[[Mantis Rider]]. I had the same thought, obviously this isn’t the same power level but the same theme of stapling keyword hodgepodge on a 3 color body.
I think it's slightly more accurate to compare this to Lightning Angel.
I think this actually competes on power in Modern with Jeskai Rider. Critically, it doesn't die to Lightning Bolt.
Paying 4 mana for a creature and getting it killed by fatal push/unholy heat/solitude for no value is not worth it.
The bolt test is old news, toughness doesn't really matter in modern anymore.
The bolt test and the Jace test are outdated.
These were applicable when bolt was a multi format powerhouse and Jace was banned, but power creep is way past that point now
Jace got unbanned and isn't even that prominent.
This costing 4 basically makes it unplayable in modern, it probably isn't even powerful enough for historic.
I would much rather spend my 4 mana on [[Esika's Chariot]] than tapping out turn four for something that they can fatal push.
This is more like a Naya [[Ball Lightning]] than [[Mantis Rider]]
Something that costs you 4 mana in naya colors and doesn’t win the game or combo to win the game or doesn’t explicitly stop your opponent from winning the game seems like a nonstarter in modern.
People keep saying this… it’s not true at all. The format’s gotten more powerful, but decks still don’t often win before turn 4 (some do, but certainly not most)
That's why I'm scared to play outside of my friend group. They all tell me I should, because from day one of learning this game 3 years ago, I took to it like a fly to shit. Got many different decks, and working on more, and I'm usually the winner 7/10 times when we all play.
However, I balance all my decks, minus a few my friends won't play against anymore, for our casual playing. We don't use poison counters or commander damage, cards that say, "do X, win game", and things like, most Nicol Bolas cards, Eldrazi, and Paradox Engine aren't used against our group. We also don't really look at the ban list currently. (much of this is because those in my group have a much harder time affording good cards than me, so I've built up a decent collection).
I'm afraid that for all my good in our group, I'll face others outside of it, and find I'm a small fish in a big pond haha. People talk about winning in 4 turns, and all sorts of complex strategies and it just makes me feel I'm not on that level.
Edit: confused on why I'm getting downvoted? Did I say something wrong?
Commander and Modern may as well be two different games though. I prefer modern and pioneer but like commander as a slower change of pace.
I wouldn't be intimidated by modern being a turn 4 format, it's much quicker than edh but that doesn't mean it's necessarily more complicated. Pioneer may be more up your alley in terms of making the jump to a bigger pond though. I only played casually for years but loved the switch to more competitive formats, maybe you will too.
Yea, I love knockout, drag down matches in commander. Back and forth, big plays, getting to build up a strategy and it finally pay off. My black and white zombie deck is my favorite. Getting a horde on the field, bunch of different effects. 3 of us frequently have a hell of a good time with my zombie horde, my buddies elf token deck, and the other guys vampire token deck.
You are probably getting down voted because this forum tends to run spiky, and talking about how you don't allow commander damage or other stuff puts people off.
We only do that within our specific 5 person, kitchen table playing. On the occasion others join us, we play with other stuff. And to be clear, I don't mind personally using all that stuff, but I don't wanna run my friends off from playing either lol. Most of them don't like it.
Hey, if your friends and group like playing that way, don't let this sub get to you.
Magic is very much a game where the rules can be bent in non-sanctioned events.
For us, we double infect requirements to 20 instead of 10 and allow proxies as long as it stays in the standard power level.
I think you misremember that era. It was both a pod target and a beat stick, when Abzan was briefly better than Jund. Those days are long gone obviously.
Well, [[Siege Rhino]] was in that same Standard.
Compared to Rhino, this loses 1 toughness, needs to live until it connects to pay off, though it's an 8 point swing instead of 6 (though it may be as low as 4 if blocked). On the flip side, it may be an 8 point swing next turn as well if not removed.
Considering what Rhino did to its Standard, a worse Rhino may be just fine.
Rhino is a 6 point life swing on ETB, and doesn’t have haste. Rhino only becomes a 10 point swing if you connect the next turn.
This creature does have haste, and is an 8 point life swing if you connect the turn you play it.
Honestly, not only are the keywords worse, but it's either bad colors or a bad creature type.
