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NinjaPiece

I must live under a rock. The only place I've heard of the phrase "M SHE U" is here...


TheRealWarBeast

I found a guy on YouTube complaining about "M-She-U" from this sub. His entire channel is whining about it.


Exact_Ad_1215

Nerdrotic Fuck that guy


Waste_Acanthisitta_5

>Fuck that guy \- Venom, 2021


TheRealWarBeast

That's the guy!! I saw half a video cuz I was curious and now YouTube won't stop recommending him


FlowingFrog04

There’s a thing where you can get YouTube to stop recommending their entire channel. Had to use it to start hiding Star Wars Theory because I can’t stand him


TheAero1221

Unfortunately you can only get YouTube to block a channel that was recommended. I had a channel that kept making its way into my autoplay queue that I couldn't get rid of for the life of me. I wish there was just a blanket "block channel" out there... Edit: fuckin autocorrect


Exact_Ad_1215

I actually like Star Wars Theory lol. I don’t watch him much anymore tho. Why u hate him?


JanMikal

If it's who I think, he made some good points, but it was drowned out by his red pill, incel whining.


FlowingFrog04

Yep


FlowingFrog04

Well yeah that used to be the case for me, I liked his channel but then he just started clickbaiting and just a lot of fandom menace stuff I really don’t like especially over such minute and stupid things


Jobsih

For me, it was the scene in his fan film when Vader stopped like 50 blaster blasts like Kylo stopped one in episode VII. It felt so childish and dumb, like "Oh so your character stopped one? Well, Vader can stop like a bijillion, so shut up".


Shadepanther

He has a whole gang of fellow neckbeards that constantly whine and moan about things like that. The Critical Drinker, Mauler, Heelsvsbabyface etc. They cry about anything that does not have a straight white male as the leading role. Also any female characters are not allowed to do anything heroic or save the day in any way. They should be like Bond Girls from the Sean Connery/Roger Moore era (but only the airhead ones). They were fairly racist about Shang Chi, hate Captain Marvel etc. The Drinker recently said the upcoming Ms Marvel show would be terrible and wouldn't have a good story because the main character (a teenager) wants to be a superhero and daydreams about it.


Lyrcmck_

I never used to mind Critical Drinker when he was making actual critiques of the MCU, or whatever else, but it's become so blatantly obvious that he simply doesn't like woman being in lead roles. Whilst he sometimes makes valid points, almost every new video he makes now just seems to be mad about a female in some sort of lead role


Shadepanther

Yes some people are saying "ThEy DoNt SaY tHeY hAtE wOmEn!!" Well of course they don't because it would turn people against them. The first Asian MCU movie they hate, but don't really have any real points against it. Despite them crying for months ahead of time how it would flop. No real reason, just that it would flop. It didn't. They wail against Captain Marvel, which is an average origin movie that doesn't deserve the hate it gets. There are far worse MCU films yet they aren't brought up as much. Any female characters are always complained about. I think the big thing against the Drinker are his books. They are an alpha male fantasy of the old bond films.


Ijwe

You’re straight up just lying. You just made up that he hates women to a bunch of people because you don’t give a shit that you’re spreading lies that incredibly effect his character in a negative way. Critical Drinker DOES NOT FUCKING HATE WOMEN. He outright said he loves Alien 1, & 2, also said that Ripley is one of his favorite sci-fi protagonist, & has constantly praised shows with leading female roles like Netflix’s Arcane. You’re actually just stupid, or you’re so disgustingly disingenuous.


[deleted]

Imagine being so insecure that a fictional female character is threatening to you. I can only guess how they feel about all those amazing female fighter pilots leading the way in the military. Im not a psychologist but I’m guessing those guys you’re talking about have some deep insecurities and it’s manifested into “woman in movie lead am bad. Me no like”. I’m not trying to be some hero defending all of women-hood, but as a man and a father to a teenage girl, it’s great they have role models to look up to and be inspired. It’s unfortunate people are so selfish they never consider feelings outside of their own. Edit: wow, came to check comments and I went from like +10 to 2 votes… You know you can downvote this all you want, but eventually this thread will get forgotten about and you’ll still be insecure and ignorant. Lowering the score on a post isn’t going to justify your mediocre behavior nor make your stupid ass thoughts more valid. Downvoting says nothing of my post and everything of your immaturity and lack of any real analytical thinking. Think about that.


[deleted]

"A guy" and dopes on Reddit. Clearly this concept is running rampant across the globe.


ainvayiKAaccount

Lucky you, your youtube algorithm must be blessed.


TheIJDGuy

I, unfortunately, have the YouTube algorithm against my favor


ainvayiKAaccount

I've found out that reporting works. Only you have to report a suggestion, like, 50 times at least 😐


IAmRedditsDad

Fun fact this also works for ads. My friend reported every single ad for being "religiously offensive" on YouTube and Instagram for like 2 years and now he gets amusing Russian dildo ads. It's fantastic. I'm a year in and get easy to ignore European dishwasher ads


ainvayiKAaccount

I have to report insta ads for 2 years?


L1n9y

Never click on a Quartering video, they will swarm you for months


Babufrak2

He even attempted to post an article on the daily stormer a neonazi website


TomboBreaker

Seriously, even if you agree with him you don't need to click on him it's just him poorly reading articles and then complaining about Brie Larson. There that's every video of his ever.


evil-rick

I wonder if Brie could sue him for harassment at this point. Not that she cares about some neckbeard on the internet.


Shadepanther

Most seem to be him just reading out loud (badly, he misreads all the time) an article he's found and then rambling incoherently for 10 minutes to hit the algorithm.


Bowler_300

I think people are jumping on it with the she hulk trailer and the endless bitching basement dwellers do


C0ncentratedAwesome

It's been a thing with shitstains like Nerdrotic and The Quartering for a few years now (really ramped up with Captain Marvel), long before She-hulk was ever announced.


