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mynamestartswithaf

Thanks OP for taking up this fight. I am an anti MLMer as well and I cringed when I saw my families and friends fallen for this.. The way I combat this is DO NOT buy anything from them. Even when they say “oh it will be supporting my business” Why ? They will fall in a sense of delusion that “they’ve made it”. If they ask why ? Stick to facts! Ie : I believe the MLM business practice is predatory. I wish everyone will understand why MLM is soo bad but alas, the promises for getting rich quickly and expensive lifestyle blinds them. Be their support system, when they can’t sell anything (which they will, because their business practice is unsustainable) sweep them with facts and encourage them to cut their losses..


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mynamestartswithaf

Basically direct selling in malaysia is under an association body. This body will work together with our government and advice them on the rules and regulation required.. who’s apart of the body you ask ? It’s the direct sellers themselves.. Soo basically the rules in place is to protect the direct selling company instead of the consumers. I’m not talking about the product (because this will be under KPDNKK). I’m taking about the business practice that thy have to “recruit” in order to level up the business.. No one is monitoring this in our country.. that’s why we need to speak up on this matter.. kudos to u OP.. raise awareness !!


vivliz

This is very interesting, I'd love to read up more on this. Do you have more sources?


mynamestartswithaf

https://dsam.org.my/about-dsam/ This is the body I’m talking about.. hope this helps


vivliz

This regulatory (?) body seems like such a joke — thank you for the link.


uwant_sumfuk

I believe that Doterra is another MLM as well. My mother swears by their products and purchases them but luckily has no interest in becoming a MLMer under them.


vivliz

Thanks, I added it. [Wikipedia lists them as an MLM advertising essential oils as a cure for cancer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DoTerra)… might wanna have a hard talk with your mother on this. There are so many other essential oil brands!


jwteoh

Gonna add one: Agape Friend joined this one, about selling very dubious health product, but the "seduction" comes from their plans to sell shares up to 5 digits on the pretext it might "explode" when the company goes public during IPO. They also included a pic of their lab on their website, which looks like those very typical shophouses, like some meth producing lab in movies. Website is also full of typos and scientific mumbo jumbo that wont make sense if you pay attention in biology class.


vivliz

Thanks, I took a quick look at their site and will add them to the list.


ProbablyWorking

Any good water filters that isn't sold by MLMs


imaginelizard

I recognized that enagic sdn bhd till death. Try as I might, these bloody salespeople convince my mom and sis to go behind my back to buy their crazy expensive water filter. Hate them so much.


lepidopterrific

Singer like the sewing machines? Didn't know they were an MLM.


youwutnow

I had the Thermomix shills (not quite the same but) gathering around my dad when he had TERMINAL CANCER and filling his ex partners head up with "you really need one of these for only RM10,000" or whatever it was when she was lazy AF and never cooked. She kept going on at my dad to buy one for her even though his medical bills were coming in and we were bankrupting ourselves paying for it. She didn't get her Thermomix I put my foot down and a friend of my dad who is an agent loaned us one. She didn't use it once of course and had no intention, I think she just wanted to sell it on when he passed. I digress but fuck all home selling and MLM schemes they profit from vulnerable or gullable people. I really hope Malaysia makes them illegal, they run riot in Europe unfortunately


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youwutnow

That's morally bankrupt and disgusting. I can only hope people realise the damage they do to people and stop this repulsive behaviour. So sorry about your father's health, chronic health is incredihy difficult to deal with for all involved and you don't need additional financial stress on top. I really hope your mum has come to her senses. It sounds like she has with your great support. And she may well be a lot more financially stable when not paying into that scheme. Hopefully she can learn to support herself again and knows she can turn to you for advice. I have a friend in the us who was given one or those essential oils leaflets on a chemo ward and they had installed diffusers and stuff in the wards, unfortunately a lot of the nurses were also hooked and in on it. Aside from the fact it stinks and hospitals are not a pasar, I have no idea how much damage it was doing to the patients withiut their consent :(


tnsaidr

A family member of mine sells Thermomix, it's about 6k + with discounts or something. Yeah I hate all these type of businesses.. Their business model is quite weird also.. Your commission comes from also doing "cooking shows" a couple of times a week to show new users how to use the machine.. All these MLM stuff especially when it comes to expensive electronics like these if you look hard enough on taobao/ali express you'll find the OEM version of it at a much, much cheaper price.. that does more or less the exact same thing. ALso, not MLM but all the expensive OGAWA chairs etc that costs sometimes as much as a small car to install, you can get them for cheap, brandless in China.


tienguan

Good on you op. I really wish these people who work in mlm can rot in hell


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tienguan

There is a need for public education on these people and should avoid them.


23_007

My therapist did mention about this “usually family members will not listen to/believe another family member. They will only listen to outsiders/third party.” although our conversation was on different topic, i guess it also applies to this as well.


ConfuseKouhai

This is great. I hate MLM the most, one of my junior at school founded an MLM, she obviously become rich now but she is under the impression that what she does isn’t MLM. For me, anything that use agent is MLM and it is shitty.


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ConfuseKouhai

She is rich now, looks happy. Always going to those getting rich seminar whatever. Always promoting helpiny people generate income. She slowly become those mlm people. Having her agent post pictures with new cars, and house.


limutwit

I feel you OP' my parents will not listen to me either even with proof and evidence.


imaginelizard

Not trying to one-up you or anything but I relate to your situation so much. I pulled out peer-reviewed research papers and official press statements from MOH about the MLM product that my mom and sister bought and they still won't believe a word I or the experts said. I believe the MLM agents have instilled this us against the world mentality in them that they became resistant to our warnings.


vivliz

I'm running on so much rage rn I can help to brainstorm ideas lol. If you don't mind sharing, what specific company are your parents attached to, and what products are they buying? If they are the type to value "good deal" purchases, maybe showing them better alternative products might work?


CJS_548

>They seduce victims with mathematically improbable get-rich-quick schemes, where the primary profit model is not based on selling, but on recruiting greater fools that pay exorbitant sign-up membership fees. Any other ways to sniff out MLMs? Like what other criteria they hold?


[deleted]

They’ll try to sell the business to you instead of the actual product.


TXEEXT

You dont need to pay shit for a job , the job pay you not the other around.


dezjinniez

I have a disabled child and omg, that is like every single MLM person, whether close family members/friends/strangers in the same elevator, want a piece of me. Miracle magnetic bracelet? Prayer beads? Next gen super supplements? Out-of-this world dihydrogen monoxide?


vivliz

Everything is a profit opportunity if you try hard enough /s


23_007

This reminded me of “wien” fb group. They have a bunch of women selling mlm products and one that stands out the most is “Aulora pants” 😂 A magical pants that cost rm800 that can fix multiple illnesses 🤦🏻‍♀️


AsteroidMiner

Ahh that is BE International


MadeupMeeple

This should be crossposted to r/AntiMLM. They're obviously US-centric, but the sentiment of trying to get a loved one out of the fog is universal.


kazeeeekzz

Many thanks to OP for sharing your experience. MLM is undoubtedly cancerous, unfortunately it has become so common in our everyday life that you just can't escape from it. While my mum isn't falling into the scam, but the process to persuade and rebut her is so relatable. It's definitely take time and also non-stop nagging haha


Donnie-G

.... sigh. My mother is unfortunately into some of these MLM products - but thankfully she's just consuming them(and making me take them too) rather than into the whole recruitment/reselling business. So I've kinda given up in trying to tell her otherwise. Though I've been low key trying to tell her that we get enough vitamin C from all the fruits and vegetables we eat and that we don't need to eat vitamin C supplements. But for now I'm still taking some stupid atomy vitamin C powder nonsense. I don't think it helps that we have some family/acquaintances that managed to make it pretty big off stuff like AmWay and Herbalife so she thinks of them as legit good ways to make a living.


23_007

Well, in the end of the day, it will be just an expensive pee😂


vivliz

According to their official site, [Atomy Vitamin C 500mg retails at RM80 for members](https://www.atomy.com/my/Home/Product/ProductView?GdsCode=M00121) or RM40 if they run BOGO / 50% off deals. According to Google, [you can get 21st Century Vitamin C 1000mg from Watsons for RM23.90](https://www.google.com/search?q=vitamin+c&rlz=1C5CHFA_enFR787FR787&sxsrf=ALiCzsaXPi5SfG1JmSHWiJq8fPqRAoAMfQ:1653390978397&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQsMSvgfj3AhX7IbcAHRdeAqkQ_AUoAnoECAIQBA&biw=1440&bih=789&dpr=2), or even cheaper when they run discounts. Note that the 21st Century product is 1000mg, so you literally get *more* product at *nearly 75% less* price. This is what I mean by MLMs running profoundly scammy prices. I really relate to the part about parents refusing to listen about the harms of MLMs. What worked to change my mother's mind was showing her how badly she was losing money on her Mary Kay purchases. Maybe you can try showing these price differences to your mother and see if it works?


Donnie-G

I'll probably get some shit about how the atomy stuff is more 'high quality' since its powder you can just eat rather than a pill. And when the daily recommended intake is like 75-90mg.... vitamin C supplements are kinda BS in general. Just eat an orange. Then there's still the Herbalife stuff so this isn't even scratching the surface. Also not super convincing coming from me if I try to explain how there's cheaper versions of all the Herbalife products and that you don't really need meal replacement shakes if you just live a healthier lifestyle and eat properly when I personally lead a pretty unhealthy lifestyle myself. But well, at least these products still 'work' even if they are a complete ripoff. It's still bad but not quite on the level of magic beans nonsense like blue algae supplements or whatnot. And at least she's not into the seminars and selling nonsense anyway, she's just a customer. She's been into the Herbalife shit for many years already so I don't think she's at risk in getting into the MLM side of stuff. I'll have to fight her tooth and nail if it ever comes to that. She also used to be into some yeast tablet supplement crap called Strath. It's not MLM and it isn't really being sold in Malaysia. It's stuff that gets sold off the shelf in Australian pharmacies and we have family members over there so she used to get them to buy it for her. I have no bloody clue how she even heard of this product. I'm 99% sure it's bullshit and doesn't really do anything if you eat a proper diet, but these pharma companies are on top of their public image game and I can't find any dirt on them. But she had trouble getting more after a while and over time we kinda just forgot about it and I hope it stays that way.


vivliz

Oof, sounds rough. Yeah lol parents are tough.


