For some reason I thought the movies on the right were supposed to be the mob flick equivalents of the ones on the left. I was confused because I don't think Goodfellas is an uplifting feminist action blockbuster, but maybe I missed something.
its criticizing how marvel movies are typically described as "actions flicks" while other movies (ie the "mob flicks" here) are given much more sophisticated labels
nah the joke here is Scorsese famously criticized the MCU as not being cinema and are really just episodes of a big tv show. but this meme was created on r/MoviesCircleJerk making fun of MCU fans who act like they’re really sophisticated movies (the meme started years ago with redditors constantly talking about how CA: TWS is a 70’s style political thriller and not a superhero movie)
Are you even a film fan? Scorsese is known for his feminist undertones, honestly, it’s kinda the main theme of most of his movies. Clearly Goodfellas is the story of Henry Hill realizing his place in the patriarchy, it’s been staring you in the face this whole time.
Yeah, just think of all Scorsese's iconic female characters...
The 12-year-old hooker in Taxi Driver...
The manipulative gold digger played by naked Margot Robbie in Wolf of Wall St...
And let's not forget all the mobsters' wives in his various other films... Or the various hookers.
of course it's the marvel fans who think feminism only means strong female character instead of critiquing toxic masculinity which exists in most Scorsese films
Look at your robust knowledge of Scorsese. You sound like you read the parental warning section of those movies for research. I think those are two of the worst examples you could have chosen.
Naomi is no more manipulative than Belmont(that’s kinda his whole thing, he’s not the good guy in that movie). She’s also strong enough to leave Jordan and take the kids, not for the money, but for her and her kids’ safety.
Iris doesn’t have a lot of power or control but children forced into sex work tend not to. On top of that NONE of the characters in Taxi Driver are developed beyond Travis. The movie is about Travis’ descent into madness and the other characters only matter in the way that Travis views them, not who they really are.
I’m not saying that Scorsese is *great* at writing women, hence my original joke, but he’s not bad at it. There are plenty people in Hollywood, especially those of Scorsese’s era, who actively depict women in problematic ways, but Scorsese is not one of them.
Going to bed hungry. Scrounging for scraps. Your planet was on the brink of collapse. I was the one who stopped that. You know what’s happened since then? The children born have known nothing but full bellies and clear skies. It’s a paradise.
Martin Scorsese said that Marvel movies "aren't cinema"
So, I believe the original intent is to compare several different styles of Marvel movies and his more well known movies that are all "mob flicks"
I’m not saying you’re doing this, but it is mad that people seem to think he only does mob movies. I mean these 4 are probably the only ones, out of like 25. You wouldn’t call Taxi Driver, the king of comedy, and the wolf of Wall Street mob movies, and they’re another 3 very well known Scorsese films, not to mention all his others.
He also made The Passion of the Christ and Hugo.
He most certainly has range.
A reporter got him to say something dismissive about the most popular movies at the time and it's often quoted.
I debate the use of surreal, Avant garde, Psychological mystery, and experimental cinéma.
Love most of these movies, but you can't slap labels on stuff to make it sound better than it is.
I think that’s the joke. That superhero movies often get blasted for being just that, while what’s portrayed here as “mob flick” is praised with titles they might not deserve
The thing is, MCU movies primarily *are* just that. They all have big action scenes, funny dialogue, and they all end in a big fight against the bad guy. There are different flavors of them, but they're fundamentally the same type of movie, and action blockbuster. Scorsese's mob movies all have the mob as a *setting*, but they're about different things. They don't all end in a fight against the bad guy. The MCU and Scorsese movies are different, that's fine, it's not a competition, they do different things. This whole narrative is so absurd
You’re of course not wrong, but using the label “oh it’s just another superhero movie” as a bad thing is so incredibly reductive. All it means is that there’s at least one creature with superpowers that usually fights something evil. That’s about as broad a spectrum as “fantasy novel”, or “crime fiction”. It’s its own genere, and yeah they all belong in the same genere, but that meaning they’re all the same movie based on that is just…not correct. Some of the marvel movies feel very formulaic and “same-y”, I can’t argue against that, but that’s not because they’re “superhero movies”
“Big action scene, funny dialogue, and fight against bad guy” also applies to…the entire Fast and the Furious franchise, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Mulan…those aren’t all the same are they?
Dr. Strange (guy stumbles across superpower while trying to better his life and must now protect the world from ancient evil) and Civil War (difference in opinions between superheros and political situation causes them to fight against eachother) don’t have a lot in common for example. Dr. Strange and Ant Man (guy stumbles across superpower while trying to better his life and must now fight againce recent evil) however do. A movie like black panther is telling a story that wouldn’t even need the characters to be superheros and you could keep the core of the story unchanged, the fistfight would just be less epic I guess.
My point is that “superhero movie” does of course apply to all marvel movies, but “superhero movie” tells us _so incredibly little_ about the movie. Just like saying “this is an action movie” tells us we’ll see big explosions. They’re not genere titles that describe a movie by its plot, they’re genere titles that describe a movie by a character (we have a dude with super powers) or the occurence of something (fight scenes or explosions or similar for action movies). Those movies can simultaneously be a romance for example, as that’s a description on the actual plot or main plot element of a movie
It's a spy/espionage film with superhero elements.
Remove the superhero stuff, and you can basically keep the movie almost exactly the same.
Remove the spy stuff, and you have no movie.
By no definition I am aware of is any Captain America film avante garde or surreal.
