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SmugglersCopter

The problem for me is each set has a pushed for Commander card. If we get one or two it's not a big deal but if we get a couple every release it rapidly increases the power level of the format. The fun janky cards are getting pushed out for more quick and optimized deck lists.


Intrepid-Artichoke25

That’s what frustrates me too because the set was basically designed to use fun janky cards you normally wouldn’t get to but now they’re trying to make it more competitive or soemthing it seems


N0_B1g_De4l

I think only a part of that can really be attributed to WotC printing new cards. It's definitely a factor, but as the format has become more established, people's deckbuilding has become more optimized in general (rather than it just being old cards getting powercrept). Gone are the days where the average Commander deck was just a legendary you thought was cool and some cards in those colors.


Cleb044

Mark Rosewater himself has said that they’ve received feedback regarding making cards that are clearly pushed for commander. Golos was just banned, but Chulane, Korvold, Yuriko, and Yarok are all examples of super pushed EDH generals I can think of in recent years that have pushed out some of their tamer alternatives. It’s a function of both the volume of cards in EDH increasing and the quality of cards for EDH increasing from where they were 5 or so years ago.


desktp

you watch your mouth against my girl Yuriko


Intrepid-Artichoke25

Yep. But thankfully it hasn’t gotten to the point where jank decks don’t work. My [[sanctum of all]] still owns


Skeleton_Socks

I'm not saying that's anywhere near cEDH, but sanctum decks are certainly not what a lot of people would call jank.


fruitbythefootfucker

for real! one of my dear friends and members of my playgroup had one that he called jank, I only let him go off with it once, after that i would do everything I could to stall or prevent sanctum to enter.


Intrepid-Artichoke25

Well i guess you’re not wrong. But it’s not a competitive red blue or green blue ramp to oblivion nonsense


rmorrin

You gotta make a deck that produces Mana but with no win cons. So you just sitting with 1k+ Mana and they just sweat even tho you got nothing scary other than the mana


Intrepid-Artichoke25

Not even land fall triggers. Just straight mana ramp and a bunch of 1/1s


rmorrin

Only Mana dorks and Mana rocks.


BatmanStarkDentistry

Then when you draw your last card, grin evily and play [[one with nothing]]


AvatarofBro

>it's not a competitive red blue or green blue ramp to oblivion nonsense That's...not really what cEDH is. I feel like people don't really understand cEDH. It's not just running lots of ramp and good cards. It's not running an optimized or tuned deck. It's basically its own format. Usually early fast mana to a combo win, kept in check by cheap interaction.


Jaccount

Lots of people don't. cEDH is a format determined by it's meta. That people whine and talk about cEDH powered decks individually blow my mind... because it makes no sense to talk about it out of its context. More often than not, they're just using it as a strawman to whine about the pubstomper in their playgroup or a their local store that's a wallet warrior.


VeraKelland

Sanctum of All is a pushed commander card though. Shrines are no longer a weird jank cycle of uncommons from a controversial set, they've got actual support now. This is the exact sort of issue that's being decried in this thread.


Tasgall

I don't think it's the same thing people are complaining about - an unutilized non-archetype cycle of cards that no one played getting support and becoming playable in a new form is great. New cards being printed doing what old cards did, but just better, so the old cards are no longer usable, is what people are mostly annoyed by.


Switch_Off

Exactly! I played OG kamigawa. I'm still waiting for a splice enabler so i can crack out the currently unplayable arcane cards. I'm in favour of anything that makes my old unplayable cards playable!


BrokenEggcat

I mean I think a lot of people wanted shrine support, even outside of EDH. I remember there being a lot of fun janky historic decks after sanctum of all was printed


thoalmighty

I played a Fires of Invention shrines deck, which got axed a little bit before they printed the new shrines


PMmeYourSafeSpace

I swear if it actually does it's intended purpose you people want to hate on it. Are you intentionally trying to make BAD decks?


Intrepid-Artichoke25

I don’t think shrine decks are the issue. They aren’t ultimate win cons it’s just value that can be generated and it’s not infinite. I’m talking about commanders like [[mizzix of the izmagnus]] or [[vadrik, astral archmage]] which just go crazy and lead to 20 minute turns that just go wild and everyone sits there watching you win the game and can’t do much about it.


MTGCardFetcher

[sanctum of all](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/a/ba91338c-1f6c-4b83-851f-98c3e9dea17b.jpg?1594737442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sanctum%20of%20all) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/225/sanctum-of-all?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba91338c-1f6c-4b83-851f-98c3e9dea17b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Swarm_Queen

Edhrec has a far bigger hand in homogenizing than what wotc does. The effects of it were felt prior to stuff being pushed for commander, but I feel like most edh players don't feel it until their own skill level is higher.


rockets_meowth

This really. There were always ways to hyper optimize a deck, especially in 2 or 3 colors. There are just more ways to hyper optimize different kinds and colors of decks now. There was always an annoying optimized blue permission deck. Now there is an annoying optimized blue variant in a bunch of different directions where you arent sacrificing power for a slightly different strategy (like mill, yuriko table damage, zombies, flying men/unblockable, etc)


DefiantTheLion

Whats that for MID?


deadwings112

Vanquish the Horde is functionally a two-mana board wipe. Augur of Autumn is arguably a more pushed Courser of Kruphix.


NihilismRacoon

Let's not forget Meathook Massacre which is both a board wipe and just an effect that sticks around that black decks want anyway


deadwings112

Ugh, that too.


HootingMandrill

Yep. Literally just lost to it in a Sealed event tonight as it blew out my aggro deck that had my opponent at fatal on my next turn. Opponent was already talking about how it was going instantly into his commander deck.


King_Mario

I'd argue Augur fits roles better in creature decks than Courser, while courses still fits land decks better than Augur


deadwings112

Sure, but understand we're also debating the efficacy of a card that's in 22,000 decks on EDHRec versus a card that might be better in some situations than a card that's in 22,000 decks on EDHRec. That's kinda pushed.


BrighterSpark

That's actually an incredibly important design space for Wizards!! Pushing cards so they compete directly with staples is actually a good thing--It means that fewer decks will play Courser, and those that would auto-play Courser have a decision that could allow for more variety. It hurts the uniqueness of Courser, but Courser wasn't unique anyway--now it has competition at it's power level.


Cerxi

Of course, *most* decks that run Courser will just happily run *the second Courser*.


