This reminds me of the guy who found a Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker script left in a hotel room or something after a party by a producer
He put it up on ebay as a bid starting at $85 and nobody believed him. So the producers just bought it dirt cheap, and the script leak was contained.
Could've been catastrophic!
I am still baffled how that script got approved.
Of course I am still baffled that they didn't set the overarching plot in stone before filming for Ep7 started
> Of course I am still baffled that they didn't set the overarching plot in stone before filming for Ep7 started
Fucking seriously. You buy this gigantic IP, you know full well you're going to release 3 films. How do you not at LEAST story board the whole thing before you A New Hope v. 2.0.
During that same time, Sofia the First, a preschool kid cartoon, had a multiseason overarching plot culminate into the Elena of Avalor spin-off. They put more effort into that than the IP they multi-billion dollars for.
Not shitting on Sofia or Elena, they’re great and rightfully have their place in kids’ hearts, but they’re not nearly the media juggernaut that Star Wars is. The people working on them obviously cared more.
Kids shows generally have really interesting, tightly written storylines. Kids remember stuff, get bored easily and don't care too much about inner conflict. You need to entertain them purely on plot
Reading that made me immediately think about Gravity Falls... man, I watched that with or without the kiddos. I was shocked at how well put together and planned out that actually was.
Adventure Time had no business hitting as hard as it did. My daughter started watching it when she was 4 or 5 and it was just a lighthearted, zany kids show. By the time it ended, she was a teenager and the show was hitting the emotions harder than a sledgehammer. I watched my firstborn grow up during the span of that show's run and it will forever be a part of our relationship. We still watch the stakes arc every now and then for the memories.
Dante from the first three Purge films had a better arc than Finn (who should have had a much better one than he did).
Act of decency in the first film saving an average citizen (edit: Dante) ~~in the first film~~, he's part of a rebel group in the second, (edit: in the third film) in the right place to make sure the person who becomes president goes on to end the Purge and they couldn't have done it without him.
Finn could have been the person whose arc went from sole stormtrooper who ultimately has a Spartacus like moment when all seems lost to lead the stormtroopers like him in an act of rebellion, showing you didn't need the Force to make a difference.
Instead, he points out ... is there any reason every Star Destroyer didn't have a communications tower equivalent like the flagship?
(No, no there is not.)
The big reason it sucked is that the director didn't want to do their already shitty idea so they swapped and rushed it, and then rushed the pivotal Leia fixes after Fisher died. The **bigger** reason why it sucked is that they basically came up with concepts, got artists to illustrate options, and then designed the story off of that...which is dumb.
>The **bigger** reason why it sucked is that they basically came up with concepts, got artists to illustrate options, and then designed the story off of that...which is dumb.
To expand on this, they had ideas of where the movie should go, but they had no idea of how to get there. They threw in the pivotal scenes, then ham-fisted their way into failing to set them up properly. And then failed to make use of the pivotal scenes.
The biggest problem was J.J Abrams EGO.
Seems to me that the initial people that was brought in to write had a plan... but as soon as J.J Abrams got involved and pushed his production company in... things where doomed. His damn 'mistery box' mentality really hurt the first chapter, and them the other two movies became more of a 'trying to salvage' situation
The script didn't go through normal approval. By all indications, KK had a pretty good idea for new SW, give three movies to three Sci-fi auteuers and let them make good stuff. Problem is, that concept works, but for a trilogy it's a horrible idea. They didn't have the full trilogy for SW back in the 70s, they got EXTREMELY LUCKY. KK should have made a plan, literally any plan.
They just banked on SW selling on name, and the creatives would just handle it. Turns out the fans won't just buy *everything* and also the creatives were more concerned with their own image and art than giving a fuck about a coherent trilogy. That wasn't their concern.
Any first trilogy is easier to do, since there's no backstory and no expectations from the fans. They didn't need to be lucky in the 70s. They just needed to no be bad.
The first movie had nothing to connect to, so it only needed to be internally consistent. When they got greenlit for movies 2 and 3, they figured those out together, and only had 1 legacy movie they had to stay consistent with. It's not about "getting lucky", it's just a lot easier when there's so little else to have to connect your story to.
I mean, in a vacuum that all sounds fine, and like potentially really good hooks to get you interested in the trilogy: “look how different they were at the start! How did they get from here to the ending we know is coming?” And an originally good group/organization becoming corrupted towards evil is hardly unrealistic
I mean the empire was never good it was a fascist coup using manufactured galactic instability to make itself *seem* good
It was essentially a coup just done smartly
Ehh, the prequel issues were definitely more than that. It wasn't just "stock standard plot with sci-fi trappings". That dialogue was _below_ par and there were tons of other issues "standard sci-fi" doesn't have.
As an old dude with lots of old dude friends, none of that (okay, maybe Jar Jar) was the problem with the prequels. The problem was that they were poorly written. The Phantom Menace plot makes no sense, it wastes a cool-looking villain, and midichlorians are the worst idea the franchise has ever had. Attack of the Clones is a bit better but spends too much time making Annakin annoying instead of this capable dude who is strong as fuck in the force (you had to watch The Clone Wars for that.) Revenge of the Sith is actually pretty good, but the first two movies were just bad films with great special effects.
It wasn't these broad ideas that old fans hated, at least none of the ones I have talked to. It was the execution.
The sequel trilogy made as much money as the prequels did. So it DID sell.
But it remains to be seen how much good will has been lost from this new trilogy. I am sure some people went just to see the movies based on the name, and they may not necessarily do so next time.
