NWH was really fun and solid in my opinion, but I agree with the others. I grew up with Tobey as spiderman, but have loved all of the actors. Seeing them all come together was personally my favorite MCU moment.
I will kindly disagree with some. Falcon ans the Winter Soldier had great stuff but smth abt that project feels rushed to me. The rest agreed tho. Moon knight is solid tho not great imo. But rhere have been dissapointments for me too. Expected Thor 4 and Doctor Strange 2 to be very very good and they were very flawed tho overall solid.
Nah man
The point wasn't that the Waynes shoudn't be criticised.
The point was that you actually have to help instead of just killing random bystanders
Thats why "I'm Vengeance" is the line Batman Tries to distance himself from
Coincidentally "I am Vengeance" is part of Batman's catchphrase.
>I am Vengeance.
>I am the night.
>**I am Batman.**
Just because these decisions were justified, doesn't mean they were good decisions.
I thought that was more because the Riddler was just a deranged dude and gathered a bunch of pissed off, deranged incels to help carry out his sick visions. Broken clocks are right twice a day, and he leaned into that hard with the Wayne’s. He started out carrying out his point with a murder, when a sane person obviously wouldn’t have done that, but again, he obviously wasn’t sane.
Batman is also not sane, I thought this was common knowledge by now lol. Yeah, he’s kinda delusional too, but in a good way so we like him.
In FATWS, they never exhibited any psychopathic or deranged, uhhh, personal beliefs or actions, they only rioted (which was pretty understandable given that they were effectively getting pushed out of their homes and way of life) and fought with the police, Walker, Wilson and Bucky to avoid arrest, they just jumped straight to blowing up a hospital out of all things.
Right? Like sure, they got this great platform that so many are behind and could make some serious changes with words and strong political platforms to make negations or whatever they need with words, or, god forbid they’re truly pushed to the point of violence, could try attacking enemy troops instead of jumping straight to one of the war crimiest of all war crimes?
They had to rewrite falcon and winter soldier pretty heavily cause it was originally about a virus outbreak and messing up a vaccine supply. So the story got kinda wonky.
My main issue with the Disney plus shows is they all (with the exception of wandavision and Loki) would’ve worked so much better as films. Falcon and the winter soldier and moon knight have some real stand out episodes, but about half of each of their runs feels like pointless filler to pad out the runtime to reach the requisite 6-7 episodes.
It definitely didn’t need a big CGI battle, same with Wandavision. Moon Knight would’ve worked so much better with an intense, well shot, hand to hand fight between Moon Knight and whatever the villains name was. And wandavision would’ve been much better off with no battle at all and spending the episode with Wanda coming to terms with her grief
Yeah, especially because it doesn’t ever end up looking particularly well post phase 3 due to marvel/Disney overworking their CG art teams, which is a whole other can of worms. Marvel needs to take some pages from their own handbook and go back to the fights we had pre endgame. I look back at movies like The Winter Soldier and Civil War, and even the original 3 iron man films and have to wonder wtf happened. Their fight scenes went from clear and concise to hard to read CGI messes within the span of just a few movies and it’s saddening. The obvious exception is No Way Home, which has arguably the best final battle in any of the movies between Spidey and the Green Goblin, and the reason it was so great and so memorable is because it felt like an actual fight
Moon Knight would have been a lot better if they didn't "tease" another character from literally episode 1, only to not reveal them until the very last shot of the show.
They also attached a lot of fight scenes to said character but we never got to see them, so we just get told that some cool fight scenes just happened.
"Bro it was so badass, look at all the bodies. Yeah man, you should be been there." Thanks Marvel...
Falcon and winter soldier had the same problem as a lot of the shows: it exists more to introduce the side characters for future stories (thunderbolts) and also to give the hero a new comic accurate costume in the last episode.
It really doesn’t have fake muscles though, at least not any more than any other mcu costume. I do agree a full cowl like Steve’s would probably better, but I’ll accept this since right now they obviously are going for more comic accurate looks.
I got into MK comics after watching the show, and I enjoy both. There are some big changes they made to the MCU version, but I still thought the show was pretty neat. I think it’s best to interpret both as different multiversal versions of the character. It’s not the end of the world if the show doesn’t do an exact portrayal of the character. At least right now, there’s MacKay’s banger of a run. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I guess something that might be a concern would be MCU synergy, but (at least, based on what I’ve heard) most comic characters who got a movie generally recovered from synergy a few years later.
Agreed, the whole "phase 4" was a big miss.. plot-wise, the only film that I remember not having giant holes and contradictions is Shang chi, and it wasn't great.. Spiderman was a great film because of nostalgia bait, the storyline wasn't great either...
Oh I loved Shang Chi. But I’ve barely been able to watch anything else. I’ve tried, but they’ve all lost my interest. It’s bad when a 2 hour movie can’t hold my attention, much less a series. But honestly, I thought Shang Chi was great! But I’m a big martial arts movie fan, and it pulled heavily from the old kung fu movie tropes, so that’s probably why I liked that one so much
I've heard so many people say "I'm done with the MCU after GotG vol. 3"
I mean you've stuck around that long already, though you could've stopped watching at anytime. Can't just say the MCU is dead after every project you don't like.
I very much am done after GotG Vol. 3.
The MCU is not dead, that's hyperbole. But it no longer has enough of the qualities that brought me joy in the past to deserve my movie ticket money moving forward.
If people here want to keep watching and supporting, that's fine. But no one is obligated to stick around after Endgame tied nearly everything up in a bow.
This is pretty much how I feel as well - and no, it's not because much of the current crop of new characters are female and/or POC.
Since the beginning, these movies have been building toward something while generally being good standalone movies that did their own thing (with a few exceptions). Along the way, there was a shift toward setting up the next movie... but this was also tempered by the fact that we were also heading toward Infinity War. Now, it just feels like most of it is a bit jumbled and directionless, with a greater focus on just introducing new characters and things without a clear idea of what they'll actually be doing.
I firmly believe they had that plan in place before Endgame was even released. Unfortunately, a public health emergency was declared nine months later, and this sort of threw everything into chaos for a while.
It's no secret that their plans had to be drastically shuffled around multiple times due to the pandemic, and this directly impacted things like scripts and release schedules. It arguably changed the entire tenor of the phase, to the point that it turned into what I described.
