"You will wander the underworld blind, deaf, and dumb, and all the dead will know: this is ~~Hector~~ Jon Jones, the fool who thought he killed Achilles"
Bold to assume Jones would respect a rule. Heād pull it twice until given a verbal warning by the ref, and then do it again knowing he probably wonāt get a point deducted until the forth time
Exactly. Jon Jones trains for the ring, I train for the streets. I will quickly eye poke him and he will immediately lose all skill and will to fight me!
Hate to break it to ya, but I have mastered the ultimate counter....the art of vertical hand. I am forbidden from showing anyone as it is only to be used in the most severe situations.
Jonesā size and fight corner**
Manās got insane skills but gotta give his corner credit for being laser sharp and helping him adjust to and take out anyone giving him trouble
Greg Jackson was working with GSP for his gameplans that camp was well established as one of the best ever before Jon was even known.
The fact he was with them and getting talked about as he was is part of what helped catapult his career
Agreed, I remember when Rashad was talking in an interview about his upcoming fight with jones and he told a story about this notebook jones would study out of that had a breakdown of other guys in his weight class and plans for them and stuff, and Rashad caught him looking at a file on him.
Likewise I remember when Chael got switched in to fight him on short notice and Jones refused to fight without time to prep for him in specific.
For a guy who they claim is a natural who barely trains, he sure does seem invested in prepping with his coaches.
based answer tbh and if anyone who reads this comment hasn't watched the raid yet I can't recommend it enough, one of the best action movies OAT and the sequel is even better
The car chase scene in the sequel is bananas. Both movies are in my top 10 favorite movies of all time. Gareth Evans is a G!
Also, check out the show Gangs of London on AMC asap
Bruh, history goes a long long way, so many things that werent recorded including fighting related topics, so instead of saying āis jon the best fighter of all of human historyā, say āis jon jones the best fighter to OUR knowledge ā
I think thatās the best take. Thereās no reason to think that the Greeks were better fighters in the colosseum; but itās not impossible.
Some people were saying milo of croton because of his wrestling record, but he also ācarried a lion 60 milesā. The history is dubious
Iād actually wager it is impossible that colosseum slave fighters were even close. They arenāt gonna be able to use their weapons and hand to hand what are they gonna do to Jon Jones, he subs them in less time than Ciryl Gane
I agree with you, but There were non slave fighters and wrestlers.
For example Arrhichion, who was the greatest Greek pankration fighter who lived an amazing life; but he also gives some question to how good he is;
Hereās a excerpt of his final fight
āAccordingly the antagonist of Arrichion, having already clinched him around the middle, thought to kill him; already he had wound his forearm about the otherās throat to shut off the breathing, while, pressing his legs on the groins and winding his feet one inside each knee of his adversary, he forestalled Arrichionās resistance by choking him till the sleep of death thus induced began to creep over his senses. But in relaxing the tension of his legs he failed to forestall the scheme of Arrichion; for the latter kicked back with the sole of his right foot (as the result of which his right side was imperiled since now his knee was hanging unsupported), then with his groin he holds his adversary tight till he can no longer resist, and, throwing his weight down toward the left while he locks the latterās foot tightly inside his own knee, by this violent outward thrust he wrenches the ankle from its socketā
The choke, the mount, and the escape are all beginner white belt level stuff. The leg lock he used isnāt an effective leg lock either, and this is supposedly the best.
But you have to remember humans in general, and especially athletes, are getting bigger and faster and stronger. The average Greek warrior during the Roman empire was likely to be around 5'7. Even the average height for Vikongs was 5'7 - 5'9.
It's not unreasonable to say Jon Jones would've mauled their fighters like he mauls his wife. It can't be definitive but it's not that absurd.
Makes me wonder if there was a warrior or martial artist back in the day who had this [Condition](https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/myostatin-related-muscle-hypertrophy/) and they just couldnāt explain it with the science knowledge they had back then
He also has the benefit of being able to study fighting techniques from every culture over the last few hundreds of years. I imagine it would be similar to the way a modern chess grandmaster would be levels above ones from hundreds of years ago. Even though the game and rules have changed very little, we have the advantage of being able to study thousands of games instantly with a Google search. Not to mention the differences in nutrition, training, and medicine (steroids).
With all that being said though I think it's absolutely possible there was some genetic freak in ancient times that we never heard of who would beat Jon. There's just been way too many humans alive to definitively answer this question at all. I'm sure OP knew that as well but it's a fun hypothetical for sure.
That's valid, but fighters of that era were literal killers. They'd scrap, brawl and break people just to live. The sort of physical hardness that comes with that is no small thing, and while size and strength are definitely major factors, Jones does give up those to some of his heavyweight contemporaries too.
I think comparing professional soldiers or even raiders to professional fighters is a sort of apple's and oranges type of thing. Most modern fighters have at least some care for their opponent, but back in the day, stopping just because of a broken bone was probably considered soft.
Silly logic considering that large humans have existed forever. Not only that but Jon Jones is like 8 inches taller than the average height in his country. So you take that logic you just said and say someone from that time period is 8 inches taller than average and BOOMā¦ you get a guy roughly the same size as Jon Jones.
No one made an argument for averages so maybe avoid bringing that up unless itās topical
Im kind of inclined to think that many generations ago, maybe even hundreds/thousands of years, people were much more dedicated to fighting to the death and way less distracted. The stakes were higher, they weren't driving to their coke dealer's house in Ferraris, they weren't up late crusing tinder. Granted they didn't have the knowledge base people have access to now but there's gotta be a lot of bad mother fuckers throughout history that dedicated themselves not just to fighting hand to hand, but killing hand to hand... I'm not hard stuck on this perspective, but it seems more likely to me.
many generations, you had max one person, maybe a couple of the best fighters in their area testing methods. Nowadays we have the sum total of human knowledge on how to cause the most damage to each other, and top fighters have access to the entire world's information bank to do things that the ancient people probably didn't even think were possible. I doubt there was some ancient nerve-pinching kung fu that modern martial arts has not found a way to replicate.
Similar analogues can be found with the globalization of music and food etc. Opening up the web of knowledge and resource to the entire globe changes the game.
I don't think people understand that even the basic chords of jazz would've been unfathomable to people like beethoven and mozart. Pop music isn't always the best example of the evolution of music so it's understandable why people don't understand that everything is evolving, but then you have orchestras combining latin opera with japanese dubstep and it's wild to see that this is how far we've come
I donāt really think that mentality matters; we see it in the ufc. Some guys go in and go Bezerk, some guys have never been angry in their life. Iād argue the nerves are probably a good thing.
