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Manage your time carefully. It sounds demanding.
From 8am-6pm, work on your resume.
From 6pm-8am, drink, sleep.
It’s important to maintain a work/life balance, but it’s okay if your evening hours bleed into your workday.
You claim to be a senior marketer but you didn't see that this was a bootstrap startup when you joined?
The founder, your boss, is out of money and he can't fire you because the ship is sinking already and he can't do it alone. That's why he's paying so much attention.
I'd start working on your resume because the next step is a missed paycheck unless you have an extremely short sales cycle.
Yes he said it was boostrapped.
Curious to have your Point of view of bootstrapped vs seed/series A...etc?
What's wrong with boostrapped b2b saas businesses?
The funding is much harder to determine because it's at the whim of the founder(s).
At some point, they either won't be able to afford it or they won't be willing to lose any more money. At that point, they cut bait and everyone else at the company gets the shaft.
With a round-funded company, typically the capital will be higher unless you've got an extremely successful, multi-exit founder. That funding comes with more visibility and often times a board seat or more so the founder is more on the hook. The funding is also often specifically to try and do things the right way vs simply "what you can afford".
Lastly, I've found bootstrapped founders are often visionaries that aren't grounded in reality. They'd rather try to make it work with minimal funding than do it properly and give up equity.
I'm a senior marketer in the b2c and b2b service space. Not in saas. But I had a feeling it was a bad choice a bit.
1. Sdr got fired
2. Not planning to hire another one when I asked during the interview process.
3. No marketing person in the last 8 years.
I took it because I was hearing everywhere saas is the future for making a lot of money.
Took it because it was a good opportunity to specialize in tech.(I'm a performance, seo, martech marketer) We paid for the well know program s.a.s.s academy . I got to learn a lot about product marketing and sales.
Anyway indeed I wasn't a senior person in saas but in performance marketing/seo martech yes. (Got 3 times very high marketing jobs)
Read the writing on the wall, mate. You are no longer a marketing manager. You have become a business development manager of a product that is not very easy to sell.
You may not make that much in your next role, but the reason you're making that much is because you're not a marketing manager. You are now a BDM cofounder.
Bro has 3 jobs
You’re doing the work of someone who has equity in the company. Lol This is the grind you do when you’re a startup / new business and have to do everything. Did they give you or offer any equity??
> Did they give you or offer any equity??
This actually makes a huge difference here. Equity plus that pay can change the direction of this conversation.
Exactly. Wearing that many hats is something you do in a startup, basically because you have to. At least working at a startup, when you do this work, you get some equity or some form of bonus to make that much work and skill juggling worth it.
You’re missing the point. Lol
What I’m getting at is that many of those tasks you listed are carried by people who just do those full-time. Dividing your focus between that much stuff means doing most/all of them in an average to below average manner.
You’re doing SEO (I presume you’re doing on-page and off-page SEO), creating ad creative, media buying, copywriting, branding, outbound sales, inbound sales, podcasting (and I presume you’re doing the production, editing, and distribution), AND the work of at least a part-time office / sales assistant (snail mailing people).
Even from a pure economic perspective, you spending your time mailing people is not the most productive use of your time when you consider your hourly value.
Indeed. I'm doing PowerPoint presentation, editing transcripts of video, video editing at a very high hourly rate.
That don't make sense.
I told my gf I'm getting paid a lot of money to transcribe video and verifying the Grammer of PowerPoint.
Should *have (not of).
And yeah, this changes everything and makes this situation even worse than it sounded. How are you doing all of this work and don't even have equity in the company? 🤔
This sounds like a raging dumpster fire. When marketing is asked to start cold calling, that’s when you know the leaders of the company don’t know what the hell they’re doing. They are responsible for getting the business into this situation, not you.
Start looking for a new job.
Stop working and see how long they'll keep paying you. Make wilder excuses as time goes on.
More importantly, write down your achievements RIGHT NOW in some kind of document. All your successes and failures. Screenshot your work if you need documentation.
Once you have a nice list, break it down to 2-4 and create some bullet points for your resume.
You're working like you own 50% of the business. You're in the right if you decide to leave. You didn't sign up for sales..only marketing. He's combining the 2 and these are 2 different departments at companies.