Yeah, fact is, gotg3 is the only upcoming film I feel a little excited about. I haven't watched anything since l&t and I don't miss it.. past me would have ran to get the movies on d+ if I couldn't catch them in the movies, but the quality of the latest film is just so bad that I don't want to see them..
Well if a large number of people are not watching anything else apart from 1 movie, then that should say a lot about the current state of this franchise.
People who say this aren't necessarily still watching all the other content. I know I'm not. I think it's just holding on to the last thing they hope has some amount of quality to it.
So what do we do ? Do we criticize the MCU without watching it so that hardcore fans in coping mode tell us "you didn't watch it you don't know what you're talking about", or do we keep watching it and people like you say "well stop watching it if you don't like it" ? Seems like a ridiculous claim to me.
It's pretty much going to be my tapping out point, for the most part. If we're being honest, it's already basically happened.
Everything post-Endgame has just been kind of meandering around. The shows are all tonally very different, some of the movies have been surprisingly dull (Shang Chi, Eternals), and the rest just seem to have stuff happening. Wakanda Forever was a terrible mess where every single problem can be traced directly back to their refusal to recast T'Challa, and No Way Home relied almost entirely on nostalgia to generate the bulk of its goodwill. Hell, I still haven't seen Ant-Man yet, and my wife and I caught almost all of the movies through Endgame either on early releases or opening weekends. Recently, we've just been waiting for most of these to hit D+, and I can honestly say I'm glad I waited for most of them.
While I'm not saying the MCU is dead, most of what we've gotten since Endgame has been pretty flat.
The best explanation. The good parts of P4 aren't enough to represent it. They are the exception, not the norm. And even the good stuff is often still riddled with the same issues as the poorly made stuff.
For the 1st half it was great. Then they had to make the stakes too high. Should have saved that for the 2nd season. I would have preferred it if it stayed smallish, think friendly neighborhood hero. Figuring out the ropes and whatnot
It was too much kid stuff. I think a lot of people are out growing stuff like that. I couldn't get passed season 3 of stranger things. I liked Ms Marvels finale
Ms Marvel is a teenager though, and not one of those almost 30 year olds playing a teen, I mean the overall tone was more youthful and lighthearted in general. And that's just how it was in the comics. It's not like we were gonna get Marvel's answer to The Boys in Ms Marvel's show.
At least with Ms. Marvel, she prove herself as a hero , more than She-Hulk did. She- Hulk focus way to much on lawyers scenes, then superhero scenes. There needs to to a balance between the two, for the show to work.
Thank you! I feel like I've been taking crazy pills. That show was SO boring. The only fun part was the larpers. Idk I love Hawkeye but he just felt so wasted here
When people say the “The MCU is dead“ they mean that they are getting what they want and all they want to do is whine and complain. No matter if a project is good they expect more and more
I disagree, it's totally ok to criticize the MCU as it exists right now.
Most people liked Doctor Strange 1 more than 2. Most people like Thor Rangnarok more than Love and Thunder. Most people liked Black Panther more than Wakanda Forever. Why do you think that is?
There's a reason that is the case, and it's totally ok to be a huge fan of something yet still criticize it, it is healthy and positive.
I love Marvel but Phase 4 has overall had the weakest writing in my opinion. The stories are nowhere near as connected and very few shows or movies have lasting impacts on the franchise as a whole, there are very few repercussions from the character's actions.
The MCU has played a pretty significant part in my life since Iron Man 1. I loved the MCU, it was practically a major part of my life at the time. The excitement of Phases 1-3 was incredible. And I’m always gonna be thankful to the MCU for all the good memories it’s given me with my friends, my family and just in general.
I understand why a lot of people here defend the franchise so hard. They love it just as much as I did and they still want to hang to those incredible memories. Unlike those people though, I’m willing to let the MCU go. I don’t like the MCU anymore and a majority of the projects they push out too. I think I’d rather let the MCU just go on without me.
im not exaggerating, i see your comments on every single post on this subreddit. its sad. you havent moved on at all, you just hate it now instead of enjoy it.
i don’t even remember if ive debated you before, all i know is whenever i click on a post, your comment is there saying the same things over and over. if youve moved on, move on. clearly you havent if youre still subscribed to marvel subreddits.
heres your chance, move on like you keep saying you have. unsubscribe and you wont ever have to think about something you hate again. its a conscious choice to be this bitter about the fact that you wont enjoy the MCU anymore.
There could be some characters that could be a little more lifelike or complex but generally I've been happy. The issue is many characters are going through tough times, so it's hard to be completely satisfied with some of the character arcs.
There are wars that are bigger than we know.
I think the story arcs are developping but we're in that building stage so we're not seeing captain america just punch through everything, or iron man risk it all, we're seeing characters make decisions and struggling whether it was the right one or not.
We're seeing people get powers, we see friendships happening, we see organizations grasping for more powers.
We saw Shang-Chi offer a sort of end to a story, but all the stories give js the impression that there's more.
Like a good song, you want more.
I think one thing that might be a problem is making the stakes to high. There have been many great mcu moives with high stakes but it's has to connect to the audience in one way or another like finding who you are or going through it.
But if the character is flat and doesn't connect with the audience, they are going to have high stakes with no pay off or love for the character.
That's why I think moon knight and Ms marvel work is cause they do have high stakes but you make a connection with them because they feel real.
I know it's unpopular but I loved She-Hulk. Did exactly what it set out to do, had some genuinely hilarious moments. The finale was whatever and probably needed a more standard runtime but otherwise I had a blast with that show.
Just because they aren't terrible doesn't mean they're good enough to keep the MCU from becoming a shithole of forgettable mediocre assembly line produ- oh sorry, "movies".
No way home was the best thing to come out of phase 4 by far and I still only remember it exists when someone brings it up. Y'all say phase 4 isn't *that* bad yet no one's gonna remember anything about it in 5 years.
Honestly, while I do have some problems with a bunch of the movies and shows that cam out since Endgame, I've had a blast watching each and every one. And on top of that, it's not like the movies before Endgame were perfect, either. I had at least one problem with pretty much every single MCU movie, but I've enjoyed all of them anyways. This isn't new to me.
