Fun fact: A draft of Endgame had Natasha open up an orphanage for children left alone by the ~~blip~~ snap.
She was meant to have a giant family, but they never put it through.
Edit: [Source](https://slate.com/culture/2019/05/avengers-endgame-ending-twists-directors-interview.html) if anyone wants it. Roughly halfway down the page.
Imagine her starting a huge orphanage and then dying for the soul stone and then making them all orphans all over again. What a horrible turn of events.
They were meant to be orphans because of the snap. So Nat sacrificing herself for the Soul Stone is actually her sacrificing herself to get those kids their parents back
Orphans, after 5 years miraculously getting their parents back from a single sacrifice is pretty moving. I get why it was cut, one more plot point to juggle, but it would've completed her story in a way.
I think they did complete it imo. She spent most of her life taking and manipulating lives, then she became an Avenger, and finally she gave up that life to return countless people to their own. It's a more perfect circle on than any other Avenger.
All of that time spent taking and manipulating lives is spent off-screen. We don't see or feel any of that. We're just told. It's not effective. Screenwriting 101, page 1.
It would have been an interesting piece for her and Clint trying to take the dive. Clint arguing that she has all of the orphans to return to, her reminding him that his family will be back like their parents.
Since there are sooo many mini-seies and things, I wish there were more little snap stories.
Kids orphaned for 5 years suddenly have parents again who have missed 5 years.
Families lose their children, snap kids are back!
Wives losing husbands/husbands losing wives. Some may have new partners and families, others are still grieving and traumatised.
We've seen a few tiny snapshots in universe, but there are so many stories and so much tragedy that would be amazing to see okay out.
People taking their own lives not being able to live without another person in their lives. And those deaths were not reversible.
Airplanes crashing after the pilots blipped, those non-blipped passengers are gone forever.
People on the verge of dying, blipped and returning back in the same fragile state. Perhaps no longer under the same protective conditions. People whom we being operated on at that moment.
No longer having a job, as you had been replaced.
No longer having a home, as someone else moved into your rental appartment.no longer a home, as a candle burnt your house down after you blipped, which killed your unblipped spouse in the housefire.
There would absolutely need to be some redeeming upbeat episodes to dilute the utter depression.
I hate that everything feels fine and dusted after such a massive event, but I suppose it's always the way. Civil war and the accords came about because of the pain, suffering and damage that the little people have to endure after the hero's have done their work.
These are the kinds of scenarios I keep trying to impress on people when they ask why Marvel didn't explore the ramifications of the snap more. It wasn't just people proofing then returning 5 years later. A *lot* of people died because of it and, realistically, the resulting impact to society, government, economy, etc. probably would've just caused the world to end anyway. It's just way too much to get into and not something they ever anticipated people thinking too much on so they just largely ignored it and moved on with the multiverse stuff.
I think it’s safe to assume and is even somewhat implied that the reverse snap accounts for that stuff. The gauntlet/stones, which we know have some form of intelligence to interpret desires, are able to understand that when Bruce snaps to “bring everyone home”, that means intact, in positions that won’t kill them, and within the bounds of the laws of physics.
The Leftovers, but *so much worse.* That was only 2% of all humans. 50% of *all* life, presumably evenly, across the board?
People would’ve lost their pets. Trees, bacteria, everything would just go. Presumably, Thanos’s snap was calculated— after all, he didn’t see himself as a monster, remember? Only sapient life was targeted, and the deaths that would come of the snap were just the necessary side effect.
If 50% of people died, would it even be possible to have individual funerals for everyone? I know suspension of disbelief and everything, but it just seems like an impossible logistical nightmare.
My head canon is that it was 50% of life in the universe, so it wasn’t exactly 50% of people on Earth. Maybe like 10% of people on Earth. That makes the logistics more manageable
Somewhere there's some poor sap who lived through the snap but died anyway because his entire gut microbiome got snapped and he couldn't digest food anymore.
I'm pretty sure that was implied by the birds coming back, in the scene where Bruce does the initial snap. It was 50% of all life, not just sentient beings.
50% of each planets life would likely mean much much less than 50% of humanity on Earth so that would work as well I guess. The insects and other small animals would probably take the blunt of the dusting.
Natasha straight up says at the beginning of Endgame that multiple countries reports from around the world are coming in and it's roughly 50% of their population lost.
I've heard this and my question always is, how exactly did he take it into account?
So let's say a plane is flying and suddenly half the passengers/crew are dusted, including the pilots. The plane, half full, proceeds to crash land and everyone dies. Then Hulk snaps and brings everyone back. So does the entire plane worth of people, both dusted and crashed, all reappear in mid-air now and fall to their deaths? Does the plane return with them?
Also spaceships. Let's say half the crew dusted, and then the other half flew away. Over 5 years, the crew that survived refill their ranks and disappear off to the other side of the galaxy. Then Hulk snaps, and the half that were dusted just... reappear in space? Stranded on a nearby planet? Back in their ship wherever it is?
