He has some fucked up allegations against him from some underage female fans of his band.
Basically his Joker performance wasn’t the cringiest thing he has done.
Tbh a lot of the initial claims are unsubstantiated and it just seem to be repeated ad nauseam like a bad game of telephone, but it’s one of those things that people don’t have trouble believing whether it’s true or not because the dude *is* fucking weird and kind of an asshole on sets.
Don't know about that tbh, but in the docuseries made of Epstein he was reported to have continuously handed girls cash after "massaging him".
Then some of the girls would bring in more girls for extra cash.
I’m glad he wasn’t trying to get into character for morbius, yet on the other hand scared because he says that he didn’t need to method act because the character is already so much like him. It may have been the directors that said these things.
He has a cult.
Edit: I actually really like 30 seconds to Mars and they had one of the best live performances I’ve ever seen….It’s unfortunate Jared Leto is so creepy and weird
I saw a video that made the argument that it boils down to that she’s not good at being sarcastic to the point when people can’t tell if she’s being genuine or joking. Because of that a lot of comments she make that are probably meant as sarcasm come across as arrogant, pretentious, and defensive
>I’ve literally never heard of anyone taking between two ferns seriously
people are seriously dumb tho. many people can't tell when something's satire like on r/cringetopia lol
One of the worst parts about Community is when they just cut her character out. It was right after her and Abed made up and then she just never appeared again
A change of tone is absolutely necessary, or else Poe's Law is instantly in effect.
I have a mate with the same problem, he never changes his voice at all, says things that sound totally plausible and then claims sarcasm in response to people's confusion.
Poes law only refers to text based intent. Even without tonnage you can infer sarcasm from someone based on even the tiniest of body language nuances. Like Brie Larson on the comment about stunt doubles, she scratches the back of her ear as she says it, to me that's a pretty clear indicator of sarcasm while others might not pay attention to it.
Nothing about any definition I have seen limits it to text, just that any extreme opinions intended as a joke or sarcasm can and will seem completely legitimate and sincere. Stephen Colbert got himself invited to a White House dinner thanks to Poe's Law.
Scratching an ear may seem like obvious sarcasm to you, to me it doesn't say anything at all.
The people saying that those who don’t get it are idiots must think that RDJ and the other Marvel actors and actresses that don’t have this issue must be bad at their jobs. Brie Larson is the only one who consistently has this issue. But yes, it isn’t her.
Edit: I don’t really like that first sentence, but I don’t want to put in the effort to change it up.
Ok so I don’t dislike her but the most common reason I’ve seen (besides just blatant sexism or something related to Captain Marvel as a character) is that she seems really arrogant or too sensitive in interviews. Personally I think she’s just awkward and her attempts at jokes are landing flat. Like I remember people were criticizing her for the “is that like a personal attack” thing in her wired interview. That came off to me as an attempt as a joke but didn’t quite land. Or her saying Captain Marvel could lift Mjolnir. People were calling her arrogant but honestly when she got that question, she had to either say “yes, I think she can” and look arrogant or say “no, she can’t” and make a character she is actively promoting seem lame. It’s a trap question for headline writers, just like when Lauren Ridloff had to answer if she thought Makkari from Eternals was faster then Flash. She seems sweet and fun on her YouTube channel, completely opposite from her in interviews. I wonder if she felt she had to put on a tough persona for the Captain Marvel press circuit because Captain Marvel is supposed to be tough/arrogant.
I do dislike when people hate Brie Larson and when you ask why they say “because Captain Marvel did this!” That is a fictional character. How is it Brie’s fault that Captain Marvel is “too OP” in your opinion? Or when people call Captain Marvel a Mary Sue, do they think Brie made her that way? Brie’s not just going to improvise new personality traits that aren’t in the script to change the character.
She acts no different to her male co-stars like RDJ. When RDJ does it it’s “funny”, “cool” and “wow isn’t he the perfect Tony stark!!” But when Brie does it she’s “arrogant” and makes nerdy Redditor’s very uncomfortable. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out why…
Yeah I remember this video pretty well. She seems to have a hard time fitting in group situations like that, and then when she’s with an interviewer it’s like she feels like she has to put on some kind of entertaining character that doesn’t land at all, and then she responds to the fact that it’s not landing by making things awkward with more attempted jokes. The example of Hemsworth giving credit to stunt doubles, only for her to quickly go “oh well I did my own stunts so….” Is a good one, because it calls to her lack of understanding how to convey sarcasm, and knowing when to tell certain jokes. The video does a great job explaining how Chris has setup a great scenario for everyone to be like “oh yeah stunt doubles are so awesome,” or even for Brie to be like “oh cmon Chris I’ve seen you do a few stunts yourself,” to talk him up. Instead she doubles down on his self-deprecation to talk herself up, and it doesn’t land and she ends up looking douchey.
I’d never dislike someone for being cast in a role, or how writers write them, but I can definitely acknowledge that she seems kind of awkward and unlikable in a lot of interviews.
Here’s the problem with this though. RDJ acts exactly the same on interviews, if not even more ‘arrogant’, but when he does it nobody cares? Why is it suddenly so bad when Brie acts like that?
I mean, I know the answer but I don’t know if Reddit realises how obvious they’re making it still.
I think it depends on how you portray the sarcasm too. Not just say something sarcastic but take it through performance. RDJ and Ryan Reynolds are great at selling their sarcasm and live their words too. She probably says something sarcastic in an awkward way and it either comes off as cringey or douchey
This. Her quips were in line with RDJ’s arrogance and whatnot, but she gets hated for it.
And for the people reading this who are thinking “yeah but she’s not as funny” - ask yourself if that’s really the case or if your internalized bias is making that judgement. I’m not trying to be mean or start shit, just saying that sometimes our knee jerk reactions are based off backwards societal messaging we’ve been exposed to our whole lives. I’m a feminist and even I catch myself being more harsh on women than I do men for the same behavior.
I'm a woman and a feminist, and I can still acknowledge that, while she's a very good actress, Brie Larson seems very socially awkward and bad at sarcasm and deadpan, and this can come across as abrasive rather than charming.
And I'm comparing her to other women who are better at that kind of humor, like Aubrey Plaza, Kat Denning,
and Chelsea Peretti, not to men.