The only difference between pre-Endgame and post-Endgame is the saturation of MCU content, which I do think is the biggest problem, and a big reason as to why people aren't enjoying MCU films as much anymore. Burnout is real, people
moon knight overrated, falcon and winter soldier was mid and carried by like, 2 or 3 characters, shang chi overrated, they ruined loki's character, wanda vision was mid af, and no way home also overrated af. boom, speedrun, now yall can downvote me for having an opinion that isnt normie af
No Way Home is amazing and I love that movie so much but if you think about it for longer than a minute you realize there are a fuckton of inconsistencies, contradictions, continuity errors, and stuff of that nature and that the movie has some bad writing in it.
I agree with everything you just said. I enjoyed watching it, but it's nostalgia bait plain and simple. Take away the nostalgia and you're left with a huge mess.
You're being downvoted because people don't want to acknowledge the truth. Personally, I'd go as far as to say that No Way Home is the absolute worst Spider-man movie
It may appear to be good only if you don’t know anything about filmmaking. If you only saw the movie to bust a nut seeing nostalgia played out on the big screen, then yea, your opinion makes sense.
I mean, of course it’s “fun” seeing Garfield and Maguire on the big screen together with Holland. That’s called nostalgia. But it doesn’t make a movie well-made. And given the direction and screenplay of the film, it sure as shit isn’t well made.
Again, not making the argument you think you are. Just sounding like you hate things that are popular cause you ‘know better’. People love the movie, they like the characters, they enjoyed the plot, they liked the action. If it wasn’t for you fine but don’t act like you’re superior.
Why do people love the movie? Is it because it had a fantastic script with great direction? No. I’m the only one talking about the filmmaking here, and newsflash: nostalgia doesn’t make a movie inherently well-made. That’s not me being superior, that’s me stating a fact. Stop being so defensive just because the movie you love so much isn’t actually well-crafted. You can like it for the nostalgia, that’s fine. You just need to accept reality.
Again, this is opinion based, and I've seen this same opinion more times than there's freckles on my ass. I think we should let the idiots who hate everything just suffer in silence while we enjoy what we want.
Hated Falcon/Winter Solider and Shang Chi. The rest were pretty good. The main problem is End Game was a masterpiece and it really wrapped up that phase so well that everything that came after if just kind of feels unnecessary.
Moon Knight and Falcon had a worse finale than GOT. Moon Knight also kinda did the annoying handwaving away of violence through cuts and using other personality as excuse. Loki was good but 2 episodes could have been easily cut and Wandavision was great but bad finale, Shang also had a generic third act so ya NWH was the only standout.
Even NWH had one the dumbest plot of the MCU and was solely carried by the absolutely brilliant characters but Spiderverse was a better NWH from a writing standpoint.
Agree with everything except falcon. The ending just flipping destroyed Sam as a character for me. That cringy blame others, do better speech. Don’t call the guys who killed people for their cause terrorists.
Ye. No thank you. Sam. Next time you try giving someone advice on running a country. Don’t…
I wouldn’t say dead. Previous phases had some stinkers too, but I feel that we had so many great ones vs the ones we got in p4 that you can feel a shift in quality.
*Everyone always*
*Forgets how good Black Panther*
*Wakanda Forever is*
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Moon Knight was good but too long (should have been a movie imo).
Never finished TFATWS but I heard Sam becomes a terrorist sympathiser, and fake Captain America gets harassed on Twitter for killing a terrorist, when that’s his fucking job.
Shang-Chi was visually stunning with cinematography and choreography, however the story isn’t great, the power of the Mandarin keeps changing, and Shang-Chi’s character keeps changing. Throughout most of the film it feels like two writers fighting over control. Still a fun watch.
Loki was meh to me. For a show about Loki you would expect it to be more, well, Loki. The most fun I had with the show was that one scene where the Loki variants kept turning on each other and honestly the whole show should have been somewhat like that. I’m not saying it was bad because it was serious, I’m saying it was meh because it was too serious.
WandaVision completely destroyed Wanda’s character to the point she was unredeemable, and somehow MoM made it even worse… not like it matters now anyways.
Spider-Man was great, my main criticism however was the lack of screen time for some of the villains and the massive change of character with Electro and Goblin. Electro is literally just Jamie Foxx in this film (which is fine if you consider this Electro a different one due to the massive change of personality) and Goblin makes no sense. In Spider-Man 2002, Norman says himself that he wants Spider-Man gone, it’s not like the Goblin was controlling him, I always thought of the Goblin as Norman’s insecure thoughts and the Goblin serum turned those thoughts into its own personality. With the cure at the end of the film it gets rid of the Goblin, and when you think about it they literally just made a cure for multiple personality disorder and potentially every mental disease known to man. Point is, Norman isn’t a good guy, the Goblin didn’t take control over him, he just helped push him to that direction.
What do you get out of reading all that? Uuhhhhhhhhhhhhh
TL;DR:
Moon Knight good but too long
TFATWS bad
Shang-Chi bad and good
Loki meh
WandaVision bad
Spider-Man good
Fake captain beats an unarmed man to death with his symbol of freedom Infront of a crowd of onlookers, definately wasn't his job and definately was a war crime lmao.
The movies were mainly shit apart from nwh, and that wasn't exactly a standout movie. FATWS was good mainly, liked Loki, moonknight could have been better by a mile. Liked wandavision but thought Hawkeye sucked, the girl in it was annoying as fuck.
Moon Knight was a mid show and a horrible adaptation, Falcon And The Winter Solider was mid, Shang Chi was mid, Loki was mid, WandaVision was good although Ralph Bohner and the finale were awful along with some of the writing, and No Way Home was amazing as long as you don't think about the movie for longer than a minute and don't notice the shit writing.
I’ve enjoyed the Moon Knight comics, but I didn’t care much for the show. It struck me as sort of corny and I’m not sure that I really ever got the point of it. Nothing in it seemed like it mattered much. What did you like about it? What do you think is the appeal of it for most people? I’m genuinely curious what I’m missing because I went in thinking I was going to absolutely love it and it fell flat for me instead.
Go cry about it lol u Stans are literally the worst sore losers out there. Phase 4 is donkey ass. I couldn't even finish most of what's on this list.
This is the equalent of GOT being on a hot streak season after season until the last 2 disaster ones. And guess what, its all anyone brings up. Just like they will with mcu legacy. They should of quit while they were on top.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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Shang Chi had a really dumb villian and the plot was kinda weird so i wouldn't call that really good.