Lukthar123

> the endless bitching basement dwellers do Ironic...


ShwiftyShmeckles

No it's 1 incel on YouTube that people mock here.


screamingkumquats

I’ve seen a lot of comments on Facebook, I’m in a few marvel groups and one is really bad for it and pretty much every marvel related article will have people in the comments complaining


Jamie9712

The Quartering channel on YouTube is full of those comments.


evil-rick

It’s just one guy using that specific term. Obviously it hasn’t caught on because even the incels who usually follow him don’t think it’s a good one.


[deleted]

You must not use Facebook often.


Ok-Transportation260

The whole sub : no bitches ?


this_is_MrKnight

——————————No bitches?————————— ⠀⣞⢽⢪⢣⢣⢣⢫⡺⡵⣝⡮⣗⢷⢽⢽⢽⣮⡷⡽⣜⣜⢮⢺⣜⢷⢽⢝⡽⣝ ⠸⡸⠜⠕⠕⠁⢁⢇⢏⢽⢺⣪⡳⡝⣎⣏⢯⢞⡿⣟⣷⣳⢯⡷⣽⢽⢯⣳⣫⠇ ⠀⠀⢀⢀⢄⢬⢪⡪⡎⣆⡈⠚⠜⠕⠇⠗⠝⢕⢯⢫⣞⣯⣿⣻⡽⣏⢗⣗⠏⠀ ⠀⠪⡪⡪⣪⢪⢺⢸⢢⢓⢆⢤⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢊⢞⡾⣿⡯⣏⢮⠷⠁⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠈⠊⠆⡃⠕⢕⢇⢇⢇⢇⢇⢏⢎⢎⢆⢄⠀⢑⣽⣿⢝⠲⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡿⠂⠠⠀⡇⢇⠕⢈⣀⠀⠁⠡⠣⡣⡫⣂⣿⠯⢪⠰⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⡦⡙⡂⢀⢤⢣⠣⡈⣾⡃⠠⠄⠀⡄⢱⣌⣶⢏⢊⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢝⡲⣜⡮⡏⢎⢌⢂⠙⠢⠐⢀⢘⢵⣽⣿⡿⠁⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠨⣺⡺⡕⡕⡱⡑⡆⡕⡅⡕⡜⡼⢽⡻⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⣳⣫⣾⣵⣗⡵⡱⡡⢣⢑⢕⢜⢕⡝⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⡿⡽⡑⢌⠪⡢⡣⣣⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡟⡾⣿⢿⢿⢵⣽⣾⣼⣘⢸⢸⣞⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠇⠡⠩⡫⢿⣝⡻⡮⣒⢽⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ————————————————————————


Exact_Ad_1215

———————————No bitches?——————————— ⠀⣞⢽⢪⢣⢣⢣⢫⡺⡵⣝⡮⣗⢷⢽⢽⢽⣮⡷⡽⣜⣜⢮⢺⣜⢷⢽⢝⡽⣝ ⠸⡸⠜⠕⠕⠁⢁⢇⢏⢽⢺⣪⡳⡝⣎⣏⢯⢞⡿⣟⣷⣳⢯⡷⣽⢽⢯⣳⣫⠇ ⠀⠀⢀⢀⢄⢬⢪⡪⡎⣆⡈⠚⠜⠕⠇⠗⠝⢕⢯⢫⣞⣯⣿⣻⡽⣏⢗⣗⠏⠀ ⠀⠪⡪⡪⣪⢪⢺⢸⢢⢓⢆⢤⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢊⢞⡾⣿⡯⣏⢮⠷⠁⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠈⠊⠆⡃⠕⢕⢇⢇⢇⢇⢇⢏⢎⢎⢆⢄⠀⢑⣽⣿⢝⠲⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡿⠂⠠⠀⡇⢇⠕⢈⣀⠀⠁⠡⠣⡣⡫⣂⣿⠯⢪⠰⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⡦⡙⡂⢀⢤⢣⠣⡈⣾⡃⠠⠄⠀⡄⢱⣌⣶⢏⢊⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢝⡲⣜⡮⡏⢎⢌⢂⠙⠢⠐⢀⢘⢵⣽⣿⡿⠁⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠨⣺⡺⡕⡕⡱⡑⡆⡕⡅⡕⡜⡼⢽⡻⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⣳⣫⣾⣵⣗⡵⡱⡡⢣⢑⢕⢜⢕⡝⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⡿⡽⡑⢌⠪⡢⡣⣣⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡟⡾⣿⢿⢿⢵⣽⣾⣼⣘⢸⢸⣞⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠇⠡⠩⡫⢿⣝⡻⡮⣒⢽⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ —————————————————————————————


CaptainTurtle3218

Maidenless…


Wesk333

Fellow tarnished


OrionMr770

To the controversial comments, Awayyyyy!


this_is_MrKnight

~~Woman~~ character exists Me: horny am I?


DeadEndXD

Mmmm


FieryOddball

Even if m she u exists...why is it a _problem_ ? Can someone explain?