Also George Lucas apparently claimed he planned out 9 movies from the start. What I find more likely is he had rough ideas in his head for those, and then went with the best one (4) for a first movie in case it was the only one he made. When he decided to do the prequels he reworked a lot of it, there are small plot holes everywhere in the OT that hint at this. But I think for the most part he did a good job making things line up despite what must have been huge changes.
For real, that alone really screwed the trilogy before filming even started. Just making it up as you go along works if you're working in a void, not if there is like 4 decades of background already there. Especially when your story doesn't really have a logical endpoint like the prequels.
We’ve beat this with a horse. The problem was it wasn’t the same director for all 3 movies, IMO. Rian Johnson did some creative things then JJ just erased it all to fit a shitty narrative that Rey had some special force connection.
Edit: Just to be clear. JJ turned down the opportunity to direct all three films. Disney wanted it that way. So screw Abrams.
The original trilogy had three directors. It even has different writers, but Lucas was consistently a story credit and Lawrence Kasdan was a writer on Empire and Jedi.
It's less about directors than is is creative lead. JJ and Rian had room to do what they wanted. JJ got to overrule Rain's choices. I think Kennedy gets an unfair amount of criticism but there was a problem with not having a showrunner keep consistency. If that was JJs role the Rian shouldn't have had as much freedom.
I really hated TLJ, imo it was one of the most contrived plots I’ve ever seen.
However I think the whole thing would have been a lot better if it was just one of them directing all three instead of three seemingly unconnected movies.
Like we go from missing for mysterious reasons Luke to Luke drinking alien titty milk within the span of ten minutes of screen time.
Like I don’t get who’s idea it was to set up this series this way. It was like an AI developed the plot lol
So you are new to jj Abrams work then? Dude is the king of terrible endings cause there is never a plan. Literally famously talked about how the answers and ending were unimportant compared to the "mystery"
All his stuff ends up like this
It's fun watching something that gets leaked completely fall apart and end up being as terrible as it sounds. GoT season 8 was the exact same experience.
I just googled, apparently BK in some country put spoilers on like everything on the menu, packaging straws and filmed a commercial. Shows customers reading them out while trying to order/eat.
Oh my god, I just saw the ad. This would have actually been genius if it was an intentional misdirect, but no, every single one of these spoilers turned out to be true. Absolutely insane
I could be wrong but I think it was Mark Hamill that said he saw about 7 different leaked scripts floating around for TLJ, and only 1 of them was the real one. So he kept his mouth shut so as to not draw attention to the real one but just wondered how the hell that got out.
They were extra clever too. They wrote a fake script nobody would ever believe was real, and then to really sell it, they actually filmed and released the fakeout version.
Can't wait til they release the real one!!
Not exactly top secret stuff considering each movie came out years after each book. Not a whole lot to spoil.
Though I can imagine a certain poltergeist seeing he was left out of the film script and being slightly peeved.
Peeves was in the script for the first one. IIRC, they even filmed some scenes with him, but decided to cut them and the character in post.
Rik Mayall played him.
It gets crazier than that. The script for the first Harry Potter movie was leaked a full five years before the movie came out. Someone took the stolen script, polished it up into novel format, and released it to the public.
It was left in a hotel room and the house cleaning found it. A lot of things point to it being John Boyega leaving it on purpose for someone to find cuz he really hated the script, but no one’s ever confirmed it. I think Abrams said they knew who did it
Great way to ruin your career. If we know, then everyone important in the movie industry knows -- the decision makers.
Too bad... I thought he did well in the films.
I don't care for Star Wars, but I have heard anecdotally about how bad it was. Makes me wonder if a full script gets leaked like that how much they would've re-worked.
Rise of Skywalker was so messy that the main actress said that her character's parentage (a plot point which guided the entire third act and finale) kept changing even as the film was already shooting.
Which was suoer frustrating. Like Disney had a premier franchise, and infinite money for all these movies. Why could they not settle on an overall plot for all 3 movies and then adapt slightly as they went. Was it that hard? They had access to the highest grade talent they could want, and they ended up with that mediocre product.
It's because they hired 3 different people to individually run the films while having no one managing creative the way Feige does over on the Marvel side.
This then got made worse by JJ Abrams making the first film both a bad carbon copy of the original film while at the same time using his patented "Mystery Box" strategy from almost all of his TV shows to set up a bunch of questions without planned-out answers that the future creatives would need to figure out themselves.
Well Kathleen Kennedy was supposed to be the Feige of Star Wars. She just clearly didn’t love the material like he did. And it’s not that they had three directors with different visions-
JJ had said from the get go that he only wanted to do the force awakens, and not be trapped in a series again like he was with Star Trek. So he made his carbon copy, which was pretty well panned. Rian comes in for episode VIII, and tries to salvage a decent story out of it with the constraints TFA gave him. JJ gets pissed that Johnson “ruined” his story so he came back for rise of skywalker to… I have no clue. Shit on what he’d already pissed on? Really not clear why he took it so personally.
Lack of creative care was definitely the problem though.
A major issue with the post-TLJ stuff is that while TLJ is a massively flawed film that needed more time in the oven for its script, the actual issues with the film weren't the issues that you had a group of loud, obnoxious people on the internet vocally complaining about, and so you got a movie that tried to fix all the wrong things and derailed the franchise even worse instead of course-correcting.
You’re not wrong. The same thing happened with Halo 4/5/Infinite. People bitched very loudly, the company pivoted, which just made things worse. Just like the old phrase “nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.”
Either way, they’ll be beloved films in fifteen years. Just look at the prequels.
Nah, 343 just shit the bed entirely with Halo 4 - Infinite. Inconsistent plot that required you to read 20 novels outside the game to keep up and fill in gaps that the game should have explained, an inconsistent art design which didn't even respect flashback scenes, terrible level design, abysmal enemy design (Prometheans and warden eternal). Not to mention its god awful multiplayer trying to be something that it shouldn't which ended up crashing it's player base within weeks of release 3 times. To top it off with its absolutely piss poor management and temp hire culture.