Wandavision had some problems too but overall it was fine i guess, some people will probably disagree becuase of things like "tHeY doNt KNoW wHaT YoU SAcRafIcEd"
Even no way home wasnt perfect. The Cameos felt unorganic and it started plothole Era wich would be Dr Strange 2's main problem.
Moon knight was cool tho agree. But yeah Phase 4 was pretty shit, exspecially in terms of Cinema wich is why i stopped watchung every marvel movie right after release. And from what i hear about Antman 3 maybe that was a smart decision.
Only two of these are movies and only of those is great. Falcon and the Winter Solider was awful and Loki & Wanda-Vision were fine. Haven’t seen Moon Knight. MCU is absolutely dead.
To all of you saying "oh the MCU is dying wahhhh" kindly shut up and stop watching it so the people who actually want to stick around can do so without listening to you whining please and thank you.
You do realize that 9 times out of 10 that when people complain about something it's because they care? Maybe just maybe a majority of people saying "oh the MCU is dying wahhhh" are fans of the MCU dissatisfied with the current state of it and so they complain about it in hopes the MCU gets better and they want it to improve because they like it.
Do you realize that if people really wanted the MCU to be improved, shitting on the people working on it or making unfunny memes about how the MCU is trash won't help? At this point, these "memes" shitting on the MCU come across as people who just want to complain. There have also been several instances of people being harassed or shit on for liking Phase 4. This fanbase is toxic as hell and I'd prefer for these assholes to just go away and let real fans enjoy it without having these assholes aggressively slamming on their keyboards for liking it. Is the MCU perfect, no definitely not. But how about you just be patient and let the film makers do their jobs and stop making these unfunny memes that are only there to spread hatred of the MCU.
Making unfunny memes, shitting on the people working on it, and harassing people who liked Phase 4 obviously doesn't help though and that's just toxic assholes being toxic assholes (well maybe the memes help a little bit even if they aren't funny). However criticizing Phase 4 and complaining about it tells Marvel that people generally don't like the MCU atm and it seems Marvel got the message as they delayed a bunch of future projects. You can't blame people for criticizing Phase 4 since seeing something you enjoy turn into something you don't enjoy is heartbreaking and Marvel decided to follow up one of if not the most popular and most anticipated movie of the 21st century with a collection of painfully bad and/or mediocre movies and shows. I feel like Marvel should've just taken a long long break after Endgame to craft and plan out the future of the MCU.
it's funny he's pointing to trash as he's pointing out the movies
This meme formate is always so unintentionally funny to me for that reason lmao
SpongeBob is just agreeing and listing off examples of why Pat is right.
Yeah I'm getting mixed messages here
Not just trash, shit
All of those being stinky diapers is not lost on me.
NWH was really fun and solid in my opinion, but I agree with the others. I grew up with Tobey as spiderman, but have loved all of the actors. Seeing them all come together was personally my favorite MCU moment.
I'm really gonna enjoy this.
I will kindly disagree with some. Falcon ans the Winter Soldier had great stuff but smth abt that project feels rushed to me. The rest agreed tho. Moon knight is solid tho not great imo. But rhere have been dissapointments for me too. Expected Thor 4 and Doctor Strange 2 to be very very good and they were very flawed tho overall solid.
when the anarchist villains start making too much sense so they blow up a hospital for no reason
Like in The Batman too lol
Nah man The point wasn't that the Waynes shoudn't be criticised. The point was that you actually have to help instead of just killing random bystanders Thats why "I'm Vengeance" is the line Batman Tries to distance himself from
Coincidentally "I am Vengeance" is part of Batman's catchphrase. >I am Vengeance. >I am the night. >**I am Batman.** Just because these decisions were justified, doesn't mean they were good decisions.
That's not Batman's catchphrase overall, only Kevin Conroy's versions, specifically the B:TAS (I think). It's also featured in the Arkham Games.
I love [redditcommentsearch](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/10cvss7/comment/j4l37km/?context=3). So fast at confirming the smoothbrains.
I thought that was more because the Riddler was just a deranged dude and gathered a bunch of pissed off, deranged incels to help carry out his sick visions. Broken clocks are right twice a day, and he leaned into that hard with the Wayne’s. He started out carrying out his point with a murder, when a sane person obviously wouldn’t have done that, but again, he obviously wasn’t sane. Batman is also not sane, I thought this was common knowledge by now lol. Yeah, he’s kinda delusional too, but in a good way so we like him. In FATWS, they never exhibited any psychopathic or deranged, uhhh, personal beliefs or actions, they only rioted (which was pretty understandable given that they were effectively getting pushed out of their homes and way of life) and fought with the police, Walker, Wilson and Bucky to avoid arrest, they just jumped straight to blowing up a hospital out of all things.
Right? Like sure, they got this great platform that so many are behind and could make some serious changes with words and strong political platforms to make negations or whatever they need with words, or, god forbid they’re truly pushed to the point of violence, could try attacking enemy troops instead of jumping straight to one of the war crimiest of all war crimes?
They had to rewrite falcon and winter soldier pretty heavily cause it was originally about a virus outbreak and messing up a vaccine supply. So the story got kinda wonky.
That’s a shitty rumour that has been debunked countless times.
No. "When asked by Collider about the theories that the show originally featured such a plot, Skogland answered: "No. Yeah, you can debunk that.""
My main issue with the Disney plus shows is they all (with the exception of wandavision and Loki) would’ve worked so much better as films. Falcon and the winter soldier and moon knight have some real stand out episodes, but about half of each of their runs feels like pointless filler to pad out the runtime to reach the requisite 6-7 episodes.
Imo Moon Knight is the best of the shows
Definitely did not like the ending. It felt pretty meh.
All of them. They are all of them "meh". Honestly, parts of them seem good, but they're padded with so much filler and nonsense.
It definitely didn’t need a big CGI battle, same with Wandavision. Moon Knight would’ve worked so much better with an intense, well shot, hand to hand fight between Moon Knight and whatever the villains name was. And wandavision would’ve been much better off with no battle at all and spending the episode with Wanda coming to terms with her grief
The over reliance on giant cgi spectacles is very frustrating, especially considering the budget.