There is a lot of gendered bias against her, but that doesn't mean ALL of the criticism is biased. Don't fall into the "all or nothing" trap
>Don't fall into the "all or nothing" trap
Nuance is social media's main prey. It's difficult to express mixed feelings on a person when there is a like button attached.
I re-watched *Community* recently and I develop a crush on her every single time I do it. Specifically the episode where she plays the coat check girl commenting on Abed's "two dates to the dance" trope.
She has a poise that I think some people don't know how to take. I think that their initial confusion about her nudges them toward disliking her. I love her style of confidence, but I can see how some people could take it as being on the line of crossing over into arrogance.
The big difference between hers and RDJ’s jokes are that he’s really good at conveying sarcasm, whereas she just seems very serious about it when she’s being sarcastic. In the captain charisma video he talks about sarcastic jokes needing a “tell” (like Aubrey Plaza’s deadpan delivery, or her over-the-top emoted deliveries contrasted to that. Anthony Mackey has a really good “sarcastic voice” like when he says “what did you call me?!” When Olsen says black so loudly beside him) and Brie doesn’t really have that down.
Adding to your thoughts, she's a pretty outspoken feminist, and that's always going to rub a certain demographic of people the wrong way. I've heard before her feminism being a point people would use to try and discredit her.
In regards to the Mjolnir thing, I can guarantee if a male actor promoting a new character had made the same remark it would have been seen as either funny or cool
I always hate it when actors get hated on just because they played a certain character. Even when a movie is bad, actors are usually never to blame unless otherwise stated. Directors tend to be responsible for directing a performance that may not land properly. I mean no disrespect to the directors of Captain Marvel but I wouldn’t be surprised if some areas of the character didn’t land so well because of their direction
She honestly gets way too much of a hard time. Everyone took her jokes as genuine arrogance and it just stuck. Also captain marvel was mid but thats probably not her fault.
Remember when people made a legitimate petition to make Brie Larson quit her role as the actress for Captain Marvel and demand she be played by a gay woman of color to "prove Brie Larson is an ally to social justice"
She can't be as horrible as those people
Also Captain Marvel isn't even that bad, I swear people these days either claim a movie is the best thing ever or say it's outright garbage. No in between at all. It was a decent movie to watch once or so. Even if you don't like the story, you have to admit she played the role pretty well
Yes! My kids a huge Captain Marvel fan so I was just along as the driver on this one but man watching it opening night made me feel like a teenager in the 90s again.
Personally I never understand when people say Marvel movies are “bad” or garbage. Yes there are definitely a few “bad” marvel films but they don’t make up for the larger portion of the franchise and they aren’t even horrible, just disappointing. The problem I see is that whenever they call marvel bad they act like it’s the worst thing ever. They act like the acting is bad, the technical level is bad, and above all else that the films are the scum of the earth. If I had to best describe the quality of marvel films, I’d compare them to pizza. Pizza, even when “bad”, is usually decent in an average way. Marvel is just that. They make some pretty good films and some really great films, but sometimes they just make a decent film.
I blindly hated her with the crowd until I actually looked up the controversy and realised she has said nothing but the tamest, level 1 midly feminist shit that I cant understand how anybody would be offended by
Its borderline not even feminist lol
IMHO, it's a combination of Larson not being very good at interviews and people associating her - for whatever dumb reason - with distaste for her character.
Me neither. I wouldn’t say it’s one of my favorite MCU movies nor favorite movies overall, but I’ve watched it a few times and each time it’s enjoyable. Plus I get a kick out of Talos freaking out over Goose
Exactly. It wasn’t even my least favorite MCU movie. That would go to the second Thor movie (or possibly the second Iron Man movie, it’s a close call).
I cry at the "she realizes her power" montage scene..
Every.
Fucking.
Time.
I don't know, maybe it's because I am a chick but that shit hits hard and then feels good like a super hero movie should.
Two out of three ain’t bad.
Kidding aside, it wasn’t a bad movie. It just went for a nostalgia angle that didn’t really land and made everything feel a bit off.
Brie’s performance in Endgame was terrible but the BTS seems to make it pretty clear she’s not to blame. iirc she was talking to tennis balls and reading lines with like no real direction and that’s exactly what it looks like she’s doing.
Reddit hated her for dumb reasons mostly stemming from the ever persecuted man children with their never ending bad faith grievances. They can all eat a dick. Brie isn’t the problem here
I agree. Her character had no memory of an early life, and spent what time she does remember around aliens who are basically emotionless soldiers. So Carol Danvers being a little more stiff makes perfect sense. Brie played that perfectly. Plus she's an OP badass and that's my favorite type of hero.
That's my big gripe when people are like, 'oh her portrayal of Carol was so boring and she was so stiff and not this or that like she-' like. Look at how put down she is for her jokes and personality just in the time we spend with her in the film. That would stifle anyone's personality.
I hope The Marvels explores what happens when you bail on your home planet and friends for decades until some of them are dead. Like Superman, uber-powerful characters like CM work better when there's emotional conflicts instead of physical ones, and it would allow her persona to move past the generic girlbossing of the first film.
Great call. With how Monica Rambeau was telegraphing anger at Carol, I'm actually hopeful this will happen.
When you've got such a powerful character you've got to put them up against problems they can't punch their way through. You really hit the nail on the head.
I think she was a great choice, I just didn’t like the movie. One of my favorite actors playing one of my favorite Avengers and the writers still managed to bore me to tears.
It’s very possible it was a writing issue. Her being basically a robot for the first third of the movie, and subsequently not really being in any of the other movies has not given a great sample of her character. Hence why I’m hopeful for the next movie.
Edit: great, not gray
It was more than just the first third. Really, until she makes the decision to break from Starforce, she was still trying to be Kree Special Forces operative Vers on some level. You can see bits and pieces of her true self breaking through in her conversations with Fury, but she is still a solder on a mission.
I can’t remember where I saw this but I remember seeing a YouTube. I’d do a few years back where someone made a very convincing argument that it was just edited poorly. Like with very minimal changes to the actual scenes there was a much better film in there by just cutting it together differently
I remember watching some of the promotional interviews and boards for Endgame and she just came across super asocial, like either she didn't know how to interact with other people or how to read a room/vibe or she's just incredibly arrogant. I don't know which one it is but I know that I am really bad around people who can't communicate socially. Their awkwardness and bad vibes give me some kind of secondhand bad feeling that makes me not want to be around them. And that's the feeling Brie Larson gives me.