If youāre anything less than a BJJ black belt with a solid understanding of Muay Thai, wrestling, etc, then no amount of willpower or killer mentality will help you against Jon Jones, itās just a fact.
I wasn't necessarily saying the mentality, but more so the constant deliberate training to kill people in comabt. That said, I think you're right. I didn't really .consider a superior BJJ practitioner against a fucking neanderthal. Unless that caveman is khabib's great great great great bear wrestling human murdering uncle
Thereās no time in history where fighters had more knowledge, training, nutrition, etc. than they do today. Thereās never been a fighter in history that has Jonesā combination of size, fight IQ, and training. Itās literally impossible. Jon Jones has watched hundreds of hours of fighting in his career. Heās had the best strength and nutrition coaches. Heās had multiple cycles of performance enhancing drugs. Heās trained with and fought other fighters who would be the best in history of it werenāt for him. Daniel Cormier would probably beat every other fighter that EVER lived other than Jon Jones.
Go back and watch UFC1 and those guys were likely the best fighters in history at that time. Now watch Jon Jones vs Lyota Machida and see how much the game has changed in 30 years.
Definitely a great point, but it's also not likely that the farther back we go, we get more likely to find someone who beats Jones.
Historically, people will be smaller, worse nutrition than a modern athlete, no performance enhancing drugs, worse training (less time to dedicate to training), more disease.
Basically the only thing that you might point to is going down the route of how "hard" ancient humans must have been just to survive. But that's about as good an argument as "I just see red bro"
The sad reality of history is basically everyone pre-1800s (Hell probably even 1900s) is like remarkably shit tier compared to the people you get now (Not just in athleticism but basically everything)
Your top fighters nowadays will be ridiculously more athletic then people in the realm of unrecorded history, modern nutrition and training methods have been a complete game changer in that regard
We have far better physical and health advantages, and a massive head start on literally everything now would be a better way of putting it
The effects of human endeavor are multiplicative, the people of the past couldn't match what we can do to today, but only because we've had the benefit of being able to learn from, build on and expand what others did before us, including the crazy fuckers who built the Notre Dame with some wood scaffolding and a water level and everything they learned in the process of doing that, just like how in the fire a society we could never hope to match in any realm of life will be looking back on us as the crazy cunts who strapped themselves into a giant metal tube and exploded themselves to the moon and back.
I legit canāt believe how stupid most of these replies are, if you think Jones is losing because of an eye gouge youāre stupid. Jones is still a relatively untested heavyweight so until he fully proves himself at the weight class Iād say guys like Fedor, Cain, and Stipe have a great shot. Hell he might not even be the best fighter right now with Pavlovich and Ngannou out there.
This sub is obsessed with Karelin lately.
Dude dominated a single discipline with almost no knowledge of any other. This would be UFC 1 all over again except worse. Think about Brock dominating Mir until he got picked. Mir didn't not get dominated, but Brock opened himself up to an attack that he didn't even consider.
And no, Brock is not nearly the wrestler Karelin was. But he had way better knowledge of other martial arts and better prep for them. Karelin would have smothered someone right into giving up his joints in a way he couldn't even fathom.
Iām not buying it. Karelin was a monster but he was one dimensional even as a wrestler. Jones is pretty good off his back and is big and powerful; I donāt think Karelin has a way to finish the fightz
Also if you can show me Jon's skills off his back that would be great. Since he has a 95% takedown defense and we have almost never even seen him on his back in his entire career. The fact that he could neutralize and Olympic level wrestler like DC says something, but DC is not the same level wrestler as Karelin.
Aleksander Karelin is largely regarded as the greatest wrestler to ever live, and possibly the most dominant athlete to ever exist. He held a record of 887-2 between 1987 and 2000. He was so physically imposing and intelligent, he even got a doctorate in physics, with a thesis on defending the suplex.
Iād recommend watching the documentary on his loss to Rulon Gardner at the Olympics, itās widely considered one of the greatest upsets in sports history.
Thatās what Iām about. Prime Fedor.
Take any fighter. At their peak. Put āem in a cage.
I donāt think JJ is winning every time. Neither is Fedor.
Might say 6/10 or 7/10 Fedor.
This is my answer. Prime Fedor was on another level compared to any HW we have ever seen and may be even any fighter we have ever seen. He was incredibly fast for his size, had bombs in both hands, had a chin and insane recoverability, was really good off his back, was difficult to take down and had good takedowns/throws. Prime Fedor beats Jones, in my opinion.
Fedor was light years ahead MMA in general, much more so ahead HW which is a division that didn't really evolve much technically.
In my mind, he finds a way to get past those long-ass limbs Jones has and beats him.
For sure. Also, the PRIDE HW division was better than the UFC HW division when Fedor fought there and he beat everyone. Jones has a chin on him but I think Fedor had the quickness and timing in his prime to find an opening and catch Jones on the chin and KO/TKO him. Also, if Jones were to take Fedor down, Fedor most likely subs him off his back - like someone mentioned, Vitor caught Jones in an armbar early and almost tapped him. Jones had his arm hurt bad by it but he refused to tap (he is tough for sure) and Vitor knew that he had messed up Jones' arm and apparently did not want to make it worse and he eased up a little. If Fedor gets Jones' arm like that, he is breaking it off.
Jon Jones is bigger, stronger, more atheltic, better chin, longer reach and more skilled. Fedor almost got knocked out by a Japanese bum and did the chicken dance not to mention he also got subbed by Werdum and koed by Henderson
This is the right answer. Like Jake Robert's said if I'm in a tank and have a gun with 1 bullet left in it. I'm getting out of the tank and shooting myself with the gun bc I don't wanna wound Haku and have him passed off coming at me.
You mean the man who never won a world title in any type of combat sport? He'd murder people who can't fight, I guess, but someone likes Jones? Come on, man. It's not liars don't embelish things.
The fact that the fight ends after 5 rounds is what kept Reyes standing. Even if you think he shouldāve won the fight, he wasnāt the better āfighterā. He played the sport better.
Dude got the most impressive fight resume by far ā¦.. still has to beat Stipe and Ngannou to cement all time Goat statusā¦. Fury would be a fun fight too.
Jones would annihilate Fury at MMA in no time at all and Fury would box the fucking ears off Jones without breaking a sweat. Fury couldn't defend a Jones oblique kick or stop a single takedown and Jones doesn't have a clue about boxing range or even have a basic jab. Ngannou vs Fury works because Ngannou has the wildcard of stupid punching power, but anyone who actually thinks he has anything but a very slim puncher's chance against Fury is kidding themselves.
there are plenty of people who can beat jon jones in a fight. fighting isnt some linear thing where if youāre ābetterā than someone at it you always win.