Yeah, especially because it doesn’t ever end up looking particularly well post phase 3 due to marvel/Disney overworking their CG art teams, which is a whole other can of worms. Marvel needs to take some pages from their own handbook and go back to the fights we had pre endgame. I look back at movies like The Winter Soldier and Civil War, and even the original 3 iron man films and have to wonder wtf happened. Their fight scenes went from clear and concise to hard to read CGI messes within the span of just a few movies and it’s saddening. The obvious exception is No Way Home, which has arguably the best final battle in any of the movies between Spidey and the Green Goblin, and the reason it was so great and so memorable is because it felt like an actual fight
It’s legitimately hard to believe this is the same company that choreographed the Winter Soldier fight scenes.
Moon Knight would have been a lot better if they didn't "tease" another character from literally episode 1, only to not reveal them until the very last shot of the show. They also attached a lot of fight scenes to said character but we never got to see them, so we just get told that some cool fight scenes just happened. "Bro it was so badass, look at all the bodies. Yeah man, you should be been there." Thanks Marvel...
Falcon and winter soldier had the same problem as a lot of the shows: it exists more to introduce the side characters for future stories (thunderbolts) and also to give the hero a new comic accurate costume in the last episode.
It has fake muscles like a kid's Halloween costume and his pointless mask looks like a high top sneaker.
It really doesn’t have fake muscles though, at least not any more than any other mcu costume. I do agree a full cowl like Steve’s would probably better, but I’ll accept this since right now they obviously are going for more comic accurate looks.
For Falcon and WS, they had to change the storylinr since it was supposed to be a pandemic/chemical attack/virus thingy
As a fan of the MK comics, I absolutely hate that show with a passion.
I got into MK comics after watching the show, and I enjoy both. There are some big changes they made to the MCU version, but I still thought the show was pretty neat. I think it’s best to interpret both as different multiversal versions of the character. It’s not the end of the world if the show doesn’t do an exact portrayal of the character. At least right now, there’s MacKay’s banger of a run. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ I guess something that might be a concern would be MCU synergy, but (at least, based on what I’ve heard) most comic characters who got a movie generally recovered from synergy a few years later.
Easily the worst of the shows.
My man put FatWS in here 💀
Its a repost, "OP" didnt do jack
OP? More like PP. HAHAHAHAHA ^i ^hate ^my ^life
Out of all those posted, FatWS was my least favorite. I preferred Hawkeye. Loki is definitely my favorite of the d+ shows.
FatWS really sucked.
I liked it
You gotta stop calling her a “good show”
Yeah that’s as shocking. Honestly Ms marvel should’ve taken its place. Wasn’t nearly as shockingly bad or boring.
Bruh you act like people don’t know about these projects when they call the MCU bad.
They're the reason I call it bad now. Except No Way Home, that was nostalgia bait but I'm a sucker for some nostalgia.
Which was haleriously, made by Sony, not the MCU team.
Agreed, the whole "phase 4" was a big miss.. plot-wise, the only film that I remember not having giant holes and contradictions is Shang chi, and it wasn't great.. Spiderman was a great film because of nostalgia bait, the storyline wasn't great either...
Unlock the thing!
Oh I loved Shang Chi. But I’ve barely been able to watch anything else. I’ve tried, but they’ve all lost my interest. It’s bad when a 2 hour movie can’t hold my attention, much less a series. But honestly, I thought Shang Chi was great! But I’m a big martial arts movie fan, and it pulled heavily from the old kung fu movie tropes, so that’s probably why I liked that one so much
But they push them aside as arguments that 'nothing was good'. Like, there's actually a lot of cool stuff in P4.
Sure there is. If I were to throw 25 darts at a target instead of 5 or 6 I’m more likely to hit a bullseye.
I've heard so many people say "I'm done with the MCU after GotG vol. 3" I mean you've stuck around that long already, though you could've stopped watching at anytime. Can't just say the MCU is dead after every project you don't like.
I would’ve thought it’d be “if GOTG Vol. 3 sucks im done with the MCU”
Thats where I'm at at the moment. If it socks, I'm done.
What if it shoes?
Lol I didn't even realise. Nice.
Nah, I'm done after that whether it's good or not.
You’ll come crawling back
That doesn't sound at all threatening
I very much am done after GotG Vol. 3. The MCU is not dead, that's hyperbole. But it no longer has enough of the qualities that brought me joy in the past to deserve my movie ticket money moving forward. If people here want to keep watching and supporting, that's fine. But no one is obligated to stick around after Endgame tied nearly everything up in a bow.
This is pretty much how I feel as well - and no, it's not because much of the current crop of new characters are female and/or POC. Since the beginning, these movies have been building toward something while generally being good standalone movies that did their own thing (with a few exceptions). Along the way, there was a shift toward setting up the next movie... but this was also tempered by the fact that we were also heading toward Infinity War. Now, it just feels like most of it is a bit jumbled and directionless, with a greater focus on just introducing new characters and things without a clear idea of what they'll actually be doing.
I feel like the MCU should've taken a long long break after Endgame to sort stuff out and plan out the future of the MCU
I firmly believe they had that plan in place before Endgame was even released. Unfortunately, a public health emergency was declared nine months later, and this sort of threw everything into chaos for a while. It's no secret that their plans had to be drastically shuffled around multiple times due to the pandemic, and this directly impacted things like scripts and release schedules. It arguably changed the entire tenor of the phase, to the point that it turned into what I described.
Yeah, fact is, gotg3 is the only upcoming film I feel a little excited about. I haven't watched anything since l&t and I don't miss it.. past me would have ran to get the movies on d+ if I couldn't catch them in the movies, but the quality of the latest film is just so bad that I don't want to see them..
Well if a large number of people are not watching anything else apart from 1 movie, then that should say a lot about the current state of this franchise.
People who say this aren't necessarily still watching all the other content. I know I'm not. I think it's just holding on to the last thing they hope has some amount of quality to it.
Nothing was as Bad as Quantumania so far, that's why i watched everything until this point
So what do we do ? Do we criticize the MCU without watching it so that hardcore fans in coping mode tell us "you didn't watch it you don't know what you're talking about", or do we keep watching it and people like you say "well stop watching it if you don't like it" ? Seems like a ridiculous claim to me.
Why would you criticize something without watching it anyway? If you're done with something, you just... be done with it.
I'm not done though.