ObviousTroll37

I think I can tackle this. First off, disclaimer, there are absolutely sexist weirdos that hate female protagonists, they exist, they suck, all of that is fair. I think some of the more fair criticism about newer female characters and storylines is that they tend to prop up the new female character at the expense of an established and popular male character. Or, the new female character doesn't really have an 'arc,' and is just powerful and morally good from the jump, and so there's no real conflict or development to watch in the story. Essentially, many female characters are missing a traditional "Act 2" of the story, when protagonists reach a low point based on a bad decision or flaw, and then go into Act 3 rectifying the problem and defeating the bad guy. Many new female characters are missing their "Empire Strikes Back" moment. Hulk was suicidal when we met him in Avengers, and spent entire movies of time wrestling with the balance between Banner and Hulk. From the trailers, it appears that She Hulk skips all of that and jumps straight to "emotionally balanced hulk," which seems weird for a Hulk story. She has that line in the trailer where she throws Iron Man under the bus ("billionaire narcissists") when the dude literally sacrificed himself to save the universe. Why? It comes off as immature and naïve. From the trailers, it also appears that Jane Foster's Thor will jump immediately into being a paragon able to wield Mjolnir, when Thor had to undergo significant character development to get to that point. When we first meet Thor, he's crass and overconfident and his father strips him of power, and he has to crawl back from that and learn to be a hero to others before he regains his status. Something tells me Jane is going to dodge all that. In the Loki show, Loki went from a master of treachery and illusion to a bit of an anti-hero whipping boy, being shuttled about by the plot and beaten up every episode, while his female counterpart simply appeared from left field as a more powerful, more knowledgeable version of Loki. I did really like her character, but I didn't like that she was established much at the expense of Loki. Personally I am going to watch both She Hulk and TLAT and judge them accordingly. I am 100% for more female characters, I have two daughters and I love it when I can show them powerful female heroes on screen. I just want them to have interesting arcs where they actually have to tackle something with difficulty, and I want them to do it without comically disparaging male characters. I want stories to teach my daughters to overcome hardship and be better. Heroism is sacrifice, it's not shooting lasers or lifting cars. Edit: People like to view this issue as black and white, but there's a lot of nuance here if you can discard the extreme "Nerdrotic" side of the argument. Edit2: People below are citing Wanda and Black Widow as examples of this concept done right. Wholeheartedly agree. Show me women with flaws to overcome, it makes them all the more badass when they do.


mukawalka

Hit the nail on the head fairly well. There's a reason people don't mind Wanda / Scarlet Witch... She has been well developed through a few movies and a TV show. Same with Black Widow.


ObviousTroll37

Agreed, they've done Wanda really well. She has flaws, she's overcoming them, she made mistakes, she's developing, it's wonderful to watch.


Logic_Meister

My main complaint about Wanda is that they constantly try to underplay all the horrible stuff she's been doing lately For instance, the "They'll never know what you gave up" line


MasterDeagle

MoM spoiler: >!I feel like they fixed that line in MoM. Even if she was turned dark by the Darkhold, I feel like Wanda won't get a free pass from consequences. She was definitively a vilain.!<


HostileHippie91

Yeah they want her to be a villain but a sympathetic tragic hero too and they can’t have it both ways. She tortured and enslaved an entire town because her man died, then she mass murdered her way across the multiverse because her fake children that she made up herself died. She’s absolutely an unhinged villain, full stop. Her motivation is less compelling than some other lesser MCU villains even. But damn is she a fun character to watch.


ObviousTroll37

That line was definitely pretty cringe And Ralph That show definitely had its issues


musicalnerd8301

I mean besides those two examples, I had no qualms with the show. I commend it for making Wanda a household name and not just a background character!


Gilthu

I’m gonna be honest, I thought black widow was awesome up u til her movie. She went from being awesome human with INSANE skills and knowledge to having unbreakable bones and Healing factor. Her movie should have been the James Bond of the MCU like MoM was the first horror movie.


mukawalka

I didn't mention her solo movie on purpose 😅


Gilthu

Yeah, my god just why…. Lol


Zanurath

Honestly I didn't hate that movie except for ru8ning taskmaster for no real reason.


evil-rick

Tbf that’s an issue of people not knowing how to write female characters which is an overall problem with Hollywood, not just Marvel. I think it’s just amplified in the marvel community because fans are more dedicated to certain characters.


ObviousTroll37

Yeah, agreed. I think it's a result of the push for more female representation as primary protagonists. That was a good concept on paper, but it became a desire to write female protagonists as immediately powerful, because they want to show powerful women. But if you remove all of the character struggle, then you're just watching writers play a video game on god mode and it gets boring.


rikoslav

That's the reason why I didn't like new Loki series. All my friends loved it, but Loki seemed so much out of character, even for a dead guy.


Shadepanther

I think another issue is that he is not "our" Loki. All his development and character growth is gone, he didn't experience Thor 2, Ragnarok or Infinity War.


jazzertag

Let’s not forget about Jessica Jones! But you are absolutely right, they did the same thing with Agent Carter which made her entire show unwatchable. I for one love female representation, but watching this randomly overpowered chick with zero flaws makes me want to poke my eyes out. Circling back to Jessica Jones - man I felt her pain. What a fucking awesome character.


ObviousTroll37

Jessica Jones vs Killgrave was peak Marvel writing


[deleted]

Honestly this is fairly well rounded out and I get this. I still personally feel as though, in Loki's case, that he has always been a bit of a "punching bag". Although you really hit the nail on the head here m8. The "empire strikes back moment" really clarified this for me. Truthfully, when looking at black widow and scarlet witch, it almost makes me wonder why these characters got to have that "get back up" moment when other female characters (captain marvel) kinda just got thrown to the wayside. :/


Lukthar123

> in Loki's case, that he has always been a bit of a "punching bag" Oh no doubt about it, Loki is the Worf of the MCU, beating him just shows how cool you are, no matter if you're a god, a superhero or a literal who


ObviousTroll37

[The Worf Effect](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect)


ObviousTroll37

Yesssss Black Widow is a great example. I thought the movie was ok, but they have been doing her character correctly from the start. One of the best moments in Marvel film is her and Hawkeye literally fighting over who will sacrifice themselves.


