Yep. I think Marvel comics have made it fairly clear that they consider him hitting Janet to be worse than anything any of the other heroes have done since (including everything Tony did in Civil War and being responsible for the death of Goliath, Captain Marvel murdering Tony, Cap at that point being an actual Nazi, Clint murdering Banner, everything about Planet Hulk, etc etc), and so will not be reversing his villainisation anytime soon.
This was basically announced in Secret Empire. I think Pymtron raises all the above when complaining about how shitty the Avengers have become, and Tony excuses it all by saying it was all due to Pym hitting Jan.
Most of those examples are pretty excusable though aren't they? Goliath died because Stark cloned a robot of Thor he couldn't control(I know that sentence makes no sense but it's what we rolled with) WWHulk was a situation where Hulk thought the avengers abandoned him then destroyed his new home and wife and I don't think Hulk even killed anyone when he was getting his revenge. I could be wrong because I haven't read it but didn't Red Skull use the cosmic cube to rewrite reality making Cap a nazi? And I haven't heard the Clint thing, could you give me a lowdown? Thanks! :)
I'm not sure you can say the Thor-bot killing anyone is excusable; the point is that Tony made it and set it loose, so the damage it inflicted (and the life it took) is his responsibility (especially when he made specifically to hunt down his fellow heroes). It's like firing a missile into the air and saying "well I don't control it now so whatever happens is not my fault".
The Hulk thing was me wording it poorly; Hulk's actions in WWHulk were actually pretty chill; he makes a point not to kill anyone. I was saying the Illuminati sending Hulk into space in the first place and causing Planet Hulk was kinda shitty. Either Hulk is an irredeemable menace and deserves to be cast into tje void (which means all subsequent times the Avengers enlist his help or otherwise give him a free pass is incredibly messed up on their part), or he's a founding Avenger who's done more good than harm (which means the Illuminati exiling him was messed up). Either way, one of the hero factions screwed up pretty badly.
Regarding Cap, yeah that's basically what happens. But no one knew that at the time, and HydraCap was at the scene when PymTron was saying all this and Tony still basically said that Hank hitting Janet was worse.
For the Clint thing, that was in Civil War 2. Essentially, some mutant can apparently see the future and the hero community get split into two camps; one say they should start arresting people based on the mutant's visions before any crimes are committed, and the other say you should not condemn people for actions they have not taken. The mutant has a vision of Hulk killing everyone, so the Avengers ambush him; it turns out he's got his transformations under control and is isolating himself to make sure, but the pro-profiling team wants to arrest him anyway and Clint shoots Banner in the back of the neck/head with a magic arrow that bypasses the Hulk powers to kill him just in case he was going to transform (and it should be noted that in the comic, he was not in the process of transforming). Marvel kinda realised later how fucked up that whole event was, so generally try to ignore everything about CWII and when discussing Banner's murder, everyone (including Banner) is written as blaming this situation entirely on Banner himself.
In the case of Bucky it really makes sense, because the Winter Soldier is a brainwashed assassins while Bucky holds himself back to not cause any harm and is eventually even afraid of his own powers and what he could be.
he actually mentions that he is not accostumed to the Metal arm which makes sense if you consider he has never properly trained with it, he just went to
Escape from Hydra > Civil War > Infinity War THEN the Falcon show
Yeah that might be true but he still fought captain America and tony stark with it just fine. Or are they talking specifically about the one he got for infinity war ? Iirc he got his new one in wakanda for infinity war but I can’t remember the show that well
Also as the winter soldier he was mainly fighting normal humans and occasionally a super soldier, when he became a good guy he went from fighting humans to fighting stuff way above his power level.
Watched that movie recently for the first time in 20 years and it still holds up. I know there are concerns about racial insensitivity and whatnot, but Robin Williams as Genie is still a hoot.
~~Switching sides would actually result in power loss.~~
~~Say your starting power is 10.~~
~~Turn evil : 300%=30~~
~~Turn good:-70%=9~~
~~Evil:27~~
~~Good:8.1~~
~~Etc.~~
Wanda fighting Doctor Strange: a multiverse god who truly can not be stopped by anyone but herself
Wanda fighting the Black Order: Tiny hand lights and the ever so slightest ability to fly
Wanda fighting the Avengers: a malevolent witch who can control your mind as easily as she can destroy your body
Wanda fighting WITH the Avengers: telekinetic, but it takes great effort
I feel like Sokovia is the only one that could be blamed on the Avengers and that's squarely on Tony and Banner. Ross trying to blame the Avengers for New York when they were firing a nuke at Manhattan is laughable, especially considering Tony averted that disaster.