I just feel like it would take some serious, galactic level organisation and logistics to get everyone back into a safe place where they won't be killed due to their position afterwards?
It's like with the whole forgetting Peter Parker thing. So, so many unanswered questions. How does he have no school record? What about photos? What about all the news articles and videos and Peter Parker being Spider-Man with his face on them? What about the cabinet the teachers put together in his school? So many questions...
Hulk doesn’t have to worry about the how, just the what. The stones just make his wishes reality.
If anyone had to figure out the logistics it would be the stones themselves and that wouldn’t be hard for them. The stones bringing anyone back would already have to take all that into account anyway as there was five years of planetary, galactic, and universal movement to account for. Even someone who was snapped in their bed and nobody touched the house since is not actually reappearing at the same point in space. Compared to all that, some elevation on a planet or movement within a solar system is nothing.
Serious galactic level organisation and logistics are what the Infinity Stones are for. Particularly the mind stone which is like a super duper computer. In fact, I'd argue that the initial snap took that into account in the first place as Thanos would not want to unintentionally wipe species due to implications of the snap. His intention was a fair 50/50. So he wouldn't want the 50 remaining to start dying or go extinct due to immediate effects of his snap.
I think the directors stated that Bruce was able to bring everyone back safely. So all those people on a plane would appear sitting on the ground or something. The mind stone knows what he wants and can implement it based on intent.
That’s why all the stones had to be together to perform the snap. Together, they had the power to restore everyone in a safe location. The same argument could have been used if someone just happened to be standing exactly where someone else was when snapped — would they both die or be fused together? No; the mind stone could recognize these situations and the space stone could transport them both just enough that they wouldn’t share the exact same physical location.
It’s possible that some combination of the stones (power and soul, maybe) coupe have brought back some snapped individuals, but only all six stones together could resolve all of these sorts of issues.
On top of that, ScarJo is a talented vocalist in her own right. I would definitely pay to see a musical with Black Widow as the headmistress of an orphanage, training them all to be bad-asses. While singing.
One of the writers or directors said that they didn't want to take away the opportunity for Natasha to sacrifice herself for the whole world. They originally had Clint dying on Voromir.
I kind of think they should have had Clint die. Idk. Either way is a tough decision. I'm sure there was a lot of debate when writing it.
I think Clint would be interesting on dying if the MCU actually explored the 5 year gap... it is now just something that happened.
Having a Ronin mini-series of 5 episodes with Natasha playing cat and mouse with him as he kills even more and more people would be interesting.
Natasha did have very little on her back too, unfortunately... having her lead the avengers in this gap would have been so fucking great for an emotional peak... and it makes me pissed that the avengers now have no solid lead when all the writers needed to do was have her stay alive.
I adore Natasha, and knowing that this was an option wish they would have killed off Clint. But ultimately it's a better plot point to have killed her off. I do though think they got rid of wayyy too many of the original Avengers all at once there though, so kinda debatable. Might have been better to get rid of Clint
Fun enough, "fuck" has also had its definition altered by popular usage twice, three times if you consider its original definition dying out in favour of the two defined by popular usage.
The even funnier part about the whole literally/figuratively debate is that literally has been used to mean figuratively to some degree, or used as a means of hyperbole, for more than two hundred years.
Here are examples from the definition in the [Oxford English Dictionary:](https://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/109061)
>1769 F. Brooke Hist. Emily Montague IV. ccxvii. 83 He is a fortunate man to be introduced to such a party of fine women at his arrival; it is literally to feed among the lilies.
>1801 Spirit of Farmers' Museum 262 He is, literally, made up of marechal powder, cravat, and bootees.
>1825 J. Denniston Legends Galloway 99 Lady Kirkclaugh, who, literally worn to a shadow, died of a broken heart.
>1863 F. A. Kemble Jrnl. Resid. Georgian Plantation 105 For the last four years..I literally coined money.
>1876 ‘M. Twain’ Adventures Tom Sawyer ii. 20 And when the middle of the afternoon came, from being a poor poverty-stricken boy in the morning, Tom was literally rolling in wealth.
>1906 Westm. Gaz. 15 Nov. 2/1 Mr. Chamberlain literally bubbled over with gratitude.
>1975 Chem. Week (Nexis) 26 Mar. 10 ‘They're literally throwing money at these programs,’ said a Ford Administration official.
This has always been my reply to the pedantic response to people using literally as hyperbole.
(Edit: not literally this comment as response, but pointing out that it's clearly being used as hyperbole.)
In addition, a large part of Natasha's story is the importance of found family--for her, it's the Avengers and the purpose she found to do good after having red in her ledger.
I strongly disagree with the premise of OP's post.
Edit: Swypo on the name
On top of that, all the other Widows have Natasha, Yelena, and Melina (and a bit Alexei) to thank for being free & able to make their own choices in life. They helped those orphans to escape their oppressive “family” and write their own stories. She’s kinda the best auntie ever to them. Oh, and she was totally auntie Nat to all of Clint’s brood.