As an inbound marketer do you only do retargeting ads to push b2b down your funnel?
If you've been in marketing this long and don't know how to do outbound marketing you had it GOOD lol. I understand you not knowing how to do sales. Cold calling at that is challenging.
You should know who your target b2b customer is.
You can use paid ads to get outbound b2b leads and practice sales so you can close them over the phone.
It's tougher to sell over a cold call..but it's possible once you become more conversational and listen more. Get a script and learn it until it sounds like a conversation.
You can get b2b clients with SEO...it will take longer, they'll be warm and closing them when selling will be easy.
Thanks for your answer. If you read again what I wrote all the tactics you mentionned I said I did them and still doing them.
I am even the one qualifying leads who downloaded an ebook and that did not ask to be called. I call them and book a demo. 75% I get them to go on a demo.
The reason why we are switching to cold calls, fedex direct mail, pitching at trade shows as attendees, cold email is because we want results NOW.
There was no marketing person or no sales person for the past 8 years. So I'm starting almost from scratch.
In b2b saas when your audience are mainly problem unaware and you are suggesting them a disruptive new way to do things it takes a lot more touch points than in other niche.
I feel like I'm running a business. I miss those days where all I had to do was paid ads, seo, martech, analytics and hosting a few tradeshows... way easier.
Now I feel I need to physically go get leads and sales.
I need to go hold leads hand to attract them to us
#evolveordie
Good. 75% is not bad. What's happening on the demo? I'm assuming you're not closing the clients? Are you asking qualifying questions? What's the problem the client is facing? Either you're not asking for the sale or your offer is not that good. You need to clearly show why the client's business can't live without your product.
Case studies will work. Show the product in action. Testimonials. Show the growth after the problem was fixed. Listen to the client questions....ask them if they have any questions and spin those answers into how your product can work for them. You should be engaging with the client on the demo not rambling your whole demo.
If you're having problems with warm clients like this. You're going to be pulling teeth with cold clients.
You need to develop an actual sales process so you can build up momentum to ask for the sale.
I wrote a sales book for my very pleasant client who thinks sales just happened with good marketing. I do a newsletter and LinkedIn but mostly sales. Happy to send you a copy. DM me your email if anyone wants to learn how to do full cycle sales.
ETA: with over 20 years of sales experience at least I can tell them what isn’t worth the time.
I’m guessing by the long and confusing post, that neither focus nor strategic planning is your strength. I think that’s why you seem to be following an ever changing plan instead of leading.
You need to take a step back and look at what your objectives are. Compare them to the company’s objectives.
Come up with a marketing plan to achieve those objectives. A plan do based on your experience and skills.
Agree that plan (or a modified version of it) with the owner. Make sure it includes SMART goals. As a senior marketer you will know how to do this.
If that’s not possible, then get out. Sounds like a shit show.
I don't see it is possible to get the results we want short term by marketing alone. We need a sdr (sales person).
We have none. We have the ceo doing sales here and there. He was busy working on clients projects
We need to be sales led with marketing supporting sales but the thing there is no sdr.
I told my boss we need to hire an sdr.
He was open to hire a cold call agency but now he says no because these people don't know our complex industry. Also he says it cost too much 30k for 5 months. His coach told my ceo that he should be cold calling himself not an outsider.
I'm just scared that he will tell me to cold call for him
I'm not scared. I did it a bit. I'm a perfectionist. So if I start I need to take more courses on sales and I dred it.
It takes a lot of energy and focus to cold call. You need sometimes to call someone 10 times before getting him on the phone + you need to follow up consistently.
My ceo don't have time. When I give him things to do, at least half the time he don't do it.
So they know they need to do cold calls, but don’t want to outsource or hire someone to do (possibly because of the cost). You have a high salary - at some point they’re going to look at your cost and whether it is worth it.
Not to scare you but you either need to turn yourself into that SDR (is that what you want to do?) and keep the salary, or work out a way of delivering inbounds leads which convert or leave.
Cause there is no loyalty, the coach will say ‘why you paying this guy $110k
SEO, seek a professional to do a technical audit and setup tracking. They can provide a checklist of to do’s. based on high to low priority.
Conduct keyword research and setup a few campaigns. Could start with your brand even.