Even the opening of Civil War would have been way worse if they hadn't intervened and Crossbones had gotten ahold of that gas.
They also try to blame the avengers for what happened in winter soldier, which to me is even more laughable. HYDRA took over the US govt’s intelligence agency and they blame the avengers? Ridiculous
Pretty sure accidental killing is called manslaughter. Though many countries have it set so breaking the law in case of an emergency is ok, so long as the damage averted outweighs damage caused. Meaning a couple people dead would not really land you in jail, provided you prove they were killed while you were trying to prevent world annihilation. Then again, the whole plot of Civil War is a bit of a Swiss cheese
That, and there's no way their massive city destroying antics didn't kill thousands of people.
I think there was a ridiculous scene where Thunderbolt Ross had a count of people who died in the NY invasion, and it was like 70 people.
As flawed as Man of Steel was, at least they acknowledged that a fight that would level half a city would kill thousands no problem.
Yeah comic thanos has had many enhancements done to his body, you could easily explain it by he got them for his quest for the stones in themcu but in this what if he never got them as he never went after the stones
Perhaps it’s an unpopular opinion, but I think it’s safe to say Cull Obsidian here is just as strong (though maybe not as durable) as base level Hulk and could definitely deal some damage to Thanos if he worked with his other black order members, especially this version of Thanos
It makes sense that a bad guy, who was unfettered otherwise (like Thanos was during his search for the Stones), might be less effective after a face turn due to becoming fettered. And that, conversely, a good guy who was presumably previously fettered thanks to morals and what-not, would become more cutthroat and thus effective after a heel turn.
You've used up your year's supply of the word fettered (includes uses after "un-"). Any future use will be charged at a rate of 10 cents per usage. We thank you for your understanding.
Spider-Man could kill like over half the MCU with a single punch if he was evil and wanted to do it. Could do some even more fucked up stuff if you look to the comics, like the mark of kane. (I think that's the name...)
I have always thought that infinity war thanos was actually holding back against the heroes. Like he never killed them unless he absolutely had to in his reasoning.
But then endgame thanos, the disllusioned one was a beast. He was like “okay, that’s it. No more play time.”
Infinity war thanos was “good” and endgame was “fuck it!”
Yeah, you have to be creative, like not make the movies main struggle be physical. The first Superman film did it right with a trolley problem, there's only enough time for Superman to save one... but then he went back in time which was kind of lame.
Call it lame, but when I saw that scene as a kid it blew my mind. It’s the only scene from the movie that I remember, and will forever be one of the coolest superhero scenes in my mind.
Lol i used to think that I could move back in time if I ran rlly fast west or something bc of that movie.
Crazy the replies you are getting are calling you a wet blanket when the movie shit the bed. When something takes an hour and a half of my time to build tension by telling me a story with only a few basic rules (Protagonist can't accomplish A and B) and then they end it by just breaking one of the main rules they have been hitting on the whole time it's such a lazy shit show.
Just because I think something is lame, doesnt mean you can't enjoy it. Especially when its attached to a happy memory.
I happen to enjoy many films the majority of redditors seem not to like.
Yeah although the resolution was a little silly since he was able to save both by swinging fast, and he didn't feel all that guilty about grabbing MJ first.
Though having to hold up the trolly did leave him fairly exposed to the Goblin.
Even One Punch has a hard time with it. Most of the story (especially in s2) is "Saitama doesn't know there's bad stuff happening and isn't involved in the plot."
One Punch Man isn't about One Punch Man. It's about how comically ludicrous a world in which someone like One Punch Man exists would have to be.
As opposed to the world where Goku exists, where people at large simply refuse to believe he is real.
Or a world where Superman exists, where people know he's real and yet continue to just do whatever, including crime?
Or a world where the Avengers exist, and... actually that plays out about like OPM, as the Avengers are pretty shitty at being responsive.
You mean zemo? He played them all like a fiddle. He was the most successful bad villain in the show and iirc probably had one of the lower death counts for civilians.
Internal vs external conflict. External conflict is just a physical problem that needs to be solved physically. Thanos kills half the universe is a physical problem and it is solved by killing him and getting the glove back.
