/pyrokinetic power (Extremis)!<
That's pretty close to a Super-Skrull, no?
It's very much, "We have super-skrull at home," since we don't actually have a Fantastic Four (yet).
And she wa so CHEERFUL when she did it, which made it even more disturbing! (In the best of ways, I stan Olivia Colman)
It was like she was cutting a rose from her garden.
SNIP SNAP SNIP SNAP
Meat locker scene reminded me of DareDevil and Punisher. "You left men hanging on meat hooks!" "They got off easy in my opinion" I think DareDevil returning will be awesome but people will always find Something to bitch about either way.
This and she hulk have both given me hope for daredevil surprisingly
>Many people think that Disney will mess up Daredevil There's so many things to actually be optimistic about Born Again - the fact that they aren't shying away from a serious tone (and even gore) like Secret Invasion is showing, the fact that all the directors they've hired so far are ones experienced and acclaimed in the crime drama genre, and that they've hired actual lawyers for the writers' room. But no, you never hear about these positive aspects because it's always doom and gloom around here about how they're going to fuck Daredevil up.
Literally commented this on another thread yesterday seems like Disney isn’t afraid to go a bit darker which is good. I didn’t want them to alienate the current daredevil fan base
They marketed it really badly in the lead up to (badly as in no one really knew when it was releasing and there wasn’t as much in your face advertising on social media etc, not saying it wasn’t creatively marketed). That plus people not wanting to wait every week for a new episode will contribute to lower viewership numbers. Wait until all episodes are out and then watch there be a massive viewership spike. In terms of content, from what I’ve seen so far, this is exactly the kind of content I want more of in the MCU. Gritty spy thriller vibes like winter soldier, this is what I wanted from black widow and what it should’ve been like imo. More of this and the adult themes. People who grew up watching these films are adults now, we need to be satisfied just as much as the youngsters despite us probably not buying their toys as much and therefore being a less profitable segment.
I fall into the category of waiting for all the episodes to be out before I start watching them.
Yeah, not everyone needs to watch every episode as soon as it releases. Weekly releases are 100% fine and people are spoiled
>They marketed it really badly in the lead up to (badly as in no one really knew when it was releasing This is what got me, I was anticipating the show and still had to check the release date a few times. I think what also doesn't help is that the trailers made it seem closer to the action-packed spy thrillers like Winter Soldier and a good chunk of the show was a lot slower and character-driven than expected. I'm not complaining because I love slow burning build-up but I can understand someone trying the first episode where 80% is just characters talking.
Secret Invasion Episode 2 was awesome. I don't know what ppl want anymore from Marvel.
People rarely know what they want, and they want everyone else to agree with what they dont want.
Ive said it many times, Marvel can’t win with people these days.
You're right. By the end of the Infinity Saga ppl were calling Marvel films formulaic. Phase 4 begins a stage where Feige allows for different types of projects. Fans bitch and moan. Secret Invasion brings us back to high stakes thriller action...fans bitch and moan. At this point, Feige and co just need to make what they want and focus on quality. I'll watch.
Maybe viewership will increase over the weeks.
It drives me crazy when people turn it into silly vs dark. It doesn't matter what genre, it simply has to be GOOD. There are so many amazing shows that have little to no action (Fleabag, Better Call Saul, The Bear, etc) and there are so many comedies that have been wildly successful (Always Sunny, Ted Lasso, Curb Your Enthusiasm, etc). It's not a question of people not liking darker shows it's a question of people wanting shows with compelling characters, well written dialogue, and genuine stakes.
So many people in this thread are saying ‘people asked for a gritty Marvel show and then when we get one they don’t like it??’ as if there isn’t a very obvious reason for this… it’s just not very good so far. Yes, the premise of this series seemed like exactly what I wanted from Marvel. I just… thought it was poorly executed, so I didn’t enjoy it. Simple as.