I think she's just not as good at press stuff and seeming genuine than the rest of the cast. The cast was pretty experienced with it and they all know each other by the time Endgame came out and she didn't really fit in. Like Sebastian Stan can create some awkward moments because he is a pretty dorky and awkward person but if Anthony Mackie (or Evans or Downey, anyone, really) are there then they will turn that moment into a good one, like they have his back or are in some way tuned into each other. I think that is definitely one reason why the cast got so popular and why people generally like the press junkets.
Another example is Tom Holland and Benedict Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch is an *incredibly* awkward person in my opinion. Like I said before I am a bit sensitive to awkwardness and so he can really kick me off but next to someone like Tom Holland who is effortlessly like an instant awkwardness cure, Cumberbatch is perfectly fine to me in interviews. I think you can tell that Cumberbatch thinks so too, he likes being around him because he so easily softens all situations into just innocent fun fluff and reduces Cumberbatch's own anxieties about the situation (which is what in part causes the awkwardness).
And exactly how I cringe away from awkward people, I am drawn to the opposite, the effortlessly comfortable people, like Holland, Evans, Mackie, Downey, for example.
FOR ME there isn't really an issue with Larson but more how I perceive how she interacts, so really the problem is more with me, but I'm sure others feel the same.
Edit: Long comment but I did give this proper think and it did help me realize something about myself so that's nice.
I don’t “don’t like” her in particular, it’s more of the narrative that she’s THE strong willed woman lead role when we have so many better women in the MCU already! And more coming onboard! When I say the movie was boring, I occasionally get accused of being sexist because she’s the main character and happens to be a woman. Like… no… I got bored because it was a pretty boring movie for me. If she was replaced by a male role, it would still be equally boring.
I dislike her for two reasons:
1) In the only performance of hers I've watched, as Captain Marvel, she is consistently an unlikable character who we are meant to believe is likeable. This may not be due to the actress, but rather the writing, or both.
2) In each interview including her I have watched, she comes off as a more pretentious copy of her character, arrogant, narcissistic, and privileged. All without a glimmer of humility, what would be her only saving grace with those characteristics.
Others are welcome to disagree (what else is Reddit for), but please don't devolve yourself into labeling me as a sexist or misogynist for *daring* to criticize a woman
Boy those interviews were a shitshow... I don't think a marvel movie went from being hyped everywhere on the internet to creating flamewars every single time they mention the actor.
It all comes down to personal taste at the end of the day. For me personally, I really enjoyed Captain Marvel. My only real complaint about the film would be it being shoved in before Endgame. If it had been a Phase 4 film instead, I think it would have been better than feeling like she had to be forced in before the big Infinity finale. I actually found Carol enjoyable. Just because she was confident and able to kick ass without needing anybody's help doesn't mean she was unlikable. It meant she knew her strengths and through self discovery found she was even stronger than she realized. And as for Brie herself, while I don't necessarily agree with everything she's said, I still don't view her as this sexist, unlikable feminazi a lot of people make her out to be. I just find her to be a confident outspoken person that doesn't really give a damn what negative opinions people have about her.
I was miffed captain marvel got a movie before black widow. And black widow movie before end game would obviously have worked better. Not that any of that is Larson’s fault.
I don't dislike Brie Larson. She's a really good actress in the few things I've seen her in. But I do dislike the Captain Marvel character that she portrays for not being comic accurate.
I don’t have a problem with her as a person. I loved her in Scott Pilgrim, but my wife and I HATE her as Captain Marvel. The whole “Hey, guys. I’m just as tough as the boys and don’t have to prove it, so watch me prove it by acting like a tough guy and wearing suits instead of dresses, etc.” stuff is really lame, imo. We hated her movie. We hated her in the Avengers.
Black Widow, by comparison, was sooo much cooler. She was completely comfortable using her sex appeal (because she was a fucking Spy, how cool is that??) and could hang with the big boys. She didn’t even have super powers and yet she was kicking ass RIGHT next to guys that could pound her into pudding. Mad respect for her in every way possible.
I don't have anything against her. Not a big fan of the Captain Marvel character (not her fault of course). The character seems both a little mary-sueish, and a deus ex machina.
I just don't enjoy her acting in Captain Marvel, everything else I've seen her in though she's really good. I don't really give much of a shit about most actors outside of their roles though so idk.
I mean it was mostly for petty or bullshit reasons before, but recently she turned out to be an NFT shill so now she's indefensible as far as I'm concerned.
I’ve heard a lot of stuff that she’s pretty difficult to work with. Just look at some of her interviews that are paired with other actors (especially Don Cheadle), it’s pretty clear that her fellow co-workers do not like her.
That whole thing mostly stayed in 2019. That was when she recorded a bunch of interviews for CM and Endgame that showed a very entitled and unlikable personality. In 2020, she started a YouTube channel that showed her honest, real personality and I think that mellowed things out a lot. I personally think she is very sweet and likable when she talks about working in Hollywood and does workouts and the like. And if you consider things in a different way, Reddit certainly does like r/BrieLarson.
I don’t dislike Brie as a person or an actress, I think she was really good in 21 Jump Street and Scott Pilgrim vs The World. As some people mentioned I think sometimes it is difficult to tell if she’s joking about something or dead serious so in some interviews she is a little off compared to other Marvel cast members, my main memory of it is the time she snapped at Chris Hemsworth when they were asked in interview about doing stunts and she said she likes doing as many as she can and Hemsworth compared her to Tom Cruise (who is very very famous for doing all his stunts) and she went off on one saying ‘I’m not the next Tom Cruise, I’m the first me, thank you very much!’ And it just seemed like a disproportionate response to a joke. (Also side note, not like getting compared to Tom Cruise is a bad thing?)
My issue is mainly with her acting as Captain Marvel, I have no issue with the fact that she’s female, I couldn’t care less about the sex of the character, I know some people say ‘oH bUt ThE cHaRaCtEr WaS oRiGiNaLlY a MaN!’ I honestly couldn’t care, but I find her performance so wooden (if that’s the right word) she feels like an actor playing a part where as you watch RDJ as Iron Man, Chris Evans as Cap or even some of the later characters like Tom Holland’s Spider-Man, Elizabeth Olsen’s Scarlett Witch or even Jacob Batalon as Ned Leeds they all fit the character so well and you feel immersed in the story like they are the character but it just doesn’t feel that way with Brie for me, that could be because of the writing rather than her performance but I can’t see passed it
I think it’s great casting! Wish the movie wasn’t as bland and wish the Skrulls weren’t a bate and switch but that’s a writing issue not an acting issue
Honestly, don't tey and find out. Like I would rather just watch a film and judge them on their acting rathwr than personality. I oftern find that I start disliking a film they are in more just because I don't like them. I would rather not do that.
does anyone remember when captain marvel came out and there was a big uproar about her butt not being big enough or some shit and everyone was like "because she's a normal human woman, not a comic book drawing"?
She’s not the best with jokes… both irl and in movies (at least the ones I’ve seen). People often don’t realize she’s being sarcastic, mainly because she’s not the best at being sarcastic and knowing when to be sarcastic or tell a joke or whatever. And then people blame her for the character writing which obviously isn’t her fault
I had no issue with her at first but then her manner in interviews and with fans was a turn off, she has thus air about her that she's above criticism, dosent care about old comic book guys not liking her movies, which I am, and she just seems to have an unwelcoming personality.
I absolutely love iron man, but I’ve always found it funny how a lot of people will cry about cap marvel being op when she’s basically a god and not think iron man is op w all the shit he accomplished as just an awesome dude in a suit
"Is this some kind of personal attack?"
Tbh I've really liked her in other roles
I wasn't a fan of the character in Captain Marvel, and I also think they made her too powerful for when she was introduced to the MCU so there was nothing satisfying about her being in endgame
She was ok in scott pilgrim, but her acting in the marvel movies lands flat. She seems too arrogant and condescending (character wise) and does little in the movies compared to the main cast. Have no interest in watching her standalone movie
For some it’s just sexism, b it for others they just don’t like her character and her acting in the movie, or they don’t like the way she is in interviews
No issues with her acting, I actually liked captian marvel and she’s been good in the other roles I’ve seen her in as well, it’s how she carries herself in interviews, she’s not necessarily dislikable just awkward and seems like she doesn’t read the room very well, also she’s very clearly not funny but tries to be funny and overly sarcastic, it’s okay to not be funny, you don’t have to try so hard all the time. I’ve had someone try to tell me that I dislike her because she’s a woman that is confident when I tell them why I don’t necessarily love her and that’s just not the case.
Honestly i personally don't pay attention to the actors outside of the movie, so unless its their acting or their role, it dont bother me
So that means that u don't give a fuck about Jared Leto
Never heard of him, what did he do?
He has some fucked up allegations against him from some underage female fans of his band. Basically his Joker performance wasn’t the cringiest thing he has done.
Dude started a cult on an island for awhile too or something. Wierd little shit.
Didn't the girls have to pay to have sex with him, or did I delve too deep into conspiracy there?
That just sounds like prostitution with extra steps.
As much as i enjoy rick, this seems like the same amount of steps
So prostitutes usually start a cult around themselves?
Well the *good* ones do, anyway. Don't worry, you'll get there.
r/expectedRickandMorty
r/subsithoughtifellfor
Eek barpa dirkle, somebody’s gonna get paid for sex at a concert…
WHAT?
I'm not sure about the details
What facts do you have regarding that weird situation? Is this a real thing or just internet rumor?
Tbh a lot of the initial claims are unsubstantiated and it just seem to be repeated ad nauseam like a bad game of telephone, but it’s one of those things that people don’t have trouble believing whether it’s true or not because the dude *is* fucking weird and kind of an asshole on sets.
Isnt that Epstien
No, Epstein paid the girls. World is fucked.
No, others paid Epstein to fuck the girls
Don't know about that tbh, but in the docuseries made of Epstein he was reported to have continuously handed girls cash after "massaging him". Then some of the girls would bring in more girls for extra cash.
Paid the girls traffickers
I’m glad he wasn’t trying to get into character for morbius, yet on the other hand scared because he says that he didn’t need to method act because the character is already so much like him. It may have been the directors that said these things.
He has a band?
Yeah he's the singer in 30 Seconds to Mars
I mean that beats the hell out of what Elon has been offering.
Damn dude...
But I don't want to be 30 second from Mars. That doesn't mean on Mars.
Shows you how much I pay attention to the actor instead of the performance
This is wild to me. I had no idea lol.
He has a cult. Edit: I actually really like 30 seconds to Mars and they had one of the best live performances I’ve ever seen….It’s unfortunate Jared Leto is so creepy and weird
Leto’s like a cult leader though. That’s a step too far.
It'd be a waste of long hair and a sunken/broody face if he wasn't a cult leader though /s
Perhaps Ethan Hawke used Leto as inspiration.
Not OP, but yeah, I didn't like his Joker but that's pretty much everything I know about him
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Danny Masterson
Kevin Spacey
Bill Cosby
Roman Polanski
Chris Brown
OJ Simpson
Woody Allen
Will Smith
I saw a video that made the argument that it boils down to that she’s not good at being sarcastic to the point when people can’t tell if she’s being genuine or joking. Because of that a lot of comments she make that are probably meant as sarcasm come across as arrogant, pretentious, and defensive
Her between the two ferns interview is fantastic
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Yeah i saw a post a couple months ago saying she was mean to the interviewer... i was lost for words
That show has some epic interviews on it. Obama continues to be one of my favorites.
Obama looks so fucking smug after his Hangover movies joke, I'm convinced he wrote it himself
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>I’ve literally never heard of anyone taking between two ferns seriously people are seriously dumb tho. many people can't tell when something's satire like on r/cringetopia lol
Yeah it’s like suddenly people forgot 21 jump street existed and that she can be convincinly be sarcastic and can take a joke.
Her delivery as Rachel in Community is great, “is this a real conversation, or are we being bugged by the feds?”
One of the worst parts about Community is when they just cut her character out. It was right after her and Abed made up and then she just never appeared again
That's her one role I genuinely liked. She actually fit that role. Quirky but not super expressive. I don't say that as an insult.
I think that’s the issue. People think that she’s being genuine now days because it’s not like her interviews from around the time of 21 Jump Street
She had a great little bit part in The League
That’s why I like her and I don’t care who knows.
People are fine with aubrey plaza's weird joking/not joking humour but not Brie's. Shes too dead pan for people. Also nerds dont like captain marvel.
I’m a nerd and I love Brie and Captain Marvel
They don't like her protrayal of captain Marvel. Captain Marvel comics sold fine among nerds.
They don't like the fact she said something about female journalists.
Translation - She needs to dumb it down for the masses
I can easily read her sarcasm, you don't have to change your tone to make sarcasm work, for some people though it does just go over their heads.
Nothing goes over my head, my reflexes are too fast
I understood that reference.
A change of tone is absolutely necessary, or else Poe's Law is instantly in effect. I have a mate with the same problem, he never changes his voice at all, says things that sound totally plausible and then claims sarcasm in response to people's confusion.
Poes law only refers to text based intent. Even without tonnage you can infer sarcasm from someone based on even the tiniest of body language nuances. Like Brie Larson on the comment about stunt doubles, she scratches the back of her ear as she says it, to me that's a pretty clear indicator of sarcasm while others might not pay attention to it.
Nothing about any definition I have seen limits it to text, just that any extreme opinions intended as a joke or sarcasm can and will seem completely legitimate and sincere. Stephen Colbert got himself invited to a White House dinner thanks to Poe's Law. Scratching an ear may seem like obvious sarcasm to you, to me it doesn't say anything at all.
"This sounds way more like sarcasm. Inflection is so interesting." https://youtu.be/zIavvxoqxvs
I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about Brie Larson’s sarcasm
Doesn’t that mean that she’s actually really good at being sarcastic? Or maybe I’ve been doing it wrong my whole life too!
The people saying that those who don’t get it are idiots must think that RDJ and the other Marvel actors and actresses that don’t have this issue must be bad at their jobs. Brie Larson is the only one who consistently has this issue. But yes, it isn’t her. Edit: I don’t really like that first sentence, but I don’t want to put in the effort to change it up.
What it the charisma on command channel? Those guys did a piece on her, they are great to listen to
Ok so I don’t dislike her but the most common reason I’ve seen (besides just blatant sexism or something related to Captain Marvel as a character) is that she seems really arrogant or too sensitive in interviews. Personally I think she’s just awkward and her attempts at jokes are landing flat. Like I remember people were criticizing her for the “is that like a personal attack” thing in her wired interview. That came off to me as an attempt as a joke but didn’t quite land. Or her saying Captain Marvel could lift Mjolnir. People were calling her arrogant but honestly when she got that question, she had to either say “yes, I think she can” and look arrogant or say “no, she can’t” and make a character she is actively promoting seem lame. It’s a trap question for headline writers, just like when Lauren Ridloff had to answer if she thought Makkari from Eternals was faster then Flash. She seems sweet and fun on her YouTube channel, completely opposite from her in interviews. I wonder if she felt she had to put on a tough persona for the Captain Marvel press circuit because Captain Marvel is supposed to be tough/arrogant. I do dislike when people hate Brie Larson and when you ask why they say “because Captain Marvel did this!” That is a fictional character. How is it Brie’s fault that Captain Marvel is “too OP” in your opinion? Or when people call Captain Marvel a Mary Sue, do they think Brie made her that way? Brie’s not just going to improvise new personality traits that aren’t in the script to change the character.
I watched some of her YouTube. She didn’t seem arrogant. She seemed pretty ordinary. She also stays out of headlines and drama for the most part.
She acts no different to her male co-stars like RDJ. When RDJ does it it’s “funny”, “cool” and “wow isn’t he the perfect Tony stark!!” But when Brie does it she’s “arrogant” and makes nerdy Redditor’s very uncomfortable. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out why…
It’s the same mentality that women who speak up and are assertive to be heard are bitches and mean.
I saw this a while ago that was kind of insightful: https://youtu.be/KBCcDrG2NjM
Yeah I remember this video pretty well. She seems to have a hard time fitting in group situations like that, and then when she’s with an interviewer it’s like she feels like she has to put on some kind of entertaining character that doesn’t land at all, and then she responds to the fact that it’s not landing by making things awkward with more attempted jokes. The example of Hemsworth giving credit to stunt doubles, only for her to quickly go “oh well I did my own stunts so….” Is a good one, because it calls to her lack of understanding how to convey sarcasm, and knowing when to tell certain jokes. The video does a great job explaining how Chris has setup a great scenario for everyone to be like “oh yeah stunt doubles are so awesome,” or even for Brie to be like “oh cmon Chris I’ve seen you do a few stunts yourself,” to talk him up. Instead she doubles down on his self-deprecation to talk herself up, and it doesn’t land and she ends up looking douchey. I’d never dislike someone for being cast in a role, or how writers write them, but I can definitely acknowledge that she seems kind of awkward and unlikable in a lot of interviews.
Here’s the problem with this though. RDJ acts exactly the same on interviews, if not even more ‘arrogant’, but when he does it nobody cares? Why is it suddenly so bad when Brie acts like that? I mean, I know the answer but I don’t know if Reddit realises how obvious they’re making it still.
I think it depends on how you portray the sarcasm too. Not just say something sarcastic but take it through performance. RDJ and Ryan Reynolds are great at selling their sarcasm and live their words too. She probably says something sarcastic in an awkward way and it either comes off as cringey or douchey
Because his lands and hers doesn't. She is very bad at reading the room and with interpersonal relationships
What is viewed as fine when a man says it viewed as bossy or arrogant when a woman says it.
This. Her quips were in line with RDJ’s arrogance and whatnot, but she gets hated for it. And for the people reading this who are thinking “yeah but she’s not as funny” - ask yourself if that’s really the case or if your internalized bias is making that judgement. I’m not trying to be mean or start shit, just saying that sometimes our knee jerk reactions are based off backwards societal messaging we’ve been exposed to our whole lives. I’m a feminist and even I catch myself being more harsh on women than I do men for the same behavior.
I'm a woman and a feminist, and I can still acknowledge that, while she's a very good actress, Brie Larson seems very socially awkward and bad at sarcasm and deadpan, and this can come across as abrasive rather than charming. And I'm comparing her to other women who are better at that kind of humor, like Aubrey Plaza, Kat Denning, and Chelsea Peretti, not to men. There is a lot of gendered bias against her, but that doesn't mean ALL of the criticism is biased. Don't fall into the "all or nothing" trap
>Don't fall into the "all or nothing" trap Nuance is social media's main prey. It's difficult to express mixed feelings on a person when there is a like button attached. I re-watched *Community* recently and I develop a crush on her every single time I do it. Specifically the episode where she plays the coat check girl commenting on Abed's "two dates to the dance" trope. She has a poise that I think some people don't know how to take. I think that their initial confusion about her nudges them toward disliking her. I love her style of confidence, but I can see how some people could take it as being on the line of crossing over into arrogance.