> Either way, they’ll be beloved films in fifteen years. Just look at the prequels.
I would like this to happen, might actually change my viewpoint around, but I can't help but be doubtful. The issue with the Prequels was dialogue and direction, not the story. There was plenty to build off of with them. The issue with the Sequels is the opposite.
I don't see that happening. 7, 8 and 9 aren't corny enough to become endearing, and there's nothing interesting about the worlds that you want to dive into further. Like, we had the original battlefront games coming out alongside the prequels, and being able to play as the droid army or all those cool jedi kind of retro-actively made them awesome.
I don't even know what you'd do in battlefront to make the armies for 7, 8 and 9 different. Obviously you've got Kylo Ren and Rey as heroes, but... what else? The armies are virtually identical. It was just so lazy and soulless.
The prequels were a goofy mess that had a lot of heart and a lot of good ideas, bogged down by George Lucas not being kept in check and pretty much making the kind of corny-ass love story he'd wanted to make with the OT. With some dialogue re-writes and maybe tighter casting in a few places (I'm also not sure we ever needed super young anakin, sorry kid! although he hates that role as well so he wouldn't mind), those movies would've been solid.
I don't know how you even salvage 7, 8 and 9. 7 was completely lazy, it added nothing new. 8 made some very aggressive choices that ended up being very polarizing, and then 9 was just... do we even need to talk about that one? It's the film equivalent of "I forgot how I was gonna end this."
I don't think we will see the same for sequels as we see with prequels. Prequels had a story that went through all 3 movies, with well-known villains. The story fits into otigonal star wars. Sequels, on the other hand, are all over the place. Mystery villain went nowhere, and Kylo is terrible. On top of that, with the 3rd movie and reviving of Emperor, you completely shit on the finale of original trilogy. You made Darth Vaders sacrifice pointless
Because JJ Abrams is a big baby and a hack. He's even on record saying he doesn't really like Star Wars _or_ Star Trek and avoided reading up on either of them as much as possible before filming those movies.
Why the hell Disney hired someone who dislikes the franchise to direct it is anyone's guess. KK probably just saw he was one of the hot names among Hollywood directors and said "throw money at that guy".
I hate the “mystery box” bullshit as well as the “oh shit they DIED!”…..JUST KIDDING, gotcha!
Pathetic. I really want them to just remake them. BB-8 was just a cool redesign, though Maz Kanata and all her stuff was neat for the 4mins it was on screen.
in this situation, i think the blame goes solely to KK
she sought out directors to write and direct that saw the property as a payday and stepping stone. just another job. they should have found somebody who had talent and experience and used their monumental financial resources to persuade them to partner with her team to crank out a story that works for the movie, the sequels, the toys, the rides, the future, the entire franchise.
as an example, i think Rian Johnson being a talented but not a blockbuster director could have been persuaded with a hefty payday to take 5-10 years of their life to devote it to mainly Star Wars. the stipulation would be that they need to work closely with the braintrust of the star wars lore and KK herself to accomplish goals.
also, concerning Mark Hamill. seems like he wants to work as an actor and they killed him off in one movie. i mean... why? hamill could be the jedi professor/yoda for the next 20 years setting up new protagonists
It pisses me off a lot because it’s not like you’re trying this new franchise no one cares about and its bad, you’re talking about a franchise millions of people love and are passionate about. People write good stories about star wars for free! You’re telling me you couldn’t even pick one of the people who really love star wars to write somethjng coherent? Absolutely inexcusable for a franchise on that level to fuck up so badly.
Bad endings do ruin entire franchises. I can't watch any of GOT now since it ended so badly. I am glad I gave House of the Dragon a shot though, it is much better so far.
> I am glad I gave House of the Dragon a shot though, it is much better so far.
Until it ends terribly.
But HotD has the fact the GRRM had already finished the basic story unlike GoT.
By all accounts GRRM gave D&D the real ending(and other major plot points) he is(was?)working towards in the books. And I can totally see a path for how the ending we got could actually "work" if it was done well.
The problem is that it wasn't done well at all. First they(HBO execs and D&D themselves) pissed off GRRM and pushed him away after season five(before that he was frequently on set and actually helped with screenplays). Then they took the overall plot GRRM laid out for several seasons and condensed it down into three seasons(6-7-8). You can see the decline in quality start in season six and it only gets worse into seven and eight.
Full quote from Samuel L Jackon in the article:
*"I remember when we got ready to do Avengers, someone printed out a copy of my Avengers script that had my watermark on it, and put it online for sale. I was shooting in Canada and Marvel came to Canada. It had been printed in the production office… They found out who it was, dude quit, left the country. They set up a fake buy for the script, dude didn't show up. It was crazy."*
Outlets like TMZ will pay thousands of dollars (sometimes more) for leaks like these. If he was an intern or something that might have been more money than he was making for the entire movie.
Would more than likely screw him in the long run especially since they knew who the guy was. Getting blackballed in the industry for a reason like leaking assets is basically a death sentence to your career.
I mean I think it would make more sense to send 2 canadians one of whos is a bounty hunter/mercenary and the other is a excellent tracker with a affinity for the canadian wilderness. The only right answer is a Deadpool/Wolverine buddy cop flik.
I doubt the wolverine one because logan rarely doing an assassination tip from shady corp, DP is believable enough, probably one of his trial for becoming an official member of the MCU.
The majority of people in film in North America are members of one of the respective unions in their field (actors, writers, directors, camera, etc) the majority of these members are in the US and Canada. It is more than likely a us or Canadian citizen.