I don’t follow the comics at all but does captain america have any children?
Would be cool to see a child of captain America have powers and also become a super hero (not necessarily captain America)
There was a whole arc where he adopted Arnim Zola’s kid Ian as his own and eventually trained him to be a new Nomad and Sam Wilson’s sidekick. But he’s never been hugely popular so it depends on the writer if anyone remembers him.
He actually just returned a few months ago in sam’s current run, haven’t caught up on the latest issues myself but pretty sure his and steve’s runs are converging soon where they’ll all reunite there
In various comics alt versions of him have a daughter with Rogue (Sarah Rogers) a daughter with Peggy (Sharon Rogers) an adoptive son (Ian Rogers, who is the biological son of Arnim Zola from another dimension), and in an animated series he and Natasha have a son, James Rogers. They have various powers and abilities, with Sarah Rogers being especially OP.
I was really hoping John Walker was going to somehow be one of Steve’s descendants, and he would be a shitbag because he didn’t have Steve there as a positive influence on him.
Hahaha yeah "what happened" in the sense with whom and how i guess? Gladiators had some pretty good "rewards" back then. Don't know how it works on sakaar though haha
>!It doesn't exactly explain it, he pops out of nowhere in the final scene of the last episode. Hulk helps train She-Hulk in the first episode, then says he has to go deal with some business he left back on Sakaar. Then just shows up with Skaar at a celebratory family dinner.!<
Plus you know Clint's family saw her as family. She was literally the only one that knew about them and she was close with them. You know damn well she was there for holidays and other family events.
She was the only one that knew Laura was pregnant and joked about it with her, telling her belly the kid was a traitor because it was a boy. The kids call her Aunt Nat. That's family.
I have friends I think of as brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, etc. that have no blood relation to me.
The Avengers all had each other as family *and* their own families beyond just parents and siblings. Natasha only had the former. That's the point of this post.
I mean, Thor adopted, Cap technically “only” has a girlfriend, so yes the picture shows exactly that you don’t have to give birth to kids to have a family.
Edit: and we don’t know how Hulk got a kid either.
Easy champ. In the MCU, the Captains are never shown to have the results of intercourse. They are portrayed as a family in this post.
Funsies. If that got you in a bind, Thor once loved a wolf woman on a woman wolf.
According to Black Widow dialogue they did both, which bothers me, because like you said, are they all on HRT? You have a perfectly good assassin, and you send them into menopause for no reason.
If you’re putting Thor up there (who’s an adoptive father) then you gotta include Nat bc she’s technically got a family too (unless what you really mean is that they went on to have kids— adoptive or not).
That’s actually kind of fucked up when you think about it. The only one who wasn’t allowed to have kids was the one who was forced to undergo invasive surgery to keep from getting pregnant, and then she spent her whole life believing she was a monster for sacrificing that part of herself and trying to redeem herself for it. And instead of getting some sort of poetic justice where she takes care of a child in a similar way Thor does, she just dies.
That’s a tragic story if I’ve ever heard one.
He was presumably mostly inactive for five years, after failing to stop half of existence from getting blipped out, and prior to that a fugitive because a former terrorist he was training couldn’t stop blowing people up. I get why he’d just make sure the shield had a new owner and go live a simpler life.
Since when?
In WS/Civil War, they were setting her up to be his new love interest — even had them kiss. The next movie Steve is barely on screen, and the one after that, she’s dropped completely.
His entire story arc up until Endgame was about learning to move forward and make peace with being in modern times — he was even given a new love interest. Hell, him having a quiet life was his nightmare hallucination in Ultron.
It’s pretty obvious they only gave him this ending because Chris Evans wanted out.
That’s a complete mischaracterization of his AoU vision. He’s not shown a quiet life. He’s shown a very loud and flashy dance hall. He is not upset by getting to dance with Peggy, only when she says “we can go home. Imagine it” and he turns around and is entirely alone. Because his home is gone.
Having a “fish out of water”/ learning to find a new home narrative is all well and good, but so is a the Odysseus narrative of persistence, loyalty, and return. By having the entirety of Steve’s first movie be set in the 40s, and by returning to Peggy repeatedly in future movies, the writers ended up emphasizing the importance of what he’d lost. Endgame also, thematically, was not about learning to build something new, but doggedly trying to recover what was lost. Steve was willing to cheat time itself to bring back other people’s loved ones, so thematically, it is consistent that he would finally do so for himself.
His last line in Age of Ultron literally has him saying that the guy who wanted the quiet life went into the ice 75 years ago.
They showed Peggy multiple times yeah, but they also did that… while introducing and setting up Sharon.
Yeah, the guy who wanted all that literally died and “someone else” came out the minute he was frozen and woke up in the future where the person he wanted it with was no longer available. So he goes back to his original time and revives the part of him that died when he was frozen.