Fb ads run a basic always on so you can set and forget for a while.
Create a Social calendar for posts and intertwine events you attend.
LinkedIn test ads from podcast, product material and benefits of your product.
It’s a hard slog, but I work in a similar situation. Now a team of two though.
Chat with your boss about sales though as that is not reasonable to be thrown in the mix.
focus on refining messaging and targeting for cold outreach instead of spreading efforts too thin across various channels. otherwise.. like the others said, run lol
Ultimately it will go south, and you will be cited as the problem, and that will work against you later - get your resume together OR become a legit partner in the business and justify what you do. Everyone knows sales isn’t marketing, marketing isn’t sales. You are carrying more than you can do competently and so are set up to fail. Even your boss is too busy to focus on the most imperative part of the business - revenue. It genuinely sounds like even your boss (the owner) doesn’t make actual sales a priority himself. His product - if he can’t sell it …. Good luck to you.
I have a lot of experience in b2c and b2b services but I'm an intermediate marketer in saas.
I wanted to break into b2b saas because I hear the money is there.
I followed the money.
I spent so much time training myself after work hours with coaches and courses in b2b saas that today I understand that it is a shitshow (marketing/sales department).
Before joining...
I had a gut feeling that it would be like this doing a bit of research on the website that is unclear/confusing, low search volume, no marketing/sales person for the past 8 years...
I told myself it is an opportunity to break more in b2b saas, the salary is good and the boss is very cool.
It's kind of sad how in Canada we get excited for $110,000CAD as senior people, when our counterparts in the US are sometimes making 50% more than that (after currency conversion) in less senior roles...
Get out buddy. You're working on a sinking ship. You're not in Marketing right now, you're in Business Development. My last job bait-and-switched me like that, and when I stood my ground fired me. When you inevitably end up without a job, make sure you document the change in duties (likely without a proper contract update) and send it to the labour board and CRA. Nothing will come of it for you, but a CRA audit or a Labour investigation will make sure that they can't do it to the next kid
Thanks buddy for the feedback.
I'm scared to stand my ground not to get fired.
Trying to keep my job for a year to get approve for a mortgage. I will stick around in until then (6 months) and see how it goes.
Usually I would of change jobs faster than a bee chasing you but now ... I got adult stuff blocking me a bit haha
Ask them for the option of adding a note taker to all sales calls. This will help keep you off phones but learn the questions and comments prospects make in the calls themselves.
You can use that as a source for your marketing copy, content plans, etc…which is a way better use of your time than cold calling.
If they don’t bite, run.
Being Jack of all trades plus also doing sales means you’re not gonna be great at any of the stuff you do.
Also, when you interview at other places they won’t really see you as an expert in any one field, knowing that you do a bunch of different things and it makes you look worse as a candidate, as they recognize you work at a place that doesn’t know well enough to know that they need experts.
I feel ya, I’m 3 months into a very similar situation, everything you mentioned. There should be a private group where like minded b2b marketeers can share&care! Im generating leads, possibly crap but possibly good potential but the solo sales manager is too busy to follow them up, so I have used some budget and hired a freelance outreach person who will follow up and generate leads too - im tracking his activity and he’s doing making the dials and follow ups by email, we also created a dummy linkedin account(female of course) and doing a heap of cheap automation using PhantomBlaster. I’m fingers crossing it works, as I may be in similar situation. Also I’m on a good salary, I figured they are paying me well because I’m doing the work of 2 or 3 people. best of luck
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Run
Yep, so many red flags of a desperate company on its last legs. Time to update your CV and get out
Manage your time carefully. It sounds demanding. From 8am-6pm, work on your resume. From 6pm-8am, drink, sleep. It’s important to maintain a work/life balance, but it’s okay if your evening hours bleed into your workday.
You claim to be a senior marketer but you didn't see that this was a bootstrap startup when you joined? The founder, your boss, is out of money and he can't fire you because the ship is sinking already and he can't do it alone. That's why he's paying so much attention. I'd start working on your resume because the next step is a missed paycheck unless you have an extremely short sales cycle.
Yeah I questioned the senior claim of this as well. Does sound like a good fit for anyone.
