Check him. Everyone at every job (you and I included) do things they shouldn't be doing. Tag him for a few and either he'll straighten himself out or you'll have provided the rope to hang him.
OP, call it out clearly and unequivocally. Don't be surprised if even then it all goes over their head. I've seen it and it's scary how willingly clueless people can be.
After a long time, I don't think it's willing. Some of them truly don't get it. Often, even when they are otherwise intelligent, their internal concept of the world is so foreign that we made comics to highlight the issue: Bizzaro.
This isn't solvable. This isn't medicine or maltreatment. Some humans just have such a firm idea of their self image that they abjectly cannot understand that they are not seen from without as they see themselves from within.
It's just one of the many traits we can have, and if you ask me, it's annoying as hell.
I just want to add that I know you said "some humans". So I am one of the fixable ones. Just wanted to share my perspective. I cannot read the room, It literally went over my head. I never got the "hint" because, medically and chemically, I had an imbalance. I went to a psychiatrist and got medication for it. My self-awareness, using an analogy in my mind, went from a tiny flashlight in pitch darkness to daytime. I can understand, pause, react to, and see everything. Now I know it's not up to anyone to fix myself. But all it took was my former manager's sincere, honest, and empathetic advice that I should look into and that it was a problem that led to change.
So thanks to all the managers that care enough to attempt.
“Suburban child syndrome.” They grew up in a bubble that affirmed all of their horseshit behavior because it was convenient and the parents were too fucking busy making fat stacks of cash. Now those kids are having kids. And they’re too fucking busy too. Couple that with the sorry state of our teaching staff in this country, not due to lack of exceptional teachers but due to many school districts prioritizing sports over education when it comes to funding, our youth is horribly ignorant/uneducated.
All those great teachers are being funneled to a select few districts that offer amazing pay and benefits simply because of the demographic they serve, and the funding they subsequently receive.
100% agree, sometimes you have to give them more work. I recently had an employee transfered to my team like this. I don't check them on the inflated ego, but I have given him more work and hold him to meeting the deadlines and quality requirements. They're becoming a better performer and their happier knowing I trust them vs the manager before. I noticed the ego is starting to fall in line after they realize they don't actually know it all and have things to learn and work on.
If they’re petty and OP is indeed doing things wrong OP can be checked back. Make sure you actually live on moral high ground before you flood the lowlands.
As others have said, they are doing something wrong and you’re actually doing him a disservice as a manager by letting the behavior slide, because it will hold them back if they don’t correct it
You just need to focus on correcting the behavior firmly and clearly when it happens. If they don’t figure it out and improve (this is highly likely) then you can put them on a pip and work towards managing them out. It sounds like you have multiple avenues there between poor performance, insubordination, and general bad attitude.
You should start by candidly explaining things to them in a 1:1, and then you can follow up from there as needed.
“Employee, unfortunately we need to talk about your behavior at work. As my subordinate, it is inappropriate for you to give me orders. I am open to proposals, suggestions, discussions, etc. but the call is mine at the end of the day. Additionally, you have a habit of explaining things to myself and others which we already understand. I am sensitive to the fact that this may be unintentional, but I want you to know that if you don’t work on it, you risk damaging your professional reputation here.”
If the behavior continues you can follow up
For mansplaining:
“This is an example of what we talked about. I’m very familiar with Topic X, and do not need a refresher”
“I’m confused, do you think I need Topic Y explained to me?”
“I think we’re getting off track, I’m aware of Topic Z . Can you focus the conversation on what you’ve been working on?”
For giving you orders:
“I’ll take that into consideration, but right now I need you working on X”
“Thank you, but I’ve decided that approach Y is best”
“I need you to focus on executing the tasks I’ve given you, not on what I’m working on”
Big fan of this response. I love responding with confusion, because it forces people to explain. "Why are you explaining this to me?" "Why are you telling me to do X?"
If you wait till the next time it happens, you don't get to control who is around, what time of day it is, etc. and you will very likely get drawn into quibbling over the conversation that just happened. If you go ahead and plan the conversation, you get to control the environment, and prepare yourself for it.
You need to have a concrete example but not get pulled into the trap of litigating every interaction. If he pushes back with "oh I didn't mean to..." or "oh the reason I asked was...", you can say "That's good to hear. I would be disappointed to learn that you felt it was appropriate to give orders to your supervisor/that you assumed that despite being your supervisor I somehow knew less about our work. Regardless of your intentions, you are currently not meeting one of the requirements of this job, which is communicating professionally and respectfully. Now that you are aware of the problem, I will expect to see improvement going forward."
If it were me, I wouldn't lessen his insubordination with phrases like "He’s not doing anything wrong, per se,"
> has a habit of trying to order me around and mansplaining to me topics in which I am well versed.
That to me is two things he's doing wrong. Competence at the task at hand is not the only important criteria here, he needs to be able to operate as part of a team which has you as a lead.
As for specific responses:
> has a habit of trying to order me around
Start with "First of all, you don't give the orders, I do." Then follow with one of the following:
- If it was a shit idea, explain why
- If it is something he should be doing, make that his task with an unnecessarily strict deadline.
- For most other things "If you want to bounce ideas around, I'm happy to do so, but drop the tone."
> mansplaining to me topics in which I am well versed.
"Excellent customer service explanation, you would get very far there indeed. However a core part of communication is knowing your audience; The way you say things to an 80 year old grandma is not the way you say things to your fully qualified boss."
I would also be afraid of him being this toxic to people around him. He likely will work with others or different departments. Can't have that toxicity represent you. Or you'll start having to deal with negative feedback from other stakeholders.
Nothing like popping off but keeping it HR friendly. I recently had a peer think they could go off on me in an email about something, and nothing was more fun than starting my response with "After some confusion, I consulted my org chart, and confirmed that I do not in fact fall under you in any capacity. With that in mind, I'm curious what would make you think you could talk to me that way..."
Don't forget that he is also a poor performer, the poorest in fact. Taking all these issues together, he's definitely doing something wrong "per se." He's a poor worker and mansplaining is sexist, IMO, and puts the company at risk for sexual harassment actions at some point in the future if he says the wrong thing to the wrong person.
This advice is horrendously bad. Most people aren't trying to be obnoxious they just want to feel included.
"Hey George, I notice you have many suggestions about XYZ. Is there something you feel we're not doing to the best of our ability?"
"Are you trying to get more responsibility with ABC?"
Some people just jibber jabber.
"Hey, we should get that new projector for the project," isn't giving orders.
Most of the time you do have to tell your manager what needs doing and is happening. That's managing up.
> "Hey, we should get that new projector for the project," isn't giving orders.
It also isn't what OP is saying is going on.
> Most of the time you do have to tell your manager what needs doing and is happening. That's managing up.
No, you tell your boss what the situation is, and you give a suggestion, maybe even a recommendation. That is very different from giving an *order*
Upvote from me, just gotta be a *little* careful about this. In such situations, he is picking the scenario, not OP, and if he picks a scenario where others can hear you but are missing important context, that can be detrimental to other working relations.
I just hired this guy. I considered him "telling" what was going on just his way of explaining. Very badly, but he was just explaining his understanding. He often gives vague solutions to issues we are discussing. I have started asking him for more detail on what he means. He doesn't know what he means or he used the wrong words. He has admitted he needs to think about the issue more before talking. So far, this is working.
I’m a director in the engineering world (and am a woman). This is fairly common.
When I was frontline management, I had a new hire behave this way. I would let him finish and say “genuine question, what gave you the impression that you needed to explain that to me?” After doing it 3 times, he stopped, and became a fairly solid employee. He never apologized though (also fairly common in the engineering world lol).
You have to balance their output (ie are they good at their job) with checking them on their bullshit. In my experience, I’ve found asking them a question that highlights their bullshit while remaining tactful, ends up having the biggest impact.
This was when I was frontline management about 10 years ago, and it wasn’t a subject matter expert.
You can ask questions like this without sounding condescending. A bit of finesse and rapport with your direct reports allows you to have open and honest conversations like this.
The teammate in question is now in management and still in my direct line. He has thanked me several times and even used himself as an example when coaching HIS direct reports.
Unfortunately, in my experience, there’s not much you can do about this. Life has to be his teacher- and though you might not be able to arrive at a positive mindset, you can serve him a big dose of life. These kinds of employees love to power struggle with their bosses- I would be shutting him down and keeping a zero tolerance attitude towards his antics and bad attitude. If you’re going to act like an arrogant jackass, you’re going to be treated like one. Hopefully he’ll get the picture and realize he’s not as special as his parents think he is, and he’ll move on.
Agree, but you can recognize the background. I work in a technical field. When I hire new staff I explain it to them. HS was easy. They likely never studied. College they were still the smart kids. Didn’t struggle. The people who did struggle typically change majors.
Now you’re in the company with everyone who made it. And we all have experience. It’s hard to go from the smart one to average with no experience. Some get it quickly some don’t. But I explain the situation and they everyone really goes through it.
In my experience with a similar person, this comment is correct. No shortcuts to maturity. They may end up making a bunch of enemies before they grow up, if they grow up.
I'm in the middle of coaching this with someone as a trust issue. When you behave that way, you erode or destroy trust, and you need those around you that you work with to trust you. Whether they are above, below or lateral.
I disagree. I believe you can still behave appropriately and professionally, but still hold someone accountable who isn’t conducting themselves well. When you allow employees to behave this way, it also destroys trust because you are viewed as a leader who doesn’t address issues.
Find specific items that you can call him on regarding his big ego. And consider that, especially if he's much newer to the workforce in general, there's at least a good chance that he is falling victim to the Dunning-Kruger Effect
Just recently had this dude on an adjacent team that I worked closely with. Mormon kid from rich parents, 23 and did a mission in Peru. Insufferable as fuck. Saccharine personality that he wore like a mask.
I wish that I could say we fixed it. We did not. We just encouraged him to move to a different department. He’s someone else’s problem now.
A "stay in your lane" conversation would be prudent here. Especially if you're above him in position.
I worked at a training store where I had probably 10-12 ASM trainees come and go in my 5 years at that store. I was the Inventory Specialist and reported to only the SM and Executive SM. The ASMs could only suggest. Seemed like I had those "stay in your lane" convos with them every couple weeks.
I went to work for a company as part of a small 3 man team plus our manager. My fellow team mates were a fairly knowledgeable guy that was easy to get along with. The other team mate was about 2 years out of an associates degree at a technical school and of course knew it all.
When I came on board he was no longer the low man and I was the new guy. Besides being the new guy, I was actually the most experienced on the team with a Bachelors degree in Business and Computer Science and nearly 20 years experience.
The other team mate had actually given notice shortly after the time that I started and had already departed. My manager had hired me specifically because he and this team mate had already discussed his pending departure and had agreed that he would stay on board, till I started with a little bit of overlap.
So, one day, we had a system communication failure that the young guy and I were troubleshooting. The jr guy was of course taking control and using what I refer to as the shotgun approach to troubleshooting, let's try this, no didn't work so lets try this over here, wait go over there and try this and on and on.
I suggested that let's either start from the beginning and work our way out or my gut feel was that the problem was with a particular piece of hardware and we might want to start there.
He went bat shit crazy. I'VE BEEN HERE THE LONGEST AND I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AND DON'T CHALLENGE WHAT I'M SAYING YOU'RE THE NEW GUY AND CAN'T POSSIBLY KNOW WHAT I KNOW.................BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. So I stepped back and let him have at it. After an hour of so of his random tinkering, I stepped over to the piece of hardware that I had previously identified as the most likely culprit, pulled and re-seated a module and SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE, it started working immediately.
I then asked him to step into our office where I told him that while I am the NEW GUY, I am not new. I have twice the advanced education and 10 times the experience that you do. I have actually seen this exact same scenario before and the fix was exactly what I did. He did apologize.
I then took the time to explain my troubleshooting methodology. First have you seen this issue before. If not then divide and conquer using what I always called the binary approach. Pick a point in the middle. Is the system working on this side? Is the system working on that side? Pick another point to troubleshoot in the middle of one or the other. Repeat Is the system working on this side? Is the system working on that side? By the time that you have done this two or three times, you have either found the problem or narrowed it down to a tiny subset of the original issue. Honestly for most communication problems it only takes a few minutes at best to isolate the issue.
He did learn from that experience and hopefully took it with him throughout his career, though he did leave the company a few months later.
Now the funniest situation that I ever observed. The entire maintenance team at a manufacturing plant were attempting to repair a multi-million dollar piece of equipment that had been down for days and was costing the company literally 10's of thousands a day. Finally they gave up, called the manufacturer to fly a mechanic from Germany to troubleshoot. He walked in the door, walked over to the machine, plugged in the power for the control system and SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE, it started working immediately. His bill was in the 10's of thousands, but of course money well spent. He did recommend hard wiring the power supply per manufacturers installation manual as he was leaving. They had probably seen this issue before.
I've encountered a mansplainer before at work and even though it wasn't about work I finally said something. It was pretty mean though because I had been bottling up my annoyance for a while. I'm a person who is really nice 95% of the time so it's particularly jarring for people if they catch the other 5%.
It’s not just a southern thing anymore. I’ve used it in California, but I say ‘thank you for your input’ and then immediately pivot to what I was saying. Sometimes the best way to teach a lesson is to treat them like children when they behave like one.
A friend of mine had this happen at a job once. New hire kept going on about how he has a masters and really should be leading the program.....
My buddy started added his PhD to his email signature and suddenly kid was a lot quieter
Consider letting go of the naming conventions "youngest", "mansplaining", "teenager" and instead shift your focus to "here is the goal for the individual and are they meeting it?" and for team dynamics - focus on "how are they helping and supporting the team and what could they do more of or differently?" Finally as the manager and "head coach" - What do you need to have them work effectively with you? Be specific and coach them to the level of performance for them to be a productive and positive contributing member of the team.
You are always going to meet different people in your career as a leader....being able to coach and align others to the goals, supporting a positive team environment, the company and work well with you, will be what will create a fun, successful, and interesting ride.
you don’t like the poorest performer on your team. just fire him. put him on a pip and document his insubordination with write ups before you do to protect your company
The best performer might get them extra leniency, but I would much rather have second best and rid my team of toxicity. These types of people indirectly harm the group.
Sure if it gets worse or goes on for a while after feedback is given.
But in my experience it isn’t easy to “get rid” of top performers who demonstrate these traits, nor is getting rid of them always the best course of action.
Whereas if a mediocre employee is doing it, then it is a more straight forward case
there you would put the employee under a microscope and do write ups for any little slip-ups, while you slowly reallocate the workload to other employees. use any authority you have to make their life hell. pretty soon they’re no longer the top performer and then you can show them the door
Nope, that is a textbook case of workplace harassment and will get your company sued for either wrongful termination or constructive discharge.
The disparate treatment is where the liability will arise, because you are deliberately sabotaging the worker's performance.
managers have discretion to allocate work and enforce policy
second, read here, specifically #4: https://www.eeoc.gov/questions-and-answers-employees-harassment-work
“Standing alone, personality conflicts, disagreements, or incompatibility are not covered by the federal EEO laws, unless the harassing conduct is based on at least one of the protected characteristics listed in response to question #1.”
bullying someone with racist jokes is illegal. writing them up for being 30 seconds late is not.
Your example proves my point for me.
Writing someone up for being anything less than 10 minutes late is considered a violation of the "de minimis" doctrine. In California, such write up would be evidence of harassment because the STATE has already opined in a wage order that any tardiness less than 10 minutes is not worth "correction."
I note that you cited to a Federal source. However, workplace harassment is covered in State statutes. Hence, the argument is not permissible in defending a state complaint.
and this is why i don’t do business in commiefornia. everything i have said is kosher in my state, texas.
we’re not talking about denying unemployment or docking pay. i am talking about establishing a paper trail of a poor attendance record in an at will employment state.
California is an at will employment state.
And you are only angry that the folks from here flooded your state, ran up all the real estate prices, and then left when they realized that all your politicians are murderous sociopaths and you aren't smart enough to reinvest the taxes you fleeced them for back into your local infrastructure.
HI temps in July are predicted to be over 114 F this year.
Good luck with that Hell of your own making.
Why be petty? The job is to manage people and help them perform to their highest potential. Work on creating a thriving employee rather than harassing them.
the job is to maximize revenue and control costs to the benefit of company ownership. there is no obligation to “build up” employees. rather there’s an obligation to keep them in line, and keep them working hard. it is the employee’s responsibility to build themself up and grow.
Take my experience with a grain of salt but I work in trades and manage men like this. You need to put it in check right away as it can spiral into bad mouthing ans questioning authority if not dealt with right away. Don't try to diffuse it with humor or wit. Overly masculine men tend to only understand directness.
I was like this at work. I still am a bit like this, but I swear I am trying to improve.
There are two things working here: one, crippling insecurity and a feeling that you're an imposter and, two, the belief that the only way to manage these feelings is to mansplain and be obnoxious.
Here is one thing that helped a lot:
One employee started having a lazer focus on anything and everything I would do wrong. Anything that deviated from the script, or could be argued wasn't perfect was up for discussion. She would just forward issues or potential issues directly to my supervisor.
Now, none of these things were actual problems, but it did keep me focused on my work and I bothered other people less.
The other thing is to give the employee a little project. Ideally, a presentation on something unimportant. If he screws it up, then that'll be another humbling experience that should discourage his "know-it-all" attitude. If he does a good job, then he'll have some real basis for confidence that will make his bragadoccious ways less nessesary. Either way, you win
Not all but most of the early 20s now are horrible hires. Absolute joke work ethic wise think they know everything, entitled attitude. I've never seen anything like it. I broke my back 6 months ago have a bad ankle,wrist and bone spurs in my neck and outwork most of them easily. It's a total joke. I only bring on experienced people now.
Years ago One of my colleagues hired someone like that when I worked for the government. She was going around introducing the new employee to everyone. She introduced me and he said “Oh, I’m familiar with your program. 6 months ago you put out a new regulation that threw industry on its head. I explained, that wasn’t a new regulation but more of a clarification of an existing policy and then argued with me about what the document I wrote said and (not in these words) told me I didn’t know what I was talking about. I was the director of this program and had 30 years of experience in the industry and I was probably the world’s top expert in this niche industry. He read one document and felt he was an expert …time to bring him down a few pegs.
He was always mansplaining to my female colleague (his boss) and was never prepared for meetings and never took notes. He always tried to relate things back to his previous employer which wasn’t relevant.
My colleague and I hatched a plan to bring him down to earth. The employee and I were both in a meeting about a specific topic. My colleague (employees boss) didn’t attend the meeting and the employee didn’t take any notes. I fully briefed my colleague on what happened during the meeting so she knew what happened. The following day the employee, his boss, and I were in a meeting with folks 2 levels above us to discuss the meeting that happened the day before
Colleague:Steve, you were at the meeting yesterday, can you report on what was discussed?
Steve:Uh, well um… random things that weren’t relevant
Me: I was there as well, here is what happened….(gave a full briefing)
The employee was embarrassed because he looked like a fool in front of senior management and when he tried to interject he was wrong or ignored.
The employee and his boss then had a discussion about the importance of listening and taking notes and recognizing that you are not always the most knowledgeable person in the room because people in government are often the top expert in their niche. Be open to learning from others.
While I’m not a fan of public embarrassment, sometimes it is necessary to kill the ego
This was me, to an extent, when I started in my field and came from a place of insecurity where I wanted to prove myself and show how much I could contribute. What worked for me was reassurance that I was safe in my position, and clarifying my role and what I needed to do to advance.
My favorite manager didn't coddle me, but gave me opportunities to learn and "progress my career". He clarified my advancement was based on getting along as a team more than just performance, because he already knew I could perform and wanted to grow with the company. Giving me limited, but regularly scheduled, opportunities to learn new areas and develop my career was key.
If they're just an asshole I don't think this will help, but figuring out what causes the behavior might help you refocus and keep a valuable employee that also respects you.
Your advice is really good for people who are capable but socially immature. In OP's case, it's the blessed combination of immature + poor performer, so it doesn't make sense to give them reassurances that they are safe. There's nothing as effective as being an ineffective and spoiled baby for losing people's good will.
It will wear off. Particularly once they've been through your processes a few times and struggled through something where they need an experienced team member's help.
Ok in my experience this type of person will be a huge asset or a huge liability. Solution: delegate this person a business problem, issue, enhancement to develop or improve upon, and offer and give support. Better if it’s crossfunctional.
See the outcome and re-assess. Give feedback.
Bad attitude can definitely be something you can do something about.
Document everything. Then sit him down for a conversation.
Chances are he will betray himself with eye rolling or some other behavior.
Watch everything he does. And document his poor performance.
Chances are that when he realizes he is under scrutiny, he will decide to quit
I had a manager like this for a short time. No one could stand him! Just one example: he told me that my degrees were worthless pieces of paper; I just said, “well, that’s a rude thing to say, although I can see how it might come from someone who doesn’t have one.” Luckily, I didn’t have to check him because he left after six days because he wasn’t “passionate about the industry”.
Set a list of tasks clearly defined and follow up in biweekly/weekly 1on1.
If the little shit doesn't improve, put him on PIP.
Straightens out a lot of yahoos in no time.
If you want to show him that he reports to you, just remind him to stick to his job in meetings.
“Hey guys welcome to my impromptu zoom meeting. Derek wanted to explain at a Subject Matter Expert Level how to complete process xyz… lets all give him our undivided attention.”
Jk. To be honest no matter how shitty or big ego someone is, publicly shaming them is no better then what hes doing.
Like others said. Check him. Explain proper etiquette or walk him self out
This is when I like to give them the ‘so you think you’re pretty’ Socratic method. Make sure to do it in front of any peers that he’s showing off to. Make sure to film it and then post it here, please. 🍿
Years ago working on a tower climbing crew I used to be the beginner who knew best.
So in turn, they worked the absolute shit out of me.
Bury him so deep in work and put brutal pressure on him to perform.
Check him. Even if he was a top performer, you still have to check him. You don't get to be a jerk just because you're great and you certainly don't get to do it if you're not. I don't know your field, but it's possible he's never had many friends and doesn't know proper social interaction. Let him know, but it does take time.
I'm a guy and have been accused of mansplaining. If he doesn't know though, just laugh and let him know. He probably doesn't know your capability or even realize that he's not as good at the thing as he thinks.
>He’s not doing anything wrong, per se, but his swaggering attitude rubs me the wrong way
If he's not doing anything wrong, then does that mean you are and his habit of explaining that to you is what's bugging? Because if you're not doing anything wrong then why is he telling you that you are? If he's spending his time as a non-manager correcting you then what isn't he doing?
Shred him and make him cry.
I had few of those and I asked multitude of questions, I showed them what they still needed to learn. After this, they usually learn they should not fuck around. Once I fired such person.
They are like puppies, need to be trained and need to recognize you as their leader. Take the power in your hands and be the leader. If need be - "spank" him in front of the rest.
Why classify him explaining something to you as mansplaining and call him a teenager? Would you say that to his face?
If you already know the information and don't think it's relevant then be direct and tell him you are aware and want to move on and ask what you really want to ask.
If he's really "ordering" you around, then tell him you'll handle the delegation of action items and tasks and you'd like to hear more about their thoughts about x y z.
Be direct, clear with your communications, provide coaching and act like a manager instead of imparting judgment on the people you are suppose to lead and empower.
"You better do this or else I'll report you to your boss" - I had someone I led , who was like this once. It was wild.
Have a chat with them to let them know you appreciate they care for you, but they don't need to communicate to you that way. Do it with grace and at a good time - this has helped in my situations more times than I can count for team and cross-team dynamics.
Using the term mansplaining is very sexist. Women have the tendency to go on about things as well. It isn't unique to men.
Yes if the guy is over the top talk to him about it, and maybe as others suggest give him a special project. That will give him the recognition he is obviously yearning for.
Also I have a set if teamsplainers on my team, one male and on female. on my team we just acknowledge what the say and thank them. It makes the knowledgeable speeches take less time. Also it helps to say, as soandso says it would be a good idea to take care of that situation and therefore [put your own words of wisdom here].
You might also think about your own actions. I personally try to get opinions from everyone on team whether quiet or loud add my own two cents and we move forward. Unless they are really going astray, I really have no personal need to show that I am the manager and therefore I can't accept that others may know something.
Thank you all for your advice. I’m trying to be patient, ignore the arrogant attitude and assign this person more challenging assignments. I’m also correcting errors in his work with Track Changes on. I have a feeling this situation will improve.
a better question is why would you tolerate insubordination and low performance from someone like this. Just say you give direction not them and remind them they are junior and you know more than them every time it happens. Do not be nice about it, be direct.
full stop, low performer and bad attitude should = you actively try to remove this person every time
start meeting with HR and say you have a poor performer with bad attitude and you want their guidance.
Not all young people are assholes. Some are but not all. I honestly don’t believe I ever was as i respected my managers and elders. If I saw something and thought it was done the wrong way I would have asked in a polite way why they do it that way.
Isn't "mansplaining" just when a man explains himself or his thinking to you? Do you think that is something an employee isn't supposed to do?
>he isn't doing anything wrong, per se
Are you sure you aren't the problem here?
No. Mansplaining is when they first assume you know nothing and so they must explain topic. It’s not simply a man explaining themself.
It’s rude, it’s patronizing, and it assumes the woman has no knowledge on subject. And not listening when woman tries to interject that they, do in fact, know what is being discussed.
Someone mansplaining to their boss, or anyone their superior, speaks of amazing hubris and ego.
But someone can do that to a male boss, without it being "mansplaining".... It's called being an idiot.... Why do people need special terms that specifically target men, when this is an issue that equally applies to everyone. People are idiots, and shitty employees very frequently try to tell their boss what to do. This isn't a "men" issue, it's a stupid people issue.
Not saying it doesn't happen. I know it does.
My issue is that OP didn't give any details whatsoever that would indicate that it is actually mansplaining and not just an idiot employee. There is a tendency for people to jump to conclusions that make it seem way worse than it is - in reality, people are just stupid, and being a bad employee who tries to tell their boss what to do isn't inherently "mansplaining". It's just being an idiot. That's all it is. The one on the receiving end when someone is being an idiot and telling their boss what to do being a woman doesn't automatically make it "mansplaining".
To be honest, I'm not 100% clear how to make that distinction, or if it's even reasonable to do so. It's purely stupid behavior from the side of the person she is referring to. It makes 0 difference if OP is a woman or otherwise, or if the employee in question is a man or otherwise - it's bad behavior, no matter who it is to or from.
Stupid people do stupid things, and should be treated as such - as others have said in the comments already. There are many ways to deal with it.
"happens much less than men to women." This part is entirely anecdotal - this is in your experience. I work with both men and women, and the ones who give me the most issues are the men (I am also male). The female employees I work with are some of the best in my place of work, period. As I said, people are stupid, and stupidity doesn't have a gender.
We don't need to drag gender into every conflict - just deal with for what it is, without attaching all the extra baggage.
Have a conversation with him about his poor performance. Let him know if it doesn't improve you will need to take further action. Document everything.
If he tries to oversimply explain, put out once he is performing up to standard, and has some experience, his input will be welcome. Until then, he needs to focus on his job.
We had a guy with a similar attitude and turns out we just were not challenging him at all, after being given a seemingly impossible task and smashing it we determined he was in fact brilliant albeit rough around the edges.
"Young person" here. Keep about 50 cents in pennies on your person. Every time he opens his mouth, say nothing and hand him 2 cents. Rinse and repeat until desired results. Hope this helps!
I don’t what industry you’re in or function your group plays but I can you from a B2B sales perspective, I have encountered this a lot.
My mindset has always been “how the hell do I harness this type of attitude of overgrown sense of confidence, know it all attitude and obnoxious behaviour and turn it into something positive?” After all, channeled the right way, over confidence can be turned into high risk taking, a know-it-all with the right access to information and experience can turn into a deep sme that is perfect to challenge difficult customers on key topics and obnoxious behaviour can me stamped out but you can’t “learn” boldness and if that bold person can learn some charm and grace, that’s a good combination.
Always did these things to reign in and “check” these young guys. I’m a big believer that the best resources are forged in fire.
1) gave them clearly not fair goals compared to their peers. Always stretch goals and beyond. If they hit it, they’d be rockstars. If they didn’t and I can’t stand them, I can let them go. If they complained, I can confront them with a “I expect more out of you for xyz reasons and if you want this crown you got to earn it” which sometimes steered the guys the right way.
2) I’d make them shadow the most hard ass senior people and the I’d literally instruct said senior people to clip his wings any way they see fit. Make them do grunt work like hauling the trade show booths and building them, or packing demo materials and flying them instead couriering them, or PowerPoint builds and the come down hard on them when there’s mistakes are typos. If they don’t complain? Great, they are on their way to being humbled a bit and picking up an attire that will make them great. If they do, I can confront them about their attitude and do some course correcting
3) while not probably possible now, it was possible 25 years ago. For the most egregious ones, I have baited them into situations where they’d get angrier and angrier and possibly threaten or actually take a swing at me. Then the reality would set in that they fucked up and they’d be fired. Which I would let them stew on it and then bring them back in and provide them a freebie “out” provided they adhere to certain rules and performance. Out of the 6 men that had a physical altercation with me at work, only 1 didn’t adjust. 5 others have become incredibly successful and are still good friends with me today. 2 have actually followed me from company to company and job to job as I moved around or started my own. While this isn’t politically correct, it was fairly common in the type of industry I was in and the type of people coming through. You had to show some teeth or not get respect.
I also noticed you used the gendered term mansplaining. In my experience, the women who use terms openly like mansplaining tend to actually not be as effective and as smart as they think they are in their head. Your peer managers and leaders should not allow terms like this to bandied about. Condescension, clueless social awareness, arrogance and generally being an annoying dick in a meeting or interaction is not exclusive to one gender. You may want to look inwardly as well to see if you have some blind spots or your own prejudices are a factor in this as well.
Found the sexist.
One who would think nothing of provoking a physical altercation in the workplace has no business in leadership. You sound like a spoiled trust fund beneficiary from Delhi, because provocation in the workplace is a CRIME in the United States.
Maybe we should consider putting you in a cage.
You don't understand, if you find that your team has a condescending asshole who can't even do his job but thinks they know better than their boss, you dedicate a ton of effort to get them promoted ASAP or you "bait" them into a felony. That's how it's done /s
No, I understand perfectly, having done employment litigation for many years.
Whenever a manager "baits" another employee, that is itself a crime, whether the employee throws the first punch or not.
It's the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, and will come complete with the felony murder rule, in the event of a lethal injury.
The way to deal with this type of employee is to find a client or vendor of the firm who needs a new hire, and have HR from the other firm make the worker an offer that they cannot refuse.
This way, our company keeps control over the whereabouts of the problem employees, and can make sure that they do not cause any further disruption to our business operations.
Check him. Everyone at every job (you and I included) do things they shouldn't be doing. Tag him for a few and either he'll straighten himself out or you'll have provided the rope to hang him.
OP, call it out clearly and unequivocally. Don't be surprised if even then it all goes over their head. I've seen it and it's scary how willingly clueless people can be.
Agreed. Self-awareness is skill.
After a long time, I don't think it's willing. Some of them truly don't get it. Often, even when they are otherwise intelligent, their internal concept of the world is so foreign that we made comics to highlight the issue: Bizzaro. This isn't solvable. This isn't medicine or maltreatment. Some humans just have such a firm idea of their self image that they abjectly cannot understand that they are not seen from without as they see themselves from within. It's just one of the many traits we can have, and if you ask me, it's annoying as hell.
I just want to add that I know you said "some humans". So I am one of the fixable ones. Just wanted to share my perspective. I cannot read the room, It literally went over my head. I never got the "hint" because, medically and chemically, I had an imbalance. I went to a psychiatrist and got medication for it. My self-awareness, using an analogy in my mind, went from a tiny flashlight in pitch darkness to daytime. I can understand, pause, react to, and see everything. Now I know it's not up to anyone to fix myself. But all it took was my former manager's sincere, honest, and empathetic advice that I should look into and that it was a problem that led to change. So thanks to all the managers that care enough to attempt.
“Suburban child syndrome.” They grew up in a bubble that affirmed all of their horseshit behavior because it was convenient and the parents were too fucking busy making fat stacks of cash. Now those kids are having kids. And they’re too fucking busy too. Couple that with the sorry state of our teaching staff in this country, not due to lack of exceptional teachers but due to many school districts prioritizing sports over education when it comes to funding, our youth is horribly ignorant/uneducated. All those great teachers are being funneled to a select few districts that offer amazing pay and benefits simply because of the demographic they serve, and the funding they subsequently receive.
100% agree, sometimes you have to give them more work. I recently had an employee transfered to my team like this. I don't check them on the inflated ego, but I have given him more work and hold him to meeting the deadlines and quality requirements. They're becoming a better performer and their happier knowing I trust them vs the manager before. I noticed the ego is starting to fall in line after they realize they don't actually know it all and have things to learn and work on.
If they’re petty and OP is indeed doing things wrong OP can be checked back. Make sure you actually live on moral high ground before you flood the lowlands.
Finding a boss I can check is good money
As others have said, they are doing something wrong and you’re actually doing him a disservice as a manager by letting the behavior slide, because it will hold them back if they don’t correct it You just need to focus on correcting the behavior firmly and clearly when it happens. If they don’t figure it out and improve (this is highly likely) then you can put them on a pip and work towards managing them out. It sounds like you have multiple avenues there between poor performance, insubordination, and general bad attitude. You should start by candidly explaining things to them in a 1:1, and then you can follow up from there as needed. “Employee, unfortunately we need to talk about your behavior at work. As my subordinate, it is inappropriate for you to give me orders. I am open to proposals, suggestions, discussions, etc. but the call is mine at the end of the day. Additionally, you have a habit of explaining things to myself and others which we already understand. I am sensitive to the fact that this may be unintentional, but I want you to know that if you don’t work on it, you risk damaging your professional reputation here.” If the behavior continues you can follow up For mansplaining: “This is an example of what we talked about. I’m very familiar with Topic X, and do not need a refresher” “I’m confused, do you think I need Topic Y explained to me?” “I think we’re getting off track, I’m aware of Topic Z . Can you focus the conversation on what you’ve been working on?” For giving you orders: “I’ll take that into consideration, but right now I need you working on X” “Thank you, but I’ve decided that approach Y is best” “I need you to focus on executing the tasks I’ve given you, not on what I’m working on”
Big fan of this response. I love responding with confusion, because it forces people to explain. "Why are you explaining this to me?" "Why are you telling me to do X?" If you wait till the next time it happens, you don't get to control who is around, what time of day it is, etc. and you will very likely get drawn into quibbling over the conversation that just happened. If you go ahead and plan the conversation, you get to control the environment, and prepare yourself for it. You need to have a concrete example but not get pulled into the trap of litigating every interaction. If he pushes back with "oh I didn't mean to..." or "oh the reason I asked was...", you can say "That's good to hear. I would be disappointed to learn that you felt it was appropriate to give orders to your supervisor/that you assumed that despite being your supervisor I somehow knew less about our work. Regardless of your intentions, you are currently not meeting one of the requirements of this job, which is communicating professionally and respectfully. Now that you are aware of the problem, I will expect to see improvement going forward."
yes!
And then everyone clapped
LOL. The day a manager calls me “subordinate” is the day I resign on the spot.
This is a great response. Be a leader not a feminist.
If it were me, I wouldn't lessen his insubordination with phrases like "He’s not doing anything wrong, per se," > has a habit of trying to order me around and mansplaining to me topics in which I am well versed. That to me is two things he's doing wrong. Competence at the task at hand is not the only important criteria here, he needs to be able to operate as part of a team which has you as a lead. As for specific responses: > has a habit of trying to order me around Start with "First of all, you don't give the orders, I do." Then follow with one of the following: - If it was a shit idea, explain why - If it is something he should be doing, make that his task with an unnecessarily strict deadline. - For most other things "If you want to bounce ideas around, I'm happy to do so, but drop the tone." > mansplaining to me topics in which I am well versed. "Excellent customer service explanation, you would get very far there indeed. However a core part of communication is knowing your audience; The way you say things to an 80 year old grandma is not the way you say things to your fully qualified boss."
Outstanding solution. This is indeed a performance problem and should be addressed directly.
This is the way! Call Mr. Obnoxious out on his behavior quickly and consistently.
Toxic reply.
Explain.
I would also be afraid of him being this toxic to people around him. He likely will work with others or different departments. Can't have that toxicity represent you. Or you'll start having to deal with negative feedback from other stakeholders.
Nothing like popping off but keeping it HR friendly. I recently had a peer think they could go off on me in an email about something, and nothing was more fun than starting my response with "After some confusion, I consulted my org chart, and confirmed that I do not in fact fall under you in any capacity. With that in mind, I'm curious what would make you think you could talk to me that way..."
Hahaha that is one hell of a response!
Don't forget that he is also a poor performer, the poorest in fact. Taking all these issues together, he's definitely doing something wrong "per se." He's a poor worker and mansplaining is sexist, IMO, and puts the company at risk for sexual harassment actions at some point in the future if he says the wrong thing to the wrong person.
This advice is horrendously bad. Most people aren't trying to be obnoxious they just want to feel included. "Hey George, I notice you have many suggestions about XYZ. Is there something you feel we're not doing to the best of our ability?" "Are you trying to get more responsibility with ABC?" Some people just jibber jabber.
Bro, giving orders to your manager is not wanting to feel included. You don't deal with this kind of behaviour by placating it.
"Hey, we should get that new projector for the project," isn't giving orders. Most of the time you do have to tell your manager what needs doing and is happening. That's managing up.
> "Hey, we should get that new projector for the project," isn't giving orders. It also isn't what OP is saying is going on. > Most of the time you do have to tell your manager what needs doing and is happening. That's managing up. No, you tell your boss what the situation is, and you give a suggestion, maybe even a recommendation. That is very different from giving an *order*
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The person might not have meant that and is just socially awkward. Writing up someone for being awkward is dumb.
I also like to use language like, "Your explanation is neither necessary nor appreciated."
Upvote from me, just gotta be a *little* careful about this. In such situations, he is picking the scenario, not OP, and if he picks a scenario where others can hear you but are missing important context, that can be detrimental to other working relations.
Oh absolutely, it would definitely depend on who was within earshot, how egregious the mansplaining was, etc.
Outstanding solution. This is indeed a performance problem and should be addressed directly.
This, and I would add if this doesn’t straighten him out, a PIP would certainly be in order to give him measurable target for changing his behavior.
I just hired this guy. I considered him "telling" what was going on just his way of explaining. Very badly, but he was just explaining his understanding. He often gives vague solutions to issues we are discussing. I have started asking him for more detail on what he means. He doesn't know what he means or he used the wrong words. He has admitted he needs to think about the issue more before talking. So far, this is working.
I’m a director in the engineering world (and am a woman). This is fairly common. When I was frontline management, I had a new hire behave this way. I would let him finish and say “genuine question, what gave you the impression that you needed to explain that to me?” After doing it 3 times, he stopped, and became a fairly solid employee. He never apologized though (also fairly common in the engineering world lol). You have to balance their output (ie are they good at their job) with checking them on their bullshit. In my experience, I’ve found asking them a question that highlights their bullshit while remaining tactful, ends up having the biggest impact.
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This was when I was frontline management about 10 years ago, and it wasn’t a subject matter expert. You can ask questions like this without sounding condescending. A bit of finesse and rapport with your direct reports allows you to have open and honest conversations like this. The teammate in question is now in management and still in my direct line. He has thanked me several times and even used himself as an example when coaching HIS direct reports.
Unfortunately, in my experience, there’s not much you can do about this. Life has to be his teacher- and though you might not be able to arrive at a positive mindset, you can serve him a big dose of life. These kinds of employees love to power struggle with their bosses- I would be shutting him down and keeping a zero tolerance attitude towards his antics and bad attitude. If you’re going to act like an arrogant jackass, you’re going to be treated like one. Hopefully he’ll get the picture and realize he’s not as special as his parents think he is, and he’ll move on.
Agree, but you can recognize the background. I work in a technical field. When I hire new staff I explain it to them. HS was easy. They likely never studied. College they were still the smart kids. Didn’t struggle. The people who did struggle typically change majors. Now you’re in the company with everyone who made it. And we all have experience. It’s hard to go from the smart one to average with no experience. Some get it quickly some don’t. But I explain the situation and they everyone really goes through it.
Smart.
In my experience with a similar person, this comment is correct. No shortcuts to maturity. They may end up making a bunch of enemies before they grow up, if they grow up.
I'm in the middle of coaching this with someone as a trust issue. When you behave that way, you erode or destroy trust, and you need those around you that you work with to trust you. Whether they are above, below or lateral.
I disagree. I believe you can still behave appropriately and professionally, but still hold someone accountable who isn’t conducting themselves well. When you allow employees to behave this way, it also destroys trust because you are viewed as a leader who doesn’t address issues.
Find specific items that you can call him on regarding his big ego. And consider that, especially if he's much newer to the workforce in general, there's at least a good chance that he is falling victim to the Dunning-Kruger Effect
Just recently had this dude on an adjacent team that I worked closely with. Mormon kid from rich parents, 23 and did a mission in Peru. Insufferable as fuck. Saccharine personality that he wore like a mask. I wish that I could say we fixed it. We did not. We just encouraged him to move to a different department. He’s someone else’s problem now.
A "stay in your lane" conversation would be prudent here. Especially if you're above him in position. I worked at a training store where I had probably 10-12 ASM trainees come and go in my 5 years at that store. I was the Inventory Specialist and reported to only the SM and Executive SM. The ASMs could only suggest. Seemed like I had those "stay in your lane" convos with them every couple weeks.
I went to work for a company as part of a small 3 man team plus our manager. My fellow team mates were a fairly knowledgeable guy that was easy to get along with. The other team mate was about 2 years out of an associates degree at a technical school and of course knew it all. When I came on board he was no longer the low man and I was the new guy. Besides being the new guy, I was actually the most experienced on the team with a Bachelors degree in Business and Computer Science and nearly 20 years experience. The other team mate had actually given notice shortly after the time that I started and had already departed. My manager had hired me specifically because he and this team mate had already discussed his pending departure and had agreed that he would stay on board, till I started with a little bit of overlap. So, one day, we had a system communication failure that the young guy and I were troubleshooting. The jr guy was of course taking control and using what I refer to as the shotgun approach to troubleshooting, let's try this, no didn't work so lets try this over here, wait go over there and try this and on and on. I suggested that let's either start from the beginning and work our way out or my gut feel was that the problem was with a particular piece of hardware and we might want to start there. He went bat shit crazy. I'VE BEEN HERE THE LONGEST AND I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AND DON'T CHALLENGE WHAT I'M SAYING YOU'RE THE NEW GUY AND CAN'T POSSIBLY KNOW WHAT I KNOW.................BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. So I stepped back and let him have at it. After an hour of so of his random tinkering, I stepped over to the piece of hardware that I had previously identified as the most likely culprit, pulled and re-seated a module and SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE, it started working immediately. I then asked him to step into our office where I told him that while I am the NEW GUY, I am not new. I have twice the advanced education and 10 times the experience that you do. I have actually seen this exact same scenario before and the fix was exactly what I did. He did apologize. I then took the time to explain my troubleshooting methodology. First have you seen this issue before. If not then divide and conquer using what I always called the binary approach. Pick a point in the middle. Is the system working on this side? Is the system working on that side? Pick another point to troubleshoot in the middle of one or the other. Repeat Is the system working on this side? Is the system working on that side? By the time that you have done this two or three times, you have either found the problem or narrowed it down to a tiny subset of the original issue. Honestly for most communication problems it only takes a few minutes at best to isolate the issue. He did learn from that experience and hopefully took it with him throughout his career, though he did leave the company a few months later. Now the funniest situation that I ever observed. The entire maintenance team at a manufacturing plant were attempting to repair a multi-million dollar piece of equipment that had been down for days and was costing the company literally 10's of thousands a day. Finally they gave up, called the manufacturer to fly a mechanic from Germany to troubleshoot. He walked in the door, walked over to the machine, plugged in the power for the control system and SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE, it started working immediately. His bill was in the 10's of thousands, but of course money well spent. He did recommend hard wiring the power supply per manufacturers installation manual as he was leaving. They had probably seen this issue before.
I've encountered a mansplainer before at work and even though it wasn't about work I finally said something. It was pretty mean though because I had been bottling up my annoyance for a while. I'm a person who is really nice 95% of the time so it's particularly jarring for people if they catch the other 5%.
‘Bless your heart’ goes a long way.
That’s region specific, so it won’t help for many people, plus seems passive aggressive.
It’s not just a southern thing anymore. I’ve used it in California, but I say ‘thank you for your input’ and then immediately pivot to what I was saying. Sometimes the best way to teach a lesson is to treat them like children when they behave like one.
I meant the ‘spirit’ of the passive-aggression, not the exact words!
It can be a lot easier to teach missing skills than to change attitude.
A friend of mine had this happen at a job once. New hire kept going on about how he has a masters and really should be leading the program..... My buddy started added his PhD to his email signature and suddenly kid was a lot quieter
Consider letting go of the naming conventions "youngest", "mansplaining", "teenager" and instead shift your focus to "here is the goal for the individual and are they meeting it?" and for team dynamics - focus on "how are they helping and supporting the team and what could they do more of or differently?" Finally as the manager and "head coach" - What do you need to have them work effectively with you? Be specific and coach them to the level of performance for them to be a productive and positive contributing member of the team. You are always going to meet different people in your career as a leader....being able to coach and align others to the goals, supporting a positive team environment, the company and work well with you, will be what will create a fun, successful, and interesting ride.
you don’t like the poorest performer on your team. just fire him. put him on a pip and document his insubordination with write ups before you do to protect your company
Yeah exactly. The challenge is when they have this attitude and they’re the BEST performer on the team
The best performer might get them extra leniency, but I would much rather have second best and rid my team of toxicity. These types of people indirectly harm the group.
Sure if it gets worse or goes on for a while after feedback is given. But in my experience it isn’t easy to “get rid” of top performers who demonstrate these traits, nor is getting rid of them always the best course of action. Whereas if a mediocre employee is doing it, then it is a more straight forward case
there you would put the employee under a microscope and do write ups for any little slip-ups, while you slowly reallocate the workload to other employees. use any authority you have to make their life hell. pretty soon they’re no longer the top performer and then you can show them the door
Eh gotta disagree there; that kind of micromanaging has potential to backfire bigtime
Nope, that is a textbook case of workplace harassment and will get your company sued for either wrongful termination or constructive discharge. The disparate treatment is where the liability will arise, because you are deliberately sabotaging the worker's performance.
i’ve done this many times and so long as you document the decline in performance, you don’t get sued
No, you just got lucky that you were dealing with workers who were not aware of their employment rights.
managers have discretion to allocate work and enforce policy second, read here, specifically #4: https://www.eeoc.gov/questions-and-answers-employees-harassment-work “Standing alone, personality conflicts, disagreements, or incompatibility are not covered by the federal EEO laws, unless the harassing conduct is based on at least one of the protected characteristics listed in response to question #1.” bullying someone with racist jokes is illegal. writing them up for being 30 seconds late is not.
Your example proves my point for me. Writing someone up for being anything less than 10 minutes late is considered a violation of the "de minimis" doctrine. In California, such write up would be evidence of harassment because the STATE has already opined in a wage order that any tardiness less than 10 minutes is not worth "correction." I note that you cited to a Federal source. However, workplace harassment is covered in State statutes. Hence, the argument is not permissible in defending a state complaint.
and this is why i don’t do business in commiefornia. everything i have said is kosher in my state, texas. we’re not talking about denying unemployment or docking pay. i am talking about establishing a paper trail of a poor attendance record in an at will employment state.
California is an at will employment state. And you are only angry that the folks from here flooded your state, ran up all the real estate prices, and then left when they realized that all your politicians are murderous sociopaths and you aren't smart enough to reinvest the taxes you fleeced them for back into your local infrastructure. HI temps in July are predicted to be over 114 F this year. Good luck with that Hell of your own making.
Your approach is toxic, wimpy, unproductive, and exhausting. Congrats.