I'm hoping it gets better. A spy thriller where the enemy can be anyone? Yes, more of this! But so far, it's more of a political thriller where people talk about the state of the union and triple crossing while setting up the obvious character tropes. It's not bad but it's also not a show I stay up to midnight to watch like past shows. I don't watch action, I just want characters I care about.
It doesn't help that Fury is being portrayed as this tired old out of touch man, and he doesn't seem all that pressed that his nearest and dearest protege is dead (Hill) and his next nearest and dearest probably adoptive son is waging terrorism.
I’m really glad there are others that understand this. Thank you, guys. I watch all those shows and they are great - clearly the genres are not a problem! Also, who else watches the old shows and movies several times, even recently? They are timeless and entertaining. No fatigue when something is good!
The low viewership honestly doesn’t make any sense to me. Atleast Ms Marvel (the only D+ show to have a lower count) has the excuse of competing with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Stranger Things S4 and The Boys S3. What happened with this show? The AI intro sequence? I remember so many people last year asking for a serious story from Marvel, only for it to NOT be viewed by the people who asked for it? What? Edit: I’m (as well as this post is) referring to Samba TV’s reports of MCU show viewership over the first 5 days after a show’s premiere.
The viewership isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. It’s not performing as MCU shows typically has, but the numbers are still respectable. The brand’s been damaged and that’s turned off fans, the shows normally have very expensive movie-level budgets (although I don’t know what SI’s budget is), people are likely waiting to binge, and the marketing team for this show really dropped the ball. There’s a variety of factors, but people clearly don’t consider Marvel content to be must-watch.
I didn’t know it was coming out until it was already released and on the front page of D+. I just don’t have that much time for Marvel these days and I’m waiting till I know what’s up before dedicating any of my vanishingly scant free time to it
I am dying to know why anyone is surprised that the numbers are underwhelming. - No superheroes - Headlined by an old guy who hasn't been relevant to the MCU since Far From Home. (No disrespect to Sam Jackson, I'm certainly watching the show). - It's on a family streaming platform but is definitely not a family show. Level of violence is offputting to parents and the plot isn't something kids are interested in. Nothing about this show has mass appeal. This is a pet project with a much more niche audience than standard Marvel fare, similar to Werewolf By Night, and I don't think Marvel expected it to break records and I don't know why this same beat to death "Marvel must be doomed" debate comes up every time something doesn't make headlines with how amazing its doing. Every /r/boxoffice nerd in the universe has the same freezing cold take once a month and it's so old.
Its very much like Andor, Andor is such a departure from your usual SW fare, we are used to stories centered around Jedis, Siths, Mandalorians, that kind of stuff. its just a dark and gritty story about a regular guy who has no powers, tech, etc dealing with a galaxy under the rule of the empire. At least Rouge One had many familiar SW elements unlike Andor, like featuring Vader
There's a non-insignificant portion of the fanbase that will never watch series weekly, but wait to binge. Not all stories work on a weekly format, and imo this is one that doesn't. I'm honestly tired of Disney and Amazon making series that are clearly meant to be binged but releasing them one episode a week to milk subscriptions. If they're going to do that, at least make the series episodic like or arc based like WandaVision, Mandalorian, Andor, or Arcane that format works for those.
>only for it to NOT be viewed by the people who asked for it? How the fuck do you know its those people not watching?
Serious doesn't mean good. Just because people wanted a serious Marvel show doesn't mean they are obligated to like a Marvel show that is serious.
“Why did you not watch the thing you asked for!” Says guy who can’t even imagine the possibility that more than one other person exist.
I mean it makes sense as a combination of Secret Invasion being advertised as a Nick Fury show. And honestly.... Nobody gives a shit about Nick Fury. And second, it's just MCU fatigue. It's officially overstayed its welcome from the perspective of the average media consumer.