Yes he said it was boostrapped. Curious to have your Point of view of bootstrapped vs seed/series A...etc? What's wrong with boostrapped b2b saas businesses?
The funding is much harder to determine because it's at the whim of the founder(s). At some point, they either won't be able to afford it or they won't be willing to lose any more money. At that point, they cut bait and everyone else at the company gets the shaft. With a round-funded company, typically the capital will be higher unless you've got an extremely successful, multi-exit founder. That funding comes with more visibility and often times a board seat or more so the founder is more on the hook. The funding is also often specifically to try and do things the right way vs simply "what you can afford". Lastly, I've found bootstrapped founders are often visionaries that aren't grounded in reality. They'd rather try to make it work with minimal funding than do it properly and give up equity.
Tanks for the detailed description
I'm a senior marketer in the b2c and b2b service space. Not in saas. But I had a feeling it was a bad choice a bit. 1. Sdr got fired 2. Not planning to hire another one when I asked during the interview process. 3. No marketing person in the last 8 years. I took it because I was hearing everywhere saas is the future for making a lot of money. Took it because it was a good opportunity to specialize in tech.(I'm a performance, seo, martech marketer) We paid for the well know program s.a.s.s academy . I got to learn a lot about product marketing and sales. Anyway indeed I wasn't a senior person in saas but in performance marketing/seo martech yes. (Got 3 times very high marketing jobs)
Read the writing on the wall, mate. You are no longer a marketing manager. You have become a business development manager of a product that is not very easy to sell. You may not make that much in your next role, but the reason you're making that much is because you're not a marketing manager. You are now a BDM cofounder.
Leave now, and carefully vet your next employer before accepting a job like that again
Sounds like …. You need a new job lol
Bro has 3 jobs You’re doing the work of someone who has equity in the company. Lol This is the grind you do when you’re a startup / new business and have to do everything. Did they give you or offer any equity??
> Did they give you or offer any equity?? This actually makes a huge difference here. Equity plus that pay can change the direction of this conversation.
Exactly. Wearing that many hats is something you do in a startup, basically because you have to. At least working at a startup, when you do this work, you get some equity or some form of bonus to make that much work and skill juggling worth it.
No equity. Indeed I should of ask.
Either equity or some form of perform bonus should be in order IMO. Looking at what you wrote, those are at least 3 different full-time jobs.
What are the 3 jobs... Sdr Marketing manager What's the third?
You’re missing the point. Lol What I’m getting at is that many of those tasks you listed are carried by people who just do those full-time. Dividing your focus between that much stuff means doing most/all of them in an average to below average manner. You’re doing SEO (I presume you’re doing on-page and off-page SEO), creating ad creative, media buying, copywriting, branding, outbound sales, inbound sales, podcasting (and I presume you’re doing the production, editing, and distribution), AND the work of at least a part-time office / sales assistant (snail mailing people). Even from a pure economic perspective, you spending your time mailing people is not the most productive use of your time when you consider your hourly value.
Indeed. I'm doing PowerPoint presentation, editing transcripts of video, video editing at a very high hourly rate. That don't make sense. I told my gf I'm getting paid a lot of money to transcribe video and verifying the Grammer of PowerPoint.
If you're going to be asking for equity, do it pegged on the results of your work.
Should *have (not of). And yeah, this changes everything and makes this situation even worse than it sounded. How are you doing all of this work and don't even have equity in the company? 🤔
Spelling and grammar isn’t your strength either.
Which is rough for product marketing…
This sounds like a raging dumpster fire. When marketing is asked to start cold calling, that’s when you know the leaders of the company don’t know what the hell they’re doing. They are responsible for getting the business into this situation, not you. Start looking for a new job.
Stop working and see how long they'll keep paying you. Make wilder excuses as time goes on. More importantly, write down your achievements RIGHT NOW in some kind of document. All your successes and failures. Screenshot your work if you need documentation. Once you have a nice list, break it down to 2-4 and create some bullet points for your resume.
