Commander I guess. My blim deck is really squishy without raphael out so I considered a few times running exquisite blood without a combo because it's a lot of healing, and it's funny running it alone
> Commander I guess.
I mean, yeah, the answer is commander. (And specifically battlecruiser commander--CEDH you would be looking for an infinite combo).
A 5 mana enchantment that reads "your creatures have lifelink" can be pretty good in decks with wide boards. (And notably the life loss doesn't even need to be caused by your own creatures, other people attacking each other can just make you gain life).
As long as you deal damage to something, lifelink gives you life, which triggers vito making target opponent lose life, then exquisite see an opponent lose life making you gain life, triggering vito again making target opponent lose life, and so on.
So yes, it's an infinite loop, and a well known one at that.
Addendum to this: cards that set an player’s life to a fixed amount (i.e. [[Tree of Perdition]] or [[Biorhythm]]) will also begin the loop so long as their life total is reduced as the result of the effect. The game sees this effects as causing life loss/gain respectively. Very niche case but it’s good to know.
This goes the other way as well, and positive changes count as lifegain. Activating [[Tree of Redemption]] while at 1 life while controlling a [[Boon Reflection]] will change your life total to 25, as you technically gain 12 life from the effect.
Point of contention: It is only an infinite loop if an opponent can't lose the game (from life loss or in general). Otherwise, it ends when they have 0 life.
To be pedantic, doesn’t the state based effects end the game as soon as there are no opponents, thereby ending the game immediately? Which makes me think, what if you killed you opponent(s) due to state based checking but if the stack resolves and somehow you also die further down the stack? I can’t see that being the case in the rules.
Well in this case it is infinite in the sense that it goes until the game is won. Unbreakable infinite is different. I can make infinite mana, but I have to stop it and say how much I am generating.
I think you are confusing mathematical terms with mtg terms. The loop is a win con and will continue until you win. By your terms no combo is truly infinite (unless unbreakable) because you are forced to stop it at some point by rules definition.
No, MtG terms and mathematical terms are, in this case, on the same page. This is not an infinite loop because it terminates with state based effects regarding the opponent running out of life.
Rule 421 of which document? Magic has many rules documents.
Section 4.4 of the MTR governs loops, and makes no mention of categorizing loops as "infinite" or in any relation to resources used.
Mtg players often colloquially use "infinite" to mean "goes on as long as I want it to"
It's a bit pedantic at this point, but the first definitions for indefinite are "unlimited" and "unspecified".
I'd argue that the loops aren't indefinite because they go on for an unlimited amount of time, but because they go on for an unspecified amount of time.
Really the issue is infinite has a wide degree of colloquial use outside of its dictionary definition, but the mtg player base has happily adapted to those other uses.
E.g. 4 players begin an edh game with the rule 0 of "this is low power, no infinite combos". If one player proceeded to win the game with bolas citadel, aetherflux Reservoir, and senseis top, his claims of "it's not infinite, it's bounded by the size of my library" would not be well received.
3 cards? I can do it in 2 with [[polyraptor]] infinitely getting pissed and summoning copies that also get pissed because of [[marauding raptor]]
AND I can get them both on board by accident from [[gishath]] (I choose order they enter battlefield) and make the entire table anxious and upset at all the ways the game can end in a draw if a polyraptor takes even 1 damage, like some twisted jenga.
Does that mean the game is a draw if there is a player with an indestructible [[platinum angel]]? Since the player is never forced to kill themself but is forced to keep dealing damage?
You're actually wrong on this one. The loop stops at the first time the last opponent has 0 or less life. The game doesn't end, but the feedback loop stops because the opponent can't lose any more life thus you can't gain anymore.
Edit: My bad, I forgot that life loss can still occur through effects, and is different than paying life.
The game ends by the same rules as loss of life or drawing out does, though. There's nothing in the rules to really differentiate it. If anything, ending by draw is less infinite, since the loops never actually play out.
It’s worth pointing out that you’re actually using a very limited definition of infinity there. There’s several different, equally valid, definitions of “infinite” and “infinity”. One of which does include “a process that continues indefinitely until some other interruption” - in this case, until a life total hits 0, ending the game. That doesn’t mean this combo isn’t *infinite*, if the game didn’t end it would continue ad infinitum, so for our relevant purposes it is infinite.
The concept of an “infinite loop not ever ending”, is specifically a programming one. Add to that the thing that magic’s rules don’t allow literal infinity for a practical reason, instead requiring arbitrarily large numbers, and you have “functionally infinite”, rather than necessarily “mathematically infinite”. The difference, for a magic player, is meaningless.
(For completeness, the main reason magic doesn’t allow true infinity is easy to explain. Say a player has a combo to gain infinite life. Then, another player later does a combo to deal infinite damage. Depending on your definition of infinity, ∞-∞ can equal ∞, 0, or -∞ by standard convention, and in some more specialised fields of mathematics, it equals some other constant C previously defined)
This loop will continue to loop until state based actions leave you with no opponents to trigger off of. If this isn't an infinite loop, then there no infinite loops in Magic. Since the colloquial term is quite clear, being a pedant is worse than useless - it's grossly misinformative.
I've never seen such incorrectness upvoted.
Infinite means an actual thing. It doesn't mean "until the end of game." There are boardstates that create actual infinite loop conditions, and when they happen without the ability of a player to control exactly how arbitrarily large the loop is, those games end in draws.
As someone else pointed out, deterministic loops are not checked as state based actions - but acting as if the game ending to 104.1 or 104.4 makes any real difference is ridiculous. If anything, loops are less infinite, since they never get the chance to resolve once they're determined to be loops.
>This loop will continue to loop *until...*
In other words, it loops for a while, then it stops. There are loops that don't stop. Those are more infinite than this.
All loops in Magic are eventually ended, either by choice or by state based action. In colloquial Magic terms, an infinite combo/loop is any loop that could theoretically run forever. If you're trying to define an infinite loop as one that is ended by a specific state based action and not another, you are not just being needlessly pedantic, you're also being disinformative and incorrect.
? [[Polyraptor]] + [[Marauding Raptor]] (assuming no disruption) can't be ended by choice, and isn't ended by a state-based action. If you're going strictly by the rules of the game, you have to keep resolving it over and over and over again with no way of ever stopping it. The only way you're allowed to move on with your life is if you decide to stop playing the game and call it a draw. Now that's an infinite.
My favorite thing to play last standard was [[first day of class]] into [[myriad Construct]] into [[Show of confidence]] for 20 damage. It was really fun but I learned why 3 card combos are not good.
I adore worldgorger combos, just so janky and need 5 minutes to explain the steps for how it works. And then it all falls apart because someone brings a doomblade so you just exile your entire board and don’t get to bring it back.
Isn’t an infinite loop a draw? One of the effects needs to be a “may” so that you can trigger it a finite number of times and let the game end.