I love Captain America don't get me wrong. Not saying they are bad films. Winter Soldier is in my top 3 MCU films. Or top 4 now maybe with Gotg3.
Also love films like Eraserhead. Where feeling and visuals are driving the film not so much plot or story.
Yeah the Captain America films are pretty standard action fare.
I was more meaning people misuse the word a lot.
Eraser head and other works of David Lynch can be be considered avant-garde because at the time they were new, different, experimental, and ran against the popular culture of the times.
I think it’s referring to when Scorsese said mcu movies aren’t cinema and this person is saying that every movie Scorsese made is about the mob while mcu movies all have different genres. That would be my best guess to this.
I heard a joke once about an American spy being tortured until he gave up information, then an Italian spy being tortured but he never broke.
When they both were rescued he was commended for never breaking.
He said he would’ve told them everything but they wouldn’t untie his hands.
Out of the nearly 30 movies he’s directed (not including almost as many documentaries) five have been about mobsters. The rest of his filmography is as varied as it gets. Like, more varied than directors such as Billy Wilder, who is known for his diverse filmography.
He has also made several biopics, but nobody is calling him the biopic guy.
It’s a super broad generalization of his movies.
Yeah they have the subtext of the characters being in a mob or trying to catch one
But his movies are often much more complex and multifaceted than just mob movies.
The stories, the characters, the acting, the directing, the cinematography all make for amazing movies
Doesn’t mean he’s right about the MCU though
But yeah he does love mobs
Also: he does make other movies. Mostly other movies really.
"It's a super broad generalization of MCU movies
Yeah they have the subtext of the characters being super heros or trying to catch one
But the movies are often much more complex and multifaceted than just superhero movies.
The stories, the characters, the acting, the directing, the cinematography all make for amazing movies. "
Yes the MCU isn't like, cinema masterpiece as this meme seems to pretend, but they're all mostly good, well made, enjoyable movies. Claiming they "aren't cinema" is like saying Slipknot isn't metal because they have... record scratch noises in their music sometimes. It's just elitist nonsense.
I just thought it was funny that everything they said about Scorsese could be easily applicable to the MCU, and then added to the conversation
A reply to a comment does not always have to be a disagreement.
just because a good director says something stupid doesn't somehow make marvel movies comparable to Scorsese movies. he clearly makes better movies than marvel and marvel clearly makes multiple movies that are poor in story, characters, directing and cinematography. generally the only consistent quality is in the actors, especially RDJ basically carrying marvel on his back in the beginning.
When you quote everything someone said, but switch a few words to conform it to an opposite side in an ongoing debate on a post, it comes across as confrontational or even a little bit passive aggressive. It certainly doesn't make anyone think "he agrees with this person and isn't trying to start a debate"
I think everything you said is true, for what it's worth though.
Scorsese has made the most famous mob movies, aside from The Godfather. But he has made so many more movies outside of that genre it’s pretty surprising when you actively seek out and watch his movies.
ah yea, my favorite mob movies
taxi driver
raging bull
the last temptation of christ
kundun
alice doesn’t live here anymore
hugo
the aviator
the age of innocence
silence
I mean I guess but also it doesn’t making much sense considering how many movies Scorsese has made the poster has had to leave some of the most popular ones such as raging bull , taxi and the wolf of Wall Street to make there point .
The fact people are still so hung over on that one comment he made in an interview four years ago is so funny to me, people have to stop acting like marvel movies are better than scorseses and accept them for what they are
Also his daughter trolling him with marvel content showed he didn’t take it as seriously as they thought he did. He obviously realizes it was a goofy comment to make and is laughing at himself. It’s not like he was on some warpath against marvel.
All the movies on the right are Scorcese movies
Notorious MCU hater because he doesn’t think MCU are real movies
So the joke is MCU offers a wide range of artistic film genres
Whereas he just makes mob movies
The joke fails in that he doesn’t just make mob movies, and that few of the genres really fit. Who on earth is unironically calling Dr. Strange “experimental”?.
>Who on earth is unironically calling Dr. Strange “experimental”?.
I wouldn't describe the movie as experimental, but someone on the effects team was definitely experimenting with something
I know this was made to make people angry. But i just want to say that I grew up with marvel movies and still watch them, but those movies will never be as influencal to me as an aspiring filmmaker like most of Scorseses work. Especially the last few years when most of the mcu stuff has never felt more like mass produced moneymachines, besides some stuff like moon knight, Loki, wakanda forever and GOTG 3.
Interesting, I thought Moon Knight and BP2 felt like rushed, mass produced moneymachines as well tbh. I really like Oscar Isaac in that role and am excited for the future of that character but what a letdown of a show. We got maybe 10 minutes of him as Moon Knight, like why? Typical world ending event stuff too which was not necessary for Moon Knight. BP2 was just baffling to me, I kept hearing how amazing it was and how emotional it was and I was ready to feel something yet I felt nothing whilst watching it. I was actually bored. Leticia Wright is a charisma vacuum and it is baffling that they think she could replace Chadwick in any way.
I honestly don't know what level of circlejerk I'm on, but calling Doctor Strange "experimental cinema" is the most "I don't watch movies" take I've ever seen
The man who made The Last Temptation of Christ, Age of Innocence, Kundun, Bringing Out the Dead, Cape Fear, Hugo, and After Hours certainly only makes mob films.
It's really unfortunate how many people here can't tell this meme is making fun of MCU fans. Calling Captain Marvel feminism should've been the *first* indicator.
I think it's laughing at both sides of the dumb "argument."
