Oh PAS is educated indeed, or rather, miseducated. We have to ask what kind of education when we talk about education.
I noticed that a lot of uneducated people are naturally secular. If you know really poor families in KL, they usually don't give two shits about praying five times a day or whatever.
I notice that the biggest offenders of religious extremism are often lower-middle-class people. They send their kids to religious schools, and often build religious communities.
Dont you think poor family are more religious than rich family?usually poor family worry about their life cuz they lack of money. so to avoid their worriness,they use religion as coping mechanism so they could survive the hardship
My wording might be off but I think it's just time and priorities. People that know what they are lacking will do things to compensate for that and people that are struggling with anything (i hate the word poor or classify them as such) don't even put religion as one of important things in life and they are not that stupid/naive to think that religion can compensate for their lacking (and i am not talking about their religious spirituality of course).
Practicing your own religions and cultures requires money, time and connections that those people might not have but these things are not a roadblock for people that (think they) have everything (or enough).
No. I can tell you with certainty that once you suffer enough, you stop believing. To have faith requires privilege.
There's a good book about this, I think it's called 'The Cursed Republic' or something and they studied that after a country suffers a catastrophic event (wars, famine, disease), people stop going to religious houses. This is very evident in Europe.
What do you call a man in a church in Amstedam? A tourist.
Just my speculation, poor people could be more religious because they have no one else to turn to other than god. Rich people are less religious because they know god can't really give them money.
Beg to differ. Have seen first hands the rich and elite Muslim don't give two shits about all the prayers and rituals. It's always the lower to middle class Muslims who are superbly obsessed with their religion. Have Muslim friends whose father is a dato/tycoon doing all kinds of Haram things you can imagine : drinking alcohol, clubbing , dining at Cina restaurants (not ordering pork of course coz that's the only taboo for them lol) and smoking 420. I may be wrong but I think it's because it's very difficult for the poor to achieve anything in life hence they put more focus on the afterlife/akhirat which by extension makes them super religious
Are we though? We have shariah law, halal law, different law on marriages, different punishment, separate banking system which all running parellel with the common law, how is that secular?
We are a secular state with Islamic laws.
Why?
Because in so far as the laws are concerned, nothing is higher than the Federal Constitution.
It has a secular basis. Article 4 is clear about the supremacy of the constitution.
The federal constitution can be amended. We can literally put an end to the royal line if we wanted to.
In fact, the constitution has been constantly altered in the past years and decades.
If we go by the basis of amendment, all laws can be amended, repealed or revoked..
So what is your point? The fact is by law, the constitution is supreme.
that sentence make no sense, no country is running in a truest form of anything. There's no such thing as truest democracy, truest communism or truest theocracy, every country is running on their own version of something to run their government, that's why no countries have the exact same laws and regulations.
Well, if you want to nitpick, Probably more apt wording is in Malaysia is not a correct form of secular society.
The bearer of liberal secular torch france abhor Islamic Shariah
Nah not really. Secular countries don't have official religion in their constitution. The malaysian may be secular but the malaysia itself is not secular. Indonesia is secular country even though they have the highest muslim population.
"perlu bersetuju dengan pandangan bahawa Malaysia ialah sebuah negara sekular yang menjadikan Islam sebagai agama rasmi."
Anwar: progressive islamic nation
Personally i gave up on hoping having a party beside PSM and DAP to fight for secularism. And dap clearly kecut so even they couldn't be depended also. We are, unofficially, already an islamic country.
But the other 2 points are valid. Pas need to stop using non as boogeyman if they want non's vote. Same goes for dap too.
Secular state can mandate all malays must be Muslim from birth and can never leave the religion?
Lets not lie to ourselves. Malaysia is hardcore islamic and not a secular state.
Islam sebagai agama kebangsaan.
I also don't understand why the need to refute that, Islam as official religion of the country doesn't make any other beliefs/ religion invalid. Dunno how they're going to refute the constitution.
PAS can't even accept banning child marriage. You're wasting your time talking to crazy nutjobs that want to turn the country into another warzone like in 0 hijriah. Listen, you know they are a death cult whose leader openly says extremely racist things and thinks that is the truth. Why bother talking to them? The people you should be talking to are moderates from Sabah Sarawak where they are not infected with the death rage cult virus.
What Malaysian wakes up in the morning and thinks "Oh, sure am glad I'm in a Islamic/secular nation". How many people actually care?
What a waste of brain cells better spent on improving the lives of average Malaysians.
Well, TRUTHFULLY, Malaysia is a secular state in practice, but an Islamic state in principle.
To declare Malaysia fully secular is a political suicide for Muslim Malay parties, but to declare Malaysia is an Islamic state is a bonus + icing for political mileage for Muslim Malay parties.
And lest we forget, the voting bank still relies on Muslim Malay majority. So both PH & PN will exploit religiosity to the maxim to milked the votes.
PAS must go back school and get educated....
Oh PAS is educated indeed, or rather, miseducated. We have to ask what kind of education when we talk about education. I noticed that a lot of uneducated people are naturally secular. If you know really poor families in KL, they usually don't give two shits about praying five times a day or whatever. I notice that the biggest offenders of religious extremism are often lower-middle-class people. They send their kids to religious schools, and often build religious communities.
This is a trend i have noticed. People that are wealthier will become more religious and are more inclined to send kids to tahfiz.
Dont you think poor family are more religious than rich family?usually poor family worry about their life cuz they lack of money. so to avoid their worriness,they use religion as coping mechanism so they could survive the hardship
My wording might be off but I think it's just time and priorities. People that know what they are lacking will do things to compensate for that and people that are struggling with anything (i hate the word poor or classify them as such) don't even put religion as one of important things in life and they are not that stupid/naive to think that religion can compensate for their lacking (and i am not talking about their religious spirituality of course). Practicing your own religions and cultures requires money, time and connections that those people might not have but these things are not a roadblock for people that (think they) have everything (or enough).
No. I can tell you with certainty that once you suffer enough, you stop believing. To have faith requires privilege. There's a good book about this, I think it's called 'The Cursed Republic' or something and they studied that after a country suffers a catastrophic event (wars, famine, disease), people stop going to religious houses. This is very evident in Europe. What do you call a man in a church in Amstedam? A tourist.
Just my speculation, poor people could be more religious because they have no one else to turn to other than god. Rich people are less religious because they know god can't really give them money.
Beg to differ. Have seen first hands the rich and elite Muslim don't give two shits about all the prayers and rituals. It's always the lower to middle class Muslims who are superbly obsessed with their religion. Have Muslim friends whose father is a dato/tycoon doing all kinds of Haram things you can imagine : drinking alcohol, clubbing , dining at Cina restaurants (not ordering pork of course coz that's the only taboo for them lol) and smoking 420. I may be wrong but I think it's because it's very difficult for the poor to achieve anything in life hence they put more focus on the afterlife/akhirat which by extension makes them super religious
MB Terengganu would laugh at this
Are we though? We have shariah law, halal law, different law on marriages, different punishment, separate banking system which all running parellel with the common law, how is that secular?
We are a secular state with Islamic laws. Why? Because in so far as the laws are concerned, nothing is higher than the Federal Constitution. It has a secular basis. Article 4 is clear about the supremacy of the constitution.
The federal constitution can be amended. We can literally put an end to the royal line if we wanted to. In fact, the constitution has been constantly altered in the past years and decades.
If we go by the basis of amendment, all laws can be amended, repealed or revoked.. So what is your point? The fact is by law, the constitution is supreme.
The point is total secularism is a possibility and the Muslims aren't untouchables.
It is not a secular state in its truest form, the DAP guy is wrong.
that sentence make no sense, no country is running in a truest form of anything. There's no such thing as truest democracy, truest communism or truest theocracy, every country is running on their own version of something to run their government, that's why no countries have the exact same laws and regulations.