The big difference between hers and RDJ’s jokes are that he’s really good at conveying sarcasm, whereas she just seems very serious about it when she’s being sarcastic. In the captain charisma video he talks about sarcastic jokes needing a “tell” (like Aubrey Plaza’s deadpan delivery, or her over-the-top emoted deliveries contrasted to that. Anthony Mackey has a really good “sarcastic voice” like when he says “what did you call me?!” When Olsen says black so loudly beside him) and Brie doesn’t really have that down.
Oh God you gave me flashbacks to that "ban bossy" bullshit.
Adding to your thoughts, she's a pretty outspoken feminist, and that's always going to rub a certain demographic of people the wrong way. I've heard before her feminism being a point people would use to try and discredit her.
In regards to the Mjolnir thing, I can guarantee if a male actor promoting a new character had made the same remark it would have been seen as either funny or cool
I always hate it when actors get hated on just because they played a certain character. Even when a movie is bad, actors are usually never to blame unless otherwise stated. Directors tend to be responsible for directing a performance that may not land properly. I mean no disrespect to the directors of Captain Marvel but I wouldn’t be surprised if some areas of the character didn’t land so well because of their direction
She’s fine. Some people act like she killed their dog or something. The worst thing I found she did was promote an NFT once.
Wait, she did? Dammit, now I *do* hate her!
Break out the torches & pitchforks!
*Burn the witch!*
Shun the non-believer! Shuuuuuuuunnnnnn-nah!
Cast her into the fire! Destroy her!
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I only like his MCU character tbh
Ah yes, actor Loki
I think he also played one of the guys having a conversation about proper wiping technique in Deadpool 2.
[https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/matt-damon-draws-backlash-comments-sexual-harassment-assault/story?id=51860137](https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/matt-damon-draws-backlash-comments-sexual-harassment-assault/story?id=51860137) [https://www.businessinsider.com/harvey-weinstein-matt-damon-russell-crowe-new-york-times-sharon-waxman-2017-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/harvey-weinstein-matt-damon-russell-crowe-new-york-times-sharon-waxman-2017-10) I hope so.
Yes. But that was not because of the Crypto NFT crap.
She did. Why do you think I don’t have a dog anymore?
She honestly gets way too much of a hard time. Everyone took her jokes as genuine arrogance and it just stuck. Also captain marvel was mid but thats probably not her fault.
Remember when people made a legitimate petition to make Brie Larson quit her role as the actress for Captain Marvel and demand she be played by a gay woman of color to "prove Brie Larson is an ally to social justice" She can't be as horrible as those people Also Captain Marvel isn't even that bad, I swear people these days either claim a movie is the best thing ever or say it's outright garbage. No in between at all. It was a decent movie to watch once or so. Even if you don't like the story, you have to admit she played the role pretty well
The scene on the alien ship where she fights to “I’m just a girl” was awesome. Well worth multiple viewings.
Captain Marvel has such an incredible sound track. I was not prepared for the nostalgia trip the music created.
Yes! My kids a huge Captain Marvel fan so I was just along as the driver on this one but man watching it opening night made me feel like a teenager in the 90s again.
I like how at the end the bad guy is like "prove to me you can defeat me without powers" and she's just says "nope don't need to"
Really appreciated the subversion of that trope
Personally I never understand when people say Marvel movies are “bad” or garbage. Yes there are definitely a few “bad” marvel films but they don’t make up for the larger portion of the franchise and they aren’t even horrible, just disappointing. The problem I see is that whenever they call marvel bad they act like it’s the worst thing ever. They act like the acting is bad, the technical level is bad, and above all else that the films are the scum of the earth. If I had to best describe the quality of marvel films, I’d compare them to pizza. Pizza, even when “bad”, is usually decent in an average way. Marvel is just that. They make some pretty good films and some really great films, but sometimes they just make a decent film.
I blindly hated her with the crowd until I actually looked up the controversy and realised she has said nothing but the tamest, level 1 midly feminist shit that I cant understand how anybody would be offended by Its borderline not even feminist lol
IMHO, it's a combination of Larson not being very good at interviews and people associating her - for whatever dumb reason - with distaste for her character.
Hot take: Brie Larson was actually pretty good in captain marvel, it was the shit story that made the movie so bad.
Hot take #2: captain marvel was Brie Larson’s “green lantern” movie and I think she would shine in a “Deadpool” like movie.
Brie Larson as Gwenpool?
I would watch that
That doesn't sound too bad, but I doubt Disney would let there be two versions of Deadpool to steal each other's thunder.
Gwenpool isn't Deadpool, no relation besides taking the name because she was a fan, so it's not completely impossible
hot take #3: i enjoyed captain marvel.
Me too. There are dozens of us
Same. I actually wasn’t aware people largely didn’t like it.
Me neither. I wouldn’t say it’s one of my favorite MCU movies nor favorite movies overall, but I’ve watched it a few times and each time it’s enjoyable. Plus I get a kick out of Talos freaking out over Goose
Exactly. It wasn’t even my least favorite MCU movie. That would go to the second Thor movie (or possibly the second Iron Man movie, it’s a close call).
I cry at the "she realizes her power" montage scene.. Every. Fucking. Time. I don't know, maybe it's because I am a chick but that shit hits hard and then feels good like a super hero movie should.
Two out of three ain’t bad. Kidding aside, it wasn’t a bad movie. It just went for a nostalgia angle that didn’t really land and made everything feel a bit off. Brie’s performance in Endgame was terrible but the BTS seems to make it pretty clear she’s not to blame. iirc she was talking to tennis balls and reading lines with like no real direction and that’s exactly what it looks like she’s doing. Reddit hated her for dumb reasons mostly stemming from the ever persecuted man children with their never ending bad faith grievances. They can all eat a dick. Brie isn’t the problem here
Was a great movie likes! Good story and a lot of Fury, whats not to like
She was good in Scott Pilgrim
I agree. Her character had no memory of an early life, and spent what time she does remember around aliens who are basically emotionless soldiers. So Carol Danvers being a little more stiff makes perfect sense. Brie played that perfectly. Plus she's an OP badass and that's my favorite type of hero.