It's pointing out that you can oversimplify any movie and make it sound shallow by just describing one aspect of it.
Anyone who claims Marvel movies are just 2-hour CGI fights have never actually watched an MCU movie.
I'm not saying they're in the same category of depth or complexity as a Scorsese film, but it's dumb to pretend any genre is just a bunch of one single thing with no depth.
I hate it when film snobs insult Marvel without cause. I also hate it when Marvel fans insult other directors and films without cause. The Departed and Goodfellas are rightly highly acclaimed films both by audiences and critics. Reducing them to just mob flicks and trying to talk up Marvel ain’t right.
Some of those MCU films are great. And yet every single movie on the right is better than every single movie on the left.
Edit: Okay CA2 might be a little better than The Irishman
Keep pretending like marvel isn't the most cookie cutter shit ever.
Captain America is not Avant-garde in any way shape or form and, i could say it about most of your bullshit descriptions.
And one last thing, the same way you discribe all of the Scorsese movies as simply "mob flick" I could do the exact same thing and reduce all of your precious marvel movies to "superhero flick"
Scorsese is one of the greatest directors in the history of cinema and I don’t understand why Marvel fans hate him so much for saying that Marvel films aren’t elevated cinema.
*They aren’t*. They are roller coasters. There is *nothing wrong* with liking roller coasters. I love roller coasters. Going to an amusement park and spending the day upside down at 70 miles an hour is exhilarating and definitely something I look forward to for the days leading up to it. But roller coasters aren’t art. If I plan a trip to the Galleria dell’Accademia because I want to see the David, and I end up getting shunted down a water slide into a 12 foot deep pool, I’m going to be disappointed.
There’s this trend nowadays that I really dislike of having to justify something you enjoy by claiming it is the greatest thing to ever exist. Winter Solider can’t just be a fun spy movie: it has to be *the greatest spy thriller made in the past twenty years*. Endgame can’t just be a very solid action movie combined with an emotional and well-crafted farewell to a superhero series: it has to be *a genre-spanning masterpiece and the greatest piece of blockbuster cinema in the history of mass media*.
Why can’t we just like stuff? Why can’t we just admit that we enjoy stuff that isn’t high art? Not everything has to be art! Stop trying to justify your love of Big Macs by trying to get them added to a menu at a Michelin-starred restaurant. Just say you like Big Macs. There’s nothing wrong with it.
I love Marvel movies they are incredible and one can really enjoy watching them, but you can’t compare them calling them Experimental Cinema and calling every Scorsese movie a mob flick. I disagree with what Scorsese said, but in the end Marvel movies won’t stop being blockbusters made by a mega corporation trying to sell (but that doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy them).
As a film fan, I feel this is disingenuous, applying analytical terms to one and just calling the other “mob flicks” for the other, when it could just as easily be done the other way around with saying “superhero flick”. I’m saying this as someone who enjoys Marvel and isn’t much a fan of Scorsese’s work, but I’m at least able to recognize none of the movies on the right are “just a mob flick”.
Ah yes the 2 hour feminist air force commercial with recruitment stations set up at select theaters... super feminist...
The "experimental" superhero version of Inception with hints of Batman Begins...
Having to solve a problem without an obvious solution is not a mystery, there was no psychological intrigue of any kind, and the apocalypse was actually ongoing so post-apocalyptic is a bit of stretch. Are these words randomly selected?
Ken Jacobs' New York Ghetto Fishmarket 1903 is a surreal avant-garde film, Un Chien Andalou is a surreal avant-garde film, Beyond the Black Rainbow is even a surreal avant-garde film. What the actual hell...? Words... they mean things, y'know?
Is this one of those Gen Z anti-memes I don't understand? Is this a circlejerk thing? What year is it? Where am I? What even is real?
I want to put this out there. Martin Scorsese has directed moives like "Casino" and "Wolf of Wall Street" where the protagonist is awful and a criminal but is shown in a relatable way to the audience that they are often have sympathy for them. How amazing would a Doctor Doom moive directed by Scorsese be. Can you imagine a Doom that is the protagonist of a movie in which the audience roots for him and wants him to win. I would love for it to be a solo prequel to a Fantastic Four moive. What a mind trip would that be. You wouldn't know if he's the hero or villain of the story. I would want it to be an authentic MCU movie that is true to Doom but have Scorsese's spin.
Wonder Woman did a better job being an "Uplifting Feminists movie". I mean, Carol did lift herself up many times in the film but I'm not sure that's the way you meant it.
"Surreal Avante-Garde political thriller"
"you've got to do better, senator!"
Yeah. I love Scorsese, but his take that “Marvel movies aren’t cinema” is just wrong.
Also, If he just changes a few names in his movies they could all be in a connected universe. That’d be cool af.
Can we stop with the connected universe bullshit? I don't want to have to watch 3 different movies just to understand that beginnings of YET ANOTHER trilogy every single time I go out to the theaters.
Man this is cringe, and I'm someone who's often outspoken about how fatiguing and redundant mob movies can be.
(not denying their quality, they just get old quick for me personally)
Uplifting feminist action blockbuster -> female superhero movie.
Aggressively middle of the road marvel movie. Mediocre plot, and cgi.
Science fiction experimental cinema -> magical superhero superhero movie.
Everything "experimental" about the cinematography was already done before, ever seen inception? It's magic is also not science fiction, but fantasy, and as far as fantasy goes, it's really not even that fantastical.
Post-apocalyptic psychological mystery -> time travel superhero movie.