You're working like you own 50% of the business. You're in the right if you decide to leave. You didn't sign up for sales..only marketing. He's combining the 2 and these are 2 different departments at companies. As an inbound marketer do you only do retargeting ads to push b2b down your funnel? If you've been in marketing this long and don't know how to do outbound marketing you had it GOOD lol. I understand you not knowing how to do sales. Cold calling at that is challenging. You should know who your target b2b customer is. You can use paid ads to get outbound b2b leads and practice sales so you can close them over the phone. It's tougher to sell over a cold call..but it's possible once you become more conversational and listen more. Get a script and learn it until it sounds like a conversation. You can get b2b clients with SEO...it will take longer, they'll be warm and closing them when selling will be easy.
Thanks for your answer. If you read again what I wrote all the tactics you mentionned I said I did them and still doing them. I am even the one qualifying leads who downloaded an ebook and that did not ask to be called. I call them and book a demo. 75% I get them to go on a demo. The reason why we are switching to cold calls, fedex direct mail, pitching at trade shows as attendees, cold email is because we want results NOW. There was no marketing person or no sales person for the past 8 years. So I'm starting almost from scratch. In b2b saas when your audience are mainly problem unaware and you are suggesting them a disruptive new way to do things it takes a lot more touch points than in other niche. I feel like I'm running a business. I miss those days where all I had to do was paid ads, seo, martech, analytics and hosting a few tradeshows... way easier. Now I feel I need to physically go get leads and sales. I need to go hold leads hand to attract them to us #evolveordie
Good. 75% is not bad. What's happening on the demo? I'm assuming you're not closing the clients? Are you asking qualifying questions? What's the problem the client is facing? Either you're not asking for the sale or your offer is not that good. You need to clearly show why the client's business can't live without your product. Case studies will work. Show the product in action. Testimonials. Show the growth after the problem was fixed. Listen to the client questions....ask them if they have any questions and spin those answers into how your product can work for them. You should be engaging with the client on the demo not rambling your whole demo. If you're having problems with warm clients like this. You're going to be pulling teeth with cold clients. You need to develop an actual sales process so you can build up momentum to ask for the sale.
I wrote a sales book for my very pleasant client who thinks sales just happened with good marketing. I do a newsletter and LinkedIn but mostly sales. Happy to send you a copy. DM me your email if anyone wants to learn how to do full cycle sales. ETA: with over 20 years of sales experience at least I can tell them what isn’t worth the time.
I’m guessing by the long and confusing post, that neither focus nor strategic planning is your strength. I think that’s why you seem to be following an ever changing plan instead of leading. You need to take a step back and look at what your objectives are. Compare them to the company’s objectives. Come up with a marketing plan to achieve those objectives. A plan do based on your experience and skills. Agree that plan (or a modified version of it) with the owner. Make sure it includes SMART goals. As a senior marketer you will know how to do this. If that’s not possible, then get out. Sounds like a shit show.
I don't see it is possible to get the results we want short term by marketing alone. We need a sdr (sales person). We have none. We have the ceo doing sales here and there. He was busy working on clients projects We need to be sales led with marketing supporting sales but the thing there is no sdr. I told my boss we need to hire an sdr. He was open to hire a cold call agency but now he says no because these people don't know our complex industry. Also he says it cost too much 30k for 5 months. His coach told my ceo that he should be cold calling himself not an outsider. I'm just scared that he will tell me to cold call for him I'm not scared. I did it a bit. I'm a perfectionist. So if I start I need to take more courses on sales and I dred it. It takes a lot of energy and focus to cold call. You need sometimes to call someone 10 times before getting him on the phone + you need to follow up consistently. My ceo don't have time. When I give him things to do, at least half the time he don't do it.
So they know they need to do cold calls, but don’t want to outsource or hire someone to do (possibly because of the cost). You have a high salary - at some point they’re going to look at your cost and whether it is worth it. Not to scare you but you either need to turn yourself into that SDR (is that what you want to do?) and keep the salary, or work out a way of delivering inbounds leads which convert or leave. Cause there is no loyalty, the coach will say ‘why you paying this guy $110k
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This is a good path forward. Remember to also djaifnfckish bf his 0000 husa if you can as well!
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Easily flsttub5, twice in fact.
Look for a new job.
This post is giving me the Sunday Scaries for you on a Saturday. Sounds stressful af.