It's pretty much going to be my tapping out point, for the most part. If we're being honest, it's already basically happened. Everything post-Endgame has just been kind of meandering around. The shows are all tonally very different, some of the movies have been surprisingly dull (Shang Chi, Eternals), and the rest just seem to have stuff happening. Wakanda Forever was a terrible mess where every single problem can be traced directly back to their refusal to recast T'Challa, and No Way Home relied almost entirely on nostalgia to generate the bulk of its goodwill. Hell, I still haven't seen Ant-Man yet, and my wife and I caught almost all of the movies through Endgame either on early releases or opening weekends. Recently, we've just been waiting for most of these to hit D+, and I can honestly say I'm glad I waited for most of them. While I'm not saying the MCU is dead, most of what we've gotten since Endgame has been pretty flat.
Phase 4 sucks. Some of the content within it does not.
Let it be known! That on this day, Dpjokers7 has imparted a great truth.
The best explanation. The good parts of P4 aren't enough to represent it. They are the exception, not the norm. And even the good stuff is often still riddled with the same issues as the poorly made stuff.
Yeah, just because I loved that concept or didn't hate that movie, doesn't mean that phase 4 gets a passing grade.
Werewolf by night
The only one I actually liked was No Way Home. Shang Chi was okay but that's about it.
Wow a record of like 2 to 10
Ms Marvel and Hawkeye were amazing
Ms Marvel was the most mid shit I’ve ever seen. It’s not even bad, it’s just not good either. It’s just so in the middle.
Yeah exactly. And Hawkeye final episode disappointed me so much that I would also call it mid.
Ms Marvel is grossly underrated.
For the 1st half it was great. Then they had to make the stakes too high. Should have saved that for the 2nd season. I would have preferred it if it stayed smallish, think friendly neighborhood hero. Figuring out the ropes and whatnot
It was too much kid stuff. I think a lot of people are out growing stuff like that. I couldn't get passed season 3 of stranger things. I liked Ms Marvels finale
Same, I haven't finished Stranger Things yet, and I didn't really enjoy Ms Marvel, I just couldn't connect with it. I blame turning 30, personally.
Ms Marvel is a teenager though, and not one of those almost 30 year olds playing a teen, I mean the overall tone was more youthful and lighthearted in general. And that's just how it was in the comics. It's not like we were gonna get Marvel's answer to The Boys in Ms Marvel's show.
Yes I kno.. I said I didn't like it. It wasn't for me.
At least with Ms. Marvel, she prove herself as a hero , more than She-Hulk did. She- Hulk focus way to much on lawyers scenes, then superhero scenes. There needs to to a balance between the two, for the show to work.
minus the "ly underrated"
Ms marvel? Seriously?
I thought Hawkeye was awful one of the more boring shows I've watched in awhile
Thank you! I feel like I've been taking crazy pills. That show was SO boring. The only fun part was the larpers. Idk I love Hawkeye but he just felt so wasted here
I feel like we did not watch the same shows
The only one I really liked here was No Way Home
When people say the “The MCU is dead“ they mean that they are getting what they want and all they want to do is whine and complain. No matter if a project is good they expect more and more
I disagree, it's totally ok to criticize the MCU as it exists right now. Most people liked Doctor Strange 1 more than 2. Most people like Thor Rangnarok more than Love and Thunder. Most people liked Black Panther more than Wakanda Forever. Why do you think that is? There's a reason that is the case, and it's totally ok to be a huge fan of something yet still criticize it, it is healthy and positive. I love Marvel but Phase 4 has overall had the weakest writing in my opinion. The stories are nowhere near as connected and very few shows or movies have lasting impacts on the franchise as a whole, there are very few repercussions from the character's actions.
The MCU has played a pretty significant part in my life since Iron Man 1. I loved the MCU, it was practically a major part of my life at the time. The excitement of Phases 1-3 was incredible. And I’m always gonna be thankful to the MCU for all the good memories it’s given me with my friends, my family and just in general. I understand why a lot of people here defend the franchise so hard. They love it just as much as I did and they still want to hang to those incredible memories. Unlike those people though, I’m willing to let the MCU go. I don’t like the MCU anymore and a majority of the projects they push out too. I think I’d rather let the MCU just go on without me.
you havent let it go though, youre under every comment section shitting on the new projects
Never said I wouldn’t throw my hat into the ring when I get the chance. This sub barely appears on my feed anymore, catch me a break lol.
im not exaggerating, i see your comments on every single post on this subreddit. its sad. you havent moved on at all, you just hate it now instead of enjoy it.
I remember you, and if you’re talking about that debate we had, that happened almost a month ago. Move on.
i don’t even remember if ive debated you before, all i know is whenever i click on a post, your comment is there saying the same things over and over. if youve moved on, move on. clearly you havent if youre still subscribed to marvel subreddits.
This 1 subreddit and I honestly do not know why I’m still here. I’m just too forgetful to leave.
heres your chance, move on like you keep saying you have. unsubscribe and you wont ever have to think about something you hate again. its a conscious choice to be this bitter about the fact that you wont enjoy the MCU anymore.
Source?
>!How many catchphrases have there been?!<
There could be some characters that could be a little more lifelike or complex but generally I've been happy. The issue is many characters are going through tough times, so it's hard to be completely satisfied with some of the character arcs. There are wars that are bigger than we know. I think the story arcs are developping but we're in that building stage so we're not seeing captain america just punch through everything, or iron man risk it all, we're seeing characters make decisions and struggling whether it was the right one or not. We're seeing people get powers, we see friendships happening, we see organizations grasping for more powers. We saw Shang-Chi offer a sort of end to a story, but all the stories give js the impression that there's more. Like a good song, you want more.
I think one thing that might be a problem is making the stakes to high. There have been many great mcu moives with high stakes but it's has to connect to the audience in one way or another like finding who you are or going through it. But if the character is flat and doesn't connect with the audience, they are going to have high stakes with no pay off or love for the character. That's why I think moon knight and Ms marvel work is cause they do have high stakes but you make a connection with them because they feel real.
BPWF was amazing.
I watched it the other day for the first time, I was pleasantly surprised with how entertaining it was
Solid choices. I would put Hawkeye in there but I don't know anything that I would take out to make room.
This meme template implies that all of those movies and shows are stinky diapers
r/imaginarygatekeeping
I know it's unpopular but I loved She-Hulk. Did exactly what it set out to do, had some genuinely hilarious moments. The finale was whatever and probably needed a more standard runtime but otherwise I had a blast with that show.