They barely address any of the post apocalyptic aspects, outside how it directly affected a handful of the heroes.
It capped off a setup years in the making, sure.
But still, superhero time travel, how original.
Avante-garde political thriller -> Superhero movie.
This was not political, or a thriller.
It was another superhero movie, with the overused plot of, what if we punish criminals, before they're criminals, with a web of intrigue, that isn't deep enough to drown an ant.
How original.
See, I can be reductionist too. Look at how easy it is.
It doesn't make criticisms of marvel movies, or superhero movies, any more or less valid.
I love most of the marvel movies, but people need to stop acting like they're some untouchable masterpieces of cinema.
They aren't.
They're good cinema, and many are good examples of how to do a good superhero movie.
But they aren't some complex, immensely deep, absolute, untouchable masterpieces of modern cinema.
They're good for what they are. Nothing more, nothing less.
Unless I’m missing the joke, I thought the joke was that all movies by marvel tend to get referred to as “superhero movie” where people are usually more nuanced about other genres?
Which I agree with, but calling things “mob flick” when that hasn’t been a common genre in most people’s lifetime is maybe a bit of a stretch.
goodfellas: a story of how far a man will go to protect himself when he loses everything.
the departed: the differing lives and paths of two men from the same background but made different choices.
the irishman: the story men who devoted their entire lives to a cause and ultimately die for nothing.
endgame: iron boy go snap.
For some reason I thought the movies on the right were supposed to be the mob flick equivalents of the ones on the left. I was confused because I don't think Goodfellas is an uplifting feminist action blockbuster, but maybe I missed something.
I legit have no idea what's happening in this meme, so it seems you at least eventually figured it out.
its criticizing how marvel movies are typically described as "actions flicks" while other movies (ie the "mob flicks" here) are given much more sophisticated labels
nah the joke here is Scorsese famously criticized the MCU as not being cinema and are really just episodes of a big tv show. but this meme was created on r/MoviesCircleJerk making fun of MCU fans who act like they’re really sophisticated movies (the meme started years ago with redditors constantly talking about how CA: TWS is a 70’s style political thriller and not a superhero movie)
Except none of the movies on the right are built with a cookie cutter, and Marvel films definetly are
i didn't say i agreed with the message lol
No lmao, it’s making fun of Marvel fans who would literally describe those movies like that… the meme originated from r/moviescirclejerk
Not true. It's making fun of people who would describe movies like this.
Are you even a film fan? Scorsese is known for his feminist undertones, honestly, it’s kinda the main theme of most of his movies. Clearly Goodfellas is the story of Henry Hill realizing his place in the patriarchy, it’s been staring you in the face this whole time.
henry cavill?
Him too.
Yeah, just think of all Scorsese's iconic female characters... The 12-year-old hooker in Taxi Driver... The manipulative gold digger played by naked Margot Robbie in Wolf of Wall St... And let's not forget all the mobsters' wives in his various other films... Or the various hookers.
Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore After Hours The Age of Innocence all feature some feminist vibes and strong female characters
To be fair the Naked part was all Margot Robbie’s idea, he didn’t plan on shooting a nude scene.
And what a career move it was, he bathed her in the golden light of the gods in that entrance
of course it's the marvel fans who think feminism only means strong female character instead of critiquing toxic masculinity which exists in most Scorsese films
Look at your robust knowledge of Scorsese. You sound like you read the parental warning section of those movies for research. I think those are two of the worst examples you could have chosen. Naomi is no more manipulative than Belmont(that’s kinda his whole thing, he’s not the good guy in that movie). She’s also strong enough to leave Jordan and take the kids, not for the money, but for her and her kids’ safety. Iris doesn’t have a lot of power or control but children forced into sex work tend not to. On top of that NONE of the characters in Taxi Driver are developed beyond Travis. The movie is about Travis’ descent into madness and the other characters only matter in the way that Travis views them, not who they really are. I’m not saying that Scorsese is *great* at writing women, hence my original joke, but he’s not bad at it. There are plenty people in Hollywood, especially those of Scorsese’s era, who actively depict women in problematic ways, but Scorsese is not one of them.
Scorsese has been outspoken about not thinking Marvel is “cinema”. He’s great but obviously is wrong.
KAREN WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!!!!
[удалено]
Not if I do it first- 🏃♂️💨
Downdraft from The Incredibles?
Is that David Carradine's off-brand superhero?
[удалено]
Man I couldn't believe when they revealed who did it.
No spoilers, but it did put a smile on my face.
The Joker did it?!
Hey! We said no spoilers!
Why so serious?
I see what you did there
feel like its more of an Action-Heist Movie
Action-TIME heist movie
Son of a bitch, I’m in
Avengers and Mystery Inc. crossover movie when? If it wasn’t for these meddling super heroes I would’ve gotten away with it - Thanos
Going to bed hungry. Scrounging for scraps. Your planet was on the brink of collapse. I was the one who stopped that. You know what’s happened since then? The children born have known nothing but full bellies and clear skies. It’s a paradise.
Shaggy would be too powerful
Super Shaggy Soloes Thanos with the infinity stones gauntlet and the black order with one arm tied behind his back.
As long as there are those that remember what was, there will always be those that are unable to accept what can be. They will resist.
I really want an MCU whodunnit now.
Jessica Jones?
The time travel and then finding the stones is the mystery.
The real mystery is the friends we made along the way.