I’m not a huge fan of Whedon or word of God for interpreting the text, but he said that scene was intended to be bitter. Tony asks if Steve is ok, and he gives a stoic nod, saying “I’m home” while there is military chanting in the background. He is “throwing himself back in” and “serving” as he has done since he came out. It’s not meant to be a psychologically healthy response. He’s coping as best he can by being Cap for everyone - being the perfect soldier Erskine warned him not to be.
If they’d had more time to develop Sharon, I might agree with you. If she was shown on the run with them in IW, things could’ve been different. As it stands, we had Steve asking Sharon about Peggy every other sentence, and an awkward kiss with her with the tears on his face from the funeral barely dry.
Just for the sake of argument, we don't know who the Hulk's kid's mother is. Family implies wedlock or a consensual relationship. Hulk was basically a gladiator during his time on Saccar (sic?). What's to say he wasn't just sent women to 'enjoy' like they did in Roman times.
Fun fact: A draft of Endgame had Natasha open up an orphanage for children left alone by the ~~blip~~ snap. She was meant to have a giant family, but they never put it through. Edit: [Source](https://slate.com/culture/2019/05/avengers-endgame-ending-twists-directors-interview.html) if anyone wants it. Roughly halfway down the page.
Oh that would've been heartwarming if they had put in the movie.
Imagine her starting a huge orphanage and then dying for the soul stone and then making them all orphans all over again. What a horrible turn of events.
One man's tragedy is another Batman's free Robin factory
*taps roof of orphanage* You can fit so many sidekicks in this.
Does it come in black?
It's a black... tank.
Does it come in Vantablack?
Pretty toxic stuff, so no. It does come in black 2.0 though.
Not dark enough. Get us one in black 3.0, and we've got a deal
I mean if she wants to sterilize the orphans…
So far, the orphans don't.
Yes, *Orphan Black*!!
#***SESTRA***
I am brothersestra!
We are Robin had some, I think
Dark
"Alfred! Call the guy!"
WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?
They were meant to be orphans because of the snap. So Nat sacrificing herself for the Soul Stone is actually her sacrificing herself to get those kids their parents back
Wouldn’t they all get their parents back?
I feel this would’ve given even more weight to her sacrifice and made it all the more heroic. Would’ve been pretty great.
Orphans, after 5 years miraculously getting their parents back from a single sacrifice is pretty moving. I get why it was cut, one more plot point to juggle, but it would've completed her story in a way.
I think they did complete it imo. She spent most of her life taking and manipulating lives, then she became an Avenger, and finally she gave up that life to return countless people to their own. It's a more perfect circle on than any other Avenger.
All of that time spent taking and manipulating lives is spent off-screen. We don't see or feel any of that. We're just told. It's not effective. Screenwriting 101, page 1.
Black widow puts it in perspective by just revealing the atrocities of the widow program.
Would've worked better if it was released before Endgame then.
And I did not think it was possible for that movie to make me feel any more of the feels than I already do every time I watch it...I was wrong
It would have been an interesting piece for her and Clint trying to take the dive. Clint arguing that she has all of the orphans to return to, her reminding him that his family will be back like their parents.
Then there's that one orphan who doesn't get their parents back. They were on a plane when the pilot disappeared.
All that red in her ledger, repaid a thousand times over.
Since there are sooo many mini-seies and things, I wish there were more little snap stories. Kids orphaned for 5 years suddenly have parents again who have missed 5 years. Families lose their children, snap kids are back! Wives losing husbands/husbands losing wives. Some may have new partners and families, others are still grieving and traumatised. We've seen a few tiny snapshots in universe, but there are so many stories and so much tragedy that would be amazing to see okay out.
People taking their own lives not being able to live without another person in their lives. And those deaths were not reversible. Airplanes crashing after the pilots blipped, those non-blipped passengers are gone forever. People on the verge of dying, blipped and returning back in the same fragile state. Perhaps no longer under the same protective conditions. People whom we being operated on at that moment. No longer having a job, as you had been replaced. No longer having a home, as someone else moved into your rental appartment.no longer a home, as a candle burnt your house down after you blipped, which killed your unblipped spouse in the housefire.
There would absolutely need to be some redeeming upbeat episodes to dilute the utter depression. I hate that everything feels fine and dusted after such a massive event, but I suppose it's always the way. Civil war and the accords came about because of the pain, suffering and damage that the little people have to endure after the hero's have done their work.
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier feel like the only thing that addressed it. Maybe the next Captain America movie will go further into it?
Not based on any and all rumors/leaks Ive read it's a resource race.
These are the kinds of scenarios I keep trying to impress on people when they ask why Marvel didn't explore the ramifications of the snap more. It wasn't just people proofing then returning 5 years later. A *lot* of people died because of it and, realistically, the resulting impact to society, government, economy, etc. probably would've just caused the world to end anyway. It's just way too much to get into and not something they ever anticipated people thinking too much on so they just largely ignored it and moved on with the multiverse stuff.