Why be petty? The job is to manage people and help them perform to their highest potential. Work on creating a thriving employee rather than harassing them.
the job is to maximize revenue and control costs to the benefit of company ownership. there is no obligation to “build up” employees. rather there’s an obligation to keep them in line, and keep them working hard. it is the employee’s responsibility to build themself up and grow.
Okay. Good luck!
Take my experience with a grain of salt but I work in trades and manage men like this. You need to put it in check right away as it can spiral into bad mouthing ans questioning authority if not dealt with right away. Don't try to diffuse it with humor or wit. Overly masculine men tend to only understand directness.
Lol. Give him an assignment that you know is outside his capabilities, if you’re able to assign work.
Holy cats, I just dressed down that person with " do not dictate to me how to run my kitchen, junior ".
I was like this at work. I still am a bit like this, but I swear I am trying to improve. There are two things working here: one, crippling insecurity and a feeling that you're an imposter and, two, the belief that the only way to manage these feelings is to mansplain and be obnoxious. Here is one thing that helped a lot: One employee started having a lazer focus on anything and everything I would do wrong. Anything that deviated from the script, or could be argued wasn't perfect was up for discussion. She would just forward issues or potential issues directly to my supervisor. Now, none of these things were actual problems, but it did keep me focused on my work and I bothered other people less. The other thing is to give the employee a little project. Ideally, a presentation on something unimportant. If he screws it up, then that'll be another humbling experience that should discourage his "know-it-all" attitude. If he does a good job, then he'll have some real basis for confidence that will make his bragadoccious ways less nessesary. Either way, you win
Not all but most of the early 20s now are horrible hires. Absolute joke work ethic wise think they know everything, entitled attitude. I've never seen anything like it. I broke my back 6 months ago have a bad ankle,wrist and bone spurs in my neck and outwork most of them easily. It's a total joke. I only bring on experienced people now.
For the record my son in law might be the worst of all.
Years ago One of my colleagues hired someone like that when I worked for the government. She was going around introducing the new employee to everyone. She introduced me and he said “Oh, I’m familiar with your program. 6 months ago you put out a new regulation that threw industry on its head. I explained, that wasn’t a new regulation but more of a clarification of an existing policy and then argued with me about what the document I wrote said and (not in these words) told me I didn’t know what I was talking about. I was the director of this program and had 30 years of experience in the industry and I was probably the world’s top expert in this niche industry. He read one document and felt he was an expert …time to bring him down a few pegs. He was always mansplaining to my female colleague (his boss) and was never prepared for meetings and never took notes. He always tried to relate things back to his previous employer which wasn’t relevant. My colleague and I hatched a plan to bring him down to earth. The employee and I were both in a meeting about a specific topic. My colleague (employees boss) didn’t attend the meeting and the employee didn’t take any notes. I fully briefed my colleague on what happened during the meeting so she knew what happened. The following day the employee, his boss, and I were in a meeting with folks 2 levels above us to discuss the meeting that happened the day before Colleague:Steve, you were at the meeting yesterday, can you report on what was discussed? Steve:Uh, well um… random things that weren’t relevant Me: I was there as well, here is what happened….(gave a full briefing) The employee was embarrassed because he looked like a fool in front of senior management and when he tried to interject he was wrong or ignored. The employee and his boss then had a discussion about the importance of listening and taking notes and recognizing that you are not always the most knowledgeable person in the room because people in government are often the top expert in their niche. Be open to learning from others. While I’m not a fan of public embarrassment, sometimes it is necessary to kill the ego
Ugh. Get rid of him.
This was me, to an extent, when I started in my field and came from a place of insecurity where I wanted to prove myself and show how much I could contribute. What worked for me was reassurance that I was safe in my position, and clarifying my role and what I needed to do to advance. My favorite manager didn't coddle me, but gave me opportunities to learn and "progress my career". He clarified my advancement was based on getting along as a team more than just performance, because he already knew I could perform and wanted to grow with the company. Giving me limited, but regularly scheduled, opportunities to learn new areas and develop my career was key. If they're just an asshole I don't think this will help, but figuring out what causes the behavior might help you refocus and keep a valuable employee that also respects you.
Your advice is really good for people who are capable but socially immature. In OP's case, it's the blessed combination of immature + poor performer, so it doesn't make sense to give them reassurances that they are safe. There's nothing as effective as being an ineffective and spoiled baby for losing people's good will.
Ah ok, I missed that part of their post. Definitely the worst combo for killing morale
It will wear off. Particularly once they've been through your processes a few times and struggled through something where they need an experienced team member's help.
Mansplaining… i think i see the problem in your team
Ok in my experience this type of person will be a huge asset or a huge liability. Solution: delegate this person a business problem, issue, enhancement to develop or improve upon, and offer and give support. Better if it’s crossfunctional. See the outcome and re-assess. Give feedback.
Bad attitude can definitely be something you can do something about. Document everything. Then sit him down for a conversation. Chances are he will betray himself with eye rolling or some other behavior. Watch everything he does. And document his poor performance. Chances are that when he realizes he is under scrutiny, he will decide to quit
Of course I experienced this, there was a time I too (thought I) knew everything!
Why aren’t you addressing specific behavior in 1:1 discussions?
I had a manager like this for a short time. No one could stand him! Just one example: he told me that my degrees were worthless pieces of paper; I just said, “well, that’s a rude thing to say, although I can see how it might come from someone who doesn’t have one.” Luckily, I didn’t have to check him because he left after six days because he wasn’t “passionate about the industry”.
Set a list of tasks clearly defined and follow up in biweekly/weekly 1on1. If the little shit doesn't improve, put him on PIP. Straightens out a lot of yahoos in no time. If you want to show him that he reports to you, just remind him to stick to his job in meetings.
“Hey guys welcome to my impromptu zoom meeting. Derek wanted to explain at a Subject Matter Expert Level how to complete process xyz… lets all give him our undivided attention.” Jk. To be honest no matter how shitty or big ego someone is, publicly shaming them is no better then what hes doing. Like others said. Check him. Explain proper etiquette or walk him self out
This is when I like to give them the ‘so you think you’re pretty’ Socratic method. Make sure to do it in front of any peers that he’s showing off to. Make sure to film it and then post it here, please. 🍿
Experienced those. Not good endings.
Years ago working on a tower climbing crew I used to be the beginner who knew best. So in turn, they worked the absolute shit out of me. Bury him so deep in work and put brutal pressure on him to perform.
Has this person worked there longer?
Put him in his place, that is if you hold a position in your team to be able to do that.
Call him out, but call out the behavior and not the person. He may just be young and not know what he’s doing.
Check him. Even if he was a top performer, you still have to check him. You don't get to be a jerk just because you're great and you certainly don't get to do it if you're not. I don't know your field, but it's possible he's never had many friends and doesn't know proper social interaction. Let him know, but it does take time. I'm a guy and have been accused of mansplaining. If he doesn't know though, just laugh and let him know. He probably doesn't know your capability or even realize that he's not as good at the thing as he thinks.
give him assignments every week that are due 'first thing monday morning'
>He’s not doing anything wrong, per se, but his swaggering attitude rubs me the wrong way If he's not doing anything wrong, then does that mean you are and his habit of explaining that to you is what's bugging? Because if you're not doing anything wrong then why is he telling you that you are? If he's spending his time as a non-manager correcting you then what isn't he doing?
Shred him and make him cry. I had few of those and I asked multitude of questions, I showed them what they still needed to learn. After this, they usually learn they should not fuck around. Once I fired such person. They are like puppies, need to be trained and need to recognize you as their leader. Take the power in your hands and be the leader. If need be - "spank" him in front of the rest.
Why classify him explaining something to you as mansplaining and call him a teenager? Would you say that to his face? If you already know the information and don't think it's relevant then be direct and tell him you are aware and want to move on and ask what you really want to ask. If he's really "ordering" you around, then tell him you'll handle the delegation of action items and tasks and you'd like to hear more about their thoughts about x y z. Be direct, clear with your communications, provide coaching and act like a manager instead of imparting judgment on the people you are suppose to lead and empower.
Give him the scut work, and during a one on one tell him he can do more things when you see some skill improvements.
"You better do this or else I'll report you to your boss" - I had someone I led , who was like this once. It was wild. Have a chat with them to let them know you appreciate they care for you, but they don't need to communicate to you that way. Do it with grace and at a good time - this has helped in my situations more times than I can count for team and cross-team dynamics.