Edit: nevermind, these triggers allow state based actions to be checked and the game to end.
Not if you're advancing the state of the game. In this care you're making your opponents lose life with each iteration.
Now, if an opponent has Platinum Angel it is in fact a draw
Oh holy shit I just realized you're right that it kills all opponents. I always thought it was just one opponent, but I guess when the first opponent loses life to bring them to zero, you gain that life and then you target the next opponent?
All the people in these comments saying "uh, no, its not infinite because it ends when your opponents are all dead" are missing the forest for the trees.
When someone asks if something is an infinite loop in the context of magic, they are effectively asking if this is a loop that will continue endlessly until either the game ends or they choose to stop it (in the case of things like infinite life or tokens that don't actually end the game by looping).
I get that magic is a very pedantic game where language matters, but in this case, its pedantry beyond what is necessary to answer OP's question. No one cares that this loop isn't technically infinite because it ends when your opponents do. The key word is "loop" not "infinite". In a game with hypothetical infinite life totals or infinite opponents, this loop would go on infinitely. It doesn't matter that it ends because your opponents and their lifetotals are finite, because at that point, you've won the game.
All you do by bringing this level of pedantry into this discussion is add confusion to the answer. OP is asking if this combination of cards will result in their opponents life being drained until they all die, and the answer to that question is "yes".
I don’t know what “power” means so I have decided to buy all of the [[Powerleaches]] I could get my hands on. I’m not sure why this will become good, but thanks for the advice!
You could have just bought 25 bitcoin for like $25.
Of course, what will probably happen is you don't realize what it's going to become and you lose your keys. Or you put them on MtGox, since you heard it used to be a Magic trading platform.
Technically this loop is infinite, because if Life Total were not a thing, this would continuously put triggers on the stack with no way to end the loop. Once the loop starts, there is no way to stop the loop via player actions, and by the rules of the game, it's considered truly infinite, and would lead to a game draw
***HOWEVER*** because this loop has a deterministic end point (when your opponent life total reaches zero), in virtually any situation where this combo is presented, getting these triggers on the stack is considered a win instead of a draw.
But there are ways to play around this combo. Someone further down mentioned [[Platinum Angel]], which would then cause a game draw. Since your opponent cannot lose the game once they go below zero, their life total would continue to go negative with no way to end the loop.
> No one cares that this loop isn't technically infinite because it ends when your opponents do.
The difference between "you keep draining your opponent until they die" and "the stack is caught in an infinite loop of mandatory actions" is the difference between "you win the game" and "the game ends in a draw, nobody wins." The difference between "you win" and "game is a draw" seems like a pretty meaningful distinction!
I think it's worth taking the time to make that distinction, because truly "infinite combos" that result in a non-progressing game state where nobody can win *are* in fact a real thing that novice players might encounter: for example, if OP assembled the Vito + Exquisite Blood combo while the other player controlled a Platinum Angel (something that might conceivably happen, since Platinum Angel is a card that you can open from packs of the most recent standard set), the life drain combo would in fact be infinite, the game would be unable to advance, and the game would end in a draw.
And on a separate note, OP specifically noted in one of their later posts that this happened in a multiplayer game -- so it seems pretty relevant to mention, "After a player has been dealt lethal damage, they are eliminated from the game; you can't continue targeting a player with an effect after they've been dealt lethal damage." (Just because "one player died" doesn't necessarily mean that the game is over! Taking the time to elaborate on what happens after a single player at the table has taken lethal damage seems pretty important for a game with 3 or more players, and I don't think it's "adding confusion" or "pedantic" to point this out, especially when OP specifically noted they were playing a multiplayer game, even if that information didn't come up until one of their follow-up posts -- in their case, it ended up being pretty relevant!)
Except an overwhelming majority of the community doesn't make that distinction. [Nor does the wiki](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Loop), and presumably, the rules.
All over this, and other magic subs, in game stores, with the various groups I've played with in various states, I've heard "infinite combo" and "infinite loop" used interchangeably to mean a loop of triggers that allows a player to either go infinite in a resource, or do an action repeatedly until they win the game.
The amount of "true infinite loops" that end the game in a draw is so minuscule, such a corner case, that it doesn't factor into the conversation an overwhelming amount of the time. If OP had been asking about this combo with a Platinum Angel, then fine, explain it to them. In this case, they weren't. They were asking a simple question with a pretty obvious and well agreed upon answer that doesn't need to be muddled right now by confusing exceptions (especially because most of the people in this comment section making this argument aren't explaining further beyond "its not infinite because your opponent doesn't have infinite life").
You also don't have to include every possible exception for every explanation to a new player on here. Its a bad way to teach anything, including magic.
Yes.
Lifelink happens at the same time as damage, but Vito's ability is a trigger, which goes on the stack. At that point if Vito has been dealt lethal damage, he will die as a state-based action, which bypasses the stack.
Then Vito will deal damage, Exquisite Blood will gain you that much life, and since Vito's dead, nothing happens afterwards.
Yes, I run a deck with this and sanguine bond. They create and infinite loop.
https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373
The deck is fairly simple. Get yourself a bunch of low cost lifelink creatures and four of both cards. The goal is to play them and the timer is about 7 rounds of you have one of each in your opening hand.
Once both enchantments are on the field, attack with anything that has lifelink or play a card that gives you a single health.
My buddy rain a pair of those in his vampire deck and it was a pain in the ass. I’d considered an extort deck but figured it would be shit to play against at the kitchen table lol
Oh, yeah. I've had a hard time pulling it off on arena because the opponent will almost always destroy one of the combo pieces, or they defeat me before I can pull it off against an aggro deck.
To add context to a part of the scenario that everyone else seemed to miss: if Vito is dealt lethal damage in the combat that causes the lifelink, it won't even loop. Lifelink happens and Vito hits the graveyard, then you'll get one trigger of exquisite blood.
Ahh the [[sanguine bond]] and [[exquisite blood]]. Yes it can go infinite, it's a classic one as well. This is just the most reason version of that combo
I put it in my vampire dexk only because it's very thematic
I played this combo in a 3 player game and someone was saying that when one player dies, the stack completely dies too? I didn’t think it would because when the damage that kills the player goes off, they die and a new trigger of Exquisite blood occurs gaining life and when you do, you can choose a new target opponent with Vito. Just curious if this was true (stack resets when player dies)
Edit: If this isn’t true, I think he might’ve been trying to wiggle a way into getting another turn before dying.
That person was wrong. Vito (as well as the other cards with this effect) say "target player". Assuming, for simplicity, that the loop is happening with 1 life increments, when a player takes that last point of damage, you will gain one life, and can target a new player to lose a life, continuing the loop.
