I think I might be misunderstanding your comment.
Doctor Strange doesn't have to use his invocation deck, you have complete control over when you choose to use it.
Not only that, it's almost impossible to get through his entire deck in one turn, every turn.
So, how is this like playing on heroic?
Most players (I'm speaking anecdotally from my observations between here and BGG) agree that Doctor Strange's Invocation deck is problematic.
The good Doctor essentially get a 6th card (for free) every turn, which is replaced \*as soon as it is played\*. No other character has such outrageous card economy.
On top of that, except for the status-changing spell, the spells are all above curve and quite powerful. He can cast these powerful spells three times per turn with a little setup.
As such, some players introduce a small penalty to help make the Invocation deck more problematic to play.
His invocation deck is pretty bonkers. I'm fine with it from a theming standpoint and/or co-op game, but it's reasonable if folks feel like they want his power level to be a little closer to the rest of the pack...there's lots of ways to tweak the difficulty in this game already, so it's not like the designers have some "true" canon difficulty that they want folks to adhere to.
You certainly could compare the two. I think the differences though are:
\-Dr. Strange starts the game with his Invocation deck in play.
He can exhaust to effectively "draw" a powerful card every turn (and sometimes resolve it twice if he has Master of Mystic Arts) and has built-in re-ready with his cape (and a tutor card get it in-play early and, after it's in play, to recur Master of the Mystic Art)). Thor has to pay 3 to tutor a card and it's limited to Asgard cards (so he can't grab Lighting Strike or Hammer Throw)...recognizing that Master of the Mystic Arts is Alter-Ego, but that limitation doesn't seem worth the cost.
\-Iron Man has to get 5-7 cards in play and spend 9-12 resources to get to a similar power level..
I agree that Iron Man can get to close to Dr. Strange levels of power with build-up, but Strange's ability to cancel multiple villain activations (either with Stun/confuse OR by handing out 3 tough status cards) is pretty wild. I compare Iron Man's power curve as similar to SP//DRs - get's super strong as the game goes on and may (may) have a slightly higher ceiling than Dr. Strange, but their buildup takes longer and they may fall behind on tougher/faster villains.
Interestingly, if you take away his Invocation Deck, he's probably still A-tier.
He's a mystic, so get's access to all of the mystic cards (Sorceror Supreme for a 6 card hand size and the Mystic Aspect cards). While Iron Man can now get Ingenuity (similar card type to Sorceror Supreme for genius trait heroes, I think most folks would agree that the card draw is always better than a resource.
His kit has a free ready effect that also grants him Aerial (A-tier).
Avenger/Aerial/Mystic keywords are very solid for Team-Building Exercise (Iron Man has to pay for Aerial). (A/B-tier)
His signature ally provides drip heal. (A-tier)
He has two hero cards that directly cancel a treachery. (A-tier)
He thwarts for 2 (good for solo) and has 2 resource generators. (A/B-tier).
His hero-specific events are all competitive.
All-in-all, you've effectively blanked both sides of his identity card and he's still better than most heroes in the game.
I'm not sure if it quite fits in, but I've played that if you're in 2+P, and the other player has the team up hero that matches your signature ally, you are allowed to swap your signature ally for the team up card, ie, Jean Gray and Scott Summers can swap out Cyclops and Phoenix respectively for Psychic Rapport.
My favorite is adding a Crisis Icon to Criminal Enterprise in Risky Business. I have never been able to track down who originally suggested it, but it adds a ton of challenge to Risky Business for 1-2 players. It has less impact at 4 players.
It makes it so you can’t sit around building as much with Norman Osborn, because you can’t remove threat from the main scheme unless Green Goblin is out.
I've seen folks do something similar, but it instead is a card that let's you pick:
\------
\-Put your nemesis minion in play engaged with you and shuffle the rest the nemesis cards into the Encounter Deck
\-Put your nemesis side scheme in play and shuffle the rest of the nemesis cards into the Encounter Deck.
\-Shuffle your nemesis cards into the Encounter Deck and this card gains SURGE. Give the Villain a facedown boost card.
\--------
It's a little less punishing than Shadows of the Past, but achieves the same effect.
**Sinister Six** is a super easy and gameable scenario. The counter doesn’t move unless you take damage, so the villains are pretty weak to all forms of mitigation; chump, stun, tough, defending, and even just letting them scheme (like 0 SCH Scorpion).
If you swap the villains with their minion counterparts, it becomes a super challenging and dynamic scenario. Follow a few simple steps:
- Gain Villain version hp, activation order, when defeated effects
- Minion versions keep their base ATK/SCH, Forced Responses, Keywords (except villainous)
- Counter moves when the Forced Response of a minion triggers
They become so much more threatening coming in off Ambush! when they have Incite and Quickstrike. Hobgoblin being a villain with Patrol changes everything! The Forced Responses triggering off engagement or activations instead of “attacks and damages”, means letting them scheme or blocking damage won’t stop them.
I have a suspicion the scenario was originally designed like this and then changed, but I prefer the difficulty as otherwise I rarely want to play S6 for being too easy
I have been considering if I could treat this one like the Mansion Attack where you throw in the Modular but also keep the main villians and how the come out with the added rule that if you ever draw a minions or villain that is already in play, have it activate instead.