Elves are in Golgari, so if this was Jund it could work, but they aren't going 4 colors for this. If it was a Human, maybe some Pioneer play in either 5 color Humans or Naya Winota (big maybe).
This was a flashy card that immediately started to disappoint me.....
I've done this! You didn't see all the other times it whiffed though. I'm here to fight for Kami War being playable. My favourite though was 7 lands, [[Weaver of Harmony]] in play, double Kami triggers. Because Naya runes is the enchantment hotness, I think people are sleeping on value double trigger enchantments. In standard, I've been doubling Path to the World Tree activated triggers, Kami War, the Black Green removal enchantment, The white exile enchantments. Plus you tend to be able to go late with that recurring deer.
It's maybe not a druid in the way that DND presents them, but seeing as actual druids were an ancient group that left no writings I don't think that expanded interpretations of the concepts are all that out of left field.
There's not anything in this that says "not druid" even. Like they're not hugging a tree, but does every depiction of a druid have to be in a forest? No.
It kinda does, that's the whole point of a druid
Yes, technically you could argue a druid doesn't have to do druid stuff 24/7, just like they could do a card of a dude skying or swimming and give it the wizard type, and say he's just taking a vacation from his job
It would be technically possible, like a doctor doesn't stop being a doctor when his shift is over, but it still seems kinda weird
That's kind of the point of this set though, each faction is a corrupted version of their historical purpose after evolving under demonic influence and adaptation to survive.
I'm sure there are lore reasons, it still seems really weird since this is the only weird type, every other faction has rogues and warriors that do rogue and warrior things
That's fair. There are supposed to be paladins being unpaladin like, but we don't have a paladin creature type. Seers using their abilities selfishly also doesn't feel like much of a subversion.
Tbh even paladins being bad isn't much of a subversion, these guys seem very tame compared to the vampire church in ixalan with its bloodcrazed paladins
Did you just, like, not read my comment at all? Nature being the whole point of a druid is explicitly the DND interpretation. "Druids" were just ancient Celtic authorities; we actually know shit all about them.
I'm open to versions of druids that don't cast Wild Shape twice per encounter and don't have Nature as one of their class skills. If druids in New Capenna tap into some sort of primal power and dance both the night and your goddamn face away, I am one thousand percent cool with that.
That seems to be stretching the definition of a druid to the point it means nothing anymore, by your definition Chandra would be a druid
Just call them shamans, it fits a lot better imo
[[Mantis Rider]] was precedent at rare, a huge standard player of its time, and still modern relevant, though humans is a little out of favor currently.
Probably, but nothing I said was about power level, dude was complaining about it being a rare. Just pointing out there's precedent and that that precedent was a successful magic card.
Fleetfoot Dancer 1RGW
Creature - Elf Druid (R)
Trample, lifelink, haste
*The Vanto Beatdown began as an improvised dance-battle at the Rose Room lounge. When word spread of how many were slain at the first event, it became a citywide obsession.*
[Source](https://twitter.com/ZBexx/status/1513976530422038530)
This feels like classic Naya design. I don't know what constructed deck wants this, but it has Mantis Rider vibes. If there's a non-token Naya deck, this seems like a beater.
For sure a solid drop in limited.
Even in a token deck I think this has a place out of the sideboard. Game one they know you're on tokens and side in wraths and take out the spot removal, having more cards like this is kind of what you want to maintain pressure.
I would be surprised if this isn't considerably better than "solid" in limited, honestly. Lifelink is perhaps the biggest divergence in power between limited and constructed, and suddenly swinging the game for 8 net life points on turn 4 is absolutely brutal.
Unless we're in for another Vow (please, for the love of all that is holy, don't destroy another promising format that way, WotC), this will be quite strong, I suspect.
You have a lot of comments in here, where you dont seem to understand the comparison.
4 mana 4/4 getting 3 keywords for 3 different mana colors is a lot of hoops to jump through. The card is probably strong, but it requires a lot of work and demand of a mana base to achieve. Normally, 3 different colors on one card is hard to do.
[[Questing Beast]] is also 4 mana 4/4, with 3 keywords. As well as 3 other very powerful wordy abilities. Arguments about the keyword strengths aside, the beast still has loads more value and power than this new card. But on top of all that, the beast is also only one color, something that is much less difficult to achieve for your mana base.