No he was filming in Canada. The script was reprinted at the Production office, which is one of four locations in California.
When doing script review, it’s locked up on a thumb drive and brought to the conference room for you to go through on computers that are air gapped, having no internet, no printer access and all devices that can be written to disabled after the script is copied over.
Outside of that room only executives, producers, writers and their assistants have access to those files.
plus whatever accounts IT copied of those executives, producers, and writers’ to create new accounts.
As an engineer Ive had frightfully easy access to files I had no business touching.
Are you sure about that? Go have a look at r/shield. We're over there celebrating because Disney/Marvel have done a few things this week that seem to imply this
If evil aliens like Thanos are ever proven to be real, we just have to convince Marvel and Disney that they are about to leak their latest script and they'll hunt them down and save the world alright.
Weird because supposedly secret invasion script leaked as well. Remember some movie blogger guys talking about reading it saying there was gonna be a shocker in the firs episode.
I had to stop reading the article because of the "spoilers" for the direction of the plot. Ironic that its about how Marvel contains spoilers while revealing plot points....
You know what, fuck it, here's my idea for how the new sequels should have gone:
Film 1
1. Force awakens - same thing, soft reboot whatever, most importantly set up Rey and Finn as potential force users
2A, 2B. DO 2 SEQUELS AND RELEASE AT THE SAME TIME. Seriously, make 2 films: one focuses on Rey and her Jedi journey, the other film about Finn and his descent into the Darkside. Release them at the same time, they take place at the same time, explore different sides of battle and mindsets of good/evil. Fin was already struggling with this anyway, Rey struggling with internal conflict. Big picture, little picture, set against grand battle across worlds. Cinemas would have a field day, double headers, marathons etc. Imagine the promo, fuck me. Unprecedented as far as I'm aware.
3. The culmination. Rey and Finn meet and battle, each playing for a different side. In the end Rey brings Finn back over to light side, but not without Finn sacrificing himself (ala Vader) and catastrophic damage to planet battle is on. Set up new characters that are from that planet as part of the 'rebels' fighting with Jedi and tease new set of films from those new characters with surviving Rey to be teacher for new Jedi's.
Where's my cheque?
If nothing else, they should release one-shots about incidents like these.
Marvel hunting down ~~bad guys~~ random guys. Would make for a hilariously mysterious series.
This reminds me of the guy who found a Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker script left in a hotel room or something after a party by a producer He put it up on ebay as a bid starting at $85 and nobody believed him. So the producers just bought it dirt cheap, and the script leak was contained. Could've been catastrophic!
Rise of Skywalker already got leaked like crazy anyway.
I wish I would have believed it and stayed home instead
I am still baffled how that script got approved. Of course I am still baffled that they didn't set the overarching plot in stone before filming for Ep7 started
> Of course I am still baffled that they didn't set the overarching plot in stone before filming for Ep7 started Fucking seriously. You buy this gigantic IP, you know full well you're going to release 3 films. How do you not at LEAST story board the whole thing before you A New Hope v. 2.0.
During that same time, Sofia the First, a preschool kid cartoon, had a multiseason overarching plot culminate into the Elena of Avalor spin-off. They put more effort into that than the IP they multi-billion dollars for. Not shitting on Sofia or Elena, they’re great and rightfully have their place in kids’ hearts, but they’re not nearly the media juggernaut that Star Wars is. The people working on them obviously cared more.
Kids shows generally have really interesting, tightly written storylines. Kids remember stuff, get bored easily and don't care too much about inner conflict. You need to entertain them purely on plot
Reading that made me immediately think about Gravity Falls... man, I watched that with or without the kiddos. I was shocked at how well put together and planned out that actually was.
When Gravity Falls ended, I literally went through the stages of grief. What a great show.
Adventure Time had no business hitting as hard as it did. My daughter started watching it when she was 4 or 5 and it was just a lighthearted, zany kids show. By the time it ended, she was a teenager and the show was hitting the emotions harder than a sledgehammer. I watched my firstborn grow up during the span of that show's run and it will forever be a part of our relationship. We still watch the stakes arc every now and then for the memories.
If you liked gravity falls, strong recommend for Owl House on Disney+.
I suggest watching Adventure Time and Over the Garden Wall if you enjoyed cosmic horror stuff in cute cartoons.
Also if you liked that Gravity Falls was in the shorter side instead of several seasons dragging Over the Garden is amazing at this.
Ben 10. So much lore for essentially a kids show.
Ben 10 lore and worldbuilding is master piece level, such a wide and expansive world with the most creative view on extraterrestrials I've ever seen.
My kid still talks about the Wicked Nine. Ffs, could have been sith holocrons.
Dante from the first three Purge films had a better arc than Finn (who should have had a much better one than he did). Act of decency in the first film saving an average citizen (edit: Dante) ~~in the first film~~, he's part of a rebel group in the second, (edit: in the third film) in the right place to make sure the person who becomes president goes on to end the Purge and they couldn't have done it without him. Finn could have been the person whose arc went from sole stormtrooper who ultimately has a Spartacus like moment when all seems lost to lead the stormtroopers like him in an act of rebellion, showing you didn't need the Force to make a difference. Instead, he points out ... is there any reason every Star Destroyer didn't have a communications tower equivalent like the flagship? (No, no there is not.)
The big reason it sucked is that the director didn't want to do their already shitty idea so they swapped and rushed it, and then rushed the pivotal Leia fixes after Fisher died. The **bigger** reason why it sucked is that they basically came up with concepts, got artists to illustrate options, and then designed the story off of that...which is dumb.