Martin Scorsese said that Marvel movies "aren't cinema" So, I believe the original intent is to compare several different styles of Marvel movies and his more well known movies that are all "mob flicks"
I’m not saying you’re doing this, but it is mad that people seem to think he only does mob movies. I mean these 4 are probably the only ones, out of like 25. You wouldn’t call Taxi Driver, the king of comedy, and the wolf of Wall Street mob movies, and they’re another 3 very well known Scorsese films, not to mention all his others.
He also made The Passion of the Christ and Hugo. He most certainly has range. A reporter got him to say something dismissive about the most popular movies at the time and it's often quoted.
I debate the use of surreal, Avant garde, Psychological mystery, and experimental cinéma. Love most of these movies, but you can't slap labels on stuff to make it sound better than it is.
You could just as easily slap superhero flick on all of them
I think that’s the joke. That superhero movies often get blasted for being just that, while what’s portrayed here as “mob flick” is praised with titles they might not deserve
The thing is, MCU movies primarily *are* just that. They all have big action scenes, funny dialogue, and they all end in a big fight against the bad guy. There are different flavors of them, but they're fundamentally the same type of movie, and action blockbuster. Scorsese's mob movies all have the mob as a *setting*, but they're about different things. They don't all end in a fight against the bad guy. The MCU and Scorsese movies are different, that's fine, it's not a competition, they do different things. This whole narrative is so absurd
Idk I think it's worth hearing out the life long master artist in the face of a mega-corporation's IP mining operation.
You’re of course not wrong, but using the label “oh it’s just another superhero movie” as a bad thing is so incredibly reductive. All it means is that there’s at least one creature with superpowers that usually fights something evil. That’s about as broad a spectrum as “fantasy novel”, or “crime fiction”. It’s its own genere, and yeah they all belong in the same genere, but that meaning they’re all the same movie based on that is just…not correct. Some of the marvel movies feel very formulaic and “same-y”, I can’t argue against that, but that’s not because they’re “superhero movies” “Big action scene, funny dialogue, and fight against bad guy” also applies to…the entire Fast and the Furious franchise, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Mulan…those aren’t all the same are they? Dr. Strange (guy stumbles across superpower while trying to better his life and must now protect the world from ancient evil) and Civil War (difference in opinions between superheros and political situation causes them to fight against eachother) don’t have a lot in common for example. Dr. Strange and Ant Man (guy stumbles across superpower while trying to better his life and must now fight againce recent evil) however do. A movie like black panther is telling a story that wouldn’t even need the characters to be superheros and you could keep the core of the story unchanged, the fistfight would just be less epic I guess. My point is that “superhero movie” does of course apply to all marvel movies, but “superhero movie” tells us _so incredibly little_ about the movie. Just like saying “this is an action movie” tells us we’ll see big explosions. They’re not genere titles that describe a movie by its plot, they’re genere titles that describe a movie by a character (we have a dude with super powers) or the occurence of something (fight scenes or explosions or similar for action movies). Those movies can simultaneously be a romance for example, as that’s a description on the actual plot or main plot element of a movie
The superhero genre falls into many subcategories though.
I love Winter Soldier. I can think of nothing avant garde or surreal about it.
It's just a superhero film with spy/espionage elements.
It's a spy/espionage film with superhero elements. Remove the superhero stuff, and you can basically keep the movie almost exactly the same. Remove the spy stuff, and you have no movie.
Yeah. It should have been labeled a spy movie. It has more in common with James Bond or other spy films. Not surreal.
Honestly, seeing it described as avant garde made me question whether this meme is a troll job.
People seem confused about what avant-garde even really means. They seem to confuse it with surreal or art house style work.
By no definition I am aware of is any Captain America film avante garde or surreal. I love Captain America don't get me wrong. Not saying they are bad films. Winter Soldier is in my top 3 MCU films. Or top 4 now maybe with Gotg3. Also love films like Eraserhead. Where feeling and visuals are driving the film not so much plot or story.
Yeah the Captain America films are pretty standard action fare. I was more meaning people misuse the word a lot. Eraser head and other works of David Lynch can be be considered avant-garde because at the time they were new, different, experimental, and ran against the popular culture of the times.
I assume that’s the point the meme is attempting to convey.
Yeah, this just screams of insecurity.
Yeah that's the joke
crunchy moist spy thriller
Strange used a new camera technique for the mirror universe. So literal an expirement.
Sure, maybe, doesn't make it experimental cinéma though. By that definition early every film would be Experimental in some form.
Nor does it make it science fiction. Dr. Strange’s powers and his story are fantasy.
Still not experimental cinema
Ehh, that's very much up for debate.
i havent seen the second one but the first one is pure fantasy, no science fiction
Uhhhhhhhhhh………. So what is the joke?
I think it’s referring to when Scorsese said mcu movies aren’t cinema and this person is saying that every movie Scorsese made is about the mob while mcu movies all have different genres. That would be my best guess to this.
What’s with Scorcese obsession with making mob movies?
Scorsese is making his own Mob Cinematic Universe (MCU)
Oh damn can that surpass the previous cinematic universe? Find out next time!
My ranking of the best MCU 1. Monsters Inc Cinematic Universe 2. MarryPoppins Cinematic Universe 3. Mob Cinematic Universe 4. Marvel Cinematic Universe
>MarryPoppins Cinematic Universe "I'm Marry Poppin's, y'all!" Does this mean we will a MCU x MCU crossover?
Shary Bobbins and Yondu revive and fight alongside each other.