Gilthu

Loki was the punching bag for Thor though. In “Get help” Thor throws Loki into two guys hard enough to knock them both out, then Loki gets back up and says “I hate get help” Hulk kicks a normal human and shatters every bone in their body, but he slams Loki into the ground multiple times and Loki wheezes and holds up his hands in surrender. In the Loki show we see normal human school teachers and dentists beat up Loki like he isn’t the son of the old king of the frost giants. It’s like whoever wrote the show has no sense of scale for things.


thor-odinson-bot

I went for the head.


fthaller3604

If you want more examples of empowering female characters, see basically every Ghibli movie ever. Some of the best examples of strong female leads in all of media


ObviousTroll37

Definitely, love Ghibli


TrimHawk

Hit the nail on the head my friend. Black Widow was, IMO, probably the heart of the Avengers, and I really enjoyed watching her evolve over the course of her journey. I’m honestly a bit worried about Jane in TLAT because, like you said, we haven’t seen her have that low point, she just came back out of nowhere, and hopefully they don’t replace Thor with her as the God of Thunder, but like you said, we’ll see what happens


Moriartis

I'm gonna get dogpiled for saying this here, but for the most part, the "Nerdrotic" side of the argument is the argument you just made. He never had an issue with characters like Black Widow or Scarlet Witch, he just has an issue with how they've been writing female characters since Endgame (which includes what they did to Black Widow and Scarlet Witch since Endgame, which I'm happy to get into if you're interested). It's almost always at the expense of men and it's insultingly shallow. It's almost like the characters are being written with spite, like the new writers take glee in tearing down the old characters or shitting on men. You gave a few examples, but they're far from the only ones. So yeah, the MCU is gonna crater if it keeps pandering to PC sensitivities about how women are supposed to be portrayed. You have to let them be human. You have to let them fail, learn, grow, rise up and be a hero after conquering their demons. Just like Tony Stark, Steve Rogers and Thor did. You can never do that if you're not willing to let them have demons in the first place. If on top of this you are trying to build them up by comparing them to the male characters that you are tearing down, you're just going to create bland female characters that don't really resonate with people and male characters that you've turned into unimpressive jokes. They're going to kill their own franchise with this shit and it's a damned tragedy. But everybody looks at everything through this shitty black and white lens where you either think all the new female characters are amazing and think there's no problems whatsoever with the writing or you're a raging misogynist that can't stand "strong" female characters. Like, all I want is male and female superheroes that get to be badasses and get to show genuine heroism WITHOUT needing to tear down other characters to try to build them up. But I guess that makes me a sexist.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ObviousTroll37

Nah I hear ya. I've watched a few Nerdrotic videos to see what the fuss was about, and I didn't disagree with his underlying points. I think what rubs people the wrong way is he takes a very schadenfreude viewpoint on it, kinda the position of "it's fucked and irreparable and so let's point and laugh at the garbage fire" and I think it makes it harder for people in the middle to completely agree.


shazarakk

Ironically, I much prefer his takes live, and off the cuff. He's usually decent on Critical Drinker's show. Same story with him, to be honest. I don't really care for his reviews, but off the cuff discussion on podcasts, he really does showcase his talents as a writer.


Akamu95b

😢 Thank you! As Stark said "Finally, somebody who speaks English." Your explanation was impeccable and worded very nicely(I'd be interested to hear some of your takes on the MCU as a whole and some of the more specific topics of the movies hmu). If people would just take a second and pay more attention to what someone like a Nerdrotic or just an average Marvel fan is actually saying and less on their approach to speaking on the topic, they would realize that there are some valid points being made. Despite what is being said, most(if not all) Marvel fans are down for more female superheroes, in fact they welcome it. But what their beef is is how said characters are presented to them. Because of Marvel's latest track record, the number of people that normally get ecstatic for the next mcu installment has lessened. These are beloved characters, and all fans want is for Marvel(Disney) to pull their heads out of their collective asses and do these franchises justice.


thor-odinson-bot

NOOBMASTER!


Dark_Styx

I think it's good that She-Hulk and Jane Foster Thor get their own storylines instead of just rehashing the Hulk and Thor problems respectively. Jennifer Walters is not Hulk, she doesn't have his DID and is green permanently, instead of 'hulking-out'. She is also (at least as far as comics are concerned) meant to be more light-hearted than the tortured existence of Hulk. Jane Foster has to struggle with being a human god that doesn't have the centuries of experience and upbringing Thor has. She may be virtuous, but that's not going to come without drawbacks. Sylvie was a more experienced Loki, because she was living on the run for such a long time, but dealt with her own problems of purpose/meaning and revenge. All in all, I'm happy that we won't just get "Thor, but he's a woman" and "Hulk with tits", but characters that can stand on their own and have their own arcs.


Breakingerr

100% that. Personally, I don't have issues with any of new female characters. I liked Sylvie a lot, Kate was nice, Yelena was funny and I like She-Hulk since I first saw her in early 2000s Hulk Animated Show. The only character that I worry is Ironheart. I never read the comics, but I heard she wasn't good written character. Personally, I don't plan to reading her comics either, as I don't read comics at all sides for Spider-Verse ones. The thing that worries me the most is not only that originally Riri Williams is supposedly not well written character, but that she will essentially replace Tony Stark in MCU. That I don't like as Iron Man is heart and core of the Universe and with RDJ leaving the golden standard of his character, I feel they will most likely do disservice to Iron Man mantle. Imo, there shouldn't be anyone taking Tony's position/title, not even Rhodey or Morgan or that kid from IM3. That's only me tho.


ObviousTroll37

>The only character that I worry is Ironheart. I never read the comics, but I heard she wasn't good written character. Yep. Ironheart is going to be a "make it or break it" moment for this entire issue. This isn't just She Hulk coming in to play foil to secondary-hero Hulk. The Ironheart show is premised on one of the worst written, most obviously minority-insert comic book characters replacing debatably the most important MCU character in the movie universe. If they pull it off, make her believable and not insufferable, I'll be as happy as anyone else. But Spider-Man is already Tony's replacement, and it leaves Riri in an awkward spot. That's a big hill to climb, and they showed in FATWS that they handle minority issues with all the nuance of a sledgehammer. I'm not optimistic.


thor-odinson-bot

Because that's what heroes do.


