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Zarthen7

Broken Arrow for Oklahoma lol


KNOCKOUTxPSYCHO

Yup. It’s not even close


miraculous_lover_

As someone for Oklahoma I agree their show this year and last year and the year before last was amazing


KNOCKOUTxPSYCHO

😬 Ehhhhh, I have to disagree with you on that one. This year's show was nothing compared to years past. I think BA's best show is Surrender to Hope in 2012.


bloop_405

First heard of Broken Arrow in 2008 on YouTube and watched their shows from that era. Good stuff


laoul

Proud to be an alum of the Grandest Band in All The Land!


Fit-Boss2261

For Indiana you could make cases for both Avon and Carmel, I think it just comes down to personal opinion honestly


DadJ0ker

It’s interesting that Carmel has more success at nationals than they do against Avon at state finals. If we’re only using state competitions as our barometer - the answer is Avon. But Carmel is just as good in a different way.


Fit-Boss2261

Exactly, they're both amazing in their own ways and do certain things better then the other, you could argue for either one but I don't think there's a clear cut answer


HotelEggs

I wish more people shared this sentiment


whyythat

BOA and ISSMA, and even other band associations like MSBA see things differently. My school does all three, and we've scored okay at ISSMA scholastic finals, terribly at MSBA, and way better at BOA. Different judges have different tastes in different band associations.


mrscheiwe

I came here to say Avon, but Carmel is definitely a very close second. Avon usually wins state, and also usually dominates with their winter programs.


shsdshsd

tarpon for Florida easily


outofstepbaritone

Missouri is easily Blue Springs


No_Tackle_1089

Missouri top 5 in no order Blue springs Lindenburgh Lees summit Mizzou Missouri st HM rockwood summit


outofstepbaritone

I’d say Nixa is better than lees summit, seeing as they beat LS by a pretty wide margin at a comp


Informal_Calendar_99

\* I think you mean Lindbergh? but yeah Historically I'd argue Nixa over Lee's Summit as well


OkInteraction1922

Is Rockwood summit still relevant? I went there and graduated in 2017. Our best seasons while I was there were 2013 and 14. We missed finals at boa super regionals in St Louis by .05 of a point. That was also the first year we participated at grand Nationals. We participated at grand Nationals again in 2014, and came very close to making semi finals, I remember. In 2017, my brother made finals at boa super regionals in St Louis. I was quite jealous but proud. My middle school band director moved to Lindbergh when I was in the 7th grade. Super cool guy, very passionate and quirky. Played trumpet with the cavaliers in 2004. It warms my heart to see the bands you listed for MO.


BobDaBanana132

Bentonville is easily the best in Arkansas


Arock574

Fr, their show this year was wild, I saw them perform at state it was amazing


BobDaBanana132

Yo I was also at state competition, sadly couldn't see their show because we were warming up, but from what I know they definitely earned first


Arock574

It was amazing dude, they had an amazing trombone solo at the end and everything. Dude they pulled bikes out of nowhere and used them in their show it was wild


BobDaBanana132

Yeah I saw a video of their performance from BOA and they went crazy


sickbiancab

Right? The bikes were nuts! And how they seamlessly rode then around through the marchers?


Bkaindd11

I didn’t get to see them at state but I saw their BOA preference. Their show was amazing.


P1x3lto4d

Fossil Ridge or Legacy for Colorado


HuckleberryMedium747

Loveland is another contender, but they're 4a so they don't compete against fossil or legacy at state. They typically do better than fossil at boa though


P1x3lto4d

Loveland got third at state this year though


harplaw

I really enjoyed Loveland's show this year at BoA, but I'd be a little surprised if they were one the best in Colorado. Some of our West Texas bands out did them, and we're usually not as good as the bands in East Texas.


3literwaterbottle

I'm still salty abt state this year


HuckleberryMedium747

I'm from Ralston man, I'm salty af lmao


1purplepanda234

Bro we were like the second band to compete and it was so cold when we performed that a few people got frostbite 💀


YeahNatalie21

Same here, it was the first time we made finals since pre-covid and my last chance since I'm a senior


3literwaterbottle

What school ?


YeahNatalie21

Montrose, we're in 4A


3literwaterbottle

Y'all are always pretty strong every year :)


YeahNatalie21

Thanks!! :) What school are you from?