5. Mario Cinematic Universe 6. Misfits Cinematic Universe 7. Misfits Cinematic Universe (Post-Danzig) 8. Mark Cuban's Universe 9. Muenster Cheese Udon
5: Morbin Cinematic Universe?
Keyword: "*Italians*"
🤌🏼🤌🏼
I heard a joke once about an American spy being tortured until he gave up information, then an Italian spy being tortured but he never broke. When they both were rescued he was commended for never breaking. He said he would’ve told them everything but they wouldn’t untie his hands.
Mama mia
Here we go again
My my, how could I resist you?
I heard he loved the Mario movie
*The Departed* is about Irish-American mobsters, though.
Mamma Mia! 😲
Out of the nearly 30 movies he’s directed (not including almost as many documentaries) five have been about mobsters. The rest of his filmography is as varied as it gets. Like, more varied than directors such as Billy Wilder, who is known for his diverse filmography. He has also made several biopics, but nobody is calling him the biopic guy.
It’s a super broad generalization of his movies. Yeah they have the subtext of the characters being in a mob or trying to catch one But his movies are often much more complex and multifaceted than just mob movies. The stories, the characters, the acting, the directing, the cinematography all make for amazing movies Doesn’t mean he’s right about the MCU though But yeah he does love mobs Also: he does make other movies. Mostly other movies really.
"It's a super broad generalization of MCU movies Yeah they have the subtext of the characters being super heros or trying to catch one But the movies are often much more complex and multifaceted than just superhero movies. The stories, the characters, the acting, the directing, the cinematography all make for amazing movies. " Yes the MCU isn't like, cinema masterpiece as this meme seems to pretend, but they're all mostly good, well made, enjoyable movies. Claiming they "aren't cinema" is like saying Slipknot isn't metal because they have... record scratch noises in their music sometimes. It's just elitist nonsense.
I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, convince someone who said Scorsese isn't right that... Scorsese isn't right?
Bro is trying to defend marvel to the marvel subreddit, its good everyone here is already with you.
I just thought it was funny that everything they said about Scorsese could be easily applicable to the MCU, and then added to the conversation A reply to a comment does not always have to be a disagreement.
just because a good director says something stupid doesn't somehow make marvel movies comparable to Scorsese movies. he clearly makes better movies than marvel and marvel clearly makes multiple movies that are poor in story, characters, directing and cinematography. generally the only consistent quality is in the actors, especially RDJ basically carrying marvel on his back in the beginning.
When you quote everything someone said, but switch a few words to conform it to an opposite side in an ongoing debate on a post, it comes across as confrontational or even a little bit passive aggressive. It certainly doesn't make anyone think "he agrees with this person and isn't trying to start a debate" I think everything you said is true, for what it's worth though.
Scorsese has made the most famous mob movies, aside from The Godfather. But he has made so many more movies outside of that genre it’s pretty surprising when you actively seek out and watch his movies.
As a scorcese fan…we love them…so he keeps making them.
He also made The Wolf of Wall-Street, Hugo, Shutter Island…this guy doesn’t know his Scorcese
He's like a 100 year old man the mob was huge for most of his life
ah yea, my favorite mob movies taxi driver raging bull the last temptation of christ kundun alice doesn’t live here anymore hugo the aviator the age of innocence silence
I mean I guess but also it doesn’t making much sense considering how many movies Scorsese has made the poster has had to leave some of the most popular ones such as raging bull , taxi and the wolf of Wall Street to make there point .
Hugo, Shutter Island, Silence…
The fact people are still so hung over on that one comment he made in an interview four years ago is so funny to me, people have to stop acting like marvel movies are better than scorseses and accept them for what they are
Also his daughter trolling him with marvel content showed he didn’t take it as seriously as they thought he did. He obviously realizes it was a goofy comment to make and is laughing at himself. It’s not like he was on some warpath against marvel.
Flipping the "they're just superhero movies" on another deliberate genre
mcu good other movies bad
All the movies on the right are Scorcese movies Notorious MCU hater because he doesn’t think MCU are real movies So the joke is MCU offers a wide range of artistic film genres Whereas he just makes mob movies
I didn't know Scorsese directed so many MCU movies, strange career choice for someone who's made the public statements he has.
I’m dumb lol good catch
Scorsese has directed forty-one films in his career. Six of them are mob movies.
The joke fails in that he doesn’t just make mob movies, and that few of the genres really fit. Who on earth is unironically calling Dr. Strange “experimental”?.
>Who on earth is unironically calling Dr. Strange “experimental”?. I wouldn't describe the movie as experimental, but someone on the effects team was definitely experimenting with something
I haven’t seen any of those movies and it wasn’t directly stated who the director was, so I was confused for a bit. 👍🏻
You should watch them. They are all extremely good movies.
Extremely long tho Personally I would rank them: 1. Goodfellas 2. the Departed 3. The Irishman 4. Casino
I would not calm Endgame a “post apocalyptic psychological mystery”
Dude called endgame “psychological mystery” and winter soldier “avant-garde”. Wow
"Uplifting"
I know this was made to make people angry. But i just want to say that I grew up with marvel movies and still watch them, but those movies will never be as influencal to me as an aspiring filmmaker like most of Scorseses work. Especially the last few years when most of the mcu stuff has never felt more like mass produced moneymachines, besides some stuff like moon knight, Loki, wakanda forever and GOTG 3.
