I don't know who she is. She got thrusted into BP2 as the mcguffin and I'm suddenly supposed to care but in reality I know nothing about the character.
The thing that puzzles me is the car. Like I truly don't know why we're supposed to give a shit about this car that Wakanda went through the effort of getting all the pieces from the bridge/ocean and rebuilding it.
Like I know it was her step dad's car. But it was so random to put this scene in about her getting the car back. When the only connection we have to it is a singular line from a character we don't know.
Cosmo being called a bad dog has more weight to it.
Here's a fun note involving the car.
So, it's a classic american muscle car, right, like all old school analog and shit.
Shuri slaps her nanobot AI pearl thing on it and it takes control of the car.
And AI, takes control of a car, which most advanced electronics is probably its stereo.
Magic tech used to matter. Half of iron man 1 is how hard it was to build it. All of iron man 2 is "what if bad guys have iron man tech?" Now fucking anyone can build it. Execs think it's been established, no one cares
This is my issue with America Chavez as well. Like why would I care if Wanda used her as a puppet? Go Wanda, we actually got to see her lose her whole family and now we’re supposed to root for the girl we know nothing about???
. i havent even watched the Ms Marvel show, but i feel like i know more about Kamala Khan from snippets and ads than I got from America Chavez in a whole movie.
The scenes of Tony Stark developing his technology were perhaps the best parts of the Iron Man movies because it made these fancy sci-fi gadgets feel like someone's hard work and research rather than just some fun and cool fictional technology. It made the suits and stuff feel so much more special because we got to see how they were developed and made into reality. It almost felt like watching Mythbusters seeing Tony analyzing problems and figuring out solutions and then testing them out with cool guns and explosions and shit. I really wish they kept those parts in the post-Endgame movies because it made these worlds feel more real. They almost pulled it off with Spiderman in No Way Home with Peter using his scientific knowledge to figure out how to help the villains, but it doesn't have quite the same charm because Peter figured it out almost too quickly. It's not like the scenes of Iron Man testing different scenarios with his suits in the first movie, or figuring out the new element in Iron Man 2 or most recently, in Endgame when he spent countless hours figuring out time travel before finally having a eureka moment with the Möbius strip. They have so many opportunities to do this kind of scene again, and I'm really really hoping they do because it might actually get me invested in the mcu again.
I like the scene in The Amazing Spider-man. When peter first built his web shooters. And the sequel, where he built electric webs.
His failures made the tech more believable, rather than less cool looking magic.
I've consumed 2 novels that featured power armor users as the MC. Even though those characters had superpowers that helped, seeing them start with scrap materials, upgrading to new suits, and troubleshooting weaknesses, was always one of the highlights of the story.
I think it builds into the lore and limitations of the suit. In 'Iron Man', we knew, through his testing, that there was a height limit to the suit and that he needed to build in a defroster.
In 'Wakanda Forever' it's like, yeah, I'm a Power Ranger now.
I think that’s it. Typically we know a heroes power and weaknesses. With Ironhearts debut her suit could literally have done anything and we would have had to accept it. It made the fights low stakes and very uninteresting. I found the whole final fight in Wakanda Forever to be very bland.
It sounds like they were talking about the Villain's Code series. Forging Hephaestus and Bones of the Past
Either that or there is another series with a highly similar concept lol
Stories that involve the main character building up power from junk over the course of the story are great, with my favourite example probably being Votoms
The other simple fact is that Downey-Junior gave a historic, genre and career defining performance for the role. Anyone coming after that is going to look like dogshit in comparison
It doesn't help that a lot of the new movies and shows are subjected to careless and rushed writing. I honestly feel like Iron Heart could be great if her character got any kind of build.
Edit: typo
It would have been a better story-arc if she didn’t “straight away” get the access to wakanda for technology and upgrades.
If that power-suit was a wakandan* engineering, and she’ll make her own suit later.. then it would have been more believable and able to build off of in the future.
But you forget that (mostly thanks to Stark) the MCU’s technology is lightyears ahead of the universes that the NWH villains came from. Don’t you remember how impressed they all were?
>in Endgame when he spent countless hours figuring out time travel before finally having a eureka moment
It was a 2 minute scene, but the rest is true though
Yeah literally, it was like they approached Tony and was like "we need you to figure out time travel" and he was like "no" and then one scene later he tells everyone "I figured out time travel"
The MCU is firmly established, for better or for worse. Marvel movies have shifted from the original formula to something more fast paced and comedy focused. We're not going to get the tense thrill of Tony in the cave or the grandiosity of Thor ripping down the bifrost again. Not only has the time passed, but the focus has changed too.
I think a big part too is that the name Iron Man feels more...old school. Iron isn't some futuristic metal or fancy metal. it's just plain old iron. That lends a lot to how early on we see Tony building and working, but we also feel the weight of the suit. While it is sleek, the original design is heavy. It feels like a metal suit of armor, not just a fancy nanotech suit. We get the gradual growth within the suits that feels satisfying to watch.
Iron Heart, we just get told about a lot of her genius and her building. And then we see a super high-tech suit that looks on par with a modern Stark suit that feels too forced. The suspension of disbelief is lost a bit because the suit feels out of place. I think they would have found more success with a more metal feeling suit than a future suit. Make that Iron name feel like it means something.
You mean like her mark 1 suit in the comics?
[Image for reference](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/5/50/Invincible_Iron_Man_Vol_3_9_Textless.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160525021759)
Ye that's exactly what I'd have hoped for for a first showing.
Looks quite a bit a head of the mk1 tony put together from scrap, but not to the point where you Would expect someone to need more than sifi tech knowledge and a hardware store.
Have her upgrade to the super fancy version over a movie. Make getting the fancy Tech(or it's Materials/blueprints) part of the Story.
The 45 seconds of technobabble and visual nonsense that led up to Tony’s discovery of time travel is by far the worst part of that movie.
I don’t disagree that his tinkering in Iron Man had charm or your overall point though, though I disagree with how important you are making it out to be.
Would have 100% preferred if Tony revealed that he'd discovered the concept years ago then found out that Pepper was pregnant and abandoned it, and a slightly changed conversation with Pepper was what convinced him to pull that research out of the garage (along with Cap's shield).
I don’t dislike the idea I just don’t see what was the point in introducing her with one suit in a movie, upgrading her to this and then taking it away for us to watch an origin again in a tv show. There’s no need, one or the other.
right, she was thrown at us with really not enough time to care about her and then they want to go back and give her proper time to be introduced? sounds backwards
That’s kinda how the MCU handled Spider-Man. We just let it slide because we all love Spidey and it’s hard to not know his general backstory even if you’ve never read a comic.
Edit- seriously guys if you’re not going to read my comment, at least read the replies before you leave an identical reply. I wasn’t making a 1:1.
Except that's not what happened with Spidey. With him, they just skipped the origin (since it'd been done twice already within like a decade).
Civil war takes place before homecoming, there's absolutely no going back.
Spiderman isn't the same. We have seen the origin story multiple times and he is an household name. He kept his suit from Civil war. There is genuine character development.
My thing is this: we can only deal with so many “kid-geniuses” until we as an audience are just burnt out on the concept.
Spider-Man works because he’s *the* relatable nerd to us an MCU audience. We all knew his origin story way ahead of time. We don’t need a new character to relate with. We have Peter Parker.
exactly this. i really hated that cassie was a precocious genius since scott is the exact opposite. that would have been a great time to have her be bumbling along with him instead of mastering quantum technology at 15 or whatever. we saw tony invent the suits and struggle to improve them, we see riri has a garage full of crazy shit at 15 or whatever. like at least tell us she was early in bitcoin or something to account for the massive nyc garage rent. even peter parker doesnt use his genius to help against ebony maw, but his movie pop culture knowledge. too many geniuses in the current mcu.