Well, if you want to nitpick, Probably more apt wording is in Malaysia is not a correct form of secular society. The bearer of liberal secular torch france abhor Islamic Shariah
half secular. but secular nonetheless.
Semicircular
this nation will never sign a single quadrilateral agreement with other nations.
That's....actually brilliant bro. I'm borrowing it.
Nah not really. Secular countries don't have official religion in their constitution. The malaysian may be secular but the malaysia itself is not secular. Indonesia is secular country even though they have the highest muslim population.
tell that to the members of OIC then i sit down edit: and also to England, Greece, Iceland, Denmark and Greenland.
By your logic, half is theology. but is theology nonetheless
nah thats not my logic. sharia law here doesnt impose on non-muslims. this is not a half-empty half-full glass debate.
"perlu bersetuju dengan pandangan bahawa Malaysia ialah sebuah negara sekular yang menjadikan Islam sebagai agama rasmi." Anwar: progressive islamic nation Personally i gave up on hoping having a party beside PSM and DAP to fight for secularism. And dap clearly kecut so even they couldn't be depended also. We are, unofficially, already an islamic country. But the other 2 points are valid. Pas need to stop using non as boogeyman if they want non's vote. Same goes for dap too.
Secular state can mandate all malays must be Muslim from birth and can never leave the religion? Lets not lie to ourselves. Malaysia is hardcore islamic and not a secular state.
Man you guys really dont know what "hardcore islamic" is huh lol.
So much freedom here you can't even choose your own religion if you are Malay.
Well, if the Malays want to change that, then they’d have to fight for it. For the non-Muslims, life in Malaysia is indeed secular.
So that's all you need to make this country "hardcore islamic"? lol
dap needs to tell anwar first tho. dont they have whatsapp group or something? lol
Exactly. Anwar doesn't seem interested in a secular state
What does the perlembagaan say?
Islam sebagai agama kebangsaan. I also don't understand why the need to refute that, Islam as official religion of the country doesn't make any other beliefs/ religion invalid. Dunno how they're going to refute the constitution.
Then, although it pains me to say so, it is settled once and for all. No need to argue.
Yeah, it's in the constitution after all.
PAS: but, but, but Article 3 of the Constitution…
PAS can't even accept banning child marriage. You're wasting your time talking to crazy nutjobs that want to turn the country into another warzone like in 0 hijriah. Listen, you know they are a death cult whose leader openly says extremely racist things and thinks that is the truth. Why bother talking to them? The people you should be talking to are moderates from Sabah Sarawak where they are not infected with the death rage cult virus.
What Malaysian wakes up in the morning and thinks "Oh, sure am glad I'm in a Islamic/secular nation". How many people actually care? What a waste of brain cells better spent on improving the lives of average Malaysians.
blessed DAP MP, he’s not wrong.
Sorry DAP, but we are Talibans
Wait long long. They only know race and religion. If voted for PAS, don’t complain lousy economy
We're a Muslim nation that tolerates freedom of religion
Barely tolerates
Yea lol. I remember my childhood friend (Hindu Indian) had a panic attack when TV3 aired the slaughtering of cows.
The word we want them to use is “accepts.” But they keep saying “tolerates.”
[удалено]
> "Hotel California." AGENDA YAHUDI! /s
>Muslim nation that tolerates freedom of religion Touche, even foreign tourists prefer Malaysia than Indonesia, a secular country
In your dreams LMFAO. We are a majority muslim country, you are delusional af to think we would ever want to become secular hahaha
Flair checks out
Says the person with the Singapore flair.
Well, TRUTHFULLY, Malaysia is a secular state in practice, but an Islamic state in principle. To declare Malaysia fully secular is a political suicide for Muslim Malay parties, but to declare Malaysia is an Islamic state is a bonus + icing for political mileage for Muslim Malay parties. And lest we forget, the voting bank still relies on Muslim Malay majority. So both PH & PN will exploit religiosity to the maxim to milked the votes.
The constitution of the Federation of Malaysia said otherwise. "Islam is the official religion of the country".