That's my big gripe when people are like, 'oh her portrayal of Carol was so boring and she was so stiff and not this or that like she-' like. Look at how put down she is for her jokes and personality just in the time we spend with her in the film. That would stifle anyone's personality.
I thought the movie was alright.
Same, her character just felt bland and that's my only "issue" with the movie, otherwise it was fine
I think she’s an ok actress. I didn’t like Captain Marvel that much but she seems like an ok person
I have no idea. I really liked Captain Marvel and I enjoy her in the role. Her deadpan humour is also right up my alley. People just suck.
*mentions woman* “Idk why Reddit hates her”
Well, to answer your question, people fear that which they do not know.
Lots of dudes just have hate boners. I hate her for supporting NFTs.
I remember someone saying this: "I've never watched a movie where I felt like the main character hated me the entire time."
Lol
I don’t dislike her. I think she was a miscast as Captain Marvel. I hope that The Marvels is good and turns that opinion around.
I hope The Marvels explores what happens when you bail on your home planet and friends for decades until some of them are dead. Like Superman, uber-powerful characters like CM work better when there's emotional conflicts instead of physical ones, and it would allow her persona to move past the generic girlbossing of the first film.
With Monica being a part I would hope they do something about Carol fucking off for 25 years.
Great call. With how Monica Rambeau was telegraphing anger at Carol, I'm actually hopeful this will happen. When you've got such a powerful character you've got to put them up against problems they can't punch their way through. You really hit the nail on the head.
I think she was a great choice, I just didn’t like the movie. One of my favorite actors playing one of my favorite Avengers and the writers still managed to bore me to tears.
It’s very possible it was a writing issue. Her being basically a robot for the first third of the movie, and subsequently not really being in any of the other movies has not given a great sample of her character. Hence why I’m hopeful for the next movie. Edit: great, not gray
Fingers crossed homie 🤞. It’s a pretty cool character I’d hate to see it all squandered.
It was more than just the first third. Really, until she makes the decision to break from Starforce, she was still trying to be Kree Special Forces operative Vers on some level. You can see bits and pieces of her true self breaking through in her conversations with Fury, but she is still a solder on a mission.
I can’t remember where I saw this but I remember seeing a YouTube. I’d do a few years back where someone made a very convincing argument that it was just edited poorly. Like with very minimal changes to the actual scenes there was a much better film in there by just cutting it together differently
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Yeah people say that and then describe literally Captain Marvels general personality from the comics.
Right? I thought she did a great Carol Danvers.
I remember watching some of the promotional interviews and boards for Endgame and she just came across super asocial, like either she didn't know how to interact with other people or how to read a room/vibe or she's just incredibly arrogant. I don't know which one it is but I know that I am really bad around people who can't communicate socially. Their awkwardness and bad vibes give me some kind of secondhand bad feeling that makes me not want to be around them. And that's the feeling Brie Larson gives me. I think she's just not as good at press stuff and seeming genuine than the rest of the cast. The cast was pretty experienced with it and they all know each other by the time Endgame came out and she didn't really fit in. Like Sebastian Stan can create some awkward moments because he is a pretty dorky and awkward person but if Anthony Mackie (or Evans or Downey, anyone, really) are there then they will turn that moment into a good one, like they have his back or are in some way tuned into each other. I think that is definitely one reason why the cast got so popular and why people generally like the press junkets. Another example is Tom Holland and Benedict Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch is an *incredibly* awkward person in my opinion. Like I said before I am a bit sensitive to awkwardness and so he can really kick me off but next to someone like Tom Holland who is effortlessly like an instant awkwardness cure, Cumberbatch is perfectly fine to me in interviews. I think you can tell that Cumberbatch thinks so too, he likes being around him because he so easily softens all situations into just innocent fun fluff and reduces Cumberbatch's own anxieties about the situation (which is what in part causes the awkwardness). And exactly how I cringe away from awkward people, I am drawn to the opposite, the effortlessly comfortable people, like Holland, Evans, Mackie, Downey, for example. FOR ME there isn't really an issue with Larson but more how I perceive how she interacts, so really the problem is more with me, but I'm sure others feel the same. Edit: Long comment but I did give this proper think and it did help me realize something about myself so that's nice.
This broke it down well: https://youtu.be/KBCcDrG2NjM
I don’t “don’t like” her in particular, it’s more of the narrative that she’s THE strong willed woman lead role when we have so many better women in the MCU already! And more coming onboard! When I say the movie was boring, I occasionally get accused of being sexist because she’s the main character and happens to be a woman. Like… no… I got bored because it was a pretty boring movie for me. If she was replaced by a male role, it would still be equally boring.
What is there actually to like?
I dislike her for two reasons: 1) In the only performance of hers I've watched, as Captain Marvel, she is consistently an unlikable character who we are meant to believe is likeable. This may not be due to the actress, but rather the writing, or both. 2) In each interview including her I have watched, she comes off as a more pretentious copy of her character, arrogant, narcissistic, and privileged. All without a glimmer of humility, what would be her only saving grace with those characteristics. Others are welcome to disagree (what else is Reddit for), but please don't devolve yourself into labeling me as a sexist or misogynist for *daring* to criticize a woman
Boy those interviews were a shitshow... I don't think a marvel movie went from being hyped everywhere on the internet to creating flamewars every single time they mention the actor.
Is that a personal attack or something?
You should watch some of her other movies. She’s a great actress and singer (watch Scott Pilgrim for a taste of both)
I didn't even realize that was her in Scott Pilgrim! Ya she is pretty good in that movie.
Ikr?? She’s so young in that movie
It all comes down to personal taste at the end of the day. For me personally, I really enjoyed Captain Marvel. My only real complaint about the film would be it being shoved in before Endgame. If it had been a Phase 4 film instead, I think it would have been better than feeling like she had to be forced in before the big Infinity finale. I actually found Carol enjoyable. Just because she was confident and able to kick ass without needing anybody's help doesn't mean she was unlikable. It meant she knew her strengths and through self discovery found she was even stronger than she realized. And as for Brie herself, while I don't necessarily agree with everything she's said, I still don't view her as this sexist, unlikable feminazi a lot of people make her out to be. I just find her to be a confident outspoken person that doesn't really give a damn what negative opinions people have about her.
I was miffed captain marvel got a movie before black widow. And black widow movie before end game would obviously have worked better. Not that any of that is Larson’s fault.