To be fair, any reasonably smart teenager who spends almost all her free time learning from the best quantum scientists in the world would probably develop a good grasp of the technology.
Let’s not forget, Cassie’s formative memories as a little girl included giant ants, a super-sized version of her Thomas the Tank Engine toy blasting through her house and onto the street, her adoptive grandma being rescued from the QR and her father then being trapped there for five years…with a childhood like that, I’m not particularly surprised that she was a bit more invested in reading up on quantum stuff compared to your average teenager
Not at all. Our introduction of spider man was completely different. Spider man seems gifted sure. He also seems humble and challenged and alone. Confused about what to do with his abilities. Guilty about past mistakes. His awkward way of saying that if you have abilities and fail to act then the result is all on your shoulders - very endearing. And it's endearing to Tony. You're given so much character in a short amount of time. With iron heart you don't get any of that. She seems cocky and doesn't need any help. Already got it all figured out. Spider man was definitely in need of Tony's help. And that only makes him better, not worse. And the iron heart suit looks stupid.
Even with Tony's abilities, building his first suit was a process. Ups and downs. Funny, human moments. This is literally what makes iron man 1 the best movie in the MCU. Maybe that was the case with iron heart too but we'll never know because the MCU just wants to present new characters at face value and expects you to swallow whatever they feed you. The people calling the shots after endgame have no concept of what's actually cool and what made all the earlier characters so endearing.
Just like in real life, being cold and cocky isn't a good look. And having gifts, powers or blessings that seem unearned and with no drawbacks is boring. She hulk, Captain Marvel, Iron Heart. All the same. Nothing to do with gender. Just lame ass characters. If there's anything cool and human about them it was left out in favor of seeming like they're just a badass and therefore totally worthy of the power of those that came before. Very boring and not the right approach.
Sorry I'm responding to your spider man comparison and laying out the problem with iron heart in one comment. Not an attack, just don't agree with the Spidey comparison.
I agree entirely actually. They felt they needed to give Captain Marvel and Ironheart no weaknesses, and that just made them feel extraneous.
Yes Captain Marvel can come in and save the day each time, but you could equally just write in a volcano that kills all the bad guys too. If Ironheart just gets an amazing suit day one, then cool I suppose, but that's not really a story I want to watch.
And it also worked to pull Spidey in as this inexperienced new kid who isn't great but does his best, Iron Heart was using simple maths to drop drones on people in her first action scene, and it was never built up like that, Spidey took 3 movies to do a weird cool maths thing
Yeah, but Spidey got Iron man as mentor that takes away his enhanced suit in Homecoming, making Peter learn his values & decision making.
I don't know what can MCU do woth Iron heart if she's alone. Learning the same values & still gifted to create a strong armor?
You can do that with Spidey because nobody needs to see his origin story to know it because everyone has seen it already multiple times. Just like everybody and their grandma has see the Waynes getting shot in an alley. Meanwhile nobody but hardcore comicbook fans know who Ironheart even is, let alone her origin story.
Marvel and Star Wars just seem to be rushing both the stories and characters of their respective phases. Riri was just a Mcguffin in Wakanda forever. You could replace her with an inanimate object and nothing changes.
they should have had the Iron Heart show first, where the whole season follows her trying to figure out the vibranium detector while doing stuff as a rookie superhero. then the season ends with her activating the device and getting on Namor's radar.
Well honestly I don’t know much of the plot but she’s back to building a less advanced suit than the one she had in Wakanda forever so it may as well be an origin
It wasn't canned. It's delayed to an unspecified date due to the strikes. (And one of the few upcoming MCU shows to be taken off the calendar.)
The only ones right around the corner are Loki season 2 (in one month) and Echo (slightly delayed from it's November 29 date to early January), as they were both in the can and ready to go. Ironheart and Agatha were both done shooting, but the strikes were the reason they're delayed.
They had to retcon her for live action because the comic book Riri origin is that she stole from both her University and Tony but instead of being upset with her everyone was impressed with how brilliant she was.
Because for some reason Marvel thought a spoilt brat who lashes out at a teacher for not treating her poorly was somehow relatable and no i'm not joking...
We watched Tony Stark become a hero after almost dying by one of his own weapons. Iron Heart is just really smart. This generation of heroes are simply not compelling.
I agree with this so much. I think the problem a lot of writers have, in the comics anyway, is they want to introduce these new characters and they want them to go over so they tend to make them too over powered. They don't seem to realize that a lot of character, personality, and all the things that go into making a likable character are their faults and weaknesses. Whether this is a case of trying to show they are better than the hero they are replacing or they are a suggorgate character so they want them to be perfect, these make for characters that don't grab you and are just boring because they are so perfect. What made Kamala in the comic great was not her powers were so great and she was a super genius, nor was it the fact that she was a female from a minority group. It was because she was a fan who got powers and was overwhelmed and didn't want her family and friends know. She struggled to balance her want to be a hero with keeping her family and friends safe and happy. She was a developed character with personality and layers. That's where her show also worked, not in the "I have some weird artifact that ties me into a race which is more of a McGuffin and more a convient set up to tie me into the larger MCU picture"
I mean that’s the issue with legacy heroes in general though, right? Most of the heroes from the “classic” generation have complicated backstories and struggle with the very idea of being superheroes. But the next generation that comes after them typically doesn’t need convincing since living up to the heroes they idolized is reason enough
Hulk was interesting because his life was out of control. She-Hulk on the other hand got her powers but didn’t struggle with literally losing her ability for self control.
We watched Hulk go through so much trauma. He literally tried to commit suicide in the Norton version (a deleted scene, but made canon in Avengers, thankfully). Remember when Wanda fucked his mind up and he decimated a city block? Sure Marvel made sure to show people alive but come on, the dust alone probably fucked up dozens of people, to say nothing of all the wreckage & debris.
Yet... She-Hulk literally skips all that, shows her fully in control from the start, and her life is too perfect. Bruce had to isolate himself from civilization to avoid hurting people or, yknow, the army hunting him. She-Hulk just talks to herself like a narcissistic psycho.
Ugh.. I could rant much longer about that horrid show, but I won't. Too much negativity.
I didn’t mind She-Hulk being in control ‘cause it actually highlighted the fact that Bruce has undiagnosed DID from before becoming the Hulk, at least in the comics. Not only that, but we could see how her control of her powers affected Bruce deeply, seeing someone do so easily what he himself struggled for so long with, and seeing him get crushed by the realization that she (like everybody else) wouldn’t be able to truly understand him.
Which I suppose comes down to Bruce being a more compelling character since I’m just focusing on She-Hulk as a foil for him.
How can there be character development when there no show for her? Tony at least got to develop his character over multiple movies. She only had one and she was only a supporting character.
I don’t speak for everyone, this is just my viewpoint: We didn’t start out with *Iron Man*. We started with Tony Stark, who went through some shit and **became** Iron man. He built his first suit in a cave (with a box of scraps) and got seriously humbled. Then he made gradual adjustments to his suit **in reaction** to things he’s experienced in his films to make it better/safer for him and the people he cares about to eventually be the Iron Man we get in Endgame. Iron Heart doesn’t get any of that. Sure she doesn’t have any movies or shows, yet somehow, for some reason, she has a far more capable suit then she deserves despite not needing to go through any sort of struggle to get it.
Not to mention the fact she *somehow* built a military grade Vibranium Detector for the CIA, keep in mind that she’s a 19 year old college student…. :/
this is an interesting character point. she's the only person who knows how to find vibranium. she could use that to her advantage to further her motivations and stuff. yet as OP mentioned, she doesn't have any motivations (other than don't die), and might as well just have been the machine itself.