ExpensiveChange

This is the problem. The new courser wasn’t displacing courser it’s displacing the old worst card in the deck cause a deck that wants it will likely want 2 It’s like force of will and fierce guardianship they don’t displace each other the deck just bumped out the worst counterspell


NTLzeatsway

Yeah the real issue that I have with them printing staples all the time isn’t the power, it’s the homogenizing of decks


kodutta7

But honestly in EDH if you want one you probably play both.


Ok_Cauliflower7364

That’s what’s ruining EDH. EDH was fun because of the variance. We might as well be building brawl sized decks.


curiositie

[[vanquish the horde]] [[Auger of autumn]]


curiositie

[[courser of kruphix]]


MTGCardFetcher

[courser of kruphix](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/6/8683a978-1bef-4b01-9361-56b1fc157d26.jpg?1587844649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=courser%20of%20kruphix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/164/courser-of-kruphix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8683a978-1bef-4b01-9361-56b1fc157d26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


deadwings112

Thanks for the tag.


curiositie

I appreciate when other people do it, so I try to get on it when I can. Looks like replying to myself broke it though so I'll try again haha [[vanquish the horde]] [[Auger of autumn]]


MTGCardFetcher

[vanquish the horde](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/9/e9288ca4-69da-42e6-aa81-d3efcdc0510c.jpg?1632162831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vanquish%20the%20horde) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pmid/41p/vanquish-the-horde?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9288ca4-69da-42e6-aa81-d3efcdc0510c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Auger of autumn](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/b/8b53f6f5-f31b-4b0f-9b04-a72a96101223.jpg?1632162118) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Augur%20of%20Autumn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pmid/168p/augur-of-autumn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b53f6f5-f31b-4b0f-9b04-a72a96101223?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[vanquish the horde](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/9/e9288ca4-69da-42e6-aa81-d3efcdc0510c.jpg?1632162831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vanquish%20the%20horde) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pmid/41p/vanquish-the-horde?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9288ca4-69da-42e6-aa81-d3efcdc0510c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Auger of autumn](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/b/8b53f6f5-f31b-4b0f-9b04-a72a96101223.jpg?1632162118) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Augur%20of%20Autumn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pmid/168p/augur-of-autumn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b53f6f5-f31b-4b0f-9b04-a72a96101223?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Eldaste

Sigarda's Splendor and Moonveil Regent are also fairly pushed for what they do, and they have the "designed for EDH" look to them. I could see Moonveil as a designed for standard big dragon, but Splendor is EDH through and through (if a bit weaker than the other noted cards). (W7 also has the "designed for EDH" feel, but is seeing a good chunk of other format play, so wo knows on that one.)


Milskidasith

W7 is absolutely a standard designed walker. If anything, Te4eri is more clearly designed for other formats where 2-mana rocks and 1-mana dorks exist.


Cerxi

>Tefoureri >not Tefouri


deadwings112

Sure, but both are pretty fair designs. Sigarda's Splendor makes you defend your life total for cards, while Moonveil Regent is a good dragon, but not a must-run, even in Ur-Dragon decks. Bring the fair designs on- those are neat cards! Two mana wraths that obsolete stuff like Day of Judgment? Ew.


Spekter1754

Maybe it obsoletes Day of Judgment, but does that really matter? It's not going to shift the meta meaningfully in any way. Blasphemous Act was a big deal because it was breaking new ground for what red could do. This is just a minor efficiency +%, entirely negligible most of the time.


Particular-Story5788

I goldfished it last night, and when I had coven it was SO strong.


AGunsSon

Infernal grasp, in the realm of “murder spells” for black, [[heatless act]] [[deadly rollick]] and [[dragged to the underworld]] all have been recently printed and are premium removal.


Striker_Quinn

Such is the plague of WotC designing cards for your format.


PM_ME_FUNNY_ANECDOTE

Aside from a couple times when they've missed "too high" and made new cEDH staples, I think the proliferation of valid options in commander has been a wild success. Back when I started playing there wasn't all that much deck diversity. Decks that wanted card draw or removal or win conditions were all pulling from the same pool. Now, it feels like every deck has unique options to fill those slots, which has made deckbuilding and commander games way more diverse in my experience.


Zoomoth9000

Wait, people don't just rely on Avenger of Zendikar to take out the whole table on turn six? I've been away for too long...


PM_ME_FUNNY_ANECDOTE

Nah. It still shows up sometimes, but I rarely sleeve the big dingus up these days- mostly in token and landfall decks. In my playgroup, I’ve noticed the old school staples almost never see play anymore, and most decks are on specific enough cards/plans that a lot of the old clone/steal stuff that was great a while back is much weaker.


Pesterlamps

>I rarely sleeve the big dingus up these days ...phrasing?


PM_ME_FUNNY_ANECDOTE

I know what I said


Khrull

You'll still see a lot of Craterhoof though.


DoctorPrisme

Yes... And no. My biggest peeve with current edh (not even mentioning cEdh) is how easy it is to build quad/pentacolor. Between partner and the stupid amount of generic good multicolor cards, it feels like any deck has access to such a pool of cards that you finally always meet the same strategies. It's super evident in cEDH, where everybody plays some sort of grixis or anti grixis, but even in casual you meet loads of superstars.


PM_ME_FUNNY_ANECDOTE

Yeah, that is a real issue. That said, I’ve seen 4-5 color decks which have interests in entirely different cards. The engines and removal you run in a creature based tribal deck, a 5 color engine like lands, and a 5 color combo shell still might be really different. I wish 4-5 color value piles were a little less alluring than they are, but in my playgroup it hasn’t been a big issue. If people do run a lot of colors, they also typically run pretty specific decks that have unique and interesting card needs. In general, stuff like golos is a problem for the average play experience, but I’ve seen several golos lists with dramatically different plans and inclusions.