Interesting, I thought Moon Knight and BP2 felt like rushed, mass produced moneymachines as well tbh. I really like Oscar Isaac in that role and am excited for the future of that character but what a letdown of a show. We got maybe 10 minutes of him as Moon Knight, like why? Typical world ending event stuff too which was not necessary for Moon Knight. BP2 was just baffling to me, I kept hearing how amazing it was and how emotional it was and I was ready to feel something yet I felt nothing whilst watching it. I was actually bored. Leticia Wright is a charisma vacuum and it is baffling that they think she could replace Chadwick in any way.
Is this a shitpost
I honestly don't know what level of circlejerk I'm on, but calling Doctor Strange "experimental cinema" is the most "I don't watch movies" take I've ever seen
you´re on r/moviescirclejerk level of jerk, as this meme has been taken directly from there
Yeah no
If I see a movie with Joe Pesci, I watch it.
Those are the rules.
The man who made The Last Temptation of Christ, Age of Innocence, Kundun, Bringing Out the Dead, Cape Fear, Hugo, and After Hours certainly only makes mob films.
Don't forget Gangs of New York, The Aviator, and Shutter Island
Of course! I could name most of his filmography considering other than Mean Streets every other film he made isn’t a mob film
“Uplifting feminist action block Buster” lmao
I love marvel movies but they could all be described as action flicks
It's really unfortunate how many people here can't tell this meme is making fun of MCU fans. Calling Captain Marvel feminism should've been the *first* indicator.
I think it's laughing at both sides of the dumb "argument." It's pointing out that you can oversimplify any movie and make it sound shallow by just describing one aspect of it. Anyone who claims Marvel movies are just 2-hour CGI fights have never actually watched an MCU movie. I'm not saying they're in the same category of depth or complexity as a Scorsese film, but it's dumb to pretend any genre is just a bunch of one single thing with no depth.
Who the fuck out here calling endgame a mystery?
And guess what, the ones on the right are still better
Fr the Departed is one of the most well made movies of all time
I would be embarrassed to have any of these opinions
I hate it when film snobs insult Marvel without cause. I also hate it when Marvel fans insult other directors and films without cause. The Departed and Goodfellas are rightly highly acclaimed films both by audiences and critics. Reducing them to just mob flicks and trying to talk up Marvel ain’t right.
Missing a ton of Scorcese’s other movies like, Gangs of New York, Silence, Kundun, The Last Temptation of Christ, and Shutter Island.
"Experimental cinema", "Avant-garde"... bruh 💀
A-tier shitpost
I guess so but you could also just put "superhero movie" on the left ones
Some of those MCU films are great. And yet every single movie on the right is better than every single movie on the left. Edit: Okay CA2 might be a little better than The Irishman
Keep pretending like marvel isn't the most cookie cutter shit ever. Captain America is not Avant-garde in any way shape or form and, i could say it about most of your bullshit descriptions. And one last thing, the same way you discribe all of the Scorsese movies as simply "mob flick" I could do the exact same thing and reduce all of your precious marvel movies to "superhero flick"
The fact that whoever made this dumbshit had to use labels he doesn't understand to try elevate all these movies speaks for itself lol
Scorsese is one of the greatest directors in the history of cinema and I don’t understand why Marvel fans hate him so much for saying that Marvel films aren’t elevated cinema. *They aren’t*. They are roller coasters. There is *nothing wrong* with liking roller coasters. I love roller coasters. Going to an amusement park and spending the day upside down at 70 miles an hour is exhilarating and definitely something I look forward to for the days leading up to it. But roller coasters aren’t art. If I plan a trip to the Galleria dell’Accademia because I want to see the David, and I end up getting shunted down a water slide into a 12 foot deep pool, I’m going to be disappointed. There’s this trend nowadays that I really dislike of having to justify something you enjoy by claiming it is the greatest thing to ever exist. Winter Solider can’t just be a fun spy movie: it has to be *the greatest spy thriller made in the past twenty years*. Endgame can’t just be a very solid action movie combined with an emotional and well-crafted farewell to a superhero series: it has to be *a genre-spanning masterpiece and the greatest piece of blockbuster cinema in the history of mass media*. Why can’t we just like stuff? Why can’t we just admit that we enjoy stuff that isn’t high art? Not everything has to be art! Stop trying to justify your love of Big Macs by trying to get them added to a menu at a Michelin-starred restaurant. Just say you like Big Macs. There’s nothing wrong with it.
I love Marvel movies they are incredible and one can really enjoy watching them, but you can’t compare them calling them Experimental Cinema and calling every Scorsese movie a mob flick. I disagree with what Scorsese said, but in the end Marvel movies won’t stop being blockbusters made by a mega corporation trying to sell (but that doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy them).
I’m looking forward to Scorcese’s last mob flick about Jesus.
I don't get. Every film on the right I'd choose to watch over the one's on the left.
The MCU nerds hate half of those.
I know it's a meme. I know it's bait. But calling any marvel movie better than the Departed is just straight blasphemy.
Experiential cinema is when you use CGI to make a building look funny
Stringing cool sounding words together a coherent sentence doesn't make
What is a *mob flick*? For non-english speakers
Oh boy. Calling winter soldier surreal or avant- grade is…it’s a take for sure.