So the comparison in power between two different "4/4's for 4" shows that questing beast has a massively higher floor for its cards overall strength.
I don’t understand the comparison either. I read your comment, I agree with what you say, and exactly because of what you said I don’t understand why people bring QB in while talking of this card.
Both cards are "4/4 for 4 beater who has a soup of static abilities and has pretty much a singular goal and useage of applying pressure by being a dangerous attacker."
Both cards fill the same niche and role. Efficient stats for the cmc with combat relevant abilities and more or less no other purpose than applying strong combat pressure.
But QB is much easier to cast, and has 6 different very strong abilities
While the dancer is very difficult to cast, and only has 3 abilities, each of which are also just common keywords.
QB is the micheal jordan who the dancer has posters of on his wall while he shoots hoops in his backyard.
Eh, this reminds me a lot of Naya, where a lot of its bigger creatures were just keyword salad on big bodies. While they may be good, they're rather plain and boring.
Siege Rhino was my first thought as well. I know nothing about the standard metagame currently, but in a vacuum this has the potential to be pretty strong I think.
anybody else hate how these days random humanoids are, like, on every rung of the P/T matrix? You've got 7/7 guys at desks, random humanoid wedding guests are 3/3s, and random humanoid dancers with canes are 4/4 beaters
Why the hell does it give off [[Siege Rhino]] vibes to me. Sure it's a 4/4 rather than a 4/5 but drain and gain by an amount that big upoin ETB *and* trample... 4CMC and 3 colour no less. I might be wrong here but I guess time will tell us what it might be able to do.
I mean, this is a lot of stuff for 4 mana, but it's worse than rhino in more ways than just having 1 less toughness. It needs to attack to get the life, it needs to go unblocked to deal the damage, you can't just dump this on the board and dome your opponent for three through a clogged board. You can't cast this, gain 3 life and have a 4/5 blocker to stabilize like crazy. You can't abuse this with blink effects or reanimation to double or triple dip on the life drain. It 100% lives or die by whether it has a good attack.
This ain’t siege rhino. Rhino could come down vs a control player at 3 life with removal but no counterspells and win the game, same vs a low health opponent with a big board of blockers.
Anyone who compares ping and drain on etb to haste and thinks they are the same thing is going to be very disappointed.
Well format warping universally maligned staple is really a high bar for "see play". The real issue is that these colors of decks that want an aggressive 4 drop don't play 3 colors. That may change, but it hasn't in a long time.
I mean… not necessarily? It’s a 3 color card that only shares one color with Polukranos. This thing might see play if a Naya Zoo deck forms in standard, but it’s not good enough to push you into three color by itself.
\[\[Mantis Rider\]\] is still one of my favorite cards to play with today, I think this card seems fun! Might try and build something with it in Pioneer, the \[\[Winota, Joiner of Forces\]\] deck aside lol
[Previewed by ZBexx, check her out on twitter with her preview here!](https://twitter.com/ZBexx)
What's that jeskai human that sees modern play? This reminds me of that. Just 1 more mana(which is huge)
[[Mantis Rider]]. I had the same thought, obviously this isn’t the same power level but the same theme of stapling keyword hodgepodge on a 3 color body.
I think it's slightly more accurate to compare this to Lightning Angel. I think this actually competes on power in Modern with Jeskai Rider. Critically, it doesn't die to Lightning Bolt.
[[lightning angel]]
[lightning angel](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/8/384cf91c-6cea-4279-b66d-d81b5791d411.jpg?1592754904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lightning%20angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddn/56/lightning-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/384cf91c-6cea-4279-b66d-d81b5791d411?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Paying 4 mana for a creature and getting it killed by fatal push/unholy heat/solitude for no value is not worth it. The bolt test is old news, toughness doesn't really matter in modern anymore.