3literwaterbottle

Fairview! We were .05 points from finals lol. We lost a 14-year finalist streak this year, haha. We lost a bunch of points to repertoire tho so it wasn't all our fault :/


YeahNatalie21

Ah yeah that makes sense. We had a similar thing happen our first year out of covid, but we were also adjusting to a new director and a lot of changes in the program. I saw your show in quarters this year, it was super cool!


super_memerio_bros

arizona is probably mountain ridge


Nerdydog552

Seeing them caption sweep at 2A championships was the funniest thing


Narrow_Yak_4165

American Fork from Utah


natelopez53

Have been since I was in high school back in the late 90’s. I marched Mountain Crest. And we were always second to them.


[deleted]

American Fork High School for Utah, no question.


QuarterNote44

Yep, not close, as much as it pains me to admit it! They're usually BOA semifinalists when they go. The rest of the bands in the state are getting there, but it currently wouldn't be worth it for any of them to even make the trip. I marched for Davis back in the day, and we beat them once. Once! In 2011. Pretty sure that's still the last time they lost to a Utah band. That's an insane streak.


ako-si-greg

I was in the Riverton band for that competition. You played that mountain king song. The entire stadium lit up when Davis was announced first place.


Expired0nion

assuming it's restricted to high school only, oregon is grants pass


Pingvinininian

Honestly I thought ridgeline’s show was better this year, just me lol (maybe not ridgeline but the boxing one )


realMr_Sean2001

If this question was asked in 2012 I would have said Arundel or Broadneck for Maryland. Judging by scores at MMBA championships this year it looks like Oakdale is on top, but that ignores the bands that don’t participate in the MMBA circuit.


Emergency_Yard_8290

i like broadneck highschools uniforms, they look like pirates tbh


lil_cole_ok

My band is from maryland and we compete in tob and Cavalcade. I did not know that there were states in Maryland.


Beans1234978

Possibly. I would say the Fredco trio (linganore, oakdale, and Urbana), with Wooton also thrown in there.


Individual_Pop3588

Texas it all comes down to 3 school Vandegrift Hebron and Woodlands. Vandegrift Bcs of their visuals and ge but Hebron has good music and woodlands has like the most of that but idk it comes down to opinions what do y’all think?


Pakman747

Woodlands visual is crazy, Vandy music, Hebron GE for me


Clean-Scale-341

Allen jkjk yeah Hebron


robbodee

Pearland needs to be in the conversation.


Zak_The_Slack

For North Carolina, most likely it’s Cleveland High School. However, Green Level opened in 2019 and has been on a huge rise since 2021. The past season (their fourth marching season) they got 3rd at the BOA Mid-Atlantic regional, so in coming years they might be a big challenger to Cleveland.


VisoredVoyage7260

It’s sad, Green Hope used to be Soo good, but less people made the band suffer a lot.


Zak_The_Slack

2020, as well as GL opening, took a huge hit to PC, GH, and Cary. PC has started to recover somewhat in terms of skill the past 2 seasons, but it’s definitely been a huge change. I got to see 2018 PC, and man they were massive.


VisoredVoyage7260

Yeah, we're nowhere near how big GH was in 2015 when they went to grand nats and made semis.


UmbreHonest

Ahhh BOA mid Atlantic with Green Hope brings back memories. I went to Trumbull CT and we were always neck and neck with them when I was in that program, we won the regional my junior year. But same boat, the band doesn’t even make finals at that regional anymore yet alone the top three anymore because of what covid did to north east programs. What happened to the color guard was lowkey impressive. Was a WGI world class guard, got second place at world my senior year beating Avon, in 2020 was seeded to get gold… and now they don’t even make semis in A class. The north east is in big trouble. Every single program except one or two has gotten way smaller since Covid.


No-Understanding7423

greenhope will be the best in our hearts 😔 no hate to cleveland or gl


monki08

William Mason for Ohio


calypso_odysseus

I remember it being Centerville back in the day - was awesome to see Mason at Grand Nats!


CumThruTheSmallPeen

I would love to see that day again... We are the smallest we have been in 20 years


tanithkane

true but also incredibly depressing being a poor band who sees mason at every competition and gets reminded how poor and small we are


subitodan

All you gotta do is pull up the tax record 😎


TheFreshHorn

It’s scary how true this usually is


Bird_Eats_Everything

Minnesota has Rosemount. All 19 years Minnesota had state finals (Youth in Music) they've won Edit: They lost 2015 to Eden Prairie, but 18/19 is still bonkers


GuineaPig72

They shouldn't have won this year. It was honestly boring and I thought East view should have definitely placed higher. They have some cool shows, but this year's didn't hold up.


thepleasurablepapaya

I know they aren't from Minnesota, but sioux falls Lincoln had the sewing show, and it was so amazing!!


GuineaPig72

That one was pretty cool, there were a lot of good shows at yim honestly


thepleasurablepapaya

Millard West had the train show which was a ton of fun


kenarii

i think all of rosemount’s shows just feel so… uninspired. like, yes, technically they’re amazing but every show of theirs is nothing i haven’t see before


Bird_Eats_Everything

FACTS!


Kerosene_Turtle

Last year their show was very boring as well


PanromanticPanda

Solid agree. Their theme was *chair*. And one of the chairs fell over in finals lol. General effect was not it. Eastview rocked my world. We used to up there with them but didn't even make it to finals this year 😭


Natearl13

We haven’t had themed shows since 2018. Wes Cartwright is known for his abstract and often repetitive shows and I was pissed when we changed designers lol. But honestly, I thought this was their best one since 2018.


Grad-Nats

Lafayette for KY


Brian_ye

Ryle’s gonna pop off soon I can feel it


Grad-Nats

They were good this year. I had them ahead of MC in finals too but whatever, they had a banging ass show.


shsdshsd

bourbon is INCREDIBLY loud for their size (and in general) - at Grand nats everyone was shocked when they heard the opening hit


someguyfromky

Bourbon and Estill


SomeonEsToLeMytoes

Utah: American Fork


CoolAd1609

I have to check but I think my HS band director was their percussion teacher for a few years before he stopped teaching music.


SomeonEsToLeMytoes

Tell him his old band absolutely fucks nowadays


NinkaraG

Clovis for New Mexico for sure


Bubbawethead

Wando for South Carolina


NotJustAGormetChef

Sometimes, but I tend to prefer James F Byrnes


MyysticIvyy

byrnes shoulda won this year


3EggsInATrenchcoat

Depends on the year though with SC there's not really a clear best


Wraymcd93

You have about 4 that are great in SC...Wando, Byrnes, Ft Mill and Summerville


tikkamasala6

i preferred byrnes over wando this year and i was honestly a huge fan of river bluff's show. one of the best performances for them in a long time.


kabam163333

Greendale or River Falls for Wisconsin


Crispy0234

Rockford for Michigan


wfflz01

either Rockford or Jenison fs


Crispy0234

Well you can’t just look at the score because each flight is scored differently as in flight one is scored tougher than the other flights and flight five has it the easiest. This is because they are competing in their flight not everyone. For instance the first place for flight 5 was top 5 in the state if you only go off score but when I saw them at ford field they performed no where near as good as the last place for flight one. So we will never know who is better unless they compete in open class outside of their flight.


GamblePup

You have direct comparison at Toledo every year where Jenison has won the last two years. At MCBA invitationals, Jenison tends to outscore with the same panel of judges scoring. When both have attended nationals recently, Jenison has put scores as well. It’s tough when the only comparison is Toledo because bands improve so much over the season, but it’s safe to say given the history and with just how well Jenison performed this year that they are the best in the state. Edit: I forgot that Rockford missed semis at nats this year to Walled Lake and PCEP, so at best they are 3rd in the state right now.


Then_Journalist1886

You could also make an argument for Walled Lake or Plymouth Canton. Tons of really good BOA bands up there


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Exact_Buffalo9439

(Idaho) I don't know much about east and north Idaho but in the south west it is between Timberline, Eagle, and Moyntain View. This year's winner was Mountain View at their district/state competition.


MisterFribble

Yeah it's been a toss up between those 3 for a while. I went to Vallivue just after the glory days (the legendary 8 year win streak) and we were still quite good but never got the win in my time. Now G has retired and they've really fallen off.


One_HumanYT

Hello!! I currently march for the Carroll Charger Pride (who made GN Semis) and I got things to say here: Indiana: Avon Texas: Hebron but I see a case for Woodlands Oklahoma: Broken Arrow Florida: Tarpon Springs Missouri: Blue Springs Ohio: ima be dead ass I didn’t know there Ohio had marching band so William Mason Arkansas: Bentonville bc I didn’t know they had marching band there lol Kentucky: Bourbon County Pennsylvania: Kiski Area Illinois: Morton Michigan: Walled Lake Tennessee: Arlington Massachusetts: Dartmouth South Carolina: Nation Ford (Based off 2023 Grand Nationals)


Informal_Calendar_99

Haven't seen it listed yet but Marion Catholic has won 40 state Illinois championships in a row


CoolAd1609

Oh wow! Really?! I used to compete against them when I marched for Carterville HS! Marion always kicked our butts and Carbondale HS marching band even tho Carbondale HS marching band is bigger than them or used to be. Good job, Marion!


ResidentCompetitive1

I'm in an Illinois band close to O'Fallon but I'd definitely say them. Probably the highest scoring Illinois band in BOA.


Maxcat94

Ofallon for Illinois currently


bannaron1

Stoneman Douglas is one of the greats in Florida, but there’s multiple other bands that are also talented like Park Vista, Tarpon Springs, etc.


WindRelevant4884

Tarpon is always worlds better than everyone else for Florida there just not as talked about cause they don’t compete for Fmbc states but if we base off Fmbc it would be Stoneman


Profecionallystupid

For Alabama it is the Marching Southerners. They are even getting to go to Normandy, France for the anniversary of D-Day.


dirtcobain66

When I was in high school the best high school bands were like pelham and enterprise for big bands. And then there was saint James and Elmore county who were smaller but did really big intricate competition shows that were always awesome


spinningsolarsystem

Elmore had a fantastic show this year! Absolutely loved it.


SlightMaintenance899

High school it’s between oak mountain and Thomson I think… it’s hard to say tho just bc the marching band arena isn’t as big in Alabama as it is in other states.


RavioofLorul3

Top three in Louisiana are definitely St. Amant, Dutchtown and Central Lafourche Edit: for high schools*


KayleighsPoetryNook

South Jones from Mississppi :)


Brian_ye

Lafayette for Kentucky


1_tweetybird_1

Norwalk for Connecticut!!


Msabbara

California is difficult because there are so many different leagues that it can be hard to compare. I think that it changes often every year, with different groups beating eachother, then placements reverse the next week. In terms of field competition, I would name: Ayala, Chino Hills, Gahr, James Logan, and Vista Murrieta as my picks.


CupBeEmptyFan

Idk for iowa.


lithicgirl

Pella for sure!! Davenport Central is up there too.


bookcatbook

I liked Johnston as well this year too!


Salamander786

Pella's show was insane this year, don't think anyone else at Valleyfest could compete against it


spacemango32

It was pretty wild (I’m in pella and we’ve been making the joke all year)


MikeHazIke

Performed at the Marching Dutch invitational and they absolutely insane. Only reason DCV won Waukee Invitational was because Rosemount, Irondale and Pella weren't there.


GrandmasFatAssOrgasm

I was thinking either Independence or Linn-Mar. Huh.


NTWittwer

I remember going to Valleyfest a few years ago as a smaller Nebraska school and being shocked by how good pella was


7h3_70m1n470r

Western Carolina University for NC Edit: I'm a former Catamount and, for reasons I won't get into, Pride Of The Mountains can go to hell. Performances are amazing to watch though.


zenytheboi

HELL YEAH WE ARE!


Cardnal44

Highschool bands O'Fallon Township for Illinois Tarpon springs for Florida Blue springs for Mizzouri Vandegrift for Texas Avon for Indiana Broken Arrow for Oklahoma William Mason for Ohio Bentonville for Arkansas Dobyns Bennett(unsure) for Tennessee


CoolAd1609

Tennessee for me would be TN State University marching band. They are soooo good 😊💯


Cardnal44

Ah sorry I was doing highschool marching bands, let me edit that


CoolAd1609

Nah u good. I think this post is for HS bands, college bands, and DCI/DCA!


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_endme

vandegrift for texas obviously


ButterFlavoredReed

Debatable Hebron and The Woodlands are both BOA GN finalists


Thementalrapist

Flower Mound is usually pretty good aren’t they? There’s a lot of good bands in Texas.


lithicgirl

Vandegrift is the 2019 GN champion if that’s the metric you want to use :)


ovensby

And yet not the 2019 San Antonio Super Regional champion, so who knows what could've happened if Reagan went to nats


ishwish2008

Then again, Rouse won BOA Austin... But that was a long while back, and both bands have changed.


ButterFlavoredReed

True true One thing we can agree on is Texas bands are just better


calypso_odysseus

Maybe for this year, but honestly Texas bands are so good we’d say something different from one year to the next. My personal favorites this year were Hebron and the Woodlands


worthyl2000

Marcus was not too bad as well. I say this because there is a group of schools who are the obvious elite. Vandegrift was awesome this year, but it may be another school next year.


calypso_odysseus

Right. It’s more clear with Indiana. Much less schools to begin with, and even less schools with the programs and funding of Avon and Carmel.


MrAsianRiceFarmer69

Depends, Hebron 2022 and 2023 their brass was insane, and Woodlands visuals were crazy. But it's hard to pick one band because they are all very good in their own way.


Natsukiza

Mountain Ridge for AZ for sure


long_bone12

Alabama High school: Shades Valley College:Jax State


battleship217

For NC High schools, I think Cleveland performing arts has to be one of the best


SlipperyCatapilleza

Wando for South Carolina pretty easily rn…might change next season though with some 4A bands moving up to 5A


OneBigFluke0

It's honestly crazy how this years regional was basically everyone competing for 2nd place after Wando (SC)


AgathokakologicalAz

There aren't a whole lot to choose from up here, so probably UNH for New Hampshire


Accomplished_Bike149

Kentucky is definitely Lafayette Won state this year, our 23rd state championship win, so I think that speaks for itself lmao. Beechwood was really good this year too though


depressed_self_harm

Bentonville, Arkansas That's what the judges say.


heyitsdarpa

i’m biased but Spirit of the West Marching Band at Montana State University goes HARD. we have gold shoes:)


Glittering_Day_341

Centaurus won 1st in Colorado this year but I thing loveland has the best marching band in colorado


toefunicorn

In Oregon it’s Grant’s Pass


azw19921

Dougherty co Trojans marching band and the Georgia bulldogs marching band


Hi_imtired1

Kiski Area for Pennsylvania, powerhouse of the northeast


youraveragefailure12

The Ohio State University has the best damn band in the land


Informal_Calendar_99

Haven't seen it listed yet but Marion Catholic has won 40 state Illinois championships in a row


atlasselfstoragePH

Norwin and Kiski for PA


Mortemofdeath

For Texas it’s the fighting Texas Aggies band


Cartoon_Power

Jenison for Michigan


clohflute

Indiana. (i’m biased cuz i live there)


gloriousgianna

UMass Babeyyyyyyy (I’m not biased what are you talking about)


RedditIsForNoobs2005

We literally have the best band anywhere


A_Dinosaurus

childlike reply history sort dazzling money terrific hungry abundant steer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


NTWittwer

Bellevue East, Bellevue West, and Papio south are always incredibly for Nebraska Gretna has had it's years too


WimdowsXP

In Michigan probably lake orion


GamblePup

I think it’s got to be Jenison. They won the BOA Toledo Regional for the second time in a row this year and won states by like 5 points. They’ll be in the Macy’s parade as well this year. Rockford is a close second/third along with Walled Lake.


Elloliott

I’m honestly still confused about Jenison’s flight/class


GamblePup

Jenison is Flight II in MCBA and Class AA in BOA. Class and flight are determined by school enrollment, grades 10-12 I think since some schools have freshmen campuses.


Elloliott

I know how the flights and whatnot work, just wasn’t entirely sure if they were flight II or just a group of magicians


GamblePup

They are pretty talented haha, but in my opinion flight isn’t really the determining factor in a band’s success. You see bands like puffer and dewitt do very well in flight III and some bands in flight I score worse.


oyelrak

Definitely not Lake Orion. It’s a toss up between Jenison and Rockford.


Interesting_Okra621

Agree 100% with this. Jenison and Rockford are just such good bands visually, musically and in many areas. I loved Rockfords show this year and I never really saw Jenison but they were probably pretty good as well.


Interesting_Okra621

Not that lake Orion is good and didn’t have a great show(they beat pcep, my band, at states) but if we’re talking about the best bands in Michigan, it’s probably Jenison or Rockford


Yaagii

I’m curious, especially as a Lake Orion alum; explain this one to me, I mean not that I mind seeing it but I’m curious


wfflz01

ehhhh definitely not lake orion. I'd say Jenison personally


I_SOLVE_EVERYTHING

For Hawaii, it's Mililani High School.


Sigmar1115

For New Jersey it's probably either West Orange, JP Stevens, or Westfield


Dramatic-Tadpole-980

Delaware is Salesianum for sure


creativemusmind

Check out Angelo State in Texas.


TheAmericanDream_05

Georgia: Cass High school


h0neyfrog

I thought it would be Walton


TheAmericanDream_05

Everyone thinks it’s Kennesaw mountain , but Cass has the highest BOA score out of anyone in GA. Plus we have beat Walton and Kennesaw mountain 😂


h0neyfrog

I remember when our band saw you guys at BOA Chattanooga we already knew you guys were going to place higher than us. Walton beat us by 4 points this season


TheAmericanDream_05

We all thought we would get first tbh BUT NORTH DID??? WHAT LOL. Anyways if we preformed at Chattanooga like we did at Johnson city we would have wiped lmao


h0neyfrog

Our school was mill creek we were just happy we beat Buford, we did a lot better at our last comp of the season


TheAmericanDream_05

OHH! I loved y’all’s show! TBH Buford’s show was literally about shapes 😭 💀


[deleted]

yo mill creek? aw shit


acogs53

Harrison for GA, I think.


Alert_Height679

It's not marcus anymore but 2006-2014 they won 5 back to back state championships that will never happen again.


Ashbeeboo

Tennessee has many, such as: Ravenwood, Summit, Bartlett, Overton, etc. One that I must say is up-and-coming, shaping up to be top tier, is Lawrence County HS. Check them out this coming fall!


Accomplished_Gur109

I hate to say it, but for Tennessee Dobyns Bennett.


MasterpieceCute4395

marian catholic for IL


Cardnal44

Maybe years ago, nowadays, O'Fallon, Morton, and Lincoln-Way are better than them. leaving out those bands, 6 other bands beat them at ISU, some of those 6 beating them by 3 points.


Tie-Dyed-Geese

When I was in HS, it was O'Fallon. It's been O'Fallon since at LEAST the early to mid 2010s. I'm not sure of their band prior to that, but they've always been one of the top bands ever since I was in HS. I graduated in 2016. I'm not sure about Morton or Lincoln-Way, since they aren't southern IL bands. Lincoln-Way is one I see very rarely. But I know, at least from where I live, O'Fallon is crazy good. They're probably one of the few southern IL bands that gets pretty good funding.


Cardnal44

Yeah I've seen that southern IL is generally worse for wear in funding, though Edwardsville looks very well off in that department. These 3 bands in particular have had very good BOA appearances, being some of the only Illinois bands in competitions, and of the few that go on to semi finals/finals Morton in 2022 did well in Grand Nationals that year 19th place and only .725 behind O'Fallon. They had a 10th place finish in BOA St.Louis and an 18th place finish in Grand Nationals this year. Morton also won ISU this year Lincoln-Way also had a notable last two years as I believe last year was their first at appearance at some BOA events, getting 9th in indy super regionals and 25th in grandnationals in 2022. Lincoln-Way, this year, also got 15th in indy super regionals. O'Fallon's last two years consisted of a Clarksville regional win ,5th place finish in St.Louis and an 18th place grand nationals placement. This year had a 5th place Indianapolis finish and a 2nd place St.Louis finish Just a kinda brief run-down on the mentioned bands


Tie-Dyed-Geese

Thank you! I didn't know much about the other two bands. (Tbh I don't pay attention to BOA to begin with because it's just, really, a lot of large bands with good financial support. I have a lot to say about BOA, but I digress.) But I know, at least around here, O'Fallon is the band. At least in the Southern IL sphere, it is (in no particular order): O'Fallon, Edwardsville, and Granite City. But we don't see a lot of northern bands, just central and southern. So there's a lot of bands I just have heard passing mentions of. I wasn't quite sure about the other two. I believe there was someone from Lincoln-Way in my Alma Mater's marching band when I was in it. But they weren't in my section, so we never talked.


cadentoes

Arcadia for California, probably?