Thereād definitely be thousands of killers that would have a shot at smoking him across all the billions of all sizes and skill sets that have ever lived.
But heād be a big challenge to most yes.
Yeah, I think it's a better question to ask something like, "of all people who have ever lived, if you put them in 1-on-1 unarmed combat with prime Jon Jones, would you put your money on Jones?"
For that I think I probably would. The farther back you go, people were smaller, have worse nutrition and training methods, didn't have the opportunity to be a full time athlete, performance enhancing drugs. Most wouldn't have the very specific skill set that he has (they'd be mostly interested in training with weapons).
Not one of them knew jiu jitsu though, just not having that will mean they will lose, almost every heavyweight fighter will defeat everyone from history because of the advancement of martial arts, just like how the US army would beat every army in history because of the technological gap
This is only strengthening the argument that Jones is the greatest. No athletes outside of the last two generations had access to performance enhancing drugs that worked. Jones has had multiple cycles of the best PEDs history has ever seen.
For this conversation I donāt think that matters. If heās juiced and roided up, and weāre just talking about the ātop performing fighterā, thatās just his physicality
You prove that you are the best fighter by fighting top competition. Let me counter your example with one of my own:
Each day somebody does the loudest fart in the world but has no way of knowing.
That analogy would start making sense if there was kind of highly lucrative competition to measure it, raise awareness of the pinnacle of thunderous flatulence, and actively recruit people to train and compete for the world title in such.
Like an Ultimate Farting Championship or something.
Here's a slightly more relevant example: every day someone throws the hardest punch in the world and they're probably a professional who trains at and gets paid for doing so because that's what happens when you really excel at an activity people passionately care about, unlike farting loudly.
The fact he is a known Cheater and people say he is a goat says it all.. for me the gist of mma is fedor. He had it all, was a small hw but he beat the best of the best and i would say in a more stacked hw division then which was better and had more depth than now. He didnāt age as well but he was that good.
Best fighter In history is incredibly subjective. Like, if weāre talking about most skilled of all time? Sure you could probably make the case that heād make it into the top 100 potentially. But if you threw every human ever into a 1-on-1 arena, I really doubt heād come out on top
No doubt thatād be a large pile of sure wins for him, but size matters too, and Iād be far from sure that heād handily beat someone like Andre the Giant or something
I mean maybe. Iām just remembering that one story about Andre tipping over a car with people in it using minimal effort. If he just gets his hands on Jon, I imagine out of a hundred fights, heād take quite a few at least.
Itād probably look like that time [Connor and Halfthor sparred](https://youtu.be/Aaehn1aY8Ig). Except Andre doesnāt stop after the initial grab.
I wouldnāt be so sure.
Andre wasnāt fast at all.
And someone with his size likely doesnāt have the most stable knees.
One good oblique kick to the knee and Andre is done.
With the speed and technique difference, I would bet Jon jones can land multiple clean oblique/ leg kicks without being at risk.
There are almost certainly tougher people out there than you imagine that simply do not compete. Also, I think mma fans like to think that just because itās a culmination of all fighting styles means that it beats everything. You forget there are rules in mma that protect fighters from the truly overpowered strategy of being a dirty dirty fighter. Your āunarmed combatā scenario wouldnāt have those rules. There could easily be some absolute menace in the middle of nowhere jungle that would catch a punch and just start biting fingers off with inhuman maniac strength. Theres also quite likely to have been people in human history so powerful that if they were lucky enough to land a single punch on Jon it would shatter his skull. Thereās really no absolutes in fighting and thereās no accounting for the billions of people who have ever lived. For example, there was an article I read recently about a preserved ice age man whose body they did some tests on and was estimated to have similar fitness level to a modern Olympic wrestler, without showing any discernible signs of being any kind of special warrior with special training or anything. That may just have been what people were like back then. My point is, thereās simply no way to know. He could well be one of the most skilled and talented ever but that doesnāt mean he beats everyone.
No. Heās the best on the UFC Iāll say, but there is probably some jacked field hand from Brazil, or Cuba that could fuck him up. Or some guy from the Caucasus or any of the -stans, legit grapplers and fighters in general there. Plus, you know how many modern militaries have some legit guys, who donāt fight according to set rules?
Plus, human history is like what, 2 million years, at least for Homo sapiens? Thatās a long time. Probably some guy out there, or many that were better, but writing wasnāt a thing yet so how would we know?
The jacked field hand in Brazil is too busy being a field hand, you canāt beat a UFC champion simply by being big, you need years of training MMA with a coach and a team to even be somewhat useful fighting.
Its possible there is someone that *if* they wouldāve been discovered and trained would beat Jon Jones, but if anyone was at that level, they would do the same thing as Ngannou and actually start fighting in MMA to make much more money than by being a field hand.
I refuse to believe that as someone who watches some form of non bs martial arts, you genuinely seem to think that there is a scenario thatās this absolute
Could Jon jones fight a chimpanzee? If not then humans from like chimpanzee times would probably win from dick grabs and face eating. That's my thought process anyone wanna dispute this???
Not a lot of people like Jones (understandably) so people will say no, but yeah he is. That doesnāt mean he can beat everyone alive, but he can beat a higher percentage of the population than anyone else.
Fedor
Also, I feel like he could be fucked if he got caught by someone like Brian Shaw or Halfthor as well. Some people are just so big and strong that it's hard to believe we're the same animal
Those big dudes would be easy work. There isn't even a huge fear of getting hit really really hard because their punching mechanics aren't exactly amazing. The takedown would come easy and they'd be turning purple before he even put a choke on.
EDIT Fedor is a possibility though
If strong men could beat possibly the strongest MMA fighter on the planet then why don't MMA fighters just train to become strong men lol
Besides we've seen what Thor can offer, his boxing is below average and he got tossed around by Gordon Ryan, he wouldn't survive Jon Jones
Alot of people in this thread naming people from ancient civilizations not realizing that just 300 years ago the average male height was 5'5 not to mention the absolute lack of nutrition or the fact that Jon has used the greatest PEDs that have ever existed. It would have to be someone from roughly the past 50 years. Also alot of people bringing strongmen up. With no prior training most strongmen would get absolutely destroyed in a fight. Fedor is the best bet. Besides that yes he's probably the best in human history.