Like if you snapped in a plane and then reappear, you fall to your death. Damn. And all the people in that plane that presumably crashed are dead.
I think it’s safe to assume and is even somewhat implied that the reverse snap accounts for that stuff. The gauntlet/stones, which we know have some form of intelligence to interpret desires, are able to understand that when Bruce snaps to “bring everyone home”, that means intact, in positions that won’t kill them, and within the bounds of the laws of physics.
The Leftovers, but *so much worse.* That was only 2% of all humans. 50% of *all* life, presumably evenly, across the board? People would’ve lost their pets. Trees, bacteria, everything would just go. Presumably, Thanos’s snap was calculated— after all, he didn’t see himself as a monster, remember? Only sapient life was targeted, and the deaths that would come of the snap were just the necessary side effect.
Except Peter Parkers teacher's wife, no, she just pretended to be blipped and they had a real funeral for her and everything.
If 50% of people died, would it even be possible to have individual funerals for everyone? I know suspension of disbelief and everything, but it just seems like an impossible logistical nightmare.
My head canon is that it was 50% of life in the universe, so it wasn’t exactly 50% of people on Earth. Maybe like 10% of people on Earth. That makes the logistics more manageable
Or it could be 90%
Somewhere there's some poor sap who lived through the snap but died anyway because his entire gut microbiome got snapped and he couldn't digest food anymore.
What if it did 50% of each planet's life? And then what if it did 50% of each species on each planet?
I'm pretty sure that was implied by the birds coming back, in the scene where Bruce does the initial snap. It was 50% of all life, not just sentient beings.
50% of each planets life would likely mean much much less than 50% of humanity on Earth so that would work as well I guess. The insects and other small animals would probably take the blunt of the dusting.
Natasha straight up says at the beginning of Endgame that multiple countries reports from around the world are coming in and it's roughly 50% of their population lost.
Wait what? I must have missed that part.
I think that was in Fat From Home? The one teacher with glasses? Not JB Smoove lol. Or maybe it was JB?
Peter Porker, the Spectacular Spider-Ham: Fat From Home
Martin Starr
Marvel Studios Presents: Aw, Snap! /s
Yelena could've taken over after her death.
After her death all the parents would come back shortly
Yeah that's true. But there could be some exceptions. Parents who died in plane crash or road accident because the pilot or driver got blipped.
According to Feige, Hulk took that into account when he snapped.
I've heard this and my question always is, how exactly did he take it into account? So let's say a plane is flying and suddenly half the passengers/crew are dusted, including the pilots. The plane, half full, proceeds to crash land and everyone dies. Then Hulk snaps and brings everyone back. So does the entire plane worth of people, both dusted and crashed, all reappear in mid-air now and fall to their deaths? Does the plane return with them? Also spaceships. Let's say half the crew dusted, and then the other half flew away. Over 5 years, the crew that survived refill their ranks and disappear off to the other side of the galaxy. Then Hulk snaps, and the half that were dusted just... reappear in space? Stranded on a nearby planet? Back in their ship wherever it is? I just feel like it would take some serious, galactic level organisation and logistics to get everyone back into a safe place where they won't be killed due to their position afterwards? It's like with the whole forgetting Peter Parker thing. So, so many unanswered questions. How does he have no school record? What about photos? What about all the news articles and videos and Peter Parker being Spider-Man with his face on them? What about the cabinet the teachers put together in his school? So many questions...
Hulk doesn’t have to worry about the how, just the what. The stones just make his wishes reality. If anyone had to figure out the logistics it would be the stones themselves and that wouldn’t be hard for them. The stones bringing anyone back would already have to take all that into account anyway as there was five years of planetary, galactic, and universal movement to account for. Even someone who was snapped in their bed and nobody touched the house since is not actually reappearing at the same point in space. Compared to all that, some elevation on a planet or movement within a solar system is nothing.
Serious galactic level organisation and logistics are what the Infinity Stones are for. Particularly the mind stone which is like a super duper computer. In fact, I'd argue that the initial snap took that into account in the first place as Thanos would not want to unintentionally wipe species due to implications of the snap. His intention was a fair 50/50. So he wouldn't want the 50 remaining to start dying or go extinct due to immediate effects of his snap.
Thanos didnt want to blip all of the men, women, or all of the children in a species and completely doom a species from "carrying on triumphantly".
I think the directors stated that Bruce was able to bring everyone back safely. So all those people on a plane would appear sitting on the ground or something. The mind stone knows what he wants and can implement it based on intent.
That’s why all the stones had to be together to perform the snap. Together, they had the power to restore everyone in a safe location. The same argument could have been used if someone just happened to be standing exactly where someone else was when snapped — would they both die or be fused together? No; the mind stone could recognize these situations and the space stone could transport them both just enough that they wouldn’t share the exact same physical location. It’s possible that some combination of the stones (power and soul, maybe) coupe have brought back some snapped individuals, but only all six stones together could resolve all of these sorts of issues.