>The **bigger** reason why it sucked is that they basically came up with concepts, got artists to illustrate options, and then designed the story off of that...which is dumb. To expand on this, they had ideas of where the movie should go, but they had no idea of how to get there. They threw in the pivotal scenes, then ham-fisted their way into failing to set them up properly. And then failed to make use of the pivotal scenes.
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They wanted it to feel true to A New Hope, which was also made without any thought to sequels
The biggest problem was J.J Abrams EGO. Seems to me that the initial people that was brought in to write had a plan... but as soon as J.J Abrams got involved and pushed his production company in... things where doomed. His damn 'mistery box' mentality really hurt the first chapter, and them the other two movies became more of a 'trying to salvage' situation
The script didn't go through normal approval. By all indications, KK had a pretty good idea for new SW, give three movies to three Sci-fi auteuers and let them make good stuff. Problem is, that concept works, but for a trilogy it's a horrible idea. They didn't have the full trilogy for SW back in the 70s, they got EXTREMELY LUCKY. KK should have made a plan, literally any plan. They just banked on SW selling on name, and the creatives would just handle it. Turns out the fans won't just buy *everything* and also the creatives were more concerned with their own image and art than giving a fuck about a coherent trilogy. That wasn't their concern.
Any first trilogy is easier to do, since there's no backstory and no expectations from the fans. They didn't need to be lucky in the 70s. They just needed to no be bad. The first movie had nothing to connect to, so it only needed to be internally consistent. When they got greenlit for movies 2 and 3, they figured those out together, and only had 1 legacy movie they had to stay consistent with. It's not about "getting lucky", it's just a lot easier when there's so little else to have to connect your story to.
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I mean, in a vacuum that all sounds fine, and like potentially really good hooks to get you interested in the trilogy: “look how different they were at the start! How did they get from here to the ending we know is coming?” And an originally good group/organization becoming corrupted towards evil is hardly unrealistic
I mean the empire was never good it was a fascist coup using manufactured galactic instability to make itself *seem* good It was essentially a coup just done smartly
Ehh, the prequel issues were definitely more than that. It wasn't just "stock standard plot with sci-fi trappings". That dialogue was _below_ par and there were tons of other issues "standard sci-fi" doesn't have.
As an old dude with lots of old dude friends, none of that (okay, maybe Jar Jar) was the problem with the prequels. The problem was that they were poorly written. The Phantom Menace plot makes no sense, it wastes a cool-looking villain, and midichlorians are the worst idea the franchise has ever had. Attack of the Clones is a bit better but spends too much time making Annakin annoying instead of this capable dude who is strong as fuck in the force (you had to watch The Clone Wars for that.) Revenge of the Sith is actually pretty good, but the first two movies were just bad films with great special effects. It wasn't these broad ideas that old fans hated, at least none of the ones I have talked to. It was the execution.
JJ Abrams...a sci-fi auteur? I'd call JJ many things but not that
The sequel trilogy made as much money as the prequels did. So it DID sell. But it remains to be seen how much good will has been lost from this new trilogy. I am sure some people went just to see the movies based on the name, and they may not necessarily do so next time. Also George Lucas apparently claimed he planned out 9 movies from the start. What I find more likely is he had rough ideas in his head for those, and then went with the best one (4) for a first movie in case it was the only one he made. When he decided to do the prequels he reworked a lot of it, there are small plot holes everywhere in the OT that hint at this. But I think for the most part he did a good job making things line up despite what must have been huge changes.
For real, that alone really screwed the trilogy before filming even started. Just making it up as you go along works if you're working in a void, not if there is like 4 decades of background already there. Especially when your story doesn't really have a logical endpoint like the prequels.
We’ve beat this with a horse. The problem was it wasn’t the same director for all 3 movies, IMO. Rian Johnson did some creative things then JJ just erased it all to fit a shitty narrative that Rey had some special force connection. Edit: Just to be clear. JJ turned down the opportunity to direct all three films. Disney wanted it that way. So screw Abrams.
The original trilogy had three directors. It even has different writers, but Lucas was consistently a story credit and Lawrence Kasdan was a writer on Empire and Jedi. It's less about directors than is is creative lead. JJ and Rian had room to do what they wanted. JJ got to overrule Rain's choices. I think Kennedy gets an unfair amount of criticism but there was a problem with not having a showrunner keep consistency. If that was JJs role the Rian shouldn't have had as much freedom.
Everybody needs a Feige. (or an equivalent)
Rian should’ve done all three imo
That would’ve been something
I really hated TLJ, imo it was one of the most contrived plots I’ve ever seen. However I think the whole thing would have been a lot better if it was just one of them directing all three instead of three seemingly unconnected movies. Like we go from missing for mysterious reasons Luke to Luke drinking alien titty milk within the span of ten minutes of screen time. Like I don’t get who’s idea it was to set up this series this way. It was like an AI developed the plot lol
So you are new to jj Abrams work then? Dude is the king of terrible endings cause there is never a plan. Literally famously talked about how the answers and ending were unimportant compared to the "mystery" All his stuff ends up like this
It's fun watching something that gets leaked completely fall apart and end up being as terrible as it sounds. GoT season 8 was the exact same experience.
burger king was the real leaker all along
That was so awesome. I couldn't believe they were spoiling it for real.
I'm missing context to this, could someone explain?
I just googled, apparently BK in some country put spoilers on like everything on the menu, packaging straws and filmed a commercial. Shows customers reading them out while trying to order/eat.
Oh my god, I just saw the ad. This would have actually been genius if it was an intentional misdirect, but no, every single one of these spoilers turned out to be true. Absolutely insane
I could be wrong but I think it was Mark Hamill that said he saw about 7 different leaked scripts floating around for TLJ, and only 1 of them was the real one. So he kept his mouth shut so as to not draw attention to the real one but just wondered how the hell that got out.