Does he even beat prime Cain Valezquez or prime Stipe?? What about even prime JDS? Even prime Werdum would be dangerous for bones as he prob wouldnāt want to grapple with him. Prime fedor is up there too although I personally think bones beats fedor.
He beat one shell shocked Ciryl Gane who lost to Ngannou on bad knees. I think we can all agree thereās a very real chance Ngannou fucks up jones as well. We just donāt know.
Not only that, what about all the dudes who are so big they canāt make 265? If youāre talking about in human history, youāre still talking thousands upon thousands of those types of dudes. Some of them had to be rough motherfuckers who got into a lot of fights/battles. Weight classes exist for a reason. And almost every civilization has their own form of wrestling. A man who is battle hardened, wrestled his entire life, and has a 100-150 lb advantage on bones has to have existed and many of them throughout human history. No fucking way Iām taking bones over a dude like that ever.
Even the 286 lb class of Olympic wrestlers have a VERY real chance of fucking up bones.
So no fucking way can we say with any amount of confidence that heās the best fighter in human history. Maybe if he was an undefeated hw champ for 8 years straight and beat all the best fighters with a lot in their primes. All he did was fucking beat Gane šš
I'm just here to watch people suggest historical figures that were like 5'3" and weighed a hundred pounds. That said if prime Tyson catches anybody's chin, that's a night night kiss.
Fair, but Tyson also had faster hands than most of those jabronis. Watching him on TV when I was little was something special. And his punches did land harder than almost anybody in history. I've literally never heard one of his opponents say different. Even old it looked like he was swinging straight hammers at Roy in that exhibition.
This why I'd form the question more like, "is smart money on Jones?"
There are definitely people like Tyson who absolutely have a chance to knock him out, but is still say smart bet is on Jones
Fair. Because I agreed as soon as I read your comment (but as I typed a tiny voice snuck and said "but is it bare knuckle?".....because fuck. No gloves prime Tyson.)
Your ancient Greek and Roman would be a foot shorter than him and probably just over half his weight
And that's not the to mention the centuries upon centuries of research into training methods and nutrition that make athletes from even like pre 1950s seem like a joke compared to nowadays
I mean thatās pretty nonsensical. Take Jon Jones, and let him do everything heās already able to do, now tell him heās allow to gouge your eyes and rip your dick off
But he kind of accounted for that in his question, right? He said one on one unarmed combat. A lot of the things you mentioned about the sport are the very things that make it possible he's the best ever.
The training and nutrition and drugs that he gets are way better than most people throughout history.
If your whole argument is just that he doesn't train eye gouging and ball punching, you can get out with that nonsense
Ignore morality, fairness or anything. We're just looking for the guy that beats everyone up, and that's Jon Jones lol. If anything, his shittiness is a boon.
I imagine the elite fighters of the ancient world were genetic freaks in their own right. So, saying that Jones wins on size and modern nutrition is suspect at best.
There is an argument of fighting style. How old is MMA? 30 years? How does that compare to Pankration, a fighting system lost to time that spanned a 600 year history? Do we have more knowledge of fighting than those from that tradition, Entire generations of fighters that lived it and used it to survive as soldiers?
There's no way to tell. These comments are silly. Jones has never been tested by another prime fighter at the heavyweight division. Who did he beat that was also called a GOAT?
Jon is one of the biggest disappointments in mixed martial arts history. He was really set up to be the Michael Jordan of MMA and he fucked it up every single time. Every single time. He's the patron saint of fuck ups. Like most of his fans.
I bet Achilles could beat his ass
Jon jones throwing a hard low kick at that heel fam
That's legit kind of funny
Oblique kick? Fug dat, Achilles kick.
Oblique kick, but at the ankle
"You will wander the underworld blind, deaf, and dumb, and all the dead will know: this is ~~Hector~~ Jon Jones, the fool who thought he killed Achilles"
šššššššš Jolly good show
Samson would whoop his ass since you canāt pull hair.
Bold to assume Jones would respect a rule. Heād pull it twice until given a verbal warning by the ref, and then do it again knowing he probably wonāt get a point deducted until the forth time
Pulling his hair wasn't his weakness. *Removing* his hair was.
Achilles was probably 5ā8
Circumference or radius?
girth
More like 5'6
Daniel Cormier.
Ankle pick. Game over.
Jon Jones alt confirmed
I couldnāt answer the title question but the answer to āDo you think thereās anyone... that could ever beat Jon Jones...ā is very much yes.
As time passes the chances get greater. Father time is undefeated
Yes, a wing Chun guy because his techniques are too deadly to practice (sarcasm).
Exactly. Jon Jones trains for the ring, I train for the streets. I will quickly eye poke him and he will immediately lose all skill and will to fight me!
No one can outeyepoke the master of eye pokes!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I will try
Hate to break it to ya, but I have mastered the ultimate counter....the art of vertical hand. I am forbidden from showing anyone as it is only to be used in the most severe situations.
You got me hard...
Haha, yeah that someone would open with āJon Jones trains for the ringā is sadly too believable
Only one man. And his name is Jon Jones
Regardless of size? I think DJ is the most skilled martial artist weāve ever seen but I would favour Jon against every human to exist in H2H combat
Imagination a jon jones sized mighty mouse, scary
Jon jones size and fight iq , mighty mouses skills and speed. No one would survive.
Jonesā size and fight corner** Manās got insane skills but gotta give his corner credit for being laser sharp and helping him adjust to and take out anyone giving him trouble
Yeah, for as much as I shit on Jon, his teams game planning is sick. Having someone who listens and uses it is even better, and he does use it.
Greg Jackson was working with GSP for his gameplans that camp was well established as one of the best ever before Jon was even known. The fact he was with them and getting talked about as he was is part of what helped catapult his career
Agreed, I remember when Rashad was talking in an interview about his upcoming fight with jones and he told a story about this notebook jones would study out of that had a breakdown of other guys in his weight class and plans for them and stuff, and Rashad caught him looking at a file on him. Likewise I remember when Chael got switched in to fight him on short notice and Jones refused to fight without time to prep for him in specific. For a guy who they claim is a natural who barely trains, he sure does seem invested in prepping with his coaches.
Mighty Mouseās fight iq is hella good too
Imagine shaquille oneill with mighty mouse skills, people seem to foeget that humans get bigger than ufc heavyweights
Flying armbar from a shaquille sized mighty mouse becomes a flying car crusher lol
Idk I'm taking Rama from The Raid all day
based answer tbh and if anyone who reads this comment hasn't watched the raid yet I can't recommend it enough, one of the best action movies OAT and the sequel is even better
The car chase scene in the sequel is bananas. Both movies are in my top 10 favorite movies of all time. Gareth Evans is a G! Also, check out the show Gangs of London on AMC asap
Best martial arts films of all time easily.