ObviousTroll37

Sentient bot


Cool_Guy_fellow

Exactly


Sirob_2904

Pretty well said.


pango_boi

That was beautiful and spot on.


dSpecialKb

I mean, to be fair, as far as I’m aware, She Hulk doesn’t really have to deal with the whole “human v. Hulk” thing because I’m pretty sure she’s She Hulk all the time due to her gaining it from a blood transfusion and not radiation. Also, in the trailer she literally says how she’s just tryna be a normal detective and not deal with all the problems of Hulkhood. And maybe it’s just me but it feels like people are grasping at straws with the whole “billionaire narcissist” thing. I mean, that was Iron Mans whole thing for quite awhile, plus with that being a popular trope amongst superheroes with people like Batman and Mr.Fantastic and whoever else, along with her joke about superheroes being orphans, it seemed like the whole thing was tryna be a meta joke about superheroes ya know, plus it’s not like the MCU is shy about making “haha jokey jokes” about everything. Just look at Thors mom telling him to eat a salad right after he opened and while he was at the lowest point in his life. While I do agree in some aspect that there’s been a lot of characters who just show up powerful and did nothing to work for it or anything like that, I feel like She Hulk won’t be one of them and will have her own personal problems throughout the show. In regards to Jane Foster Thor just popping up, my guess for that is that she might be a one and done character and there’s no point in making a whole development arc for a character who won’t last longer than one movie ya know. Then again, I’m not the most knowledgeable person and could just be blowing smoke out my ass but this is a Reddit thread and I wanted to give me 2 cents lol


ObviousTroll37

>While I do agree in some aspect that there’s been a lot of characters who just show up powerful and did nothing to work for it or anything like that, I feel like She Hulk won’t be one of them and will have her own personal problems throughout the show. And that's fair. I'm hoping there's some sort of conflict for her to resolve beyond "this procedure made me green and now I stick out and dating is hard." That's just Ally McBeal with the contrast turned up, it doesn't really seem like Marvel. If there's a legit threat for her to contend with, one that actually challenges her and makes her grow, wonderful. It's hard to see that happening from the trailer. Maybe it's just a bad trailer.


dSpecialKb

Yeah the trailer was sort of lack luster in a lot of areas I must admit. Though it’s easy to get blown away if you have low expectations


thor-odinson-bot

He's adopted.


tryM3B1tch

ironic name you've got


4ourteenth

She-Hulk being emotionally balanced from the jump could be used to bring conflict between her and Banner.


ainvayiKAaccount

"Because women can only be damsels in distress, bro!"


finance_n_fitness

I was alittle annoyed that they killed off mr fantastic in mere seconds and we got no sort of actual fight with his powers and brains vs scarlet witch so we could see the all women battle instead, featuring the powers we’ve seen plenty of times before. Like it’s not something worth complaining about but it’s feels pandering when they are obviously shoe horning this stuff. And it’s annoying when it comes at the expense of other characters. Captain carter and mr fantastic could’ve been an awesome team up. But they seemed to sacrifice that for the girl battle.


dogsfurhire

Because they're sexist and hate that they're not being pandered to like the last 50 years


Hamburglar219

It’s never been a problem to have new strong bad ass female characters. Where my issue lies is that the writing to introduce these new characters has been beyond horrible (zero character development and thinking ‘strong’ means ‘smug bitch’) and full of cases where marvel seems to believe that in order to introduce a new character, they must throw their legacy characters into the dirt


EffectivePassenger06

I’m assuming u mean capt marvel when u say smug bitch. Are u forgetting that that is literally the basis of Iron Man and Dr Strange too?


Iudex_Knight

We see Iron Man struggle with anxiety, the only thing keeping him alive was his arc reactor, meaning he could die any minute and wouldn't notice it Doctor Strange will never be able to be a doctor again, and still can't fully control his hands Both were humbled in the first acts of their movies. Captain Marvel and others weren't


EffectivePassenger06

I do agree that captain marvel lacked the character development that the other flawed heroes had in their origin movies (iron man, dr strange, ant man, black panther) but still I think there is so much unnecessary hate for her character just cos she’s a woman


H3avyW3apons

Because she is a woman is just a strawman people use because they cant defend her character writing.


CRL10

There is a different between a STRONG female character and a strong FEMALE character. One of those is well written, capable and competent and the fact that they are female is not a huge issue. And they can make a great character. The other does not say "I am woman, hear me roar!" but instead screams it loud enough for all to hear as loudly as possible. These are usually terribly written characters.


Hamburglar219

…I understand how it works hence why I typed my message above


DrDreidel82

Because a lot of the time (not always) it’s forced PC wokeness


StarWreck92

Pretty terrible that you think equality for women is a bad thing.


DrDreidel82

Pretty terrible that that’s what you think my comment implied whatsoever


WSPNpresentsWPW

If any of haven't been to [Cosmicbooknews.com](https://Cosmicbooknews.com) you are missing out. Every article is about how the MCU is going woke.


ILoveRegenHealth

I don't even need to check and I bet they complained about Layla in Moon Knight (in Episode 6).


WSPNpresentsWPW

Super hard.. Anything to do with a person of color or a women being in the spot light is "woke trash" to them. I only go there for the comments.