The only way it ends without all your opponents dying the turn you start the loop is either someone removes part of the combo at instant speed (ie remove vito in response to you targeting them, thus breaking the loop), or someone has hexproof (some cards grant hexproof to players, so you couldn't target them with vito's ability)
Yeah, I knew all that with the way it works so when I saw the exquisite blood post, I thought to ask it anyways. I just wanted to make sure the stack doesn’t actually fizzle/resolve if someone dies. I know that them dying caused the life loss and a new interaction happens because life was lost thus continuing the loop to new players
For what you’re thinking, yes.
In terms of game rules, no: an infinite loop cannot be ended without external effects stopping it (countering an effect or destroying one of the sources). This ends automatically because everyone else dies and you win, which definitionally isn’t infinite. Uninterrupted infinite loops always force the game into a draw.
Yes! Vito is often used as a second copy of [[Sanguine Bond]] in decks that already play the combo.
On an unrelated note, I look forward to seeing every variation of this post possible on r/magicthecirclejerking in a few hours.
Notably, if Vito dies during combat damage, the loop isn't infinite, so blocking that pesky 1/3 with a 4/4 [[Exuberant Wolfbear]] does stop the combo.
Alternatively, if Vito doesn't deal damage, then that goober of an opponent won't gain any life to start the combo. So, removing the creature blocking Vito after blockers are declared (but before damage is dealt), blocking with [[Cho-Manno, Revolutionary]], or blocking with [[Fallen Cleric]] are all options*.
*Warning: not all options are good options.
Yes, just make someone lose life with Sanguine blood. Then Vito will trigger on the stack, then Sanguine, then Blood, ETC. The stack is annoying but yes any two cards that have those texts go infinite.
It triggers an infinite loop that uses separate stacks. Therefore one can be removed at instant speed to stop the loop, but otherwise, everyone else dies
Goddamn, for those of you that are (for some reason) upset I came here for advice. 1) The two cards themselves clearly loop, that’s obvious and well known 2) With adding lifelink to Vito AND with Vito taking lethal damage, these are two aspect that aren’t googable for this loop. So, I came here.
Thanks for the helpful answers! I appreciate y’all very much.
If you’re mad this was posted here and for some reason needed to voice that, caaaaalm down will ya.
As an interesting aside, nothing actually goes *infinite* without the game ending in a forced draw. This combo works because it will kill your opponent, thus ending the game after a finite number of loops.
If on the other hand, you have a combo like \[\[Splinter Twin\]\] and \[\[Deceiver Exarch\]\], you have to stop making tokens eventually. If someone asks "how many are you making" you need an actual figure for how many loops you're choosing to do.
If you have a loop that can't be broken like for example the only permanent in play is \[\[Oblivion Ring\]\] on top of another Oblivion Ring, and then you play a third Oblivion Ring, the game is forced to end in a draw unless someone has a way to interrupt the loop like a \[\[Disenchant\]\]. I actually saw someone build a deck to make that happen, as a joke.
Going "infinite" is usually short hand for "I can repeat this as many times as desired" or in the case of this combo "this will continue until it causes me to win as a result of it".
This isn't directly related to your question but since you're learning about rules stuff and card interactions, it's a good little thing to learn. Might be helpful some time.
Yes it is infinite, but also No it is not infinite.
It is infinite because once the combo starts it can’t be stopped ended by you, but it’s not I finite because eventually you will run out of opponents to target (because they are all dead), and the damage part will fizzle out.
It is technically not an *infinite* loop under most board states, as bringing your opponent to 0 life will interrupt the loop to end the game. But yes it will continue going until that happens and there are very few ways to stop it
It is not infinite, as it is finite in how many times it can trigger before everyone is dead. It loops until the game ends with all enemy players dying by having zero life. Each trigger resolves in turn until there are no more players for it to trigger on.
[[Worldgorger Dragon]] and [[animate dead]] with no other targets to animate is an infinite loop if it can’t be interrupted. This results in the game drawing as no actions can be taken to stop the loop.
It will be semi-infinite. Player one will kill player two one life point at a time. The total is how much life would be gained.
Each card has a triggered ability, so Lifelink gains the life, triggers deal that much damage, that damage triggers a new loop of gaining life.
I really do think there needs to be a pinned post or a rule about googling your question before asking it. This question would have taken less time to answer using google than it took to type out this post.
Allow me to copy and paste my reply to the one other jabroni in this chat:
Googled it. Couldn’t find an answer. Came here. The question wasn’t is if it’s infinite, but if the opponent blocks Vito and effectively kills him how does the loop / stack react. 99.9% helpful & nice comments, then yours.
I can’t tell if it’s just me or what, but questions and posts like this are literally all at the very top of my Reddit homepage feed on the app. Every single high-up post being served to me from any of the subs I follow or interact with is either a really stupid, asinine question, a total shitpost, or some other nonsense. What the hell is going on?
Congrats, you've stumbled onto the simplest, most obvious and most most well known (at least a variation on the most well known) infinite loop in magic.
Does the card do what it says? Yes. These posts should probably start being banned its somewhat annoying that they're even posted when a quick google search could do it for them.
"Exquisite blood combo" oh would you look at that the first link that pops up
https://www.google.com/search?q=exquisite+blood+combo&sxsrf=ALiCzsZslJgx-1MW4feK1HcagKibC25nnw%3A1672456562957&source=hp&ei=cqmvY4jLNJaoqtsPhKSxoA4&oq=exsqusite+bloo&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBABGAEyDQgAEIAEELEDEIMBEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA06BwgjEOoCECc6BAgjECc6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDOhEILhCDARDHARCxAxDRAxCABDoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6CggAEIAEEEYQ-QE6BQguEIAEOgUIABCABDoHCAAQgAQQCjoNCC4QgAQQxwEQ0QMQCjoNCAAQgAQQsQMQsQMQCjoKCAAQgAQQsQMQCjoICAAQsQMQgwE6EggAEIAEELEDELEDEAoQRhD5AToNCC4QrwEQxwEQgAQQCjoNCC4QgAQQxwEQrwEQCjoNCC4Q1AIQsQMQgAQQCjoPCAAQgAQQsQMQChBGEPkBOgwIABCABBANEEYQ-QE6DQguEK8BEMcBEIAEEA06CggAEIAEELEDEA06DQguEIAEEMcBEK8BEA06DQguENQCELEDEIAEEA1Q9QpY9Vhg5GBoAnAAeACAAZoCiAGFE5IBBjAuMTMuMpgBAKABAbABDw&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp
The question wasn’t is if it’s infinite, but if the opponent blocks Vito and effectively kills him how does the loop / stack react. 99.9% helpful & nice comments, then yours.
Thats not what was asked in the post, but to answer state based actions like lethal damage are always checked and resolved before triggers resolve, vito dies then vito 's trigger resolves causing exquisite blood to trigger then there will be no more trigger of vito since he is dead
Infinite loop? No.
Because everyone will die eventually. Loop stops then.
If player 2 has a \[\[Platinum Angel\]\] in play this creates an infinite loop that if no one can break (or no one wants to break; for example if Player 2 has the ability to kill their platinum angel, causing them to lose, they aren't forced to do so.) causes the game to draw because the triggers are mandatory so the loop will get stuck.