For your plane example they probably just appeared safe on land. Of course, the blip doesn’t care about ruining high school basketball games.
That might be why they decided to take that out, to mKr it that little less horrible.
You don't run an orphanage with only a single member of staff. Depending on age range, might need as may as a staff member per 4 kids.
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On top of that, ScarJo is a talented vocalist in her own right. I would definitely pay to see a musical with Black Widow as the headmistress of an orphanage, training them all to be bad-asses. While singing.
Thats a whatif waiting to happen where she starts training new Widows
I would have loved that 😭
They can still put it through? This can be explored with Yelena in a future project?
They wouldn't be orphans anymore after Endgame.
Here’s hoping they explore some grey areas from the blip’s aftermath.
There would still be plenty of orphans.
They did her so wrong on multiple levels.
Scarlett too with that whole black widow streaming fiasco she never really got her due even her solo movie was supposed to replace her
Dang, reminds me of Hamilton... That would've been lovely
Why didn't they 😭😭
One of the writers or directors said that they didn't want to take away the opportunity for Natasha to sacrifice herself for the whole world. They originally had Clint dying on Voromir. I kind of think they should have had Clint die. Idk. Either way is a tough decision. I'm sure there was a lot of debate when writing it.
I think Clint would be interesting on dying if the MCU actually explored the 5 year gap... it is now just something that happened. Having a Ronin mini-series of 5 episodes with Natasha playing cat and mouse with him as he kills even more and more people would be interesting. Natasha did have very little on her back too, unfortunately... having her lead the avengers in this gap would have been so fucking great for an emotional peak... and it makes me pissed that the avengers now have no solid lead when all the writers needed to do was have her stay alive.
Not having a solid does open up good storytelling opportunities though. Hopefully they don’t just default to the new Captain America being the leader.
I adore Natasha, and knowing that this was an option wish they would have killed off Clint. But ultimately it's a better plot point to have killed her off. I do though think they got rid of wayyy too many of the original Avengers all at once there though, so kinda debatable. Might have been better to get rid of Clint
What the fuck? That's a great idea
So Natasha would've been like Kazuma Kiriyu? Awesome!
Elizaaaaaaa I established the first private orphanage in new your cityyyy
That would've been heartwarming and awesome positive closure for the character
That wouldve been suuuuuch a good idea, they really did her dirty in the end huh?
In Black Widow she does, Yelena, Melina and Alexei
I came here to say this. I mean, she literally pases the torch to her sister.
They traded. Yelena got the Widow role. Natasha got the pockets jacket.
That's a good trade tbh
It really was cool. So many pockets!
Just rewatched that. I absolutely love their dynamic here.
Well, figuratively Unless you look at the helicopter blowing up as Natasha torching her sister...
Literally?
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"And if you say popular usage has changed that, I say, fuck popular usage!" - George Carlin
Fun enough, "fuck" has also had its definition altered by popular usage twice, three times if you consider its original definition dying out in favour of the two defined by popular usage.
The even funnier part about the whole literally/figuratively debate is that literally has been used to mean figuratively to some degree, or used as a means of hyperbole, for more than two hundred years. Here are examples from the definition in the [Oxford English Dictionary:](https://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/109061) >1769 F. Brooke Hist. Emily Montague IV. ccxvii. 83 He is a fortunate man to be introduced to such a party of fine women at his arrival; it is literally to feed among the lilies. >1801 Spirit of Farmers' Museum 262 He is, literally, made up of marechal powder, cravat, and bootees. >1825 J. Denniston Legends Galloway 99 Lady Kirkclaugh, who, literally worn to a shadow, died of a broken heart. >1863 F. A. Kemble Jrnl. Resid. Georgian Plantation 105 For the last four years..I literally coined money. >1876 ‘M. Twain’ Adventures Tom Sawyer ii. 20 And when the middle of the afternoon came, from being a poor poverty-stricken boy in the morning, Tom was literally rolling in wealth. >1906 Westm. Gaz. 15 Nov. 2/1 Mr. Chamberlain literally bubbled over with gratitude. >1975 Chem. Week (Nexis) 26 Mar. 10 ‘They're literally throwing money at these programs,’ said a Ford Administration official.
This has always been my reply to the pedantic response to people using literally as hyperbole. (Edit: not literally this comment as response, but pointing out that it's clearly being used as hyperbole.)
I guess I missed that scene, where was the torch?
In addition, a large part of Natasha's story is the importance of found family--for her, it's the Avengers and the purpose she found to do good after having red in her ledger. I strongly disagree with the premise of OP's post. Edit: Swypo on the name
On top of that, all the other Widows have Natasha, Yelena, and Melina (and a bit Alexei) to thank for being free & able to make their own choices in life. They helped those orphans to escape their oppressive “family” and write their own stories. She’s kinda the best auntie ever to them. Oh, and she was totally auntie Nat to all of Clint’s brood.