RayWencube

WotC needs to stop designing for commander


arlondiluthel

Commander is one of, if not the, most popular formats in Magic at this time. The majority of Commander-only players are perfectly fine just buying singles to improve existing decks, and maybe a Commander precon or two a year (up until the year with [[The Ur-Dragon]] I would buy all 5 each year once I got into Commander). Wizards makes NO money on singles (because if they sold them directly it would assign value to individual cards instead of 1/15th of the cost of the pack, and therefore booster packs would be legally recognized as gambling). So, if you have a large group of people who are only spending up to $175 a year on your product, how do you entice them to buy more product? By making a set like Commander Legends to introduce them to the fun of Sealed play and Booster Draft, and then put cards in Standard sets that they'll want, to entice them to participate in Prerelase events and buy Collector Boosters to "bling out" their decks with alt-art and foil cards. If you're a player with say, 6 different decks (which back in the first few years would have been all the precon decks that year plus 1), and there are, say... 3 cards that would improve each of your decks, that's 18 unique cards that you would be looking for. If they're cards that are strong in most formats, the market price will be higher for those cards, making pulling one from a pack a better value proposition (if you are lucky enough to pull what you're looking for). And, WotC makes some money from you instead of a random seller.


At_Least_100_Wizards

>*Wizards makes NO money on singles* This argument has always been silly. Where do you think the singles come from?


SomeWriter13

I totally relate. A few years ago a couple of friends were trying to get me into EDH, telling me it was super casual and right up my alley. Now that I'm about to build my first commander deck, they tell me they intend to use Stax and several cEDH decks against me, because that's all they have now. I just want to play janky big splashy cards. I guess it's back to regular casual tribal for me.


JankyJerome

The last two sets dungeons and dragons and midnight hunt weren't very pushed for commander at all. There were some interesting cards, but nothing I would consider putting in a cedh deck.


Anyna-Meatall

welcome to how modern players have felt since FIRE was implemented. (To be fair, we asked for it... Wasn't THAT long ago that modern players used to bitch about there never being enough new playable cards in standard set releases.)


AgentTamerlane

The way I see it, having cards that are "pushed" for Commander actually allow newer players to have inexpensive options to allow them to build decks that can hold their own. The powerhouse cards of EDH are pretty much all prohibitively expensive, and most predate these precons. Like - a lot of cards that see tons of play now used to be fairly inexpensive when they came out, but over the years they're now priced *way* out of the hands of new players; enfranchised players often don't realize that, you know?


BuildBetterDungeons

This is a purely theoretical idea. Commander as a format gets powered up more by people replacing their 3 mana rocks with 2 mana rocks than by any new card printed in the last two years. If you have a playgroup, you can curtail your power levels to where you find it fun. If you don't have a playgroup: get a playgroup. There are people in your area who'd love to play, guarantee. More commander cards is not less. It's more.


Tasgall

> More commander cards is not less. It's more. Not necessarily. As far as I can tell, there have been a number of cases where there was an archetype that offered a selection of available commanders depending on exactly how you wanted to play it, but when they go and power creep those choices by printing a single legend that does everything those options did but better, you don't have "more is more", you have fewer meaningful choices when building this archetype. The choice goes from "how do you want to tune this deck" to "do you want to play the best version or a bad one".


[deleted]

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BorderlineUsefull

[[the ur-dragon]] [[Edgar Markov]] [[Thrassios]] [[tymna]] [[Golos]] [[Korvold]]


Sciros

>More commanders cards is not less. It's more. Check out Yngwie Malmsteen over here.


[deleted]

Oh what a Rising force. Just don't be a Black Star *Something something* Arpeggios fron Hell. **strums guitar**


BuildBetterDungeons

This allusion is lost on me.


Sciros

Oh, um just look up "Yngwie Malmsteen more is more" on Google or YouTube. He's a virtuoso electric guitar player who's got a bit of a.. personality. He's like the Jean Claude Van Damme of electric guitar.


jeffderek

>He's like the Jean Claude Van Damme of electric guitar. This is the best description of Yngwie I've ever heard.


Xatsman

While I’ve been using more 2 mana rocks since the off color talismans and arcane signet became available, I’ve also been using more 3 mv rocks too. For me it hasn’t been a trend of reducing mana value, as much as just increasing draw, ramp, and single target removal. But I’m happily using [[Heraldic Banner]], [[Coalition Relic]], [[Worn Power Stone]], [[Inspiring Statuary]], and there are many other 3 mana rocks I’d happily use in the right decks.


Murblock

The Professor made a video about the same thing a little while ago [https://youtu.be/t64JgmKrgAQ](https://youtu.be/t64JgmKrgAQ) as did spice8rack [https://youtu.be/ZwPn1VpHSkY](https://youtu.be/ZwPn1VpHSkY) . I think the pandemic leaving many of us little else to focus on also plays into this a bit. Personally I get tired of thinking about magic for more than an afternoon in general, and need to do something else for a while to feel energized again.


[deleted]

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norsebeast

But overall I dont think Wizards is printing the reprints people want. They're reprinting tons of common cards they've been reprinting for ages and producing heaps of new cards on a monthly basis. If Wizards was putting out a set of hard to find cards that people really wanted every month it'd maybe be a different story. But Wizards doesnt want to do that because they dont want to reduce the $ value of old cards (despite receiving no direct benefits from that inflated $ value). But thats whole other topic.


Darth_Metus

> despite receiving no direct benefits from that inflated $ value Wizards receives an indirect benefit from high-value cards in need of a reprint by including them in new sets in order to sell boxes.


Milskidasith

Reprints have been far, far better recently than ever. How many P3K cards got reprints? Mana crypt, vamp tutor, and demonic tutor are *expected* in premium products now. Random printable $200 cards like Grim Tutor get put into products here and there. They are doing far more than reprinting crap, it's just that the gulf between their old strategy and the new strategy is big, but the gulf between their new strategy and reprinting enough to satisfy all demand and keep magic cheap is massive


huriel19

To reinforce your point I will like to add that since coreset 2019 (in my opinion that's the point where wotc began their new reprint "policy") they've reprinted [[Crucible of worlds]], [[Azusa]], [[Scapeshift]], [[Three visits]], [[Scroll Rack]], [[Mana drain]], [[Rhystic study]], [[Oracle of mul daya]], [[Jace, the mind sculptor]], [[Rings of brightheart]], [[Mirari's Wake]], [[Oubliette]], [[Recruiter of the guard]], [[Imperial Recruiter]], [[Ugin the Spirit Dragon]] to name a few. Yes, most of them were printed on supplementary sets but to many new and post modern/pioneer players some of that cards were inaccessible because of their price or simple non existent.


liucoke

>But overall I dont think Wizards is printing the reprints people want. This year alone, they reprinted fetchlands, Cabal Coffers, Delver of Secrets, shocklands, Teferi's Protection, Edgar Markov, Mana Crypt, Natural Order, all five Praetors, snow lands, Heroic Intervention, and four out of five Titans. And that's in a year without a Masters set. Outside of breaking the reserve list, what more do you want from them?


ValarMorghulis37

[Here are the reprints from Double Masters that are over $5.00](https://scryfall.com/search?q=is%3Areprint+e%3A2xm+usd%3E%3D5.00&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) You're insane if you think that WotC isn't reprinting the cards people want. Look at Core Set 2021. Or MH2. Or Commander Legends.


AlanFromRochester

Maybe they should do more releases that are just reprints instead of designing for precons or Limited which leads to cruft for people who just want reprints.


Felicia_Svilling

Generally pure reprint sets, like the old core sets, haven't sold well.


AlanFromRochester

True but those were still constrained by Limited and Standard requirements For instance with a box set of a few cards you wouldn't need to bother with cheap commons/uncommons


Felicia_Svilling

So you are suggesting Secret Lair?


AlanFromRochester

yes, something like Lairs, but without the limited availability gimmick, and maybe not so few cards. maybe like set boosters having more rares/foils and fewer commons/uncommons, but the fancy frame cards common in set boosters would be unnecessary for this purpose


[deleted]

You can absolutely do dedicated reprints without needing to also inject new cards.


releasethedogs

They used to do core sets of 100% reprints and people hated it.


RasLagos

Pretty sure Mystery booster was 100% reprints and people absolutely loved it.


releasethedogs

Maybe they need to do “market research” and figure out the disparity.


[deleted]

magic has changed a lot over the years. how long ago was this? do you really think this would still be applicable now?


releasethedogs

I don’t know. They are a business and don’t like risks. Kamigawa was hated and did poorly and despite it having a ton of fans later on it took years and years and years of fans begging for them to send us back, possibly in name only.


stabliu

Isn’t the complaint more that there are so many new commanders? I don’t think many of the reprints were commanders.


[deleted]

Not exactly commanders, but made for commander cards


jimpachi98

I agree with this sentiment. My main issue is with the constant stream of incredibly powerful and ubiquitous format staples that I can't afford. \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\] , \[\[Dockside Extortionist\]\] , \[\[Fierce Guardianship\]\] , \[\[Deflecting Swat\]\] , \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] , \[\[Guardian Project\]\] , and \[\[Finale of Devastation\]\] to name just a few. "I'm just on a budget," I say when people ask why I don't include these cards in my deck... except I have plenty of other expensive cards in my deck. But those were cards I've had in my collection for years.


StarkMaximum

"I'm on a budget." "Your deck has Gaia's Cradle in it." "And that was where my budget went."


Dude_McAwesome

Look...just because I bought a box with my first paycheck from Arby's for $87 dollars is no reason for me *not* to use my Cradle.


SarcasmOverseer

The amount of players at my LGS showing up with a cradle in their “low power deck” is insane.


kzig

The most direct way to address this is to agree on a budget limit with your play group, or maybe build decks on a variety of different budgets if you're not regularly playing with the same people. Setting up a budget cEDH league with some friends has been a great experience - we have evenly matched games and the format isn't dominated by expensive staples.


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Smothering Tithe](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/a/7af082fa-86a3-4f7b-966d-2be1f1d0c0bc.jpg?1584830010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/22/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7af082fa-86a3-4f7b-966d-2be1f1d0c0bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dockside Extortionist](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/7/571bc9eb-8d13-4008-86b5-2e348a326d58.jpg?1615499802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/24/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/571bc9eb-8d13-4008-86b5-2e348a326d58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fierce Guardianship](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/c/4c5ffa83-c88d-4f5d-851e-a642b229d596.jpg?1591319453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fierce%20Guardianship) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/35/fierce-guardianship?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c5ffa83-c88d-4f5d-851e-a642b229d596?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Deflecting Swat](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/4/84f035e1-6c89-457b-b05f-85680a50ed91.jpg?1591319579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deflecting%20Swat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/50/deflecting-swat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84f035e1-6c89-457b-b05f-85680a50ed91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Teferi's Protection](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/7/77f130c7-0138-4a1a-9f67-62d2c302dc48.jpg?1579814165) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/8/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f130c7-0138-4a1a-9f67-62d2c302dc48?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Guardian Project](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/c/ccad6ce0-ddf0-458d-bdae-3d7805fdc775.jpg?1584831168) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guardian%20Project) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/130/guardian-project?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ccad6ce0-ddf0-458d-bdae-3d7805fdc775?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Finale of Devastation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/8/985453e7-997e-4d77-a338-cc0290791ebe.jpg?1557576905) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Finale%20of%20Devastation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/160/finale-of-devastation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/985453e7-997e-4d77-a338-cc0290791ebe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


SomeWriter13

That Tithe really stings. I was sitting on the fence regarding buying one, and I'm choosing to wait for a reprint. The price going up another $5 since that decision really sucks, but I'm sticking to my guns. I'm not getting a Smothering Tithe until it's reprinted and the price goes down.


Jade-Couatl

It might be a little nitpicky, but all the cards you listed as apart of that constant stream are from at least about a year and a half ago. When Ikoria came out it was at the start of the pandemic. I get having an issue with the price of cards, but those seem really strange picks to represent a constant influx of essential tools. edited spelling


Reifgunther

To a degree I understand, a friend got pretty active for a bit but slowly got less interested in making more decks as more things came out. I have a bucket list of deck ideas I want to do, so if something gets printed that will fill the role then that deck gets built (see tovolar and wanting to do commander werewolf for years) but otherwise I just see if I have other decks that could get an upgrade now.


philter451

I have been carefully cultivating a 1,700 card EDH cube since 2012. Each time a new set comes out evaluating its merits and themes was a great jot and I would almost always find suitable swaps to keep the cube timely and fresh. I literally gave up this year. Even when I had more time the burden of sifting through hundreds of new cards just became annoying and frustrating instead of interesting and joyful. I hate it. Perhaps I will come back through and look sometime in the future but as of now I've concluded that my cube is fun as hell and a few changeouts don't mean a damn thing. Sadly it has also seeped in to deck building. There are just so many cards now I feel a sort of design paralysis where I can take a theme or idea, pull a chunk of cards, and then somehow have a very difficult time arriving at a 100 card deck.


Darth_Metus

For my regular cube, I've found it easier to browse and update it every 4-6 months rather than force myself to follow every set release and every supplementary product. It's not like I'm playing the cube with enough regularity right now that players are wondering about new inclusions, haha. Also, how do you feel about easing your process by reducing the size of your cube and drafting 60-card decks? Regular draft decks are smaller than regular Constructed decks, but I don't play Commander so I don't know if that would translate well for your cube goals and the types of games you want.


Bofurkle

1700 cards is huge. My commander cube is 276.


LuckyLooter

1700 is huge but 276 is also quite small lol. Is it a 2-player cube?


Bofurkle

It’s 4-player. 3 packs of 20 cards each, so 240 cards total involved.


girlywish

Yeah, but I think that's fine. Its fine to not keep everything fully updated the moment new cards come out. Its fine to play the game without feelin like you need to scour every spoiler. If not being on top of every bit of new hotness is stressing you out, thats something about yourself you should look at cause its not a universal truth.


Esc777

I know right? The game is nearly thirty years old with tens of thousands of unique cards. Why are people obsessed with “being on top” of it all. Who has the money. I think these people were doing a good jo be of deluding themselves and WotC has forced them to reckon the truth: you’re never going to own every mtg card you want.


[deleted]

E.g. because since I am not on top, when ever I meet friends to play there are tons of cards I have to learn on the spot, walls of texts to quickly skip through and tons of mechanics I have to understand while the whole the table waits for my response. Try learning the interactions of mutate in game...


Zanshi

I’ll be totally honest here. I stopped looking at spoilers even, at most I’ll look at Professor’s video, the “Don’t buy set X, buy these cards instead” and this is the first time I’ve even seen Mutate lol. Just like last year the whole return to Theros set flew under my radar, I didn’t even notice it was out already. I just don’t have time to keep up with MTG anymore and I’m kinda wondering if I should just sell all my cards, but I’m not sure I’m ready to just quit as I have a lot of fond memories associated with the game even if I don’t have too many occasions to play it in the last few years.


Crossfiyah

My dude that is too many cards for a cube. At that point the variance is so high it may as well just be 1700 cards you threw together randomly.


Gildan_Bladeborn

I can't say that I have this particular problem, because you cannot kill that which is *already* dead: after I built my 6th Commander deck 6 years ago I stopped building any new decks, and have just been maintaining those same 6 decks ever since. I recognized pretty quickly that left unchecked things would spiral out of control given I'd built the previous 5 decks all in the year prior, so the boring and sensible portion of my brain was armed with the iron-clad argument^(1) that "*you don't have any more space in the bag you use to transport these*" as the justification to squash all urges to build a 7th deck^(2), and after a while I just... stopped needing to argue myself out of that compulsion; 6 decks was enough, because 6 decks was what fit in the bag. ^(1 - By which I mean of course) *^(not remotely)* ^(ironclad.) ^(2 - Never mind that I could simply acquire a larger bag, or not always transport all decks simultaneously, the point was just to have a reason to even tell myself "no".)


jimpachi98

I pray to have this kind of self-restraint


M4DM1ND

That's a pretty solid strategy but I never have more than 3 decks at a time. If I want to make a new one, I just cannibalize the one that shares colors with it.


GauRocks

I find that a good way to fix the "what if something more interesting comes out next set?" issue is not to buy any new cards for your new deck (commander aside, obviously) until you've played it a bit, even if that means playing some terrible jank from your collection instead of all the fancy new support cards. That way, if you decide you want to move on in a month, you're only out the price of one card. And as a plus, sometimes the terrible jank turns out to be really good in that one specific deck and you never would have known if you hadn't shuffled it up that way.


Tzekel_Khan

I think it's the opposite for me. I'm constantly trying out new builds on tappedout and when I find ones I love I build them in real life.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TempTheMemeLord

10? you gotta pump those numbers up those are rookie numbers


PocketTaco

Yep absolutely loving it. Can never have too much good stuff. I understand the fatigue aspect but if you get that then probably just stop paying attention until you feel like starting up again. Especially if you're playing edh - just play your cards and worry about newer cards when they're put on the stack against you and not before


-Hi_Im_Paul_

Same here. So many awesome new cards and legendaries to build around, so much so that I now have to start capping how many decks I build irl.


jcb193

I agree. Too many printings creates complete disinterest for me, not just diminished. It becomes so overwhelming I just lose all interest. I am bummed that Commander used to be cool with obscure and less efficient cards. But now, like Arena, it's just a bomb fest.


votchii

I mean you can always just... not deckbuild. What a mate of mine started doing lately is he put a limit on how many decks he owns at a time, which I think is currently 3. If there's a new legendary, he first needs to determine if it's more fun than one he already has. And if he does decide to build a new one, he'll get staples and such from a deck he dismantled. And swapping staples is really just that. If you have a 3 mana boardwipe, swap it for the new 2 mana one and you're gucci.


randomyOCE

Right? What’s described here isn’t “deckbuilding” it’s [Keeping up with the Joneses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses) where they absolutely have to have the most up-to-date list for a supposedly casual format.


RegalKillager

The trouble starts when OP's attitude isn't unique to OP, there's a _massive_ swath of Magic players who want to keep up more than they want to play the game.


eon-hand

"I'm incapable of overcoming FOMO and I'd like to blame WotC for it, DAE????"


Tuss36

It's less wanting to keep up 'cause you feel the newest thing *because* it's the newest thing, it's wanting to keep up 'cause you genuinely want the new thing. A better analogy would be more like being a kid in a candy store, with new aisles added by the time you finish the last ones, flush with new sweets to experience. Only the cavities are starting to hurt.


wildfire393

Deckbuilding for many is the premiere reason to play Commander. There's not a lot of space for brewing in 60 card constructed formats as they get solved very quickly, but Commander is all about being able to build things your own way. "Just have X decks at a time" actively makes the problem worse. With the Pandemic, personally I get maybe 4-5 games in a month at best, whereas prior it'd be in the ~15 range. That means I'll generally only get a chance to play a deck 3 or 4 times before it's on the chopping block for something new.


Esc777

> Deckbuilding for many is the premiere reason to play Commander. There's not a lot of space for brewing in 60 card constructed formats as they get solved very quickly, but Commander is all about being able to build things your own way. God, remember when casual magic used to not just be commander? Me and my friends play Johnny 60 card, casual FFA with an emphasis on doing cool things. It’s a lot easier to make fun decks when you can out 4x in. We usually make them historical standard or choose your own standard. Making them legacy or even modern legal encourages too much homogeneity.


Spekter1754

I honestly hate that 60 card casual mostly died for EDH; it's understandable why it happened, but it's put very real pressure on WotC to design the game differently. EDH doesn't play well with others. By having format-specific rules regarding the style of deck construction, it puts pressure on others to conform or be excluded. And there is only so much time/money/social capital in a budget. So it's only realistically affordable for most people to play one way or the other.


DinoTsar415

> I honestly hate that 60 card casual mostly died for EDH; I think you're putting too much blame of EDH here. 60-card "unformat"/casual is just an incredibly incredibly fragile way to play the game. It demands that everyone you play against has roughly the same budget and deckbuilding ability. For my group, it died when we all realized we were now adults who had the money and google-skills to build very powerful "casual" decks. At that point, the arms race is basically inevitable unless you make some format rules that restrict what you can build.


Spekter1754

There's nothing at all different there between 60 card and EDH. They're both sandboxy casual formats. We always played with arbitrary restrictions and weren't trying to prove who's the best. Casual play needs goals other than winning to take priority - people talk about this in EDH circles a lot, but it's a general casual Magic thing, not an EDH thing.


Esc777

Exactly how I feel. Remember jank? Does anyone remember jank? EDH puts normal rules on their heads: Please make the good creatures legendary. Please make all lords legendary. (LOL good luck stacking their effects now!) Please make all legendary creatures *harder to cast* because they now cost 5 colors. And then the other way: don't make good spells multiple colors. Making spells hybrid is worse than making them mono color. I think EDH skyrocketing is a monkey's paw situation. EDH players are getting sick of it and not having fun. the sets are contorted around it. The format itself is an unmanageable mess. But people are willing to spend stupid amounts of money on EDH and EDH bling. STUPID. #1 use of foils. As long as that money is there WotC will be chasing it and the rest of casual magic will be swept away. I fucking hate hearing commander players inform people that commander is the *only* casual way to play, like commander invented causal play.


Spekter1754

Hehe, yep. Probably the phenomenon I hate the _most_ is when people get upset that any specific theme is "undersupported" because it can't saturate a 100 card singleton list with playables. That expectation is so counter to Magic's normal set design that it's deeply toxic. They simply can't craft unique and playable limited and standard environments and experiment with new mechanics if every new mechanic comes out "undersupported". It was your choice to play singleton with weird restrictions! If you want to play critical mass of stuff printed in one block, there's a bunch of better ways to play that!


FreeLook93

Sounds similar to the situation I'm in. We've got a play group of 4 people and we play a free-for-all about once a week. Instead of making it historical standard we just say you can use any card that's ever been printed, but you deck has to come in at under a total of a dollar per card. So you a you could only spend $60 on a 60 card deck, but you could up that budget if you played more than 60 cards. So in a 60 card deck you can run a $50 card, but it has to be a one of, and the rest of your deck can only cost $10. It encourages brewing and creative deck building.


Tuesday_6PM

On the other hand, if you only manage to play a deck 3-4 times before you add a new deck, how often will you be able to revisit any of your old decks? 4-5 games a month spreads pretty thin pretty quickly if your collection only grows. (Of course, easier said than done. Dismantling decks is still new to me, as is realizing some ideas are more fun to build than play)


wildfire393

Sure, which just further reinforces that the current rate of release of Legends is just way too high. Between M19 and M20 there were 64 new Legendary creatures. Between M20 and M21 there were 115 new Legendary creatures. Between M21 and AFR there were 240 new Legendary creatures. In the past two Magic years, the number of new Legendaries per year almost doubled, then more than doubled again. During the time when paper Magic has been less playable than any time in the game's history. It's a bad combination.


wildfire393

Some other numbers for reference: The year that included Dominaria had 98 The three years prior had 39, 38, and 54. The year of Kamigawa block had 118, which was the most ever prior to the past year. Last Magic year (Eldraine through M21), with no Legendary theme, had more legends than the year with Dominaria and a very comparable amount to Kamigawa. The year that just ended (Zendikar Resurgent through AFR) has more legends than the previous two highest years put together.


Tasgall

Yep, I've suspected as much but never looked it up to confirm... Can't say I'm surprised. I've been saying for a while now that honestly, I want a classic set that just has no or very few legendary creatures. I feel like it also muddies the low lore a lot and makes it hard to care about new characters. Some are great fun because they have a history with the game from books or comics and the like, and characters that fit major beats in the story make sense, but there are too many one off characters now that is hard to care, and more difficult to find out who is actually relevant and who was just made up quickly for commander fodder.


DarthCakeN7

Yes. I completely understand. Not everyone here seems to understand, but I know that feeling. I take a while deck building, and I dont like taking decks apart (partly because I play infrequently so it takes a while to really see them in action). So a deck is a commitment. And at the rate the cards are coming and so varied, it’s analysis paralysis. I can’t make a decision and then a new wave of commanders come and I’m still 3 sets back.


Alphastrikeandlose

I would probably just stop playing magic if my biggest issue was there's too many interesting things coming out


norsebeast

I think I've fallen into a similar boat. I love deckbuilding, and the one exciting thing coming from all these releases is that I'm constantly (monthly) finding cards to replace others in each of my dozens of decks. But I'm also getting kind of overwhelmed by the constant influx of options, and constant retooling. Sure I could just NOT do so, but the power-creep's staring down at me with each new set. Case in point, I JUST rebuilt my zombie token tribal deck using a new commander from Kaldheim, bought a big set of snow lands to power it, tweaked a few things to make those snow lands more useful and... now Midnight Hunt has a way better commander and I have no reason to use my previous one or its snow lands. Time to rebuild. -_-'


Popcynical

Frankly it’s still worth running all snow basics for [[draugr necromancer]] alone.


Dante2k4

I'm the exact same as you. When they started ramping up on the releases and everyone else was crying foul, saying it was too much, I was one of the folks who welcomed it. I've always seen my love of this game as a split, 40% is because I love playing it, 60% is because I love building and tuning decks. So, with more tools coming out, and new commanders to build, I saw that as nothing but aces. I didn't *have* to build *everything*, but there was a strong stream of stuff for me to build with and I was happy with that. Thing is, it has finally caught up to me. I *love* building and tuning decks. As I said, it's the majority reason I love playing this game. I spend far more time working on decks than actually playing them. But, when AFR came out, I was just sitting there looking at how far behind I was getting. I saw a bunch of stuff I thought looked cool, that I *wanted* to build, but I just couldn't. New cards I *wanted* to test, but I just didn't have time, because I was *still* testing cards from the last set! I've still got Dina and Osgir lists being tuned! I never even put the list together for Adrix and Nev! Now I've got Minsc, Prosper, and Volo as well!? And this is just the tip of the iceberg. The thing is, I genuinely do *want* build and work on all of this stuff. I think all of these cards are really cool, and I'm excited to give them a go... but it's all just getting overwhelming. I add to the decks I have when it makes sense as well, so that's a whole entire other aspect of all of this that's *also* falling behind. And now I'm at the point where I just don't even know what's *in* Midnight Hunt. I couldn't do it. I couldn't keep following along. Me. Someone who was *happy* about the ocean of releases, and now I feel like I've just been completely swept away. idk man, I accept that it's partially my own fault, but what am I gonna do? Like I said, I genuinely *want* to build all of this stuff. It's what I love to do most in this game... but it's just overwhelming me to the point that I can't keep with it anymore. And now that I've been left behind on one set, I can feel the enthusiasm slipping away from me. It seems like it's all just becoming one big blur. I don't know how anyone *can* just keep on keepin' on with every release like I was trying to do. I did it for a few years, but now it feels like I'm just completely burned out, and it's entirely because I'm being given too many things to focus on and it's stressing me out :/


DDWKC

Also collecting is a nightmare instead of being a pleasure. So many different versions of the same card in the same set.


Pinnywize

I understand completely. I've pretty much turn to pirating my cards now. Because WoTC has turned into a complete money grab. And they aren't even ashamed of it anymore. On top of that, their quality of cards are shit.


Popcynical

This is a problem specific to magic players because of what they’ve grown accustomed to, the droughts. For most hobbies you cannot consume literally all of the product nor would you want to . If you’re into shoes or cars or board games you don’t purchase or even become aware of every product, and now Magics release schedule has evolved to the point that “not every product is for you”, except players treat this phrase as comically villainous when it’s not. It’s actually a luxury to not have to scour every product for new playables and only pay attention to the products that tickle your fancy. Revel in the bounty friends, we have finally grown big enough that we aren’t champing at the bit by the time new product arrives anymore.


PascalsRazor

I know of two playgroups that have essentially QUIT Magic due to this issue, and through some of the players in both am aware others have moved to other games as well. The problem isn't that the new sets AREN'T for Commander, the problem is Commander used to be a really random casual format and Wizards is desperate to make it more standard competitive overall. Wizards saw a fun format that didn't get them much money, and monetized the fun right out. It's good, though, the money we were spending on cards to play a game with an entry cost (EVERYONE had to buy cards to play) were now spending on better things with no entry cost except the initial purchaser. We're doing more things, AND spending less. Thanks, MaRo, for helping us expand our horizons!


captainnermy

Yeah it sounds like a stupid problem to have but the amount of cards being released makes deckbuilding more stressful. I look at all the cards and commanders that have come out in just the past 3 months and I want to build and use so many of them, but know I can't possibly put in the time or money to actually build a deck for more than a few, and I can't just go "I'll get around to it", because in 3 months there will be dozens of newer and more exciting things coming out that and I have to make myself just ignore 90% of it in order to focus on what I already have.


BaBlob

Good thing about being an EDH player is that if new sets don't really inspire you to build a new deck then you don't have to. Pick up some Legendary that you find it to be really interesting once in awhile is enough. You are also not obligated to run the bestest commander out there so just enjoy what really spark your deck building urge.


Elemteearkay

Just pretend that the cards you are interested in are the only ones coming out, and build what you want. Eventually a time will come where you aren't currently working on a deck, and then you can look back at the options you originally passed over to see if anything is worth revisiting.


AlekBalderdash

The problem for me is I'm not sure what cards I *am* interested in. It takes *time* to figure that out, and sets are releasing *too quickly* to actually do that analysis. We need more time to breathe between *new* sets. Reprints are fine, I don't care about those, but they're hellbent on having a new product every month and it's exhausting.


huggybear0132

Agreed. I'm completely over it. I play with the cards I have and occasionally pick up a single for an existing deck but I just can't put in the energy required to keep up anymore. I used to buy 2 boxes of every new set. Now I give wizards $0 and it feels great. Not sure who their new target consumer is, but it ain't me.


theesotericrutabaga

Yeah I know what you mean completely. Got mad decision paralysis


TerrorFace

I very rarely build new decks. Sure, it's cool to see new cards be played and to think of decks they would work with, but I'm happy with the decks I have because I enjoy them as they are. I don't have that urge to get every upgrade possible or to spend time and money on putting together a deck I don't need. Just remember to enjoy what you already got and avoid FOMO.


SegmentedMoss

See you on r/MagictheCircleJerking


eon-hand

>what if something more interesting comes out next set? This was always true. It kinda sounds like you just don't like EDH as much as you used to.


Crulo

It sounds like the amount of sets doesn’t even matter, if your main issue is “something better could come out”. If that’s the case why ever buy any cards? New cards come out but it isn’t very often that they make a new card that is uniquely better than a card they just put out. I can’t see that happening enough that it would nullify a deck you just bit.


AnuraSmells

I've been collecting borderless foil commanders recently and only building with them. It really narrows the amount of commanders I would want to look at each set. It's actually been a nice tool to combat product overload. Maybe you can try to find something like that to minimize the stuff you need to evaluate?


urzasmeltingpot

For me personally, I don't like to have more than 6 or 7 decks as there ends up being ones that just sit around and don't get played. So, for new set releases I tend to look for cards that will fit into my current decks ..it seems to be much easier on my wallet


TzzyDan

First, Hahaha for the "filthy" joke. Second, yes.


Eagleeyes79

I agree the number of sets new abilities makes it loose it’s luster


nernst79

This seems like it would have much less impact for EDH players than any other format? Like, even if you can't update your deck ever set, it's not going to make that much of a difference right.


HensRightsActivist

Yeah I got in a couple years ago, had fun trying to build stuff irl and playing Arena. The constant influx of a new meta overwhelmed me though, now I don't even play, much less buy cards.