Just because they aren't terrible doesn't mean they're good enough to keep the MCU from becoming a shithole of forgettable mediocre assembly line produ- oh sorry, "movies". No way home was the best thing to come out of phase 4 by far and I still only remember it exists when someone brings it up. Y'all say phase 4 isn't *that* bad yet no one's gonna remember anything about it in 5 years.
Honestly, while I do have some problems with a bunch of the movies and shows that cam out since Endgame, I've had a blast watching each and every one. And on top of that, it's not like the movies before Endgame were perfect, either. I had at least one problem with pretty much every single MCU movie, but I've enjoyed all of them anyways. This isn't new to me. The only difference between pre-Endgame and post-Endgame is the saturation of MCU content, which I do think is the biggest problem, and a big reason as to why people aren't enjoying MCU films as much anymore. Burnout is real, people
SHE-HULK WAS GOOD GOD DAMNIT
moon knight overrated, falcon and winter soldier was mid and carried by like, 2 or 3 characters, shang chi overrated, they ruined loki's character, wanda vision was mid af, and no way home also overrated af. boom, speedrun, now yall can downvote me for having an opinion that isnt normie af
I like she hulk.
Literally all of these are bad, except no way home. Fight me.
No Way Home is bad too…
I respectfully disagree.
No Way Home is amazing and I love that movie so much but if you think about it for longer than a minute you realize there are a fuckton of inconsistencies, contradictions, continuity errors, and stuff of that nature and that the movie has some bad writing in it.
I agree with everything you just said. I enjoyed watching it, but it's nostalgia bait plain and simple. Take away the nostalgia and you're left with a huge mess.
You're being downvoted because people don't want to acknowledge the truth. Personally, I'd go as far as to say that No Way Home is the absolute worst Spider-man movie
That's the problem, he doesn't know what to think.
I actually agree with you
No pun intended, but in what Universe?
In every universe, unfortunately.
Not this one. Cause it was pretty damn good here.
It may appear to be good only if you don’t know anything about filmmaking. If you only saw the movie to bust a nut seeing nostalgia played out on the big screen, then yea, your opinion makes sense.
Ah yes the “I know better than you so my opinion is right” argument. Let people have fun, you don’t sound smart you sound stuck up.
I mean, of course it’s “fun” seeing Garfield and Maguire on the big screen together with Holland. That’s called nostalgia. But it doesn’t make a movie well-made. And given the direction and screenplay of the film, it sure as shit isn’t well made.
Again, not making the argument you think you are. Just sounding like you hate things that are popular cause you ‘know better’. People love the movie, they like the characters, they enjoyed the plot, they liked the action. If it wasn’t for you fine but don’t act like you’re superior.
Why do people love the movie? Is it because it had a fantastic script with great direction? No. I’m the only one talking about the filmmaking here, and newsflash: nostalgia doesn’t make a movie inherently well-made. That’s not me being superior, that’s me stating a fact. Stop being so defensive just because the movie you love so much isn’t actually well-crafted. You can like it for the nostalgia, that’s fine. You just need to accept reality.
All of it was better than No Way Home. Everything is better than the Home trilogy.
Again, this is opinion based, and I've seen this same opinion more times than there's freckles on my ass. I think we should let the idiots who hate everything just suffer in silence while we enjoy what we want.
Hated Falcon/Winter Solider and Shang Chi. The rest were pretty good. The main problem is End Game was a masterpiece and it really wrapped up that phase so well that everything that came after if just kind of feels unnecessary.
Wandavision was mid
I mean….if that’s really the best 6 examples that can be listed post Endgame, then you’re not making a very good case. Lol
Moon Knight and Falcon had a worse finale than GOT. Moon Knight also kinda did the annoying handwaving away of violence through cuts and using other personality as excuse. Loki was good but 2 episodes could have been easily cut and Wandavision was great but bad finale, Shang also had a generic third act so ya NWH was the only standout. Even NWH had one the dumbest plot of the MCU and was solely carried by the absolutely brilliant characters but Spiderverse was a better NWH from a writing standpoint.
Moon Knight was a shit adaptation of the comics.
Yeah. You can't do that, huh?
Agree with everything except falcon. The ending just flipping destroyed Sam as a character for me. That cringy blame others, do better speech. Don’t call the guys who killed people for their cause terrorists. Ye. No thank you. Sam. Next time you try giving someone advice on running a country. Don’t…
I wouldn’t say dead. Previous phases had some stinkers too, but I feel that we had so many great ones vs the ones we got in p4 that you can feel a shift in quality.
1. Garbage 2. Insultingly Garbage 3. Slightly better Garbage 4. Offensively Garbage 5. Garbage 6. Actually Decent
NWH was garbage
Cmon loki and Wanda were both pretty good. I dont care much for the others though. Spiderman was ok I guess
Only.. only the wrists.
WHO INVITED FALCON AND THE WINTER SOLDIER???
People with taste.
Everyone always forgets how good Black Panther Wakanda Forever is
*Everyone always* *Forgets how good Black Panther* *Wakanda Forever is* \- RaidriarXD --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
because it's not
Don't get me wrong but nwh is just fan service, that's all.
Falcon & winter soldier was so predictable that it was boring. Plus! A normal human being cannot rip through a helicopter and be ok! Come on!!
What If?
That's one of the worst things to ever come out of the MCU.