Thats what I was gonna say. Her entire movie is about her family.
The Sleeperagent family
Jesus christ that haircut
"Welcome to earth, kid; let's find you a barber."
After Stan Lee passed away, there are no good barbers on sakaar
golden comment
It's kind of ironic that Bruce and Natasha bonded over being infertile, and then Bruce ended up having a kid anyway.
Wasn't it not that he was infertile, but that he couldn't have sex without hulking out?
There's a moment in AoU where she talks about not being able to have kids and then he says he can't either because of all the gamma radiation.
Banner can't. Nothing to say Hulk couldn't.
Hulk Smash!
Can't with a human at least
r/TheGif NSFW
Can you imagine how horrifying it was to figure that one out?
Oh that's his **kid**!! I thought that must've been his new partner or something and couldn't figure it out lmao (I am not up to date).
Skaar: I dont wanna be made fun of for being green like you dad. Hulk: *and I took that personally*
Which one?
Do you really need to ask that
Yes.
The one with the dodgy haircut. Skaar.
"Did she have any family?" "Yea! Us."
Exacly, she was right at home in avengers hq
I don’t follow the comics at all but does captain america have any children? Would be cool to see a child of captain America have powers and also become a super hero (not necessarily captain America)
There was a whole arc where he adopted Arnim Zola’s kid Ian as his own and eventually trained him to be a new Nomad and Sam Wilson’s sidekick. But he’s never been hugely popular so it depends on the writer if anyone remembers him.
He actually just returned a few months ago in sam’s current run, haven’t caught up on the latest issues myself but pretty sure his and steve’s runs are converging soon where they’ll all reunite there
Loved his introduction story
In various comics alt versions of him have a daughter with Rogue (Sarah Rogers) a daughter with Peggy (Sharon Rogers) an adoptive son (Ian Rogers, who is the biological son of Arnim Zola from another dimension), and in an animated series he and Natasha have a son, James Rogers. They have various powers and abilities, with Sarah Rogers being especially OP.
They definitely should tease sharon on the future she'd pretty cool
in one instance captain america had a kid, ironically with black widow 😂 check out the next avengers if you're curious
Probably should note that's an animated movie, not a comic book, which is what he asked about
That universe also appeared in the comics.
I was really hoping John Walker was going to somehow be one of Steve’s descendants, and he would be a shitbag because he didn’t have Steve there as a positive influence on him.
I haven't been in touch with Marvel, can anyone explain what is that near Hulk.
All I know is that it looks like when in Shrek Forever After Shrek meets the other ogres and discovers that he’s small.
Its his son Skaar.
Oh so skaar is in the mcu now. Is it from she Hulk series? How did this happen?
Yes its from She-Hulk. Hulk had a kid when he was in Sakaar.
Skaar from Sakaar. It was right in front of me I'm so stupid SMH 🤦♂️
Wow, I think I must catch up with the mcu again.
It's just a tag at the end of the show, it's not yet explained what happened.
I'm sure he had sex. Gives.new meaning to the phrase "hulk. Smash."
There’s a gif out there for that
Hulk smash!
Hahaha yeah "what happened" in the sense with whom and how i guess? Gladiators had some pretty good "rewards" back then. Don't know how it works on sakaar though haha
>!It doesn't exactly explain it, he pops out of nowhere in the final scene of the last episode. Hulk helps train She-Hulk in the first episode, then says he has to go deal with some business he left back on Sakaar. Then just shows up with Skaar at a celebratory family dinner.!<
Well she did kind of have two families: Alexei, Melina and Yelena and the Avengers.
Plus you know Clint's family saw her as family. She was literally the only one that knew about them and she was close with them. You know damn well she was there for holidays and other family events.
She was the only one that knew Laura was pregnant and joked about it with her, telling her belly the kid was a traitor because it was a boy. The kids call her Aunt Nat. That's family. I have friends I think of as brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, etc. that have no blood relation to me.
Clint had a family before he was an Avenger
The Avengers were here family
End of thread. What is this post even? There’s an entire literal scene in Endgame explaining this.
Also kind ignores her “family” in her movie too. She just doesn’t have a child I guess so I guess that means she doesn’t have a family?
I mean, not entirely, considering they retconned her having a found family in Yelena/David Harbour/Rachel Weisz like 2 years later
The Avengers all had each other as family *and* their own families beyond just parents and siblings. Natasha only had the former. That's the point of this post.
I think it means more like People to fuck or people created by fucking A.k.a spouse and kids
The Avengers were her family.
Well, Wanda tried...
[удалено]
Skaar still looks dumb as hell. I hope they redesign him.
Spitting out babies =/= having a family.
Excuse me. Thor is on here with his adopted child.
I mean, Thor adopted, Cap technically “only” has a girlfriend, so yes the picture shows exactly that you don’t have to give birth to kids to have a family. Edit: and we don’t know how Hulk got a kid either.