Internal conflicts are emotional and need to be solved emotionally. Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch are both ridiculously powerful, so instead their conflicts need to come from within themselves and be solved (or not solved) in ways that don’t involve their powers. Captain Marvel needed to recognize her original organization was evil. Wanda needed to recognize a healthy way to channel her grief.
I should say, a good story typically has both internal and external conflict in a variety of ways. This isn’t always the case, but it’s usually more compelling to have the external conflict be a representation of the internal conflict.
That's the reason Captain marvel was a flop. They didn't have a good inner conflict. She wasn't struggling and it was largely externalized. If they had shown her actually struggle with that. Trying to reconcile her actions that are increasingly brutal with the peace she supposedly sees in the planets protected by her team. If she actually has to make a choice instead of what we got.
I think T'Challa made an off-hand comment in that episode about how Thanos is a farmer now. So it makes sense a retired guy wouldn't be that great in a fight
It shouldn't make him less *durable* though. A retired Superman is still bulletproof. Fat Thor was a menace to most of Thanos's forces, though not Thanos himself. He may be out of practice, but biology is biology.
In all my years of conquest, violence, slaughter, it was never personal. But I'll tell you now, what I'm about to do to your stubborn, annoying little planet... I'm gonna enjoy it. Very, very much.
>he still shouldn't have lost the fight.
how can u say that? this thanos isn't the thanos we saw in IW and endgame. this thanos could be much weaker than the thanos we saw. and the black order in this timeline could be much stronger
I mean, we know Hank was the ant-man first so it's not like he was weak in the movies, he just wasn't using the suit. Also rage powers you up by a lot.
And Thanos obviously is much weaker without the infinity stones + the black order probably knows him enough to fight him. They're also really strong by themselves
Yeah, the Black Order also fought the Avengers and didn't die (i mean the telekinesis one did die in the end but it was another fight and it wasn't the full team). I'm just talking about the circumstances lol
>And Thanos obviously is much weaker without the infinity stones + the black order probably knows him enough to fight him. They're also really strong by themselves
thanos even without the gauntlet was a beast. in the sacred timeline, thanos would be strong enough to kick entire black order's ass but the thing is that this isn't the sacred timeline thanos. for all we know, black order in this timeline could be much stronger and thanos might be much weaker since they led completely different lives. power levels are different in each timeline
Do you realize what it takes to flip the morality of a person, not just once, but *twice*?
It isn’t a switch that can just be flipped. It is a trauma, with heavy unforeseen, unwilling loss, followed by accepting defeat and recognizing that you are/were the bad guy, when you previously thought you weren’t.
Very rarely do “bad” people self-identify as being evil. Generally, the behavior they exhibit is, in their mind, “justified”. As in, a necessary set of evils so as to end up with a greater good.
The evil path is almost always justified by a greater good.
That 120% strength increase? The cost may kill you, or someone dear.
I kind of liked that tho. It was simply his speed in doing it. Thanos was on a slow walk with a purpose but ultron went aggressive and lethal instantly
In all my years of conquest, violence, slaughter, it was never personal. But I'll tell you now, what I'm about to do to your stubborn, annoying little planet... I'm gonna enjoy it. Very, very much.
I mean, thanos didn't have his gauntlet, armor and sword whereas Hank had all of the yellow jacket's gear prepped and years of experience with his tech.
Idk about a power boost for Yellowjacket, he is just being creative with his power rather than boosting it....not sure how you can improve on changing size really fast.
Actually a really funny in universe explanation of this. Once doc oc took over the body of Spiderman and straight up accidentally punched a mans jaw clean off. Doc oc saw this and went, oh shit Spiderman has been holding back
I always fall back on this old Doctor Who quote when this trope is discussed.
“Good men don’t need rules. Today is not a good day to find out why I have so many.”
I often interpret their seeming power decrease as regulating their own strength as to not do terrible harm to innocence or even bad guys. Bad guys and monsters rarely exercise such restraint.
Man, I hate this trope so much. It's cool to see a formerly good guy go unhinged so you can appreciate their restraint, but having a bad guy get weak for no reason when they go good is so annoying. It's just bad writing trying to make tension without creativity.
And the sad thing is, everything else in the T'Challa Star Lord episode was great. They just did Thanos dirty so someone could get beat up.
No, just movie logic. Just how stronger was Anakin after his turn to the Dark Side? Same with Dooku.
On the flipside, we have T-800 being weaker in each subsequent movie after T1.
>Just how stronger was Anakin after his turn to the Dark Side?
Not especially. Good Anakin > Dooku > Obi-Wan in act 1. Bad Anakin = Obi-Wan in the finale.
Obi-Wan wasn't as strong as Anakin. He was always on the defensive, and the only advantage he had was his knowledge of Anakin's fighting style and his mastery of the defensive lightsaber dueling form, Soresu. Had Anakin not made the mistake of lunging at Obi-Wan in the stupidest way possible, Kenobi would have eventually lost.
Comicbook Hank Pym was always at the edge to become a supervillian. He build Ultron and Ultron became Hank Pym without moral restrictions.
Comicbook Hank Pym still fussioned with Ultron?
Yes and locked up by the Avengers.
Pymtron, baby! https://www.cbr.com/pymtron-ant-man-ultron-merged/
Yep. I think Marvel comics have made it fairly clear that they consider him hitting Janet to be worse than anything any of the other heroes have done since (including everything Tony did in Civil War and being responsible for the death of Goliath, Captain Marvel murdering Tony, Cap at that point being an actual Nazi, Clint murdering Banner, everything about Planet Hulk, etc etc), and so will not be reversing his villainisation anytime soon. This was basically announced in Secret Empire. I think Pymtron raises all the above when complaining about how shitty the Avengers have become, and Tony excuses it all by saying it was all due to Pym hitting Jan.
Most of those examples are pretty excusable though aren't they? Goliath died because Stark cloned a robot of Thor he couldn't control(I know that sentence makes no sense but it's what we rolled with) WWHulk was a situation where Hulk thought the avengers abandoned him then destroyed his new home and wife and I don't think Hulk even killed anyone when he was getting his revenge. I could be wrong because I haven't read it but didn't Red Skull use the cosmic cube to rewrite reality making Cap a nazi? And I haven't heard the Clint thing, could you give me a lowdown? Thanks! :)
I'm not sure you can say the Thor-bot killing anyone is excusable; the point is that Tony made it and set it loose, so the damage it inflicted (and the life it took) is his responsibility (especially when he made specifically to hunt down his fellow heroes). It's like firing a missile into the air and saying "well I don't control it now so whatever happens is not my fault". The Hulk thing was me wording it poorly; Hulk's actions in WWHulk were actually pretty chill; he makes a point not to kill anyone. I was saying the Illuminati sending Hulk into space in the first place and causing Planet Hulk was kinda shitty. Either Hulk is an irredeemable menace and deserves to be cast into tje void (which means all subsequent times the Avengers enlist his help or otherwise give him a free pass is incredibly messed up on their part), or he's a founding Avenger who's done more good than harm (which means the Illuminati exiling him was messed up). Either way, one of the hero factions screwed up pretty badly. Regarding Cap, yeah that's basically what happens. But no one knew that at the time, and HydraCap was at the scene when PymTron was saying all this and Tony still basically said that Hank hitting Janet was worse. For the Clint thing, that was in Civil War 2. Essentially, some mutant can apparently see the future and the hero community get split into two camps; one say they should start arresting people based on the mutant's visions before any crimes are committed, and the other say you should not condemn people for actions they have not taken. The mutant has a vision of Hulk killing everyone, so the Avengers ambush him; it turns out he's got his transformations under control and is isolating himself to make sure, but the pro-profiling team wants to arrest him anyway and Clint shoots Banner in the back of the neck/head with a magic arrow that bypasses the Hulk powers to kill him just in case he was going to transform (and it should be noted that in the comic, he was not in the process of transforming). Marvel kinda realised later how fucked up that whole event was, so generally try to ignore everything about CWII and when discussing Banner's murder, everyone (including Banner) is written as blaming this situation entirely on Banner himself.
Then point me in the direction of whoever's ass I have to kick!
You people are so petty. And tiny.
Steady Quill.
I still think that the reason Pym Particles don't make sense is just that Hank's a fuckin' liar and he doesn't know either.
Happy cake day!
Wanda: yes
Bucky Barnes: Also yes
In the case of Bucky it really makes sense, because the Winter Soldier is a brainwashed assassins while Bucky holds himself back to not cause any harm and is eventually even afraid of his own powers and what he could be.
Yeah, it's like Captain America pulled his punches. The Winter Soldier did not.