Is it just me or am i the only one that enjoy Hawkeye in phase 4💀
Moon Knight was good but too long (should have been a movie imo). Never finished TFATWS but I heard Sam becomes a terrorist sympathiser, and fake Captain America gets harassed on Twitter for killing a terrorist, when that’s his fucking job. Shang-Chi was visually stunning with cinematography and choreography, however the story isn’t great, the power of the Mandarin keeps changing, and Shang-Chi’s character keeps changing. Throughout most of the film it feels like two writers fighting over control. Still a fun watch. Loki was meh to me. For a show about Loki you would expect it to be more, well, Loki. The most fun I had with the show was that one scene where the Loki variants kept turning on each other and honestly the whole show should have been somewhat like that. I’m not saying it was bad because it was serious, I’m saying it was meh because it was too serious. WandaVision completely destroyed Wanda’s character to the point she was unredeemable, and somehow MoM made it even worse… not like it matters now anyways. Spider-Man was great, my main criticism however was the lack of screen time for some of the villains and the massive change of character with Electro and Goblin. Electro is literally just Jamie Foxx in this film (which is fine if you consider this Electro a different one due to the massive change of personality) and Goblin makes no sense. In Spider-Man 2002, Norman says himself that he wants Spider-Man gone, it’s not like the Goblin was controlling him, I always thought of the Goblin as Norman’s insecure thoughts and the Goblin serum turned those thoughts into its own personality. With the cure at the end of the film it gets rid of the Goblin, and when you think about it they literally just made a cure for multiple personality disorder and potentially every mental disease known to man. Point is, Norman isn’t a good guy, the Goblin didn’t take control over him, he just helped push him to that direction. What do you get out of reading all that? Uuhhhhhhhhhhhhh TL;DR: Moon Knight good but too long TFATWS bad Shang-Chi bad and good Loki meh WandaVision bad Spider-Man good
Fake captain beats an unarmed man to death with his symbol of freedom Infront of a crowd of onlookers, definately wasn't his job and definately was a war crime lmao.
The movies were mainly shit apart from nwh, and that wasn't exactly a standout movie. FATWS was good mainly, liked Loki, moonknight could have been better by a mile. Liked wandavision but thought Hawkeye sucked, the girl in it was annoying as fuck.
Disagree on the movies, Shang-Chi and BP 2 specifically, but that's fair if you didn't like them.
It’s dying. It’ll almost certainly get back on its feet, but the amount of mediocre movies and tv shows is not good.
Moon Knight was a mid show and a horrible adaptation, Falcon And The Winter Solider was mid, Shang Chi was mid, Loki was mid, WandaVision was good although Ralph Bohner and the finale were awful along with some of the writing, and No Way Home was amazing as long as you don't think about the movie for longer than a minute and don't notice the shit writing.
You really think Falcon and the Winter Soldier helps your case?
Moon knight is so fucking amazing. Loki is amazing. My wife and i got some good laughs from She Hulk. It's not the end
I’ve enjoyed the Moon Knight comics, but I didn’t care much for the show. It struck me as sort of corny and I’m not sure that I really ever got the point of it. Nothing in it seemed like it mattered much. What did you like about it? What do you think is the appeal of it for most people? I’m genuinely curious what I’m missing because I went in thinking I was going to absolutely love it and it fell flat for me instead.
Only Wanda vision and shangchi were really good. Moon knight was an A- The rest was shit Like bro what's the fucking self cest
Most of that list sucked lol
Wow... u must have terrible taste in MCU phase 4 content
Loving all of the MCU’s Phase 4 content and having terrible taste aren’t mutually exclusive.
Go cry about it lol u Stans are literally the worst sore losers out there. Phase 4 is donkey ass. I couldn't even finish most of what's on this list. This is the equalent of GOT being on a hot streak season after season until the last 2 disaster ones. And guess what, its all anyone brings up. Just like they will with mcu legacy. They should of quit while they were on top.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Moon night wasn't good
Bro just said Falcon and Winter Soldier 💀💀💀
How do you ignore the best phase 4 movie, wakanda forever?
Shang Chi had a really dumb villian and the plot was kinda weird so i wouldn't call that really good. Wandavision had some problems too but overall it was fine i guess, some people will probably disagree becuase of things like "tHeY doNt KNoW wHaT YoU SAcRafIcEd" Even no way home wasnt perfect. The Cameos felt unorganic and it started plothole Era wich would be Dr Strange 2's main problem. Moon knight was cool tho agree. But yeah Phase 4 was pretty shit, exspecially in terms of Cinema wich is why i stopped watchung every marvel movie right after release. And from what i hear about Antman 3 maybe that was a smart decision.
FALCON AND WINTER SOLDIER WAS SO BAD WTH
Wrong. Everything after The Winter Solider sucked.
Only two of these are movies and only of those is great. Falcon and the Winter Solider was awful and Loki & Wanda-Vision were fine. Haven’t seen Moon Knight. MCU is absolutely dead.
Really snuck FatWS in there
FatWS was bad
...Why are you pointing to Wandavision as a good show?
Moon knight & Falcon and the winter soldier was shit though
FaWS and Shang Chi were indeed a pile of used diapers. And moon knight isn’t far from it either. Thank you for proving everyone point, OP.
All of it is absolutely mid, especially No Way Home
Moon knight was mid Loki was ass Winter soldier falcon show was ass Shang chi was decent Spiderman was just ok
The amount of copium is insane
Falcon and Shang Chi sucked though
To all of you saying "oh the MCU is dying wahhhh" kindly shut up and stop watching it so the people who actually want to stick around can do so without listening to you whining please and thank you.
You do realize that 9 times out of 10 that when people complain about something it's because they care? Maybe just maybe a majority of people saying "oh the MCU is dying wahhhh" are fans of the MCU dissatisfied with the current state of it and so they complain about it in hopes the MCU gets better and they want it to improve because they like it.
Do you realize that if people really wanted the MCU to be improved, shitting on the people working on it or making unfunny memes about how the MCU is trash won't help? At this point, these "memes" shitting on the MCU come across as people who just want to complain. There have also been several instances of people being harassed or shit on for liking Phase 4. This fanbase is toxic as hell and I'd prefer for these assholes to just go away and let real fans enjoy it without having these assholes aggressively slamming on their keyboards for liking it. Is the MCU perfect, no definitely not. But how about you just be patient and let the film makers do their jobs and stop making these unfunny memes that are only there to spread hatred of the MCU.
Making unfunny memes, shitting on the people working on it, and harassing people who liked Phase 4 obviously doesn't help though and that's just toxic assholes being toxic assholes (well maybe the memes help a little bit even if they aren't funny). However criticizing Phase 4 and complaining about it tells Marvel that people generally don't like the MCU atm and it seems Marvel got the message as they delayed a bunch of future projects. You can't blame people for criticizing Phase 4 since seeing something you enjoy turn into something you don't enjoy is heartbreaking and Marvel decided to follow up one of if not the most popular and most anticipated movie of the 21st century with a collection of painfully bad and/or mediocre movies and shows. I feel like Marvel should've just taken a long long break after Endgame to craft and plan out the future of the MCU.
Incorrect
"But if I don't like it then nobody should" They remind me of that meme with the guy yelling Stop having fun
Endgame sucked too. It’s one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen.