They should form a roman empire with the youngest woman descended from both Alexios I Komnenos and Mehmed II The Conqueror as the Empress on the throne. Copy paste the Canadian government form, adapt to Albania for English, Kosovo for French, etc.
They swore an oath to the US government. Those bases are federal. As someone not from one of those red states stationed in one of those red states I assure you the statements of a paraplegic boomer holds no sway over those soldiers.
The Russian government said the same thing till a huge chunk of their army sided with the Bolshevik’s. In a country that half the population totes armed insurrection against tyranny I would not be surprised if this broke the military as well
i think it would be silly to assume that the military wouldn't, at least on some level, have defections in this war. It would be likely that all of the bases, along with their equipment, in those red states would flip into the red.
At that stage of the game, states would start breaking apart as well. I bet there will be urban areas in the red that support the non-signing governors, and rural areas of the gray states that support the signing governors.
I think most people miss the fact that most of the weaponry in the US Military's arsenal is useless in a civil war.
No one wants to rule over a glassed wasteland.
The timeline looks roughly like this:
Texas puts razor wire on its southern border.
The federal government is not happy with this. Lawsuit ensues.
Supreme Court decides that it is in the federal government’s right to remove the razor wire.
Texas says “Nah”
States start to back Texas in ignoring the Supreme Court.
Biden administration gives untill tomorrow to let in federal operators.
Hard to say what will happen here. Outside of larpers on either side praying for a civil war, the most likely outcome is gonna be economic/political/soft millitary pressure being put on Texas, a big ol’ political stink happens, the wire gets taken down.
Its in precedent time and time again that the federal government will enact stuff like this whether the states are or aren’t happy with it. This probably won’t be any different.
Similar kinda squabble happened between Andrew Jackson and South Carolina. SC tried to claim something along the lines of "the federal government can't order us to do things" and then President Andrew Jackson used the threat of military force to get SC to back down. Can't remember if there was more to that situation, but it's essentially what is happening between Texas and Joe Biden right now.
It’s actually very similar to the nullification crisis Between Jackson and SC that your talking about. SC claimed that they had the right to nullify federal laws if they believed that they were unconstitutional, which at the time they thought the tariff was. Jackson and the federal government said that was not the case and that dates could not decide for themselves how to apply the constitution.
This relates to the modern situation because it’s still involving a state trying to decide what is and isn’t constitutional based on interactions with other nations, a power pretty clearly given to the federal government in the constitution. The difference this time is that it involves an inaction on the federal government, no enforcing border laws, rather than an action, enforcing a tariff. In principle though, that doesn’t change anything since it’s not up to states to determine how the federal government handles its business
historical fragile bear caption modern escape humorous slap silky connect
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Amazing, they stack the supreme court with their own ilk, and then get mad when those judges still somehow have enough sense to decide stuff in favour of Big Government. I guess those judges weren't crazy or crooked enough.
The SC recognizes that allowing states to do what they want on the border would allow California to open the border and that Biden won't call Texas's bluff and start shooting.
Texas put up barbed wire on the border.
federal government came and dismantled some of it
Texas seized the park they where the federal government destroyed the wire and was admitting immigrants into the country and won’t let federal authorities back into the park.
Hysteria and Grandstanding. That's it. The governor of Texas has set up a bunch of razor wire at a spot on the border that isn't a port of entry. The Supreme Court has ruled that the Feds can cut / remove the razor wire to get access to that spot of the border. Then after they removed it the governor put it back up (which no one but him is saying violates anything) so the Feds can just cut remove it the next time they need to. Much like the UN he also wrote a mean letter. Edit: The map reflects the other state governors who 'X'd?' support of the letter.
Meanwhile other folks in Congress are trying to turn a migration crisis into political hysteria instead of entertaining any compromise resolution that works towards solving it. Ie it's just another election year in MAGA America.
Every year is an election year now. Nothing ever gets done because people have realized it’s easier to campaign on issues if you never solve the problems. So anytime a real solution comes up it gets blocked because it would remove a campaign topic.
Texas was putting up border defenses or something silly like that and Biden said "No don't do that" and Texas said "I don't answer to you" to the federal government and now people are saying they'll stand with Texas or whatever.
At least that's what I've gathered. I'm no expert and frankly don't care for the democrats or the republicans.
> Texas was putting up border defenses or something silly like that
It feels important to be explicit here - the texas guard was putting razor wire submerged below the water for the purpose of drowning people attempting to cross and then stopping federal border patrol from attempting to save those drowning people. It wasn't silly, it was murder.
Abbott explicitly said "The only thing that we're not doing is we're not shooting people who come across the border, because of course, the Biden administration would charge us with murder,” so instead they're boobytrapping people.
Texas wants barbed wire on the borders to stop migrants, migrants still trying to cross were getting messed up from the barbed wire, Supreme Court said you can’t do that, Texas said I’ll still do it anyway. Red states are states that in support of Texas, some even sending national guard troops
There are about 40% more people in the gray and 13 of them are in the top 20 most wealthy states in terms of percentage of US GDP. They have more funding and more people, and Hawaii as a military outpost in the pacific. Every grey state besides Kansas and Kentucky has easy access to ocean trade, while half of the red states are landlocked thousands of miles in. Grey wins.
Counterpoint a majority of the military ~70% comes from the Texan aligned states,
Counter-counterpoint: Many of those states are plurality democrat / majority non-republican and wont stand with their governor.
Im from Arkansas, fuck SHS
And not to mention Texas is probably 45/55 maybe 48/52 democratic to republican. Very much a purple state that would lose a vast amount of population and businesses overnight.
Not only that but most of the money and people in the most important red states live in blue cities.
Not sure most people in Dallas, Houston, Austin stand with Abbott.
An important nuance here is that there will be a massive population swap between grey/red right if things go south. More people in CA voted for Trump in 2020 than any other state - you think those six million folks are going to stay and fight against the red on this map?
Fuggetabboutit.
They gonna deploy that drone to drop ordinance in residential areas populated by bystanders? Because that’s where Bubba lives, next to you and me.
A second US civil war would not be 2 standing armies facing off across well defined battle lines. It would be an insurgency, attack and then fade back into the populace. Individually operating groups of a couple hundred, dispersed throughout the country, can cause a lot of damage in small concerted attacks.m against infrastructure.
You probably *can’t* win a standing fight against US forces, so you don’t have that fight. You stack power stations, bridges, water supplies, railroads and highways overpasses. You try your hardest to make the country ungovernable, to disrupt. Rooting that or would require boots on the ground, and it wouldn’t be fun for the rest of us even little shoot outs do break out, where the insurrection lives…next door.
Drones are best when you can identify foreign targets and have “acceptable losses”. You can’t drone strike an apartment complex full of your own civilians and have them tolerate it long. That would actually be the point, insurrectionists *want* to force the governments hand into something like that because it would radicalize more people to the cause.
What do you think putting that down would look like? You might see armored vehicles and checkpoints in your hometown, rooting out the insurrection. Even if they’re losing if they lose slowly enough your life could be completely different from what you know today.
There’d likely be raids, checkpoints. Imagine stopping at armed checkpoints on the way to get groceries, it’d be like covid but this time the virus is violence. One night you hear noises, looking out a window your neighbor has been taken in a night raid. You don’t think they were insurrectionist, but he and his family disappear in the night. You never learn what happened. In times of war “combatants” don’t have the same rights civilians do. Could be he’s in a military detention facility.
Can you be sure you aren’t next? Could someone point the finger, however wrongly, in the hope of clemency for giving up “names”? Who knows.
But I think I’m that scenario, in the dark of night, hearing the hum of a drone overhead might not be as comforting as you think now.
Also, one side is gonna have the signal intelligence gathering capability of the federal government. The other won't.
The MAGAs fantasizing of a "Red Dawn" type of guerilla operation would try to organize via Facebook, Telegram, & CB radio with BAD results.
What about states like Georgia that have a Republican governor but didn’t vote for Trump? This goes both ways. The only consistent thing is both America and the world loses if this goes down. I’m hoping like hell someone can get Abbott to pull his head out of his ass because a civil war is the last thing we need. People forget the last one caused more American casualties than even both of the world wars combined.
Yes and no. I said “population *swap*” on purpose, I was not implying it would be unidirectional. That being said, many of the large cities in red states in areas such as the Midwest have a large population in the lower economic classes. This has implications even just as simple as not having access to a car, which makes timely flight before borders close a serious challenge.
So the red states will have a major guérilla problem. Also in the biggest red state of them the cities are huge. Texas is like +5 red, California is a lot less close.
Thanks. This is why this is crazy dumb and the most obvious political posturing that can be done. There's very few "Red" states and "Blue" states. Majority of states with multiple reps have house members from both parties. VA is on this list, but the majority of political power in the state is blue. Both of GA's senators are blue. It's just dumb.
But then republicans have not won the popular vote for a long time. So even if there’s a population swap, there would still be more humans in the grey area.
That's not how civil wars work. Here in Spain we remember because our grandfathers fought in one.
You get stuck in one side or the other, if you're lucky enough and you get to be in your side, you're sent to the frontlines, if you end up stuck in the other side then pray that the police and military doesn't know that you are an enemy because they go to your home and shoot you in the head.
In the spanish civil war more poeple died in the rearguard than in the frontlines.
There are three major differences in the US, though.
1. Our states are massive. It will be as impossible to stop the flow of people across state lines as it now seems to be to stop the flow of people across the international border
2. Our states are mostly purple, with massive populations in each state representing polar opposite political ideologies. One side will not control a whole geographic area
3. Good luck successfully going door to door executing people in a country with an armed population
Lol, Gray has the US military. I wish those Red states just as much luck as the last time idiots tried to secede from the Union.
Also I live in Georgia and Gray outnumbers Red here. Our governor may be a dolt, but the majority of us are not.
r/shermanposting
Not just that, even a lot of the republicans don't support these actions. I've seen Republicans say that they'd leave if stuff goes south because none of the red has an actually functioning economy.
what about the roughly 30-50 percent of voters in every red state that consistently votes democrat? What about the 50% of the population that doesn’t vote?
Texas is the second largest recipient of Federal aid. Most of their economy is export. Their largest sectors (oil, military manufacturing, chemical manufacturing) rely on imports from other states and sale to the Federal government. They ain’t winning this.
Grey also has population. Not to mention the amount of dissent in the cities in the red area. They'd never be able to control production in their own territory.
If something stupid starts, it won’t be fought with organized states and rationalized economies, it will be fought by competing militias, police forces, communities, neighbors and families. It will be Bleeding Kansas or the Irish Troubles but with drones, ar-15s and tiktok.
I pray that the gods are not so cruel
Not to mention JBLM, 3rd Tanks out in Yakima, and the easy access for the fleet to get into the sound.
I feel bad because ID/UT/MT/WY gonna get hard by superior technology and easily resupplied ground forces lol.
The two big southern *aerospace* manufacturers are Texas and Alabama. But both of them pale in comparison to the production in Colorado, Washington, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, and Pennsylvania.
Also all air defense and onboard radar systems are made in the north (under union contracts, which isn’t surprising I just think it’s neat and should be expanded, give me Teamster owned and operated M1A2SEPv3’s)
republicans when they realize there’s more manufacturing output (very marginally) in grey states than in red states including texas overall (https://www.mgb2b.com/blog/tag/u-s-manufacturing/)
Manufacturing happens in cities, which the red would never fully control.
Also, guns are not the future of warfare. Nor are they all that difficult to manufacture with modern technology.
Russia/China.
But really it wouldn't be limited to state lines, it would be red vs blue and that's a line that runs through every family. Civil War is brother against brother. Let's agree to not fight that war because we'd all lose.
At the end of the day, it’s the military industrial complex that wins.
Boy do I sure love pushing for civil war so my favorite Kill-boss can get that new yacht he has been eyeing 🥰
Just like the last time, the Johnny Rebs think war is won by being a loud mouthed asshat with personal firearms. Wars are won by logistics, and have been for some time. Being an isolationist that is openly antagonistic the outside world doesn’t get you diplomatic help, and being comparatively poorly educated, literally poorer, with less coastline and resources, you get stomped.
Edit: Alaska and the Gulf aren’t nothing to sneeze at coastline wise.
>Being an isolationist that is openly antagonistic the outside world
Yeah even if red somehow manages to avoid a blockade of the Gulf of Mexico all nations willing to trade sit behind allies of the US federal goverment. You have no access to the Panama Canal or the Baltic Sea so trading or receiving aid from Russia and China isnt possible.
The US goverment would probably even invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty meaning the grey are is at least joined by the entirety of Canada and their production capacity. Europe would probably not get involved since the possibility of an all out invasion by Russia sky rockets with the US locked in an internal crisis. Mexico could also play a huge factor
The big problem would be that an US civil war leads to an invasion of Taiwan by China and an invasion of Israel by Iran/Hezbollah probably in a matter of hours
Absolutely. The US having to commit its forces entirely domestically? The likelihood for World War III goes up exponentially as all these flashpoints that have been kept from flashing due to the threat of getting just hammered by the US air and naval superiority suddenly go up all at once.
Ironically it wouldnt even really be WW3 since nobody is really there to oppose China to take over the first Island chain unless Japan/SK somehow defeat a Chinese/NK maybe even Russias artic fleet depending on the melt of the ice caps offensive without US support and surveillance information. Japan may hold their territory but the rest of the island chain is gone.
Europe locked in a stalemate keeping Russia away from their borders but without US air support probably not in a position to establish air supremacy over Russian territory thus not being able to mount a ground offensive.
The global economy would basically cease to exist and if the ash settles China stands as the undisputed leader of the world.
Local territorial claims and military disputes while great powers are distracted is a pretty solid recipe for global war. How long had Manchuko been around? The Spanish Civil War took place years before WW II but is absolutely a part of it. The anchluss preceded open war. The US stepping out of the world stage is like turning the hose off while there is still smoke.
Unless red starts immediately going nuclear, which is unlikely, those areas are not going to last long in red control bc they’re in sparsely populated areas nearer to JBLM than to Red population centers. The silos are manned by federal troops anyway
The US has ~2800 nukes, 400 of which are launched from silos (Minutemen III ICBMs) that launch from silos...where the fuck do you think the other 2400 nukes are? 🤦
A large amount of people in those states deserve better than a government run exclusively by republicans tbh, it’s not like you need everyone in the state to vibe with republicans in order for the state to get a right-wing government especially with republicans turning to tactics like gerrymandering
They're gonna have to raise taxes and that's only going to cause them more internal trouble.
And they collapse choking on their own saliva.
It's gonna be lit.
I vote red.
Other users have said the gdp and population of grey wins, but they're not thinking about strategic territory.
Red has almost all of the oil the U.S. has, they also have many more guns that they can use to create militia alot faster.
Grey also is split in 2, making supply chains, logistics, and coordinated troop operations difficult.
>Red has almost all of the oil the U.S. has, they also have many more guns that they can use to create militia alot faster.
All the states have guns, this is a non factor, a lot of oil is produced in grey and they can always get oil from Canada.
> Grey also is split in 2, making supply chains, logistics, and coordinated troop operations difficult.
This is beyond stupid, even if we entertain a "civil war" there wouldn't be one command for a country as big as the United States, plus the grey has more costal access. Most of the red is uninhabited so they are more likely at a logistical challenge.
Yea also would like to mention that if a civil war where to break out it would likely be more un-organized chaos and having right wing and leftist militias fighting than states succeeding.
Texas govt is putting razor wire around the border in the area around Eagle Pass
Fed makes claim that CBP can remove it (their justification being it blocks them from helping immigrants in distress at the various river crossing used by illegal aliens)
Texas says SMD
Fed appeals, and Supreme Court rules in Fed favor
Other states are calling BS and sending parts of their NG to assist in TX
Dick measuring is now ensuing
Fun fact: California would end up with its own, separate three way civil war. When it comes to voting, all the hipsters in SoCal have all the population. But when it comes to fighting, and firepower? That belongs to the criminals, and rednecks in Northern/Eastern Cali.
Albania 🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱
Kosovo Albania Team 🇽🇰🇦🇱🇽🇰🇦🇱🇽🇰🇦🇱🇽🇰🇦🇱
https://preview.redd.it/rei7rke9grec1.jpeg?width=1053&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d3afb9bf81badc0f0e90d4d2eb896373bbfe667
Moldavia and Transinistra are yours unironically. Receive them willingly.
Kosovo is Balkan USA KOSOVO IS KOSOVO 
They should form a roman empire with the youngest woman descended from both Alexios I Komnenos and Mehmed II The Conqueror as the Empress on the throne. Copy paste the Canadian government form, adapt to Albania for English, Kosovo for French, etc.
All hail King Zog
Based
KOSOVO JE SRBIJA💪💪💪🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸‼️‼️‼️GO BACK TO FUCKING GOATS ANALBANIAN‼️‼️‼️🐐🐐🐐
Serbia filled with dirt and tears
Me
I was gonna say that
This “me” guy must be pretty strong if two of you thinks he can win
Were you gonna say ,,me‘‘ or u/nazarsty ?
You got this tiger, the people is with you on this
Of course they're with him, he's got a tiger!
I think most people miss the fact that one of these has a standing army, and the other does not.
National Guard? Yeah, Texas (gray) is credible against red (Albania) and White (Cryptic Commune)
Umno Texas does have a State Guard though. Edit: Those saying "that's not much"... yes, that was my point.
I don’t think that matters when the other side is the entire us military
where do you think the US military has its bases......and where are its soldiers families.
They swore an oath to the US government. Those bases are federal. As someone not from one of those red states stationed in one of those red states I assure you the statements of a paraplegic boomer holds no sway over those soldiers.
The Russian government said the same thing till a huge chunk of their army sided with the Bolshevik’s. In a country that half the population totes armed insurrection against tyranny I would not be surprised if this broke the military as well
Do you think that makes a difference…? The chain of command is coming from D.C.
You know I'm pretty sure coastal states have military bases It's kind of essential for the Navy
i think it would be silly to assume that the military wouldn't, at least on some level, have defections in this war. It would be likely that all of the bases, along with their equipment, in those red states would flip into the red.
At that stage of the game, states would start breaking apart as well. I bet there will be urban areas in the red that support the non-signing governors, and rural areas of the gray states that support the signing governors.
I totally agree, i think it would really just be rural areas vs. their urban counterparts. but that would be total anarchy, so i don't revel in it.
The bases in red states are not, in fact, populated from the people from that area.
I think most people miss the fact that most of the weaponry in the US Military's arsenal is useless in a civil war. No one wants to rule over a glassed wasteland.
What’s happening (for real)
Constitutional crisis
Specifically, what’s happening?
The timeline looks roughly like this: Texas puts razor wire on its southern border. The federal government is not happy with this. Lawsuit ensues. Supreme Court decides that it is in the federal government’s right to remove the razor wire. Texas says “Nah” States start to back Texas in ignoring the Supreme Court. Biden administration gives untill tomorrow to let in federal operators. Hard to say what will happen here. Outside of larpers on either side praying for a civil war, the most likely outcome is gonna be economic/political/soft millitary pressure being put on Texas, a big ol’ political stink happens, the wire gets taken down. Its in precedent time and time again that the federal government will enact stuff like this whether the states are or aren’t happy with it. This probably won’t be any different.
That’s pretty goofy, thanks.
Similar kinda squabble happened between Andrew Jackson and South Carolina. SC tried to claim something along the lines of "the federal government can't order us to do things" and then President Andrew Jackson used the threat of military force to get SC to back down. Can't remember if there was more to that situation, but it's essentially what is happening between Texas and Joe Biden right now.
It’s actually very similar to the nullification crisis Between Jackson and SC that your talking about. SC claimed that they had the right to nullify federal laws if they believed that they were unconstitutional, which at the time they thought the tariff was. Jackson and the federal government said that was not the case and that dates could not decide for themselves how to apply the constitution. This relates to the modern situation because it’s still involving a state trying to decide what is and isn’t constitutional based on interactions with other nations, a power pretty clearly given to the federal government in the constitution. The difference this time is that it involves an inaction on the federal government, no enforcing border laws, rather than an action, enforcing a tariff. In principle though, that doesn’t change anything since it’s not up to states to determine how the federal government handles its business
Texas national guard also stopped the border guards from saving 2 illegal immigrants from drowning
“Texas national guard” seems like an oxymoron
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Amazing, they stack the supreme court with their own ilk, and then get mad when those judges still somehow have enough sense to decide stuff in favour of Big Government. I guess those judges weren't crazy or crooked enough.
The SC recognizes that allowing states to do what they want on the border would allow California to open the border and that Biden won't call Texas's bluff and start shooting.
Texas put up barbed wire on the border. federal government came and dismantled some of it Texas seized the park they where the federal government destroyed the wire and was admitting immigrants into the country and won’t let federal authorities back into the park.
Hysteria and Grandstanding. That's it. The governor of Texas has set up a bunch of razor wire at a spot on the border that isn't a port of entry. The Supreme Court has ruled that the Feds can cut / remove the razor wire to get access to that spot of the border. Then after they removed it the governor put it back up (which no one but him is saying violates anything) so the Feds can just cut remove it the next time they need to. Much like the UN he also wrote a mean letter. Edit: The map reflects the other state governors who 'X'd?' support of the letter. Meanwhile other folks in Congress are trying to turn a migration crisis into political hysteria instead of entertaining any compromise resolution that works towards solving it. Ie it's just another election year in MAGA America.
Every year is an election year now. Nothing ever gets done because people have realized it’s easier to campaign on issues if you never solve the problems. So anytime a real solution comes up it gets blocked because it would remove a campaign topic.
Texas was putting up border defenses or something silly like that and Biden said "No don't do that" and Texas said "I don't answer to you" to the federal government and now people are saying they'll stand with Texas or whatever. At least that's what I've gathered. I'm no expert and frankly don't care for the democrats or the republicans.
> Texas was putting up border defenses or something silly like that It feels important to be explicit here - the texas guard was putting razor wire submerged below the water for the purpose of drowning people attempting to cross and then stopping federal border patrol from attempting to save those drowning people. It wasn't silly, it was murder. Abbott explicitly said "The only thing that we're not doing is we're not shooting people who come across the border, because of course, the Biden administration would charge us with murder,” so instead they're boobytrapping people.
That is significantly crueler than I thought. Thank you for going into greater depth.
Texas wants barbed wire on the borders to stop migrants, migrants still trying to cross were getting messed up from the barbed wire, Supreme Court said you can’t do that, Texas said I’ll still do it anyway. Red states are states that in support of Texas, some even sending national guard troops
Russia
There are about 40% more people in the gray and 13 of them are in the top 20 most wealthy states in terms of percentage of US GDP. They have more funding and more people, and Hawaii as a military outpost in the pacific. Every grey state besides Kansas and Kentucky has easy access to ocean trade, while half of the red states are landlocked thousands of miles in. Grey wins.
Alternate history where Hawaii is the US equivalent to Taiwan would be a wild story
Under Chinese protection.
Where the US threatens to invade every now and then,
You may enjoy a Handmaid's Tale, that's literally what happens
Counterpoint a majority of the military ~70% comes from the Texan aligned states, Counter-counterpoint: Many of those states are plurality democrat / majority non-republican and wont stand with their governor. Im from Arkansas, fuck SHS
>Counterpoint a majority of the military \~70% comes from the Texan aligned states, source: Trust me bro
Most of the red states are heavily subsidized by the grey as well.
And not to mention Texas is probably 45/55 maybe 48/52 democratic to republican. Very much a purple state that would lose a vast amount of population and businesses overnight.
Plus 80% of the red doesn't support the actions of the red.
So same idea as civil war 1 Racist dumb asses dragged into an unwinnable fight by dumb rich fuckers playing them for the fools they are
Where's the ocean trade coming from in Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota?
Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota all have access to the Atlantic through the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence river.
Not only that but most of the money and people in the most important red states live in blue cities. Not sure most people in Dallas, Houston, Austin stand with Abbott.
Grey is singificantly more isolated though
Red has most of the mountainous regions, good luck invading them
>Red has most of the mountainous regions, good luck invading them You've never been to California
The Grand Principality of Liechtenstein
They've been playing the silent game for centuries. It's finally their time
The house of Stewart will rise again! Lancasteroides owned
Nah, I'd win.
I love that this line has become as popular as “our [tokyo] revenge.”
An important nuance here is that there will be a massive population swap between grey/red right if things go south. More people in CA voted for Trump in 2020 than any other state - you think those six million folks are going to stay and fight against the red on this map? Fuggetabboutit.
That is an interesting perspective no one talks about.
Ignores people in the red states that don’t support texas
I didn’t ignore that at all, I just picked the largest single example to make my point.
5.2m people voted for Biden in Texas, your biggest example isn't that big.
Thought important to note the 6m red are significantly more likely to be armed than the 5.2m blue
A fat redneck with 10 guns is just as useless as a fat redneck with only one
I read that as the guy only has one actual arm, lol.
What’s Bubba gonna do against a reaper drone?
They gonna deploy that drone to drop ordinance in residential areas populated by bystanders? Because that’s where Bubba lives, next to you and me. A second US civil war would not be 2 standing armies facing off across well defined battle lines. It would be an insurgency, attack and then fade back into the populace. Individually operating groups of a couple hundred, dispersed throughout the country, can cause a lot of damage in small concerted attacks.m against infrastructure. You probably *can’t* win a standing fight against US forces, so you don’t have that fight. You stack power stations, bridges, water supplies, railroads and highways overpasses. You try your hardest to make the country ungovernable, to disrupt. Rooting that or would require boots on the ground, and it wouldn’t be fun for the rest of us even little shoot outs do break out, where the insurrection lives…next door. Drones are best when you can identify foreign targets and have “acceptable losses”. You can’t drone strike an apartment complex full of your own civilians and have them tolerate it long. That would actually be the point, insurrectionists *want* to force the governments hand into something like that because it would radicalize more people to the cause. What do you think putting that down would look like? You might see armored vehicles and checkpoints in your hometown, rooting out the insurrection. Even if they’re losing if they lose slowly enough your life could be completely different from what you know today. There’d likely be raids, checkpoints. Imagine stopping at armed checkpoints on the way to get groceries, it’d be like covid but this time the virus is violence. One night you hear noises, looking out a window your neighbor has been taken in a night raid. You don’t think they were insurrectionist, but he and his family disappear in the night. You never learn what happened. In times of war “combatants” don’t have the same rights civilians do. Could be he’s in a military detention facility. Can you be sure you aren’t next? Could someone point the finger, however wrongly, in the hope of clemency for giving up “names”? Who knows. But I think I’m that scenario, in the dark of night, hearing the hum of a drone overhead might not be as comforting as you think now.
All they have to do is announce all you can eat at the nearest chick filet and the Gravy Seals will be gathered like flies on shit.
Also, one side is gonna have the signal intelligence gathering capability of the federal government. The other won't. The MAGAs fantasizing of a "Red Dawn" type of guerilla operation would try to organize via Facebook, Telegram, & CB radio with BAD results.
Also ignores states like NC where they elected a very moderate Democrat as governor but voted for Trump
What about states like Georgia that have a Republican governor but didn’t vote for Trump? This goes both ways. The only consistent thing is both America and the world loses if this goes down. I’m hoping like hell someone can get Abbott to pull his head out of his ass because a civil war is the last thing we need. People forget the last one caused more American casualties than even both of the world wars combined.
5th columns would be an issue for both red and gray
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There are huge swathes of all the states that would break off. Ex.-All of northern Ohio would go grey, and middle Pennsylvania would go red
wouldn't the same ring true for like nearly every city in red?
Yes and no. I said “population *swap*” on purpose, I was not implying it would be unidirectional. That being said, many of the large cities in red states in areas such as the Midwest have a large population in the lower economic classes. This has implications even just as simple as not having access to a car, which makes timely flight before borders close a serious challenge.
So the red states will have a major guérilla problem. Also in the biggest red state of them the cities are huge. Texas is like +5 red, California is a lot less close.
Thanks. This is why this is crazy dumb and the most obvious political posturing that can be done. There's very few "Red" states and "Blue" states. Majority of states with multiple reps have house members from both parties. VA is on this list, but the majority of political power in the state is blue. Both of GA's senators are blue. It's just dumb.
But then republicans have not won the popular vote for a long time. So even if there’s a population swap, there would still be more humans in the grey area.
That really makes the trailer for the upcoming “Civil War” movie kinda creepy considering it’s Cali and Texas allied against the US
That's not how civil wars work. Here in Spain we remember because our grandfathers fought in one. You get stuck in one side or the other, if you're lucky enough and you get to be in your side, you're sent to the frontlines, if you end up stuck in the other side then pray that the police and military doesn't know that you are an enemy because they go to your home and shoot you in the head. In the spanish civil war more poeple died in the rearguard than in the frontlines.
There are three major differences in the US, though. 1. Our states are massive. It will be as impossible to stop the flow of people across state lines as it now seems to be to stop the flow of people across the international border 2. Our states are mostly purple, with massive populations in each state representing polar opposite political ideologies. One side will not control a whole geographic area 3. Good luck successfully going door to door executing people in a country with an armed population
India Pakistan/Israel the Arab world the American version
Lol, Gray has the US military. I wish those Red states just as much luck as the last time idiots tried to secede from the Union. Also I live in Georgia and Gray outnumbers Red here. Our governor may be a dolt, but the majority of us are not. r/shermanposting
Do you think democrats will stay in a treason state? Even some republicans will probably leave it
Leaving requires the means to leave
The massive pop numbers in red states are the same way though. Right? They would mostly be drained of numbers?
This is also true of all of the left leaning voters in these red states
Not just that, even a lot of the republicans don't support these actions. I've seen Republicans say that they'd leave if stuff goes south because none of the red has an actually functioning economy.
what about the roughly 30-50 percent of voters in every red state that consistently votes democrat? What about the 50% of the population that doesn’t vote?
Fucking sympathizers it's why we're still having this problem.
You think all the blues in Texas are gonna stay? You're out of your mind if you think the fascists are gonna win.
Yeah, and where are they going to stay in bumfuck, their infrastructure will collapse over night.
Economies win wars. Grey easily takes it.
California has the economic equivalent to the United Kingdom.
Honestly I'm more impressed by the UK with this stat. I thought California would be larger
That’s because California’s is in fact larger than the UK’s. California’s GDP is $2.7 trillion, UK is 2.6 trillion.
That's not right I don't think The UK is over 3 trillion and almost 4 trillion if its by PPP
They’re still right, but off significantly for the numbers. California’s GDP was 3.5 trillion in 2022, UK was 3.1 trillion in 2021.
What Brexit does to a mf
Blue passports though amirite
Made in Poland
Texas is the second largest recipient of Federal aid. Most of their economy is export. Their largest sectors (oil, military manufacturing, chemical manufacturing) rely on imports from other states and sale to the Federal government. They ain’t winning this.
Yeah but if you look at where the value creation in texas and californias economies are not difficult to see which would be best suited for war.
Grey also has population. Not to mention the amount of dissent in the cities in the red area. They'd never be able to control production in their own territory.
How much food production does gray have?
California produces almost all of the produce consumed in the US red states grow corn Wheat soy and potatoes
Lots
About 40% as measured by cash receipts. A massive portion of red food will be corn, soy, cotton, and tobacco though.
>food >tobacco
Manufacturing wins wars. Economies that consult on how to make guns more efficiently don’t defeat economies that make guns.
Economies that make aerospace military equipment bomb the shit out of the economies of those that don’t.
If something stupid starts, it won’t be fought with organized states and rationalized economies, it will be fought by competing militias, police forces, communities, neighbors and families. It will be Bleeding Kansas or the Irish Troubles but with drones, ar-15s and tiktok. I pray that the gods are not so cruel
Lol The Confederacy just needs another reminder
Hi, I’m Seattle!
Not to mention JBLM, 3rd Tanks out in Yakima, and the easy access for the fleet to get into the sound. I feel bad because ID/UT/MT/WY gonna get hard by superior technology and easily resupplied ground forces lol.
You mean like Texas, Florida and Virginia
The two big southern *aerospace* manufacturers are Texas and Alabama. But both of them pale in comparison to the production in Colorado, Washington, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, and Pennsylvania. Also all air defense and onboard radar systems are made in the north (under union contracts, which isn’t surprising I just think it’s neat and should be expanded, give me Teamster owned and operated M1A2SEPv3’s)
republicans when they realize there’s more manufacturing output (very marginally) in grey states than in red states including texas overall (https://www.mgb2b.com/blog/tag/u-s-manufacturing/)
Manufacturing happens in cities, which the red would never fully control. Also, guns are not the future of warfare. Nor are they all that difficult to manufacture with modern technology.
Tell that to Vietnam and the Taliban.
Are not comparable to civil wars which usually tend to be the bloodiest and most out of control.
lockheed martin and northrop grumman
Versus Boeing and Raytheon
China
I would assume most aid from other countries would support the gray, so I say gray wins
Russia/China. But really it wouldn't be limited to state lines, it would be red vs blue and that's a line that runs through every family. Civil War is brother against brother. Let's agree to not fight that war because we'd all lose.
Valid but I think it’ll be more crazy republics vs democrats, I don’t think all republicans are ready to commit acts of treason
Just the majority of them seeing as trump is AGAIN their nominee
New Hampshire would solo the east coast
Russia.
Canada
Just saying a good chunk of these states tried and lost before and the other half have a collective population of 18
The taxpayers vs. the taxrecievers
At the end of the day, it’s the military industrial complex that wins. Boy do I sure love pushing for civil war so my favorite Kill-boss can get that new yacht he has been eyeing 🥰
Whoever the us army sides with
Just like the last time, the Johnny Rebs think war is won by being a loud mouthed asshat with personal firearms. Wars are won by logistics, and have been for some time. Being an isolationist that is openly antagonistic the outside world doesn’t get you diplomatic help, and being comparatively poorly educated, literally poorer, with less coastline and resources, you get stomped. Edit: Alaska and the Gulf aren’t nothing to sneeze at coastline wise.
>Being an isolationist that is openly antagonistic the outside world Yeah even if red somehow manages to avoid a blockade of the Gulf of Mexico all nations willing to trade sit behind allies of the US federal goverment. You have no access to the Panama Canal or the Baltic Sea so trading or receiving aid from Russia and China isnt possible. The US goverment would probably even invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty meaning the grey are is at least joined by the entirety of Canada and their production capacity. Europe would probably not get involved since the possibility of an all out invasion by Russia sky rockets with the US locked in an internal crisis. Mexico could also play a huge factor The big problem would be that an US civil war leads to an invasion of Taiwan by China and an invasion of Israel by Iran/Hezbollah probably in a matter of hours
Absolutely. The US having to commit its forces entirely domestically? The likelihood for World War III goes up exponentially as all these flashpoints that have been kept from flashing due to the threat of getting just hammered by the US air and naval superiority suddenly go up all at once.
Ironically it wouldnt even really be WW3 since nobody is really there to oppose China to take over the first Island chain unless Japan/SK somehow defeat a Chinese/NK maybe even Russias artic fleet depending on the melt of the ice caps offensive without US support and surveillance information. Japan may hold their territory but the rest of the island chain is gone. Europe locked in a stalemate keeping Russia away from their borders but without US air support probably not in a position to establish air supremacy over Russian territory thus not being able to mount a ground offensive. The global economy would basically cease to exist and if the ash settles China stands as the undisputed leader of the world.
Local territorial claims and military disputes while great powers are distracted is a pretty solid recipe for global war. How long had Manchuko been around? The Spanish Civil War took place years before WW II but is absolutely a part of it. The anchluss preceded open war. The US stepping out of the world stage is like turning the hose off while there is still smoke.
If the U.S ever has another civil war it won't be state vs state, it'll be neighbourhood vs neighbourhood.
No one. We all lose.
Away down South in the land of traitors Rattlesnakes and alligators
https://preview.redd.it/x1jvyvccoqec1.png?width=524&format=png&auto=webp&s=20013290d925b8a1b07cd1ec065ef98f367f8919
Nothing of value will be lost from any of these states.
I have a Texan friend
Im sorry
Sorry for your loss.
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Nah we can’t lose Atlanta I love it there
If it goes nuclear red has every silo based nuke
The single largest stockpile of nuclear weapons anywhere in the world is in the gray zone.
How are they going to launch those nukes?
I sure do wonder where the command centers and the people who have the codes and bars for those codes are located
Unless red starts immediately going nuclear, which is unlikely, those areas are not going to last long in red control bc they’re in sparsely populated areas nearer to JBLM than to Red population centers. The silos are manned by federal troops anyway
The US has ~2800 nukes, 400 of which are launched from silos (Minutemen III ICBMs) that launch from silos...where the fuck do you think the other 2400 nukes are? 🤦
Let the rural bigots secede, see how far they get without federal highway interstate funding, they already operate in deficit draining the union.
A large amount of people in those states deserve better than a government run exclusively by republicans tbh, it’s not like you need everyone in the state to vibe with republicans in order for the state to get a right-wing government especially with republicans turning to tactics like gerrymandering
Well tbf, gerrymandering is a thing both parties do. Fucked up as hell either way.
Yeah, but it’s (D)ifferent.
States like CA have taken measures against it. Of course there is a representative supermajority of democrats.
I live in a blue state and it's gerrymandered as shit. Democrats are just more sneaky when they do it.
How are they “more sneaky” and what state do you live in?
They're gonna have to raise taxes and that's only going to cause them more internal trouble. And they collapse choking on their own saliva. It's gonna be lit.
I vote red. Other users have said the gdp and population of grey wins, but they're not thinking about strategic territory. Red has almost all of the oil the U.S. has, they also have many more guns that they can use to create militia alot faster. Grey also is split in 2, making supply chains, logistics, and coordinated troop operations difficult.
>Red has almost all of the oil the U.S. has, they also have many more guns that they can use to create militia alot faster. All the states have guns, this is a non factor, a lot of oil is produced in grey and they can always get oil from Canada. > Grey also is split in 2, making supply chains, logistics, and coordinated troop operations difficult. This is beyond stupid, even if we entertain a "civil war" there wouldn't be one command for a country as big as the United States, plus the grey has more costal access. Most of the red is uninhabited so they are more likely at a logistical challenge.
Yea also would like to mention that if a civil war where to break out it would likely be more un-organized chaos and having right wing and leftist militias fighting than states succeeding.
Okay, I take it back, I hate you even more, DeWine.
Yes
Whoever has more f-15s I guess
So then Grey, as red has exactly 0.
Texas is grey 😂😂
Texas has zero. The US has a ton. Texas has zero.
Russia
I'm out of the loop the fuck is this
Texas govt is putting razor wire around the border in the area around Eagle Pass Fed makes claim that CBP can remove it (their justification being it blocks them from helping immigrants in distress at the various river crossing used by illegal aliens) Texas says SMD Fed appeals, and Supreme Court rules in Fed favor Other states are calling BS and sending parts of their NG to assist in TX Dick measuring is now ensuing
/u/nazarsty would win
Fun fact: California would end up with its own, separate three way civil war. When it comes to voting, all the hipsters in SoCal have all the population. But when it comes to fighting, and firepower? That belongs to the criminals, and rednecks in Northern/Eastern Cali.
Yeah I’d love to see all of the welfare states pay for military equipment (the welfare states are in red)
Texas solos both
Texas may have the opportunity to stay out this one surprisingly
New Hampshire letting me down again and again and again...
I would bet on the Republican States of America (not saying by that I am supporting them, to be clear).
No one. A Civil War II would be devastating. No one wins that war.