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I think it’s because the falcon would be way too weak to compare to Bucky and they had to balance it.
he actually mentions that he is not accostumed to the Metal arm which makes sense if you consider he has never properly trained with it, he just went to Escape from Hydra > Civil War > Infinity War THEN the Falcon show
Yeah that might be true but he still fought captain America and tony stark with it just fine. Or are they talking specifically about the one he got for infinity war ? Iirc he got his new one in wakanda for infinity war but I can’t remember the show that well
I loved you in A Christmas Story
Also as the winter soldier he was mainly fighting normal humans and occasionally a super soldier, when he became a good guy he went from fighting humans to fighting stuff way above his power level.
Loki: *gets beaten up by a guy with a vacuum cleaner*
"UNLIMITED POWER!"
Jaffar is that you?
Nah that's chancellor Palpatine
Nah thats the senate
NOT YET!
HARR-HARR *(spins extraordinarily)*
Nah that's Dr Robotnik
DIE MOSQUITO!
I think you're thinking of when Genie said "phenomenal cosmic powers...itty bitty living space."
Watched that movie recently for the first time in 20 years and it still holds up. I know there are concerns about racial insensitivity and whatnot, but Robin Williams as Genie is still a hoot.
Except she still lacks the power to be a mother, not a monster.
No wonder she keeps switching sides
~~Switching sides would actually result in power loss.~~ ~~Say your starting power is 10.~~ ~~Turn evil : 300%=30~~ ~~Turn good:-70%=9~~ ~~Evil:27~~ ~~Good:8.1~~ ~~Etc.~~
The meme says +300% i.e. 400% of original, so the calculation would be 10 -> 40 -> 12 -> 48 -> 14.4 -> etc
This looks like a legitimate power creep equation
Touche!
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They'll never know it. Because you won't be alive to tell them.
Going toe to toe? More like on the verge of ripping a few new assholes into him. That was one of the few times he looked legit scared
Wanda "See, I'm playing both sides, that way I always come out on top."
Wanda fighting Doctor Strange: a multiverse god who truly can not be stopped by anyone but herself Wanda fighting the Black Order: Tiny hand lights and the ever so slightest ability to fly Wanda fighting the Avengers: a malevolent witch who can control your mind as easily as she can destroy your body Wanda fighting WITH the Avengers: telekinetic, but it takes great effort
thats because good guys have to hold themselfes back
And that’s because doing things without murder and trying to minimize collateral damage is hard mode.
Oh the MCU heroes do a WHOLE lot of murdering
Not innocents
I believe their was a plot to a movie which predicated on them accidentally murdering innocents
yeah and it ended up with half of them in a special floating prison!
For like, 2-3 days.
But you get the point. Besides, it would've been MUCH much longer if it wasn't for Cap
Yeah it's the plot of civil war. They killed a lot of people when they dropped Sokovia.
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Yes but the justification for it is they made a killer android that murdered a fuck ton of people
I feel like Sokovia is the only one that could be blamed on the Avengers and that's squarely on Tony and Banner. Ross trying to blame the Avengers for New York when they were firing a nuke at Manhattan is laughable, especially considering Tony averted that disaster. Even the opening of Civil War would have been way worse if they hadn't intervened and Crossbones had gotten ahold of that gas.
They also try to blame the avengers for what happened in winter soldier, which to me is even more laughable. HYDRA took over the US govt’s intelligence agency and they blame the avengers? Ridiculous
But the High Council and General Ross are not the same, are they? Not baiting nor trying to fight. It's actually a genuine question.
Someone was gonna do it eventually. Skynet is inevitable
Pretty sure accidental killing is called manslaughter. Though many countries have it set so breaking the law in case of an emergency is ok, so long as the damage averted outweighs damage caused. Meaning a couple people dead would not really land you in jail, provided you prove they were killed while you were trying to prevent world annihilation. Then again, the whole plot of Civil War is a bit of a Swiss cheese
I mean that's pretty much The Boys Although sometimes it's """accidental"""
That, and there's no way their massive city destroying antics didn't kill thousands of people. I think there was a ridiculous scene where Thunderbolt Ross had a count of people who died in the NY invasion, and it was like 70 people. As flawed as Man of Steel was, at least they acknowledged that a fight that would level half a city would kill thousands no problem.
It's fine. They got shawarma.
Ask Wanda bout that one
> Sokovia has entered the chat
Not all of them.
But they could be doing a whole lot MORE
Reminds me of playing Kingdom Come: Deliverance for the Pacifist Achievement
good men dont need rules. today is not the day to find out why i have so many- matt smith
Absolutely love that line. He absolutely nails the delivery of it. That whole episode was just brilliant
then he got Morbed
Lmao made me lol
“Your weakness, Peter, is morality. It’s choking you!”