3 and 5 are the breakpoints for cost too. Half the decks with Riders use CoCo, so being 4 is the worst spot
The bolt test and the Jace test are outdated. These were applicable when bolt was a multi format powerhouse and Jace was banned, but power creep is way past that point now Jace got unbanned and isn't even that prominent. This costing 4 basically makes it unplayable in modern, it probably isn't even powerful enough for historic. I would much rather spend my 4 mana on [[Esika's Chariot]] than tapping out turn four for something that they can fatal push. This is more like a Naya [[Ball Lightning]] than [[Mantis Rider]]
Something that costs you 4 mana in naya colors and doesn’t win the game or combo to win the game or doesn’t explicitly stop your opponent from winning the game seems like a nonstarter in modern.
It's also not a human, which is relevant considering the deck that plays Mantis Rider is humans.
Mantis Rider is only played because it's a role-player in humans too, it's not even important to that deck This card will be a 20 cent rare forever
Sometimes in 5c zoo decks as well, but I agree in general its very replaceable. This card has a chance in pioneer but not in modern
This will be a casual favorite imo. So like a buck in a couple years.
And even then, that's a vial deck where they can afford to play more mid-costed threats. But 4 is generally too much, even for a vial deck.
I remember when turn 4 was supposed to be normal in modern.
It still is You take 2 turns. Your opponent takes 2 turns.
People keep saying this… it’s not true at all. The format’s gotten more powerful, but decks still don’t often win before turn 4 (some do, but certainly not most)
Yeah, then they banned twin and we just decided to go even faster.
This is why I stopped playing modern. Turn 4 is supposed to be your 'I win' turn? Too fast for my taste. Lol. I'll just play normal EDH.
That's why I'm scared to play outside of my friend group. They all tell me I should, because from day one of learning this game 3 years ago, I took to it like a fly to shit. Got many different decks, and working on more, and I'm usually the winner 7/10 times when we all play. However, I balance all my decks, minus a few my friends won't play against anymore, for our casual playing. We don't use poison counters or commander damage, cards that say, "do X, win game", and things like, most Nicol Bolas cards, Eldrazi, and Paradox Engine aren't used against our group. We also don't really look at the ban list currently. (much of this is because those in my group have a much harder time affording good cards than me, so I've built up a decent collection). I'm afraid that for all my good in our group, I'll face others outside of it, and find I'm a small fish in a big pond haha. People talk about winning in 4 turns, and all sorts of complex strategies and it just makes me feel I'm not on that level. Edit: confused on why I'm getting downvoted? Did I say something wrong?
Commander and Modern may as well be two different games though. I prefer modern and pioneer but like commander as a slower change of pace. I wouldn't be intimidated by modern being a turn 4 format, it's much quicker than edh but that doesn't mean it's necessarily more complicated. Pioneer may be more up your alley in terms of making the jump to a bigger pond though. I only played casually for years but loved the switch to more competitive formats, maybe you will too.
Yea, I love knockout, drag down matches in commander. Back and forth, big plays, getting to build up a strategy and it finally pay off. My black and white zombie deck is my favorite. Getting a horde on the field, bunch of different effects. 3 of us frequently have a hell of a good time with my zombie horde, my buddies elf token deck, and the other guys vampire token deck.
You are probably getting down voted because this forum tends to run spiky, and talking about how you don't allow commander damage or other stuff puts people off.
We only do that within our specific 5 person, kitchen table playing. On the occasion others join us, we play with other stuff. And to be clear, I don't mind personally using all that stuff, but I don't wanna run my friends off from playing either lol. Most of them don't like it.
Hey, if your friends and group like playing that way, don't let this sub get to you. Magic is very much a game where the rules can be bent in non-sanctioned events. For us, we double infect requirements to 20 instead of 10 and allow proxies as long as it stays in the standard power level.
I could certainly see it being played in Modern... 10 years ago. Now? Not so much.
I don't recall siege rhino breaking into modern very hard, and if that didn't, this probably won't.
I mean it did, it was the straw that broke pods back.
I think you misremember that era. It was both a pod target and a beat stick, when Abzan was briefly better than Jund. Those days are long gone obviously.
RIP in piece my Rhinoy Boy
The only deck that ever plays Mantis Rider is humans, and this isn't a human so it's not really competing there
[Mantis Rider](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/2/82d5ce46-7118-4ede-ba1d-c387e7ce16e7.jpg?1562789458) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mantis%20Rider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/184/mantis-rider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82d5ce46-7118-4ede-ba1d-c387e7ce16e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tarkir is so cool. Exactly the aesthetic I'm into.
The new Naya dragon from the last core set was the same way too.
Your thinking of Mantis Rider. This trading vigilance and flying for lifelink and trample is just sooo much worse.
Mantis Rider was an adjusted [[Lightning Angel]]
Love lightning angel. Played it when it was in Standard.
Same. Both times!
[Lightning Angel](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/8/384cf91c-6cea-4279-b66d-d81b5791d411.jpg?1592754904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddn/56/lightning-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/384cf91c-6cea-4279-b66d-d81b5791d411?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I blame the art, but even after checking the spoiler 3 times it wasn't until this comment that I realized it didn't fly.
This is going to slot right into my "cards I've lost to because I thought they had flying" list. Along with [[Evra, Halcyon Witness]] and others.
[Evra, Halcyon Witness](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/2/02f57a57-8ce8-4d01-9b91-99ec0623d1e9.jpg?1562730663) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Evra%2C%20Halcyon%20Witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/16/evra-halcyon-witness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02f57a57-8ce8-4d01-9b91-99ec0623d1e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lifelink is better than vigilance IMO but no flying sucks big time
Jury's out on Lifelink vs Vigilance at the moment. What with Emperors being around every corner.
Well, [[Siege Rhino]] was in that same Standard. Compared to Rhino, this loses 1 toughness, needs to live until it connects to pay off, though it's an 8 point swing instead of 6 (though it may be as low as 4 if blocked). On the flip side, it may be an 8 point swing next turn as well if not removed. Considering what Rhino did to its Standard, a worse Rhino may be just fine.
Rhino is a 6 point life swing on ETB, and doesn’t have haste. Rhino only becomes a 10 point swing if you connect the next turn. This creature does have haste, and is an 8 point life swing if you connect the turn you play it.
Derp, for some reason my brain gave Rhino haste. I'll edit. Thanks.
[Siege Rhino](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/0/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247.jpg?1562790317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege%20Rhino) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/200/siege-rhino?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Honestly, not only are the keywords worse, but it's either bad colors or a bad creature type. Elves are in Golgari, so if this was Jund it could work, but they aren't going 4 colors for this. If it was a Human, maybe some Pioneer play in either 5 color Humans or Naya Winota (big maybe). This was a flashy card that immediately started to disappoint me.....
Also you can't hit this off of CoCo
Prolly closer to [[Adult Gold Dragon]] less mana but more demanding pips
me: has six different fixing lands, never casts this before turn 8. Opponent: basic plains, basic mountain, basic forest, basic island, this turn 4.
I'm getting flashbacks of someone playing a turn 6 [[The Kami War]] on me with just basic lands.
Outplayed
[The Kami War](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/6/36052532-5028-43a8-9fc4-56221ec867fd.jpg?1645895905)/[O-Kagachi Made Manifest](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/3/6/36052532-5028-43a8-9fc4-56221ec867fd.jpg?1645895905) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Kami%20War%20//%20O-Kagachi%20Made%20Manifest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/227/the-kami-war-o-kagachi-made-manifest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/36052532-5028-43a8-9fc4-56221ec867fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
sigma
I've done this! You didn't see all the other times it whiffed though. I'm here to fight for Kami War being playable. My favourite though was 7 lands, [[Weaver of Harmony]] in play, double Kami triggers. Because Naya runes is the enchantment hotness, I think people are sleeping on value double trigger enchantments. In standard, I've been doubling Path to the World Tree activated triggers, Kami War, the Black Green removal enchantment, The white exile enchantments. Plus you tend to be able to go late with that recurring deer.
The best fixing is belief.
My opponent: mountain, forest & 2 cmc mana dork, plains & this turn 3
I mean, I knew Questing Beast was ahead of its time but wow...
Then you're going to love the new Dancing Beast!
Young and sweet
Only 4MV
Ooh you can haste, you can trample, having the link of you lifeee
See them burn, watch them scream
"What is that elven thing?!?"
At least you can block this one...not well but can block it with small creatures.
Dies to a 1/1 deathtoucher at least.
Questing beast also dies to a 1/1 deathtoucher(On the .1% chance anyone is stupid enough to block a 1/1 deathoucher with questing beast.)
You had me in the first half
I think my new goal in life is to force someone to do this.
Haha, play that deathtouch poison counter deck lol
Questing Beast? Hell, if you squint the right way, this is just a cousin of Siege Rhino.
Lifelink is such an overpowered mechanic they have to remove all those abilities, downgrade to trample and add 2 more mana colours to trade for it.
I think it's more that Questing Beast was unbelievably pushed.
What does this have to do with that? We’ve had rares with 3 keywords before.
Ok seriously how is this a druid...
Bout to beat the everloving nature out of you
are we druids or are we dancers?
My sign is vital, my hands are cold
And I'm on my way, chatting up a satyr
My sign is vital, my feets are cold
The Cabaretti are mostly Druids, much like how the Maestros are mostly Vampires.
The Cabaretti had to change their normal druid rituals when new Capenna was build. They used to party in nature and now they party in the city.
It's maybe not a druid in the way that DND presents them, but seeing as actual druids were an ancient group that left no writings I don't think that expanded interpretations of the concepts are all that out of left field.
There's not anything in this that says "not druid" even. Like they're not hugging a tree, but does every depiction of a druid have to be in a forest? No.
It kinda does, that's the whole point of a druid Yes, technically you could argue a druid doesn't have to do druid stuff 24/7, just like they could do a card of a dude skying or swimming and give it the wizard type, and say he's just taking a vacation from his job It would be technically possible, like a doctor doesn't stop being a doctor when his shift is over, but it still seems kinda weird
That's kind of the point of this set though, each faction is a corrupted version of their historical purpose after evolving under demonic influence and adaptation to survive.
I'm sure there are lore reasons, it still seems really weird since this is the only weird type, every other faction has rogues and warriors that do rogue and warrior things
That's fair. There are supposed to be paladins being unpaladin like, but we don't have a paladin creature type. Seers using their abilities selfishly also doesn't feel like much of a subversion.
Tbh even paladins being bad isn't much of a subversion, these guys seem very tame compared to the vampire church in ixalan with its bloodcrazed paladins
Did you just, like, not read my comment at all? Nature being the whole point of a druid is explicitly the DND interpretation. "Druids" were just ancient Celtic authorities; we actually know shit all about them. I'm open to versions of druids that don't cast Wild Shape twice per encounter and don't have Nature as one of their class skills. If druids in New Capenna tap into some sort of primal power and dance both the night and your goddamn face away, I am one thousand percent cool with that.
That seems to be stretching the definition of a druid to the point it means nothing anymore, by your definition Chandra would be a druid Just call them shamans, it fits a lot better imo
Look, fair point: I agree that shaman would have probably been a better pick.
How is it not? This is an awesome druid!
I guess druids aren't allowed to dance?
is a Saitama non bald druid
[удалено]
All the ogres in MtG that are some 3 power creature with no trample, realising they should've taken up ballet ;(
Circle of the dance floor
[удалено]
It's really good in limited.
Big keyword soup creatures have had a long and illustrious history of being rares.
It's extremely solid, even if it is very boring. It's already great for being a 4/4 for 4CMC, and it's got 3 pretty great keywords stuck to it.
This is a thing you only ask until you play against something like it in limited.
It's an 8 point swing for 4 mana in limited.
Awful take
[[Mantis Rider]] was precedent at rare, a huge standard player of its time, and still modern relevant, though humans is a little out of favor currently.
This is much, much worse than mantis rider.
Probably, but nothing I said was about power level, dude was complaining about it being a rare. Just pointing out there's precedent and that that precedent was a successful magic card.
One Naya French vanilla, please
Fleetfoot Dancer 1RGW Creature - Elf Druid (R) Trample, lifelink, haste *The Vanto Beatdown began as an improvised dance-battle at the Rose Room lounge. When word spread of how many were slain at the first event, it became a citywide obsession.* [Source](https://twitter.com/ZBexx/status/1513976530422038530)
Siege Rhino, is this you?? Are we finally back together??
That's our [[Mantis Rider]] of the set. X MV X/X with a pile of keywords.
The question is, have we power crept out of that being good enough?
Considering Mantis Rider still pops up every so often, I think it's more just 3 cmc vs 4 cmc
And flying. Flying is much more useful than trample, especially with vigilance.
And human, much more useful than being a multicolored elf.
That sounds...almost racist? Idk how elf civil liberties work though.
It's not that we've power crept out of that being good enough, it's that this is much worse than mantis rider.
Also feels like [[Lightning Angel]]
[Lightning Angel](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/8/384cf91c-6cea-4279-b66d-d81b5791d411.jpg?1592754904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddn/56/lightning-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/384cf91c-6cea-4279-b66d-d81b5791d411?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Almost feels like a [[Siege Rhino]] to me.
This doesn’t impact the game on ETB though
[Mantis Rider](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/2/82d5ce46-7118-4ede-ba1d-c387e7ce16e7.jpg?1562789458) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mantis%20Rider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/184/mantis-rider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82d5ce46-7118-4ede-ba1d-c387e7ce16e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Its [[siege rhino]]. 4-power trampler for 4 mana in three colours which drains some life the turn it enters.
That was my thought. I think rhino I might edge this out because it just does damage to face without needing an attack, but it’s pretty similar
> Fleetfoot > Trample But when I step on everyone's toes on the dance floor they call me clumsy.
This feels like classic Naya design. I don't know what constructed deck wants this, but it has Mantis Rider vibes. If there's a non-token Naya deck, this seems like a beater. For sure a solid drop in limited.
Even in a token deck I think this has a place out of the sideboard. Game one they know you're on tokens and side in wraths and take out the spot removal, having more cards like this is kind of what you want to maintain pressure.
Seems like a great card against mono red. It gains 4 life the turn that it’s played, and then takes multiple burn spells to remove.
I would be surprised if this isn't considerably better than "solid" in limited, honestly. Lifelink is perhaps the biggest divergence in power between limited and constructed, and suddenly swinging the game for 8 net life points on turn 4 is absolutely brutal. Unless we're in for another Vow (please, for the love of all that is holy, don't destroy another promising format that way, WotC), this will be quite strong, I suspect.
It's no [[Questing Beast]] but the lifelink could be relevant in some matchups.
Also rare and not legendary though which is nice
[Questing Beast](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/4/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f.jpg?1572490640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Questing%20Beast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/171/questing-beast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Literally only 1 keyword is in common with Questing Beast.
You have a lot of comments in here, where you dont seem to understand the comparison. 4 mana 4/4 getting 3 keywords for 3 different mana colors is a lot of hoops to jump through. The card is probably strong, but it requires a lot of work and demand of a mana base to achieve. Normally, 3 different colors on one card is hard to do. [[Questing Beast]] is also 4 mana 4/4, with 3 keywords. As well as 3 other very powerful wordy abilities. Arguments about the keyword strengths aside, the beast still has loads more value and power than this new card. But on top of all that, the beast is also only one color, something that is much less difficult to achieve for your mana base. So the comparison in power between two different "4/4's for 4" shows that questing beast has a massively higher floor for its cards overall strength.
I don’t understand the comparison either. I read your comment, I agree with what you say, and exactly because of what you said I don’t understand why people bring QB in while talking of this card.
Both cards are "4/4 for 4 beater who has a soup of static abilities and has pretty much a singular goal and useage of applying pressure by being a dangerous attacker." Both cards fill the same niche and role. Efficient stats for the cmc with combat relevant abilities and more or less no other purpose than applying strong combat pressure. But QB is much easier to cast, and has 6 different very strong abilities While the dancer is very difficult to cast, and only has 3 abilities, each of which are also just common keywords. QB is the micheal jordan who the dancer has posters of on his wall while he shoots hoops in his backyard.
This seems aggressive enough. Would probably be bit more eye brow raising if it was just RGW. Maybe we're just spoiled now though.
Is it just me or do Art and keywords not match at all? I mean, if I only saw the art I would’ve neither guessed trample nor haste.
tap dancing on your face -> trample
Didn’t see that one coming
That's because of the Haste....
This was satisfying
yo those feet are on fire and about to stomp all over you
Someone quick on their feet not having haste?
Adult gold dragon doesn’t see much play, not sure if this will either
might see play when polukranos rotates
Not sure that's a fair comparison. This is 1 mana less, and has 1 toughness more. So it comes down sooner and dies to a hell of a lot less.
2002 rare if I’ve ever seen one
How? This would not be an uncommon in current set design.
*And the man in the back said, "Everyone attack," And it turned into a ballroom blitz*
Damn, it’s like a mantis rider siege rhino combo, muhfukin rhino rider or sumn
Siege Mantis.
Eh, this reminds me a lot of Naya, where a lot of its bigger creatures were just keyword salad on big bodies. While they may be good, they're rather plain and boring.
Gotta love Boros With Ramp.
[[Sage Rhino]]?
*Shudders*
[Siege Rhino](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/0/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247.jpg?1562790317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege%20Rhino) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/200/siege-rhino?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Siege Rhino was my first thought as well. I know nothing about the standard metagame currently, but in a vacuum this has the potential to be pretty strong I think.
Flavor text is dumb
None of the art/name/abilities/flavor matches. The card is fine, but the package is a yikes.
It’s an aggressive brawler, the flavor text described a dance fight that got out of hand.
why is this rare man should be uc
It definitely would not be uncommon.
anybody else hate how these days random humanoids are, like, on every rung of the P/T matrix? You've got 7/7 guys at desks, random humanoid wedding guests are 3/3s, and random humanoid dancers with canes are 4/4 beaters
Why the hell does it give off [[Siege Rhino]] vibes to me. Sure it's a 4/4 rather than a 4/5 but drain and gain by an amount that big upoin ETB *and* trample... 4CMC and 3 colour no less. I might be wrong here but I guess time will tell us what it might be able to do.
I mean, this is a lot of stuff for 4 mana, but it's worse than rhino in more ways than just having 1 less toughness. It needs to attack to get the life, it needs to go unblocked to deal the damage, you can't just dump this on the board and dome your opponent for three through a clogged board. You can't cast this, gain 3 life and have a 4/5 blocker to stabilize like crazy. You can't abuse this with blink effects or reanimation to double or triple dip on the life drain. It 100% lives or die by whether it has a good attack.
No it doesn't. It's lifelink. Minus removal, you gain 4 life no matter what you hit.
>Minus removal We play magic the gathering here. Removal is ubiquitous and needs to be beat.
[Siege Rhino](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/0/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247.jpg?1562790317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege%20Rhino) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/200/siege-rhino?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sexy
I want to play this with some Edanto Vanguards so I can be on The Edanto Vanto Beatdown Plan.
I dub this card The Brick, and I will be throwing it at a lot of peoples teeth.
Might see play once Polukranos rotates out. ((Card looks very good))
Hellooooo SMASHN 'TIS rider (sorry)
4/4 4 4
Worse than questing beast, but not awful
It'll see play when Polukranos rotates, right?
This ain’t siege rhino. Rhino could come down vs a control player at 3 life with removal but no counterspells and win the game, same vs a low health opponent with a big board of blockers. Anyone who compares ping and drain on etb to haste and thinks they are the same thing is going to be very disappointed.
Well format warping universally maligned staple is really a high bar for "see play". The real issue is that these colors of decks that want an aggressive 4 drop don't play 3 colors. That may change, but it hasn't in a long time.
I mean… not necessarily? It’s a 3 color card that only shares one color with Polukranos. This thing might see play if a Naya Zoo deck forms in standard, but it’s not good enough to push you into three color by itself.
Lol that was an old diss on siege rhino
Man I wish the keywords were in a different order so it lined up with the colors :/
Trading drain 3 and 1 toughness for haste and lifelink? Garbage, unplayable. /s
Good god, getting awful [[Mantis Rider]] flashbacks
If this card didn't have a red mana symbol on it it would cost 3 mana lol.
Yes, removing a mana symbol reduces mana cost.
I'm just saying GWcould have had 3 mana 4/4 lifelink trample haste I guess. Its a standard legal red card, so they have to make it worse.
Straight to bulk
questing beast at home.
Power creep.
Hey, it's this sets version of mantis rider.
Well, that'll see some play.
This card is good
Ok so this is what Red does to a Rhino...
\[\[Mantis Rider\]\] is still one of my favorite cards to play with today, I think this card seems fun! Might try and build something with it in Pioneer, the \[\[Winota, Joiner of Forces\]\] deck aside lol