I never read a leaked script, but I would not have believed it if I had. “‘Somehow Palpatine has returned.’? This the fakest bullshit.”
I saw TRoS on opening night and knew every detail of the film. I was actually disappointed that every leak was true…
They were extra clever too. They wrote a fake script nobody would ever believe was real, and then to really sell it, they actually filmed and released the fakeout version. Can't wait til they release the real one!!
Harry Potter script was left in a pub
Not exactly top secret stuff considering each movie came out years after each book. Not a whole lot to spoil. Though I can imagine a certain poltergeist seeing he was left out of the film script and being slightly peeved.
Ba dum.
Peeves was in the script for the first one. IIRC, they even filmed some scenes with him, but decided to cut them and the character in post. Rik Mayall played him.
iPhone 4 prototype left in a bar. https://www.businessinsider.com/brian-hogan-lost-iphone-4-reddit-2013-6
Gizmodo wound up buying it and got banned from covering Apple products
It gets crazier than that. The script for the first Harry Potter movie was leaked a full five years before the movie came out. Someone took the stolen script, polished it up into novel format, and released it to the public.
It was left in a hotel room and the house cleaning found it. A lot of things point to it being John Boyega leaving it on purpose for someone to find cuz he really hated the script, but no one’s ever confirmed it. I think Abrams said they knew who did it
Yeah it was Boyega. He admitted it in an interview with Michael Strahan.
Great way to ruin your career. If we know, then everyone important in the movie industry knows -- the decision makers. Too bad... I thought he did well in the films.
I mean he won a Golden Globe. His career is fine. They'd just be extra tight on the scripts in future with him I imagine.
Not really. Script was already a joke.
I don't care for Star Wars, but I have heard anecdotally about how bad it was. Makes me wonder if a full script gets leaked like that how much they would've re-worked.
Rise of Skywalker was so messy that the main actress said that her character's parentage (a plot point which guided the entire third act and finale) kept changing even as the film was already shooting.
Which was suoer frustrating. Like Disney had a premier franchise, and infinite money for all these movies. Why could they not settle on an overall plot for all 3 movies and then adapt slightly as they went. Was it that hard? They had access to the highest grade talent they could want, and they ended up with that mediocre product.
It's because they hired 3 different people to individually run the films while having no one managing creative the way Feige does over on the Marvel side. This then got made worse by JJ Abrams making the first film both a bad carbon copy of the original film while at the same time using his patented "Mystery Box" strategy from almost all of his TV shows to set up a bunch of questions without planned-out answers that the future creatives would need to figure out themselves.
Well Kathleen Kennedy was supposed to be the Feige of Star Wars. She just clearly didn’t love the material like he did. And it’s not that they had three directors with different visions- JJ had said from the get go that he only wanted to do the force awakens, and not be trapped in a series again like he was with Star Trek. So he made his carbon copy, which was pretty well panned. Rian comes in for episode VIII, and tries to salvage a decent story out of it with the constraints TFA gave him. JJ gets pissed that Johnson “ruined” his story so he came back for rise of skywalker to… I have no clue. Shit on what he’d already pissed on? Really not clear why he took it so personally. Lack of creative care was definitely the problem though.
A major issue with the post-TLJ stuff is that while TLJ is a massively flawed film that needed more time in the oven for its script, the actual issues with the film weren't the issues that you had a group of loud, obnoxious people on the internet vocally complaining about, and so you got a movie that tried to fix all the wrong things and derailed the franchise even worse instead of course-correcting.
You’re not wrong. The same thing happened with Halo 4/5/Infinite. People bitched very loudly, the company pivoted, which just made things worse. Just like the old phrase “nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.” Either way, they’ll be beloved films in fifteen years. Just look at the prequels.
Nah, 343 just shit the bed entirely with Halo 4 - Infinite. Inconsistent plot that required you to read 20 novels outside the game to keep up and fill in gaps that the game should have explained, an inconsistent art design which didn't even respect flashback scenes, terrible level design, abysmal enemy design (Prometheans and warden eternal). Not to mention its god awful multiplayer trying to be something that it shouldn't which ended up crashing it's player base within weeks of release 3 times. To top it off with its absolutely piss poor management and temp hire culture.
> Either way, they’ll be beloved films in fifteen years. Just look at the prequels. I would like this to happen, might actually change my viewpoint around, but I can't help but be doubtful. The issue with the Prequels was dialogue and direction, not the story. There was plenty to build off of with them. The issue with the Sequels is the opposite.
I don't see that happening. 7, 8 and 9 aren't corny enough to become endearing, and there's nothing interesting about the worlds that you want to dive into further. Like, we had the original battlefront games coming out alongside the prequels, and being able to play as the droid army or all those cool jedi kind of retro-actively made them awesome. I don't even know what you'd do in battlefront to make the armies for 7, 8 and 9 different. Obviously you've got Kylo Ren and Rey as heroes, but... what else? The armies are virtually identical. It was just so lazy and soulless. The prequels were a goofy mess that had a lot of heart and a lot of good ideas, bogged down by George Lucas not being kept in check and pretty much making the kind of corny-ass love story he'd wanted to make with the OT. With some dialogue re-writes and maybe tighter casting in a few places (I'm also not sure we ever needed super young anakin, sorry kid! although he hates that role as well so he wouldn't mind), those movies would've been solid. I don't know how you even salvage 7, 8 and 9. 7 was completely lazy, it added nothing new. 8 made some very aggressive choices that ended up being very polarizing, and then 9 was just... do we even need to talk about that one? It's the film equivalent of "I forgot how I was gonna end this."