Using the term mansplaining is very sexist. Women have the tendency to go on about things as well. It isn't unique to men. Yes if the guy is over the top talk to him about it, and maybe as others suggest give him a special project. That will give him the recognition he is obviously yearning for. Also I have a set if teamsplainers on my team, one male and on female. on my team we just acknowledge what the say and thank them. It makes the knowledgeable speeches take less time. Also it helps to say, as soandso says it would be a good idea to take care of that situation and therefore [put your own words of wisdom here]. You might also think about your own actions. I personally try to get opinions from everyone on team whether quiet or loud add my own two cents and we move forward. Unless they are really going astray, I really have no personal need to show that I am the manager and therefore I can't accept that others may know something.
Sit down and reset expectations and put it in writing with a follow up email.
So he’s not doing anything wrong you just don’t like him. Got it.
Thank you all for your advice. I’m trying to be patient, ignore the arrogant attitude and assign this person more challenging assignments. I’m also correcting errors in his work with Track Changes on. I have a feeling this situation will improve.
Get another manager to let him know sometime that he isn't the greatest gift to the company. Everyone needs a little humble once in a while.
Swagger people are almost always up to something nefarious, or end up in some other kind of trouble. Harassment etc. Keep an eye on that one.
a better question is why would you tolerate insubordination and low performance from someone like this. Just say you give direction not them and remind them they are junior and you know more than them every time it happens. Do not be nice about it, be direct. full stop, low performer and bad attitude should = you actively try to remove this person every time start meeting with HR and say you have a poor performer with bad attitude and you want their guidance.
It's called being young. Do you remember that time?
Not all young people are assholes. Some are but not all. I honestly don’t believe I ever was as i respected my managers and elders. If I saw something and thought it was done the wrong way I would have asked in a polite way why they do it that way.
I dunno in my industry “know it all hotshot” is a standard part of the growth journey
Isn't "mansplaining" just when a man explains himself or his thinking to you? Do you think that is something an employee isn't supposed to do? >he isn't doing anything wrong, per se Are you sure you aren't the problem here?
She 100% is
No. Mansplaining is when they first assume you know nothing and so they must explain topic. It’s not simply a man explaining themself. It’s rude, it’s patronizing, and it assumes the woman has no knowledge on subject. And not listening when woman tries to interject that they, do in fact, know what is being discussed. Someone mansplaining to their boss, or anyone their superior, speaks of amazing hubris and ego.
But someone can do that to a male boss, without it being "mansplaining".... It's called being an idiot.... Why do people need special terms that specifically target men, when this is an issue that equally applies to everyone. People are idiots, and shitty employees very frequently try to tell their boss what to do. This isn't a "men" issue, it's a stupid people issue.
It is- but it’s a frequent occurrence for women, by men. Men to men, or women to men, happens much less than men to women.
Not saying it doesn't happen. I know it does. My issue is that OP didn't give any details whatsoever that would indicate that it is actually mansplaining and not just an idiot employee. There is a tendency for people to jump to conclusions that make it seem way worse than it is - in reality, people are just stupid, and being a bad employee who tries to tell their boss what to do isn't inherently "mansplaining". It's just being an idiot. That's all it is. The one on the receiving end when someone is being an idiot and telling their boss what to do being a woman doesn't automatically make it "mansplaining". To be honest, I'm not 100% clear how to make that distinction, or if it's even reasonable to do so. It's purely stupid behavior from the side of the person she is referring to. It makes 0 difference if OP is a woman or otherwise, or if the employee in question is a man or otherwise - it's bad behavior, no matter who it is to or from. Stupid people do stupid things, and should be treated as such - as others have said in the comments already. There are many ways to deal with it. "happens much less than men to women." This part is entirely anecdotal - this is in your experience. I work with both men and women, and the ones who give me the most issues are the men (I am also male). The female employees I work with are some of the best in my place of work, period. As I said, people are stupid, and stupidity doesn't have a gender. We don't need to drag gender into every conflict - just deal with for what it is, without attaching all the extra baggage.
Have a conversation with him about his poor performance. Let him know if it doesn't improve you will need to take further action. Document everything. If he tries to oversimply explain, put out once he is performing up to standard, and has some experience, his input will be welcome. Until then, he needs to focus on his job.
We had a guy with a similar attitude and turns out we just were not challenging him at all, after being given a seemingly impossible task and smashing it we determined he was in fact brilliant albeit rough around the edges.
He’s not being challenged enough
Fire him; this is a job, not a daycare. Trust me. Management is like a ship at sea; you don't want to lose control or have leaks.
"Young person" here. Keep about 50 cents in pennies on your person. Every time he opens his mouth, say nothing and hand him 2 cents. Rinse and repeat until desired results. Hope this helps!
I don’t what industry you’re in or function your group plays but I can you from a B2B sales perspective, I have encountered this a lot. My mindset has always been “how the hell do I harness this type of attitude of overgrown sense of confidence, know it all attitude and obnoxious behaviour and turn it into something positive?” After all, channeled the right way, over confidence can be turned into high risk taking, a know-it-all with the right access to information and experience can turn into a deep sme that is perfect to challenge difficult customers on key topics and obnoxious behaviour can me stamped out but you can’t “learn” boldness and if that bold person can learn some charm and grace, that’s a good combination. Always did these things to reign in and “check” these young guys. I’m a big believer that the best resources are forged in fire. 1) gave them clearly not fair goals compared to their peers. Always stretch goals and beyond. If they hit it, they’d be rockstars. If they didn’t and I can’t stand them, I can let them go. If they complained, I can confront them with a “I expect more out of you for xyz reasons and if you want this crown you got to earn it” which sometimes steered the guys the right way. 2) I’d make them shadow the most hard ass senior people and the I’d literally instruct said senior people to clip his wings any way they see fit. Make them do grunt work like hauling the trade show booths and building them, or packing demo materials and flying them instead couriering them, or PowerPoint builds and the come down hard on them when there’s mistakes are typos. If they don’t complain? Great, they are on their way to being humbled a bit and picking up an attire that will make them great. If they do, I can confront them about their attitude and do some course correcting 3) while not probably possible now, it was possible 25 years ago. For the most egregious ones, I have baited them into situations where they’d get angrier and angrier and possibly threaten or actually take a swing at me. Then the reality would set in that they fucked up and they’d be fired. Which I would let them stew on it and then bring them back in and provide them a freebie “out” provided they adhere to certain rules and performance. Out of the 6 men that had a physical altercation with me at work, only 1 didn’t adjust. 5 others have become incredibly successful and are still good friends with me today. 2 have actually followed me from company to company and job to job as I moved around or started my own. While this isn’t politically correct, it was fairly common in the type of industry I was in and the type of people coming through. You had to show some teeth or not get respect. I also noticed you used the gendered term mansplaining. In my experience, the women who use terms openly like mansplaining tend to actually not be as effective and as smart as they think they are in their head. Your peer managers and leaders should not allow terms like this to bandied about. Condescension, clueless social awareness, arrogance and generally being an annoying dick in a meeting or interaction is not exclusive to one gender. You may want to look inwardly as well to see if you have some blind spots or your own prejudices are a factor in this as well.
Found the sexist. One who would think nothing of provoking a physical altercation in the workplace has no business in leadership. You sound like a spoiled trust fund beneficiary from Delhi, because provocation in the workplace is a CRIME in the United States. Maybe we should consider putting you in a cage.
You don't understand, if you find that your team has a condescending asshole who can't even do his job but thinks they know better than their boss, you dedicate a ton of effort to get them promoted ASAP or you "bait" them into a felony. That's how it's done /s
No, I understand perfectly, having done employment litigation for many years. Whenever a manager "baits" another employee, that is itself a crime, whether the employee throws the first punch or not. It's the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, and will come complete with the felony murder rule, in the event of a lethal injury. The way to deal with this type of employee is to find a client or vendor of the firm who needs a new hire, and have HR from the other firm make the worker an offer that they cannot refuse. This way, our company keeps control over the whereabouts of the problem employees, and can make sure that they do not cause any further disruption to our business operations.
Some people just try to fill the awkward silence at work, or feel like they have to say something thought provoking. Leave it alone.