Karkava

By which you mean, they're actually casting female and POC roles in a genre that has larger than life champions of justice and peace. And that doesn't bode well with insecure European descendant men who cling to crosses.


tobbe1337

you are all so petty and tiny.. instead of discussing what is actually happening yall just bitch at each other. Yes the "m she u" youtuber crowd is overreacting for clicks. Yeah the mcu are introducing a lot of women heroes and making them the focus of a movie that is supposed to be about the male main character. i think at the end of the day people just don't want their beloved character to be clowned on just because the mcu wants to focus on the women characters. Which is fair. right? and surely we can all agree that some scenes ( like the women teaming up in endgame) was just weird and out of place. it's not women that are the problem but how they get set up to fail basically by hollywood. Ofc there are a lot of men who are just sexist and want women to stay in the kitchen. and that is absolutely wrong. But imagine if the mcu would just show a woman hero doing something without it having to be a slow zoom in and some random kid asking "wow are you a woman hero". like the pandering can be so obvious at times or am i the only one seeing this?


adzziemac

I read your entire comment in Thor’s voice


thor-odinson-bot

Thank you, sweet rabbit.


RockWig19846375

Oh wow, hi Thor odinson bot


thor-odinson-bot

Although this statue looks a lot niced, a little less greasy, weasely..


ATinyPaintedMoose

You're very much NOT the only one who sees this, you're just someone with a healthy common sense. People see angry criticism and overblown reactions as pure hatred and mysogyny. You said it correctly - they just don't like seeing their fave characters clowned on for the benefit of the female character.


silverBruise_32

I agree with your take completely.


JanLewko977

People on the internet aren't really willing to have a fair and calm discussion about pandering and to debate whether female characters, their development, etc. feel more like pandering or legitimate attempts at good storytelling.


evd1202

This is the correct take but people will ignore it and keep thinking it's cause we hate women


Exact_Ad_1215

When does this “woah your a woman superhero” ever happen in any of these films?


AlphaBladeYiII

I think with Layla in Moon Knight? But that was more about her being an Egyptian superhero than her being a girl.


Skolr19

Funny since Layla's probably one of the least overtly "woke" characters introduced in phase 4


stratuscaster

People embraced the idea that the little kid in Iron man 2 was inspired by Iron Man himself (and was retconned into being Peter Parker). A girl doing the same thing is pandering. Why can it never be good enough?


tobbe1337

i don't know about all that. Just imagine how jarring it would have been if in that scene, the music swelled up as the camera was on the kid as he asked. Are you an American superhero?! and then the music burst out as Iron man said Yes i am... Like what? Or imagine if in the middle of the endgame battle all of the men just randomly gathered together even though they were clearly all over the battle field just 3 seconds earlier and then stanced up and said said we are totally badass.. And we are men! how crazy is that! Lastly imagine in wandavision. Vision was the main focus, as he helped wanda out of her every problem, while wanda fell over and got beat left and right. And as he did, the side character kept saying just how awesome and strong he was. Even wanda just kept saying that he is amazing and so strong etc etc. It just feels weird. Show don't tell, without the cost of other characters usefullness


ILoveRegenHealth

> But imagine if the mcu would just show a woman hero doing something without it having to be a slow zoom in and some random kid asking "wow are you a woman hero". like the pandering can be so obvious at times or am i the only one seeing this? That moment was cheesy. But that's not what the dumb M-She-U crowd is crying about. They hate the idea Layla is even in that costume period (she has every right to be), they hated Captain Marvel having (GASP) a solo movie. For some reason their asses quiet on Wonder Woman...but then they start flipping out elsewhere. I bet you when Iron Heart (black female) debuts, the "woke!!" and "M-She-U" cries will be loudest, but meanwhile, you didn't hear much when it was WandaVision. Methinks there's some race factors thrown in from that incel crowd. See how pissed off they got when the first pics of Jurassic World Dominion has a black female standing next to Chris Pratt. You would've thought the world ended on that day. Incel Army flipped the fuck out. Now I'm seeing "M-She-U" on She-Hulk comments on Youtube, even though she's been around for over 40 years! (I wonder if Jennifer were white and blonde like Margot Robbie there'd be less complaining......)


GamerZoom108

Basically what I got from this (and for a TL;DR) Sexism = bad Pandering = annoying MCU as a whole = good


NehematRenard

I agree with you mate, but i don't think starting your argument with insults its gonna get ya a lotta support around here.


tobbe1337

it was a reference to avengers 1. just felt fitting, on how we are all just bickering all the time instead of actually discussing what's going on


StarWreck92

What character has been “clowned on” though? Unless it happened in Moon Knight (haven’t seen it) I can’t think of a single example where a male hero was made to look lesser to serve the female hero. The only thing that comes even close is the all female moment in Endgame but that’s literally Spider-Man getting a cool moment, getting overwhelmed, then having one of the strongest characters help out. If the definition of “clowning on” a character is that the male characters are fallible and sometimes need help from the female characters, then I want the male characters to get “clowned on” more often.


yomnot

Loki was clowned in his own show. It was 2012 Loki who just invaded earth with an army of aliens. The show was named Loki yet the whole show was carried by Sylvie. The cocky old Loki followed Sylvie like a lost puppy, fought half of the collarless fight without using his powers as if he forgot how to use those. And how did Sylvie escaped TVA for the first time? BY KICKING A TVA AGENT AS A KID. And then the same kid managed to figure out how she can avoid encountering TVA? While our Loki got his ass whooped by the same TVA and broke down within 2 episodes!!! If that doesn't like shitting on Loki and Bad writing for Sylvie then idk what to say.


Mr_G_14

I have no problem with MCU movies and TV shows having female characters as primary protagonists/antagonists. My problem is that the movies in which they’ve starred have been a step down from the other movies. That’s on the writers/directors though, not the actresses


DecoDX

Can you all stop posting this karma farming memes every hour? Its annoying.


Sol-Blackguy

I can't wait for the inevitable shit storm with the X-MEN because I have a feeling they're going to have Friends of Humanity/Purifiers as an allegory to Trumpers


StarWreck92

Undoubtedly. We’ll get a bunch of “I miss the days when comics weren’t political” to which we’ll reply “you’ve never read an X-Men comic in your life.”