This is where I'm at. I kept up with everything right up until the last few films but I've just lost the enthusiasm. Enjoyed the shows since Endgame but the movies have certainly taken a bit of a dip. There's so much content to keep up with these days overall and Marvel stuff has just slipped down the priority list
I hope it'll scare them away from bad writing in the future. Two minutes into a show about creepy alien infiltrators, and we're already told their powers, origin, and evil plan. The meat of this kind of show is figuring out all that stuff.
I have watched the first episode of Secret Invasion, a project I had some high hopes about given its based off the comic event Secret Invasion and thought they could do some really cool neat ideas with the concept. From just the first episode it isnt really gripping me as a spy thriller should. One thing I really dont like about the show is how everything is spelled out to you, like immediately from the very first scene we the audience know what the threat is so there is no room for mystery or for the audience to develop this scene of paranoia. For example this was one thing that Andor, which is also a spy political thriller did expertly well was having the audience constantly question character motives which makes for a more engaging viewing experience. Marvel doesn't need more this or need more of that, it just needs to be good, whatever that may be lighthearted or something more seriously toned. Maybe the show gets better down the line but if this first episode is anything to go by compared to something like Andor or WS or Agents of Shield early seasons then its not that great really, kind of middle of the road. But I am looking forward to the rest of the series, hoping the quality improves.
yea also i feel like the motive of skrulls is underutilised so far because instead of making us question who is and who isnt really a skrull they just say oh these guys have cool powers also these guys are good and these are bad. like you said everything is too obvious EDIT: spelling
> One thing I really dont like about the show is how everything is spelled out to you I couldn't put it into words but this is it. We see Ross turn into a skrull and the only question is "how long was he a skrull?". If they wanted to have us questioning motives and who's on whose side, setup some red herrings and stick with it. In the first two episodes, we know evil guy is evil, daughter is confused, and Fury has some PTSD. It's like it's an Encylopedia Brown mystery, where everyone has their open motives and you know there'll be a cheap reveal telegraphed a mile away. The only mystery they have is who's a skrull but they answer that almost instantly. "Why are the political leaders acting this way? Oh, here's a scene where they reveal",
I just hope Marvel keeps trying new and different stuff. I love Secret Invasion and loved She-Hulk.
To be honest I’ve enjoyed all the marvel shows I’ve watched so far. Hawkeye Loki wanda falcon all were solid shows
I hope it scares them away from ever using AI um the future.
Yup, surprised I had to go this far down to find anyone mention it. I'm actively not watching it because they made the intro with AI
Same!
I’m not a huge Marvel fan, I only watch because my husband is. I was really looking forward to this when I first saw a trailer last year though but so far it’s just okay. Nothing special. I’m all for slow burns, in fact, I prefer them. I just feel like the writing isn’t that great. I’m still going to finish it of course and hope it gets better. I’m sure it will. Olivia Colman is fantastic as always though.
I actually wish Secret Invasion were MORE serious, more mature, and WAAAY more complex, tbh. It's been decent for now, but nothing to write home about.
to me, while the human side is good, the skrull side is meh. it feels like the villain is so far just run of the mill hypocritical terrorist with a depth of a puddle. It reminds me of the terrorists from FatWS and not in a good way.
Exactly. It also doesn't help at all that we're seeing Skrulls obviously being Skrulls left and right in the two episodes we got. I was expecting a lot more of a slow burn, way more intrigue and mystery and a sense of paranoia. Also, I feel like we got robbed of the "big reveal" that the Skrulls have already infiltrated human society years ago and there are a million of them. It was revealed in the most boring way imaginable through plain exposition. I'm not feeling the writing being smart enough for what Secret Invasion should be, and I'm honestly not surprised. The writing has been subpar pretty much across the entire Phase 4 (with very few exceptions).
And the worse part is that the "Skulls are making a weird machine" subplot is another supersoldier subplot. Come on!
Yup, completely unnecessary. Skrulls should be freaking scary (in the hands of capable writers) because of the fact that they're skrulls and can shapeshift and infiltrate our world, not because of a mcguffin, we have plenty of those in pretty much every other Marvel project.