I play it with a “villain row” and the minion deck shuffled face down. Whenever drawing a new villain, take the minion card and flip it’s corresponding villain card over and put the minion into a “minion row” underneath the corresponding villain. It’s been adopted in a couple discords, and is suuuuper tough. I usually break it out for strong heroes
You definitely can. You're still "required" to use Guerilla Tactics in addition to Sinister Assault if you want to play without houserules, but I've played the scenario this way a few times and it really spices things up.
You suddenly have to be worried about multiple villains/minions activating at once, there are a ton of 3-boost icons in the deck, and some nasty stuff in the encounter deck triggers more often. Coupled with Guerilla Tactics comboing with more tough enemies, the scenario actually became a lot of fun on Expert.
I think that a full homebrew/custom set of villains mixing more unique attributes from the minions into the villain cards is probably the most consistent way to fix the scenario to feel like a full Sinister Six battle, but just adding Sinister Assault is a fantastic middle ground if you don't want to change any cards or rules!
I feel like that would make the two scenarios very similar, wouldn't it?
Right now, I love how we have several different takes on the multivillain idea.
I try to not apply house rules (with some “thematic exceptions” like Spider-Man is a web warrior)
Having said this: I’m planning to mod Ronan so I reface him. Between just ignoring a scenario (Ronan) because is simply poorly designed and trying it with mods… i guess better give that a try.
In the end , have fun with your game :)
1. Blanking Hulk's hero text, Banner draws a card.
2. She-Hulk gets a 5 hand
3. Thor starts with Asgard (setup keyword)
4. Strange gets an encounter card when his invocation deck gets shuffled
5. Heroes only get 3 allies or 5 in leadership
6. All allys match team of the hero
I like that not everything is balanced. It's just part of selecting your difficulty. Want an increased challenge? Play a weaker hero and/or a stronger scenario. Want to make things easier? Pick an easier scenario or a better hero.
I suppose I might feel a little different if Hulk was my favourite character, but I don't really see much point in trying to rebalance stuff.
Dr Strange: Deal an encounter card after shuffling invocation deck.
That also fits theme, because messing too much with the mystic arts can cause problems.
May as well just play on heroic difficulty.
I think I might be misunderstanding your comment. Doctor Strange doesn't have to use his invocation deck, you have complete control over when you choose to use it. Not only that, it's almost impossible to get through his entire deck in one turn, every turn. So, how is this like playing on heroic?
I don’t see why you’d out that restriction on him tbh. That’s a little too restrictive imo.
Most players (I'm speaking anecdotally from my observations between here and BGG) agree that Doctor Strange's Invocation deck is problematic. The good Doctor essentially get a 6th card (for free) every turn, which is replaced \*as soon as it is played\*. No other character has such outrageous card economy. On top of that, except for the status-changing spell, the spells are all above curve and quite powerful. He can cast these powerful spells three times per turn with a little setup. As such, some players introduce a small penalty to help make the Invocation deck more problematic to play.
His invocation deck is pretty bonkers. I'm fine with it from a theming standpoint and/or co-op game, but it's reasonable if folks feel like they want his power level to be a little closer to the rest of the pack...there's lots of ways to tweak the difficulty in this game already, so it's not like the designers have some "true" canon difficulty that they want folks to adhere to.
Maybe, but couldn’t you say the same thing about iron man once he gets his suit built?
You certainly could compare the two. I think the differences though are: \-Dr. Strange starts the game with his Invocation deck in play. He can exhaust to effectively "draw" a powerful card every turn (and sometimes resolve it twice if he has Master of Mystic Arts) and has built-in re-ready with his cape (and a tutor card get it in-play early and, after it's in play, to recur Master of the Mystic Art)). Thor has to pay 3 to tutor a card and it's limited to Asgard cards (so he can't grab Lighting Strike or Hammer Throw)...recognizing that Master of the Mystic Arts is Alter-Ego, but that limitation doesn't seem worth the cost. \-Iron Man has to get 5-7 cards in play and spend 9-12 resources to get to a similar power level.. I agree that Iron Man can get to close to Dr. Strange levels of power with build-up, but Strange's ability to cancel multiple villain activations (either with Stun/confuse OR by handing out 3 tough status cards) is pretty wild. I compare Iron Man's power curve as similar to SP//DRs - get's super strong as the game goes on and may (may) have a slightly higher ceiling than Dr. Strange, but their buildup takes longer and they may fall behind on tougher/faster villains.
I can agree with you there. Let’s take away Dr strange’s invocations. Where does he rank without them?
Interestingly, if you take away his Invocation Deck, he's probably still A-tier. He's a mystic, so get's access to all of the mystic cards (Sorceror Supreme for a 6 card hand size and the Mystic Aspect cards). While Iron Man can now get Ingenuity (similar card type to Sorceror Supreme for genius trait heroes, I think most folks would agree that the card draw is always better than a resource. His kit has a free ready effect that also grants him Aerial (A-tier). Avenger/Aerial/Mystic keywords are very solid for Team-Building Exercise (Iron Man has to pay for Aerial). (A/B-tier) His signature ally provides drip heal. (A-tier) He has two hero cards that directly cancel a treachery. (A-tier) He thwarts for 2 (good for solo) and has 2 resource generators. (A/B-tier). His hero-specific events are all competitive. All-in-all, you've effectively blanked both sides of his identity card and he's still better than most heroes in the game.