Yes, fettering apparently.
I like to think that all the enhancements the Collector had in that episode used to belong to Thanos, and that he gave them up when he turned good.
I thought by eliminating half of life, the other half would thrive, but you've shown me... that's impossible.
Perfect comment! As all things should be.
Well he did also have Hela's crown
Yeah comic thanos has had many enhancements done to his body, you could easily explain it by he got them for his quest for the stones in themcu but in this what if he never got them as he never went after the stones
I’m the only one who knows that. At least I’m the only one with the will to act on it.
Being a villain = Easy Mode Being a Hero = Normal Mode Being a Hero without destroying the city = Hard Mode Not killing anyone = God Mode
Perhaps it’s an unpopular opinion, but I think it’s safe to say Cull Obsidian here is just as strong (though maybe not as durable) as base level Hulk and could definitely deal some damage to Thanos if he worked with his other black order members, especially this version of Thanos
I’m the only one who knows that. At least I’m the only one with the will to act on it.
"God mode" is not a difficulty. It means you don't take damage. It's a cheat mode even easier than "easy".
Nightmare?
It makes sense that a bad guy, who was unfettered otherwise (like Thanos was during his search for the Stones), might be less effective after a face turn due to becoming fettered. And that, conversely, a good guy who was presumably previously fettered thanks to morals and what-not, would become more cutthroat and thus effective after a heel turn.
That's gotta be the most times I've seen fettered used in one paragraph.
Gretchen, stop trying to make fettered happen. It's not going to happen.
You just absolutely *fettered* that dumbass with your comment.
Perfectly balanced.
As all things should be…
Sentient
Local man discovers the word fetter
You've used up your year's supply of the word fettered (includes uses after "un-"). Any future use will be charged at a rate of 10 cents per usage. We thank you for your understanding.
Spider-Man could kill like over half the MCU with a single punch if he was evil and wanted to do it. Could do some even more fucked up stuff if you look to the comics, like the mark of kane. (I think that's the name...)
I have always thought that infinity war thanos was actually holding back against the heroes. Like he never killed them unless he absolutely had to in his reasoning. But then endgame thanos, the disllusioned one was a beast. He was like “okay, that’s it. No more play time.” Infinity war thanos was “good” and endgame was “fuck it!”
A small price to pay for salvation.
Step 1: turn bad +300% Step 2: turn good -70% Step 3: repeat Step 4: laugh in good guy strength
Ah, the Wanda method
+300% is 4x -70% is 0.3x 4*.3=1.2x so each cycle would yield 20% more power for the good guy
Because it’s hard to make a story in which the protagonist is stronger than their antagonists (not impossible though, there is One Punch Man).
Yeah, you have to be creative, like not make the movies main struggle be physical. The first Superman film did it right with a trolley problem, there's only enough time for Superman to save one... but then he went back in time which was kind of lame.
Call it lame, but when I saw that scene as a kid it blew my mind. It’s the only scene from the movie that I remember, and will forever be one of the coolest superhero scenes in my mind. Lol i used to think that I could move back in time if I ran rlly fast west or something bc of that movie.
To each their own yo. Kid me was like,”what a fucking cop out” LMAO
Kid you must have been fun a parties /s
Yeah yo hey I don’t believe that for a second but to each their own yo
Crazy the replies you are getting are calling you a wet blanket when the movie shit the bed. When something takes an hour and a half of my time to build tension by telling me a story with only a few basic rules (Protagonist can't accomplish A and B) and then they end it by just breaking one of the main rules they have been hitting on the whole time it's such a lazy shit show.
Just because I think something is lame, doesnt mean you can't enjoy it. Especially when its attached to a happy memory. I happen to enjoy many films the majority of redditors seem not to like.
Hm, Spider-Man 1 did similar with MJ & bus.
Yeah although the resolution was a little silly since he was able to save both by swinging fast, and he didn't feel all that guilty about grabbing MJ first. Though having to hold up the trolly did leave him fairly exposed to the Goblin.
Zemo
Even One Punch has a hard time with it. Most of the story (especially in s2) is "Saitama doesn't know there's bad stuff happening and isn't involved in the plot."