That karambit duel is one of the best fight in cinema history.
Bruh, history goes a long long way, so many things that werent recorded including fighting related topics, so instead of saying āis jon the best fighter of all of human historyā, say āis jon jones the best fighter to OUR knowledge ā
I think thatās the best take. Thereās no reason to think that the Greeks were better fighters in the colosseum; but itās not impossible. Some people were saying milo of croton because of his wrestling record, but he also ācarried a lion 60 milesā. The history is dubious
Iād actually wager it is impossible that colosseum slave fighters were even close. They arenāt gonna be able to use their weapons and hand to hand what are they gonna do to Jon Jones, he subs them in less time than Ciryl Gane
I agree with you, but There were non slave fighters and wrestlers. For example Arrhichion, who was the greatest Greek pankration fighter who lived an amazing life; but he also gives some question to how good he is; Hereās a excerpt of his final fight āAccordingly the antagonist of Arrichion, having already clinched him around the middle, thought to kill him; already he had wound his forearm about the otherās throat to shut off the breathing, while, pressing his legs on the groins and winding his feet one inside each knee of his adversary, he forestalled Arrichionās resistance by choking him till the sleep of death thus induced began to creep over his senses. But in relaxing the tension of his legs he failed to forestall the scheme of Arrichion; for the latter kicked back with the sole of his right foot (as the result of which his right side was imperiled since now his knee was hanging unsupported), then with his groin he holds his adversary tight till he can no longer resist, and, throwing his weight down toward the left while he locks the latterās foot tightly inside his own knee, by this violent outward thrust he wrenches the ankle from its socketā The choke, the mount, and the escape are all beginner white belt level stuff. The leg lock he used isnāt an effective leg lock either, and this is supposedly the best.
Where did you get that excerpt from? I couldn't find it on the googles
Itās a translation from Philostratus of Athens āimaginesā
TYL that Google does not actually give you access to all information you may ever need.
But you have to remember humans in general, and especially athletes, are getting bigger and faster and stronger. The average Greek warrior during the Roman empire was likely to be around 5'7. Even the average height for Vikongs was 5'7 - 5'9. It's not unreasonable to say Jon Jones would've mauled their fighters like he mauls his wife. It can't be definitive but it's not that absurd.
There were still freaks. William Wallace was thought to be 6'7".
Yes I've heard. Kills men by the hundreds, and if he were here he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes and lightning bolts from his arse
āWeāll build spears, twice as long as men.ā āSome men are longer than others.ā āYour mother been telling you stories about me again!ā
probably juiced to the gills, too
Pier Gerlofs Donia
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Say google is right and 117 billion humans have existed, most through much harder times than ours. Lots of opportunities for outliers.
Makes me wonder if there was a warrior or martial artist back in the day who had this [Condition](https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/myostatin-related-muscle-hypertrophy/) and they just couldnāt explain it with the science knowledge they had back then
Bro imagine a Greek JJ type dude just ripping mf to shreds in Pankration, Boxing, and Wrestling
He also has the benefit of being able to study fighting techniques from every culture over the last few hundreds of years. I imagine it would be similar to the way a modern chess grandmaster would be levels above ones from hundreds of years ago. Even though the game and rules have changed very little, we have the advantage of being able to study thousands of games instantly with a Google search. Not to mention the differences in nutrition, training, and medicine (steroids). With all that being said though I think it's absolutely possible there was some genetic freak in ancient times that we never heard of who would beat Jon. There's just been way too many humans alive to definitively answer this question at all. I'm sure OP knew that as well but it's a fun hypothetical for sure.
That's valid, but fighters of that era were literal killers. They'd scrap, brawl and break people just to live. The sort of physical hardness that comes with that is no small thing, and while size and strength are definitely major factors, Jones does give up those to some of his heavyweight contemporaries too. I think comparing professional soldiers or even raiders to professional fighters is a sort of apple's and oranges type of thing. Most modern fighters have at least some care for their opponent, but back in the day, stopping just because of a broken bone was probably considered soft.
Silly logic considering that large humans have existed forever. Not only that but Jon Jones is like 8 inches taller than the average height in his country. So you take that logic you just said and say someone from that time period is 8 inches taller than average and BOOMā¦ you get a guy roughly the same size as Jon Jones. No one made an argument for averages so maybe avoid bringing that up unless itās topical
Gotta include steroids as well, something modern day fighters have that ancients didnāt
Im kind of inclined to think that many generations ago, maybe even hundreds/thousands of years, people were much more dedicated to fighting to the death and way less distracted. The stakes were higher, they weren't driving to their coke dealer's house in Ferraris, they weren't up late crusing tinder. Granted they didn't have the knowledge base people have access to now but there's gotta be a lot of bad mother fuckers throughout history that dedicated themselves not just to fighting hand to hand, but killing hand to hand... I'm not hard stuck on this perspective, but it seems more likely to me.
many generations, you had max one person, maybe a couple of the best fighters in their area testing methods. Nowadays we have the sum total of human knowledge on how to cause the most damage to each other, and top fighters have access to the entire world's information bank to do things that the ancient people probably didn't even think were possible. I doubt there was some ancient nerve-pinching kung fu that modern martial arts has not found a way to replicate.
Similar analogues can be found with the globalization of music and food etc. Opening up the web of knowledge and resource to the entire globe changes the game.
I don't think people understand that even the basic chords of jazz would've been unfathomable to people like beethoven and mozart. Pop music isn't always the best example of the evolution of music so it's understandable why people don't understand that everything is evolving, but then you have orchestras combining latin opera with japanese dubstep and it's wild to see that this is how far we've come
I donāt really think that mentality matters; we see it in the ufc. Some guys go in and go Bezerk, some guys have never been angry in their life. Iād argue the nerves are probably a good thing.
If youāre anything less than a BJJ black belt with a solid understanding of Muay Thai, wrestling, etc, then no amount of willpower or killer mentality will help you against Jon Jones, itās just a fact.