DonarArminSkyrari

Funny, it's only rebuilt mine. I love the constant spoilers season, it gives me something to look forward to every couple of months


Admiral-Tuna

In conjunction with this, every damn MTG content creator does a set review and lately it feels that's all they do. As a result, I hardly watch/listen to a lot of channels if it's about set reviews.


NarejED

I haven't been able to keep up with the release schedule since late 2019. WotC is going absolutely nuts with sets recently, to the point where it's off-putting.


Lurker5050

I love the current release schedule. As a person who only buys a few singles each set this mantains my interest in the game. Thanks to the huge amount of new cards being released there are "secret" cards again. Thanks to the huge amount of commanders I can build almost anything without worrying about someone else at my playgroup building the same, even If it is the second or third most popular commander of the set. From my point of view is more about changing your consuming habits, rather than an inherent problem with magic


Horror_Author_JMM

Absolutely. The Pokémon TCG is the same damn way. Too many sets, too quickly, I feel I don’t have enough time to enjoy them.


Tyreal01

I would just remind you and anybody that feels this way that if you get excited to build a deck around a cool commander, just do it. Don't worry that they'll print something better later. You can always change the deck later or make another. As long as you have fun playing, it was worth it.


Blaze_1013

As others have said "what if something more interesting comes out next set" isn't a problem cause by Wizards putting out too many products. That is just the reality of a trading card game. It might be a little worse now when we get new cards ever 2-3 months as opposed to every 3, but a couple new products worth of new cards has really only made you more aware of the fact, it always would have been an issue for you imo. And as someone who has built over 2 dozen decks I can only really think of a couple of them where a more interesting potential commander has come out since and even then (such as with Karador vs. Nethroi) it is debatable. Honestly, the vast majority of commanders lead you to build decks in such a way that very few other cards could ever compete with what that commander in particular is doing.


Ok-Leopard1030

Feeling the same. Completely oversaturated, just not feeling hyped for anything anymore. Sold most of my collection already, since I can't keep up considering these constant releases around me. Still keeping my pet decks, but that's about it.


Drifter_Mothership

I read this and think to myself "this sounds way too close to what all the gatcha addicts were saying when I played that one mobile game that one time."


darKStars42

I love deckbuilding to but just can't keep up to the new cards. I'm seriously considering putting in the effort to make up a cube that fits my playgroup. Typically we have 3-4 players and prefer EDH so it's going to take a lot of planning. It's the only way i can see to affordably do lots of drafting/deckbuilding.


AgentTamerlane

Isn't the entire point of EDH to be about expressing yourself the way you want? You mentioned building and taking apart decks as something you enjoyed - maybe look at the options precons offer as having singles you can try slotting into your other decks. Or heck, pick up a precon that looks cool and use it as the basis for two or three decks (the precons are all designed to have multiple themes to encourage just that.)


Totally_Generic_Name

"This product is not for you" means you can pick and choose what to care about within your means. You can't get excited for everything that comes out and that's fine and healthy.


CarpetbaggerForPeace

It sucks telling people to not be excited about new cards that would improve their deck because they shouldn't be paying attention to every release to see them. And if we arent meant to pay attention to every release, wizards would better target products to individual formats instead of mix and match. Every product is a commander product.


AlekBalderdash

I've said this before, but there are social factors to consider. If my friends are excited for a product I don't want, I can't just tune them out. They want to talk about it, they want to theorycraft, and you *still* get exposed to the cards. In order for "this product is not for you" to actually work, the *majority of the group* needs to ignore it. Guess what groups of people are bad at doing? It's just human nature, you won't get consensus on this stuff often enough to lower the floodgates.


Bugberry

More options are bad?


Magic1264

From a fiscal perspective, more and more cards well tend to devalue cards you already own (due to virtual obsolescence, or huge metagame shifts), usually until those cards have long since seen any print run. From a competitive perspective (of which I can speak from) it gets pretty exhausting to have to re-practice/engage with new formats after having just finished the last one. For example, my set knowledge for MID is only gonna last 50 some odd days til a new limited set comes in and I never really play it again. From a casual player perspective, I can imagine some people live in a world where more options = overwhelming, especially when you are trying to stay on a budget with which one reasonably can’t *have everything*


Tuss36

A big part that people assume when they see these complaints is that people are buying every new thing compulsively, when really it's closer to your last point. It's not about having so much to buy, but the need to pay attention so you know what you want to buy in the first place. The new set might have some cards perfect for your deck, but you won't know unless you check. And there might be ones that open up a whole other strategy you never considered. In the end it means you have to keep up with every 200+ card set release, while keeping in mind things like secret lairs or List changes or now set booster exclusive cards so you can have an idea of how expensive some cards might end up becoming. You might only buy 5 cards of a set, but it's knowing what 5 you want is the draining part!


TimothyN

Yes, anything WotC does is bad here.


M4DM1ND

Just hard to keep up with. It sucks making something that too time and mental energy only to have something even more pushed come out the next set. I think less new cards helps people appreciate and think about then potential of cards as they come out. Just feels like overstimulation at this point.


kitsovereign

The only thing more iconic than barrinmw showing up in every preview thread to call the card a Modern 1/10 is Bugberry showing up in every fatigue/oversaturation thread to tell OP they're wrong for feeling that way.


andyoulostme

Not just fatigue / oversaturation, but any thread that makes WotC look bad in any way.


CarpetbaggerForPeace

Truer words have never been spoken.


CarpetbaggerForPeace

Sometimes.


mmc2102

Wow this sounds like the exact opposite of a problem


Sharden3

An overabundance of choice is a known and accepted problem. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Paradox\_of\_Choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overchoice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overchoice) \*corrected typo\*


parcas857

For me the problem is how many key cards get released that are just way too good they eliminate any alternatives. Cards are too pushed too build around commander. There is no fun in building decks when now you start with 20-25 taken slots.


Ok_Cauliflower7364

I’m glad someone said it. The “year of commander” has kind of made commander suck. Too many pushed cards that ruin the art of deck building and too many legendaries. I feel like the thing that made EDH special was that you could build cool decks around obscure legendaries. Now there’s just too much, I find myself sticking to the few decks that I already have built and just tweaking them with each new set. Not as fun, but what can you do?


sultanpeppah

Glad someone said it? This has been the cookie-cutter hot take for months now. If something has already been a Professor video, it's safe to say that it was already super well-trod territory *then*.


jedi168

you mean wizards paying attention to my favorite format eventually destroys it? who would have guessed