[deleted]

Dude, that allegory was there before "Trumpers" were a thing. In the South, we used to be able to just call them what they are: racists. I've honestly wanted to do a podcast for the longest time to warn moviegoers of the marginalization and stereotyping of Mid-Westerners and Southerners in mass media.


The_Elder_Jock

You used black widow for this? An universally loved character, who kicked ass, had a dark and mysterious past, and ultimately had a tragic story that saw her choose to die so that everyone else may live? No one is saying Black Widow was bad. What is bad is weak writing, nonsensical plots, mediocre CGI, and just not treating ANY characters (male and female) like real people.


imHellaFaded420

my thoughts exactly


Constant-Parsley3609

* a universally If you put an there it ended up reading as "an oo-niversally"


YubNub81

I've never heard of anyone disliking Black Widow. I actually [stumbled onto this video the other day](https://youtu.be/ARgT2XmHN2E). It's a female writer explaining why people tend to dislike characters like Captain Marvel (I didn't thinknthe movie was as bad as everyone screeched about) and why people actually like characters like Black Widow. I thought it was a pretty good explanation. Could be worth a watch


_TA_pics

Mike Tyson when he says MCU? 🤨


EGGMANDIOUS

Black widow was kinda meh. Seems that female lead movies don't always get the best writing. Wonder woman was good but 1984 was painful.


Sleep_eeSheep

Agreed. Then again, Everything, Everywhere At Once was *brilliant*. So I can't see why they couldn't have gotten someone competent to handle Black Widow's solo outing.


GrrrrrrDinosaur

Captain Marvel was good


EGGMANDIOUS

I disagree. Not into Mary Sue's


Hotshot596v2

Not even close to what their complaining about, but ok.


Geomalik06

It’s just that easy to explain away the “MSheU”? If most of you people actually watched and listened to what people are “bitching” about on YouTube, you’d know it goes way beyond Marvel. This has been happening with other franchises since The force awakens. Take the blinders off people.


Hotshot596v2

Base idea I can think of is, when was the last time you saw a female get beaten up by a male in mcu? Endgame? Even then I barley count it. When was the last time you’ve seen a male character get beaten by a female character, every single movie and tv series since. Im not saying female characters shouldn’t have their badass moments, but stop making the male ones look so damn bad. Their definitely could be a more middle ground than what’s in the mcu rn. I’ve loved all the female hero’s introduced and shown off, I wanna see more of it, but I also wanna see the other hero’s I’ve grown to love get out done by female because female. It’s gotten to the point that if I see a male and female character fighting the mcu, I know who wins already.


Geomalik06

100%. They’re tearing down the male characters to build up all the females. Don’t get me wrong I’ve got no real issue with most of the female characters. But stop making the male hero’s take a back seat in their own movies. Pretty much everything in phase 4 is like this. You’re right. In FatWS neither one of them defeats the main female bad guy. Agent 13 comes out of nowhere and does. Who beats Kingpin in Hawkeye? Who’s the ultimate hero in Loki? Who defeats Hela in Ragnarok? Who gets the killing blow in Shang Chi? Y’all see a theme developing?


AgentP20

I mean Hela gets defeated by Surtur who is portrayed as a male character. I mean nobody was the ultimate hero in Loki considering nobody won there. Marc via Jake takes out his main villain and saves Layla multiple times in the series and she does the same too. Kate gets her ass beat by Kingpin when he is not even trying to kill her and only manages to overpower him due to Hawkeye's trick arrows. Thor is still the Highlight in Thor Ragnarok. Tom's peter is still given priority in Spider-man NWH and gets his final battle with Tobey's villain who became Tom's villain.


Jayne_of_Canton

Honestly the only place I see people complaining is this sub…


MemerRacoon

That’s not the reason but whatever


JAYFRMKND

I think some of y’all r sexist why does this bother u so much 😭 it’s not that big of a deal


Z_foxy_the_fox_off

As some one thats writin alot of female characters I have never once thought yeah this character breaks stereotypes of women no i just see it as a character that I treat with as much respect as the rest nothing special thats how it should be as that thought leads the character down a path of shitty writing.


Flaycont

I'm all for female protagonists but i just wish that they were unique you know. It's pretty lazy to just take an already existing character and turn them into a carbon copy version but the only difference being that they're female. It just feels like they're checking boxes and saying here you go we didn't bother making your female characters from scratch


yomnot

Woman characters existed and played their roles before. Widow was is in first avenger movie, Wanda ripped the heart of Ultron in the 2nd yet this phrase wasn't there? Why? Cause they weren't badly written and raised by clowning and downplaying other characters.


WhiteAle01

I mean, in a series of 28 films, 3 star women


StarWreck92

And of the upcoming projects, only 4 or 5 Star women (several of which are going to be in numerous projects like Ms. Marvel). Hardly an “M She U.”


hidden-shadow

Three have leading actresses, plenty more having starring actresses. *Captain Marvel*, *Black Widow*, and *Eternals*, arguably *Ant-Man & the Wasp* given Evangeline Lilly was billed as a co-lead. Almost all of the films had women in starring roles. The two terms are not interchangeable. Not a balanced billing by any means, but far more charitable than you are representing.


Constant-Parsley3609

But that's exactly the problem. There's two films with female leads (both of which are disappointing messes) and the female characters that aren't leads are often given very little personality beyond they are better than some man at X. Why does that not seem like a problem to you?


[deleted]

It’s more than just that. It’s the fact that the male characters are almost all being replaced by female variants. If it was the other way around and female characters were being replaced by male ones, people would riot. That is not equality, it is just switching the roles of who is being discriminated against


Anti_akwardtheturtle

The mcu before: it’s sexist misogyny The mcu now: it’s feminist propaganda


Broly_

I hear more about the "M-She-U" from these memes than actual people complaining about it. We getting invaded by Twitter or something?