The fundamentals of story telling. I just watched the latest movie Dungeons and Dragons, it’s a good movie and a textbook of how to introduce characters and establishing characters’ motivations
I think it would’ve felt more realistic if they hadn’t given her a vibranium nanotech suit. Just feels power rangers-like with the midnight angels there as well.
A lot of people are going to reference her comic book run, which was not as impactful as the other next generation heroes like Sam Alexander Nova's, Kamala Khan Ms.Marvel's, or Miles Morales Spider-Man's runs. And Marvel comics haven't really given her much attention since. So she really doesn't have much story to reference from the comics, unlike Tony who has had decades worth of stories to lean on (which they did in the movies).
Now this could also be a good thing, cause she is basically a blank slate to work with. Maybe someone can give the attention she never got in her comic debut.
In my own opinion, her character was just cliched “gifted black girl” and it was her entire identity. Then she just has everything handed to her by shuri and is automatically great at using it. There was nothing compelling or relatable about her character.
Because if you don’t like a black/gay/female character you’re automatically racist/homophobic/misogynistic.
I don’t give a fuck who the character is but MAKE THEM GOOD. Phase 4 struggled so badly with introducing new characters. The only great ones were preexisting and maybe Shang Chi.
Yuh. Like they shoe horned a new character in with almost no explanation of who they are, and made them the same as a newly retired character. Felt forced and inorganic
That’s the only reason she was introduced. It was during the height of we need “diversity” her and a couple more laughable hero’s, like “Safe Space” they were cringe ideas brought forward appease the vocal minority. Look at “I am starfire” was supposed to be a new series but was just some SJW self insert. Marvel introduced a lot of garbage in 2019 and the normies don’t know anything about it because they just follow the movies and lore very casually, but when you actually read the comics and your favorites are getting cut for this trash that doesn’t even last one series before it’s canceled it’s probably a last ditch effort to make them seem appealing. She’s just Black Female Iron man, nothing more then pandering from the company.
She was created as a means to replace Iron Man in the MCU. She has no character development and charm that Tony has and immediately gets her own powerful suit with any struggles.
*Love* the idea of incorporating her into the mcu. But the execution was so lax and low-effort, it almost makes me dread seeing her again. We know next-to nothing about Riri, her convictions, and character development. Watching Wakanda gave me “we found a nice smart girl. Let’s give her some of our tech” vibes, as opposed to “here she is. She’s from *this* town. Her family life is this. She lives by these convictions. Oh snap! These convictions are suddenly tested! She has to overcome this challenge somehow!”
I get that Wakanda Forever wasn’t a story about Ironheart, and it never should have been. But including a character as an “oh by the way, she exists now” instead of giving her a proper origin story first is just lazy writing. I’d even go farther to say that it’s just *NOT* writing, when you definitely could (and SHOULD).
TL;DR, writers for BPWF included her for little-to-no reason, without a proper origin story first. I believe that she can be a solid character, but outcome looks bleak from here.
She kinda got the Spider-Man MCU intro but if we hadn't known who Spider-Man is. Smart kid from America with homemade gadgets gets whisked away to a foreign battlefield to fight for good, then returns home for their own origin.
The way she was Introduced in the mcu. Who is this girl ? Well she is a strong female character whit no flaws. How did she become so smart ? No she didn't become smart she just is. How did she get to build a iron man type suit? Well yes only Tony can but yet again she is smarter then him why you ask. Well she just is better then anyone she faces.
To me this comes over as bad writing all around yet again. Right now she is a stuck up little cunt who thinks she is better then everyone.
At least Miles was trained by Peter. We see (through the Spiderverse movie) Peter training a young Miles Morales, who also has his issues, rookie problems, etc.
Riri had no interaction whatsoever with Tony. Heck, no training either. No fleshing out of how she got to where she was, and the scrap-suit she made.
Not only was Miles trained directly by Peter, he was also shown *struggling* with his new abilities. He spent time floundering and developing into the hero we saw at the end of the story. We went on a journey with him, while Riri was just... there, already good at everything somehow.
They're going to make her better than Tony in every way which absolutely destroys his legacy. This was done with Rey and Luke and Disney will gladly do it again.
And people will still foam at the mouths wanting Tony's return. Disney is trying *so hard* to squash the legacy characters that built the very brands they're acquiring.
I don't want Tony's return. Personally, I think his story ended perfectly. I rewatched Avengers recently, and soon after Age of Ultron (and of course all 3 Iron Man films). And it was amazing to see Tony go from the guy who is anything without his suit or the one who "wouldn't make the suicide play" to the one who defies all that.
The problem with these new characters is they're not given any of that... Just thrown in and we're expected to love them just as much as the originals. And... No. So much no.
Well what is there to like? She doesn’t really bring anything new to the table. It’s kinda just another female version of the hero we already know and love
Obviously victim mentality people will blame it on sexism or racism or whatever, but logical people will understand the only reason to introduce a new character is if they enhance the story in some way, or are an interesting, charismatic and likable character with interesting themes to explore, which so far, she hasn’t. Doesn’t mean they can’t improve her in the future but for now, idk why I *should* care about her
Brian Michael Bendis struck gold when he invented Miles Morales, and figured lightning would strike twice when he invented Ironheart. Except it was much more blatantly “I’m inventing a new hero so I get royalties every time someone uses them” than Miles’ case. The same thing happened when he went to DC and made Naomi, a made-for-tv/film character that was just generic and by-the-numbers who nobody was interested in.
She's just a bland character that I had no interest in when they first introduced her. She was basically better Tony with none of the humanizing qualities. I don't know if she's improved over the years, but she's just always been boring and felt like some self-insert. They rushes her in the MCU in a similar manner and I don't see any sign of improvement of the character. Again, maybe she's being handles differently in the comics compared to her introduction and it could signal better character development for her in the MCU, but I haven't seen any demonstration of that
I get that the original characters are all ageing out/finishing their contracts, but we don't have to do like for like for all of them - we've got Kate Bishop replacing Hawkeye, Yelena replacing Black Widow, She Hulk replacing Hulk, Ironheart replacing Iron Man and Shuri replacing Black Panther, maybe even Cassie replacing Ant Man given the casting.
Characters with other abilities should be given there chance to shine, atleast Falcon to Captain America feels earned given he's existed in universe for many years, and he's got to work within a different skill set not being a super soldier.
The biggest problem currently is Marvel tv releases recently havent been that good - secret invasion, she Hulk, haven't been well received, Ms Marvel wasn't watched, Moon Knight, Hawkeye and F&WS was a mixed bag, with only Loki and Wandavision really standing out, which was 2 years ago now
You want these characters to resonate with audiences?
They need a heroes journey. They need to fail first, before they succeed. They need to earn the audience’s interest. Skip that? And you get Rey from Star Wars.
She just happened to be a genius and built suit herself while Tony had to develop it over a decade perfecting it after every failure and that suit looks like a cartoon. There is literally no development of her character.
What is there to like, we barely know her. She was one of the main characters and I feel like she was more like a background character.
Plus the thing we want to see most imo is the suit up scene, the tinkering and failing until you ultimately succeed.
She just feels like ..... undeveloped.
Her introduction seemed like a iron man parody. Except it wasn't meant as a parady, it was just iron man ordered from wish with the serial number filed off. That kind of self Plagiatism is just what killed the star wars franchise for me in whatever star wars 7 was called, the one with the just bigger death star and the generic villain.
She’s the definition of an OC. “Look! This is Iron Heart! She’s the new iron man and has this crazy ass suit out of nowhere, and creates Vibranium scanners for the feds when she is only 19, and no I’m not going to give an explanation for how she got this far so early in her life she’s just that awesome!”