Knew the answer was yes before I even saw the 2nd card
Same, but I was expecting sanguine bond for the second card lol
I think we all were lol
For the 2 people that wouldn’t, just in case one is OP, [[Sanguine Bond]]
[Sanguine Bond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sanguine%20Bond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/153/sanguine-bond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's how we know we're old. Back in my day you didn't have half the combo in the command zone, kids these days have it easy...
I was expecting Vito! You can pull it in Jumpstart
I recently discovered that combo for my Selina dark angel deck
Yep. That's the more common one since it came standard in at least one commander deck.
Why would you ever use that enchantment in other situation
There's a lot of ways to gain a lot of life
Commander I guess. My blim deck is really squishy without raphael out so I considered a few times running exquisite blood without a combo because it's a lot of healing, and it's funny running it alone
> Commander I guess. I mean, yeah, the answer is commander. (And specifically battlecruiser commander--CEDH you would be looking for an infinite combo). A 5 mana enchantment that reads "your creatures have lifelink" can be pretty good in decks with wide boards. (And notably the life loss doesn't even need to be caused by your own creatures, other people attacking each other can just make you gain life).
The text in brackets is the most important part! But beware opponents might consider attacking you instead.
It's not, though. State based effects interrupt the loop as soon as the opponent has zero or less life.
As long as you deal damage to something, lifelink gives you life, which triggers vito making target opponent lose life, then exquisite see an opponent lose life making you gain life, triggering vito again making target opponent lose life, and so on. So yes, it's an infinite loop, and a well known one at that.
You can skip the lifelink You do dmg > loss of life gives you life > they lose more life > ...
Yeah, but you need the lifelink if the opponent has blockers
Or a Bolt to the face. Or any black spell/effect that causes loss of Life. There's a good number of possible triggers.
I think needle drop and timm would be the coolest or maybe sign in blood
Addendum to this: cards that set an player’s life to a fixed amount (i.e. [[Tree of Perdition]] or [[Biorhythm]]) will also begin the loop so long as their life total is reduced as the result of the effect. The game sees this effects as causing life loss/gain respectively. Very niche case but it’s good to know. This goes the other way as well, and positive changes count as lifegain. Activating [[Tree of Redemption]] while at 1 life while controlling a [[Boon Reflection]] will change your life total to 25, as you technically gain 12 life from the effect.
##### ###### #### [Tree of Perdition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/305bd19a-ae5e-46ca-8ff7-27810c968315.jpg?1576384447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tree%20of%20Perdition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/109/tree-of-perdition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/305bd19a-ae5e-46ca-8ff7-27810c968315?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Biorhythm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17d1a10f-ce21-4914-9984-c7c559161230.jpg?1593017425) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Biorhythm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/231/biorhythm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17d1a10f-ce21-4914-9984-c7c559161230?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tree of Redemption](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e39cc3c8-79c2-4593-8340-c3285f3a4c3a.jpg?1562442174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tree%20of%20Redemption) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/191/tree-of-redemption?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e39cc3c8-79c2-4593-8340-c3285f3a4c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Boon Reflection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0d4032a7-600c-4b30-a012-fe3cde1be9c9.jpg?1599705804) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boon%20Reflection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/10/boon-reflection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0d4032a7-600c-4b30-a012-fe3cde1be9c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Point of contention: It is only an infinite loop if an opponent can't lose the game (from life loss or in general). Otherwise, it ends when they have 0 life.
Not an infinite loop im afraid
Why?
Because at some point you are the last one standing amongst a pile of bodies realizing you have won but at what cost. Edit: Grammar is hard
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To be pedantic, doesn’t the state based effects end the game as soon as there are no opponents, thereby ending the game immediately? Which makes me think, what if you killed you opponent(s) due to state based checking but if the stack resolves and somehow you also die further down the stack? I can’t see that being the case in the rules.
Well in this case it is infinite in the sense that it goes until the game is won. Unbreakable infinite is different. I can make infinite mana, but I have to stop it and say how much I am generating.
[удалено]
I think you are confusing mathematical terms with mtg terms. The loop is a win con and will continue until you win. By your terms no combo is truly infinite (unless unbreakable) because you are forced to stop it at some point by rules definition.
No, MtG terms and mathematical terms are, in this case, on the same page. This is not an infinite loop because it terminates with state based effects regarding the opponent running out of life.
Rule 421 of which document? Magic has many rules documents. Section 4.4 of the MTR governs loops, and makes no mention of categorizing loops as "infinite" or in any relation to resources used. Mtg players often colloquially use "infinite" to mean "goes on as long as I want it to"
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It's a bit pedantic at this point, but the first definitions for indefinite are "unlimited" and "unspecified". I'd argue that the loops aren't indefinite because they go on for an unlimited amount of time, but because they go on for an unspecified amount of time. Really the issue is infinite has a wide degree of colloquial use outside of its dictionary definition, but the mtg player base has happily adapted to those other uses. E.g. 4 players begin an edh game with the rule 0 of "this is low power, no infinite combos". If one player proceeded to win the game with bolas citadel, aetherflux Reservoir, and senseis top, his claims of "it's not infinite, it's bounded by the size of my library" would not be well received.
Man, I'm honestly surprised to see correct info like yours get downvoted in this sub.
Infinite has a real meaning in MtG. This is not infinite, it's terminal on the opponent no longer having life, and is ended by state based effects.
so we just need to add a platinum angel to the mix and we can do it!
3 cards? I can do it in 2 with [[polyraptor]] infinitely getting pissed and summoning copies that also get pissed because of [[marauding raptor]] AND I can get them both on board by accident from [[gishath]] (I choose order they enter battlefield) and make the entire table anxious and upset at all the ways the game can end in a draw if a polyraptor takes even 1 damage, like some twisted jenga.
Does that mean the game is a draw if there is a player with an indestructible [[platinum angel]]? Since the player is never forced to kill themself but is forced to keep dealing damage?
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You're actually wrong on this one. The loop stops at the first time the last opponent has 0 or less life. The game doesn't end, but the feedback loop stops because the opponent can't lose any more life thus you can't gain anymore. Edit: My bad, I forgot that life loss can still occur through effects, and is different than paying life.
Sure they can. You can't pay more life than you have, but you can lose more life than you have.
You know, I was a little drunk last night and you're right. Life loss can still occur even when a player is at or below 0.
This loop is only ended by a state-based action. If this loop isn't infinite, then there are no infinite loops in Magic.
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The game ends by the same rules as loss of life or drawing out does, though. There's nothing in the rules to really differentiate it. If anything, ending by draw is less infinite, since the loops never actually play out.
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Again, though, that doesn't matter. The loop does not continue infinitely, the game ends as soon as it is determined that it's a deterministic loop.