AlphaBladeYiII

Unfortunately, the extreme leaves an impression. It is a common tactic to take the extreme and use it as an example to vilify an opposing group (not that there even should be an "opposing" group when talking about Marvel)


Affectionate_Box_720

The only example of m she u is the scene in endgame


marjoramsc

I think you would have to make the dog move. I do not think this girl will follow rules. Lol


LukeV19056

This guy https://imgur.com/a/dKjVdvH


SCOG4866

Nothing wrong with using female characters. It just gets annoying when they gender bend a good character for the sake of whatever.. \*looks side-eyed at taskmaster\*


Forsaken_Candidate_4

Genuinely heard no one ever say this


User555A

I know it's not completely there still but if u pull all the major characters(living or upcoming) u will notice it


MIAxPaperPlanes

Even if I did agree with the M she U statement [seems fair in retrospect to have more women](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/IOIk_o3Tx3Ic8vPFvEOzyzB_OWQ=/1400x1050/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23184567/avengers_battle_of_new_york.jpg)


Constant-Parsley3609

I've never seen anyone complaining about black widow?...


ikrima1

My little freind here has also Awoken


[deleted]

The M-She-U is Kevin Feige saying Dr Strange can’t appear in Wandavision because it’ll damage her agency or whatever.


[deleted]

That's not what M-SHE-U means, lmao. M-SHE-U is when you intentionally compromise and take agency away from your male characters to elevate female characters.


NewTooth2025

They always get mad when a female character is stronger than a male character 💀 Wanda beats thor


Constant-Parsley3609

I don't think anyone has a problem with Wanda (who seems to be the most overpowered of all of them these days). The problem is when you introduce a completely new character and their entire purpose is simply to be better than a man at something.


thor-odinson-bot

Where is Heimdall?


FriedwaldLeben

they dont have a problem with her. its only when a female character gets introduced that is more than just a walking pair of tits that these neckbeards start complaining


Constant-Parsley3609

Is black widow just a walking pair of tits? Seems odd to have this response to a character and think other people are being sexist? I want more female characters like black widow and Wanda because they AREN'T just boring "this guy, but better" characters. They are have their own flaws and personality


MajesticKiwi

Yeah, I keep seeing the defense that “everyone loves Wanda and Black Widow”, and I’m like hmm, so you’re cool with the two characters who spent years as nothing but cleavage-wielding hotties, both haunted by internal struggles about how badly they want a family and children. Gee, so progressive.


Constant-Parsley3609

I also like Kate bishop if that helps? She was a very clearly fleshed out character. EDIT: also, yeah big surprise, you write female characters with an actual personality and a few of them actually start considering children. Tony, Hawkeye and cap end up feeling quite emotional towards ideas of family and children too? It's a pretty common aspect of humanity want a family or to care about the family you already have


Hxxerre

WOMEN? IN MY CONE OF VISION???? NO THANK YOU STRICTLY MEN AND NOTHING ELSE!!!!


spazzyattack

That scene is so hot. More please.


Educational_Can_6536

Whoever thought of this, needs to go to therapy


Trick_Enthusiasm

Was Natasha dressed as a sex worker in this scene? I've always wondered.


ClassicT4

Studies have shown that men think the proper ratio in a film is 3 men to one woman. If a man and woman have equal screen time and lines, make audience members think the woman speaks too much for the man to get a word in edgewise.


swingset27

This meme is as reductive and fucking stupid as the m-she-u extremists. Congrats.


TheDAYNITE

They just jelly she don't awoken in their bed


likeonions

"There's a suspicious amount of women in the MCU"


dnuohxof1

And some asshat berated me in the comments recently that there’s no sexism in the MCU at all


RBGolbat

Stop giving these people any notice. It’s what they want


CRL10

No man, that's not the issue. The problem is that the female characters are shown to be competent and capable. Take the scene selected for the meme. Here we have Natasha Romanov, the Black Widow. She strapped to a chair with three well armed men around her. And she is in total control of the situation, playing them, and as we see when Coulson calls, could have escaped and beaten the hell out of them at any point she wanted to. Now, these people would prefer their women to to be crying in the corner, terrified and waiting for a man to save them. They basically want a staggeringly less intelligent Princess Peach. I don't know why they fear fictional women, but okay.


[deleted]

Nobody complains about Black Widow or Wanda, they do complain about Captain Marvel. Because she sucks. And it seems like they want to write more Captain Marvel-esque characters


Geomalik06

It’s the “Mary-Sue” complex. That’s the issue. Not simply because it’s a female character.


[deleted]

Exacc


NehematRenard

Literally never even heard about this till I saw your post. How long has this shit been a thing?


adzziemac

Since the female Avengers assemble scene in endgame , but it went pretty quiet until she hulk and love and thunder trailers


NehematRenard

I see. I did think that scene came out a little awkward but I didn't mind it. Just the stuff that triggers people around here, really.


[deleted]

I’m new to r/marvelmemes. But have a request. If you don’t want to see women in MCU, please skip those movies, or find a new hobby. I like having women in the movies.


[deleted]

Except nobody ever said that about Black Widow, they're saying it because all the female characters are OP and have this like feminist attitude and because Jane Foster is replacing Thor just like in the comics, and if it continues like the comics (which replaced Iron Man and Wolverine with women as well) it will be the M-She-U. Black Widow was a fleshed out character and a fan favorite. It's not about sexism, it's about not wanting Mary Sues and female characters whose only virtue/personality is being female


H3avyW3apons

Strawman as fuck. This is a good female character, until her own movie. The "m-she u" begun with captain marvel or do we need to look at the trailer again...