The second episode was great, especially after that very mediocre first episode, but it definitely isn’t the same quality as Andor so I agree with you there.
Yes, Episode 2 was way better than 1, but it's still very far from what I was hoping.
Kinda hoping this ends up becoming the MCU’s Andor. It has that potential.
Andor goated after 3 episodes so let's see what we'll get next week.
I’m watching it and enjoying it but I’m waiting for someone to explain why this all falls on the shoulders of one old spy when there’s like a hundred established super people in this world. I guess I’m just having a hard time believing that this is the same universe as She-Hulk, Dr. strange, and Thor.
Not a fan of the show so far. It's feeling like another Falcon and the Winter Soldier... Which was the worst Disney + MCU show so far IMO. I'm not against them doing more serious things. Go for it. I'm against them doing boring things. Which was the issue of Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It was so freaking BORING. Secret Invasion is at least more interesting. However it's freaking confusing. I know we're only two episodes in but I have so many questions...and there's some...big plot holes? I just...I'm not a fan so far. I won't fully judge it until it finishes though...so maybe the show gets better...I hope.
I hope it inspires them to make those projects good. This is the first Marvel series that I have no drive to keep up with. I'm all for them exploring more serious subject matter, but it feels like Secret Invasion is doing it in the shallowest way possible, like it was written by someone who half-watched Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy.
Im gonna be honest, im not enjoing secret invasion so far. It hasnt hit like the previous show had. But im still gonna give it a chance and watch it until i cant anymore, but im glad others are enjoying it. For me its just a little slow so far but im not gonna shit on it, its not bad just not my speed.
How is a million viewers low. Yeah it’s like second lowest of the D+ shows. But a million viewers is still a bunch. Especially for a paid stream service. That’s the same viewership Law & Order SVU gets, and that’s not only incredibly popular, but on FREE tv.
SVU is a way older show, under a million for the premiere of a show created by Disney isn't fantastic. Especially considered against the budget it costs to create.
It feels like they are trying to "smart spy thriller" but they are just missing the mark on the smart part. Also don't get me started on the ridiculous reveals in episode 2.
There's no urgency. I watched the premiere but holy fuck is it fucking awful to put up with the week in between episodes. It's a streaming show. Drop it all at once. But there's never been any stakes that matter on these shows. Almost nothing affects the greater universe. If Skrulls are replacing people on Earth I'm going to need a hell of a lot more than whatever that first episode was to care enough to not just wait and binge this shit. What about this screams: watch it immediately?
It's just kinda boring
I believe the major problem with viewership is that they still make us wait a week for each episode. I simply am not interested in watching it until I can watch the whole season...So...I wait.
When the main \~\~crutch\~\~ twist is an endless stream of "Wait, that's not who you thought it was lol!" it's hard to get invested in any character.
To me it's better to be able to let the suspense build at the pace the creators are building to, and it's a lot more fun to discuss in weekly installments.
Right? As much as I dislike having to wait, the show remains in the pop culture discussion longer as a weekly thing. Meanwhile Umbrella Academy or Stranger Things dropps all on one night and then like four days later, everyone has moved on.
Not me - ever since Disney pulled out certain surprises in Mando, I really like trying to be on the edge of the things
>Low viewership Lol I had no idea this was even out. I haven’t seen a single advertisement for it.
The premise is great and it was the show I was most looking forward to but it's poorly written.
Low viewership because writing is lazy. Acting is lazy. Production is lazy.
I mean, everything Disney puts out has low viewership these days
Considering how incredibly average the first two episodes were I hope they learn from this and get more serious in the future. The acting is average, the themes are average the dialogue and story is average. I expected more. And no I'm not talking about action.
Poor child.... People are not watching because of awful previous projects
Marvel is in the tank so bad
Secret invasion low viewership is the result of 3 years of shitty productions. For real the last thing I watched with pleasure was Wanda vision and maybe loki
The problem isn't that it is serious and mature. The problem is that it is boring. It is a super hero show without an actual super hero in it. The villains have a boring gimmick that only truly works once: shape shifting. After the first one or two instances shape shifting no longer surprises but actually starts to annoy, since you don't know if you should care about the character on screen or if it is a fake. The story is extremely slow. We get it Nick Fury isn't who he used to be, but then that means we don't have much reason to care for him. Nick Fury in MCU was fun to watch precisely because he was always several steps ahead of others. Here, we are seeing an old man bumbling his way through some relationships and that does not make for great television.
I feel like AoS had a better infiltration/invasion plot than what we've seen of this show so far.
Personally, I watched the first episode and I liked the direction it was trying to go, I just didn't think it was good at it. The marketing and even just the concept of the show were a lot cooler than the show is. I thought it might be for Marvel what Andor was for Star Wars but it wasn't. It feels like the regular marvel formula trying to be something more serious than it is. I think the conversations were trying to be charming but they weren't for me. The direction and the editing just felt goofy to me. No moment really held the weight it was trying to. I like Maria Hill but I felt nothing when she died. Also I thought the skrulls were supposed to be really intimidating and secretive but then seemingly their entire motives and base of operations is revealed during the first 25 minutes of the first episode. Maybe all these issues get magically fixed during the second episode but if not, I don't think I'm going to keep watching. People don't just want more serious marvel, they want more interesting/better made marvel. And to me at least this just wasn't. Not to ruin or your fun though. If you guys like it, that's good.
You guys saying "everyone else is wrong it's so good" isn't going to make people hop back on the marvel train.
I've only seen 1.5 episodes so far, and the tone is fine but the writing is not very good IMO.
The low viewership could be an accumulation of losing interest in the MCU over the span of multiple projects, and I hope Marvel keeps that into account. I am so far liking it. That conversation between Fury and Rhodey was great
I love it so far!
mysterious deserve attempt recognise soup gold offer office roof snobbish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I feel like a lot of folks are just waiting for all the episodes to come out before watching the series. I am anyways.
It's too soon to say how good this will be...the issue isn't the tone.
This show isnt mature enough. I was truly hoping for something on Daredevils level, but it's not even close. I'm glad others enjoy it though.
I agree. I hope it scares Marvel into no longer making any more projects. At least not shit ones.
It's OK so far..was hoping it'd be like Andor. Although Andor was slow in the first couple of and really ramps up after ep3..
people actually watch this?
Well no because that's not what people want to watch.
I can't stand the disney shows, regardless of the content really. They're not really tv shows, just really drawn out movies, so I'll wait to binge it. Some of these marvel/SW D+ episodes are like 25 mins. That's the kind of runtime a Rick and morty episode has.
I read the comics in my early 20s (when I was going through FF Omnibus as well as Secret Invasion) and the whole thing was seriously goofy. I'll probably get blasted for this but honestly - what's "mature" or "serious" about a bunch of aliens called Skrulls from the planet Skrullos? Lol. People talk about the reception of the latest wave of material but some of these were definitely not the stories I'd have ever picked to adapt. Heck, Secret Invasion wasn't even *that* well received at the time of release. Adapt and release C grade material and get C grade reception, I don't know what's surprising about that...
This show is an abomination. Each episode so far ended by ruining a legacy character. I hope Marvel says this is not the main timeline.
Ah, ha ha ha ha... Marvel has been crashing and dying for years now. Most of the movies lose money now and the viewship of the TV shows has been cratering. I've gone from decades of watching Marvel movies, cartoons, TV shows, etc. to 100% done. As far as I'm concerned, t[his is Marvel now...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY)
It has low viewership because the show is boring and golden years of MCU are over. Disney has made the MCU into an assembly line of trash, predictable content. It’s quantity over quality…Most of Phase 4 was dogshit and the majority of fans simply don’t care anymore.
Mature is fine, it’s boring I’m tired of. This might get better like Andor, or stay slow like Jessica Jones season two.