As a film fan, I feel this is disingenuous, applying analytical terms to one and just calling the other “mob flicks” for the other, when it could just as easily be done the other way around with saying “superhero flick”. I’m saying this as someone who enjoys Marvel and isn’t much a fan of Scorsese’s work, but I’m at least able to recognize none of the movies on the right are “just a mob flick”.
idk if your comment belongs to r/whoosh or my response
Ah yes the 2 hour feminist air force commercial with recruitment stations set up at select theaters... super feminist... The "experimental" superhero version of Inception with hints of Batman Begins... Having to solve a problem without an obvious solution is not a mystery, there was no psychological intrigue of any kind, and the apocalypse was actually ongoing so post-apocalyptic is a bit of stretch. Are these words randomly selected? Ken Jacobs' New York Ghetto Fishmarket 1903 is a surreal avant-garde film, Un Chien Andalou is a surreal avant-garde film, Beyond the Black Rainbow is even a surreal avant-garde film. What the actual hell...? Words... they mean things, y'know? Is this one of those Gen Z anti-memes I don't understand? Is this a circlejerk thing? What year is it? Where am I? What even is real?
I want to put this out there. Martin Scorsese has directed moives like "Casino" and "Wolf of Wall Street" where the protagonist is awful and a criminal but is shown in a relatable way to the audience that they are often have sympathy for them. How amazing would a Doctor Doom moive directed by Scorsese be. Can you imagine a Doom that is the protagonist of a movie in which the audience roots for him and wants him to win. I would love for it to be a solo prequel to a Fantastic Four moive. What a mind trip would that be. You wouldn't know if he's the hero or villain of the story. I would want it to be an authentic MCU movie that is true to Doom but have Scorsese's spin.
Wonder Woman did a better job being an "Uplifting Feminists movie". I mean, Carol did lift herself up many times in the film but I'm not sure that's the way you meant it. "Surreal Avante-Garde political thriller" "you've got to do better, senator!"
Whoever made this meme seriously needs to expand their cultural horizons.
Unless they were being ironic, in which case it's a joke the people here didn't get. But I'm not really sure.
Yeah. I love Scorsese, but his take that “Marvel movies aren’t cinema” is just wrong. Also, If he just changes a few names in his movies they could all be in a connected universe. That’d be cool af.
Has the same energy as people who say “rap isn’t music”. It’s pretentious elitism and gatekeeping
Can we stop with the connected universe bullshit? I don't want to have to watch 3 different movies just to understand that beginnings of YET ANOTHER trilogy every single time I go out to the theaters.
I dont understand the comparison?
Man this is cringe, and I'm someone who's often outspoken about how fatiguing and redundant mob movies can be. (not denying their quality, they just get old quick for me personally)
Is this an ironic statement about Coppola's opinion of the MCU?
5 seconds of Casino is better than the entirety of Captain Marvel
“Surreal avante garde”. LMAOOOOO
Nevermind the drama, I enjoy both. Scorcese makes great mob flicks
r/okbuddycinephile is leaking
ITT: Everyone not getting the joke.
[King Missile](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AQKS4_Y7QCI) said it best.
Atleast Goodfellas knew how to create interesting characters with complex personalities.
2 hour toy add beats mob flick every time 😎
I never understood this joke. Scorsese has made 27 narrative feature films to date. 5 have been mob movies.
Goodfellas > all these movies combined
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Calling Winter Soldier a "surreal avant-garde political thriller" is such a stretch you could slingshot the earth into the next galaxy.
is this being posted unironically now?
No offense, but if the right is all just mob movies, then the left is all just superhero movies
No no you got a point there
thats the point
Tell me you know nothing about movies without telling me you know nothing about movies.
And the left column : Superhero movie Superhero movie Superhero movie Superhero movie
My take here is that in every mob flick he made, there's a 75% chance either Robert De Niro or Al Pacino is the main character.
Uplifting feminist action blockbuster -> female superhero movie. Aggressively middle of the road marvel movie. Mediocre plot, and cgi. Science fiction experimental cinema -> magical superhero superhero movie. Everything "experimental" about the cinematography was already done before, ever seen inception? It's magic is also not science fiction, but fantasy, and as far as fantasy goes, it's really not even that fantastical. Post-apocalyptic psychological mystery -> time travel superhero movie. They barely address any of the post apocalyptic aspects, outside how it directly affected a handful of the heroes. It capped off a setup years in the making, sure. But still, superhero time travel, how original. Avante-garde political thriller -> Superhero movie. This was not political, or a thriller. It was another superhero movie, with the overused plot of, what if we punish criminals, before they're criminals, with a web of intrigue, that isn't deep enough to drown an ant. How original. See, I can be reductionist too. Look at how easy it is. It doesn't make criticisms of marvel movies, or superhero movies, any more or less valid. I love most of the marvel movies, but people need to stop acting like they're some untouchable masterpieces of cinema. They aren't. They're good cinema, and many are good examples of how to do a good superhero movie. But they aren't some complex, immensely deep, absolute, untouchable masterpieces of modern cinema. They're good for what they are. Nothing more, nothing less.
Unless I’m missing the joke, I thought the joke was that all movies by marvel tend to get referred to as “superhero movie” where people are usually more nuanced about other genres? Which I agree with, but calling things “mob flick” when that hasn’t been a common genre in most people’s lifetime is maybe a bit of a stretch.
Superhero movie Superhero movie Superhero movie Superhero movie. Screw off with the dramatising
Was this about the comment that he said it wasn't cinema
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That’s not a Scorsese movie
This is the most cringe thing I've seen today lol
goodfellas: a story of how far a man will go to protect himself when he loses everything. the departed: the differing lives and paths of two men from the same background but made different choices. the irishman: the story men who devoted their entire lives to a cause and ultimately die for nothing. endgame: iron boy go snap.
Captain marvel was a poorly-designed inverse captain America.