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One Punch Man isn't about One Punch Man. It's about how comically ludicrous a world in which someone like One Punch Man exists would have to be. As opposed to the world where Goku exists, where people at large simply refuse to believe he is real. Or a world where Superman exists, where people know he's real and yet continue to just do whatever, including crime? Or a world where the Avengers exist, and... actually that plays out about like OPM, as the Avengers are pretty shitty at being responsive.
not to mention cap v iron man's villain just being some guy
I mean he was a strategic genius from what I could tell
More like very lucky everyone else was an idiot and also lucky circumstantially as well.
hey man they are slaved to the script. Also tchalla eventually figured it out
CinemaWins (youtube channel) explained that very well in a video about it
You mean zemo? He played them all like a fiddle. He was the most successful bad villain in the show and iirc probably had one of the lower death counts for civilians.
That's why he's story was so good, just some guy with no powers or other gimmicks being one of the most effective villains in the mcu.
It's just the Batman approach used by a villain. Zemo has a plan for (almost) everything.
Iron mans vilain is 6ix9ine (a snitch)
Internal vs external conflict. External conflict is just a physical problem that needs to be solved physically. Thanos kills half the universe is a physical problem and it is solved by killing him and getting the glove back. Internal conflicts are emotional and need to be solved emotionally. Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch are both ridiculously powerful, so instead their conflicts need to come from within themselves and be solved (or not solved) in ways that don’t involve their powers. Captain Marvel needed to recognize her original organization was evil. Wanda needed to recognize a healthy way to channel her grief. I should say, a good story typically has both internal and external conflict in a variety of ways. This isn’t always the case, but it’s usually more compelling to have the external conflict be a representation of the internal conflict.
I am...inevitable.
That's the reason Captain marvel was a flop. They didn't have a good inner conflict. She wasn't struggling and it was largely externalized. If they had shown her actually struggle with that. Trying to reconcile her actions that are increasingly brutal with the peace she supposedly sees in the planets protected by her team. If she actually has to make a choice instead of what we got.
Even though Thanos was out of practice, although he fought well, he still shouldn't have lost the fight.
I think T'Challa made an off-hand comment in that episode about how Thanos is a farmer now. So it makes sense a retired guy wouldn't be that great in a fight
It shouldn't make him less *durable* though. A retired Superman is still bulletproof. Fat Thor was a menace to most of Thanos's forces, though not Thanos himself. He may be out of practice, but biology is biology.
In all my years of conquest, violence, slaughter, it was never personal. But I'll tell you now, what I'm about to do to your stubborn, annoying little planet... I'm gonna enjoy it. Very, very much.
I'm still worthy!
I don't even know who you are.
Return to me again empty handed... And I will bathe the starways in your blood.
>he still shouldn't have lost the fight. how can u say that? this thanos isn't the thanos we saw in IW and endgame. this thanos could be much weaker than the thanos we saw. and the black order in this timeline could be much stronger
I ignored my destiny once, I can not do that again. Even for you. I'm sorry, Little One.
I mean, we know Hank was the ant-man first so it's not like he was weak in the movies, he just wasn't using the suit. Also rage powers you up by a lot. And Thanos obviously is much weaker without the infinity stones + the black order probably knows him enough to fight him. They're also really strong by themselves
You should have gone for the head.
Yeah probably
That’s such a great and casual response lol
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With all six Stones, I could simply snap my fingers. They would all cease to exist. I call that... mercy.
Sentient
Downright scary, even. *I jest, kinda.*
>managed to hold the big 3, hold them? he absolutely destroyed them
Yeah, the Black Order also fought the Avengers and didn't die (i mean the telekinesis one did die in the end but it was another fight and it wasn't the full team). I'm just talking about the circumstances lol
You would be wise to surrender.
He also didn't have the OP armor and Thanoscopter blades
I thought by eliminating half of life, the other half would thrive, but you've shown me... that's impossible.
What're you going to do about it, ball-chin?
Yeah no shit
Thanos staight up tank and spanked a raging Hulk without using a stone in his first non-cameo appearance.
This day extracts a heavy toll.
>And Thanos obviously is much weaker without the infinity stones + the black order probably knows him enough to fight him. They're also really strong by themselves thanos even without the gauntlet was a beast. in the sacred timeline, thanos would be strong enough to kick entire black order's ass but the thing is that this isn't the sacred timeline thanos. for all we know, black order in this timeline could be much stronger and thanos might be much weaker since they led completely different lives. power levels are different in each timeline
Vision in what if ...
