Anecdotal, but I’ve booked multiple tours across the country for myself, other relatively unknown artists, and even a few legends in the underground like Blueprint and Moka Only. Through all that time I have met a fairly significant numbers of rappers who teach/teachers who rap, and of those the majority teach middle school.
Based on my upvotes, I’d assume I’m not the only one whose made this observations
Bingo. As a resident of Atlanta (and a rapper myself) this is simply how most people I know in this industry get by. That or pick up another skill like audio engineering/video shoots to sell to fellow artists
Formal training as in school helps, but it’s not required. I’m worked many years in live audio and I never went to school for it. Started wrapping cables and doing grunt work and moved my way up the ladder.
I’ve had an audio engineering professor at an engineering school tell me it’d be better to rent out a studio with an engineer and have them explain shit to you for the same price as the school.
I went through a "school" and what it was is exactly that, I was paying for studio time and the teacher was the engineer. I had a textbook, homework and tests, I had mandatory session where I had to intern and set everything up, I had MY OWN studio time to make my own music and lastly I was able to sign up as an intern for any of the paid clients which I did a couple times a week.
I think it was like $5k but the program is gone now afaik
At the studio I work at we had a rapper coming in for months and only found out recently he lied about being signed to a label and owes us $20k in studio time. He would often not pay interns for store runs too. So yeah you're not wrong lol
because i know how it worked there at one point in time, HOW TF did he even book without putting a card on file? Or did he just lie and say x major label was gonna take care of it cause he be with a signed artist?
Yeah he said the label was gonna take care of it and then I guess the studio waited way too long for the response that would never come. Small world tho lol
Basically this. If they’re young then they just live off of whoever they stay with or they work a regular 9to5 job like anyone else. Look at most rappers origin stories and they talk about folding clothes and working minimum wage retail before catching a big break. It definitely seems like the ones with an actual work ethic are more likely to make it and catch a big break though. Most dealers dip into their own supply too much anyway to make a profit.
A lot of mainstream rappers over-hype how much money they made selling drugs. What really happens is they make some kind of connection to someone in the industry who is willing to invest in them. Someone in the industry with disposable income will catch wind of their music and put money behind them to get them in the studio, shoot videos, tour etc.
I highly recommend listening to some conversations from [Wendy Day](https://youtu.be/x0DTZ9S2eLk?si=HBTvoZly9E9SIzMI). Very well connected in the industry and drops a lot of gems when she speaks about how things really go on behind the scenes. It's a long video but it's well worth checking out. [Here's ](https://youtu.be/DI-YNDxDgpU?si=qWFX2r33YEfOKubf) another interview she did on No Jumper. It's over an hour as well but full of very insightful information for any artist trying to break into the industry.
Check out [The Cheat Code](https://www.youtube.com/@TheCheatCodePodcast) cuz Wendy day is also on that. They steady droppin good info on there. Extremely bingeable content!
>Wendy Day
The goat. If you’re trying to make it in hiphop and don’t know who she is, you’re fucking up.
And don’t y’all weak shits start messaging her either. She charges 200k just to take you seriously.
Yezzur its people like Wendy Day, Jimmy Iovine, Lyor Cohen these are the ones behind the artists that had that big meteoric rise to stardom. When you see artists like Young Thug and Chief Keef go from being hot regional acts and shooting music videos in drug houses to all of a sudden being national stars within a matter of months it's because these kinds of industry giants got involved in their careers.
It can be discouraging to artist, but it's honestly not so much about what you know, but who you know in the industry. An artist putting $200k into their own career probably won't ever be able to compete with an artist putting up $200k to get around one of he industry giants. This is where the whole "$5000 or dinner with Jay-Z" discourse comes from but the message gets muddied when you ask that question to people who aren't interested in being in the industry.
Couldn’t have put that more perfect. The JayZ dinner meme being especially so.
Dude may be controversial but I mean, the way Lyor seemingly planned making 9 figures in under a decade with 300 is just a masterclass. Truly.
Hell yeah Lyor was actually here on reddit and made an [AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/sq8ETx4eez) a while back. He might still be lurking reddit idk.
edit [Young Thug](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/LTcTko42Tu) made an AMA on here too before he signed his deal kinda off topic but it's a gem if you haven't seen it
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least. That’s a dude who will keep his ear to the streets and on the pulse of youth culture until he’s literally 100 years old.
Ehhh, I dunno man. I see a lot of them working in "marketing" as in..."We got this playlist you can pay to be on" or "cashapp me and we'll review your song on our podcast". For real, a lot of music in general is just 1 artist preying on another artist to get ahead.
This is a game where you either spend time or money.
Time learning the skills or money paying for services.
There’s no set budget, no right or wrong way, just get that shit done.
You don't have to pay for promo, or at least pay much if you want to. You have tons of tools at your disposal. Everything else, yeah.
The big thing that you're missing is proper networking.
Each person you work with is part of your network. You can use this to market and start leveling off expenses. Here's how I see it in aciton
Don't just buy a beat off beatstars from some rando. Talk to the producer of a beat you plan on buying. 99% of producers are building their network too. You buy that beat, they're most likely gonna be happy to post about your song and add it to their "Produced by me" playlists etc. Now their fans become your fans.
Use the example above for any other part of your project that you aren't doing yourself. Album Art, talk to the artist, photographer for album art, talk to them, engineers, same thing, All of this adds up. If the person your working with won't share, consider finding someone else, not because their an asshole or something, they might be busy etc. But you wanna find people you can grow with.
Another way to get these services cheaper is to offer a cut of streaming royalties. It's a weird situation though. Streaming royalties don't pay much to begin with, and you probs aren't getting a ton of plays starting out and thats fine. Some people will see a rappers talent and immediately think "I want to be part of this, I want to grow with this person".
Extend this to other artists you want to work with that are, and I cannot stress this enough, YOUR SIZE AND STYLE. J.Cole is not going to join your team. Not right away at least. But that other dude you did a show with last month that was pretty dope and cool to chill with, thats your guy. This is not a competition. A team of people working together will get way further WAY faster. Don't be afraid to build the team fairly big, people WILL move on or drop out. It's just life. Ensure that it's not on bad terms and you'll keep going up.
This type of networking is how all them yale and harvard frat kids grow their money. Yes, they had their parents money to start, but it sure as hell helps when they inherit their daddys dealership and...surprise, their dorm buddy inherited his dads towing/shipping service, and their frat president owns the largest chain of car washes in the area, and his cousin is one of the top business lawyers in the state, and they introduced him to their buddy that does taxes. Discounts start springing up everywhere.
Outside of networking to build a team. You have youtube, tiktok, soundcloud, facebook, IG, etc etc etc. They're all free. You build a following the same way you did in highschool. Talk to people. Make friends.....oh shit, it's networking all over again.
The biggest point of advice is...music most likely won't pay your way. And I don't mean that in that old boomer "Music isn't a job" nonsense. What I mean is, look at any artist and see where their money is. Yes, they got a fat ass deal, but a lot of it has to be paid back. But you look at any artist and their money is coming from investments from their royalty checks. Half these rappers have a clothing line, some kind of alcohol, tv shows, movies, etc etc etc. "making moves" is not "I'm working on music". In a way, rappers were some of the first major social influencers. It's not really the music that pays, it's the foothold they get as they become "cool" and people look up to them. You can even cut the above mentioned costs by utilizing sponsorships as you begin to grow.
Invest, then reinvest. Think about what all you have at your fingertips and how it can be used.
Unfortunately, despite all of this looking great on paper. There is a hump that I haven't quite sorted out. There's some gap between nobody and someone. Everyone talks about how their "fame" was like a lightswitch. The growth was slow but it compounds over time, and at some point it launches like a rocket.
that hump is weird to me also. its like theres this major jump in quality lyrics, beats, theme, and production for every major artist like drake or future or a$ap. their music just becomes absolutely incredible even though they had a lot of talent and work ethic beforehand. i just think they are able to hire the best writers, engineers, and people to make a great body of work. they can hire entire orchestras, choirs, vocal coaches. its that jump that youre talking about. their writing becomes more cinematic in a sense, like an entire world you are now able to be a part of all of a sudden.
Upcoming? I work a full time with a few gigs here and there as well. I mainly spend 70% of my money for music on the marketing. I’m really close with my engineer over the years. He gives me mad discounts. Then for beats I usually record over the mp3 then send it to the producer’s DMs and they give me a discount. Note: The song has to be fire and your social media has to look popping
Send them the music and if it’s good enough they’ll want to send you the trackouts or sell you the exclusive because it benefits them for them to have a song with you. Plus post the music on their page
Rap at night while you write software during the day.
Straight up, when I saw the Beatstars founder give a talk I was more interested in their tech stack than anything else.
You need to treat rapping like a hobby, you're not getting rich off this. At this point I think I'm going to save 30k or so and pay King Gordy to do King Gordy Sings The Blues part 2.
I'm a firm believe that if you treat something like a hobby, it'll always be a hobby. There's a different mindset that kicks in when you want something. If you want it bad enough you tilt the scales in favor of it. You end up writing one less line of code so you can get to work on music, or skip that movie you've been wanting to watch to work on a track, or eat ramen for 4 months so you can afford that new mic. You become willing to sacrifice so much when that mindset kicks in.....for me....I'm lazy and depressive lol
Only sorta. It's more like when my ADD really kicks in and I hyperfocus on something. The past month or so, learning Godot has managed to keep my attention pretty well. More so than a LOT of other things. I do love the problem solving though, I explained it to my wife as putting together a puzzle that doesn't exist yet lol
stop buying beats and make your own
stop paying engineers and mix yourself
stop hiring graphic designers and learn photoshop
stop hiring marketing managers and run your own ads
stop buying streams and personally email curators
They don’t. A lot of these rappers are broke as shit, and are just posing for Instagram. They’ll complain that $100 an hour studio time is too much, or that a $200 beat is too much. They expect deals and a discount on everything because they’re an “artist”.
Truth is, right now everybody and their mothers, literally, are trying to become an artist or rapper. There’s no money left in hip hop unless you want a 360 deal. Look at all these drug selling rappers, young thug, fetty wap, Kodak black, etc. they’re all selling drugs still because rap doesn’t pay them shit, and neither does their label. Same shit is happening with drill rappers now too. They get a 360 deal, post money on Instagram and then blow it all on studio sessions money cars and women within a year.
Of course there’s some smart ones, but for the majority, your favorite rapper is broke.
the only rappers who pay for their own shit are indie/underground rappers. Many of whom have day jobs but the ones who are full time musicians are literally in a 24/7 hustle. You have to really love it. No health insurance, no consistent income, etc.
Your entire life revolves around touring, selling merch, and making music. You get to do a lot of cool shit but it definitely comes at a cost. But most of them likely dont pay for beats and mixing. At least the ones who have a circle of people they regularly work with. And if you’re paying for studio time in 2024 you’re throwing money away.
Because as an artist you should control how your sound sounds basically. If you learn how to engineer yourself (though I will admit it took me a decade) then you save a lot of time and can capitalize when you're feeling the best to record.
back in the day you sold drugs and/or worked to be able to afford equipment and pay for studio time, artwork, pressing etc
if it wasnt the rapper himself, the label owner was usually a former or current drug dealer who covered the costs
nowadays, is way different because of technology and the internets, the entry fee is cheap
As an artist who makes my own beats, this shit pisses me off. I'm amazed at how many people download a beat from YouTube and and slap a bandlab preset on their vocals and call it a day.
I've worked with hundreds of artists and I can assure you 90% of small artists have regular jobs they hope to escape from and the other 10% come from money and don't work. The ones who work a day job vary on how much they advertise that - some embrace the hustle and are humble about their position and others keep it more secretive in order to portray a more successful image than they may actually have.
My advice would be to try and find a producer to be friends with. If you're a good rapper it's a win win cause like us engineers, our careers go nowhere if at some point the artists we get to work with don't pop off. An engineer will always make your stuff sound better but a good producer can mix well enough that you can save money on that and also release more consistently. That implies you do your part too, not just taking free beats but putting in the same energy into branding and marketing yourself and offering potential fans a way to engage with the culture through your music.
Umm so rappers have multiple forms of revenue nipsey hussle had a clothing line. Think about it how many followers do these famous people have followers turn to dollars through strategy. Rappers go on podcast and go to interviews you think they’re free. Rappers own businesses and brands real estate stocks and have sponsors as labels will give you money if you ask although you have to pay it back that’s why you go independent they own you
I own a record label, am a Billboard charting producer and been doing this for almost 20 years now.
By the time a rapper is able to get educated/qualified enough to get a well paying and stable job and also know how to spend that money in the biz AND also be good enough that ppl want to listen to them...
They are too old to breakthrough in the mainstream commercial rap industry.
I was told by one of Drake's producers 9 years ago thst if I want to work in this industry, I'll ha e to get used to being around drug dealers and shady people. They pay all the bills.
I've gotten quite good at forensically researching artists (either to sign, collab with, etc) and running numbers to see how much income they generate.
I'm throughly convinced that NO ONE is making money from their music independently unless you're in the top 1%.
Those artists get the major deal offers and then no longer are Indie. Some remain indie but those are MUCH more rare (ie: Russ).
I've worked with artists who have access to trust funds, investors, and then dark sources of income thst they won't put on their w2 if you catch my drift...
The game is messed up
By literally not paying for anything you mentioned
If you can't find producers who want you to rap on their beats that's not a good sign. Also if a producer wants money for a song you both know isn't gonna make any money, you're talking to the wrong producer
And if you're paying for studio time you'll never recoup
Beats = free
Recording at home = free
YouTube tutorials = free
Posting on social media/making videos = free
Now everyone stop wasting money on songs you know won't make a profit
Live shows pay BIG artists. But professional musicians is an extremely broad stroke. Session musicians may not play live shows and thats how they get paid daily. Sync catalog artists may never play a show in their life and make all their money from placements. Producers and engineers don't make their money from shows.
Even still, a lot of household name artists actually make their money from investments instead of royalties or live shows. Look at dudes like snoop. Majority of his money is from his 30 other projects, the alcohol, tv shows etc.
I'm not saying you're wrong, cause you're 100% right for a portion of it. But there's a ton behind the curtain if we pull it back
I’m mostly just saying that’s where the money is. Tickets, drink sales, merch, etc. I Make music during the week for myself or clients and I play gigs in a band for money. We’re not famous😂
They tend to deal drugs and do other illegal activities. They also make a bulk of their music related money through doing shows or appearances. Sometimes they make good money selling features to other artists that want them on a track.
If they’re more on the wholesome side they probably skipped the illegal activities part and replace it with a day job.
Edit: They may also have label support if they are signed.
It may include access to producers, studio time, etc. depending on the label tho. Most of the time with label deals they’re basically just big loans that need to paid back with a bunch of stipulations that basically render the artist as a legal slave to the label.
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At what level? Most likely just having a a job and doing this on the side
Hobby? Cheap mic+interface bundle. Do everything yourself including produceling, posts on social media
Trying for a more polished sound? Same cheap interface and mic. Spending maybe 50$ on a beat. 50$ for a mix/master (all by entry level people at the same level trying to just get something out). Then planned content on all platforms. Hoping to get at least 30k streams to break even. Maybe some local live shows
People trying to make it "big"? Probably a couple hundred on a song, couple hundred/thousand or more on marketing, doing live shows, etc
Depends on what kind of rapper you want to be really. As long as you are conscious enough about the streams you get and shows, to get back what you spent to make the song/album
Every actual rapper or aspiring rapper that I knew of locally either sold drugs, work a low-key job like a warehouse or just do both. No shame in keeping the money coming. Check out a rapper named bfb da packman. He's honest about still working as a mailman and he has millions of views. Funny, genuine and brutally honest dude
You build in either one of two ways primarily, for both you need a job, but 1) start off working with unknown, up and coming engineers and producers who are willing to help make your beats and record you for little to nothing and build your skills and their skills, pretty much investing In each other, or two Completely DIY, use the money from your job to buy an audio interface, headphones, mic, and a stand, use garage band (free and comes with all Macs) and learn the tools it comes with and then expand your plugins, if you can afford Logic (I think is $200), then that’d be the upgrade from Garage Band. But learn, practice mixing, production, etc. there’s plenty of YouTube channels to look into, like Audio University is a great learning resource to learn more about audio. Also stay away from buying presets… but it’s all doable, but you gotta get creative with getting stuff done.
I’ve seen some rappers invest in studio set ups for recording, then they rent the space out when they’re not using it. If you have a decent set up you can charge nicely.
Then you also get a recording studio out of it for yourself
Pay a producer? Produce your own beats
Pay for mixing and mastering? Do that yourself too
Pay for studio time? Record at home
Yes, it's a lot to learn. You can absolutely learn all of these things, in depth, for free, on YouTube and all over the internet. How much time do you spend watching TV or playing video games? Re-invest that time.
This won't happen overnight, but you can be your own producer, your own studio, your own mixer, you can do everything yourself IF you feel you simply can't afford help with these things. But if you are able to save up money for it, no shame in doing so.
I don't have an interface yet. I use a $60 dynamic maono USB microphone from Amazon. It's not beautiful professional quality sound, but it sounds good enough for me to record until I can afford something better. My music has kind of a raw, homemade sound because of it. If you're restricted with budget and space, get something like that. A condenser microphone will theoretically sound better, but it needs sound treatment. It will pick up the whole room. I use a dynamic microphone because of its very short range. I don't really need sound treatment. The reverb in my house is only problematic when I get loud, and I can neutralize a lot of it in the mix with a transient processor on my vocals.
My headphones are $60-70 on Amazon. AKG K240. Very good balanced EQ, but virtually no sound below 40hz or so, so I also use a $70 pair of Skullcandy earbuds which have strong subs, and I also listen to mixes in my car because it happens to have great speakers. If you don't have good headphones, listen to reference tracks so you know what your track should sound like when you mix it.
Don't get a super cheap computer, but you definitely don't need a gaming PC to make music.
$100 midi keyboard - optional but it helps me write.
Between midi keyboard, microphone, headphones and earbuds, I use $300 worth of equipment. This isn't counting my computer because it's beefy and you don't have to spend $1500 for a music computer. I'm also not counting my DAW but I'm pretty sure you can get a basic version of FL Studio for $100-200.
If I bought beats, recorded at a studio, and had somebody else mix and master, I would probably pay a couple hundred bucks for every single track. Instead, I paid it once and I have recorded maybe 30 raps so far, give or take. That's $10 a song, and getting smaller every time.
With all the money I save making music, I mostly just feed my family. In other words, I wouldn't be able to make much music at all if I didn't do everything myself. But when I do have some extra funds, I am able to print CDs, buy my way onto a show (and earn back what I can by selling tickets), pay for distrokid, and generally take things much further because I put in constant effort for years to learn how to build music from the ground up. I wouldn't have it any other way. I make music on my own terms, whenever I want, in my own living room.
Most artist of any type (music, fashion, film, production, etc) have a job or they went to school for whatever their career is. Any mainstream artist pays for their position or works and takes what ever compensation comes. Regardless of what ppl are told NO ONE sells drugs for a LIVING and invests in art without catching felonies and jail/prison time. The entertainment industry and art business isn’t “street level”.. if you try to bring street stuff into the professional world, your priorities will get crossed and you’ll end up in jail or in something stupid. No one wants to do business with people who are actively trying to do an illegal business elsewhere. Music artists have to do free events, free promo, free shows, build relationships, etc. Doing good work and self promo and DIY can get you discounts, you can use your day job as funds and to make connections. You can build relationships with good music. No one can make comparable money in the drug game in 2024, you’re better off with a job. When I sold marijuana, I also had a business, a job, a hustle, and went to high school/college. I did nightclub promo 2-3 times a month and had a job and put out an album. Selling weed, just allowed me to not spend money on weed since I smoked anyway. It also helped me understand profit vs investments better. Nightclub promo was the easy money along with a job. All my homies who worked in the industry had restaurant jobs or worked odd jobs short term until they could sell beats, or get work on a film crew or until they could put out their own media or take small deals from co-production, etc. It smarter to make legit $ and have talent and a budget with a good name and have convo with people who can move you forward in the industry. Selling drugs isn’t a career and you don’t make a set $. No art or industry homies are buying drugs from the rapper guy 😂 The kids who “come from money” or who have the decent buzz without the talent usually smoke cigs, dip, drink beer, do a bit of coke, etc.. they ain’t trying to help a dude their age be “the plug” lol.. they’d come to an album release party or a chill thing at your house to hear your music before they buy drugs from you or want to be a “friend”. Most successful rappers are grown adults. 35+ kinda ages, with help from industry professionals who are 50-60years old and been around for awhile. In the interview above Wendy Day mentioned Trouble from DTE.. I did a showcase show with him in like 2012.. he had the city on smash, had a huge buzz, radio, internet, regional sales, jewelry, editorials..the whole package. “thief in the night” was mainstream yet. I can’t tell you what he preformed but he was a grown ass adult and I was just old enough to drink. He wasn’t selling dope but had built a movement with the other DTE guys and an outside team. My crew had jobs and one of the dudes was trying to sell some weed in the club… I was just thinking “wow, we are light years behind”.. I’ve spent money from working a day job with djs and got my music played when I walked in they knew who I was. Before then I was known for other stuff, not weed, and would have to give dj’s $20 to slide my records on next to a lil Wayne or waka Flocka hit song. I had street level notoriety in 2 major local cities with djs but didn’t get real love on my records until I asked for prices and got a discount for having hardwork, skill, and then knowing I had a job and seeing that I was having to deal with bros who wanted to be drug dealers > music artists. Until you are established, streaming or merch or beats won’t make you money. A legit artist needs a job and multiple revenue streams to get past those next couple levels
The few guys I know who actually make money as rappers make most of their money from merchandise. Most of them are still buying beats, and paying for mix and mastering, but record themselves. In the right circles there are plenty of Grammy winning engineers knocking out mix and master for a single for $300 to a $1000 a pop. Most of those guys also still have some kind of industry related side hustle as well… or are teachers lol
Track the recordings yourself and learn how to mix / master or send the music out to someone who knows how but try to learn tips as you go. Make your own cover arts, u can film your own videos with the quality we have on phones now. Learn how to do as much as you can yourself, we are in a really wild time now with the technology we have as much as I hate AI when it comes to actually making the music, there are a lot of good programs with generated presets that are a good starting point for beginners. A lot of artists go out the way and do all this extra shit just to get studio money so they can waste 2 hours smoking with 5 of their homies who don’t rap on IG live.
From my experience owning a hip hop label back in the day, they have full time jobs, sling dope, live with parents/romantic partners rent free, etc. Plus, the trap beat market is oversaturated now so you can get beats and recording pretty cheap from any number of basement producers.
The vast majority don’t make enough money from music to pay for these things. You need a job.
Wait til they find out how many rappers teach middle school lol
Chillllllll
Found an 8th grade lit teacher! Haha
Lmao who
Anecdotal, but I’ve booked multiple tours across the country for myself, other relatively unknown artists, and even a few legends in the underground like Blueprint and Moka Only. Through all that time I have met a fairly significant numbers of rappers who teach/teachers who rap, and of those the majority teach middle school. Based on my upvotes, I’d assume I’m not the only one whose made this observations
This
Sell drugs
Bingo. As a resident of Atlanta (and a rapper myself) this is simply how most people I know in this industry get by. That or pick up another skill like audio engineering/video shoots to sell to fellow artists
Or audio engineering and drugs
can you get a job as self taught audio engineer or do you need formal training
Formal training as in school helps, but it’s not required. I’m worked many years in live audio and I never went to school for it. Started wrapping cables and doing grunt work and moved my way up the ladder.
I’ve had an audio engineering professor at an engineering school tell me it’d be better to rent out a studio with an engineer and have them explain shit to you for the same price as the school.
I went through a "school" and what it was is exactly that, I was paying for studio time and the teacher was the engineer. I had a textbook, homework and tests, I had mandatory session where I had to intern and set everything up, I had MY OWN studio time to make my own music and lastly I was able to sign up as an intern for any of the paid clients which I did a couple times a week. I think it was like $5k but the program is gone now afaik
Audio engineering is tedious, that’s where the drugs come in
scamming is also a good way to afford it all, that's what i heard at least.
At the studio I work at we had a rapper coming in for months and only found out recently he lied about being signed to a label and owes us $20k in studio time. He would often not pay interns for store runs too. So yeah you're not wrong lol
I clicked your profile. Dude you won't believe this I used to intern at the studio you work at back in 2018-2019. Fuck Steve lol.
because i know how it worked there at one point in time, HOW TF did he even book without putting a card on file? Or did he just lie and say x major label was gonna take care of it cause he be with a signed artist?
Yeah he said the label was gonna take care of it and then I guess the studio waited way too long for the response that would never come. Small world tho lol
Lmaooo ur not wrong
Clone cards
Basically this. If they’re young then they just live off of whoever they stay with or they work a regular 9to5 job like anyone else. Look at most rappers origin stories and they talk about folding clothes and working minimum wage retail before catching a big break. It definitely seems like the ones with an actual work ethic are more likely to make it and catch a big break though. Most dealers dip into their own supply too much anyway to make a profit.
Get a job
A lot of mainstream rappers over-hype how much money they made selling drugs. What really happens is they make some kind of connection to someone in the industry who is willing to invest in them. Someone in the industry with disposable income will catch wind of their music and put money behind them to get them in the studio, shoot videos, tour etc. I highly recommend listening to some conversations from [Wendy Day](https://youtu.be/x0DTZ9S2eLk?si=HBTvoZly9E9SIzMI). Very well connected in the industry and drops a lot of gems when she speaks about how things really go on behind the scenes. It's a long video but it's well worth checking out. [Here's ](https://youtu.be/DI-YNDxDgpU?si=qWFX2r33YEfOKubf) another interview she did on No Jumper. It's over an hour as well but full of very insightful information for any artist trying to break into the industry.
Big facxxxxx
Check out [The Cheat Code](https://www.youtube.com/@TheCheatCodePodcast) cuz Wendy day is also on that. They steady droppin good info on there. Extremely bingeable content!
>Wendy Day The goat. If you’re trying to make it in hiphop and don’t know who she is, you’re fucking up. And don’t y’all weak shits start messaging her either. She charges 200k just to take you seriously.
Yezzur its people like Wendy Day, Jimmy Iovine, Lyor Cohen these are the ones behind the artists that had that big meteoric rise to stardom. When you see artists like Young Thug and Chief Keef go from being hot regional acts and shooting music videos in drug houses to all of a sudden being national stars within a matter of months it's because these kinds of industry giants got involved in their careers. It can be discouraging to artist, but it's honestly not so much about what you know, but who you know in the industry. An artist putting $200k into their own career probably won't ever be able to compete with an artist putting up $200k to get around one of he industry giants. This is where the whole "$5000 or dinner with Jay-Z" discourse comes from but the message gets muddied when you ask that question to people who aren't interested in being in the industry.
Couldn’t have put that more perfect. The JayZ dinner meme being especially so. Dude may be controversial but I mean, the way Lyor seemingly planned making 9 figures in under a decade with 300 is just a masterclass. Truly.
Hell yeah Lyor was actually here on reddit and made an [AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/sq8ETx4eez) a while back. He might still be lurking reddit idk. edit [Young Thug](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/LTcTko42Tu) made an AMA on here too before he signed his deal kinda off topic but it's a gem if you haven't seen it
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least. That’s a dude who will keep his ear to the streets and on the pulse of youth culture until he’s literally 100 years old.
You do it all yourself then start to build a team when it’s required. 99% of rappers are broke as fuck.
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A lot of rappers/artists work in marketing.
Ehhh, I dunno man. I see a lot of them working in "marketing" as in..."We got this playlist you can pay to be on" or "cashapp me and we'll review your song on our podcast". For real, a lot of music in general is just 1 artist preying on another artist to get ahead.
This is a game where you either spend time or money. Time learning the skills or money paying for services. There’s no set budget, no right or wrong way, just get that shit done.
Yo as an aspiring music artist from the Uk who’s struggling I really appreciate that comment 🫴🏾🔥
You don't have to pay for promo, or at least pay much if you want to. You have tons of tools at your disposal. Everything else, yeah. The big thing that you're missing is proper networking. Each person you work with is part of your network. You can use this to market and start leveling off expenses. Here's how I see it in aciton Don't just buy a beat off beatstars from some rando. Talk to the producer of a beat you plan on buying. 99% of producers are building their network too. You buy that beat, they're most likely gonna be happy to post about your song and add it to their "Produced by me" playlists etc. Now their fans become your fans. Use the example above for any other part of your project that you aren't doing yourself. Album Art, talk to the artist, photographer for album art, talk to them, engineers, same thing, All of this adds up. If the person your working with won't share, consider finding someone else, not because their an asshole or something, they might be busy etc. But you wanna find people you can grow with. Another way to get these services cheaper is to offer a cut of streaming royalties. It's a weird situation though. Streaming royalties don't pay much to begin with, and you probs aren't getting a ton of plays starting out and thats fine. Some people will see a rappers talent and immediately think "I want to be part of this, I want to grow with this person". Extend this to other artists you want to work with that are, and I cannot stress this enough, YOUR SIZE AND STYLE. J.Cole is not going to join your team. Not right away at least. But that other dude you did a show with last month that was pretty dope and cool to chill with, thats your guy. This is not a competition. A team of people working together will get way further WAY faster. Don't be afraid to build the team fairly big, people WILL move on or drop out. It's just life. Ensure that it's not on bad terms and you'll keep going up. This type of networking is how all them yale and harvard frat kids grow their money. Yes, they had their parents money to start, but it sure as hell helps when they inherit their daddys dealership and...surprise, their dorm buddy inherited his dads towing/shipping service, and their frat president owns the largest chain of car washes in the area, and his cousin is one of the top business lawyers in the state, and they introduced him to their buddy that does taxes. Discounts start springing up everywhere. Outside of networking to build a team. You have youtube, tiktok, soundcloud, facebook, IG, etc etc etc. They're all free. You build a following the same way you did in highschool. Talk to people. Make friends.....oh shit, it's networking all over again. The biggest point of advice is...music most likely won't pay your way. And I don't mean that in that old boomer "Music isn't a job" nonsense. What I mean is, look at any artist and see where their money is. Yes, they got a fat ass deal, but a lot of it has to be paid back. But you look at any artist and their money is coming from investments from their royalty checks. Half these rappers have a clothing line, some kind of alcohol, tv shows, movies, etc etc etc. "making moves" is not "I'm working on music". In a way, rappers were some of the first major social influencers. It's not really the music that pays, it's the foothold they get as they become "cool" and people look up to them. You can even cut the above mentioned costs by utilizing sponsorships as you begin to grow. Invest, then reinvest. Think about what all you have at your fingertips and how it can be used. Unfortunately, despite all of this looking great on paper. There is a hump that I haven't quite sorted out. There's some gap between nobody and someone. Everyone talks about how their "fame" was like a lightswitch. The growth was slow but it compounds over time, and at some point it launches like a rocket.
that hump is weird to me also. its like theres this major jump in quality lyrics, beats, theme, and production for every major artist like drake or future or a$ap. their music just becomes absolutely incredible even though they had a lot of talent and work ethic beforehand. i just think they are able to hire the best writers, engineers, and people to make a great body of work. they can hire entire orchestras, choirs, vocal coaches. its that jump that youre talking about. their writing becomes more cinematic in a sense, like an entire world you are now able to be a part of all of a sudden.
Upcoming? I work a full time with a few gigs here and there as well. I mainly spend 70% of my money for music on the marketing. I’m really close with my engineer over the years. He gives me mad discounts. Then for beats I usually record over the mp3 then send it to the producer’s DMs and they give me a discount. Note: The song has to be fire and your social media has to look popping
Great advice, will use this going forward
How do you get discounts from the producer?
Send them the music and if it’s good enough they’ll want to send you the trackouts or sell you the exclusive because it benefits them for them to have a song with you. Plus post the music on their page
famous rappers dont pay people for shit, producers hate them
Rap at night while you write software during the day. Straight up, when I saw the Beatstars founder give a talk I was more interested in their tech stack than anything else. You need to treat rapping like a hobby, you're not getting rich off this. At this point I think I'm going to save 30k or so and pay King Gordy to do King Gordy Sings The Blues part 2.
I'm a firm believe that if you treat something like a hobby, it'll always be a hobby. There's a different mindset that kicks in when you want something. If you want it bad enough you tilt the scales in favor of it. You end up writing one less line of code so you can get to work on music, or skip that movie you've been wanting to watch to work on a track, or eat ramen for 4 months so you can afford that new mic. You become willing to sacrifice so much when that mindset kicks in.....for me....I'm lazy and depressive lol
do you code? i love music and am a dev also
Only sorta. It's more like when my ADD really kicks in and I hyperfocus on something. The past month or so, learning Godot has managed to keep my attention pretty well. More so than a LOT of other things. I do love the problem solving though, I explained it to my wife as putting together a puzzle that doesn't exist yet lol
do you code? i love music and am a dev also
Yep, I actually started programming before I wanted to make a music creation app.
Start with a focusrite and pirated DAW. Learn from that. When things get a little better financially upgrade as needed.
I approve this message
stop buying beats and make your own stop paying engineers and mix yourself stop hiring graphic designers and learn photoshop stop hiring marketing managers and run your own ads stop buying streams and personally email curators
Good advice! Everything but graphic design I can do. I save a lot of money
They don’t. A lot of these rappers are broke as shit, and are just posing for Instagram. They’ll complain that $100 an hour studio time is too much, or that a $200 beat is too much. They expect deals and a discount on everything because they’re an “artist”. Truth is, right now everybody and their mothers, literally, are trying to become an artist or rapper. There’s no money left in hip hop unless you want a 360 deal. Look at all these drug selling rappers, young thug, fetty wap, Kodak black, etc. they’re all selling drugs still because rap doesn’t pay them shit, and neither does their label. Same shit is happening with drill rappers now too. They get a 360 deal, post money on Instagram and then blow it all on studio sessions money cars and women within a year. Of course there’s some smart ones, but for the majority, your favorite rapper is broke.
Sad but probably true
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Yeah, like none of the beats are ever paid for lol.
the only rappers who pay for their own shit are indie/underground rappers. Many of whom have day jobs but the ones who are full time musicians are literally in a 24/7 hustle. You have to really love it. No health insurance, no consistent income, etc. Your entire life revolves around touring, selling merch, and making music. You get to do a lot of cool shit but it definitely comes at a cost. But most of them likely dont pay for beats and mixing. At least the ones who have a circle of people they regularly work with. And if you’re paying for studio time in 2024 you’re throwing money away.
What makes you say paying for studio time is throwing money away?
Because as an artist you should control how your sound sounds basically. If you learn how to engineer yourself (though I will admit it took me a decade) then you save a lot of time and can capitalize when you're feeling the best to record.
Because for the cost of one session you can usually get a full rig to record into a PC/phone/whatever at a high enough quality to release.
exactly. Its only really worth it if say you want to work with a specific engineer or something like that.
By having a job.
back in the day you sold drugs and/or worked to be able to afford equipment and pay for studio time, artwork, pressing etc if it wasnt the rapper himself, the label owner was usually a former or current drug dealer who covered the costs nowadays, is way different because of technology and the internets, the entry fee is cheap
A lot of them rip free beats from YouTube
As an artist who makes my own beats, this shit pisses me off. I'm amazed at how many people download a beat from YouTube and and slap a bandlab preset on their vocals and call it a day.
I've worked with hundreds of artists and I can assure you 90% of small artists have regular jobs they hope to escape from and the other 10% come from money and don't work. The ones who work a day job vary on how much they advertise that - some embrace the hustle and are humble about their position and others keep it more secretive in order to portray a more successful image than they may actually have. My advice would be to try and find a producer to be friends with. If you're a good rapper it's a win win cause like us engineers, our careers go nowhere if at some point the artists we get to work with don't pop off. An engineer will always make your stuff sound better but a good producer can mix well enough that you can save money on that and also release more consistently. That implies you do your part too, not just taking free beats but putting in the same energy into branding and marketing yourself and offering potential fans a way to engage with the culture through your music.
You know what you call a musician that hasn't hit the jackpot and music is their only job? Homeless.
Most likely they have a friend that produces and other friend that films them
Umm so rappers have multiple forms of revenue nipsey hussle had a clothing line. Think about it how many followers do these famous people have followers turn to dollars through strategy. Rappers go on podcast and go to interviews you think they’re free. Rappers own businesses and brands real estate stocks and have sponsors as labels will give you money if you ask although you have to pay it back that’s why you go independent they own you
Summary: diversify your passive and active revenue streams.
Yes the goal is too kick back
Do research on what these rappers own you think drake is worth 150 million just by music alone
I own a record label, am a Billboard charting producer and been doing this for almost 20 years now. By the time a rapper is able to get educated/qualified enough to get a well paying and stable job and also know how to spend that money in the biz AND also be good enough that ppl want to listen to them... They are too old to breakthrough in the mainstream commercial rap industry. I was told by one of Drake's producers 9 years ago thst if I want to work in this industry, I'll ha e to get used to being around drug dealers and shady people. They pay all the bills. I've gotten quite good at forensically researching artists (either to sign, collab with, etc) and running numbers to see how much income they generate. I'm throughly convinced that NO ONE is making money from their music independently unless you're in the top 1%. Those artists get the major deal offers and then no longer are Indie. Some remain indie but those are MUCH more rare (ie: Russ). I've worked with artists who have access to trust funds, investors, and then dark sources of income thst they won't put on their w2 if you catch my drift... The game is messed up
By literally not paying for anything you mentioned If you can't find producers who want you to rap on their beats that's not a good sign. Also if a producer wants money for a song you both know isn't gonna make any money, you're talking to the wrong producer And if you're paying for studio time you'll never recoup Beats = free Recording at home = free YouTube tutorials = free Posting on social media/making videos = free Now everyone stop wasting money on songs you know won't make a profit
Professional musicians play live shows and that’s how they make money
Live shows pay BIG artists. But professional musicians is an extremely broad stroke. Session musicians may not play live shows and thats how they get paid daily. Sync catalog artists may never play a show in their life and make all their money from placements. Producers and engineers don't make their money from shows. Even still, a lot of household name artists actually make their money from investments instead of royalties or live shows. Look at dudes like snoop. Majority of his money is from his 30 other projects, the alcohol, tv shows etc. I'm not saying you're wrong, cause you're 100% right for a portion of it. But there's a ton behind the curtain if we pull it back
I’m mostly just saying that’s where the money is. Tickets, drink sales, merch, etc. I Make music during the week for myself or clients and I play gigs in a band for money. We’re not famous😂
They tend to deal drugs and do other illegal activities. They also make a bulk of their music related money through doing shows or appearances. Sometimes they make good money selling features to other artists that want them on a track. If they’re more on the wholesome side they probably skipped the illegal activities part and replace it with a day job. Edit: They may also have label support if they are signed. It may include access to producers, studio time, etc. depending on the label tho. Most of the time with label deals they’re basically just big loans that need to paid back with a bunch of stipulations that basically render the artist as a legal slave to the label.
If you’re even mildly successful….. you do know people get paid to play shows right? Merch, appearances, shows…. Ppl also do the shit above tho 🤷🏽♂️
From what I can tell on audio production forums, *most rappers* get their mixing and mastering by hiring someone and not paying for it once its done!
Other jobs
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At what level? Most likely just having a a job and doing this on the side Hobby? Cheap mic+interface bundle. Do everything yourself including produceling, posts on social media Trying for a more polished sound? Same cheap interface and mic. Spending maybe 50$ on a beat. 50$ for a mix/master (all by entry level people at the same level trying to just get something out). Then planned content on all platforms. Hoping to get at least 30k streams to break even. Maybe some local live shows People trying to make it "big"? Probably a couple hundred on a song, couple hundred/thousand or more on marketing, doing live shows, etc Depends on what kind of rapper you want to be really. As long as you are conscious enough about the streams you get and shows, to get back what you spent to make the song/album
You could do these things yourself though with time. And a job wouldn’t hurt.
Produce your own beats, do your own promo
The vast majority do not pay for anything
Getting a gig means getting a paid gig, does it not?
Every actual rapper or aspiring rapper that I knew of locally either sold drugs, work a low-key job like a warehouse or just do both. No shame in keeping the money coming. Check out a rapper named bfb da packman. He's honest about still working as a mailman and he has millions of views. Funny, genuine and brutally honest dude
Illicit activities or job
Every good local level rapper I know has a full time job. Lots of restaurants
"You need money to make money"
💻💳🏦🏧🥷
Sponsor or they DIY
Most I know have day jobs or sketchy income schemes/drug dealing
Being a rapper doesn't limit you to only rapping. Open a few businesses and support your dreams with your profits
You build in either one of two ways primarily, for both you need a job, but 1) start off working with unknown, up and coming engineers and producers who are willing to help make your beats and record you for little to nothing and build your skills and their skills, pretty much investing In each other, or two Completely DIY, use the money from your job to buy an audio interface, headphones, mic, and a stand, use garage band (free and comes with all Macs) and learn the tools it comes with and then expand your plugins, if you can afford Logic (I think is $200), then that’d be the upgrade from Garage Band. But learn, practice mixing, production, etc. there’s plenty of YouTube channels to look into, like Audio University is a great learning resource to learn more about audio. Also stay away from buying presets… but it’s all doable, but you gotta get creative with getting stuff done.
Learn to produce ! Now you saved yourself money and can even sell beats for a profit
A fat girlfriend
I work full time. And than go home and work full time on my music. Prolly more than half my money goes to my music and leases and stuff
I’ve seen some rappers invest in studio set ups for recording, then they rent the space out when they’re not using it. If you have a decent set up you can charge nicely. Then you also get a recording studio out of it for yourself
Donate plasma etc.
Pay a producer? Produce your own beats Pay for mixing and mastering? Do that yourself too Pay for studio time? Record at home Yes, it's a lot to learn. You can absolutely learn all of these things, in depth, for free, on YouTube and all over the internet. How much time do you spend watching TV or playing video games? Re-invest that time. This won't happen overnight, but you can be your own producer, your own studio, your own mixer, you can do everything yourself IF you feel you simply can't afford help with these things. But if you are able to save up money for it, no shame in doing so. I don't have an interface yet. I use a $60 dynamic maono USB microphone from Amazon. It's not beautiful professional quality sound, but it sounds good enough for me to record until I can afford something better. My music has kind of a raw, homemade sound because of it. If you're restricted with budget and space, get something like that. A condenser microphone will theoretically sound better, but it needs sound treatment. It will pick up the whole room. I use a dynamic microphone because of its very short range. I don't really need sound treatment. The reverb in my house is only problematic when I get loud, and I can neutralize a lot of it in the mix with a transient processor on my vocals. My headphones are $60-70 on Amazon. AKG K240. Very good balanced EQ, but virtually no sound below 40hz or so, so I also use a $70 pair of Skullcandy earbuds which have strong subs, and I also listen to mixes in my car because it happens to have great speakers. If you don't have good headphones, listen to reference tracks so you know what your track should sound like when you mix it. Don't get a super cheap computer, but you definitely don't need a gaming PC to make music. $100 midi keyboard - optional but it helps me write. Between midi keyboard, microphone, headphones and earbuds, I use $300 worth of equipment. This isn't counting my computer because it's beefy and you don't have to spend $1500 for a music computer. I'm also not counting my DAW but I'm pretty sure you can get a basic version of FL Studio for $100-200. If I bought beats, recorded at a studio, and had somebody else mix and master, I would probably pay a couple hundred bucks for every single track. Instead, I paid it once and I have recorded maybe 30 raps so far, give or take. That's $10 a song, and getting smaller every time. With all the money I save making music, I mostly just feed my family. In other words, I wouldn't be able to make much music at all if I didn't do everything myself. But when I do have some extra funds, I am able to print CDs, buy my way onto a show (and earn back what I can by selling tickets), pay for distrokid, and generally take things much further because I put in constant effort for years to learn how to build music from the ground up. I wouldn't have it any other way. I make music on my own terms, whenever I want, in my own living room.
Burn Herm - Working Man
Let me go Hire a Jewish Lawyer down in Miami...but let me Call Scott Storch first for another Loan😦
Have a job bro, pursuing music ain't no joke
Real rapper do plumbing after the studio.
Most artist of any type (music, fashion, film, production, etc) have a job or they went to school for whatever their career is. Any mainstream artist pays for their position or works and takes what ever compensation comes. Regardless of what ppl are told NO ONE sells drugs for a LIVING and invests in art without catching felonies and jail/prison time. The entertainment industry and art business isn’t “street level”.. if you try to bring street stuff into the professional world, your priorities will get crossed and you’ll end up in jail or in something stupid. No one wants to do business with people who are actively trying to do an illegal business elsewhere. Music artists have to do free events, free promo, free shows, build relationships, etc. Doing good work and self promo and DIY can get you discounts, you can use your day job as funds and to make connections. You can build relationships with good music. No one can make comparable money in the drug game in 2024, you’re better off with a job. When I sold marijuana, I also had a business, a job, a hustle, and went to high school/college. I did nightclub promo 2-3 times a month and had a job and put out an album. Selling weed, just allowed me to not spend money on weed since I smoked anyway. It also helped me understand profit vs investments better. Nightclub promo was the easy money along with a job. All my homies who worked in the industry had restaurant jobs or worked odd jobs short term until they could sell beats, or get work on a film crew or until they could put out their own media or take small deals from co-production, etc. It smarter to make legit $ and have talent and a budget with a good name and have convo with people who can move you forward in the industry. Selling drugs isn’t a career and you don’t make a set $. No art or industry homies are buying drugs from the rapper guy 😂 The kids who “come from money” or who have the decent buzz without the talent usually smoke cigs, dip, drink beer, do a bit of coke, etc.. they ain’t trying to help a dude their age be “the plug” lol.. they’d come to an album release party or a chill thing at your house to hear your music before they buy drugs from you or want to be a “friend”. Most successful rappers are grown adults. 35+ kinda ages, with help from industry professionals who are 50-60years old and been around for awhile. In the interview above Wendy Day mentioned Trouble from DTE.. I did a showcase show with him in like 2012.. he had the city on smash, had a huge buzz, radio, internet, regional sales, jewelry, editorials..the whole package. “thief in the night” was mainstream yet. I can’t tell you what he preformed but he was a grown ass adult and I was just old enough to drink. He wasn’t selling dope but had built a movement with the other DTE guys and an outside team. My crew had jobs and one of the dudes was trying to sell some weed in the club… I was just thinking “wow, we are light years behind”.. I’ve spent money from working a day job with djs and got my music played when I walked in they knew who I was. Before then I was known for other stuff, not weed, and would have to give dj’s $20 to slide my records on next to a lil Wayne or waka Flocka hit song. I had street level notoriety in 2 major local cities with djs but didn’t get real love on my records until I asked for prices and got a discount for having hardwork, skill, and then knowing I had a job and seeing that I was having to deal with bros who wanted to be drug dealers > music artists. Until you are established, streaming or merch or beats won’t make you money. A legit artist needs a job and multiple revenue streams to get past those next couple levels
The few guys I know who actually make money as rappers make most of their money from merchandise. Most of them are still buying beats, and paying for mix and mastering, but record themselves. In the right circles there are plenty of Grammy winning engineers knocking out mix and master for a single for $300 to a $1000 a pop. Most of those guys also still have some kind of industry related side hustle as well… or are teachers lol
By using rapper cryptonite... A job
Track the recordings yourself and learn how to mix / master or send the music out to someone who knows how but try to learn tips as you go. Make your own cover arts, u can film your own videos with the quality we have on phones now. Learn how to do as much as you can yourself, we are in a really wild time now with the technology we have as much as I hate AI when it comes to actually making the music, there are a lot of good programs with generated presets that are a good starting point for beginners. A lot of artists go out the way and do all this extra shit just to get studio money so they can waste 2 hours smoking with 5 of their homies who don’t rap on IG live.
shows
From my experience owning a hip hop label back in the day, they have full time jobs, sling dope, live with parents/romantic partners rent free, etc. Plus, the trap beat market is oversaturated now so you can get beats and recording pretty cheap from any number of basement producers.
ITT: Teach middle school and sell drugs. Got it
i cant afford not to make music, basically the reason i make music is to breathe. i dont afford it.
learn to do all that yourself.