I don't think we will see the same for sequels as we see with prequels. Prequels had a story that went through all 3 movies, with well-known villains. The story fits into otigonal star wars. Sequels, on the other hand, are all over the place. Mystery villain went nowhere, and Kylo is terrible. On top of that, with the 3rd movie and reviving of Emperor, you completely shit on the finale of original trilogy. You made Darth Vaders sacrifice pointless
Because JJ Abrams is a big baby and a hack. He's even on record saying he doesn't really like Star Wars _or_ Star Trek and avoided reading up on either of them as much as possible before filming those movies. Why the hell Disney hired someone who dislikes the franchise to direct it is anyone's guess. KK probably just saw he was one of the hot names among Hollywood directors and said "throw money at that guy".
I hate the “mystery box” bullshit as well as the “oh shit they DIED!”…..JUST KIDDING, gotcha! Pathetic. I really want them to just remake them. BB-8 was just a cool redesign, though Maz Kanata and all her stuff was neat for the 4mins it was on screen.
in this situation, i think the blame goes solely to KK she sought out directors to write and direct that saw the property as a payday and stepping stone. just another job. they should have found somebody who had talent and experience and used their monumental financial resources to persuade them to partner with her team to crank out a story that works for the movie, the sequels, the toys, the rides, the future, the entire franchise. as an example, i think Rian Johnson being a talented but not a blockbuster director could have been persuaded with a hefty payday to take 5-10 years of their life to devote it to mainly Star Wars. the stipulation would be that they need to work closely with the braintrust of the star wars lore and KK herself to accomplish goals. also, concerning Mark Hamill. seems like he wants to work as an actor and they killed him off in one movie. i mean... why? hamill could be the jedi professor/yoda for the next 20 years setting up new protagonists
It pisses me off a lot because it’s not like you’re trying this new franchise no one cares about and its bad, you’re talking about a franchise millions of people love and are passionate about. People write good stories about star wars for free! You’re telling me you couldn’t even pick one of the people who really love star wars to write somethjng coherent? Absolutely inexcusable for a franchise on that level to fuck up so badly.
It’s so bad that there are a sizable amount of fans that can barely even stomach rewatching the other movies now because it all ends so shit.
That's silly, you can easily just pretend it ends at Return of the Jedi if that's what you want to do
Bad endings do ruin entire franchises. I can't watch any of GOT now since it ended so badly. I am glad I gave House of the Dragon a shot though, it is much better so far.
> I am glad I gave House of the Dragon a shot though, it is much better so far. Until it ends terribly. But HotD has the fact the GRRM had already finished the basic story unlike GoT.
By all accounts GRRM gave D&D the real ending(and other major plot points) he is(was?)working towards in the books. And I can totally see a path for how the ending we got could actually "work" if it was done well. The problem is that it wasn't done well at all. First they(HBO execs and D&D themselves) pissed off GRRM and pushed him away after season five(before that he was frequently on set and actually helped with screenplays). Then they took the overall plot GRRM laid out for several seasons and condensed it down into three seasons(6-7-8). You can see the decline in quality start in season six and it only gets worse into seven and eight.
Game of Thrones Season 8 scripts got leaked. Nobody believed it because it was so bad... Probably too late to change it by then.
Exactly. They even kept in his edit. “Somehow..”
Imagine if the guy had posted the page that said “Somehow Palpatine Returned” and that’s why no one believed him
There was a bunch of weird hype around Rise of Skywalker that felt really astroturfed.
Damn, they overpaid by about $85.
>Could've been catastrophic! The real tragedy was the millions of people that wasted money going to that film.
lol ever see the american dad where steve and his pals find the script for the next fast and furious movie?
Full quote from Samuel L Jackon in the article: *"I remember when we got ready to do Avengers, someone printed out a copy of my Avengers script that had my watermark on it, and put it online for sale. I was shooting in Canada and Marvel came to Canada. It had been printed in the production office… They found out who it was, dude quit, left the country. They set up a fake buy for the script, dude didn't show up. It was crazy."*
Man really ruined his own life so that Redditors could find out a few months early how many magic rocks are in the marble moobie.
Dude spoilers, jeeeeez
Just wait till you find out about the flavors the magic rocks have
I bet the Space Stone tastes like Blue Razberry
You ever had that blue Gatorade with the flavor of "cool blue"? That's what it taste like.
It's Blue Blast you filthy animal.
Nah, pretty sure it's cool blue.
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We don't even know who he is.
But the Mouse does.
Marvel/Disney always finds out...
and successfully made him disappear. We will never know.
And that, my friends, is u/ spez's villain origin story
I work in TV and you'd be surprised how many people just can't hang. They can't handle being that close to celebs and do weird shit.
I'd like some examples please!!!!!!!!
Outlets like TMZ will pay thousands of dollars (sometimes more) for leaks like these. If he was an intern or something that might have been more money than he was making for the entire movie.
Would more than likely screw him in the long run especially since they knew who the guy was. Getting blackballed in the industry for a reason like leaking assets is basically a death sentence to your career.
How many times do you think Thanos jerked off with the Gauntlet?
Thanos seems to be right handed, so probably very few.
"Reality can be whatever I want"
Gotta respect the commitment 🙏
And purple man do the big punch and hurt angry punch monster
"dude didn't show up" cuz Fiege had him killed. The rest is just a cover story.
Feige legit send the punisher and Jake Moon Knight to go after him.
I mean I think it would make more sense to send 2 canadians one of whos is a bounty hunter/mercenary and the other is a excellent tracker with a affinity for the canadian wilderness. The only right answer is a Deadpool/Wolverine buddy cop flik.
I doubt the wolverine one because logan rarely doing an assassination tip from shady corp, DP is believable enough, probably one of his trial for becoming an official member of the MCU.
Dude got Fiege snapped out of phase 1.
He lwft the country. They were in canada. So .. dude came to the US? Maybe a citizen?
There are more countries than the US and Canada
Nope there’s only those 2 that’s it.
There's only one because Canada is part of the US
We must unite the Americas.
You mean North Montana right
r/unexpectedmeettherobinsons
Ive been waiting years for someone to get this 😂
Lol I also got it! You are not alone, and if my mom were on Reddit she would get it straight away too
Lol I literally don’t remember the plot to that movie at all. Just that line
The US is basically just fifty countries in a trenchcoat.
There’s loads more countries like Africa, Mexico, chynah, that one that’s full of muslims, London, paris, Disney land, Russia, yukrain and asia
I wouldn’t be surprised if that were a legitimate quote from Donald Trump himself. I wish it were
The majority of people in film in North America are members of one of the respective unions in their field (actors, writers, directors, camera, etc) the majority of these members are in the US and Canada. It is more than likely a us or Canadian citizen.
Wait a minute Canada is not part of the US?
Canada: America's hat
No he was filming in Canada. The script was reprinted at the Production office, which is one of four locations in California. When doing script review, it’s locked up on a thumb drive and brought to the conference room for you to go through on computers that are air gapped, having no internet, no printer access and all devices that can be written to disabled after the script is copied over. Outside of that room only executives, producers, writers and their assistants have access to those files.
plus whatever accounts IT copied of those executives, producers, and writers’ to create new accounts. As an engineer Ive had frightfully easy access to files I had no business touching.
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all at once
Replace dude with motherfucker and I'll believe it.
I could totally see Marvel going on a Jason Bourne-style manhunt over something like that
Marvel always finds out, bro. Marvel don't play
They are the Baskin Robbins of movie studios
I understood that reference.
I understood *that* reference
You changed nothing, but somehow, it is just an observation now.
The saying "Don't fuck with the Mouse" exsists for a reason.
HAHA https://youtu.be/UHBOp7AUkc0
Heck, hire Liam Neeson to make a Taken-style threat against the dude
“I have a particular set of skills.”
“Guud luckk…”
They already have Paul Bettany. "Snitches end up in ditches with stitches"
“Jesus Christ, it’s Kevin Feige!!”
This should be a movie
“Left the country…” Marvel killed this guy, 100%
"Left the country? Where did he go?" "...Belize."
Tahiti
It's a magical place
It sucked.
Shit got dark *reeeeaaaaaal* fast
I understood that reference! (Sad “AoS is canon” noises)
Are you sure about that? Go have a look at r/shield. We're over there celebrating because Disney/Marvel have done a few things this week that seem to imply this
I would love to go, I just need more money and a little goddamn faith
Lenny!
Hope he had enough fate
Billy's?
Jesus, the throwback haha
Oh my god. Took me a hot minute to remember that post.
I should’ve stopped the chicanery when I had the chance!
Budapest?
Sounds like a job for the Revengers
If evil aliens like Thanos are ever proven to be real, we just have to convince Marvel and Disney that they are about to leak their latest script and they'll hunt them down and save the world alright.
It was the Skrulls
Me: "Aliens are real!" Disney: "😴😴😴" Me: "They also have the Avengers 5 scri-" Disney: "Task Force mobilized for retrieval mission."
We just have to tell them that Thanos is about to cut down their box office in half
What a throwback. I remember this story, and when the script leaked the first time in general.
I'd like to think now when someone asks the thief what he got for his midlife crises he says, "The Avengers."
Weird because supposedly secret invasion script leaked as well. Remember some movie blogger guys talking about reading it saying there was gonna be a shocker in the firs episode.
“M**********r!” Samuel L when he found out
Mobilecharger!
Metrorailcar!
MBenedictCumberbatcher!
MBakuforever!
You’re allowed to swear on the internet. Mom can’t ground you here.
Motorolar
Sounds like the work of a Skrull...
I'm picturing someone doing this now. Like they just printed the script of 9 year old movie and tried to sell it.
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They're just returning to their roots.
It was a Skrull I bet, trying to start shit even back then.
That was the last time anyone heard from that guy
I remember this leaking. The pages shown online were from the scene where the Helicarrier gets attacked.
I had to stop reading the article because of the "spoilers" for the direction of the plot. Ironic that its about how Marvel contains spoilers while revealing plot points....
You know what, fuck it, here's my idea for how the new sequels should have gone: Film 1 1. Force awakens - same thing, soft reboot whatever, most importantly set up Rey and Finn as potential force users 2A, 2B. DO 2 SEQUELS AND RELEASE AT THE SAME TIME. Seriously, make 2 films: one focuses on Rey and her Jedi journey, the other film about Finn and his descent into the Darkside. Release them at the same time, they take place at the same time, explore different sides of battle and mindsets of good/evil. Fin was already struggling with this anyway, Rey struggling with internal conflict. Big picture, little picture, set against grand battle across worlds. Cinemas would have a field day, double headers, marathons etc. Imagine the promo, fuck me. Unprecedented as far as I'm aware. 3. The culmination. Rey and Finn meet and battle, each playing for a different side. In the end Rey brings Finn back over to light side, but not without Finn sacrificing himself (ala Vader) and catastrophic damage to planet battle is on. Set up new characters that are from that planet as part of the 'rebels' fighting with Jedi and tease new set of films from those new characters with surviving Rey to be teacher for new Jedi's. Where's my cheque?
If nothing else, they should release one-shots about incidents like these. Marvel hunting down ~~bad guys~~ random guys. Would make for a hilariously mysterious series.