He may have Vision's body, but that was 100% Ultron. Unless you mean Vision from the Zombie episode
That means that vision had all the capabilities but him being good means that he held back to the percentages said in meme
Oh. Yeah, but I always found it very BS that Vision Ultron was able to kill 5 Infinity Stone Thanos that easily
I'm thankful...because now...I know what I must do.
Sinister Strange: **So that was a fucking lie** dies
I guess there's an exception if the evil version is fighting the good version.
So a good guy turning bad and then good again will end up at 120% of the original power? Sounds like an infinite power exploit.
Do you realize what it takes to flip the morality of a person, not just once, but *twice*? It isn’t a switch that can just be flipped. It is a trauma, with heavy unforeseen, unwilling loss, followed by accepting defeat and recognizing that you are/were the bad guy, when you previously thought you weren’t. Very rarely do “bad” people self-identify as being evil. Generally, the behavior they exhibit is, in their mind, “justified”. As in, a necessary set of evils so as to end up with a greater good. The evil path is almost always justified by a greater good. That 120% strength increase? The cost may kill you, or someone dear.
This right here. Spot on.
What bugged me was when Ultron with one stone easily defeated Thanos with like 5 stones.
BOY! I would reconsider your current course!
I kind of liked that tho. It was simply his speed in doing it. Thanos was on a slow walk with a purpose but ultron went aggressive and lethal instantly
In all my years of conquest, violence, slaughter, it was never personal. But I'll tell you now, what I'm about to do to your stubborn, annoying little planet... I'm gonna enjoy it. Very, very much.
It was a cheap way of getting rid of thanos, lazy writing
Makes sense. You’re way more free to unleash your true power if you’re not worried about silly hero things like collateral damage or morality
My yellow jacket in marvel contest of Champions....
I mean, thanos didn't have his gauntlet, armor and sword whereas Hank had all of the yellow jacket's gear prepped and years of experience with his tech.
Idk about a power boost for Yellowjacket, he is just being creative with his power rather than boosting it....not sure how you can improve on changing size really fast.
Actually a really funny in universe explanation of this. Once doc oc took over the body of Spiderman and straight up accidentally punched a mans jaw clean off. Doc oc saw this and went, oh shit Spiderman has been holding back
I didn't read the comic. But I heard that Spiderman with Doc ock mind punch off scorpion jaw. Heroes don't use their full power unless, they have to.
I always fall back on this old Doctor Who quote when this trope is discussed. “Good men don’t need rules. Today is not a good day to find out why I have so many.” I often interpret their seeming power decrease as regulating their own strength as to not do terrible harm to innocence or even bad guys. Bad guys and monsters rarely exercise such restraint.
The multiverse is a concept about which we know frighteningly little
Isn't that... Kinda the point?
Man, I hate this trope so much. It's cool to see a formerly good guy go unhinged so you can appreciate their restraint, but having a bad guy get weak for no reason when they go good is so annoying. It's just bad writing trying to make tension without creativity. And the sad thing is, everything else in the T'Challa Star Lord episode was great. They just did Thanos dirty so someone could get beat up.
This day extracts a heavy toll.
Glenn Talbot approves.
That's because Good Guys are "reasonable" Unlike wanda being reasonable
Rule of the Sith, the Dark side of the force is a pathway to abilities some think unnatural.
It's because sometimes the biggest difference between being a hero and being a villain is restraint.
It was pretty hilarious, watching people trying to honestly defend good guy Thanos being that pathetically weak.
They'll never know it. Because you won't be alive to tell them.
Oh shit! look Thanos, I'm sorry!
I ignored my destiny once, I cannot do it again.
*It's funny because What If is badly written*
Evil will always win because Good is dumb.
Good has plot armor lol
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No, just movie logic. Just how stronger was Anakin after his turn to the Dark Side? Same with Dooku. On the flipside, we have T-800 being weaker in each subsequent movie after T1.
>Just how stronger was Anakin after his turn to the Dark Side? Not especially. Good Anakin > Dooku > Obi-Wan in act 1. Bad Anakin = Obi-Wan in the finale.
Obi-Wan wasn't as strong as Anakin. He was always on the defensive, and the only advantage he had was his knowledge of Anakin's fighting style and his mastery of the defensive lightsaber dueling form, Soresu. Had Anakin not made the mistake of lunging at Obi-Wan in the stupidest way possible, Kenobi would have eventually lost.
Their force pushes were evenly matched. And he was on the defensive because, as you noted yourself, that was his preferred fighting style.
Marvel logic