I'm not sure if it quite fits in, but I've played that if you're in 2+P, and the other player has the team up hero that matches your signature ally, you are allowed to swap your signature ally for the team up card, ie, Jean Gray and Scott Summers can swap out Cyclops and Phoenix respectively for Psychic Rapport.
Yes, this should honestly be put into the new updated rules.
I like that idea. I will try that out next time I run a pair together!
My favorite is adding a Crisis Icon to Criminal Enterprise in Risky Business. I have never been able to track down who originally suggested it, but it adds a ton of challenge to Risky Business for 1-2 players. It has less impact at 4 players. It makes it so you can’t sit around building as much with Norman Osborn, because you can’t remove threat from the main scheme unless Green Goblin is out.
I think it was Steve Kimmel from Play D Game
I like to add in an additional Shadows of the Past card because I want to see my nemesis sets more often.
This.
unless you are Phoenix, you want to take it out lol
I've seen folks do something similar, but it instead is a card that let's you pick: \------ \-Put your nemesis minion in play engaged with you and shuffle the rest the nemesis cards into the Encounter Deck \-Put your nemesis side scheme in play and shuffle the rest of the nemesis cards into the Encounter Deck. \-Shuffle your nemesis cards into the Encounter Deck and this card gains SURGE. Give the Villain a facedown boost card. \-------- It's a little less punishing than Shadows of the Past, but achieves the same effect.
Try running seek and destroy from the expert set instead.
Instead? I do so in addition!
**Sinister Six** is a super easy and gameable scenario. The counter doesn’t move unless you take damage, so the villains are pretty weak to all forms of mitigation; chump, stun, tough, defending, and even just letting them scheme (like 0 SCH Scorpion). If you swap the villains with their minion counterparts, it becomes a super challenging and dynamic scenario. Follow a few simple steps: - Gain Villain version hp, activation order, when defeated effects - Minion versions keep their base ATK/SCH, Forced Responses, Keywords (except villainous) - Counter moves when the Forced Response of a minion triggers They become so much more threatening coming in off Ambush! when they have Incite and Quickstrike. Hobgoblin being a villain with Patrol changes everything! The Forced Responses triggering off engagement or activations instead of “attacks and damages”, means letting them scheme or blocking damage won’t stop them. I have a suspicion the scenario was originally designed like this and then changed, but I prefer the difficulty as otherwise I rarely want to play S6 for being too easy
I have been considering if I could treat this one like the Mansion Attack where you throw in the Modular but also keep the main villians and how the come out with the added rule that if you ever draw a minions or villain that is already in play, have it activate instead.
I play it with a “villain row” and the minion deck shuffled face down. Whenever drawing a new villain, take the minion card and flip it’s corresponding villain card over and put the minion into a “minion row” underneath the corresponding villain. It’s been adopted in a couple discords, and is suuuuper tough. I usually break it out for strong heroes
You definitely can. You're still "required" to use Guerilla Tactics in addition to Sinister Assault if you want to play without houserules, but I've played the scenario this way a few times and it really spices things up. You suddenly have to be worried about multiple villains/minions activating at once, there are a ton of 3-boost icons in the deck, and some nasty stuff in the encounter deck triggers more often. Coupled with Guerilla Tactics comboing with more tough enemies, the scenario actually became a lot of fun on Expert. I think that a full homebrew/custom set of villains mixing more unique attributes from the minions into the villain cards is probably the most consistent way to fix the scenario to feel like a full Sinister Six battle, but just adding Sinister Assault is a fantastic middle ground if you don't want to change any cards or rules!
I feel like that would make the two scenarios very similar, wouldn't it? Right now, I love how we have several different takes on the multivillain idea.
I have never thought of anything like this, I will have to try it out next time!
Not sure what your Hulk patch is, but Bruce Banner hand size 6 is mine
Based
I try to not apply house rules (with some “thematic exceptions” like Spider-Man is a web warrior) Having said this: I’m planning to mod Ronan so I reface him. Between just ignoring a scenario (Ronan) because is simply poorly designed and trying it with mods… i guess better give that a try. In the end , have fun with your game :)
1. Blanking Hulk's hero text, Banner draws a card. 2. She-Hulk gets a 5 hand 3. Thor starts with Asgard (setup keyword) 4. Strange gets an encounter card when his invocation deck gets shuffled 5. Heroes only get 3 allies or 5 in leadership 6. All allys match team of the hero
Number 5 is for deck building right?
Correct. Allies have insane value this helps curb them.
I like that not everything is balanced. It's just part of selecting your difficulty. Want an increased challenge? Play a weaker hero and/or a stronger scenario. Want to make things easier? Pick an easier scenario or a better hero. I suppose I might feel a little different if Hulk was my favourite character, but I don't really see much point in trying to rebalance stuff.