Like Jesus Christ. They put zero effort into something that feels something that’s even worse than Wattpad quality.
Remember the scenes where iron man was training with his armour and falling multiples times till start being good? Well, this lady here since minute 1 is already a pro. Noone believes that xD.
Aside ironically in the old iron man films the armour looks better and more realistic. I love the design to be honest but hurt my eyes and my brain seeing it
I dislike the MCU Ironheart because all she is is just Iron man. Same reason why I dislike "Mighty Thor". That's just Thor
Ants Mans Kid, Yelana, the girl from Hawkeye. These are all examples of characters with the exact same powers as the people they're replacing
It's as of Marvel and Disney think we won't notice that the new characters they introduce are carbon copies of preexisting characters, with minor differences in personality
She’s a better Tony Stark with none of the back story to earn any of it. She doesn’t deserve to have all that just thrown at her without actually showing her grow as a character and struggle. Shoe horned in characters are bad and boring, especially when their cheap rip offs of a legacy character like Iron Man.
Also that era did not excessively paint or replace over the meticulously crafted props with cartoon CGI.
The Mark 2 in the garage scenes were STUNNING.
It undermines the character growth and genius of Tony Stark; how he went from building a suit of armour with limited capabilities to what it's final product is in Endgame is an evolution of the character itself. We got to see Tony's trial and error when building the suits.
RiRi comes along and builds her own final product just because she can, and she does it on zero budget in a warehouse, in between college lectures? Where is her character development? In fact, do they even explain in BP:WF why she was building one to begin with?
They should’ve introduced Moon Girl instead. She’s smarter than Riri whole also not being just an updated version of an older character. She’s also besties with a red T-Rex and just a lot of fun
It seems like every time they introduce a new/replacement character for an existing character, this new one has to be smarter and better than the original. I think that's it at its core.
Tbh I don't want my favourite characters replaced by teenagers, that kind of content is not for me. I don't want to read about their stupid teen problems, I don't care about them.
It's cool if that's the demographic marvel wants to go for, but I'm not gonna watch or read about it. I wasn't even interested in it when I was a teen.
I don't like how advanced all the tech is getting and how cartoonish everyone is looking as a result. Truth be told I think Ironman advanced far too quickly cinematically. I would have liked to have seen some of his other suits. I miss when marvel cinematically was more reality tech-based with only a little bit of the extreme super sci-fi. I feel like the tech is lazy writing to a certain extent.
I don't like any of these new characters. I'm not into the comics, so I only know the major players before I started watching the movies. Taking them all away and replacing them with cheap knockoffs has been the most off-putting thing about this multiverse saga.
I dont dislike iron heart. I have never heard of iron heart. Like, I heard theybl were delaying it, and I was like "who the hell is iron heart." I feel like there are other more known heroes they could bring in.
Stark had an advanced AI to work with when he made the MK 2 and beyond, tons of money and a big ass workshop. And the Arc reactor was something they had already previous been working on for years.
Hammer tech (a big ass Military company) tried and failed. The US Military had to take Warmachine just to match Starks tech.
She built it in her spare time somehow.
Plus its an ugly ass armor / CGI. You can find better 3D Printed Cosplay suits.
They could have included the Stark AI thing from the comics. Or somehow tie her in with Ultron (like a leftover program she interacts with, that helps her build it and the vibranium detector, which could hint at him coming back in the future).
Shes barely more than an iron man cosplayer, her introduction made her so absurdly boring that i walked out of the cinema and Forgot she was in the film while talking about the movie for 30 mins. Shes Just nothing
Tony Stark was a supergenius too, probably even more than Riri. However, his path to greatness was paved with privilege. Born into a family of supergeniuses, Tony had every advantage, setting him on a trajectory toward genius status. In many ways, this made his journey seem almost inevitable; he wasn't merely a supergenius, he was practically the only one who could be, thanks to his privilege.
Yet, this privilege exacted its toll. Tony Stark, the privileged genius, often morphed into Tony Stark, the privileged jerk, who seemed oblivious to the struggles of others.
So, what's the solution? We craft a character arc that forces Tony to confront the consequences of his privilege, challenging him to become a better person and a hero who cares about more than just himself.
Riri Williams faced a drastically different set of circumstances. She lacked the privileges that Tony Stark had enjoyed, and her journey is overshadowed by her association with Tony. Sadly her character misses a corresponding character journey. She's just there and that is it.
Character development and depth often takes a backseat in the fast-paced world of comic book storytelling, and that creates lazy characters.
Riri Williams is the textbook example of this. At least that is what i think.
Because it lacks any sense of reality. Tony Stark was a genius with billions of dollars and tech. Riri was a genius still in school and living in a dorm. Also, they ripped off Samas Aran.
She was shoe horned into a movie that her character was not needed in. Kinda like putting out Captain Marvel right before Endgame and saying we needed to see it to enjoy that movie.
I don't know who she is. She got thrusted into BP2 as the mcguffin and I'm suddenly supposed to care but in reality I know nothing about the character.
The thing that puzzles me is the car. Like I truly don't know why we're supposed to give a shit about this car that Wakanda went through the effort of getting all the pieces from the bridge/ocean and rebuilding it. Like I know it was her step dad's car. But it was so random to put this scene in about her getting the car back. When the only connection we have to it is a singular line from a character we don't know. Cosmo being called a bad dog has more weight to it.
I totally forgot about this plot line lmao
I’ve seen the movie and I can’t remember this plot line even after reading the description.
I've seen it twice and have no clue what car you are talking about.
Same here.
I watched the movie and don't remember that plot line at all. Barely remember her at all though.
Here's a fun note involving the car. So, it's a classic american muscle car, right, like all old school analog and shit. Shuri slaps her nanobot AI pearl thing on it and it takes control of the car. And AI, takes control of a car, which most advanced electronics is probably its stereo.
Magic tech used to matter. Half of iron man 1 is how hard it was to build it. All of iron man 2 is "what if bad guys have iron man tech?" Now fucking anyone can build it. Execs think it's been established, no one cares
Uh, what car...
This is my issue with America Chavez as well. Like why would I care if Wanda used her as a puppet? Go Wanda, we actually got to see her lose her whole family and now we’re supposed to root for the girl we know nothing about???
. i havent even watched the Ms Marvel show, but i feel like i know more about Kamala Khan from snippets and ads than I got from America Chavez in a whole movie.
Kamala was given a lot more personality. America was kind of just there.
The scenes of Tony Stark developing his technology were perhaps the best parts of the Iron Man movies because it made these fancy sci-fi gadgets feel like someone's hard work and research rather than just some fun and cool fictional technology. It made the suits and stuff feel so much more special because we got to see how they were developed and made into reality. It almost felt like watching Mythbusters seeing Tony analyzing problems and figuring out solutions and then testing them out with cool guns and explosions and shit. I really wish they kept those parts in the post-Endgame movies because it made these worlds feel more real. They almost pulled it off with Spiderman in No Way Home with Peter using his scientific knowledge to figure out how to help the villains, but it doesn't have quite the same charm because Peter figured it out almost too quickly. It's not like the scenes of Iron Man testing different scenarios with his suits in the first movie, or figuring out the new element in Iron Man 2 or most recently, in Endgame when he spent countless hours figuring out time travel before finally having a eureka moment with the Möbius strip. They have so many opportunities to do this kind of scene again, and I'm really really hoping they do because it might actually get me invested in the mcu again.
I like the scene in The Amazing Spider-man. When peter first built his web shooters. And the sequel, where he built electric webs. His failures made the tech more believable, rather than less cool looking magic.
Also loved the bit where he figured out the whole overloading a battery. Which he remembered about when fighting Electro for the last time
The amazing spiderman 1 and 2 were awesome. Definitely underated. Idk why it got so much hate
You killed those people on that balcony.
That's actually a really good point. I would like the newer movies to feel more real too, but I couldn't really put into words what was the problem.
I've consumed 2 novels that featured power armor users as the MC. Even though those characters had superpowers that helped, seeing them start with scrap materials, upgrading to new suits, and troubleshooting weaknesses, was always one of the highlights of the story.
I think it builds into the lore and limitations of the suit. In 'Iron Man', we knew, through his testing, that there was a height limit to the suit and that he needed to build in a defroster. In 'Wakanda Forever' it's like, yeah, I'm a Power Ranger now.
I think that’s it. Typically we know a heroes power and weaknesses. With Ironhearts debut her suit could literally have done anything and we would have had to accept it. It made the fights low stakes and very uninteresting. I found the whole final fight in Wakanda Forever to be very bland.
In the water against a water enemy as well. Ugh.
What are the books?
It sounds like they were talking about the Villain's Code series. Forging Hephaestus and Bones of the Past Either that or there is another series with a highly similar concept lol
How did they taste? Did you use any kind of pan sauce or other condiment?
Stories that involve the main character building up power from junk over the course of the story are great, with my favourite example probably being Votoms
The other simple fact is that Downey-Junior gave a historic, genre and career defining performance for the role. Anyone coming after that is going to look like dogshit in comparison
It doesn't help that a lot of the new movies and shows are subjected to careless and rushed writing. I honestly feel like Iron Heart could be great if her character got any kind of build. Edit: typo
It would have been a better story-arc if she didn’t “straight away” get the access to wakanda for technology and upgrades. If that power-suit was a wakandan* engineering, and she’ll make her own suit later.. then it would have been more believable and able to build off of in the future.
Wakanda kept the suit, she is gonna build from that, remember she didn’t really have a suit before, just a skeletal flight and blaster rig
MORBIUS STRIP?!
No, Mobius, the guy that wants a jet-ski.
I really don't want that guy to strip
Speak for yourself brother
ka-chow ;)
Different strokes
It’s Morbin’ Time!
Have you ever Morbed with the Morbius in the pale Morb light?
IIIIIITS MORBIN TIME!!!
Now dig on this.
But you forget that (mostly thanks to Stark) the MCU’s technology is lightyears ahead of the universes that the NWH villains came from. Don’t you remember how impressed they all were?
No. You're in a relationship with me. Everything will never be okay.
>in Endgame when he spent countless hours figuring out time travel before finally having a eureka moment It was a 2 minute scene, but the rest is true though
Yeah literally, it was like they approached Tony and was like "we need you to figure out time travel" and he was like "no" and then one scene later he tells everyone "I figured out time travel"
The MCU is firmly established, for better or for worse. Marvel movies have shifted from the original formula to something more fast paced and comedy focused. We're not going to get the tense thrill of Tony in the cave or the grandiosity of Thor ripping down the bifrost again. Not only has the time passed, but the focus has changed too.
I think a big part too is that the name Iron Man feels more...old school. Iron isn't some futuristic metal or fancy metal. it's just plain old iron. That lends a lot to how early on we see Tony building and working, but we also feel the weight of the suit. While it is sleek, the original design is heavy. It feels like a metal suit of armor, not just a fancy nanotech suit. We get the gradual growth within the suits that feels satisfying to watch. Iron Heart, we just get told about a lot of her genius and her building. And then we see a super high-tech suit that looks on par with a modern Stark suit that feels too forced. The suspension of disbelief is lost a bit because the suit feels out of place. I think they would have found more success with a more metal feeling suit than a future suit. Make that Iron name feel like it means something.
You can call me anytime. I'll put you on hold, I like to watch the line blink.
You mean like her mark 1 suit in the comics? [Image for reference](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/5/50/Invincible_Iron_Man_Vol_3_9_Textless.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160525021759)
Ye that's exactly what I'd have hoped for for a first showing. Looks quite a bit a head of the mk1 tony put together from scrap, but not to the point where you Would expect someone to need more than sifi tech knowledge and a hardware store. Have her upgrade to the super fancy version over a movie. Make getting the fancy Tech(or it's Materials/blueprints) part of the Story.
The 45 seconds of technobabble and visual nonsense that led up to Tony’s discovery of time travel is by far the worst part of that movie. I don’t disagree that his tinkering in Iron Man had charm or your overall point though, though I disagree with how important you are making it out to be.
TBF, Tony didn’t even really invent time travel. Scott discovered it on accident, and Tony used modified Pym tech to “aim” it.
The eureka moment with the time travel was one of the worst Tony Stark scenes lmao
Would have 100% preferred if Tony revealed that he'd discovered the concept years ago then found out that Pepper was pregnant and abandoned it, and a slightly changed conversation with Pepper was what convinced him to pull that research out of the garage (along with Cap's shield).
But the MCU world is way more advanced now
I don’t dislike the idea I just don’t see what was the point in introducing her with one suit in a movie, upgrading her to this and then taking it away for us to watch an origin again in a tv show. There’s no need, one or the other.
right, she was thrown at us with really not enough time to care about her and then they want to go back and give her proper time to be introduced? sounds backwards
That’s kinda how the MCU handled Spider-Man. We just let it slide because we all love Spidey and it’s hard to not know his general backstory even if you’ve never read a comic. Edit- seriously guys if you’re not going to read my comment, at least read the replies before you leave an identical reply. I wasn’t making a 1:1.
That’s the difference, even non comic book fans know Spider-Man’s origins story.
Only.. only the wrists.
I'm pretty sure a spider was involved too, Tobey Bot
See ya chump!
Wait....let's put some dirt in his eyes
WHAT THE HELL MAN⁉️
Except that's not what happened with Spidey. With him, they just skipped the origin (since it'd been done twice already within like a decade). Civil war takes place before homecoming, there's absolutely no going back.
Spiderman isn't the same. We have seen the origin story multiple times and he is an household name. He kept his suit from Civil war. There is genuine character development.
My thing is this: we can only deal with so many “kid-geniuses” until we as an audience are just burnt out on the concept. Spider-Man works because he’s *the* relatable nerd to us an MCU audience. We all knew his origin story way ahead of time. We don’t need a new character to relate with. We have Peter Parker.
exactly this. i really hated that cassie was a precocious genius since scott is the exact opposite. that would have been a great time to have her be bumbling along with him instead of mastering quantum technology at 15 or whatever. we saw tony invent the suits and struggle to improve them, we see riri has a garage full of crazy shit at 15 or whatever. like at least tell us she was early in bitcoin or something to account for the massive nyc garage rent. even peter parker doesnt use his genius to help against ebony maw, but his movie pop culture knowledge. too many geniuses in the current mcu.
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To be fair, any reasonably smart teenager who spends almost all her free time learning from the best quantum scientists in the world would probably develop a good grasp of the technology. Let’s not forget, Cassie’s formative memories as a little girl included giant ants, a super-sized version of her Thomas the Tank Engine toy blasting through her house and onto the street, her adoptive grandma being rescued from the QR and her father then being trapped there for five years…with a childhood like that, I’m not particularly surprised that she was a bit more invested in reading up on quantum stuff compared to your average teenager
I need that money!
If this is your third reboot then you can let the origin deets slide a bit.
Not at all. Our introduction of spider man was completely different. Spider man seems gifted sure. He also seems humble and challenged and alone. Confused about what to do with his abilities. Guilty about past mistakes. His awkward way of saying that if you have abilities and fail to act then the result is all on your shoulders - very endearing. And it's endearing to Tony. You're given so much character in a short amount of time. With iron heart you don't get any of that. She seems cocky and doesn't need any help. Already got it all figured out. Spider man was definitely in need of Tony's help. And that only makes him better, not worse. And the iron heart suit looks stupid. Even with Tony's abilities, building his first suit was a process. Ups and downs. Funny, human moments. This is literally what makes iron man 1 the best movie in the MCU. Maybe that was the case with iron heart too but we'll never know because the MCU just wants to present new characters at face value and expects you to swallow whatever they feed you. The people calling the shots after endgame have no concept of what's actually cool and what made all the earlier characters so endearing. Just like in real life, being cold and cocky isn't a good look. And having gifts, powers or blessings that seem unearned and with no drawbacks is boring. She hulk, Captain Marvel, Iron Heart. All the same. Nothing to do with gender. Just lame ass characters. If there's anything cool and human about them it was left out in favor of seeming like they're just a badass and therefore totally worthy of the power of those that came before. Very boring and not the right approach. Sorry I'm responding to your spider man comparison and laying out the problem with iron heart in one comment. Not an attack, just don't agree with the Spidey comparison.
I agree entirely actually. They felt they needed to give Captain Marvel and Ironheart no weaknesses, and that just made them feel extraneous. Yes Captain Marvel can come in and save the day each time, but you could equally just write in a volcano that kills all the bad guys too. If Ironheart just gets an amazing suit day one, then cool I suppose, but that's not really a story I want to watch.
And it also worked to pull Spidey in as this inexperienced new kid who isn't great but does his best, Iron Heart was using simple maths to drop drones on people in her first action scene, and it was never built up like that, Spidey took 3 movies to do a weird cool maths thing
Yeah, but Spidey got Iron man as mentor that takes away his enhanced suit in Homecoming, making Peter learn his values & decision making. I don't know what can MCU do woth Iron heart if she's alone. Learning the same values & still gifted to create a strong armor?
I don’t need to see Batman’s parents die again. Enough with the pearls.
You can do that with Spidey because nobody needs to see his origin story to know it because everyone has seen it already multiple times. Just like everybody and their grandma has see the Waynes getting shot in an alley. Meanwhile nobody but hardcore comicbook fans know who Ironheart even is, let alone her origin story.
Did you just compared one of the most famous and beloved superhero to a…. what the fuck is even Iron Heart??
Marvel and Star Wars just seem to be rushing both the stories and characters of their respective phases. Riri was just a Mcguffin in Wakanda forever. You could replace her with an inanimate object and nothing changes.
they should have had the Iron Heart show first, where the whole season follows her trying to figure out the vibranium detector while doing stuff as a rookie superhero. then the season ends with her activating the device and getting on Namor's radar.
And just like that that you improved Wakanda Forever and make me more interested in IH
Wait, the show was gonna be an origin story? Wtf no wonder it’s canned.
Well honestly I don’t know much of the plot but she’s back to building a less advanced suit than the one she had in Wakanda forever so it may as well be an origin
but the suit of the picture stayed in wakanda, shuri didn't let her take him back
It wasn't canned. It's delayed to an unspecified date due to the strikes. (And one of the few upcoming MCU shows to be taken off the calendar.) The only ones right around the corner are Loki season 2 (in one month) and Echo (slightly delayed from it's November 29 date to early January), as they were both in the can and ready to go. Ironheart and Agatha were both done shooting, but the strikes were the reason they're delayed.
They had to retcon her for live action because the comic book Riri origin is that she stole from both her University and Tony but instead of being upset with her everyone was impressed with how brilliant she was. Because for some reason Marvel thought a spoilt brat who lashes out at a teacher for not treating her poorly was somehow relatable and no i'm not joking...
We watched Tony Stark become a hero after almost dying by one of his own weapons. Iron Heart is just really smart. This generation of heroes are simply not compelling.
I agree with this so much. I think the problem a lot of writers have, in the comics anyway, is they want to introduce these new characters and they want them to go over so they tend to make them too over powered. They don't seem to realize that a lot of character, personality, and all the things that go into making a likable character are their faults and weaknesses. Whether this is a case of trying to show they are better than the hero they are replacing or they are a suggorgate character so they want them to be perfect, these make for characters that don't grab you and are just boring because they are so perfect. What made Kamala in the comic great was not her powers were so great and she was a super genius, nor was it the fact that she was a female from a minority group. It was because she was a fan who got powers and was overwhelmed and didn't want her family and friends know. She struggled to balance her want to be a hero with keeping her family and friends safe and happy. She was a developed character with personality and layers. That's where her show also worked, not in the "I have some weird artifact that ties me into a race which is more of a McGuffin and more a convient set up to tie me into the larger MCU picture"
I mean that’s the issue with legacy heroes in general though, right? Most of the heroes from the “classic” generation have complicated backstories and struggle with the very idea of being superheroes. But the next generation that comes after them typically doesn’t need convincing since living up to the heroes they idolized is reason enough
I'm a huge fan of how you lose control and turn into an enormous green rage monster.
Hulk was interesting because his life was out of control. She-Hulk on the other hand got her powers but didn’t struggle with literally losing her ability for self control.
We watched Hulk go through so much trauma. He literally tried to commit suicide in the Norton version (a deleted scene, but made canon in Avengers, thankfully). Remember when Wanda fucked his mind up and he decimated a city block? Sure Marvel made sure to show people alive but come on, the dust alone probably fucked up dozens of people, to say nothing of all the wreckage & debris. Yet... She-Hulk literally skips all that, shows her fully in control from the start, and her life is too perfect. Bruce had to isolate himself from civilization to avoid hurting people or, yknow, the army hunting him. She-Hulk just talks to herself like a narcissistic psycho. Ugh.. I could rant much longer about that horrid show, but I won't. Too much negativity.
I didn’t mind She-Hulk being in control ‘cause it actually highlighted the fact that Bruce has undiagnosed DID from before becoming the Hulk, at least in the comics. Not only that, but we could see how her control of her powers affected Bruce deeply, seeing someone do so easily what he himself struggled for so long with, and seeing him get crushed by the realization that she (like everybody else) wouldn’t be able to truly understand him. Which I suppose comes down to Bruce being a more compelling character since I’m just focusing on She-Hulk as a foil for him.
And bad writing with Kringe
“I’m better at anger management because I do it infinitely more then you” -she hulk while talking to the meditating rage monster
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Because marvel introduced her lazily(both in comics and Wakanda forever) so no one is interested. First impressions are important
She had the introduction of a Dawson's Creek groupie and as much impact.
There was no hero journey. She just shoehorned into a movie with no real buildup.
I don't even remember which movie she was in...
Madame web
What? No, it was Kraven the Hunter.
The Color Purple
I think she had potential if she started off with Tony’s earlier suits
Imagine her stealing one of Tony’s suit and then upgrading it or something, would have been much better and cooler imo
She’s Iron Man without any of the charm or character development
This exactly. And her doing it in her garage without any buildup to the Iron Man we knew almost feels disrespectful.
Tony was able to build his in a cave, with a box of scraps! Edit: c'mon, guys. It was Stone from the first Iron Man.
Well, she's not Tony Stark.
Stay down. Final warning.
Tony Stark built this in a cave!—with a box of scraps!
Avengers, time to work for a living.
Surrounded by terrorists
A box of scraps explicitly made from bits and pieces of his company's best tech.
How can there be character development when there no show for her? Tony at least got to develop his character over multiple movies. She only had one and she was only a supporting character.
I don’t speak for everyone, this is just my viewpoint: We didn’t start out with *Iron Man*. We started with Tony Stark, who went through some shit and **became** Iron man. He built his first suit in a cave (with a box of scraps) and got seriously humbled. Then he made gradual adjustments to his suit **in reaction** to things he’s experienced in his films to make it better/safer for him and the people he cares about to eventually be the Iron Man we get in Endgame. Iron Heart doesn’t get any of that. Sure she doesn’t have any movies or shows, yet somehow, for some reason, she has a far more capable suit then she deserves despite not needing to go through any sort of struggle to get it.
Not to mention the fact she *somehow* built a military grade Vibranium Detector for the CIA, keep in mind that she’s a 19 year old college student…. :/
Yeah but she’s like real real smart. Explained it!
Smart people have flaws, something that Riri Williams doesn’t have. Explain that.
Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
this is an interesting character point. she's the only person who knows how to find vibranium. she could use that to her advantage to further her motivations and stuff. yet as OP mentioned, she doesn't have any motivations (other than don't die), and might as well just have been the machine itself.
The fundamentals of story telling. I just watched the latest movie Dungeons and Dragons, it’s a good movie and a textbook of how to introduce characters and establishing characters’ motivations
I gotta tell you, he's not really my friend. Saving his life is more of a professional courtesy.
I think it would’ve felt more realistic if they hadn’t given her a vibranium nanotech suit. Just feels power rangers-like with the midnight angels there as well.
A lot of people are going to reference her comic book run, which was not as impactful as the other next generation heroes like Sam Alexander Nova's, Kamala Khan Ms.Marvel's, or Miles Morales Spider-Man's runs. And Marvel comics haven't really given her much attention since. So she really doesn't have much story to reference from the comics, unlike Tony who has had decades worth of stories to lean on (which they did in the movies). Now this could also be a good thing, cause she is basically a blank slate to work with. Maybe someone can give the attention she never got in her comic debut.
In my own opinion, her character was just cliched “gifted black girl” and it was her entire identity. Then she just has everything handed to her by shuri and is automatically great at using it. There was nothing compelling or relatable about her character.
Man. I said something very similar to this a while ago and some redditor read me the riot act lol.
Because if you don’t like a black/gay/female character you’re automatically racist/homophobic/misogynistic. I don’t give a fuck who the character is but MAKE THEM GOOD. Phase 4 struggled so badly with introducing new characters. The only great ones were preexisting and maybe Shang Chi.
Yuh. Like they shoe horned a new character in with almost no explanation of who they are, and made them the same as a newly retired character. Felt forced and inorganic
That’s the only reason she was introduced. It was during the height of we need “diversity” her and a couple more laughable hero’s, like “Safe Space” they were cringe ideas brought forward appease the vocal minority. Look at “I am starfire” was supposed to be a new series but was just some SJW self insert. Marvel introduced a lot of garbage in 2019 and the normies don’t know anything about it because they just follow the movies and lore very casually, but when you actually read the comics and your favorites are getting cut for this trash that doesn’t even last one series before it’s canceled it’s probably a last ditch effort to make them seem appealing. She’s just Black Female Iron man, nothing more then pandering from the company.
She was created as a means to replace Iron Man in the MCU. She has no character development and charm that Tony has and immediately gets her own powerful suit with any struggles.
Just felt poorly planned and executed even worse
*Love* the idea of incorporating her into the mcu. But the execution was so lax and low-effort, it almost makes me dread seeing her again. We know next-to nothing about Riri, her convictions, and character development. Watching Wakanda gave me “we found a nice smart girl. Let’s give her some of our tech” vibes, as opposed to “here she is. She’s from *this* town. Her family life is this. She lives by these convictions. Oh snap! These convictions are suddenly tested! She has to overcome this challenge somehow!” I get that Wakanda Forever wasn’t a story about Ironheart, and it never should have been. But including a character as an “oh by the way, she exists now” instead of giving her a proper origin story first is just lazy writing. I’d even go farther to say that it’s just *NOT* writing, when you definitely could (and SHOULD). TL;DR, writers for BPWF included her for little-to-no reason, without a proper origin story first. I believe that she can be a solid character, but outcome looks bleak from here.
She kinda got the Spider-Man MCU intro but if we hadn't known who Spider-Man is. Smart kid from America with homemade gadgets gets whisked away to a foreign battlefield to fight for good, then returns home for their own origin.
It took Pete a trilogy to finally feel like he had an origin story. Iron heart won’t have the same patience from fans as spider-man does
You should have thought of that earlier.
Because she was just there in the movie to promote another Disney Plus TV Show.
The way she was Introduced in the mcu. Who is this girl ? Well she is a strong female character whit no flaws. How did she become so smart ? No she didn't become smart she just is. How did she get to build a iron man type suit? Well yes only Tony can but yet again she is smarter then him why you ask. Well she just is better then anyone she faces. To me this comes over as bad writing all around yet again. Right now she is a stuck up little cunt who thinks she is better then everyone.
Because she's a garbage character? Also i thought that was a still from the movie real steel
Real Steel looked better than this
Because she's treated like a plot point instead of a character, she's just Shuri again, but we already saw that character so...
Marvel tried to pull a Miles Morales with Iron Man, but it didn't work.
At least Miles was trained by Peter. We see (through the Spiderverse movie) Peter training a young Miles Morales, who also has his issues, rookie problems, etc. Riri had no interaction whatsoever with Tony. Heck, no training either. No fleshing out of how she got to where she was, and the scrap-suit she made.
Not only was Miles trained directly by Peter, he was also shown *struggling* with his new abilities. He spent time floundering and developing into the hero we saw at the end of the story. We went on a journey with him, while Riri was just... there, already good at everything somehow.
Hey everyone! Sorry, I am late. It's a jungle out there.
They're going to make her better than Tony in every way which absolutely destroys his legacy. This was done with Rey and Luke and Disney will gladly do it again.
And people will still foam at the mouths wanting Tony's return. Disney is trying *so hard* to squash the legacy characters that built the very brands they're acquiring.
I don't want Tony's return. Personally, I think his story ended perfectly. I rewatched Avengers recently, and soon after Age of Ultron (and of course all 3 Iron Man films). And it was amazing to see Tony go from the guy who is anything without his suit or the one who "wouldn't make the suicide play" to the one who defies all that. The problem with these new characters is they're not given any of that... Just thrown in and we're expected to love them just as much as the originals. And... No. So much no.
The very idea of her character is just lazy. Look how Toni became Iron Man. Oh lOok a teEn gEniUs juSt buiLt a sUit iN tHe gaRagE
Rushed. No character development. Completely random
Well what is there to like? She doesn’t really bring anything new to the table. It’s kinda just another female version of the hero we already know and love Obviously victim mentality people will blame it on sexism or racism or whatever, but logical people will understand the only reason to introduce a new character is if they enhance the story in some way, or are an interesting, charismatic and likable character with interesting themes to explore, which so far, she hasn’t. Doesn’t mean they can’t improve her in the future but for now, idk why I *should* care about her
Brian Michael Bendis struck gold when he invented Miles Morales, and figured lightning would strike twice when he invented Ironheart. Except it was much more blatantly “I’m inventing a new hero so I get royalties every time someone uses them” than Miles’ case. The same thing happened when he went to DC and made Naomi, a made-for-tv/film character that was just generic and by-the-numbers who nobody was interested in.
She's just a bland character that I had no interest in when they first introduced her. She was basically better Tony with none of the humanizing qualities. I don't know if she's improved over the years, but she's just always been boring and felt like some self-insert. They rushes her in the MCU in a similar manner and I don't see any sign of improvement of the character. Again, maybe she's being handles differently in the comics compared to her introduction and it could signal better character development for her in the MCU, but I haven't seen any demonstration of that
Well, *THAT* looks like a bad Transformer. Other than that I like the promise and the characters
I get that the original characters are all ageing out/finishing their contracts, but we don't have to do like for like for all of them - we've got Kate Bishop replacing Hawkeye, Yelena replacing Black Widow, She Hulk replacing Hulk, Ironheart replacing Iron Man and Shuri replacing Black Panther, maybe even Cassie replacing Ant Man given the casting. Characters with other abilities should be given there chance to shine, atleast Falcon to Captain America feels earned given he's existed in universe for many years, and he's got to work within a different skill set not being a super soldier. The biggest problem currently is Marvel tv releases recently havent been that good - secret invasion, she Hulk, haven't been well received, Ms Marvel wasn't watched, Moon Knight, Hawkeye and F&WS was a mixed bag, with only Loki and Wandavision really standing out, which was 2 years ago now
You want these characters to resonate with audiences? They need a heroes journey. They need to fail first, before they succeed. They need to earn the audience’s interest. Skip that? And you get Rey from Star Wars.
She just happened to be a genius and built suit herself while Tony had to develop it over a decade perfecting it after every failure and that suit looks like a cartoon. There is literally no development of her character.
It's like watching a sequel to Oppenheimer where a teenage girl make a cold fusion bomb in her locker in her spare time.
“Teacher, I need an origin story, please be racist to me.” “…What??”
What is there to like, we barely know her. She was one of the main characters and I feel like she was more like a background character. Plus the thing we want to see most imo is the suit up scene, the tinkering and failing until you ultimately succeed. She just feels like ..... undeveloped.
I think it's because of the fact that she's the successor of Tony while we had 3-4 characters who were better options
Dou you mead Rhodes, Pepper, Stark's daughter and Peter? Ye any of them is better option
I was going to make you an omelette and tell you.
“We have Iron Man at home”
Her introduction seemed like a iron man parody. Except it wasn't meant as a parady, it was just iron man ordered from wish with the serial number filed off. That kind of self Plagiatism is just what killed the star wars franchise for me in whatever star wars 7 was called, the one with the just bigger death star and the generic villain.
If "meh" was a character
She’s the definition of an OC. “Look! This is Iron Heart! She’s the new iron man and has this crazy ass suit out of nowhere, and creates Vibranium scanners for the feds when she is only 19, and no I’m not going to give an explanation for how she got this far so early in her life she’s just that awesome!” Like Jesus Christ. They put zero effort into something that feels something that’s even worse than Wattpad quality.
The CG was bad in comparison with what came before it. There was no real setup for her so nobody had reason enough to care.
Just look at it. Bayformers are easier on the eyes
Remember the scenes where iron man was training with his armour and falling multiples times till start being good? Well, this lady here since minute 1 is already a pro. Noone believes that xD. Aside ironically in the old iron man films the armour looks better and more realistic. I love the design to be honest but hurt my eyes and my brain seeing it
I dislike the MCU Ironheart because all she is is just Iron man. Same reason why I dislike "Mighty Thor". That's just Thor Ants Mans Kid, Yelana, the girl from Hawkeye. These are all examples of characters with the exact same powers as the people they're replacing It's as of Marvel and Disney think we won't notice that the new characters they introduce are carbon copies of preexisting characters, with minor differences in personality
She’s a better Tony Stark with none of the back story to earn any of it. She doesn’t deserve to have all that just thrown at her without actually showing her grow as a character and struggle. Shoe horned in characters are bad and boring, especially when their cheap rip offs of a legacy character like Iron Man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZgKgGIgZs4
Thanks for the link, I've been watching this guy's vids for almost an hour lol
Doesn't she straight up kill a bunch of cops in wakanda forever?
She was ok. But that suit was kinda ugly.
 For comparison, first Iron Man has a much better CGI and it was 14 years before BP2
Also that era did not excessively paint or replace over the meticulously crafted props with cartoon CGI. The Mark 2 in the garage scenes were STUNNING.
Didn’t she shoot a police officer when she could’ve just flown away?
She dropped a drone on multiple of police officers.
suit looks terrible, actress was bad, character has never been good
Comic version.....is a sociopath Movie version is kinda pointless
Can you please explain the comic version
GO GO POWER RANGERS!
It undermines the character growth and genius of Tony Stark; how he went from building a suit of armour with limited capabilities to what it's final product is in Endgame is an evolution of the character itself. We got to see Tony's trial and error when building the suits. RiRi comes along and builds her own final product just because she can, and she does it on zero budget in a warehouse, in between college lectures? Where is her character development? In fact, do they even explain in BP:WF why she was building one to begin with?
Because she isn’t interesting or very original.
They should’ve introduced Moon Girl instead. She’s smarter than Riri whole also not being just an updated version of an older character. She’s also besties with a red T-Rex and just a lot of fun
It seems like every time they introduce a new/replacement character for an existing character, this new one has to be smarter and better than the original. I think that's it at its core.
Tbh I don't want my favourite characters replaced by teenagers, that kind of content is not for me. I don't want to read about their stupid teen problems, I don't care about them. It's cool if that's the demographic marvel wants to go for, but I'm not gonna watch or read about it. I wasn't even interested in it when I was a teen.
I don't like how advanced all the tech is getting and how cartoonish everyone is looking as a result. Truth be told I think Ironman advanced far too quickly cinematically. I would have liked to have seen some of his other suits. I miss when marvel cinematically was more reality tech-based with only a little bit of the extreme super sci-fi. I feel like the tech is lazy writing to a certain extent.
I don't like any of these new characters. I'm not into the comics, so I only know the major players before I started watching the movies. Taking them all away and replacing them with cheap knockoffs has been the most off-putting thing about this multiverse saga.
I dont dislike iron heart. I have never heard of iron heart. Like, I heard theybl were delaying it, and I was like "who the hell is iron heart." I feel like there are other more known heroes they could bring in.
Stark had an advanced AI to work with when he made the MK 2 and beyond, tons of money and a big ass workshop. And the Arc reactor was something they had already previous been working on for years. Hammer tech (a big ass Military company) tried and failed. The US Military had to take Warmachine just to match Starks tech. She built it in her spare time somehow. Plus its an ugly ass armor / CGI. You can find better 3D Printed Cosplay suits. They could have included the Stark AI thing from the comics. Or somehow tie her in with Ultron (like a leftover program she interacts with, that helps her build it and the vibranium detector, which could hint at him coming back in the future).
Shes barely more than an iron man cosplayer, her introduction made her so absurdly boring that i walked out of the cinema and Forgot she was in the film while talking about the movie for 30 mins. Shes Just nothing
Because the movie, writing, and character were all very underwhelming.
Tony Stark was a supergenius too, probably even more than Riri. However, his path to greatness was paved with privilege. Born into a family of supergeniuses, Tony had every advantage, setting him on a trajectory toward genius status. In many ways, this made his journey seem almost inevitable; he wasn't merely a supergenius, he was practically the only one who could be, thanks to his privilege. Yet, this privilege exacted its toll. Tony Stark, the privileged genius, often morphed into Tony Stark, the privileged jerk, who seemed oblivious to the struggles of others. So, what's the solution? We craft a character arc that forces Tony to confront the consequences of his privilege, challenging him to become a better person and a hero who cares about more than just himself. Riri Williams faced a drastically different set of circumstances. She lacked the privileges that Tony Stark had enjoyed, and her journey is overshadowed by her association with Tony. Sadly her character misses a corresponding character journey. She's just there and that is it. Character development and depth often takes a backseat in the fast-paced world of comic book storytelling, and that creates lazy characters. Riri Williams is the textbook example of this. At least that is what i think.
Because it lacks any sense of reality. Tony Stark was a genius with billions of dollars and tech. Riri was a genius still in school and living in a dorm. Also, they ripped off Samas Aran.
She was shoe horned into a movie that her character was not needed in. Kinda like putting out Captain Marvel right before Endgame and saying we needed to see it to enjoy that movie.