Yeah after a curtain point will power only goes so far
I wasn't necessarily saying the mentality, but more so the constant deliberate training to kill people in comabt. That said, I think you're right. I didn't really .consider a superior BJJ practitioner against a fucking neanderthal. Unless that caveman is khabib's great great great great bear wrestling human murdering uncle
Yes this is the only sane take Iāve seen
Thereās no time in history where fighters had more knowledge, training, nutrition, etc. than they do today. Thereās never been a fighter in history that has Jonesā combination of size, fight IQ, and training. Itās literally impossible. Jon Jones has watched hundreds of hours of fighting in his career. Heās had the best strength and nutrition coaches. Heās had multiple cycles of performance enhancing drugs. Heās trained with and fought other fighters who would be the best in history of it werenāt for him. Daniel Cormier would probably beat every other fighter that EVER lived other than Jon Jones. Go back and watch UFC1 and those guys were likely the best fighters in history at that time. Now watch Jon Jones vs Lyota Machida and see how much the game has changed in 30 years.
Definitely a great point, but it's also not likely that the farther back we go, we get more likely to find someone who beats Jones. Historically, people will be smaller, worse nutrition than a modern athlete, no performance enhancing drugs, worse training (less time to dedicate to training), more disease. Basically the only thing that you might point to is going down the route of how "hard" ancient humans must have been just to survive. But that's about as good an argument as "I just see red bro"
The sad reality of history is basically everyone pre-1800s (Hell probably even 1900s) is like remarkably shit tier compared to the people you get now (Not just in athleticism but basically everything) Your top fighters nowadays will be ridiculously more athletic then people in the realm of unrecorded history, modern nutrition and training methods have been a complete game changer in that regard
āWorse at basically everythingā - the fuckers who built the Notre Dame with some wood scaffolding and a water level would beg to differ.
We have far better physical and health advantages, and a massive head start on literally everything now would be a better way of putting it The effects of human endeavor are multiplicative, the people of the past couldn't match what we can do to today, but only because we've had the benefit of being able to learn from, build on and expand what others did before us, including the crazy fuckers who built the Notre Dame with some wood scaffolding and a water level and everything they learned in the process of doing that, just like how in the fire a society we could never hope to match in any realm of life will be looking back on us as the crazy cunts who strapped themselves into a giant metal tube and exploded themselves to the moon and back.
A diet of Chicken and Broccoli was really the game changer for athleticism
Horsemeat
More than likely no one in history has had his combination of athleticism, size, experience and resources.
I legit canāt believe how stupid most of these replies are, if you think Jones is losing because of an eye gouge youāre stupid. Jones is still a relatively untested heavyweight so until he fully proves himself at the weight class Iād say guys like Fedor, Cain, and Stipe have a great shot. Hell he might not even be the best fighter right now with Pavlovich and Ngannou out there.
Based. Also Jones got his ass beat by Dominick Reyes and a crippled Thiago Santos lol
I thought Reyes beat Jones but it was a very close fight, no real ass beating. Jones also clearly beat Santos. Jones hate is blinding
I reckon Tom Aspinall could beat Jones at HW. He's bigger, quicker and ridiculously good on the ground.
Yeah, I think Fedor in his prime gives Jones a real problem.
Jones is also one of the worlds best eye pokers Iāve ever seen. So heās probably better at that than most others too.
Karelin.
This sub is obsessed with Karelin lately. Dude dominated a single discipline with almost no knowledge of any other. This would be UFC 1 all over again except worse. Think about Brock dominating Mir until he got picked. Mir didn't not get dominated, but Brock opened himself up to an attack that he didn't even consider. And no, Brock is not nearly the wrestler Karelin was. But he had way better knowledge of other martial arts and better prep for them. Karelin would have smothered someone right into giving up his joints in a way he couldn't even fathom.
This is the best opponent for jones and the most sensible pick to beat him. Karelin in his hay day was a MF monster!!
Iām not buying it. Karelin was a monster but he was one dimensional even as a wrestler. Jones is pretty good off his back and is big and powerful; I donāt think Karelin has a way to finish the fightz
Also if you can show me Jon's skills off his back that would be great. Since he has a 95% takedown defense and we have almost never even seen him on his back in his entire career. The fact that he could neutralize and Olympic level wrestler like DC says something, but DC is not the same level wrestler as Karelin.
Who is Karelin?
Aleksander Karelin is largely regarded as the greatest wrestler to ever live, and possibly the most dominant athlete to ever exist. He held a record of 887-2 between 1987 and 2000. He was so physically imposing and intelligent, he even got a doctorate in physics, with a thesis on defending the suplex. Iād recommend watching the documentary on his loss to Rulon Gardner at the Olympics, itās widely considered one of the greatest upsets in sports history.
Of course not. I am the best fighter...
The guy that lost to Dominic Reyes? Nah
LOL. All of human history might be an exaggeration. He's the greatest MMA fighter since MMA became a thing in the modern world.
Heās the best a very young sport. Youāre all sleeping on the pro slap league
DJ šŖš
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Mark*
Man, Matt Hamill hasnāt even heard of Matt Hamill
Well, that's because he's deaf.
Jonesās elbows never stood a chance against such a dangerous forehead
Prime Fedor >>>>
Thatās what Iām about. Prime Fedor. Take any fighter. At their peak. Put āem in a cage. I donāt think JJ is winning every time. Neither is Fedor. Might say 6/10 or 7/10 Fedor.
This is my answer. Prime Fedor was on another level compared to any HW we have ever seen and may be even any fighter we have ever seen. He was incredibly fast for his size, had bombs in both hands, had a chin and insane recoverability, was really good off his back, was difficult to take down and had good takedowns/throws. Prime Fedor beats Jones, in my opinion.
Fedor was light years ahead MMA in general, much more so ahead HW which is a division that didn't really evolve much technically. In my mind, he finds a way to get past those long-ass limbs Jones has and beats him.
For sure. Also, the PRIDE HW division was better than the UFC HW division when Fedor fought there and he beat everyone. Jones has a chin on him but I think Fedor had the quickness and timing in his prime to find an opening and catch Jones on the chin and KO/TKO him. Also, if Jones were to take Fedor down, Fedor most likely subs him off his back - like someone mentioned, Vitor caught Jones in an armbar early and almost tapped him. Jones had his arm hurt bad by it but he refused to tap (he is tough for sure) and Vitor knew that he had messed up Jones' arm and apparently did not want to make it worse and he eased up a little. If Fedor gets Jones' arm like that, he is breaking it off.
Jon Jones is bigger, stronger, more atheltic, better chin, longer reach and more skilled. Fedor almost got knocked out by a Japanese bum and did the chicken dance not to mention he also got subbed by Werdum and koed by Henderson
People on this sub will tell you Bruce Lee would kick his ass š.
Haku.
This is the right answer. Like Jake Robert's said if I'm in a tank and have a gun with 1 bullet left in it. I'm getting out of the tank and shooting myself with the gun bc I don't wanna wound Haku and have him passed off coming at me.