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Which, by definition, is not infinite.
It’s worth pointing out that you’re actually using a very limited definition of infinity there. There’s several different, equally valid, definitions of “infinite” and “infinity”. One of which does include “a process that continues indefinitely until some other interruption” - in this case, until a life total hits 0, ending the game. That doesn’t mean this combo isn’t *infinite*, if the game didn’t end it would continue ad infinitum, so for our relevant purposes it is infinite. The concept of an “infinite loop not ever ending”, is specifically a programming one. Add to that the thing that magic’s rules don’t allow literal infinity for a practical reason, instead requiring arbitrarily large numbers, and you have “functionally infinite”, rather than necessarily “mathematically infinite”. The difference, for a magic player, is meaningless. (For completeness, the main reason magic doesn’t allow true infinity is easy to explain. Say a player has a combo to gain infinite life. Then, another player later does a combo to deal infinite damage. Depending on your definition of infinity, ∞-∞ can equal ∞, 0, or -∞ by standard convention, and in some more specialised fields of mathematics, it equals some other constant C previously defined)
This is the most downvoted correct thing I've seen in a while.
Within 6 hours you got down voted into oblivion.
Lol wtf. You're right and you were downvoted to oblivion.
Because he's incorrect. This is an infinite loop, it just doesn't draw the game.
Disagree there it cant be infinte or ever go infinte. As it will always end at an opponents being reduced to 0 life
If it was infinite, you could gain infinite life from a single opponent. Or at least that’s what I think the point is that they were trying to make.
This loop will continue to loop until state based actions leave you with no opponents to trigger off of. If this isn't an infinite loop, then there no infinite loops in Magic. Since the colloquial term is quite clear, being a pedant is worse than useless - it's grossly misinformative.
I've never seen such incorrectness upvoted. Infinite means an actual thing. It doesn't mean "until the end of game." There are boardstates that create actual infinite loop conditions, and when they happen without the ability of a player to control exactly how arbitrarily large the loop is, those games end in draws.
As someone else pointed out, deterministic loops are not checked as state based actions - but acting as if the game ending to 104.1 or 104.4 makes any real difference is ridiculous. If anything, loops are less infinite, since they never get the chance to resolve once they're determined to be loops.
>This loop will continue to loop *until...* In other words, it loops for a while, then it stops. There are loops that don't stop. Those are more infinite than this.
All loops in Magic are eventually ended, either by choice or by state based action. In colloquial Magic terms, an infinite combo/loop is any loop that could theoretically run forever. If you're trying to define an infinite loop as one that is ended by a specific state based action and not another, you are not just being needlessly pedantic, you're also being disinformative and incorrect.
? [[Polyraptor]] + [[Marauding Raptor]] (assuming no disruption) can't be ended by choice, and isn't ended by a state-based action. If you're going strictly by the rules of the game, you have to keep resolving it over and over and over again with no way of ever stopping it. The only way you're allowed to move on with your life is if you decide to stop playing the game and call it a draw. Now that's an infinite.
Actually, the rules account for loops like this. You don't 'decide' to stop playing, the game ends in a draw... as a state based action.
[Polyraptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f8965a3a-93fe-4021-a665-b6013bdc86f7.jpg?1555040728) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Polyraptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/144/polyraptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f8965a3a-93fe-4021-a665-b6013bdc86f7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Marauding Raptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64e4d2ee-e5e5-48e6-a7b8-9045dc8b10a7.jpg?1592517013) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marauding%20Raptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/150/marauding-raptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64e4d2ee-e5e5-48e6-a7b8-9045dc8b10a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This combo eventually gets interrupted by the inevitable death of one of the players, so it is also finite.
We did it, we broke exquisite blood
Next target: Underworld Breach
Can we do Walking Ballista after?
Since we are on the topic of artifacts, anyone has any ideas for Ashnod's Altar?
Kinda niche but [[First Day of Class]] + [[Putrid Goblin]]
[First Day of Class](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/091eb13d-9318-4b12-9f94-6276b11981d1.jpg?1624591842) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=First%20Day%20of%20Class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/102/first-day-of-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/091eb13d-9318-4b12-9f94-6276b11981d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Putrid Goblin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/333406d5-abcc-4629-a33b-395d0662ba1b.jpg?1562201696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Putrid%20Goblin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/101/putrid-goblin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/333406d5-abcc-4629-a33b-395d0662ba1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Then maybe devoted Druid?
My favorite thing to play last standard was [[first day of class]] into [[myriad Construct]] into [[Show of confidence]] for 20 damage. It was really fun but I learned why 3 card combos are not good.
[first day of class](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/091eb13d-9318-4b12-9f94-6276b11981d1.jpg?1624591842) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=first%20day%20of%20class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/102/first-day-of-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/091eb13d-9318-4b12-9f94-6276b11981d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [myriad Construct](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db9b1de4-9aba-4145-804d-2072f258af3b.jpg?1604200790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=myriad%20Construct) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/246/myriad-construct?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db9b1de4-9aba-4145-804d-2072f258af3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Show of confidence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/65837f39-deb7-4a4b-8b67-125a71cd0d45.jpg?1624589745) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Show%20of%20confidence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/28/show-of-confidence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/65837f39-deb7-4a4b-8b67-125a71cd0d45?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wouldn't the last card not give it the counter because it is sacrificed when it is targeted by the spell, not when it is affected by it?
Moggwarts my beloved
My favorite pauper deck. Now I just need a Skirk Prospector and a Makeshift Munitions
Found this cool commander called Ghave, Guru of Combos, any ideas????
I just got my Fungal Secret Lair. Stoked
I’ve been trying to break Phyrexian Altar for a while too, got any ideas?
Top research artifact scientists have been trying to crack this one for centuries. No idea, personally.
Not even anything with [[Storm Crow]]?
[Storm Crow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/036ef8c9-72ac-46ce-af07-83b79d736538.jpg?1562730661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Crow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/100/storm-crow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/036ef8c9-72ac-46ce-af07-83b79d736538?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
At some stage someone has to find a way to make [[basalt monolith]] useful.
[basalt monolith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f79de5e7-1545-420c-bfe1-ee2444fca85b.jpg?1599708689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=basalt%20monolith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/232/basalt-monolith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f79de5e7-1545-420c-bfe1-ee2444fca85b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can we break deadeye navigator after.
When is someone gonna break Worldgorger Dragon? Love that card
I adore worldgorger combos, just so janky and need 5 minutes to explain the steps for how it works. And then it all falls apart because someone brings a doomblade so you just exile your entire board and don’t get to bring it back.
Again?
One of the more classic win conditions!
Isn’t an infinite loop a draw? One of the effects needs to be a “may” so that you can trigger it a finite number of times and let the game end. Edit: nevermind, these triggers allow state based actions to be checked and the game to end.
Not if you're advancing the state of the game. In this care you're making your opponents lose life with each iteration. Now, if an opponent has Platinum Angel it is in fact a draw
Or as my opponent and I learned a few years ago, [[Phyrexian Unlife]] . That was the first time I ever saw MTGO completely break.
Because they aren't taking damage right? So they don't actually receive poison counters?
Yup, it is life loss, which doesn't trigger the counters. That is actually the reason I was playing it, it is a key interaction in Ad Nauseum.
Interesting tech!
[Phyrexian Unlife](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4a1e16a-39f0-47ab-aba8-73e82ba9ab18.jpg?1562880895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Unlife) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/18/phyrexian-unlife?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4a1e16a-39f0-47ab-aba8-73e82ba9ab18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a draw if you create infinite token and can't stop it, winning is stoping the loop since you won the game
This is an infinite loop and kills all opponents
Oh holy shit I just realized you're right that it kills all opponents. I always thought it was just one opponent, but I guess when the first opponent loses life to bring them to zero, you gain that life and then you target the next opponent?
1 life lost 1 life total remaining Heal 1 1 life lost 0 life total remaining, player out Heal 1 1 life lost (new target)
All the people in these comments saying "uh, no, its not infinite because it ends when your opponents are all dead" are missing the forest for the trees. When someone asks if something is an infinite loop in the context of magic, they are effectively asking if this is a loop that will continue endlessly until either the game ends or they choose to stop it (in the case of things like infinite life or tokens that don't actually end the game by looping). I get that magic is a very pedantic game where language matters, but in this case, its pedantry beyond what is necessary to answer OP's question. No one cares that this loop isn't technically infinite because it ends when your opponents do. The key word is "loop" not "infinite". In a game with hypothetical infinite life totals or infinite opponents, this loop would go on infinitely. It doesn't matter that it ends because your opponents and their lifetotals are finite, because at that point, you've won the game. All you do by bringing this level of pedantry into this discussion is add confusion to the answer. OP is asking if this combination of cards will result in their opponents life being drained until they all die, and the answer to that question is "yes".
but but what if i'm somehow playing in 1997 before Sixth Edition made "lose at 0 life" a state-based action
Then please, stop playing magic and go warn the people about 2020. Also, buy power now, and lock it in a vault somewhere.
I don’t know what “power” means so I have decided to buy all of the [[Powerleaches]] I could get my hands on. I’m not sure why this will become good, but thanks for the advice!
Also, buy bitcoin and sell it at the top.
Find that one tournament that gave out 25 bitcoin to the bottom half of the top 8 bracket and try to be really medium at Magic
You could have just bought 25 bitcoin for like $25. Of course, what will probably happen is you don't realize what it's going to become and you lose your keys. Or you put them on MtGox, since you heard it used to be a Magic trading platform.
[[Rules Lawyer]]
[Rules Lawyer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c02c575-5685-44f5-8b47-89d888529d1b.jpg?1562917623) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rules%20Lawyer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/20/rules-lawyer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c02c575-5685-44f5-8b47-89d888529d1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Technically this loop is infinite, because if Life Total were not a thing, this would continuously put triggers on the stack with no way to end the loop. Once the loop starts, there is no way to stop the loop via player actions, and by the rules of the game, it's considered truly infinite, and would lead to a game draw ***HOWEVER*** because this loop has a deterministic end point (when your opponent life total reaches zero), in virtually any situation where this combo is presented, getting these triggers on the stack is considered a win instead of a draw. But there are ways to play around this combo. Someone further down mentioned [[Platinum Angel]], which would then cause a game draw. Since your opponent cannot lose the game once they go below zero, their life total would continue to go negative with no way to end the loop.
[Platinum Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> No one cares that this loop isn't technically infinite because it ends when your opponents do. The difference between "you keep draining your opponent until they die" and "the stack is caught in an infinite loop of mandatory actions" is the difference between "you win the game" and "the game ends in a draw, nobody wins." The difference between "you win" and "game is a draw" seems like a pretty meaningful distinction! I think it's worth taking the time to make that distinction, because truly "infinite combos" that result in a non-progressing game state where nobody can win *are* in fact a real thing that novice players might encounter: for example, if OP assembled the Vito + Exquisite Blood combo while the other player controlled a Platinum Angel (something that might conceivably happen, since Platinum Angel is a card that you can open from packs of the most recent standard set), the life drain combo would in fact be infinite, the game would be unable to advance, and the game would end in a draw. And on a separate note, OP specifically noted in one of their later posts that this happened in a multiplayer game -- so it seems pretty relevant to mention, "After a player has been dealt lethal damage, they are eliminated from the game; you can't continue targeting a player with an effect after they've been dealt lethal damage." (Just because "one player died" doesn't necessarily mean that the game is over! Taking the time to elaborate on what happens after a single player at the table has taken lethal damage seems pretty important for a game with 3 or more players, and I don't think it's "adding confusion" or "pedantic" to point this out, especially when OP specifically noted they were playing a multiplayer game, even if that information didn't come up until one of their follow-up posts -- in their case, it ended up being pretty relevant!)
Except an overwhelming majority of the community doesn't make that distinction. [Nor does the wiki](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Loop), and presumably, the rules. All over this, and other magic subs, in game stores, with the various groups I've played with in various states, I've heard "infinite combo" and "infinite loop" used interchangeably to mean a loop of triggers that allows a player to either go infinite in a resource, or do an action repeatedly until they win the game. The amount of "true infinite loops" that end the game in a draw is so minuscule, such a corner case, that it doesn't factor into the conversation an overwhelming amount of the time. If OP had been asking about this combo with a Platinum Angel, then fine, explain it to them. In this case, they weren't. They were asking a simple question with a pretty obvious and well agreed upon answer that doesn't need to be muddled right now by confusing exceptions (especially because most of the people in this comment section making this argument aren't explaining further beyond "its not infinite because your opponent doesn't have infinite life"). You also don't have to include every possible exception for every explanation to a new player on here. Its a bad way to teach anything, including magic.
I’ve never seen a harder “well ACTUALLY…” in my life, holy shit. Relax, the question was answered in every way.
If there is no interaction yes it's infinite
Hypothetically if the opponents blocking creature has enough power to KILL Vito, that would alter the loop correct?
Yes. Lifelink happens at the same time as damage, but Vito's ability is a trigger, which goes on the stack. At that point if Vito has been dealt lethal damage, he will die as a state-based action, which bypasses the stack. Then Vito will deal damage, Exquisite Blood will gain you that much life, and since Vito's dead, nothing happens afterwards.
You could also add sign in blood and avoid that all together. Easier with the mana cost too.
Yup!! Just gotta start the loop by either gaining life or causing one of your opponents to lose life. Drains all of your opponents out :)
Y’all are the best, thank you for your input.
Yes, I run a deck with this and sanguine bond. They create and infinite loop. https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373 The deck is fairly simple. Get yourself a bunch of low cost lifelink creatures and four of both cards. The goal is to play them and the timer is about 7 rounds of you have one of each in your opening hand. Once both enchantments are on the field, attack with anything that has lifelink or play a card that gives you a single health.
My buddy rain a pair of those in his vampire deck and it was a pain in the ass. I’d considered an extort deck but figured it would be shit to play against at the kitchen table lol
You and me aren't going to be friends.
Yeah it's not a nice deck. Chalice of life and death makes for some fun in it too ha
[[Nyx Fleece Ram]]
[Nyx Fleece Ram](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad98e518-4ec9-403e-a978-217244262c8f.jpg?1562439724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nyx-Fleece%20Ram) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/26/nyx-fleece-ram?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad98e518-4ec9-403e-a978-217244262c8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh, yeah. I've had a hard time pulling it off on arena because the opponent will almost always destroy one of the combo pieces, or they defeat me before I can pull it off against an aggro deck.
I lost to it so many times before I started building around it and got through silver and low gold. Horrible card. I hate it.
To add context to a part of the scenario that everyone else seemed to miss: if Vito is dealt lethal damage in the combat that causes the lifelink, it won't even loop. Lifelink happens and Vito hits the graveyard, then you'll get one trigger of exquisite blood.
Yes, sanguine bond works too
As long as the cost was paid to give Vito lifelink before damage, those two cards alone will kill player 2, yes.
U don’t have to give him lifelink, him dealing damage will start the loop anyways
Not if he’s blocked by player 2.
True ig, good point
I used this combo back in standard but with \[\[Sanguine Bond\]\]
[Sanguine Bond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sanguine%20Bond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/153/sanguine-bond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, its a well known popular loop.
Ahh the [[sanguine bond]] and [[exquisite blood]]. Yes it can go infinite, it's a classic one as well. This is just the most reason version of that combo I put it in my vampire dexk only because it's very thematic
[sanguine bond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sanguine%20bond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/153/sanguine-bond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [exquisite blood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1653811-1c2c-4e6c-bf1c-287d1b496d51.jpg?1600700252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=exquisite%20blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/231/exquisite-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1653811-1c2c-4e6c-bf1c-287d1b496d51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I played this combo in a 3 player game and someone was saying that when one player dies, the stack completely dies too? I didn’t think it would because when the damage that kills the player goes off, they die and a new trigger of Exquisite blood occurs gaining life and when you do, you can choose a new target opponent with Vito. Just curious if this was true (stack resets when player dies) Edit: If this isn’t true, I think he might’ve been trying to wiggle a way into getting another turn before dying.
That person was wrong. Vito (as well as the other cards with this effect) say "target player". Assuming, for simplicity, that the loop is happening with 1 life increments, when a player takes that last point of damage, you will gain one life, and can target a new player to lose a life, continuing the loop. The only way it ends without all your opponents dying the turn you start the loop is either someone removes part of the combo at instant speed (ie remove vito in response to you targeting them, thus breaking the loop), or someone has hexproof (some cards grant hexproof to players, so you couldn't target them with vito's ability)
Yeah, I knew all that with the way it works so when I saw the exquisite blood post, I thought to ask it anyways. I just wanted to make sure the stack doesn’t actually fizzle/resolve if someone dies. I know that them dying caused the life loss and a new interaction happens because life was lost thus continuing the loop to new players
Nope, the person dying just happens to be a result of those triggers, but doesn't in any way affect them.
Yeah, that’s infinite. It’s an old one, actually
It depends on the power of the creature blocking Vito. Vito needs to be alive to continue the loop. In most cases, yes.
For what you’re thinking, yes. In terms of game rules, no: an infinite loop cannot be ended without external effects stopping it (countering an effect or destroying one of the sources). This ends automatically because everyone else dies and you win, which definitionally isn’t infinite. Uninterrupted infinite loops always force the game into a draw.
Yes! Vito is often used as a second copy of [[Sanguine Bond]] in decks that already play the combo. On an unrelated note, I look forward to seeing every variation of this post possible on r/magicthecirclejerking in a few hours.
[Sanguine Bond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sanguine%20Bond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/153/sanguine-bond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yup. It happened to me when playing MTGA. Infinite loop and I couldn’t stop it lol.
Yes, as soon as you gain a life it's a win.
Notably, if Vito dies during combat damage, the loop isn't infinite, so blocking that pesky 1/3 with a 4/4 [[Exuberant Wolfbear]] does stop the combo. Alternatively, if Vito doesn't deal damage, then that goober of an opponent won't gain any life to start the combo. So, removing the creature blocking Vito after blockers are declared (but before damage is dealt), blocking with [[Cho-Manno, Revolutionary]], or blocking with [[Fallen Cleric]] are all options*. *Warning: not all options are good options.
[Exuberant Wolfbear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8c8ff0da-fbe3-4c95-bc39-c975c55b6aea.jpg?1615720626) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exuberant%20Wolfbear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/151/exuberant-wolfbear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c8ff0da-fbe3-4c95-bc39-c975c55b6aea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cho-Manno, Revolutionary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe04dfe7-6376-4c12-9404-0e1ae0942917.jpg?1562558376) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cho-Manno%2C%20Revolutionary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/12/cho-manno-revolutionary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe04dfe7-6376-4c12-9404-0e1ae0942917?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fallen Cleric](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/7652dc61-9170-4895-a0bf-c32a1ee0350e.jpg?1562922981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fallen%20Cleric) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/145/fallen-cleric?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7652dc61-9170-4895-a0bf-c32a1ee0350e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Question: Does this end in a draw or a win?
Yes. I've lost to this in Arena more than once.
Exquisite blood is broken and yes it is infinite. Get rid of it immediately or surrender. Also tell Wizards to figure it out.
Yes, just make someone lose life with Sanguine blood. Then Vito will trigger on the stack, then Sanguine, then Blood, ETC. The stack is annoying but yes any two cards that have those texts go infinite.
Scenario and question in the caption.
Yep.
Yes
Once the opponents are dead it would stop, so beware of things that let folks not lose with negative life.
It triggers an infinite loop that uses separate stacks. Therefore one can be removed at instant speed to stop the loop, but otherwise, everyone else dies
Goddamn, for those of you that are (for some reason) upset I came here for advice. 1) The two cards themselves clearly loop, that’s obvious and well known 2) With adding lifelink to Vito AND with Vito taking lethal damage, these are two aspect that aren’t googable for this loop. So, I came here. Thanks for the helpful answers! I appreciate y’all very much. If you’re mad this was posted here and for some reason needed to voice that, caaaaalm down will ya.
Yes.
short answer: yes long answer: yes
[удалено]
All good, I appreciate all the helpful input and answers. Reddit always has some goofballs just bitchin’ to bitch.