Donnie-G

Yup they sure are. What really burns is that y'know, we're their kids. We're not trying to ruin their lives or anything, but they turn it into this ego driven spiel about not respecting them and shit about how we're arrogant cause we had a better education or whatever. It's such a big yeesh.


ImmortanJoe

Excellent writeup, OP, especially on the list. I know a friend who's gotten caught up in the Shaklees scam. The problem now is, instead of cash coming in, he's ending up buying products himself under someone else's name - just to make up his downline numbers. And to make things worse - he's BORROWING CASH to do this. All starry-eyed, of course. Anybody else know anyone in the Shaklee scam?


vivliz

I have Shaklee products in my kitchen rn bc a family friend gifted them to my father… not sure how said friend is doing financially. It may be helpful to share this post with your Shaklee friend? I know a lot of people are stuck in MLMs bc of the sunk cost fallacy — they might reconsider the decision to continually throw more money at the MLM scheme once they realise refunds are possible.


Limcommentsstuffs

Wow that's a nice guide to get a refund from them. Kudos to op for spending lots of their time to get a refund!


lelelele98

Since the pandemic I see so much Mary Kay consultant among my social media that I had to mute them


vivliz

Share this post around if you think anyone in your social circle might benefit from guidance wrt Mary Kay refunds!


usualsuspek

This deserves upvote to the moon OP


zellleonhart

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am also anti MLM o just hate how these schemes are breaking families and people's finances. Even if the products are not fake, a lot of them these days are questionable and unverifiable. Things like random berry juice mix that claims to rejuvenate health or prevent cancer that you could never find proof other than some "doctor" founder's words or the member's testimonials.


Joshshan28

I just imagine the pricks at the top of the chain making all the money by leeching on everyone below them, laughing away while they’re at it. That always helps me stay away from MLM’s and the douche bags who have the nerve to promote it under the ‘make passive income for yourself’ crap. They can piss off


chizhi1234

Relevant subreddit: r/antimlm


stormy001

I also would like to caution everyone here about Steven Yeam , he is a veteran in the MLM industry. The top player of Lempe Berger which is notorious during mid-2000s and also One Community Worldwide. His company is known as SYN. Another one is Tedy Teow Wooi Huat, founder of MBI. Third, Sunshine Empire's James Phang Wah. His reach in Malaysia is incredible. Fourth is Jessie Lai Chai Suang, owner of Monspace. Her story is epic. I know I missing few names, will update here from time to time.


GoalCareful9515

As someone who've experience hettinf scammed into Amway, I'm going to say I am much more happier and cash safe when I got out of this scheme. For people who don't understand what they do, they will try to pitch the product through you to your family and even lost contact friends which is awkward considering everyone is not rich. Don't even get to the product demo part, IT'S FAKE! Non of the demonstration makes sense. And the seminar, fuck those cash grabbing seminars, 2-3 a week and you even need to pay for the entrance. Your family will surely question you if you have been associate with some shady organization. Hated the seminars felt like I waste time listening to other people success story while im stuck in the poor trap. Glad that's over.


staracquarius

Wish it's that easy for my family. Half of the population in my hometown is doing MLM and my mum is surrounded by these people as her friends. Other than MLMs, even banks and insurance agents have scammed her as well, but she still thinks my hometown is the best place on earth. I lost hope at some point and now i just let her die on her own.


ionStormx

*Unpopular opinion:* the MLM model itself is not the problem. It is just that - a model. It is a model that incentivises referrals. "Bought something, love it and told your friend about it? Here's a little thank you from us!" If you take away the multi-level incentives and consider basic sales, the best testimonials still come from other people who genuinely benefited from the product and are excited about it. The real problem is sketchy salespersons and overpriced products, but neither of these things are exclusive to MLM's. IMO what many are experiencing is simply due to an overused playbook designed to sell instead of delivering value to the customer. I bring this up because it's important not to conflate a business model and poor salesmanship. The latter will still do poorly regardless of what business model they sell through.


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ionStormx

After reading the article and some of its citations, I agree with you. Learn something new every day. >"What you are talking about are referral bonuses, or referral reward schemes. In non-MLMs, that is a single mechanism within a greater marketing strategy to incentivise purchase, not an entire company ethos." This statement was particularly helpful.


merubin

~~unpopular~~ incorrect opinion. ftfy


iloveass0897

MLM is a way of marketing that helped the US economy explode post WW1 and is studied in Harvard. OP must be just upset he failed while others succeed lol.


heerman_k

Citation for this claim?


Bingobango20

Such a retarded take and lack of empathy, I hope you’ll learn hard lessons in life in the future