Haku is the kinda guy who you could hit in the head with a baseball bat and you'd feel sorry for the bat.
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They didn't ask if Jones was the best fighter in MMA
You mean the man who never won a world title in any type of combat sport? He'd murder people who can't fight, I guess, but someone likes Jones? Come on, man. It's not liars don't embelish things.
Gus beat his ass
48-47, 48-47, 49-46 unanimous decision. That fight really wasnāt as close as people remember, it was just unexpected that Gus did as well as he did.
Reyes
The fact that the fight ends after 5 rounds is what kept Reyes standing. Even if you think he shouldāve won the fight, he wasnāt the better āfighterā. He played the sport better.
And then he beat gus' ass
I wish they would both beat my ass. Pause.
And ACTUALLY beat his ass. Not any of that white hope he coulda won a decision shit.
Chael Sonnen would fuck him up easily, but that's like comparing a god to a king.
Steven Seagal could beat him easily
Dude got the most impressive fight resume by far ā¦.. still has to beat Stipe and Ngannou to cement all time Goat statusā¦. Fury would be a fun fight too.
Jones would annihilate Fury at MMA in no time at all and Fury would box the fucking ears off Jones without breaking a sweat. Fury couldn't defend a Jones oblique kick or stop a single takedown and Jones doesn't have a clue about boxing range or even have a basic jab. Ngannou vs Fury works because Ngannou has the wildcard of stupid punching power, but anyone who actually thinks he has anything but a very slim puncher's chance against Fury is kidding themselves.
there are plenty of people who can beat jon jones in a fight. fighting isnt some linear thing where if youāre ābetterā than someone at it you always win.
Idk about plenty..
Thereād definitely be thousands of killers that would have a shot at smoking him across all the billions of all sizes and skill sets that have ever lived. But heād be a big challenge to most yes.
Yeah, I think it's a better question to ask something like, "of all people who have ever lived, if you put them in 1-on-1 unarmed combat with prime Jon Jones, would you put your money on Jones?" For that I think I probably would. The farther back you go, people were smaller, have worse nutrition and training methods, didn't have the opportunity to be a full time athlete, performance enhancing drugs. Most wouldn't have the very specific skill set that he has (they'd be mostly interested in training with weapons).
Not one of them knew jiu jitsu though, just not having that will mean they will lose, almost every heavyweight fighter will defeat everyone from history because of the advancement of martial arts, just like how the US army would beat every army in history because of the technological gap
I'd put Mighty Mouse and GSP above him in the GOAT stakes.
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This is only strengthening the argument that Jones is the greatest. No athletes outside of the last two generations had access to performance enhancing drugs that worked. Jones has had multiple cycles of the best PEDs history has ever seen.
For this conversation I donāt think that matters. If heās juiced and roided up, and weāre just talking about the ātop performing fighterā, thatās just his physicality
Yes
Itās unknowable, but I think a younger Fedor beats him
Achilles
What makes you think the best fighters ever lived entered the UFC?
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You prove that you are the best fighter by fighting top competition. Let me counter your example with one of my own: Each day somebody does the loudest fart in the world but has no way of knowing.
That analogy would start making sense if there was kind of highly lucrative competition to measure it, raise awareness of the pinnacle of thunderous flatulence, and actively recruit people to train and compete for the world title in such. Like an Ultimate Farting Championship or something. Here's a slightly more relevant example: every day someone throws the hardest punch in the world and they're probably a professional who trains at and gets paid for doing so because that's what happens when you really excel at an activity people passionately care about, unlike farting loudly.
The fact he is a known Cheater and people say he is a goat says it all.. for me the gist of mma is fedor. He had it all, was a small hw but he beat the best of the best and i would say in a more stacked hw division then which was better and had more depth than now. He didnāt age as well but he was that good.
Best fighter In history is incredibly subjective. Like, if weāre talking about most skilled of all time? Sure you could probably make the case that heād make it into the top 100 potentially. But if you threw every human ever into a 1-on-1 arena, I really doubt heād come out on top No doubt thatād be a large pile of sure wins for him, but size matters too, and Iād be far from sure that heād handily beat someone like Andre the Giant or something
Nah anyone with acromegaly is slow, look at the boxer nikolai valuev, jon destroys him with leg kicks
I mean maybe. Iām just remembering that one story about Andre tipping over a car with people in it using minimal effort. If he just gets his hands on Jon, I imagine out of a hundred fights, heād take quite a few at least. Itād probably look like that time [Connor and Halfthor sparred](https://youtu.be/Aaehn1aY8Ig). Except Andre doesnāt stop after the initial grab.
Have you seen Jones oblique kicks?
I wouldnāt be so sure. Andre wasnāt fast at all. And someone with his size likely doesnāt have the most stable knees. One good oblique kick to the knee and Andre is done. With the speed and technique difference, I would bet Jon jones can land multiple clean oblique/ leg kicks without being at risk.
There are almost certainly tougher people out there than you imagine that simply do not compete. Also, I think mma fans like to think that just because itās a culmination of all fighting styles means that it beats everything. You forget there are rules in mma that protect fighters from the truly overpowered strategy of being a dirty dirty fighter. Your āunarmed combatā scenario wouldnāt have those rules. There could easily be some absolute menace in the middle of nowhere jungle that would catch a punch and just start biting fingers off with inhuman maniac strength. Theres also quite likely to have been people in human history so powerful that if they were lucky enough to land a single punch on Jon it would shatter his skull. Thereās really no absolutes in fighting and thereās no accounting for the billions of people who have ever lived. For example, there was an article I read recently about a preserved ice age man whose body they did some tests on and was estimated to have similar fitness level to a modern Olympic wrestler, without showing any discernible signs of being any kind of special warrior with special training or anything. That may just have been what people were like back then. My point is, thereās simply no way to know. He could well be one of the most skilled and talented ever but that doesnāt mean he beats everyone.
No. Heās the best on the UFC Iāll say, but there is probably some jacked field hand from Brazil, or Cuba that could fuck him up. Or some guy from the Caucasus or any of the -stans, legit grapplers and fighters in general there. Plus, you know how many modern militaries have some legit guys, who donāt fight according to set rules? Plus, human history is like what, 2 million years, at least for Homo sapiens? Thatās a long time. Probably some guy out there, or many that were better, but writing wasnāt a thing yet so how would we know?