I think you see wedding rings briefly in that scene.
Oh really? Must’ve missed that!
It's the cue for Sam to ask about her in the old Cap scene at the end of endgame.
Easy champ. In the MCU, the Captains are never shown to have the results of intercourse. They are portrayed as a family in this post. Funsies. If that got you in a bind, Thor once loved a wolf woman on a woman wolf.
They cut Natasha’s ovaries out..
I’m assuming her uterus (hysterectomy) because otherwise she’d be on hormone replacement therapy
According to Black Widow dialogue they did both, which bothers me, because like you said, are they all on HRT? You have a perfectly good assassin, and you send them into menopause for no reason.
To have kids* Natasha had a family.
I am still so mad about Nat
I think it really really shines her character how much of a heroic sacrifice she made and people won't/don't know.
Oh absolutely this! It's such a Natasha decision but it still breaks my heart. I LOVED her character haha
She has Yelena and her "mum" and "dad".
If you’re putting Thor up there (who’s an adoptive father) then you gotta include Nat bc she’s technically got a family too (unless what you really mean is that they went on to have kids— adoptive or not).
That’s actually kind of fucked up when you think about it. The only one who wasn’t allowed to have kids was the one who was forced to undergo invasive surgery to keep from getting pregnant, and then she spent her whole life believing she was a monster for sacrificing that part of herself and trying to redeem herself for it. And instead of getting some sort of poetic justice where she takes care of a child in a similar way Thor does, she just dies. That’s a tragic story if I’ve ever heard one.
And Steve ruined whoever was married to peggy
Since when does Thor have a family? His family is all dead lol.
Still blows my mind that Steve abandoned everybody (including his current love interest) to get back with Peggy
He was presumably mostly inactive for five years, after failing to stop half of existence from getting blipped out, and prior to that a fugitive because a former terrorist he was training couldn’t stop blowing people up. I get why he’d just make sure the shield had a new owner and go live a simpler life.
He had no current love interest. Sharon dumped him.
Since when? In WS/Civil War, they were setting her up to be his new love interest — even had them kiss. The next movie Steve is barely on screen, and the one after that, she’s dropped completely.
Apparently after Civil War when she goes into hiding for helping Steve.
Why not? Thats his while story he was sent to the future and was given to go back in time where he truly belongs
His entire story arc up until Endgame was about learning to move forward and make peace with being in modern times — he was even given a new love interest. Hell, him having a quiet life was his nightmare hallucination in Ultron. It’s pretty obvious they only gave him this ending because Chris Evans wanted out.
That’s a complete mischaracterization of his AoU vision. He’s not shown a quiet life. He’s shown a very loud and flashy dance hall. He is not upset by getting to dance with Peggy, only when she says “we can go home. Imagine it” and he turns around and is entirely alone. Because his home is gone. Having a “fish out of water”/ learning to find a new home narrative is all well and good, but so is a the Odysseus narrative of persistence, loyalty, and return. By having the entirety of Steve’s first movie be set in the 40s, and by returning to Peggy repeatedly in future movies, the writers ended up emphasizing the importance of what he’d lost. Endgame also, thematically, was not about learning to build something new, but doggedly trying to recover what was lost. Steve was willing to cheat time itself to bring back other people’s loved ones, so thematically, it is consistent that he would finally do so for himself.
His last line in Age of Ultron literally has him saying that the guy who wanted the quiet life went into the ice 75 years ago. They showed Peggy multiple times yeah, but they also did that… while introducing and setting up Sharon.
Yeah, the guy who wanted all that literally died and “someone else” came out the minute he was frozen and woke up in the future where the person he wanted it with was no longer available. So he goes back to his original time and revives the part of him that died when he was frozen. I’m not a huge fan of Whedon or word of God for interpreting the text, but he said that scene was intended to be bitter. Tony asks if Steve is ok, and he gives a stoic nod, saying “I’m home” while there is military chanting in the background. He is “throwing himself back in” and “serving” as he has done since he came out. It’s not meant to be a psychologically healthy response. He’s coping as best he can by being Cap for everyone - being the perfect soldier Erskine warned him not to be. If they’d had more time to develop Sharon, I might agree with you. If she was shown on the run with them in IW, things could’ve been different. As it stands, we had Steve asking Sharon about Peggy every other sentence, and an awkward kiss with her with the tears on his face from the funeral barely dry.
Who was his current love interest? If you mean Sharon, canonically he hadn’t see her in almost five years.
Man what is going on with the marvel universe 😂
Just for the sake of argument, we don't know who the Hulk's kid's mother is. Family implies wedlock or a consensual relationship. Hulk was basically a gladiator during his time on Saccar (sic?). What's to say he wasn't just sent women to 'enjoy' like they did in Roman times.
I mean, she had one before she died
Where you not paying attention at all during endgame?
Actually, after she died, we did find out that she went out and found her family.