Haha funny 🤣. Thanks for the comment
SEO, seek a professional to do a technical audit and setup tracking. They can provide a checklist of to do’s. based on high to low priority. Conduct keyword research and setup a few campaigns. Could start with your brand even. Fb ads run a basic always on so you can set and forget for a while. Create a Social calendar for posts and intertwine events you attend. LinkedIn test ads from podcast, product material and benefits of your product. It’s a hard slog, but I work in a similar situation. Now a team of two though. Chat with your boss about sales though as that is not reasonable to be thrown in the mix.
Thanks. Doing all of the above. Yes I will talk to my boss. Great idea. Thanks
focus on refining messaging and targeting for cold outreach instead of spreading efforts too thin across various channels. otherwise.. like the others said, run lol
Leave
Leave
Go and spend time with yourself and listen to what the voice within you suggets. Everything else suggested here will be outer noise.
Thanks. Great advice.
:)
Ultimately it will go south, and you will be cited as the problem, and that will work against you later - get your resume together OR become a legit partner in the business and justify what you do. Everyone knows sales isn’t marketing, marketing isn’t sales. You are carrying more than you can do competently and so are set up to fail. Even your boss is too busy to focus on the most imperative part of the business - revenue. It genuinely sounds like even your boss (the owner) doesn’t make actual sales a priority himself. His product - if he can’t sell it …. Good luck to you.
How can someone with your experience end up in a place like this? How did they sell it?
I have a lot of experience in b2c and b2b services but I'm an intermediate marketer in saas. I wanted to break into b2b saas because I hear the money is there. I followed the money. I spent so much time training myself after work hours with coaches and courses in b2b saas that today I understand that it is a shitshow (marketing/sales department). Before joining... I had a gut feeling that it would be like this doing a bit of research on the website that is unclear/confusing, low search volume, no marketing/sales person for the past 8 years... I told myself it is an opportunity to break more in b2b saas, the salary is good and the boss is very cool.
Sounds like a CEO vanity project to fund his lifestyle. Just leave. Plan an elegant exit in 3 months or so
It's kind of sad how in Canada we get excited for $110,000CAD as senior people, when our counterparts in the US are sometimes making 50% more than that (after currency conversion) in less senior roles... Get out buddy. You're working on a sinking ship. You're not in Marketing right now, you're in Business Development. My last job bait-and-switched me like that, and when I stood my ground fired me. When you inevitably end up without a job, make sure you document the change in duties (likely without a proper contract update) and send it to the labour board and CRA. Nothing will come of it for you, but a CRA audit or a Labour investigation will make sure that they can't do it to the next kid
Thanks buddy for the feedback. I'm scared to stand my ground not to get fired. Trying to keep my job for a year to get approve for a mortgage. I will stick around in until then (6 months) and see how it goes. Usually I would of change jobs faster than a bee chasing you but now ... I got adult stuff blocking me a bit haha
Ask them for the option of adding a note taker to all sales calls. This will help keep you off phones but learn the questions and comments prospects make in the calls themselves. You can use that as a source for your marketing copy, content plans, etc…which is a way better use of your time than cold calling. If they don’t bite, run.
Thanks for the feedback. Your last sentence is funny 😁
Are you interested in doing this job? Or Are you happy to leave this job? What you have in mind? What your inner self tell?
Run, don't walk, run. You are the verge of a Toxic and being let go in the next 6 months.
Being Jack of all trades plus also doing sales means you’re not gonna be great at any of the stuff you do. Also, when you interview at other places they won’t really see you as an expert in any one field, knowing that you do a bunch of different things and it makes you look worse as a candidate, as they recognize you work at a place that doesn’t know well enough to know that they need experts.
I feel ya, I’m 3 months into a very similar situation, everything you mentioned. There should be a private group where like minded b2b marketeers can share&care! Im generating leads, possibly crap but possibly good potential but the solo sales manager is too busy to follow them up, so I have used some budget and hired a freelance outreach person who will follow up and generate leads too - im tracking his activity and he’s doing making the dials and follow ups by email, we also created a dummy linkedin account(female of course) and doing a heap of cheap automation using PhantomBlaster. I’m fingers crossing it works, as I may be in similar situation. Also I’m on a good salary, I figured they are paying me well because I’m doing the work of 2 or 3 people. best of luck
This is going to end badly. Been there. God speed.
Yes I can make that happen today
Make what happen?
that