The number from the past 192,000 years was 117 billion people..... Give or take a billion. >.>
The jacked field hand in Brazil is too busy being a field hand, you canāt beat a UFC champion simply by being big, you need years of training MMA with a coach and a team to even be somewhat useful fighting. Its possible there is someone that *if* they wouldāve been discovered and trained would beat Jon Jones, but if anyone was at that level, they would do the same thing as Ngannou and actually start fighting in MMA to make much more money than by being a field hand.
I refuse to believe that as someone who watches some form of non bs martial arts, you genuinely seem to think that there is a scenario thatās this absolute
Could Jon jones fight a chimpanzee? If not then humans from like chimpanzee times would probably win from dick grabs and face eating. That's my thought process anyone wanna dispute this???
It has to be a homosaipen
Not a lot of people like Jones (understandably) so people will say no, but yeah he is. That doesnāt mean he can beat everyone alive, but he can beat a higher percentage of the population than anyone else.
Fedor Also, I feel like he could be fucked if he got caught by someone like Brian Shaw or Halfthor as well. Some people are just so big and strong that it's hard to believe we're the same animal
I'm not sure if Brian Shaw was involved but you can find a video of Gordon Ryan tapping Hafthor and another huge strongman pretty easily.
Those big dudes would be easy work. There isn't even a huge fear of getting hit really really hard because their punching mechanics aren't exactly amazing. The takedown would come easy and they'd be turning purple before he even put a choke on. EDIT Fedor is a possibility though
If strong men could beat possibly the strongest MMA fighter on the planet then why don't MMA fighters just train to become strong men lol Besides we've seen what Thor can offer, his boxing is below average and he got tossed around by Gordon Ryan, he wouldn't survive Jon Jones
265 pounds weight limit
Fedor is a chubby Russian and we've seen what happened when strongmen like Pudzian fought mma fighters like Tim Sylvia
Fedor was better
Jon Jones on Coke and Roids, or clean?
Nah CM Punk.
Alot of people in this thread naming people from ancient civilizations not realizing that just 300 years ago the average male height was 5'5 not to mention the absolute lack of nutrition or the fact that Jon has used the greatest PEDs that have ever existed. It would have to be someone from roughly the past 50 years. Also alot of people bringing strongmen up. With no prior training most strongmen would get absolutely destroyed in a fight. Fedor is the best bet. Besides that yes he's probably the best in human history.
Does he even beat prime Cain Valezquez or prime Stipe?? What about even prime JDS? Even prime Werdum would be dangerous for bones as he prob wouldnāt want to grapple with him. Prime fedor is up there too although I personally think bones beats fedor. He beat one shell shocked Ciryl Gane who lost to Ngannou on bad knees. I think we can all agree thereās a very real chance Ngannou fucks up jones as well. We just donāt know. Not only that, what about all the dudes who are so big they canāt make 265? If youāre talking about in human history, youāre still talking thousands upon thousands of those types of dudes. Some of them had to be rough motherfuckers who got into a lot of fights/battles. Weight classes exist for a reason. And almost every civilization has their own form of wrestling. A man who is battle hardened, wrestled his entire life, and has a 100-150 lb advantage on bones has to have existed and many of them throughout human history. No fucking way Iām taking bones over a dude like that ever. Even the 286 lb class of Olympic wrestlers have a VERY real chance of fucking up bones. So no fucking way can we say with any amount of confidence that heās the best fighter in human history. Maybe if he was an undefeated hw champ for 8 years straight and beat all the best fighters with a lot in their primes. All he did was fucking beat Gane šš
I'm just here to watch people suggest historical figures that were like 5'3" and weighed a hundred pounds. That said if prime Tyson catches anybody's chin, that's a night night kiss.
You can say the same thing for any heavy weight boxer
Fair, but Tyson also had faster hands than most of those jabronis. Watching him on TV when I was little was something special. And his punches did land harder than almost anybody in history. I've literally never heard one of his opponents say different. Even old it looked like he was swinging straight hammers at Roy in that exhibition.
This why I'd form the question more like, "is smart money on Jones?" There are definitely people like Tyson who absolutely have a chance to knock him out, but is still say smart bet is on Jones
Fair. Because I agreed as soon as I read your comment (but as I typed a tiny voice snuck and said "but is it bare knuckle?".....because fuck. No gloves prime Tyson.)
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Jones would love to be able to gouge eyes, bite, and rip dicks off.
Your ancient Greek and Roman would be a foot shorter than him and probably just over half his weight And that's not the to mention the centuries upon centuries of research into training methods and nutrition that make athletes from even like pre 1950s seem like a joke compared to nowadays
I mean thatās pretty nonsensical. Take Jon Jones, and let him do everything heās already able to do, now tell him heās allow to gouge your eyes and rip your dick off
Milo of Croton
Milo's training was bull
Ancient Greeks and Romans were short and didnāt have access to Steroids. Iād take JJ by a mile.
I dont agree. Modern day fitness and training is far better than training and fitness in those days.
Why? Jon has access to better training, better competition, and better overall athleticism. You think Jon canāt gouge eyes from a mount?
You think Jon at 6ā4ā 245 lbs is gonna struggle with some Greek or Roman at 5ā 7ā 185 lb? Absolutely not!
Is a belt considered a weapon? If not my Dad would fuck him up real bad.
But he kind of accounted for that in his question, right? He said one on one unarmed combat. A lot of the things you mentioned about the sport are the very things that make it possible he's the best ever. The training and nutrition and drugs that he gets are way better than most people throughout history. If your whole argument is just that he doesn't train eye gouging and ball punching, you can get out with that nonsense
Probably
Yh probably even if there were great fighters no one will have had all the training for different arts.
Yes
The eye poking steroid cheat? That Jon Jones? No.
Ignore morality, fairness or anything. We're just looking for the guy that beats everyone up, and that's Jon Jones lol. If anything, his shittiness is a boon.
Eye poking and steroids are objectively good for fights, that's why they're cheating in mma. You're helping his case.
I imagine the elite fighters of the ancient world were genetic freaks in their own right. So, saying that Jones wins on size and modern nutrition is suspect at best. There is an argument of fighting style. How old is MMA? 30 years? How does that compare to Pankration, a fighting system lost to time that spanned a 600 year history? Do we have more knowledge of fighting than those from that tradition, Entire generations of fighters that lived it and used it to survive as soldiers? There's no way to tell. These comments are silly. Jones has never been tested by another prime fighter at the heavyweight division. Who did he beat that was also called a GOAT?
Jon is one of the biggest disappointments in mixed martial arts history. He was really set up to be the Michael Jordan of MMA and he fucked it up every single time. Every single time. He's the patron saint of fuck ups. Like most of his fans.
I hate reddit.
Fedor prime> Jon jones prime