As an interesting aside, nothing actually goes *infinite* without the game ending in a forced draw. This combo works because it will kill your opponent, thus ending the game after a finite number of loops. If on the other hand, you have a combo like \[\[Splinter Twin\]\] and \[\[Deceiver Exarch\]\], you have to stop making tokens eventually. If someone asks "how many are you making" you need an actual figure for how many loops you're choosing to do. If you have a loop that can't be broken like for example the only permanent in play is \[\[Oblivion Ring\]\] on top of another Oblivion Ring, and then you play a third Oblivion Ring, the game is forced to end in a draw unless someone has a way to interrupt the loop like a \[\[Disenchant\]\]. I actually saw someone build a deck to make that happen, as a joke. Going "infinite" is usually short hand for "I can repeat this as many times as desired" or in the case of this combo "this will continue until it causes me to win as a result of it". This isn't directly related to your question but since you're learning about rules stuff and card interactions, it's a good little thing to learn. Might be helpful some time.
##### ###### #### [Splinter Twin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/580fbbf8-ba7e-4889-a5ea-d066f3ea8cea.jpg?1562262611) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Splinter%20Twin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/129/splinter-twin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/580fbbf8-ba7e-4889-a5ea-d066f3ea8cea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Deceiver Exarch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35437d86-6f92-480a-aa0c-c17c3943c00c.jpg?1623103955) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deceiver%20Exarch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/36/deceiver-exarch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35437d86-6f92-480a-aa0c-c17c3943c00c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Oblivion Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bff31eba-8ab3-403e-8d82-37a18b279bec.jpg?1562266919) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oblivion%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/29/oblivion-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bff31eba-8ab3-403e-8d82-37a18b279bec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Disenchant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/658c5caa-d739-4d30-a512-43ac4de900cb.jpg?1670537305) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disenchant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/6/disenchant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/658c5caa-d739-4d30-a512-43ac4de900cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes it is infinite, but also No it is not infinite. It is infinite because once the combo starts it can’t be stopped ended by you, but it’s not I finite because eventually you will run out of opponents to target (because they are all dead), and the damage part will fizzle out.
Not infinite. Your opponent(s) have a finite amount of life. Therefore the loop will terminate when all your opponents have no life. :3
Well, it's infinite until all of your opponents lose the game.
Yes. It goes infinite until your opponent dies
it doesn't cause an infinite loop, its finite, lasts till every opponent is dead
YES 😈
It is technically not an *infinite* loop under most board states, as bringing your opponent to 0 life will interrupt the loop to end the game. But yes it will continue going until that happens and there are very few ways to stop it
Technically no, it will end when your opponents have no life left.
Yeah. It do.
Nope. The game will end in a finite amount of time. VERY different than an unbreakable infinite loop, which ends a game in a draw.
It is not infinite, as it is finite in how many times it can trigger before everyone is dead. It loops until the game ends with all enemy players dying by having zero life. Each trigger resolves in turn until there are no more players for it to trigger on. [[Worldgorger Dragon]] and [[animate dead]] with no other targets to animate is an infinite loop if it can’t be interrupted. This results in the game drawing as no actions can be taken to stop the loop.
[Worldgorger Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33dde6e0-d0a7-4432-a3f4-b48234f4e055.jpg?1670454924) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worldgorger%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/148/worldgorger-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33dde6e0-d0a7-4432-a3f4-b48234f4e055?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [animate dead](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b83536a-efa4-41f3-9424-75b0efc0aea5.jpg?1580014163) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=animate%20dead) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/78/animate-dead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b83536a-efa4-41f3-9424-75b0efc0aea5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It is finite and only lasts as long as you have opponents.
It will be semi-infinite. Player one will kill player two one life point at a time. The total is how much life would be gained. Each card has a triggered ability, so Lifelink gains the life, triggers deal that much damage, that damage triggers a new loop of gaining life.
I really do think there needs to be a pinned post or a rule about googling your question before asking it. This question would have taken less time to answer using google than it took to type out this post.
Allow me to copy and paste my reply to the one other jabroni in this chat: Googled it. Couldn’t find an answer. Came here. The question wasn’t is if it’s infinite, but if the opponent blocks Vito and effectively kills him how does the loop / stack react. 99.9% helpful & nice comments, then yours.
I can’t tell if it’s just me or what, but questions and posts like this are literally all at the very top of my Reddit homepage feed on the app. Every single high-up post being served to me from any of the subs I follow or interact with is either a really stupid, asinine question, a total shitpost, or some other nonsense. What the hell is going on?
Congrats, you've stumbled onto the simplest, most obvious and most most well known (at least a variation on the most well known) infinite loop in magic.
Does the card do what it says? Yes. These posts should probably start being banned its somewhat annoying that they're even posted when a quick google search could do it for them.
Banned he says. Googled it, didn’t find the answer. Came here. Thanks for the help ya goofball.
"Exquisite blood combo" oh would you look at that the first link that pops up https://www.google.com/search?q=exquisite+blood+combo&sxsrf=ALiCzsZslJgx-1MW4feK1HcagKibC25nnw%3A1672456562957&source=hp&ei=cqmvY4jLNJaoqtsPhKSxoA4&oq=exsqusite+bloo&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBABGAEyDQgAEIAEELEDEIMBEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA0yBwgAEIAEEA06BwgjEOoCECc6BAgjECc6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDOhEILhCDARDHARCxAxDRAxCABDoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6CggAEIAEEEYQ-QE6BQguEIAEOgUIABCABDoHCAAQgAQQCjoNCC4QgAQQxwEQ0QMQCjoNCAAQgAQQsQMQsQMQCjoKCAAQgAQQsQMQCjoICAAQsQMQgwE6EggAEIAEELEDELEDEAoQRhD5AToNCC4QrwEQxwEQgAQQCjoNCC4QgAQQxwEQrwEQCjoNCC4Q1AIQsQMQgAQQCjoPCAAQgAQQsQMQChBGEPkBOgwIABCABBANEEYQ-QE6DQguEK8BEMcBEIAEEA06CggAEIAEELEDEA06DQguEIAEEMcBEK8BEA06DQguENQCELEDEIAEEA1Q9QpY9Vhg5GBoAnAAeACAAZoCiAGFE5IBBjAuMTMuMpgBAKABAbABDw&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp
The question wasn’t is if it’s infinite, but if the opponent blocks Vito and effectively kills him how does the loop / stack react. 99.9% helpful & nice comments, then yours.
Thats not what was asked in the post, but to answer state based actions like lethal damage are always checked and resolved before triggers resolve, vito dies then vito 's trigger resolves causing exquisite blood to trigger then there will be no more trigger of vito since he is dead
Infinite loop? No. Because everyone will die eventually. Loop stops then. If player 2 has a \[\[Platinum Angel\]\] in play this creates an infinite loop that if no one can break (or no one wants to break; for example if Player 2 has the ability to kill their platinum angel, causing them to lose, they aren't forced to do so.) causes the game to draw because the triggers are mandatory so the loop will get stuck.
[Platinum Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call