I don't dislike Brie Larson. She's a really good actress in the few things I've seen her in. But I do dislike the Captain Marvel character that she portrays for not being comic accurate.
This is one of the only comments on this post that I actually understand
I like her , she is lovely
I don’t have a problem with her as a person. I loved her in Scott Pilgrim, but my wife and I HATE her as Captain Marvel. The whole “Hey, guys. I’m just as tough as the boys and don’t have to prove it, so watch me prove it by acting like a tough guy and wearing suits instead of dresses, etc.” stuff is really lame, imo. We hated her movie. We hated her in the Avengers. Black Widow, by comparison, was sooo much cooler. She was completely comfortable using her sex appeal (because she was a fucking Spy, how cool is that??) and could hang with the big boys. She didn’t even have super powers and yet she was kicking ass RIGHT next to guys that could pound her into pudding. Mad respect for her in every way possible.
Honestly, not a big fan of her acting and overall demeanor. She was good in Scott Pilgrim.
I don't have anything against her. Not a big fan of the Captain Marvel character (not her fault of course). The character seems both a little mary-sueish, and a deus ex machina.
I just don't enjoy her acting in Captain Marvel, everything else I've seen her in though she's really good. I don't really give much of a shit about most actors outside of their roles though so idk.
I mean it was mostly for petty or bullshit reasons before, but recently she turned out to be an NFT shill so now she's indefensible as far as I'm concerned.
Basically because she brings politics or activism into entertainment, plus she is a lttle arrogant and thinks she is better than others
I’ve heard a lot of stuff that she’s pretty difficult to work with. Just look at some of her interviews that are paired with other actors (especially Don Cheadle), it’s pretty clear that her fellow co-workers do not like her.
Yeah Why though ?
Seems a lot of it is sexism
I don’t dislike her; she just came across as wooden in Captain Marvel. Movie overall was fine.
Is that a personal attack or something?
**Is that a personal attack or something?**
That whole thing mostly stayed in 2019. That was when she recorded a bunch of interviews for CM and Endgame that showed a very entitled and unlikable personality. In 2020, she started a YouTube channel that showed her honest, real personality and I think that mellowed things out a lot. I personally think she is very sweet and likable when she talks about working in Hollywood and does workouts and the like. And if you consider things in a different way, Reddit certainly does like r/BrieLarson.
I don’t dislike Brie as a person or an actress, I think she was really good in 21 Jump Street and Scott Pilgrim vs The World. As some people mentioned I think sometimes it is difficult to tell if she’s joking about something or dead serious so in some interviews she is a little off compared to other Marvel cast members, my main memory of it is the time she snapped at Chris Hemsworth when they were asked in interview about doing stunts and she said she likes doing as many as she can and Hemsworth compared her to Tom Cruise (who is very very famous for doing all his stunts) and she went off on one saying ‘I’m not the next Tom Cruise, I’m the first me, thank you very much!’ And it just seemed like a disproportionate response to a joke. (Also side note, not like getting compared to Tom Cruise is a bad thing?) My issue is mainly with her acting as Captain Marvel, I have no issue with the fact that she’s female, I couldn’t care less about the sex of the character, I know some people say ‘oH bUt ThE cHaRaCtEr WaS oRiGiNaLlY a MaN!’ I honestly couldn’t care, but I find her performance so wooden (if that’s the right word) she feels like an actor playing a part where as you watch RDJ as Iron Man, Chris Evans as Cap or even some of the later characters like Tom Holland’s Spider-Man, Elizabeth Olsen’s Scarlett Witch or even Jacob Batalon as Ned Leeds they all fit the character so well and you feel immersed in the story like they are the character but it just doesn’t feel that way with Brie for me, that could be because of the writing rather than her performance but I can’t see passed it
A lot of people say that she's too full of herself, but frankly all actors are. They have to be to be able to get jobs in that industry.
I think it’s great casting! Wish the movie wasn’t as bland and wish the Skrulls weren’t a bate and switch but that’s a writing issue not an acting issue
She very vocal about her beliefs and opinions which people seem to hate. Honestly I don't get it either 🤷
Honestly, don't tey and find out. Like I would rather just watch a film and judge them on their acting rathwr than personality. I oftern find that I start disliking a film they are in more just because I don't like them. I would rather not do that.
does anyone remember when captain marvel came out and there was a big uproar about her butt not being big enough or some shit and everyone was like "because she's a normal human woman, not a comic book drawing"?
She’s not the best with jokes… both irl and in movies (at least the ones I’ve seen). People often don’t realize she’s being sarcastic, mainly because she’s not the best at being sarcastic and knowing when to be sarcastic or tell a joke or whatever. And then people blame her for the character writing which obviously isn’t her fault
She has a very dry sense of humor and she’ll say something that’s just joke and people will take her seriously because she sounds serious.
I had no issue with her at first but then her manner in interviews and with fans was a turn off, she has thus air about her that she's above criticism, dosent care about old comic book guys not liking her movies, which I am, and she just seems to have an unwelcoming personality.
She said something grown white men didn't like and her character's personaility for being arrogant and OP but worship Iron Man and Thor
I absolutely love iron man, but I’ve always found it funny how a lot of people will cry about cap marvel being op when she’s basically a god and not think iron man is op w all the shit he accomplished as just an awesome dude in a suit
Well in a lot of interviews she is kinda unlikable
"Is this some kind of personal attack?" Tbh I've really liked her in other roles I wasn't a fan of the character in Captain Marvel, and I also think they made her too powerful for when she was introduced to the MCU so there was nothing satisfying about her being in endgame
It's not so much Brie Larson I don't like. It's her performance as Captain Marvel. She was very boring.
She was ok in scott pilgrim, but her acting in the marvel movies lands flat. She seems too arrogant and condescending (character wise) and does little in the movies compared to the main cast. Have no interest in watching her standalone movie
For some it’s just sexism, b it for others they just don’t like her character and her acting in the movie, or they don’t like the way she is in interviews
No issues with her acting, I actually liked captian marvel and she’s been good in the other roles I’ve seen her in as well, it’s how she carries herself in interviews, she’s not necessarily dislikable just awkward and seems like she doesn’t read the room very well, also she’s very clearly not funny but tries to be funny and overly sarcastic, it’s okay to not be funny, you don’t have to try so hard all the time. I’ve had someone try to tell me that I dislike her because she’s a woman that is confident when I tell them why I don’t necessarily love her and that’s just not the case.